J.S. Bach Showdown 🎻 ft. Hilary Hahn, Rachel Podger, Heifetz & Milstein

[@RayChenViolinist]

Who’s your favorite Bach player? Btw make sure you join the Bach Practice Challenge on Tonic: tonicmusic.app/practice-together and win some FREE prizes!! Woohoo!

[@TwoSetViolinEdits]

Hilary Hahn!

[@kai1884]

You

[@celli_ec._.]

Ray Chen or Hilary Hahn

[@jervilopez1844]

In baroque playing, they vibrate but very little.

[@Bobeeha]

sigiswald kuijken

[@Ember_Prime]

Something about how Hilary Hahn plays Bach is just so powerful but delicate at the same time. She’s just all around an incredible violinist!

[@gerriedegeitenmelker4278]

Where can we watch the whole performance though? Can’t find the video Ray uses on yt :(

[@alexandreboyenval3140]

Recording a perfect Chacconne at âge of 17… just incredible.

[@prijicrw]

​@@gerriedegeitenmelker4278

[@flatmars7072]

Flashback to "Who's Rachel Podger??"- Ray, good to see he's learned from his mistakes xD

[@zainab58]

I admire the way Ray incorporated the clip himself, rather than let some wiseass in the Comments point it out 🙂

[@flatmars7072]

​@@zainab58dang bro my bad didn't know I wasn't allowed to make a lighthearted joke, it's almost like people sometimes comment before finishing the video 😊

[@lightinfantrybugler]

I remember 😂

[@zainab58]

@@flatmars7072 I can only say that you have somehow entirely misinterpreted my comment.

[@LJTTYT]

I remember the twoset video

[@yush4673]

Hilary Hahns bow control is unmatched imo. No wasted movements, no wavering in the sound. Its like a gymnast doing a slow handstand pushup (this analogy works in my head), something so difficult to do without showing some sort of weakness but she just executes it in a controlled matter like she was born to do this.

[@Y3llow_Submarin3]

Yes, watch her practise clip, so much to learn

[@user-ur4nl6dq2x]

I love how Ray and Twoset so openly fanboi over Hillary's playing. No ego, just "SHE IS WOW" and it's nice 😊

[@benfox6292]

it's weird that when you hear hilary playing it's like on a whole other level. hard to describe but it's so so good.

[@susanbryant6516]

I love HH’s performances of Bach pieces. I think that’s because I feel that she loves them (She has said she plays bach nearly everyday as part of her practice) and has thought a lot about what should come through, and how. I also respect what Rachel Podger is doing and enjoy listening to her version. And of course, Ray, when you perform this more thoughtful, less flashy music as an encore, it brings another aspect of your playing to us, the audience

[@hlarjay7503]

You finally put the perfect word to how I feel about Hilary's playing; existential. She pours so much power into the notes she wants to, to the point that when youre listening to it, it feels like nothing else matters. She puts her entire life and experience into a single chord and deafens you with it. Its awe inspiring. Love content Ray, keep it up!

[@yusha5728]

I'm just an amateur listener of classical music but its precisely because of that "eternal note of sadness" which is why I love Hahn's Bach. There is an undercurrent of pain that is *chef's kiss*

[@gabrelconner9146]

Can anyone even compare to Hahn?!!! Just wow…..🤯 ❤ Transcendent. Her phrasing never ceases to just blow my mind. She’s a gem really wow.

[@leechaerin2any1]

Hilary sounds like more than 1 violin, it’s so effortless. Her movements and control it’s streamlined beautifully. I can’t tell when she is or how she is moving the bow is what I mean. It’s captivating she makes me want to listen to classical music I randomly found her one day on Spotify listening to pride and prejudice soundtrack she was recommended so glad I did!

[@avr-d4t]

I love how he's all compliments with Hilary, but when podger,hes just explaining baroque things, and with heifetz he's just amazed

[@Canto28]

Hilary additionally is very easy on the eyes!

[@MrEL28]

My all time favorite is Henryk Szeryng's 1968 recording on Deutsche Grammophon.

[@brozors]

My favorite Bach player is Henryk Szerying. The all time favorite Bach performance I’ve ever heard is the playing of the 2nd sonata by Philippe Hirschhorn at the Queen Elisabeth competition. Blows me away every time I hear it.

[@arlin411]

I’m with you on Szeryng.

[@EvanKaplanPianist]

Yeah Szeryng’s Bach is far better than Heifetz or Milstein for me

[@feb5th]

Hilary's Bach always gives me goosebumps no matter how many times i hear it. She's so amazing

[@grace6300]

I was JUST listening to that exact Hilary Hahn recording and when Ray talked about the feeling she evokes, I was like EXACTLY OMG I FELT THAT EXACT THING

[@gimletrose1985]

Hilary's Bach is just another world! I also love Nemanja's Bach. They both makes me feel things ❤

[@lad4694]

Man... Hilary Hahn is just phenomenal

[@joejoejoe532]

I like the part about informed decision in terms of interpreting Bach. I'm a flutist, but my primarily artistic profession is painting. For example, we learn to draw human anatomy not because every human figure we create has to be anatomically accurate. We learn accurate human anatomy so that we choose to go off the rails, exaggerate, or change, it's not because we are ignorant. It's because we know what rules we are breaking and why.

[@sansangaga8560]

I’m just in love with Heifetz version of this piece. Exactly those first notes, hanging in the air, it strikes me. All the drama, the suffering hit instantly. We are hung until the end in between spaces. I also like your interpretation, which is much rounder than Heifetz’. But for me only Heifetz’ interpretation delivers that level of drama and thinking of the existence from this piece. Thank you for sharing your professional comments on some interpretations of Bach.

[@Highlander515]

The piece that the artists performed is Adagio from Sonata No. 1 for Solo Violin by J.S. Bach, in case someone wants to search for the full videos.

[@monalisamackey783]

My favourite violinist of all time is David Oistrakh…hands down. His playing was full of emotion and warmth 🙂🙌🏻

[@marcvilleneuve1889]

Grumiaux played Bach very well in the Concert Hall...James Ehnes is a great Bach interpret...live or on recordings. Ehnes understanding of the polyphonic effect wished by the composer is unmatched. His bow chord technic is absolutely amazing.

[@ravithangiralaviolin1201]

Welcome Bach to another video!

[@Phymacss]

Y E S

[@wiltonpt1]

You got it! HH brings out the soulfulness of JSB like unheard before.

[@yimuxiao8941]

Isabelle Faust’s Bach albums are the best ever recorded. The performance is not just historically informed but imaginative, absolutely enjoyable and just imbued with great aesthetics. The level of details and control in her bowing is absolutely insane

[@HappyG1lm0re]

I love videos like these, Ray sharing an expert opinion on a piece or violinists interpretations of them. I can watch these all day.

[@medbeth9857]

Milstein has been my go-to whenever I listen to Bach. Ever since I heard his Chaconne (and the entirety of partita n02), something within me just clicked. It might be outdated or not the most "historically accurate" way of playing but his dramatic, embellished and deeply sentimental interpretation is what makes Partita n02 complete, in my opinion.

[@hansmahr8627]

In the end, who cares for historical accuracy. It's all about how a performance affects you and that's not dependent on a particular approach to accuracy. Personally, I can't stand the snobbery and arrogance of some of the people who advocate for historically informed performances as if it was somehow immoral to play Bach with vibrato. Never mind the fact that even in Baroque times, people likely used way more vibrato than so-called historically informed performers nowadays. The evidence for performance styles in those days is way less conclusive than some people claim. In fact there are some books by violin teachers back then who advocate for a constant slight vibrato because the violin is supposed to emulate the human singing voice which has a natural vibrato. Ultimately, it's a matter of taste. I like some of the more moderate historically informed performances and I appreciate hearing the sound of the old instruments and playing techniques. But to me at least, hearing violinists play music without any vibrato at all is a bit ridiculous. Why get rid of an excellent expressive tool? And it gets even more ridiculous when you listen to Roger Norrington's recordings of Mahler (!) without vibrato because Norrington believes that vibrato was invented in 1920 which is just insane.

[@josephzepeda7608]

Cool video. I heard HH play an all Bach concert this spring and it was completely amazing, and I was surprised at how Romantic some decisions were, as compared to her early Bach recordings. Also, I want to hear more Milstein and hear Ray break it down. That opening was fabulous.

[@BaggerVance]

Totally agree with you: Learn all style; choose your personal! I love old school performances and Hillary Hann over all ❤️

[@dougdumbrill7234]

As a listener I enjoyed them all and enjoyed learning about what the differences mean and how they come about. I have to say however that, more than anyone, Hilary Hahn makes me understand all the awe around Bach’s solo music. When I listen to her, I get it!😳

[@rockflame7876]

Maybe Ray can do the Episode 2, I believe many people would also like to hear you explain the performances of different violinists such as Midori Goto❤

[@richardwhitehouse8762]

I always like Grumiaux in Bach. Old school for sure but French/Belgian rather than Russian. And recently I found Ruth Waterman, who I like a lot. And I do like your's too, Ray. There's a youtube clip you put up a few years ago of the Sarabande from the D minor Partita. I listened to it a lot at the time because it spoke to me (and still does). In the end that's the marvel of music. Some days it's Mihalia Jackson, other days it's John Coltrane alongside Richter playing Schubert, Angela Hewitt playing Bach or Heinz Holliger playing anything. Thank you for sharing.

[@anneharrison1849]

I joined the app this morning and thus decided I’d better practice some Bach. The problem is, I had wrist surgery 18 months ago, I’m a recorder player, I’ve played various things, but the one thing I really haven’t got back is the little finger and half holing the ring finger on an alto. The main Bach repertory for recorder is Partita BW1013 transposed to C minor, exactly where I need to finish my rehab, I put in about 20 minutes earlier, and boy does my whole forearm hurt now! I might need to switch to practicing cello suites on my great bass, no half holing required as it’s all key work, but hopefully still contributes to strengthening.

[@MattinSapmi]

Hilary Hahn is just incredible. I adore her Bach ❤️

[@recurvearcher6542]

Hi Ray , thank you. We are witnessing perhaps what Bach intended, regardless of development in instrument technology and musicians own interpretation , he wrote in such a way incouraging and embracing this. In his life he witnessed technology changes not only in music but everday mechanical devices. Therefore we are fortunate to now enjoy his work on many different levels. Great posts

[@trevorpinnocky]

I listened to Milstein’s recording of these pieces for years. I used his style as a model since it falls between romantic and baroque technique. He also has more restrained use of vibrato.

[@jessicawong3081]

When Ray said "The next one we are going to check out is Rachel Podger", I was like, good job Ray, you have learned from your mistakes.

[@peggysmith-p5u]

This is my favorite video you have ever posted! Excellent examples and so informative as to historical practices guiding musical interpretation today. I really like Hilary Hahn's versions the best.

[@WKC-sc9jt]

This is a very interesting, knowledgeable and also educational short clip featuring and comparing between a few different playing approaches on Bach's solo violin sonata ( BWV1001, in g minor ). Mr Ray Chen imitates the ways and the tones those legendary violinists used to play vividly and wonderfully. Just keep up the good work. It has been so nice.

[@mylesyiu6188]

That cough after Hilary’s encore 💀

[@AMMandrea123]

In 1976 I was studying at the Hochschule für Musik und darstellende Kunst in Vienna, we were treated to an amazing Bach concert on Baroque instruments in the courtyard of a monastery. At twilight, a flock of birds spun off into the Night Sky and i told my teacher that I felt as if I had gone back in time and heard a baroque concert. He turned and told me I couldn’t hear what they heard because I didn’t have their ears. it took me a minute to understand what he was saying, but then I had to agree. My mind had heard so many so much more music than a patron of Bach, the music could not possibly have sounded the same.

[@radjedi2010]

This was awesome content, great job Ray! Really enjoyed the entire video. It helps deepen my appreciation of music, Bach and top notch artists. I loved the descriptions of technique and comparisons between artists and between old school/new school styles.

[@koopalovetoast2409]

Hadelich is right in the middle of old school and baroque style playing. Love his bach. But I am also quite the fanboy.

[@trippingorc]

I get to see Ray in January and Hillary in June

[@KT-yr2yo]

Du bist nicht zufällig in Mannheim im Januar? Da darf auch ich Ray erleben😊.

[@spacejackson1612]

It will be interesting to do a part two with Bach chaconne!! There’re so much intense thing in there😆

[@briankuhl9314]

Loved hearing Ray talk about Hillary in historical context. Really helps me understand both of 'em better.

[@neilford99]

I had some lessons from a baroque violin teacher. The lessons were a real eye-opener in so many respects especially bowing and integral to that, phrasing. Highly recommend seeking out a teacher who specialises in baroque repertoire.

[@paucajtro]

In Bolivia we have a very special Baroque Festival, so I grew up hearing the New School technique, so I definitely feel more "at home" with Rachel Podger interpretation, it's like I hear it and immediately think Bach and Baroque. I find it very interesting how things like a Festival can influence so much our appreciation of music just by the exposure we have from very young age to this.

[@shahx1010]

exposure instead of exposition?

[@paucajtro]

@@shahx1010 you're right, exposure. thanks!!!

[@1389Chopin]

Great vid - as a pianist ive grown to appreciate the variation of technique in violin playing and its impact to sound

[@disthymia6929]

Hillary Hahn has been so impressive lately (the past 2~3 years) I liked her sound in the 90s/when she was pretty young, but admittedly didn't like her as much past that. However, recently, she has combined the technical prowess she has been known for with the emotional sound she had when she was younger and has ascended to another level.

[@isabelsnow3697]

Also +1 vote for more of this type of content pretty please

[@Jay_Bacal]

Love your comparison vids. Please do a lot more!!

[@maksimsinitskiy3676]

Ray, thank you for your videos! It’s inspiring! I’ll go practice Bach right now.

[@CrossingWolfi]

In this specific instance, Rachel Podgers playing made the most musical sense to me, finally I understand those oddly heavy chords in the Chaconne. But Hillary’s resonant sound is just to die for, how does she achieve it?!

[@Eyiba07]

Hilary Hahn is definitely my favourite. Her sound is so rich & full. Milstein comes second for me.

[@MS-nj1fq]

Give us more Bach listening (especially HH!)!

[@adamdonovan5633]

Great content! Love the head-to-head comparison, AND your careful answer to the question of 'personal interp'. Yes AND No. Milstein phrasing: NICE. Podger: too much Rachel. HAHN: the most "satisfying' of these 4: lyrical, not maudlin, balanced choices, introspective. Thanks for this kind of material. More comparisons with other Bach players.

[@antonvf9619]

this is the best of your videos so far (the "serious" ones I mean) I've learned a ton and I wish you will make more videos like this that help us listen and play differently. wonderful video! amazing! ❤❤❤❤

[@sasssssa6565]

What I learned in baroque class is to use vibrato !! Telemann and others said longer notes should have vibrato. But it's mostly on the end of the notes, with a certain speed and not too wide and not on every note!

[@dr.a.w]

I have a copy of the treatise on keyboard playing by C. P. E. Bach and he laments the inability of keyboard instruments to do vibrato like singers and string players. Of course, we all know who his teacher was. Since I read that, I have felt like the quantitative elimination of all traces of vibrato in baroque and earlier performance is misguided...

[@margaretheqiaowang5610]

So many people heap praises over HH, and I don't get the hype, especially over Bach. She's technically phenomenal, but her interpretation of Bach always seems over the top. I'm probably biased for Heifetz, but the man remains the gold standard for me.

[@daphnebeloved]

Só agreed with you!

[@map-reduce]

This is a really interesting video, but I have to admit, I'm a little disappointed we didn't get YOUR interpretation :)

[@nubbyrose87]

The non-decorated notes set the stage for decorated notes that have greater impact. I like the romantic/old school.

[@valtergilenardi2639]

La Musica Terapeutica di Bach mi ha aiutato a sconfiggere la mia Depressione. Saluti da Lecce South Italy ❤

[@uliwidmaier5192]

I so would love to hear your take on Milstein. I recommend you devote an entire video to his Bach. He's such an unusual figure. Raised in the grand Romantic tradition, he nevertheless cultivated a Bach that sometimes (the more so the older he gets) anticipates the modern Baroque approach. A few selections - the Double to the B Minor Sarabande, for instance - are radically un-romantic, vibrato-free, pure, structural, linear, downright modest, the antithesis of Heifetz (as you note in this video but do not elaborate). And he does all this from pure instinct, and quite evidently without any attempt whatsoever to play in a historically informed way. I would especially love to hear your thoughts on his bow technique (smoother than anyone's ever, yet produced with a near-inflexible right hand) and - most of all - his strange intonation, which you also briefly comment on here. His intonation is clearly under his total control, but he makes striking and unusual decisions about it which are supported by deep musical intent. What do you make of it all?

[@hildegerdhaugen7864]

Heifetz brought it all up to a level nobody could follow thereafter.

[@Highlander515]

They all sounded great to my ears 🙂

[@frankgustafson1905]

Love the video Ray. They are all amazing violinist. Your explanations on their styles was very informative. Thanks for sharing.

[@sophielee570]

thank you Ray, love the showdown series, they inform me a lot!!

[@Iaido_Tests]

Fun fact: Joseph Joachim and Andreas Moser brought out an edition of the Bach solo violin pieces. Ich think it was 1909 after Joachim's dead. And there Joachim tried to write down in a baroque playing style with modern notation methods. It's really interesting and worth having a look at it.

[@gailrodgers4434]

I play piano, not violin, but come across the same issues regarding interpretation (pedal, no pedal, etc.) Your observations were very helpful. I think, like you, I'm somewhere in the middle. Maybe sometime you could address today's Baroque music playing, which seems like everyone has a train to catch, The tempi are so fast these days, I can hardly hear the music.

[@MrInterestingthings]

This was wonderful! I wish when I was younger someone would have pointed out how to listen to phraseology and contrasts. How things mean something. I would have paid more attention to making music and less to moving my fingers.Hahn is a fellow creator that's why his critique is different.Podger is courage ous playing contemporary composers etc.

[@Dilsli]

Wonderful video! Please, make more videos like this, discussing different ways of playing pieces and composers.🎉

[@AndySaenz]

He’s a professional violinist so I wish he would also play through this piece and then classify his own style versus how everyone else did it.

[@ModusVivendiMedia]

Rachel Podger recently won "Album of the Year" from BBC Classical Music magazine for her solo Bach recording. Aside from the inventively-arranged Toccata and Fugue in D Minor that opens the album, I found it startlingly boring. Hilary Hahn's video here must be an encore from the same concert as her shockingly-good Prokofiev VC #1 with hr-Sinfonieorchester, which I like better than the album version with ORF. (Is she the only violinist who actually plays the sul ponticello passages in the Prokofiev 2nd movement sul ponticello? It's so spooky sounding. The range of tone qualities she gets is amazing.) I, too, prefer Milstein's approach to Heifetz's.

[@dees3179]

I’m a historically informed performance junkie, so I’ll confess a natural bias here towards baroque at the outset. But I’ll offer the opinion that baroque equipment sounds better in person to a greater degree than classical equipment.

[@dees3179]

Not sure why KZbin won’t let me edit my own post, …. I’m keep trying to add: I think classical equipment comes across more easily in recordings. The excitement of baroque equipment needs really careful sound engineering to come across, but you can be lazier with the classical. So the earlier set up instruments are at a disadvantage.

[@SNathalie9]

Спасибо! Как раз сейчас разбираю😊❤

[@PositivelyNice]

Really love your commentary. Educational.

[@christianbell4482]

Ray and Daishin Kashimoto. By the way, I am not sure the Barockish interpretations of Bach reflect necessarily his own sense of music. He was an organist, so he may have had a very ephemeral and very beautiful sound quality in mind when he wrote the solo pieces. Out of the selection, Hilary Hahn is my favourite for the reasons mentioned above. It’s simply amazing!!

[@sabrinai]

Can't wait for this vid!

[@thevector384]

I absolutely love your reaction videos,keep going ✌️💜

[@markchen5710]

i really love james ehnes' recording of this

[@halneufmille]

Playing double stops isn't so difficult. Playing them in tune, for a sustained moment, with even weight and in a pleasant way is so devilishly hard. Hilary Hahn's are just divine and going on forever.

[@Ream44]

Absolutely loved your video today. On your poll, I wasn't completely sure of your designations. Of course, I don't have a very strong knowledge of violin technique. I come at this from more of a music history point of view. Thanks for introducing me to Rachel Podger, and I wanted to say that I was beyond impressed by Hilary Hahn's performance.

[@chipthequinn]

Something that Milstein shines at that is impossible to cover here is large-scale structure. The big fugues and the Chaconne can run on and on. Milstein gives them architectural form and keeps me (for example) from falling into a daze.

[@karenrobert7200]

This was such a helpful video! There is so much to learn about how to approach playing Bach. I hope to apply these different techniques during my practice! Thanks so much, Ray! I have to check out Tonic…..

[@zemresende]

Could we please stop stating for once that baroque informed way of playing does NOT mean no vibrato??? So many documents we have access to that say there IS vibrato in baroque music, it simply works as an ORNAMENTATION, meaning you can’t just overdo it, and we are still with this more than outdated completely mistaken mentality that baroque means no vibrato..

[@jarodvmusic]

Great content. Hey it would be great if you did a longer review of playing that $340 violin on your last video. I was really surprised with the sound quality for the price.

[@alexeiheintz7350]

No talk about Bach is possible without refering to Szering. He created a golden standard.

[@bryanpark8098]

I'm definitely on the historically informed/performance practice side. I love Rachel Podger and Sigiswald Kuijken.

[@kevinlowen2648]

I do not really have knowledge about classical music and I am also not musically trained but for some reason I always get goosbumps when Hilary Hahn is playing.

[@comangeorge7622]

You should definetly listen to George Enescu’s recording of Bach!! It’s worth listening to!

[@genehuangviolin]

Love this series. Please do a Bach Chaconne showdown!

[@TheCreate78]

Hello Ray! You should definitely check out the recordings of Shunske Sato!

[@M_SC]

I want to like them but I don’t

[@paucajtro]

Hillary's performance is beautiful but I was so very distracted with her dress. Like I want it, now, please. ✨ Hilary fashion icon for us classic musicians ✨

[@dmwalker24]

Personally, I don't care as much about historical accuracy as I do about how well the player conveys the spirit of Bach's music that's in and around all those notes. So it probably comes as no surprise that Hilary is my favorite Bach interpreter ever. I'm also quite fond of Glen Gould (which may agitate some purists). Both Hahn, and Gould show the same amazing sense of phrasing, pulse, and counter-point.

[@larrypholbrook]

Thank you Ray Chen! I like vibrato. Always feels like instruments can use a ton of it without destroying the piece. Whereas vocals can come across as a look what I can do

[@swingeasyguy]

My preference is Milstein and Heifetz for the Bach. Ray you're sounding like my old golf coach who made me think too much!!!

[@daphnebeloved]

Mine as Well!

[@duggiefresh8170]

Szeryng's Bach is second to none!

[@claudiocanonica4842]

I like so much to listen to your ideas. Could you analyze baroque violinist? That would be great. Thank you for all!

[@박지윤-b3j]

Thanks Ray, I really love your videos and this one as well! I didn’t know much about violin or classical music in general but your videos really help me to develop my preferences and understand the classical music world 😊