Reacting to Asmongold's React Of My Video (again) | J1mmy Reacts

Original Video by me: kzbin.info/www/bejne/h5W7iqudrbJqndk
Act Man’s video on react streamers that align with my feelings on the whole thing: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n3qZdnaBad2pl8ksi=oNKkBePcoBSeTEye
Today, we watch Asmongold not understand Old School Runescape for an hour, pointing it out every time. This is a J1mmy react to an Asmongold React, one of the oldest forms of media on the KZbin platform. 365 days a year, people anxiously refresh the J1mbo page in hopes of a new J1mmy reacting to Asmon's React pops up. Every time one of these videos is published, an audience only comparable to the Super Bowl tune in and absorb the layers of original content on display. This... is one of those.

[@JoshStrifeSays]

money glitch

[@J1mmy]

well said Visa

[@LehtiMarssi]

So when josh is gonna get mixed up In this? I think we need it. 😂

[@Reco-Sco]

Josh on Gielinor Games when? 😏

[@pmarnoze8321]

I’m fully here for this

[@Zutang777]

Josh! Go ahead. Take a slice 😉

[@marisasob]

If nostalgia was important to OSRS, castle wars wouldn't be dead.

[@sr1488]

this is actually an insanely good argument lol

[@MeanBeanComedy]

You guys need a spotlight thing. In RS3, castle wars is popping once a month or so.

[@antoniolum1506]

Holy shet, lmao now that's nostalgia... Melting in rune armour piling the lvl 126 in full Ahrim's turning everyone into fridges whilst we just stood their unable to do anything 😂

[@itzchmitty9351]

OR FIST OF GUTHIX!

[@andrewcurran2133]

Castle wars was the reason I begged for membership as a kid only to finally get there and get absolutely fucked on over and over. 10/10 experience

[@coryluttrell1522]

the "ask WOW players, they're right here" line hit just as hard the second time

[@kokey5735]

amen

[@SuperMegaKappa]

Saying OSRS's success is primarily driven by nostalgia is like saying Baldur's Gate 3's success is driven by DND nostalgia.

[@sr1488]

Yup. Sometimes the core gameplay of something is good, and people like good games that offer endless improvement. Chess isnt alive now because its old. Same with all major sports or games. It's the same argument people give about super smash bros melee, nobody plays a game for thousands of hours into their late 20s because they played it as a kid. You know how many games I played as a kid that I go and revisit for an hour every few years and that's it?

[@FulMetallalchemist]

Thats an amazing point

[@qwertyuiopzxcfgh]

I think the main thing Asmon doesn't understand is that OSRS nowadays is nothing like rs was back in 2007. Based on number of updates, OSRS is currently further from 2007scape than rs was when EOC released.

[@iRyan-Bonclay]

Bro this is unhinged

[@alexdgod1106]

i cant wait for the react of the react that was a react to a video that was a reponse to a react reacting to a react.

[@jasonh8592]

MOAR

[@jasonh8592]

MOAAAAAARRRRRR!!

[@FriendlyBanditZ]

@@jasonh8592 chill jason, there surely will be

[@daltonroberts7312]

Wrong, this is merely the KZbin content meta

[@GooTheMighty]

41:00 I think I see the problem. He’s treating Nostalgia like it is a genre, not an emotion.

[@only1322]

Yeah he thinks people literally play golden eye for more than 30 mins nostalgia lasts

[@ultratronger]

@@mrbubbles6468 No dude, OSRS just proves that gamers want good games. I never played MMOs back then, I was a little baby, I started playing OSRS in 2018 and got hooked on how insanely well designed and addicting and rewarding it is, unlike other games. Nostalgia cannot be a factor if you never played back then. Hypixel Skyblock is a gamemode within a Server within Minecraft, and the style of MMO it is is pretty similar to OSRS, and it gets tens of thousands of players because of it, peaking at over 200k. PEOPLE SIMPLY LIKE GOOD GAMES.

[@EpicPumaNess1]

FUCK! You're totally right! I've been trying to place why his argument infuriates me so much, and that's it! You're brilliant.

[@richardsmith6833]

He’s… just not very smart is he. His reasoning just folds back in on itself the longer he speaks, but he doubles down so strongly he just doesn’t see it.

[@sedericknguyen5075]

At one point there was 3 jimmys and 2 asmons on the screen if this goes any futher its just gon be a screen filled with jimmy and asmons

[@TheT8or]

This is the content im here for

[@tylerblackburn3760]

In 3 more recursion get the act man to react man to it

[@ryanzimmerman3583]

I think something interesting to consider is although they are using the same word "success" I think they are arguing for two different things. Asmongold is saying Runescape's (short-term) success is from nostalgia, and while I don't think that's the only factor, I would say nostalgia does play a large part for a decently large part of the player base as the "foot in the door" for it. J1mmy is saying Runescape's (long-term) success is from all of the game updates and unique content created by everyone in the community, and in that aspect, nostalgia is almost non-existent as a factor, which I 100% agree with. Getting people to check it out vs. Getting people to play it for a lengthy period of time. Both are different measures for success and while I mostly agree with J1mmy's take that OSRS' long-standing and increasing success is not due to nostalgia, I do think Asmongold has a point that nostalgia did get a lot of people to check out the game only to find it is so much more than they remember it being.

[@chukles3430]

Yeah this is the real take right here; well said.

[@rogerwidmark1730]

There's definitely a degree of semantics happening here, but I sadly don't think it was mutually understood. J1mmy addressed both the short-term/long-term arguments for Runescape's success throughout the video, summarized best here: 33:04 - 33:52. Granted, that wasn't part of the original video Asmon watched, but what is and what conveys the same information visually is the graphs J1mmy bothered to put together, from: 24:09 - 24:36. Asmon was very fixated on the idea of nostalgia not only being the reason people returned to these retro versions of MMOs, but also the reason people continued playing them after the initial "honeymoon phase". He basically says this verbatim when responding to a chatter who brings up the same point at 41:23. He also keeps insisting that nostalgia is "the biggest factor for success" without showing any work for why he thinks that's the case, so even on its own merits, it's not a good argument. All that said, I have to agree with J1mmy here. Nostalgia isn't a constant. There are plenty of examples of things we look back on fondly that have not stood the test of time. The reason OSRS is still around and is doing as good as it ever has is because of the ways it's changed and come into its own identity, largely due to a very dedicated content creation community and development team. edit: timestamps

[@SnareGG]

>comes up with serveral hypothetical arguements "i dont really like arguing with people with like theoricals" his brain is basically turned off when he is streaming

[@chevrsk678]

im pretty sure thats just how his brain works in general tbh

[@potatoreaper]

a whole hour of jimmy saying "NO ITS NOT!" and I ate it up like mom's spaghetti.

[@perplexedcats7687]

Palms are sweaty...

[@iiWicked]

There wasn't much else to say tbh. All Asmon ever does is repeat the same thing without actually arguing anything. Go back and count how many different ways he says "nostalgia is a major contributing factor" without actually giving a reason. He doesn't even play the game. Dude is overdosing on crazy pills.

[@yensive826]

this is the best comment...ever.

[@ThisisCitrus]

@@iiWicked Lets be real, Jimmy couldnt defend his point either, thats why all he said for an hour was "no its not"

[@iiWicked]

@@ThisisCitrus He gave plenty of reasons in this response and in the original video. How is he supposed to respond when Asmon isn't making a point? Asmon is stating an uninformed opinion as fact and looks to his echo chamber of a chat for assurance. Please give me a couple timestamps of examples where Asmon made a non-repeated compelling argument and Jimmy either ignored it or just said "No". His one argument is that the game is old and people only play old things because of nostalgia. While that's probably true for most short lived remakes or rereleases, OSRS is a completely different monster than when it came out 11 years ago, but it's still familiar. The reason people wanted OSRS in the first place is because Jagex didn't listen to its community and made RS3 so unfamiliar that people didn't enjoy it anymore. Jimmy even made the point in the video that most people just hated EOC. OSRS came out 3 MONTHS after EOC was implemented. Nostalgia EXISTS for old-school runescape. That can't be (and isn't) argued against by anyone. It's simply not a major factor to the game's continued success. The 11 years of additional content is why the game goes on and continues bringing people back.

[@legendary-member]

Asmon seems to be misplacing nostalgia, for familiarity. Which are two very different things.

[@Sephiroso.]

He simply doesn't understand the definition of the word is all. He completely skipped over the sentimental part of the definition. That's a core component of what it means.

[@LJGator808]

This. This.

[@LJGator808]

I was familiar with it, and when Osrs came out, I picked up where I was forcibly left off. Nostalgia played no part.

[@Beefytiing]

bro lives in a bit of an echochamber nowadays, he's content in life and provides good content but he's often wrong when speaking about games. Which is ironic considering how he came up lol

[@lightingninja1425]

That’s actually a brilliant take

[@GooTheMighty]

37:19 I’ll say it again, I started playing OSRS on my phone, in my twenties, having never TOUCHED any version of it before that, and I am still playing as a thirty year old, two whole jobs later. Nostalgia has NEVER had ANYTHING to do with my time in this game. It’s just a good game.

[@blank2.0]

Same, I started with no prior experience (except for a few youtube videos) with OSRS until the mobile release. Plus, I believe that I'm quite young compared to the average audience of OSRS, so I don't think nostalgia has a huge factor on what keeps a game ALIVE. It's purely the nature of its game design and fundamental enjoyment factor that keeps players coming back.

[@dhidebody]

Glad you guys are enjoying osrs. I like hearing that new players do join our community and enjoy this great game 😢

[@blank2.0]

@@dhidebody Thanks! Nowadays I'm basically in mid-game hell, grinding out corrupted gauntlet for bowfa or bossing for cash. I have fond memories of me mining at the east Varrock mine and smelting weapons to selling to the weapons shop. I didn't want to use the GE for whatever reason, but because of that I felt really proud of my first 10k stack (that I actually earned). I also remember how thankful I felt that someone gave me 50k just for being a new mobile player, f2p worlds were so crazy during those times. I basically have nostalgia for OSRS, rather than RS2, strange how things work out.

[@Pensnmusic]

Yooo another 30 year old man playing the same game whoop whoop

[@nekokinds]

same here, except i'm 23 and started playing when i was 20. never touched the game once as a kid, i'm not even sure if i knew it existed because i only played nintendo games lol

[@fknjacked3940]

The casual part is a massive deal, as a person that has played both games since release, i dont have the time anymore to be locked to my chair 4-5 hours at a time playing WoW anymore, which means i cant accomplish anything ever. Runescape allows me to slowly work towards goals in my own time 12 hours a day 5 days a week CASUALLY

[@musicmanxii]

It's funny the duality of runescape. You have dudes playing this game during downtime at work, and then you have people who dedicate their lives to it lol

[@occiderisaethiopissa3702]

The point about MOCAP for an MMO and having FF14 on screen while talking about it, is such a good example of why Asmon is wrong and doesn't know what he's talking about. For people who don't know, the 1.0 version of FF14 used Mocapped cutscenes, they looked amazing and it was a large part of what killed that version of the game because of the amount of money/ resources it cost to produce along with how time intensive they are. The current version of FF14 uses standardised emotes for a lot of it's cutscenes now and yes it's not as fancy but it's far more cost and time effective now those resources can be better put to use in the game, which has worked for FF14 given how popular it is.

[@richberrigan1087]

this is my new favorite j1mmy series

[@jacobwallace2920]

I can't wait for By Release to do DT2 tbh

[@only1322]

Farming asmon episode 4 😂

[@Sasbanonker]

Jimmy making a video for Asmongold to watch, and having him not listen to a single point is a true monkey's paw wish. Nostalgia brings us back. Good gameplay and consistent updates keep us around. I don't know why that's such a contentious point.

[@PlonsterOSRS]

100% that's a great way to put it. The nostalgia snapshot of the game did bring us all back, but as J1mmy pointed out the updates kept the engine burning and luckily the devs did a good enough job where it's grown to where it is today.

[@cmobro]

Because J1mmy's arguments aren't valid enough to change someone's opinion. Imagine if players that returned to OSRS because of nostalgia just moved on with other video games instead. That would be a pretty decent part of playerbase. Asmon didn't say people still play this game because of nostalgia, but it's a big factor, and you can't say it doesn't play a role into OSRS success. If OSRS was released today it would be a dead game in less than a month

[@estivalbloom]

It really shows how true so much of what j1mmy says is when asmond just assumes that new bosses are strictly for veteran players. Like he can't fathom that a boss could ever be early- to mid-game content

[@alanmoulet1362]

The rank 1 inferno , is called librain , hes a relative new player , started 2020 or a bit earlier my bro met him cutting log in f2p and 5 year later the dude has 1000 inferno kill , hes puerto rican , and the perfect exemple of a new player doing shit veteran cant

[@andrethyst905]

They even released a boss that's specifically for LOWER level players quite recently, t ohelp them learn bossing and train melee combat more easily.

[@trevsoda]

he can't think outside terms of WoW where new content = making old content irrelevant

[@fredmctictac2272]

I also noticed this. A wow player literally doesn't understand that a new boss isn't endgame lol

[@jacobparks1]

The WoW mind can’t fathom mid level content. Scurrius doesn’t exist. Moons of Peril doesn’t exist. Only inferno and Colo.

[@Jts124]

Azmon in a nutshell, "I'm right, i'll never admit I'm wrong. But you are right too."

[@kludd5007]

One of the reason i have a hard time with Asmon buuuuut he is a funny guy at times but like jimmy said sometimes he talks out of his ass and its driven by his viewers and it probably makes him full of himself at times ^^

[@aethon0563]

I always appreciate when someone who has never taken part in a certain community tries to make definitive judgements on that community. Peak asmon.

[@DazjaRoux]

It's funny how people who have barely or never played Runescape are so sure they understand what the game is and has to offer.

[@richardkim3652]

Nostalgia makes you come back but new updates and contents makes you stay in the game. So nostalgia was like 50% of the reason why old school players came back.

[@TheGuardianDevil4]

that's asmongold in a nutshell, spews an opinion about stuff he knows nothing about

[@ultratronger]

@@richardkim3652 Old school players "coming back" was less than 10k players. People play because it is a good game.

[@ultratronger]

@@mrbubbles6468 so if you go to a restaurant because it was recommended by a friend that means it's based on nostalgia? The name is OSRS because it's an older version of the game. When OSRS released that version of the game was 6 years old. OSRS is 11 years old now. And even then it only came to be because players wanted to de-update the then-current game, not because of nostalgia but because IT WAS A BETTER GAME. Nostalgia lasts like 1 hour max. Grab your favorite ps2 or ps1 games and you will probably drop them in that time, because that's nostalgia.

[@Pøssessïve-B]

this literally this i never played the game growing up and i feel like i missed out on peak i love osrs though been playing since 2020/2021

[@zoobooz8552]

I like nostalgia is like the match when starting a campfire. It was necessary for the start of the game, but if all you have is the match, you’re going to freeze

[@Jimbobbinson]

True and real

[@andrethyst905]

Key piece to that: It "WAS" necessary. It's not necessary anymore. It might help get some people to look at the game, but there are people who want to play because they've seen Swampletics, or Gielinor Games, or they have friends who talk about what the game actually plays like. OSRS is a pretty unique game in comparison to other games today. It doesn't appeal as much to younger generations because many games today that younger generations play are about quicker action, getting stuck in fast for a high-intensity experience with things like battle royales, or big scaling single sessions like a game of League. RuneScape is a slower burn game with slow progress, and that just doesn't mesh with the current younger generations. Not to say that younger people wouldn't ever play OSRS, but it's just not as attractive due to the style of play.

[@theparagonal]

​@@mrbubbles6468I am begging you to stop desperately trying to pretend AssMan is right about something, this is getting sad

[@t-yoonit]

This is incredibly accurate.

[@zoobooz8552]

@@andrethyst905 what an excellent way to put that

[@Tuloth]

Nostalgia is what kept me playing RS3 for 10 years longer than I should have. Being a good game is why I play OSRS.

[@kennyklaar5935]

Nostalgia is why I play OSRS. Most people play OSRS for nostalgia. How can you get Nostalgia for RS3 that came out 2013 and not for the OSRS that came out 2001? Did you play RS3 first before you tried OSRS? I am 30 years old and played OSRS when I was only 8 years old, so for me it's nostalgia for OSRS and not RS3, and it's same for the majority of the players.

[@soulfuldevil]

​@@kennyklaar5935first of all, Classic was 2001, the closest thing to OSRS pre-2007 would have been around 2004 when RS2 came out, and even then 2004Scape is a lot different than 2007Scape. OSRS is 2007 RuneScape, nearly 2008 given it was an August backup. By the time EoC came around it was only 5ish years, but for most of that time the major things that changed was graphics and new quests, Minigames, and two skills (summoning and Dungeoneering), otherwise the game was the same exact game it always was. As Jimmy said in the video, it's not that people specifically wanted 2007, it's that it was coincidentally the backup available. People were fine just reverting the game back pre-EoC, so basically the 2010-2012 RSHD era. The whole point of the video is the game wasn't made because of nostalgia, it was made to correct the wrong of EoC at the time. Second of all, 2013 was ELEVEN YEARS AGO! A whole decade and change easily allows for nostalgia. For me, being 27, that was between my sophomore and junior year of high school, we've (at least Americans) had 3 different administrations! Heck, dude, with the pandemic there can be an argument for a faster developed nostalgia for a time pre-COVID. The important factor of nostalgia is the key memories and vibes of the time you're nostalgic for. I have nostalgia for EoC beta, I have nostalgia for playing RuneScape on my high school computers, I made friends at high school over RuneScape, it was so long ago that there are fond memories that brings that sharp emotion of nostalgia. Like, I play OSRS a lot more now than RS3 despite overall preferring RS3. Three maxed accounts and no care for completionist gets a bit boring after a while. I love the PvM, but after doing HM Zuk hundreds of times it does get a bit boring. I played since 2006, I am one of the best candidates for nostalgia, I voted for it to be released back in the day! But as release day happened, I got on, got off tutorial island, and realized I hated what I was playing. I wasn't maxed on RS3, hell I didn't have a single 99 by the time OSRS came out, so I ditched OSRS to continue RS3. I was fine with EoC overall, I liked the beta, and while it was rushed and jank on release it got so much better! Revolution++ is so great, Necromancy has become my favorite skill next to Archaeology, I never got into PvM until EoC came out, so there are some feelings of nostalgia for the early days of RS3. I hated Squeal of Fortune, I hated the MTX they were adding, but the core of the game I loved was still there. I play OSRS more now because I'm bored if the same grinds AND so much more content was released I never got to try. I wasn't playing when Zeah was released, I'm a huge quester and so many unique quests came out for OSRS while RS3 stagnated, new takes on content otherwise released was super cool like Prif, and the biggest factor was Group Ironman. mode. I'm not a solo guy, but mains get boring when you can just buy everything. I got some of my old buddies into OSRS because of group Ironman and that's kept me playing ever since. Nostalgia was never a factor in my reason to play OSRS and I've played since before OSRS was even a backup. As Jimmy said, sometimes a sound will hit me, but my entire reason for playing or even joining in the first place never involves nostalgia.

[@PowerfulVillain]

I have nostalgia for the real OS - 2k5 times. Back when every game world was packed with players from the edgeville wildy zone all the way through to barb village fishing. F2P and P2P alike. Rage quit when EoC came out and only came back for divination skill. From then on, RS3 has been my absolute favourite. Couldn't do without abilities and presets now... and surge. OS kids have lot of patience to keep clicking. I'm too old for that 😂, need my keybinds!

[@michaelsiegfried3878]

@@kennyklaar5935well for me cause rs3 has my 15+ year account

[@McC1928]

I was pulled back into OSRS by a friend, after near 15 year hiatus, due to your and settled's content, and some nostalgia. I completed free to play, and got membership. He quit the game again, but I didn't. And now I know, that I didn't even understand the game before. I was clicking squares in my browser with a friend who also just clicked squares. There's no element of nostalgia that made me play a main for 5000 hours, and now currently 1000 hours deep into a group ironman account with complete strangers I met through a clan bingo event. OSRS is my main game, and the community, content creation, updates and devs that truly feel like they care, are what keeps me here, not memories about collecting and selling banana's as a money maker twenty years ago.

[@ViroHeresy]

I really don't like where Asmondgold's channel has gone. His environment is its own echo chamber these days, everyone either agrees with him or they don't watch his content. So he's gained a lot of false confidence in areas he has no real insight into. Simply watching a video of highly condensed information doesn't really give you the ability to speak professionally to that element... but with so many followers it can easily become the prevailing uneducated opinion... which is frustrating to the rest of us. From a developer standpoint, Nastalgia was something the OSRS team was very aware of and leery about. They've worked very hard to be more than just 07scape and I think its insulting to the hard work that Jagex has put into new content to keep its players enjoying OSRS. Jagex has nurtured the trust of the community and as long as they keep true to that trust, they'll have people willing to sink hundreds to thousands of hours into the game.

[@cmobro]

The reason why he built such large audience is because that much people agreed to his insights.

[@dylangrizzle]

I watched Asmons video and read his chat, pausing now and again cuz of the speed, but there were many peeps that disagreed with his nostalgia take. I am among them.

[@aftermodesmusic7440]

​@@dylangrizzleexactly

[@carldrogoo]

I'm a new player because of finding videos from Settled and J1mmy. I had never played this game before last year and am now 7 quests away from the quest cape. Nostalgia didn't get me here, didn't keep me.

[@alanmoulet1362]

Settled gave us so many new player , the swampletics series was a true blessing

[@deeja825]

It's so funny how Asmongold makes all of these statements as if he knows everything about how RuneScape players feel after literally admitting he knows nothing about the history of RuneScape

[@oopomopoo]

Interesting you bring this up as if it's an issue. I mean by all means it can be informative. However, this is a basic level of human judgement and understanding. It's like thinking of grocery stores. You've been to Walmart, you've shopped there. If someone asks about what its like shopping at HEB, Publix, etc, can you give them feedback? While you may not have specific feedback on that store, you can cross reference your experience shopping at other grocery stores. If you've been to 15 grocery stores and they all have generally the same layout, items and such with a few differences, it would be a reasonable assumption that in a topic about grocery stores, you can say a disclaimer saying "I've never been to kroger but ~~~~~~" and insert your experiences from similar grocery stores. In most social circles, that is seen as a perfectly valid method of communication because it states you don't have first hand experience, but are comparing it to other experiences you've had. You may not have biked on trail A, but you can share how fun bike riding was as an experience from Trail B-D. This also opens up the communication to correct any misunderstandings or difference in experience. You may say I wish kroger had fresh nuts, and by gosh turns out they do now! Nice and simple conversation with new information. With the internet, there is no concept of having an opinion. It's either entirely true or not. You can't have an opinion on a game if you have not played it for 100 hours. You cannot have an opinion on an emotion or concept like nostalgia if it dares contradict what another person feels about it. The conversation piece is lost where you would have a back and forth dialogue, meeting a middle ground and gaining perspective you may not have had. Even reacts like this lack this communication, though it's better than the comment section. It's totally understandable as well - 1 person making a video cannot reasonably respond to hundreds to tens of thousands of people wanting to have a conversation to meet in the middle so it ultimately turns into "hardheaded streamer ~~~" and people polarize. It's okay to like someone and not like some of their opinions. Unfortunately we're in a society where people are so polarized by opinions that they cut ties as soon as they realize you agree or disagree with a certain streamer / movement. If I can have a hundred friends, why bother having one who disagrees with what I think? Anyways, yeah. It's fine to have an opinion after you state your credentials. That preemptively informs the viewer of your credentials and allows them to review your feedback appropriately. I never played FFXIV til a year or two ago but before that, I could reasonably talk about it based on my experience with other MMOs as well as the things I've seen and heard from other FFXIV creators. I would have said some inaccurate things and in a real conversation, would have been corrected and learned - but the majority of information would still have been accurate and more than enough to have a conversation about the topic. As a side thought - if reading and watching information isn't informative on a subject, why do we form opinions and retain things news and other clickbait headlines tell us and share them like it's gospel? I'm sure the vast majority of people reading this will cite how diet soda causes cancer because the news told them it does but they have never looked into the study, nor the hundreds (S) of studies that do not share the same results. They don't realize that the rats were dosed with up to 4000mg / kg and the HUMAN acceptable daily intake is only 40mg / kg. These people had the audacity to do this to these animals for MONTHS. No one knows about that because they've never looked into it, yet they've taken the word as fact and repeat it as such. The same people get defensive when something they like (such as video games) has someone talk about it inaccurately, sort of like how I'm talking now about this study. Interesting. I'm not quite sure where to go with that other than we should all be better at taking in information. People will always be uninformed and we'd probably be a better society if we handled conversations better instead of assuming the worst intent. Anyways, this was a crazy long reply. Take care friends, have a good day, stay hydrated and enjoy your favorite games

[@Tekshipie]

Asmongold has made a living thinking he knows as much about WoW as any other topic. Which is obviously not true.

[@itsmechrispy6083]

@@Tekshipie and he doesn't even understand wow really just knows the items, the actual game play of it and what the player base wants he is lost says the most out of pocket shit where every other top player raider and pvp or even the mid lvl ones say hes wrong. Asmon just high on his own FARTS and is so out of touch with everything he might actually need to touch grass for a bit

[@BirnieMac1]

@@Tekshipiehe’s the very embodiment of the dunning-kruger effect and moreover mt stupid

[@reyjuman9116]

I mean he owns 4 massively successful businesses in different fields. Whether you like him or not, the world hasn't shown him he's incorrect

[@TheRiconegro]

"It's 40 minutes! It's too long!" says a guy who probably spent 4 hours waiting for a group to raid Black Rock back in the day.

[@wearblackclothes]

If he watches the hour reaction and reacts but not the 40 mintue wow video 😂

[@PaladinfffLeeroy]

Yeah. My problem with Asmon is that he is so full of contradictions. "I am the graph guy. I like hard ... facts and numbers." *Promptly ignores the graphs Jimmy put up* I watch both of them but Asmon has had some shit takes recently. Like, a lot of shit takes. One of which is the graphics thing. No, you doofus, graphics aren't the main reason Baldurs Gate 3 did well... It did well because it was a really well made TTRPG game and people love TTRPG games that are well made. If graphics were a good reason for anything doing well then why have many modern games with amazing graphics been so fucking shit and lackluster? 5Head.

[@MaXxOwnagesMel]

yeah but he didnt stream it, bit of a difference haha

[@emikochan13]

@@PaladinfffLeeroy those graphics are not relevant, hence why they're ignored. The issue is that both of them are using a different definition of the word nostalgia. You can't agree with someone that is talking a different language.

[@PaladinfffLeeroy]

@@mrbubbles6468 What are you on about? BG3 was being played because many people have enjoyed/are enjoying DnD and other Tabletop RPGs... Not because of graphics... I do not think that you realise what nostalgia actually is. Sentiment for the past. OSRS is not the past. I can hardly even be called the same game as it was back then. The game has doubled their peak concurrent player count from their "golden age" in 2007-2010. HOW could that be sentiment for the past if there are double the number of players? Where are they coming from then? I do not sell the game to other based on sentiment for the past, I sell the game for being respectful of your time investment, having the best quests of any big MMO, being able to be 2nd screen gameplay or really intense gameplay, and having the highest skill ceiling of any PVP in any MMO.

[@davidlivshin8450]

Completely agree with you, i feel like as a 20 year old and being part of the younger player base, i cant even have much nostalgia considering ive been playing OSRS since 2019, ive been addicted af but it has nothing to do with nostalgia. I feel like i can have nostalgia for something like old minecraft version, but as you point out, i can only play for about 20 minutes until the effect wears off and im suddenly just playing an outdated version of the game. It beginning to get frustrating that Asmond is not seeing the point that you make about OSRS not being driven by nostalgia XD. Anyway, love the video essays, watch every single one, sometimes multiple times.

[@sorrynotsorry8224]

Asmon thinks his chat is a sounding board when in reality, it's an echo chamber.

[@ImSoReezy]

The amount of people I have met that have said something along the lines of "I've never played OSRS but I love X series and watch every episode" or "I tried the game because I saw X video" is insane to me. These players don't have nostalgia they are just interested in what OSRS can be.

[@armedwwings2663]

Also a point that's been made a lot is that OSRS is easy to watch. Runescape3 might be 'modern' graphically and mechanically, but it is almost impossible to understand what the hell is happening unless you're skilling.

[@flashback170]

you and asmon on that 200 mil Farming grind

[@jonsnow1324]

9rain has the opportunity to do the funniest thing ever by reacting to this.

[@Cropod]

9rain I know ur here make it happen

[@heti8140]

@9rain

[@BirnieMac1]

9who?

[@midnightseraph2526]

Would absolutely love to see 9Rain or Hannanie react to this lol

[@ChrisReale]

Pls mr 9rain

[@NNickGarcia]

the first 2 minutes are a baller move.... you earned my sub.

[@matteogenoese-zerbi3063]

Forget the presidential debate, we want J1mmy and asmond debate.

[@wearblackclothes]

Nostalgia gets your foot in the door. Being a great game keeps you trapped inside

[@maniacmatt7340]

This is the truth about nostalgia

[@acow1385]

A good analogy would be a reformed crack addict going back and trying some candy he used to eat as a kid. The nostalgia kicks in and he enjoys the candy for a few minutes, then forgets about it. He then decides to try some crack again cuz he remembers the nostalgia of his crack days. However, with crack being crack, he can’t stop once he’s started again, and eventually finds himself in a deep crack hole years later. He didn’t continue abusing crack because it was nostalgic, he kept abusing crack because it’s crack.

[@jimmy13morrison]

​@@acow1385no it's not

[@Tyrion5556]

I love Asmon mentioning a pie chart graph when J1mmy is yelling “LOOK AT THE GRAPH, THE GRAPH DOESNT LIE”

[@richardkim3652]

Nostalgia makes you come back but new updates and contents makes you stay in the game. So nostalgia was like 50% of the reason why old school players came back. Nostalgia is like a hook so Asmon is kinda right.

[@twoinch]

@@richardkim3652 but theres tens of thousands of players that never played before OSRS. they have no ties to runescape nostalgia.

[@LPcrazy_88]

@@richardkim3652 I completely agree, Asmon is overstating it a little, and Jimmy is understating it a lot. We are still getting RS2 content added into the game to this day like the Path of Gouphrie for example that is around the corner. Like you said, nostalgia doesn't keep keep people but it does bring them back.

[@richardkim3652]

@@LPcrazy_88 Finally someone who understand what I'm saying thank you! lol

[@richardkim3652]

@@LPcrazy_88 Finally someone who understands what I'm saying thank you! lol

[@theremix54]

The most important part of your video is one of the end quotes. "What people who dont play runescape dont understand, is that the game fundementally gets so much right that others get wrong" To a huge portion of the population, an MMO is BY DEFINITION a clone of wow. Because they have been for so long, they cant fathom that a game in the "wow genre" isent a typical game. EVERYTHING runescape does has an interesting flair to it. You learn cool shit all the time, Last night I was going to do some woodcutting, but I got a gargoyle slayer task for the first time. While doing it, I saw the door to head to the roof. Found out the gargoyles drop keys, farmed a key, fought the boss a for a bit a won. That was an afternoon adventure that came out of nowhere after hundreds of hours.

[@fabiopauli420]

the fact you didnt even knew Dusk and Dawn exist honestly kinda makes me happy, mainly cause i spend to much time on the wiki...

[@GrapheneCore]

Im maxed done all queets and achievement diaries and Im still learning new things all the time. The amount of depth this game has is astonishing.

[@Chiblu]

I started playing osrs for the first time in college in 2018. Never played any version of Runescape before that, and am still playing to this day. Nostalgia couldn't be a factor for me, yet I have more hours in osrs than any other game.

[@TheMcCannic1]

I'm not as Asmons fan at all but I really enjoyed your original vid & love these reacts as it gives you the time to expand on your thoughts as well as some back & forth. Great Content J

[@TiakOSRS]

The fact the graphs so clearly show that nostalgia doesn't work and he just ignores it is insane

[@AnOliviaShapedGremlin]

Listening to him talk, he doesn't sound like the kinda guy who'd ever let something like new data get in the way of an existing opinion lmao

[@c.f.bellairs1055]

@@AnOliviaShapedGremlin a common quote from Asmon is "you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't use reason to arrive at in the first place." Ironically, he rarely uses reason when ranting about video games, lol

[@LPcrazy_88]

That graph says a lot of things, and it's naive to think it only says one thing out of context. The context of that graph says a lot more about OSRS than what Jimmy claimed. When OSRS released it had countless issues including DDoS attacks, years of polish and content to catch up to, bare-bones clients, and Jagex having an all-time low in player confidence, among other issues.

[@c.f.bellairs1055]

@@kennyklaar5935 That doesn't account for a significant portion of the playerbase having never played OSRS in their youth. The nostalgia argument just doesn't work with that factored in, yet you and Asmon seem keen to completely ignore that little detail.

[@kennyklaar5935]

@@c.f.bellairs1055 I respect you taking this respectfully, but yes it is the reason of the majority of the player base, including me. I been talking to thousands of runescape players since OSRS came back on and asked them why do u play OSRS? Guess the answers i got, nostalgia. Just like a very few of them did not answer nostalgia, but most did. I played since I was 8 years old, 30 now and i came back just for the nostalgia. And so are the most player base too.

[@godly74]

Guy who has only play world of Warcraft: "This is just like world of Warcraft!" Asmon has literally no idea what he's talking abt.

[@loyalzerg]

There's a quote on the Dan Olson video about crypto that I feel applies here. They know a lot about one very complicated system and assume all other systems must be less complicated and easy for them to also understand.

[@ExarchGaming]

while asmongold's opinion here can be debated all day. If you think all he's ever played is WoW, I can tell you've never watched his content. I'd say he knows more about ARPGs than MMOs, he got his start doing diablo 3 content, has been playing Paths of Exile for like 8 years, in just the last couple of years he's put hundreds of hours in to games like Monster Hunter, any and all Souls-likes, he maxed himself out on Lost Ark, and New World, he played through all of a realm reborn on FF14. This is all on stream, he plays a lot of these games off stream as well. He got a massive boost in popularity when classic came out, and the pandemic hit; but to say that's the only game he plays is just ignorant.

[@Gohan237]

@@ExarchGaming^

[@Rabidconscience]

Get used to it. I remember when he was saying “this is just like WoW dragonflight” about guild wars 2 flying mounts. Even though Dragonflight blatantly copied GW2s mount systems

[@literallyjustgrass]

​@@loyalzergthat one elon tweet about chess lmao

[@Lambda.Function]

As someone who just started OSRS for the first time just a week ago -- nostalgia has not played any part in my unhealthy amount of playtime already.

[@Lambda.Function]

@@mrbubbles6468 Playing group iron with some friends.

[@littlekale]

I have played wow since the 6th grade, but when I started playing it was TBC not classic, so I technically don't have nostalgia for any of the classic raids or end game dungeons, but I played a whole lot of classic vanilla when it came out. The first few hours are nostalgia for the old zones the way they were, but once I outlevelled where I got when I was younger, it was just genuinely enjoying the RPG aspects of the game.

[@TravDoc]

Had this in my head and glad you covered it around 33 min, "Nostalgia gets new players IN the door, but new original content and community is what makes OSRS strong"

[@noha112]

He won't acknowledge your charts but he made a hypothetical chart. Get absolutely owned J1mmy.

[@brendondowdy5651]

Wait J1mmy got owned?

[@nach4642]

​@@brendondowdy5651 You didn't see the part at 41:50 where Asmon mimes a chart and shows you how big the slice is? Typical ~nostalgia~ lover wearing their ~nostalgia~ goggles refusing to see TRUE and REAL data.

[@SlimReaper1997]

Cope for assmon goldilocks more

[@hillbilly999100]

Bruh Jimmy's way funnier than asmon and not as much of a neckbeard

[@as3609]

The level of social ineptitude in this comment chain is astounding. I get that sarcasm doesn't always translate well in text but, come on, guys... At least try...

[@joelhatterini6392]

I don't play a ton of OSRS, but I can tell you this - when Runescape and Runescape 2 were at their height, in like 2003-2007, I was barely aware it existed. I did not have any knowledge or interest in the game before I saw McTile, actually, I watched Swampletics after McTile had already gotten to like episode 3. I even played through like 90% of the F2P content in OSRS, on a whim, some time like last year. Nostalgia is the furthest possible factor for me. I feel nothing - nostalgia-wise - for the graphics, audio, writing, or gameplay. Asmondgold has no idea what he's talking about (as usual).

[@Shallaan]

And we had no idea WoW existed because we had shit PCs, no money for expensions and 5$ a month for runescape was already way too much for our parents, rich neighborhood were different I guess

[@Blackbaldrik]

The fact that OSRS is currently multiple years older than RuneScape was when OSRS was created, and is right now pretty much the most successful RuneScape has ever been, disproves the nostalgia argument all by itself.

[@Blackbaldrik]

@@mrbubbles6468 I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but, "Nuh-uh!", isn't an argument.

[@boss2329]

​@@Blackbaldrik lol damn this mr bubbles guy must be getting cooked, this is like the third comment thread I've opened with replies dunking on this man while his original comment is nowhere to be seen loool

[@hem9483]

@@boss2329 yeah buster must've pussied out

[@Defender2516]

Runescape 3 proves OSRS is better and a success. It has all the new bells and whistles, but its NOT runescape gameplay, more runescape-like. That's why OSRS is successful.

[@anarchostatist191]

​@@Defender2516 Runescape 3 is not popular because it's being loaded to the brim with microtransactions and has an obtusely confusing new player experience, combined with having none of the nostalgia. The gameplay is good and still way more similar to OSRS than any other game you'll find.

[@JeffreyGreeb]

This is by far one of the best meta commentaries on meta commentary discussions I’ve ever seen. Thanks

[@StankyRS]

The Chad J1mmy vs the Virgin Asmongold

[@Oomlie]

The fact that OSRS hit an all time player record during the recent Trailblazer League should just end the argument

[@frozencaterpiller1263]

It beat that again last week I think, without a league..

[@joshholmes1372]

And dmm allstars went insane

[@TheGreatMaou]

@@frozencaterpiller1263 haven't played osrs in a minute, what happened last week to give it that big of a boost?

[@ultraman6644]

​@@TheGreatMaouI think while guthix rests got added which doesn't count for this argument because it's a quest brought over from the main game. The trails is still valid though

[@shame1290]

its funny how asmon cant fathom the fact that "bad graphic game, but the game is good" so he tries to link it to nostalgia

[@maniacmatt7340]

Fr he thinks graphic equal gameplay, and he's coming from WoW 😂

[@Salsmachev]

That's why he thinks CoX isn't anything different from Kalphite Queen.

[@shame1290]

@@Salsmachev tbf the game is incomprehensible unless youve played for a decent amount if time. I still remember my 1st impression of osrs in 2020, i did not understand a thing.

[@Salsmachev]

@@shame1290 I'm pretty sure that if thousands of ten year olds managed to figure the game out almost twenty years ago, it can't possibly be that incomprehensible. Especially since there's so much help these days from the wiki and video guides. I think what you're getting at, though, is that if Asmon hasn't played much OSRS, then he won't understand why CoX is so different from what came before. I agree, and that's exactly the problem with him. He is, essentially, being arrogant. J1mmy, an undeniable expert on OSRS, says that "This gameplay isn't nostalgic". Asmon doesn't have enough game knowledge to understand why that's true. But instead of asking "How is this different? Why is an experienced player saying it's different?" he simply says "Oh it looks the same so the expert must be wrong".

[@theparagonal]

​@@mrbubbles6468That's... Not what that means. You don't even know what nostalgia means and you're here trying to prop up Asmon. A game can be better in an earlier time without it being purely for nostalgia. Y'know... Like OSRS. He even discusses it in the video. Nostalgia does not keep tens of thousands of people playing for over a decade.

[@worldofcubing8242]

Asmon: Spends the whole video arguing about hypothetical situations of games releasing in the current time in hypothetical universes where they didn't ever release the original version of this hypothetical game Also Asmon: "I don't like arguing with people with like, uh, theoreticals" 54:35

[@richardkim3652]

I came back for nostalgia but I stayed and played longer because of the new contents and updates so Asmon is kinda right. Also I played RS in 2001 so im a very old school player that's 100% nostalgia and ALL my friends are also very veteran players to lol.

[@whippycream1]

That was a crazy contradiction to say right at the end!

[@Spearra]

Sounds like Asmon is projecting hard lol

[@serenaishere2639]

​@@Spearra Exactly! Projecting his Classic Wow experience onto OSRS

[@TheLefty5o2]

I played rs2 when I was young and I do have nostalgia for the game and it was part of why I tried osrs after it came out, but later on. But my nostalgia is in the music and name. I was a fashionscape player who didn't quest and just chilled out while woodcutting and voice chatting with my friend, or following him around turning into an egg constantly. I loved when the graphics got updated and we got more detail on the characters so I could make more fun fashionscape. That's where my nostalgia is. With OSRS I started from scratch, just playing by myself. I started questing, doing slayer, finding money makers. Things I never did during my 'nostalgia' era. Plus, with the advent of graceful, fashionscape felt dead. Wearing anything else was basically playing the game in slowmode. This was an ENTIRELY different game to what I experienced back in the day and I fell for it all over again because it was still fun, despite not being what I grew up with and enjoyed. I miss the graphic update, and creating new outfits, and just chilling around a few trees with no one around or with randoms all chopping vines. But the game was still good enough to keep me playing despite not having what brought me to keep playing back in the day. This game is not the same one I played back in the day, it feels entirely different to me. tl;dr: Nostalgia, or really name recognition, got my foot in the door with osrs. The new experiences are what kept me playing.

[@xincnos9657]

Genuinely sounds like asmon is just projecting his experience with WoW onto runescape

[@cmobro]

Well he was asked to react to Jimmi's video and give his opinions, so he did, how is that a bad thing?

[@jacobmontgomery5194]

That game mode scene was one of best KZbin scenes I’ve ever seems, still gives me chills the second time

[@dogbot55]

Talking about osrs an nostalgia is like talking about NES tetris and nostalgia. There are newer, prettier, more optimised versions of tetris. The NES tetris scene is bigger than ever these days, with most of the people playing it being born decades after it came out. Something that is quality isn't just nostalgia.

[@dialga236]

spot on comparison, thats insanely accurate

[@Gambsmoore]

That nostalgia definition pull up was REEAAAACHHINNNGGG. He's using "nostalgia" like it's a word that applies to anything you want that used to be a thing... Like... You're not nostalgic for happiness if you're in an abusive relationship and want out, you're just trying to get out of an abusive relationship. There's no nostalgia involved, lol

[@Gambsmoore]

I think maybe you two agree on this subject more than either of you would admit to each other. Nostalgia definitely has a part, I think maybe... Nostalgia has a diminishing return, but it can be revived after you take a break. That "Item sold on the GE" sound effect ALWAYS gets me the first time I've come back. It's... It's a factor, a powerful factor that gave the games their own initial playerbase, something that is NECESSARY for an MMO, or just any online game to succeed. Even if a player is playing without nostalgia, someone that just started in 2017, those players are influenced by the fact that there is a thriving community there, and many of those people were at some point influenced by nostalgia.

[@jackalo34]

@@Gambsmoore But their initial playerbase only needed to become a thing bc of the dumb eoc update. w.o it, rs2 wouldve just kept moving along with other updates n no osrs would arise.

[@Gambsmoore]

@@jackalo34 shoulda woulda coulda

[@Jagpagaco]

Yeah , I just feel like Asmongold just straight up doesn't understand what nostalgia is. "People wanted something that they don't have .... *NOW THAT'S NOSTALGIA RIGHT THERE* " I used to have a second monitor that works fine and now i don't ... im not fucking nostalgic of having a second monitor that's working yo ... *I JUST WANT THE THING THAT WORKS*

[@BudgetDiety]

Asmon spent this whole video doing that kind of logic where he's pretending like he's on the side of common sense so obvious that it's just like a self-evident truth or something with takes as intelligent as "An Old school game isn't nostalgia? Am I crazy?!?!" which basically is just admitting he didn't think about what was said at all.

[@Daathfeuer]

He said "I am completely confident about my opinion." There's no changing a person like that's mind.

[@radguy72]

Saying Old school RuneScape is mainly succeeding because of nostalgia is ignorant. Imagine someone took your car, changed the engine from an 8 cylinder to a 4 cylinder, removed power steering, painted it bright pink, and replaced your disk brakes with drum brakes. If you asked for your old car back and that person said "you only want/like your old car because of nostalgia" you'd look at them like they're insane. Sure, to some extent that car has memories attached that make you nostalgic. But that car drives completely fucking different from your previous car. This is what happened to RS3. They changed the combat and sold their soul. The game became garbage. Players wanted their old car back, partially due to nostalgia but mostly due to the fact that the other version of the game was clearly better. Just because people like a different version of the game doesn't mean the only reason it's thriving is due to nostalgia. Nostalgia is me going back to play Club Penguin for an hour or two. I visit the old towns, maybe do some mini games, check out the puffles, and then I log out. Never to log in again for years because I only wanted to log in for some nostalgia. I can't keep playing it constantly getting nostalgia from the game. That's not how it works, it's not an infinite dopamine loop. I like OSRS because this car drives way fucking better than the pile of shit down the street, not because I long for the old days.

[@burkedigital]

3:50 this is some Multiverse of Madness shit edit: perhaps it's because I'm an active OSRS player, but even with understanding where Asmon is coming from, the nostalgia I get from a music track is like a puff of a vape when the game at large is the tobacco farm. It's not even close to what fuels the addiction.

[@Cropod]

coughing a little bit too much to this one

[@J1mmy]

that shot’s budget was insane

[@Cropod]

@@mrbubbles6468 meanwhile me, someone who heard about RuneScape for the first time in 2018. played a main account for a year and quit. then started an iron recently and finally surpassed it making it almost to song of the elves.

[@burkedigital]

@@mrbubbles6468 I agree. My own experience is a little different, but I'm sure this is the case for many!

[@unarmeduim2150]

asmongold Lost his own argument 38:39 "I'm not saying runescape would fail if not for nostalgia" & " RuneScape gets new players"

[@richardkim3652]

That's every game.... WoW Classic is nostalgia and still gets new players, FF14 has nostalgia and still gets new players and GW2 has nostalgia and still gets new players. What Asmon is trying to say I think is that nostalgia is the main reason why old veteran players come back and new updates and contents are the reason why they play and stay longer. A good example is me and my friends. I played RS in 2001 and I came back to OSRS in 2021 because of all the good memories I had since it was my first mmo and the new updates and content is the reason why I stayed and played longer and that's the same with all my friends who are also old RS veteran players.

[@jimmy13morrison]

​@richardkim3652 exactly that's why you came back in 2021 pretty sure that today in 2024 you're not still running on those memories from 2001

[@unarmeduim2150]

@@richardkim3652 He clearly said "THIS GAME O N L Y Exists because people have nostalgia for it." now he said "I'm not saying runescape would fail if not for nostalgia" contradiction

[@jimmy13morrison]

@@mrbubbles6468 to comment said "came back" after 3 years you're not still coming back you've been there for a while

[@richardkim3652]

@@unarmeduim2150 But what I am saying is the initial players who came back were the old school veteran players then the new people came watching them and they came back because of nostalgia so nostalgia is the cause so it's like 50% of the pie chart. That's why I agree when Asmon said nostalgia is a really BIG reason why people started playing again. Then they stayed for the new contents and updates which is the other half 50%.

[@joshsantoro5153]

I started playing old school runescape for nostalgia, just like loads of others I know. I was close to maxing my account, tried rs3 and haven't logged onto my osrs account since. It definitely started with nostalgia but has now grown into its own game with all the new updates so I see both sides of the arguments

[@AlterraTheKnight]

I completely agree with your point about nostalgia. I don't play OSRS, though I still watch and love your videos, but I do play World of Warcraft. When Classic came out, I of course went in partially because of nostalgia but also because I played on private vanilla servers and just genuinely enjoy that era of WoW. The friends that I've made in Classic, I was genuinely surprised at how many of them had never played WoW in their lives. They all came to Classic for a variety of reasons and have stayed since. Not out of any sense of a nostalgia of Warcraft past, but because they fell in love with the game itself. As you said, nostalgia can be the cause of someone hitting that download button but it won't make them stay. And plenty of people play these older games for the first time, and stay, without nostalgia being a factor.

[@alexpersson5727]

One of the main things i find different between OSRS and WOW Classic, as someone who has played both runescape and wow for over 15 years, is that there is no fundamental one thing that is different between classic and retail wow. There was no one event that made huge changes to the game marking a before and after date, like EOC or the trade restrictions. Wow classic is way more based on nostalgia than OSRS ever was, since this is literally about "we just want it to be how it was when we were younger", despite it not being fundamentally different. This can also be seen with how much people like Asmongold was going for the "no changes" rhetoric while classic was getting ready for release, they don't want a classic wow but better, they just want it to be 2006 again. That's also why wow classic hasn't seen the longterm success that osrs has had, because wow classics fans largely consist of people just wanting to play what they have played before, whilst osrs players wanted a game that was in a different fundamental state than the new version, and have been (after some years of course) been very okay with new things being added, things rebalanced and changed, as long as the game is now fundamentally what they enjoy playing. Long rant sorry, but I find Asmon deeply annoying in how he treats wow classic versus retail wow and needed to get this off my chest.

[@dicksmclong6622]

@@mrbubbles6468 cata suddenly replaced the map/quests in old zones but every other aspect of the game was slowly changed over the course of 3-4 expansions. quest design gradually changed from sporatic random questgivers to centralized hubs. raid designs went through a ton of different player numbers, difficulty modes, and encounter styles. dungeon design radically changed from sprawling mazes to optimized corridors. battlegrounds, arena, and pvp ranks completely changed pvp. crossrealm/phasing/lfg/lfr further complicated everything. wow had no 1 singular eoc-tier update that changed the game

[@MyNameIsSalo]

I'd argue that wow classic and osrs fans are the same. Neither is seeking the highschool version of their favourite game. They're seeking a better version of it. The difference is that blizzard is using wow classic for nostailiga bait, literality redoing all the exact same updates in order. OSRS is a new game entirely. WoW classic could easily be the next big MMO to dethrone WoW if they stop with the nostaligia baiting and just make brand new community approved content updates.

[@DodgySmalls]

​@@MyNameIsSalo I think his point stands though. The massive rallying cry of "no changes" really left the game's development in deadlock. I can't blame the community, as it doesn't seem like there's leadership you can trust at blizzard to grow the game in a positive way, but they planted their flag, and whether a vocal minority or not, the zeitgeist of the community was definitely nostalgia and "authenticity" driven. The simplest example of that problem was how the community berated the devs into trying to develop a zombified version of batching, citing irrelevant PvP scenarios and other nonsense to support their claim that "everything must be as it was for classic to be valid". You're probably just viewing it from the same perspective as a portion of that fanbase (myself included) who would've preferred classic+, as the game has no long term merit without growth and change to accommodate the 15+ year gap it needs to clear to survive. But I don't believe that's really the prevailing sentiment of WoW players, or at least it wasn't during classic and classic TBC.

[@1haunt]

Yeah and for what it's worth, the same "no changes" mentality was the zeitgeist amongst runescape players back when osrs was released/about to be released. EOC was such a bad direction for the game that the players wanted absolutely no updates for osrs; players had zero trust in Jagex regarding the game's future. Once the playercount declined and the game showed signs of dying, adding content such as GWD didn't seem like such a bad idea after all. Definitely took the community some convincing though but I'm glad the devs realized early on that the game wouldn't survive if they only listened to the "no updates" crowd.

[@notimeforsean]

I think cata is the event that fits, it changed the entire world that everyone had played in since vanilla, changed a lot of classes completely, dumbed down the talent system, added flying to azeroth, and the content was a massive step in difficulty compared to wotlk. Slowly over time more private servers popped up and gained popularity around this point. To me these are all fundamental things that all got changed at once or within a short period of time. I personally feel that retail and vanilla are 2 separate games using similar assets because their design philosophies are near polar opposites. One is a fast paced mostly instanced game focused entirely on endgame where the other is a slow open world game leaning towards the levelling and social elements.

[@help_im_lost]

As soon as they start iterating on the old product, nostalgia is no longer a factor in getting players to come (if it was nostalgia, players would have stayed pre-updates to OSRS) Saying nostalgia is the main reason discredits EVERYTHING that has happened in the community since 2013 I don't understand how Asmon keeps making arguments that he just doesn't understand what he's saying (wow asmon is small brain - the game is so different than what 2007scape launched as)

[@Caio22011]

That's... Not how it works at all Nostalgia 100% is the reason most people come back. It's not the reason people continue playing, but to say most people don't come back because of nostalgia it's absolutely wrong

[@oopomopoo]

That's just factually untrue on the basic definition of nostalgia. You're right in the strawman that a game that has had updates is not the same game as the one you are nostalgic about, but the nostalgia absolutely pulls people back. Nostalgia is also not just the game, it's remembering a time, place and emotions. It's remembering being a 7 year old in Lumbridge not knowing what to do and I kill goblins. Nostalgia is remembering begging my mom to get a membership because I really wanted to make bronze claws. My nostalgia for Runescape has not one relation to the actual state of the game, but of my perception and mindset of the game at the time I played.

[@NoConsequenc3]

@@Caio22011 even if you're right, nostalgia doesn't account for how many people are playing. OSRS is mostly new players, not old ones.

[@NoConsequenc3]

@@oopomopoo Your argument means *all* video games rely on nostalgia, if they played games at a younger age. Completely ridiculous idea.

[@BioMasterZap]

I'd say it is more familiarity than nostalgia, but the two can be similar. Seeing a game that looks like you remember, even if you know it is new stuff you aren't familiar with, makes it more approachable for returning players. But it is not exactly "a wistful or excessively sentimental yearning for return to some past". It is like saying going back to a restaurant you liked is a decision driven by nostalgia. You can be nostalgic for an old restaurant from your childhood, but you can also just like going to eat at a restaurant because it makes good food. Same sort of thing is true for OSRS. Going back to play the Expansion/DLC/Updates of a game you enjoyed isn't exactly because of nostalgia; it is honestly more akin to like a style of game or series like Zelda and buying the new release.

[@Weckmon]

This is a dynamic duo. Truly amazing energy between these two

[@deaddead698]

I started a couple days ago, have zero nostalgia for the game, never played it and I saw the Falador Massacre documentary and said “why not”, and I’m loving every bit of this game I’ve seen the game before ages ago, and the old look of it is what made me *not* want to try to play at all

[@chloedegurechaff1941]

35:49 "content creators are all older guys." Looks over to Settled whos basically become the biggest OSRS creator, and he's like 26 years old XD

[@J1mmy]

I'm 26 - he's 3 years younger than me!

[@Godzeller3143]

Also, PoisonPotion, another young guy, didn’t start playing the game until 2017. He literally never played as a kid and even has a video where he said there is no nostalgia, it’s just a good game.

[@The_DutchKiwi]

Ikr? Wasn't he like 18 when Swampletics was coming out?

[@Alleggsander]

"all the updates and content added into OSRS are built into the game on the context of what people fondly remember from their childhoods" That's like saying the newest WoW expansion is built on nostalgia, because people fondly remember playing vanilla WoW. Killing boars is nothing like Dragonriding, and killing cows is nothing like raiding ToA. Absolute 0 IQ take.

[@josiahsmith7458]

exactly what childhood nostalgia is their in tob

[@Destryx1337x]

ya i physically recoiled at that take lmfao

[@stiffyogurt326]

asmongold usually has 0 IQ takes

[@AspiringDevil]

I also think it's objectively wrong. The new content isn't made from the perspective of "this needs to be just like 2008 RuneScape" when it's being designed.

[@Alleggsander]

@@josiahsmith7458 Exactly. "People only like OSRS for nostalgia!" He said while killing Lizardmen Shamans on Kourend for a Konar task, using his Leagues 4 ornamented BP with amethyst darts, trying to get a DWH drop, so he could start grinding CoX for a TBow, so he could then grind out Inferno attempts on his Ironman. Definitely remember the good old times doing that as a kid...

[@violettheshadowfan]

i started playing osrs like 8 months ago, and for me nostalgia is a complete non factor in enjoying it, I didn't play it as a kid an imo everything about it stands on its own merits. Anecdotally I've recently started playing maplestory, a game I did play as a kid, nostalgia was 100% a factor in my picking it up again, but it isn't what gets me to log in and grind everyday. I really enjoyed both this video and the original, in general I think it's really interesting watching creators react to their own content after the fact. As you showed here there's a lot of perspective to be gained from having the conversation again, especially with new insights from commenters etc. Good video 👍

[@blakestewart5781]

Nostalgia is simply a fleeting feeling. Nostalgia was what we saw in 2013 with the large spike in players and then a decline. Nostalgia isn’t what keeps people playing after a few weeks.

[@golddragon1123]

The crazy thing is that OSRS is now old enough where 10 years ago could be considered "nostalgic" and that's still an almost entirely different game than current OSRS. No raids, zulrah, vorkath, no DS2, MM2, DT2, the list goes on

[@ChetChettington]

I don't think Brighter shores is even comparable because the reason why people ask for 'Old School Runescape' is because of the vast amount of content and the diversity of said content. It's had years to build apon itself while having its other self(RS3) to test out what "could work". With community input and polls, It's had a lot of refining, and will continue to be refined. Having Brighter Shores, a new game that doesn't have those years of refinement is a voiceless comparison. People can find what they like within the countless amount of communites that runescape carries. Just like jimmy's showcase of all the unique accounts with goals that other games don't provide. There is so much to do! Side note: I think the same about POE and POE2. POE has had those years of building apon itself, and POE2 is going to be a brand new start.

[@maniacmatt7340]

Its like people forget, evolution of combat caused the want for rs2 to be brought back. They changed the fundamentals of the game.

[@darksskull]

The problem with his argument is runescape was one of the most popular mmo's even back when "oldschool" was just runescape. There was no nostalgia back then, because it was the current version of the game. If it's purely nostalgia, then why was it popular to begin with?

[@Spearra]

And mind you, it was SO, DAMM, OMNIPRESENT back in the day (alone side MySpace lol), that I could be playing it in public and quite a few people would regonize it. You don't get a player base that big when the game was still "new" over past feelings that couldn't even exist yet.

[@MajorJefferson]

It was so popular because it was good for its time and there wasn't anything else. Same with wow

[@McfcxEz]

@@SpearraI learned about the GE when I was FTP training on goblins on the library computers

[@jackalo34]

@@MajorJefferson There may not have been a billion crap mmos like now but there was EQ UO etc too so there were other options. And it continued to be popular over time only turning a lot off bc of eoc.

[@MajorJefferson]

@jackalo34 you never played wow. Wow was and still is even, the most accessible mmo for people of every age and ability. Also, it was so big that if you played anything hut wow you were a literal outsider because all your friends played it too

[@ryhuck5383]

Nostalgia got me to play it, nostalgia doesn't keep me playing it. I "played" it as a kid, I stood around Varrock and talked with friends. Now 27, I've been playing for 5 years and 97% of everything I've done either didn't exist or I didn't know it existed. OSRS in 2006 for me was a chatroom, in 2024 it's a video game. Two separate experiences

[@wafflemonkey8083]

This is so chaotic, im dying. I wasn't expecting 4 Jims on the screen at once, yet here we are and I'm loving every second of it

[@Flatfootsy]

Asmon's biggest issue with his perception is that he thinks Nostalgia is equal to or the same as Familiarity/Reputation. Yes, it's the oldschool 'version' or graphics, and Classic is the oldschool 'version' but both got to where they are currently with their reputation- NOT nostalgia. Runescape got here because it was heralded as exactly the game it is: a good game, with infinite replayability and a plethora of ways to play and new content as well as the old content that's been there since forever. Classic WoW got to where it is (dead as fuck) because of exactly what it was: Bad, dated and the same as it fucking was in 2006 with NOTHING new added to it whatsoever. The only thing Classic WoW ever got 'added' to it- was Hardcore. That's it. That's the entirety of it. Nostalgia isn't a factor for either, OSRS just completely buries Classic based on every single measurable metric.

[@mintysquinty2989]

He thinks that because people play classic wow for nostalgia that the same statement transfers to osrs, this is just not true. Classic wow is a carbon copy of the old game and doesn't get new content, it is today what it was in 2004. osrs is NOTHING like 2007 runescape, it's been molded into a new game. Nostalgia doesn't keep players in osrs. Dudes rat brain can't comprehend this.

[@1haunt]

From time to time I see some people (mostly complete idiots/super naive) asking for old school old school runescape, saying we need to reset current osrs and never make it leave 2007. I'll just start pointing them towards classic WoW as an example to show them what the game will end up like because I've already shown them the osrs player stats from 2013 when the game was a few months old with no new updates, the game was already dying. We are in the golden era of osrs IMO and some people still cling onto their childhood memories thinking things would be the same if we got that version back. We got it back 11 years ago and the game would've died if it stayed that way, there was barely any content to do - not to mention how much of a worse experience the game was to play, like you had to toggle run on/off under the settings tab for example. I just wanna grab these people by their shoulders and tell them: "We were kids back then and most are in their 30s or close to that now, you will NEVER capture that feeling again and it's time for you to come terms with that fact. You are not the same person and that's okay. Cherish those memories but don't live in them."

[@DIVAD291]

@@1haunt Another example of a game that was dying because it wasn't getting any new updates is super smash bros melee.

[@duewhat9815]

OSRS wouldn't exist to begin with without nostalgia and it would cease to exist without it. Just because it also wouldn't exist without the new and unique content being added to it doesn't change that fact. I don't know why people all of the sudden are pretending nostalgia is a bad thing or that just because it's not exactly what it was means there is no more nostalgia, that's just so asinine and weird.

[@Flatfootsy]

@@duewhat9815 Sure. If people weren't a little nostalgic to get OSRS back in 2013 then it wouldn't have happened. But saying people are nostalgic for it NOW therefore it wouldn't exist today without nostalgia is just dead wrong. It's had 11 years to get reputation as the game it is (a good one) and Nostalgia has little to nothing to do with that in 2024. No ones 'pretending' nostalgia is a bad thing, because its not, we're just not saying OSRS only continues to exist in 2024 because of it- because its not true at all.

[@zekeg6410]

I want J1mmy and Asmon to have an MMORPG podcast and just argue about this shit for hours

[@hardslaps]

that would be the good timeline

[@jenniferspence8676]

On the one hand, I love jimmy's content. on the other hand I really don't like that other guy. Can you just do a video where you react to yourself ad infinitum? That would be so much nicer to watch

[@kaikash]

What's wrong with asmon?! I don't watch him but I saw a clip of him on X and he seemed pretty reasonable. This as well.

[@HauntedOath]

@@kaikash his smug aura mocks me

[@XionicAihara]

​@kaikash alot of asmons takes can be pretty polarizing. Alot of people hate him, alot of people love him, a TON of people tolerate him cause he has some good takes sprinkled in with the bad. He's also pretty narrow minded and deadset on what he thinks is right and not what the general population typically agrees on.

[@oopomopoo]

@@XionicAihara Vocal population*

[@TheLKStar]

@@kaikash He's emotional and aggressive, extremely confident in things he doesn't understand and vocal about it. He's the guy that takes a glance at something, thinks he knows it better than anyone, takes a shit on it and then expends the rest of his life repeating how right he was. He is sometimes right, but he does opinionate about everything you can imagine... so he's mostly wrong. A lot of people enjoy watching deranged nonsense, so he got rich from it.

[@Hokanie]

I think its a great start to see the mutual respect between 2 passionate mmorpg players. I kinda agree with both of you. Yes, nostalgia is definitly a thing that made OSRS pop but nostalgia doesnt hold a playerbase. As WoW-enjoyer and OSRS-content enjoyer, I think that OSRS does alot of things right and i wish there was a way that would make wow as versatile as OSRS is. The way you can limit yourself in OSRS is insane and i think is almost impossible to emplement into WoW.

[@Chief_Chimp]

It's interesting that Asmon has the entire idea of nostalgia backwards. He argues that nostalgia is what gets people to stick around. That's the one thing nostalgia is useless for, if he argued that nostalgia is the driving force for getting people to TRY the game, he'd have a point.

[@vimalkarthik3461]

He'd be agreeing into J1mmy's point, then

[@Ray-lw2rh]

If it wasn’t for Asmon I would have never discovered your channel. Glad I did!

[@veliseo]

The only thing I learned from this is that Asmon doesn’t understand what nostalgia is

[@alexboiiii]

the hall of the mountain king montage of all the different ways people play osrs is one of my favorite things. ever.

[@seanmiller2681]

I absolutely agree with you on this topic. I played both WoW and Pre EOC/osrs and have for many years. I was among many that quit when EOC rolled out, I also remember thinking 2007 was too far back.. but we will take what we can get and I think most of us just wanted the same game but without the combat update. Wow had short-term success with its release of classic and seasonal servers but without constant updates they were going die.. everybody was constantly content starved because there just was not enough to do. When devs listen to the players feedback and use polls- its amazing how many good things can be accomplished Updates and NEW content Is the reason OSRS is successful, NOT nostalgia

[@Wismic]

bro has no idea what nostalgia means as it's explained to him for 20 minutes

[@daehv]

The video lengths keep doubling, Asmon's react will be 2 hours long 💀💀💀

[@bulturst1297]

double it and give it to the next person

[@Jomama7272]

People didn't play the game up until EoC because they constantly felt nostalgic.

[@akaku9]

Eoc was a shit launch and if the combat system from today was implemented on day 1 of eoc, a lot less people would have quit.

[@Jomama7272]

@@akaku9 What's different today? I haven't been on there since EoC.

[@akaku9]

@@Jomama7272 There's simply not enough time in the day to compare the two. EOC release was essentially a thought concept compared to the system today. Revolution should have been implemented from day 1. They essentially enlisted their entire player base to do Q&A on a game system that none of the developers had any experience with whatsoever. All without asking first. If you could buy a maxed character with maxed gear and play the endgame on day one; you would understand. It's not even a bad game. The only drawback is you must play as an ironman, as that's the only way you'll get an authentic experience. It truly feels like the way runescape was meant to be played. The grinds are still long but the QOL is unmatched. There's tons of abilities (probably 2-4x the amount on launch), all the combat styles feel equally strong, the end game is fuckin sick. I could go on. A lot of people hate on runescape 3 and it's justified. But it's really not a bad game anymore. If you haven't tried it out in years and your sick of spending 20-200 hours doing various tasks ranging from mild to ball crushingly monotonous in osrs; RS3 ironman might be a breath of fresh air to you. I've played mostly the same account from around 2006 to today and I was a hell of a lot closer to quitting when EOC dropped than I am now. I made an Ironman the day the gamemode dropped and I haven't looked back since.

[@LucaVaHolla]

we are too many levels deep. we cannot go back.

[@justsam7919]

We can only go deeper

[@neoncarrotgaming1128]

You never quit runescape, you only take extended breaks 🤪

[@jpietersen519]

I think mentioning that a fair few people just wanted pre-EOC servers is definitely a great argument. However, I do think at least half of the players were asking for 2006/7 servers for a reason. That reason being the removal of free trade and PVP. Ever since that update the playerbase had an antagonistic relationship with Jagex that lasted even a few years into OSRS. I think it makes sense that people upset with EOC chose a date before a similar infamous update.

[@Mike-om5rx]

As someone who was a "WoW Andy" for many years, I ended up trying OSRS (and Trailblazer League and RS3) because of your videos. I 100% stand by your statement that Runescape is an amazing game despite nostalgia. Thank you for making these videos and reactions.

[@psyjinx]

I didnt notice the "no shoes, feet locked" first time around lmao. So glad you paused there.

[@PunkRockGenius]

Introduced my friend to OSRS, all he could do was rave about how many things it did correctly where others failed. I'm positive it could do well if released today, and all the evidence points to that.

[@YoshipPL]

Decided to take a shot for every time Asmon says „I think it’s the same for WoW”, needless to say I’m gonna hold Jim accountable for this liver transplant

[@NastyNate18B]

Asmond is a good dude. They both have great points in this. I think overall I agree with nostalgia being a driving factor but I like jimmy more so Jim won.

[@jacksonjstewart]

Jontron still said it best with his chess analogy. Am I nostalgic for basketball? Or is it just a good game

[@CyanBlur]

Dude's got it backwards, Brighter Shores IS the nostalgia bait. It's the RS3 style and the Gower name being used to sell a completely different gameplay. Brighter Shores flopping only proves that nostalgia can't carry the weight OSRS is bearing.

[@Jxuptosae]

What? It doesn't prove that at all. It proves that a new IP appealing to nostalgia for another game isn't enough... because it isn't that game. I get what you are going for, but it's just not a real argument.

[@CyanBlur]

​@@Jxuptosae How does that not prove J1mmy right? He says nostalgia can't do the legwork that's putting OSRS in the top 3 MMOs, so it's not going to do the legwork for Brighter Shores. Asmon says Brighter Shores is Runescape without the nostalgia, I say it's a different game but with Runescape nostalgia.

[@austinglueck2554]

How is it a flop lol? It's not even out yet, it's barely even been announced lol.

[@CyanBlur]

@@austinglueck2554 I didn't say it did flop, I said how well it does reflects more on how much weight nostalgia can carry because currently that's the only angle they're marketing that game.