Why were there no Islamic Democracies? | History of the Middle East 1900-1914 - 11/21

[@JabzyJoe]

Stop data brokers from exposing your information. Go to my sponsor aura.com/jabzy to get a 14-day free trial and see if your personal information has been compromised.

[@darthparallax5207]

Theocracy: rule by a religious leader such as a messiah prophet or judge on the basis of divine inspiration or annointment Dictatorship: absolute rule by one man chosen by the people Oligarchy: rule by few such as 2 Consuls or co-Kings Democracy: essentially any body of 3 or more people is worth calling Democracy. Oligarchy devolves to Anarchy when the enemy exploits differences of opinion between the Consuls. Dictatorships are not a bad system for emergencies at the least and avoid many problems but require a great deal of trust. Dictators who enjoy the popular support of the people for a time may find themselves lionized either by self aggrandizement or by the people's choice to hero worship and transition more to theocratic like situations. The only significant weakness in dictatorships or theocracies is that nothing in the rules of the systems requires the government to admit it has made a mistake when it does. It's all up to pride vs humility vs discretion and sometimes the political situation can require an appearance of strength where honesty would endanger people and a willing leader is not at liberty to be transparent. This starts to corrupt the basis of the relationship with his subjects. There is no perfect system. Oligarchs might be the unusually worst system of all simply because they are so easy to play off each other you can easily force oligarchs to lose power and have to try a different system.

[@darthparallax5207]

Tried to reply to a different comment and it ended up here instead.

[@bas-tn3um]

because islam is counter opposed to democracy calling turkey a democracy is cute bud....

[@death-istic9586]

Love your videos!💚

[@bandera-12322]

When the European powers start wars and arm different sides, they arrange a crisis, interfere with the state and so on for 30 years. What kind of democracy are we talking about? Now there are 10 million refugees in Turkey, our European friends have dropped the lira by 90 percent as a gift and accuse Turkey of moving away from democracy, although they help everything in this. How can Erdogan not support the Palestinians when he has 10 million refugees in the country, going against it is dangerous for his country.

[@miladeskandari7]

Iranian here. Just wanted to say well done man. I'm amazed of how good your research is. A video on the jungle movement in the future could be really interesting.

[@SentMyOwnWay]

You and Hikma history have opened my mind to an entire facet of history I knew almost nothing about before. I’d love to find some reliable sources on indian and Chinese history as well.

[@firesports9458]

He has a video on china, from the end of the ming to the present, it was posted quite recently

[@Trump2024asw]

​@@firesports9458yes but I'd like to here it from someone Chinese actually considering Maos leap backward I'd like to hear it from a Taiwanese perspective.

[@kaiserwhence2468]

@@Trump2024asw eh Taiwanese aren't exactly taught that part history I believe ,

[@rohitghoshal]

The following channel has some videos on Indian history. Guy who makes these videos in an Indian American : www.youtube.com/@OddCompass/videos

[@anonnymousperson]

I've got to say it's really difficult to understand the big picture from these videos. If you asked me at the end of the video what happened during the video, I wouldn't be able to tell you. Even so, it's an amazing amount of effort put in to these videos, thank you for them all the same.

[@Argacyan]

I think the beginning of the Algerian war for independence is illustrative for why there was scant democracy up until the era of revolutions in the region: When WW2 ended, Algerians were sent home without their promised pensions or recognition. When Algerians in the country celebrated the end of the war with mentioning of the word liberty, as France just got its liberty back, the French colonial troops opened fire into the end-of-war celebrations. Algeria would eventually win freedom, but the question of why there was no democracy is soaked in blood. During the Cold War democratic revolutions in the area were always socialist & secular - which at time of the Cold War meant both islamic theocrats & the west (TM) did anything they could to stop democracy from happening.

[@ChavvyCommunist]

"Why did these countries we've been actively colonising and undermining their institutions for decades not become functioning liberal democracies?" "Dunno mate, it's probably because they're brown and Muslim." Complete bunch of smooth brain numpties this lot lmao

[@yucol5661]

I wonder if former colonies turning democratic wouldn’t be against the interests of stronger world powers. I mean, people think that Islamists took over the Middle East right after independence, but there’s more history than just a single transition.

[@عليياسر-ذ5ب]

France has paranoia

[@Intranetusa]

The Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan because the Afghan socialist revolution was the "wrong type" of socialism. Interestingly, the Soviets and China supported opposite sides of revolutions in Africa and Asia because of the clash between different socialist views.

[@عليياسر-ذ5ب]

@@Intranetusa Man, the Soviet Union and America were helping the Algerian revolutionaries against the French colonialists

[@89volvowithlazers]

honestly enjoying all your efforts and really digging in to Persian and Turkish stories- you put so much in one vid I get to go and look up the names of the folks and the events you mention, seriously comprehensive as far as I am concerned - thks for efforting

[@muhammadfadhilnurhafizwang7932]

Just a friendly reminder : Iran had a democratically-elected prime minister, and then, US and UK instigated a coup against him in 1953 that strengthened the monarch's authoritarian rule

[@balabanasireti]

Everyone knows

[@nouhowlmao2809]

@@balabanasireti Still good to repeat it fro every westernern blaming islam or iranians for their situation

[@JaelaOrdo]

@@nouhowlmao2809 yup

[@darragho6358]

@@balabanasireti not the Muslim dude in the comments section getting all the likes saying islam and democracy can't mix...

[@darragho6358]

@@nouhowlmao2809 that's true but we do need to be critical of they and Pakistan are doing now with large scale funding of destabilising terrorist organisations. Like Pakistan is a big reason Afghanistan wasn't able to recover after the USSR due to the Islamists funded by the Pakistani government inside of Afghanistan who then end up back in back in Pakistan destabilising Pakistan again.... There has been an element of many of these hard been in the area playing stupid games and winning stupid prizes which is not the west's fault. But I do agree that the west has a major blame for the whole mess. I just have personal problems with the tanky leftist who seem to be everywhere these days and never want to decry non western countries even when they should. Like supporting Russia with neorealist int relations theory

[@tommy-er6hh]

Some additional info: 1912 after Italy captured Libya coast & Rhodes and Dodecanese Islands, the Turks refused to quit. They pulled their troops into SE Asia Minor is expectations of an invasion by Italy. The Italians wanted the war to end, so they talked to their relative, the King of Montenegro. He declared war, followed by all the other Balkan Nations who were trying to grab territory before the others. The next day, the Ottoman Turks made peace with Italy. Of course, since the bulk of the Turk army was way out of position, the Balkan Turk territories were torn apart. But the Balkan countries did not get to keep what they gained, because Italy, England and Austro-Hungary stopped Serbia and Bulgaria from getting ports, rearranging the peace territory grab. This re-arraigning led to the 2nd Balkan wars in 1913, where Turk rejoined and reconquered some of Bulgaria. (as did Serbia, Romania and Greece also.) BTW, in 1914 the British conquered independent Darfur Muslim sultanate, which had been officially a vassal of Ottomans. It was merged into Sudan, which is why the Sudanese attacked Darfur in the 2003-2010. Darfur during WWI rebelled 1915, but was defeated by 1917 and back in British hands.

[@DukeofTxtspeak]

"The British merged darfur with Sudan in 1914. That's why Sudan attacked Darfur in 2003" That's a bit of a jump there buddy. What happened in the like 90 years between? Not that British actions had no bearing but there is not a single straight line from British interference in 1914 to genocide in 2003, other things happened in the middle.

[@tommy-er6hh]

@@DukeofTxtspeak The Dur people of Darfur are not Sudanese, by jamming them together caused friction, just like South Sudan. Friction led to rebellion, which led to genocide.

[@MH-jg6vk]

@@tommy-er6hhyou completely overlooked the Albanian revolt of 1912 which was decisive in alarming the Balkan league to act, before an autonomous Albania could consolidate. The successes of the Albanians (who were more or less disorganised) not only brought down the young Turk cabinet in 1912 (just before the Balkan wars began) but it meant the Turk was all but dead

[@tommy-er6hh]

@@MH-jg6vk Thanks for the addition

[@herypineda255]

tank u brother, that i didnt know

[@Charlie-Em]

I love Jabzy joints

[@rursus8354]

Sounds like the collapse of an empire over a land that wasn't really enough fertile/taxable to keep it.

[@zhcultivator]

almost as if Georgist policies should have been implemented

[@binderchannel9454]

Persia is proud of having the first parliment and constitution in Asia prior to Turks, Japanese chinese and others.

[@zhcultivator]

I think Pan-Islamism would most likely have been the best historical, geopolitical, economic and cultural course for the Middle East (from the options given or options available): especially a Pan-Islamic Electoral Autocratic* superstate of Middle-Eastern cooperation like the Proposed "European Federation" or Proposed "East African Federation" maybe...(reinforced* by Corporatist social class* collaboration e.g. with a possible ''Middle-eastern Corporatist Parliament'').

[@zhcultivator]

Well, after reading some comments it would seem that some prefer theocracy after all (surprise, surprise). But anyways, interesting video.

[@ericfilipiachado820]

Love the content man, but give me the sources. I want to learn more😢

[@jantexgaming7640]

Brilliant content. Thanks

[@ismailsafavi1611]

Azerbaijan was the first Democratic and Secular Muslim Republic who instantly as soon as we got independent gave women voting rights all of this happened in 1918 though also with Operas and Uni's and Ataturk also took inspiration from our First Constitution

[@MaximillianPushker]

It’s also interesting too because Azerbaijan is probably the only Muslim country that’s actually kind of friendly to Jews.

[@rimelesnel1678]

very based

[@memejutsu]

thats because most are extremely liberal or atheists

[@bobdollaz3391]

As long as those residing in the Caucasus Tatar State aren't Armenians or Assyrians!

[@bobdollaz3391]

Azerbaijan loves Israel and Israel loves supporting Muslim genocides against Christians (Armenians)!

[@fjoergyn]

That would mean there could be free speech, free speech means lesser control.

[@evanlandry7320]

They don't like when they're people are allowed to think

[@100milliongamesandmore9]

Keep yapping, democracy destroys society kid, what you view as the epitome of effective government isn't necessarily so

[@fernit0505]

Ok, but can we talk about how hard the emblem of the Special Organization hits?

[@xanoblade1864]

Bro these bots immditatly... how anoying

[@JabzyJoe]

Who is to say they're bots? Maybe women who like to flaunt their arses also enjoy 45 mins of early 20th century history. Haha, don't be so quick to judge!

[@darragho6358]

Ssshhh don't let anyone know the bots are jabzy trying to increase engagement so soon everyone's news feed will be filled with 45 minute videos on early 20th century history. It's all part of his great plan to take over..... Ooohhh no I've said too much

[@Game_Hero]

@@JabzyJoe lol

[@joecahill2203]

time to listen while playing EU4

[@jakedavidheilemann1208]

Ardabil campaign time

[@АлексейТабаков-ы8в]

Or Victoria 2/3

[@memejutsu]

real

[@jason4275]

_Aura? but they collect data, they say they collect a limited amount of information, cookies, VPN and your contacts information, what guarantees do we have that aura won't sell their users data if they are bought or merger, are they data harvesting all users, how would we know, what guarantees do they have that they won't sell their customers data, because their policy say they don't share information with third parties, but we all know their are hundred's of loopholes around this policy._

[@malikshabazz2065]

great stuff!

[@Ali-bu6lo]

Mirza Kuchik Khan's movement was started during WWI not in the civil war against the authoritarian Mohammadali Shah in 1907. Also his government was called "Republic of Persia" and later "Persian Soviet Socialist Republic", and he had intentions of conquering the capital.

[@schoolofgrowthhacking]

Türkiye is a republic though... Malaysia too is a democracy

[@giansideros]

Some might argue that Turkey (the English word for Türkiye like Italy is for Italia) is the only one that counts out of your examples because it came from within as opposed to out of independence from a Western Colonial Power.

[@Naderium]

​@@giansiderosIf your ideology is true, then democracy should fall apart because it's Muslims who govern and make up the majority of Malaysia, Indonesia, Senegal or Kosovo. The latter (Kosovo) would also qualify as an example of a Muslim democracy by your criteria as they fought for their independence in 2008.

[@janarchivell]

are you active on Patreon? I'm thinking about becoming a patron but I wanna make sure. thx

[@JabzyJoe]

I have a patreon... wouldn't say I'm active though

[@janarchivell]

@@JabzyJoe in the 14 dollar option where people can request you something, would it be possible to request the sources from your videos to check them out? it'd be super interesting

[@kensearle4451]

@@janarchivell I always find with Jabzy (and several of the very insightful BTL comments) that the best thing to do is to try and source them yourself. You get a lot more information than he's provided, and (being a bit of a nerd) it's kind of fun!

[@nathanpangilinan4397]

17:49 It was as if he had a crystal ball and could see what Saudi Arabia and its brand of Islam would do to both the world and the reputation of Islam.

[@yaldabaoth2]

Public, free and mandatory education or rather the lack thereof, that's why.

[@EsfandiarNokhodaki]

First Democracy Movement in Asia and Islamic World Was Iran's Constitutional Revolution 1906 - 1911 The Iranian monarchy was changed to a constitutional monarchy and the Iranian parliament was established in 1906 and Iran became a semi democratic country !!!

[@suhelmallick]

congraulations!. but now you have regressed under the ayatollah mulah regime

[@Jesse_Dawg]

I love you Jabzy. Please more videos

[@Game_Hero]

Great video. Would have loved a bit more info on the macedonian independence movement, but I guess this falls outside the coverage of your video. Would also love to see where the direct quotes come from, their text of origin seem deeply interesting, as many people in the comments repeatedly say. No need for sources for everything if that's too much work like you said with the mixing of multiple ones, but the direct quotes at the very least would be easy since you take them from somewhere and copy-paste. It's simply by desire to share your passion by reading the amazing same stuff you do.

[@ilyapolishuk5126]

There are many inaccuracies. For example, the Rhodos and the surrounding islands were not given to Italy, but were temporarily transferred as a guarantee of ending resistance in Tripolitania and Cyrenaica.

[@christophercyr1460]

Source?

[@Artanis5]

Literally the treaty of Ouchy

[@christianweibrecht6555]

You could use pieces of this series to make a series detailing for lead up to be Armenian genocide

[@theultimateartist4153]

You should also touch on the Middle Eastern Oligarchy which control gangs in Haiti

[@Naderium]

Can you cook a bit about what you mean

[@theultimateartist4153]

@@Naderium Haiti is ran by a Brutal Oligarchy of Middle Eastern business men who own the country completely and one Je-wish business man. They fund gangs and have ownership over the energy sector and the weapons,and distribute them to street thugs.

[@mohamito]

Will you talk abour the Tripolitanian Republic in the next episode? They were a republic in Libya led by Sliman Baruni, a Nafusi Amazigh.

[@JabzyJoe]

Will be in a couple episodes

[@aminyt8742]

History of Iran is full of hopelessness. Even today, I am ashamed to live in this country. Seeing how could it have been.

[@gunterxvoices4101]

I understand completely how you feel. I know the Iranian community in tbe US is far different from Iran. As a Jew, I respect you fellows, and genuinely wish the best for you. We have a long-tied history, and it is increasingly sad to see this strife between both of us. I think that the future is not yet set, and we will live together in one form or another. Best of days, my friend.

[@BilboBaggins236]

My Iranian friends living here in the Netherlands are all very politically active and demonstrate a lot for the freedom of the Iranian people. I wish you all the best of luck

[@solisgod]

the worst thing that happened to iran was the name change from persia into iran

[@KhosrowSassani]

⁠@@solisgodno, both Persia and Iran, meaning land of the Aryans, are great names

[@KhosrowSassani]

Ya Khoda how can you be ashamed? With such great history, culture, geography, language? You should be ashamed of yourself for even saying that

[@life.9251]

Does anyone know the song he uses in the background?

[@mefisto05s.20]

Because they are both fundamentally different and opposite tools.

[@mavsfanforever7919]

Indonesia is sort of a democracy

[@johnmcdonald9295]

Democracy is as real as God.

[@Light_spot_]

Democracy was never a " middle eastern " thing ,nor was it a Greek thing , besides Athens none of those other Hellenic kingdoms such as Sparta, Macedonia etc were democractic or republicans, they were all Monarchs as the Persian empire. Personally im against democracy , its just a way for lobbyists to sneak in and serve their masters agenda .

[@hiddendragon415]

Any Democracy with it's flaws is still better than the alternative, a Despot regime that oppresses the people and often invades other nations to distract the people that they are living in a oppressive regime.

[@bendover6272]

without democracy theres no sneakiness or obligatory concessions to the masses its just straight up oppression and terror by the state a instead of having to atleast partially comply to the will of the people.

[@عليياسر-ف4ن9ك]

​@bendoveAmerica: Isn't that what I do? 😂😂😂😂😂😂r6272

[@lukearts2954]

I stumbled upon this series, and I'm binging it now. What a gem!! This series about the Middle East gives such a treasure of background knowledge that sheds a whole different light on the present conflicts... (unfortunately it also confirms the often prohibited prejudice that there's something inherently wrong with the tribal culture of Islamic peoples. Constant influence from foreign power-hungry bodies didn't help one bit, of course...)

[@Doomer_Optimist]

Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan, Azerbaijan, and probably more all practice democracy. Tunisia attempted it but is currently backsliding hard, and even Iran has a lot of democratic elements in its government. So the title to this video is kind of weird.

[@JabzyJoe]

All of those nations weren't nations in the period discussed.

[@fat4eyes]

​@@JabzyJoetell that to all the other comments on your video.

[@Doomer_Optimist]

@@JabzyJoe Ah I see. I read the title as present tense instead of past tense at first so that's what confused me.

[@Tespri]

Because Muslims view muhammed as example how to live life and he was a dictator. Brutal one at that.

[@omermanjo7459]

Shut your ignorant mouth.

[@sonuncu203]

Can you include a turkish point of view about 1915 in your next video if i may ask? I want to submit my input.

[@thedude1165]

It is good that you made this But please use different perspectives on a subject Iran's progress towards democracy was massively retarded by British and russians Radicalizing the people leading to a radical republic which is all but republic People were open to change But a change that strengthen the iran is bad for business Russians didn't use their army to stop the heat in iran they did to crush the parliament Qajars were weak usable pawns I know that people are responsible for their fate But the British and russians stomped Iran anytime we were on a path to growth

[@forgotten1s]

No chapters is anti viewer

[@ojberrettaberretta5314]

why arent there still none?

[@Rynewulf]

There are many, just with an iffy designation as democracies vs dictatorships. Several of the North, East and West African countries are both republics and Islamic along with Albania, Pakistan and Indonesia

[@ojberrettaberretta5314]

albania is a multireligious state 40%christians 60%muslim ,beside them bosnia and kosovo there are 0 actual democracies that upheld human rights voter rights minority rights(kosovo already having issues securing their serb minority rights) and any other democratic standard,thats why you couldnt name one....islam does not promote or seem to be compatible with democracy for now... @@Rynewulf

[@Naderium]

​@@ojberrettaberretta5314 Is Albania not majority Muslim? Also what Serb minority? The Serbs are rebels.

[@Naderium]

​@@ojberrettaberretta5314Islam is definitely compatible with democracy. The Sahaba, companions of the Prophet of Allah, voted on laws and the successor of the Prophet was not his son, but a democratically elected companion, in fact his son wasn't elected till 3 Caliphs had passed.

[@Aksarallah]

​@@Naderium that's not democracy. Democracy has every citizen participating in the election of leaders. And everyone has equal value in vote. That is even a well educated scholar in islam and an uneducated pagan had same value in vote.

[@bufongodemdabae308]

If you know anything about Islam, it’s not going to take a 43 minute video to explain why there are no Islamic democracies

[@aimansafwan1997]

That's a subtle way of suggesting bigotry. Yeah , that speaks of racism and hate speech.

[@rockynanach]

Yet they flood anglo celtic lands. Leave europe to the white indigenous peoples. Go to Arabia

[@travisdean6063]

"unique"

[@danielnigel6920]

Good video with a very bad title

[@Roronoa79]

I feel like you saw more de jure or de facto Christian democracies at this time was in part because of those Christian country's relative religious homogeneity. Western Europe and its democratic settler colonies were for most of history much more religiously homogenous than the Islamic world. Western nations rather quickly consolidated around centralized states made up of a strong majority of a single nationality often with a vast majority practicing the same denomination of Christianity. In most polities in the Middle East and Maghreb, there was far more ethnic and religious diversity, and people of varied ethnicities including non-Christians held positions of influence throughout government and society. In 19th century Europe, it is going to be easier to get the population to support democracy if it is a Christian democracy; and it is going to be easier to get the population to support Christian democracy, because there are relatively few non-Christians to object. In the Islamic world, it is going to be easier to get the population to support democracy if it is an Islamic democracy; but there are far more non-Muslims around who would object to a democracy that was explicitly not of their faith. Islamic democracy, like Christian democracy, always finds itself pulled between those who focus on the religious aspect of that government model more than the egalitarian aspect of it. You see this in conflicts within western Christian Democrat parties, and in the relations between liberal and conservative parties in Islamic republics. Religious democracy is something of a contradiction, because the preferential treatment of one religion goes against the egalitarianism that democracy is predicated on. First among equals is never really equal, and in a religious democracy calls for more religious equality can be accused of inciting hatred of that democracy's nominal religion. People from the west (inb4 ppl complain: I'm American) who never shut up about how secular they are are often hesitant to acknowledge how much their own countries are and were de-facto Christian democracies whose existence was built around entrenching white (and atheist) Christian power over non-white non-Christians. Ask around in any "secular" democracy and you will find no shortage of quite mainstream conservatives and even centrists who think their country should remain white, Christian majority or have a government guided by explicitly Christian principles. Dennis Prager, of Prager U infamy, is an example of a conservative Jewish American who has stated his belief that Christian whites deserve to continue to dominate American society and government because of their supposed moral superiority. Even those who call for a more secular democracy are still hesitant to go from explicitly white Christian democracies to democracies that are not built around the needs of white Christians or atheists. Huge swaths of even western liberals and the far left will still sh*t on Islam every bit as much as conservative nationalists because Islam is seen as a spooky radical anti-freedom anti-secular superstition that brings dangerous brown people into pure white Westlandia. But this is just one factor I see, which should in no way draw attention away from how republics arose or almost arose in the regions only to constantly be undermined by (often western) powers. And lest we forget how as a whole democracy remains in the minority in western political history. Ironically, the western nationalist who denounces Islam as anti-equality and anti-democracy is the same western nationalist who thinks equality is stupid and democracy is stupid unless (insert your western ethno-religious group here) is in charge.

[@baneofbanes]

America is hardly homogenous and it never has been, religiously or otherwise. Same goes for Western Europe. That’s why freedom of religion is a core tenet of democratic societies.

[@ablazedguy]

So Islam violently conquered a lot of different people and you call it being diverse? Were the British diverse because of their Empire, then, or was their boot simply on many different heads? Were muslim slavers more diverse because they hunted white women too? Was America diverse because of African slaves?

[@ablazedguy]

@Theobserver6897 lol mate the history didn't start after ww2, London was overwhelmingly filled with white British people, they grew big because they got rich off of all those subjugated nations, would you care to mention how much political power Indians had in the British empire? How about the how the Ottomans treated people in the Balkans? So using your logic, if Americans invaded, I dunno, Vietnam, and brought back a million slaves, US would suddenly become more diverse, enriched by vietnamese culture and therefore a better nation? Or is maybe diversity not linked to how many people you subjugate but integrate? Do you have any idea how many diverse nations completely disappeared after being conquered and their culture erased and replaced?

[@Uncle_Fred]

A lot of this explicitly racist and religious thinking has evaporated in the West, especially in Northern Europe. Christianity has become a minority faith in many Western countries and a lot of the tribalism and bigatory baggage has shifted to nationalist and secular politicians. Only in the US and parts of Eastern and southern Europe does Christianity still play a meaningful force in politics.

[@zhcultivator]

lol true

[@parthiaball]

You should do a video all about Rojava, the most based country the Middle East (and possibly the world) has ever seen, and I am not joking.

[@DutchMaster6]

Islam mostly

[@100milliongamesandmore9]

Because democracy is a cancer kid, who wants that shit ?

[@metrokentenerjiteknoloji6313]

Turks would never fight for Arabs. because they have lawrence💥💥💥💫

[@igorlopes7589]

Islamic democracies would have to give equal rights to dhimmi and to not allow the application of sharia. Besides, the democratic idea of self determination would mean peoples like the assyrians deserved autonomy or even independence.

[@Naderium]

How is Sharia undemocratic exactly?

[@igorlopes7589]

@@Naderium Well, lets begin with the wonderful thing sharia does to apostates :) Its like having the Inquisition in the 21st century while pretending to be more enlightened than christians and claiming to be "the religion of peace"

[@عليياسر-ف4ن9ك]

​@@igorlopes7589Stupid barbarian

[@ridhimalifestyle100]

Islam and democracy do not mix

[@Mana-xd2tp]

Islam and The West do not mix

[@ziyadrgb9584]

What is democracy first to know how it works and how islam work

[@ridhimalifestyle100]

@@ziyadrgb9584 choosing a leader by popular vote

[@ridhimalifestyle100]

@ziyadrgb9584 but Islam appoints caliph

[@ziyadrgb9584]

@@ridhimalifestyle100 if you are talking about Rashidun caliphate everyone want them to become caliphs(sahaba) but ummayad and Abbasid yeah agreed they took control with power

[@Pike737]

Pakistan is a great and thriving Islamic democracy.

[@miguelbonifacio9038]

Lol

[@exit-bag]

🤣🤣 beggers

[@fredbloggs5902]

You’re utterly clueless.

[@bloodfiredrake7259]

I wouldn't say that lok

[@موسى_7]

Imran Khan would disagree

[@greekcomenterperson446]

first human

[@thedukeofswellington1827]

Because some places were never supposed to be democracies...as much as we refuse to.accept.that

[@nobody22227]

because its an oxymoron

[@memejutsu]

lol

[@gamept571]

You are right about Islam

[@Gadjjo22]

12:52 “Islamism” is incredibly fun to say.

[@Vladimirprotein09]

I feel so sad at the loss of ottoman empire

[@FantasticGreek]

wtf are there profile pictures of some people

[@greekcomenterperson446]

Botakia

[@roflomaozedong]

I know one islamic democracy : tunisia

[@ziyadrgb9584]

Yes but it Failed now Tunisia is in economic crisis and there's another Islamic democracy

[@عليياسر-ف4ن9ك]

​@@ziyadrgb9584America: Like us 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@KangaKucha]

At least they did not have European Imperialism. Ottoman, while it was in decline, was an imperial empire, yet Britain and/or Russia could have taken Persia. It was spilt into 2 shepre (sp?) of influences, yet could have been a colony overall.

[@SethTheOrigin]

They would of been blessed to have been under the auspices of European modernization, instead today they languish in superstition and continuing decline

[@balabanasireti]

Ah yes, always blaming others instead of trying to fix things

[@Adam-wg2rf]

The Ottomans dried more then once to take over Persia but or they faild or they only was in the turkis shepre for a sort while, and what you see "imperialism" as, for it does not have clear shape, arabs had slaves from much earlier then europe, when Egypt got free from their Ottoman overlords, they tried to make their own power shepre and tried to kick out all the the none Egyptsens only to not long after get annex by the British empire, so may i ask you what is imperialism ?

[@KangaKucha]

@@Adam-wg2rf Geography, Persia/Iran being a platform (hope I got that right or close) is difficult to invade especially if from Iraq is a river base assuming its from there. The rest atm is hard for my reply. Sorry it's morning in Australia and I'm not 100% until 11am. But another word is colonisation which is various. It can be a puppet state to a settlement.

[@KangaKucha]

@@balabanasireti exsize me? Lol

[@nourerrahmanebrahmia4035]

The regency of Algiers was a military republic though or a stratocracy

[@rauhau_]

:)

[@jonathanwilliams1065]

There are some islamoc democracies and the number depends on how you define it but under every definition you have Iran and maybe Iraq (Iraq might be secular I’m not sure) The Iranian political system is everything you’d expect if radical Islam and the United States had a baby, and it’s basically checks and balances on steroids. While their foreign policy is decided by an autocratic supreme leader, their domestic policy is decided by a variety of democratic bodies, and they are not fotbshow and the president has even been able to influence the supreme leader’s foreign policy with moderate presidents even managing to get the US and Iran on the same side at times, most notably during the battle of Herat. The west likes to think that all peoples are the same and that international problems are always the fault of a single person in power but that is not true

[@alphamikeomega5728]

The religious leaders have the right to approve or ban candidates before elections.

[@yucol5661]

People over simplify. Most people and even people who do research or are history buffs over simplify their view of their own country, worse if it’s other countries, and it’s basically a caricature if it’s a far off isolated country like Iran. People don’t get news headlines about Iran politics, sure it’s unreasonable to be experts on every country. But that’s no excuse to assume that our own limited view of a country is good enough to form opinions off

[@Ali-bu6lo]

I'm sorry, I'm Iranian living in Iran and what you say is completely wrong. Almost everything is controlled by the supreme leader, he even dictates his opinions on very minor things.

[@nurulhudavijapurwala4936]

​@@Ali-bu6losister i give you suggetion , Learn to live in the society because i am Hindu from India and i know your pain , but you get some freedom in this regime but if theres democracy establish and iran became non Muslim country then your neighbour killed iran because of you are non Islamic means Taliban , iraq and Pakistan all have common sense things redical Islam

[@Ali-bu6lo]

@@nurulhudavijapurwala4936 First of all, I'm a man so no "sister".😅 Second of all, the current regime doesn't compromise on anything so getting any freedom or economic prosperity is not possible. Third of all, Iran is hard to invade, the fact that with all the shit going on, the US and Israel haven't invaded us yet shows it's not easy. Iraq couldn't even conquer one Iranian province when it was powerful, rich and backed by many countries, how they can do us any harm now that they are a mostly failed state? Afghanistan under the Taliban is also a failed state and Pakistan isn't far from it. They all have massive issues and would just ignore Iran if we don't bother them.

[@BuchholzerIn1]

This video was chaos and didn’t answer the question why Islamic countries didn’t develop democracies at all

[@hokton8555]

why does Taj al Saltaneh have a moustache

[@af8828]

I don't mean to destroy whatever conclusions you draw at the end of this series, but "democracy" has become a word as empty and meaningless as "freedom". I'm going to assume in the finale you'll presuppose some vague form of democracy as the "default" or "desirable" state of governance. I'm also going to assume there will be a total lack of critical analysis of the claim that the so called "liberal" "democracies" have *actual* democratic mechanisms, or that contemporary "democracy" is just: a) political theatre put in place to entertain the masses while every so-called western "democracy" is functionally a plutocracy controlled entirely by oligarchs, or politicians oligarchs have lobbied b) called "democracy" by a white supremacist apparatus to falsify a link with ancient greek civilization, which in turn provides the liberal democracies civilizational "legitimacy" (despite the connection between them and ancient greece being completely fabricated) With that said, I do, however, appreciate the stage you're setting by providing historical context :). I think a) there are very few places today which can even be considered semi-democratic (i.e., in which the people have the ability to influence political, but also (arguably more) importantly, economic decision-making). The history you're going over highlights the difficulty in creating democratic systems when you're resisting the colonial boot, or in the contemporary case, besieged by the imperial core. Taking China or Iran as examples, even if they wanted to do the most "ideal" democracy we colloquially think of when we think of the term "democracy", it would be impossible, because the moment they did, it would leave them impervious to imperialist destabilization efforts (think of the cold war period when the CIA was at it's peak power and the sheer number of coups, etc. which were orchestrated worldwide). Besides, I think a place like China, despite being authoritarian, is still more democratic where it counts. I hope the context I've provided negates the seeming contradiction in these two terms. As the saying goes: "In the US, you can change parties, but not policy. In China, you cannot change parties, but you can change policy.

[@JabzyJoe]

I don't really draw conclusions. More just make long arse videos and try to come up with some video title to best describe a period.

[@af8828]

@@stereomachine THATS your conclusion from my post LMAOO??

[@af8828]

@@JabzyJoe yeah I get it, and hope the titles help increase your reach. I thought you were gonna try tying the series witha conclusion, but guess not. Anyways the analogy I use is someone seeing their first vehicle, say, a sports car. They think thats the best type of vehicle, so they measure every other vehicle against it. Eventually they see an SUV, and compare it using their criteria for what makes a sportscar "good". They notice the SUV has horrible acceleration, would roll over when cornering, etc., so they conclude it's a horrible, undesirable vehicle. Obviously that's not the case - the SUV is just *different*. Its design is the product of a different set of circumstances, and as such serves a different purpose. Different modes of governance are like different types of vehicles. Fundamentally they share some values (eg. being a method of transportation), but measuring one using the criteria of the other without the background will always lead to an inherently flawed, biased conclusion on the other. I'm happy you're providing that background :)

[@lukaswilhelm9290]

As the saying goes: "democracy is the least worst option compare to the others.

[@tenanaciouz]

@@lukaswilhelm9290 because god forbid the system change or reform or something take it's place

[@hnbgnjhg]

910th viewer of this vid.

[@BiggestCorvid]

1148 reporting in 🫡

[@claytonporter7878]

Information

[@BenBen-bi5vn]

Because it's an evil cult?

[@ssthanatosking6031]

Democrazy is

[@emperoroak7331]

Islamic and Democracy are just like ketchup and shawarma 😂, why are you comparing to these two

[@ziyadrgb9584]

Islamic democracy is a mix of technocracy and old democracy like in the Roman council or Carthaginian council but with the presence of laws (sharia) who decide and can help deciding of rules or state politics

[@JaelaOrdo]

Because we recognize democracy doesn’t work. And people recognized this in ancient times as well, problem is the west refuses to ever learn from history and often repeats the exact same mistakes. “Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme liberty.” - Plato

[@juanma9511]

still better than an averege muslim theocracy

[@horstnietzsche1923]

"Doesn't work" meanwhile the west is the most powerful group in the world and the rich Islamic nations buy our weapons because they can't make anything nearly as nice. And our technology is fundamental to your way of life now. But yeah Doesn't work.😂

[@danielogats]

So this is why Muslims immigrate to the West, to democracies, and not the other way around? Lol. You are using the Internet, a democratic invention.

[@abdimalikelmi729]

"democracy doesent work", explain why our world for the past 200 hundred years has been dominated by countries with parliments lol

[@tenanaciouz]

@@juanma9511 "I might be drinking piss but at least I'm not eating shit!" that's what you sound like

[@jhoughjr1]

Because democracy is highly overrated.

[@silentsoup8857]

Informative video, but the premise is wrong, the very notion of democracy came from the Muslim World. Now if you mean liberal democracy, based on the philosophy of Hobbs, that's a different question, but a stupid one, because it's a flawed system.

[@ChavvyCommunist]

Nah it's absurd to attribute the idea of democracy to any specific society. It's literally just the default state of being for a highly communal and social animal like humans. Certain types of democracy definitely did originate in certain places with their own intellectual traditions, but democracy categorically doesn't belong to any single culture or population.

[@silentsoup8857]

@@ChavvyCommunist yeah sure, I can respect that take, but the point of my comment was to go against the notion that Muslim societies are ideologically opposed to or fated against democracy somehow.

[@ChavvyCommunist]

@@silentsoup8857 Oh I agree with that. It's a shitty title.

[@cucurucu753]

Answer is simple: because of islam.

[@Game_Hero]

answer is even more simple : homo sapiens psychology