Jack of Savannah, Master of None

[@EGRJ]

Who's that in the thumbnail? I don't recognize the....music video?

[@SacredCowShipyards]

Ah, you're one of today's 10,000: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXesfquIiqath5o They did a whole series of these.

[@ledocteur7701]

@@SacredCowShipyards This is amazing, truly a Savannah master on wheels !

[@fix0the0spade]

@@SacredCowShipyards Christ on a bike those adverts are 20 years old. Thank you for taking my remaining feelings of youth and crushing them into a cube.

[@quietdignityandgrace]

Minivan Sports Car... yup that's a hovercraft.

[@LaKrinn666]

Mazda Comercial

[@thestabbybrit4798]

On a similar note, I have conditioned my friends to experience bowel loosening terror at the sight of the Raven. Not because of what it can do, but because of the artillery platforms whose munitions are guided by it's laser designator.

[@bthsr7113]

Or its NARC.

[@rifleman2c997]

Quote the raven: Arrow IV

[@ElMagico2006]

And if you don’t have artillery, a Raven and an Archer are the best of friends.

[@ChefSpinney]

Quoth the Raven, "Arrow IV"

[@bthsr7113]

@@ElMagico2006 The Archer IS an artillery mech, just not a HEAVY artillery mech.

[@mattwilliams8984]

1 c-bill is equal to the cost to transmit one page of plaintext. Images cost more. And one c-bill is between 5-10 USD, depending on setting era, and IRL current year.

[@xxxlonewolf49]

Bi-Pedal works when they are used in human size so all the same human gear still works. Making them LARGE is just because WE CAN.

[@TheRealMirCat]

Exosquad was an awesome cartoon.

[@xxxlonewolf49]

@TheRealMirCat It was

[@xxxlonewolf49]

@TheRealMirCat also, most of them were more power armor

[@markfergerson2145]

Making them large just makes them better targets. I mean, a Ma-carried missile can one-shot a tank. Stand that tank up on legs so that the hull is vertical and… you get the picture. Sorry, but no nation/corporation/other entity that has a military that will ever be able to afford to build them will ever actually do it.

[@xxxlonewolf49]

@markfergerson2145 All "mech" tech is improved beyond basic vehicle tech, it has to be to work at larger scale. Faster in some way, able to move like a human at the size would be flexible for many uses.

[@MisterHavoc]

The first mistake in those trials was using the Locust in a scout vs scout fight. Everyone knows the Lyrans and House Steiner use 4 Atlas Assault mechs for their scouting forces. When you blow up the HPG uplink and kill everyone that sees you, you are very stealthy.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

If there was no one to tell on you, you were never there.

[@RipRoaringGarage]

the equivalent of the rusty old Toyota Hilux with a 50 cal in the bed.

[@KillerOrca]

Well, not quite, as The Space Hilux With a 50 Cal In The Bed is actually something you can run on the tabletop. The Taurian Concordat likes them rather a lot actually. Especially the ones with an RL/5 pod strapped to the back.

[@fix0the0spade]

These little bastards are what the Clan Medium Pulse Laser and targeting computer were born for. Oh you're fast Mr Blakist? I HAVE -2 TO HIT! WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW HOVERCRAFT DRIVER?

[@emeryhenry1849]

Ok, but what is the BV cost difference? It's probably not one Savannah master, it's several.

[@mathewkelly9968]

You should have -3 to hit

[@sep0319]

@@fix0the0spade hmmm what are the assumptions here? I was under the impression that it was Mech BV vs BV in Savannah Masters... Btw does your math include modifiers for secondary targeting (left/right arc modifiers)... (Assuming they are also in your firing arc)...

[@nbsmith100]

@@emeryhenry1849 several multiplied a few times....

[@bthsr7113]

The big appeal of the reflective armor on the Savannah Master is in resisting pulse lasers specifically. Pulse Lasers are more likely to hit targets than basically any other direct fire weapon in general use (especially if augmented with a targeting computer and/or improved targeting quirk). One of the very few ways to blunt your survivability through speed, and you can ignore half the damage.

[@tarmaque]

Maintenance eh? So that's going to require an E7 or E8 Chief Petty Officer and a bunch of larval Petty Officers working up a storm for days or even weeks. While I, as the pilot, can engage in said amount of time in Rest and Retraining in a bunk somewhere out of sight and mind.

[@alfredkugler3043]

You missed a little factoid in your comparison between the Savannah Master and the Dire Wolf. For the price of one Dire Wolf, you don't get 16 Savannah Masters, but 320. And those 𝙘𝙚𝙧𝙩𝙖𝙞𝙣𝙡𝙮 can ruin a Dire Wolf's day.

[@sep0319]

320 x 5 = 1,600 damage - so yes it will take down that Direwolf.. it will take time though.

[@markfergerson2145]

@@sep0319That’s time the Dire Wolf won’t be doing anything else though. Whatever its mission was won’t be accomplished not just because it was eaten by a relative swarm of ants, but because it took that long to be eaten.

[@KillerOrca]

@@markfergerson2145 Especially if its getting piloted by a Clanner, who will get very mad VERY fast at the "degra freebirth trashbag riders" and probably dump most of their ammo and heat into trying to kill them.

[@sep0319]

@@markfergerson2145 we actually played this scenario... It was painfully tedious... oh dang it... I remeber now - they dont have to shoot - what is the charging damage for the SM?

[@mjbull5156]

"The cost of your machine is worth a bit under three regiments of those. Who do you think wins that battle of attrition." How many attack waves would you need to take on a Dire Wolf effectively (assuming no kamikaze attacks)?

[@CowCommando]

Yeah it's great right up to when you encounter its secret weakness, stairs. I mean rough terrain . . . or trees . . . or slopes . . . or urban environments where you can't draw long straight lines . . . or anything other than huge stretches of flat, level, open terrain where it can actually utilize all that speed. Everywhere else, not so much.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

Largely depends on how effective its propulsion system is.

[@chrisbaker8533]

Comstar=Space AT&T. Back in the day when i played BT a bit more seriously, i got banned from a local shop's tournaments. It turns out, people who have no concept of tactics really don't like it when you decimate their big stompy mechs(including assault class) with tanks and/or helicopters...in the first round. Nitpick. Regarding the "Are 16 savanah masters going to bring down a dire wolf(daishi for the freebirth scum)?." The correct answer is, the DW is scrap in as little as one round. A medium laser does 5 damage, 16 of them does 80 damage. Total armor points on a dire wolf is 304, with the heaviest being the front center torso at 47pts, and Rear R/L torso's having 10 per. Under basic rules, the SM is going to need an 8+ to hit(4 gunnery, +2 for running(SM), +2 for target moving 5-6 hexes(DW runs max)) with no intervening terrain. At the absolute minimum, and with the dice gods in your corner, you can kill the DW in as little as 3 hits, if you hit the head(12pts total). A bit more realistic, would be 6 hits to the rear torso armor, with 2 critical hits, one being an ammo explosion, which kills two engine slots, and the third hitting another engine slot. Without criticals, 7 hits(35 damage vs 10 points of armor and 21 internal) per left and right torso, or 9 to the rear center torso. From the front, you could hole the center torso with all 16 hitting it, as it's 78 total damage(47 armor, 31 internal) Not too surprising this got banned from certain tournament play. In regards to the dire wolf hitting the savannah's, it's not that hard with it's pulse lasers. Under the FASA rules, with no intervening terrain, it's also an 8 to hit(4 gunnery, +2 for running(DW), +4 target moved 10+hexes(SM), -2 for pulse lasers). Two hits to the front(10 pts armor) and it's toast, with just one required for the sides(6 pts each) or rear(2 pts) as it only has one internal per location and clan medium pulse lasers do 7pts per hit. Just need to survive for 16 rounds to take them all out. 8 if you shoot at 2 and hit per round, but the second is going to require a 9 to hit for secondary target. FASA's Maximum tech and later rules revisions change this to a 9 and 10 to hit for the SM moving 18-24 hexes. Everything else is going to be in the 10-11(11-12 for secondary) to hit range, depending on rules set. If you really want to have some fun, look up the old combat values(fasa tactical handbook) for the savannah master and dire wolf. That dire wolf is screwed if you field equivalent values.

[@Hengebobs]

In TT Battletech, you can field a combined arms force with jump jets, heli-gunships, artillery, MLRS vehicles, infantry with heavy weapons, recon vehicles, APCs and Tanks which when used in an even marginally competent manner, can let you stomp the crap out of a mech army upto twice the points total.

[@jlvfr]

... like a gang of red ants going for a jaguar...

[@jameslittleton4131]

Many moons ago, I surprised my TT opponent by fielding a 50t hover tank equipped with jump jets. It was an attempt to bring the grav-tanks from FASA's other game Renegade Legion (coincendentaly written by Sam Lewis) into Battletech. Let's just say they weren't expecting the sudden pop-up alpha strikes. :D

[@cardboardcrafter2482]

What weapons did it have?

[@mjbull5156]

Back in the day when my group started doing combined arms with homebrew equipment designs. Somepne tried using SavannahMasters and annoyed everyone. This led to an arms race, the development of VTOLs with enough movement to consistently get +4 movement modifiers armed with LRM 10s to get behind a mech at 7 hexes, making them almost complately untargetable by mechs. This led to countering with hovertanks armed with as many machine guns as possible as anti-VTOL gunboats. The anti-VTOL hoverstanks were found to be decently effective against Mechs and worse if yiou took out some of the MGs with an SRM 2 with inferno rounds. This was just before the Clans were introduced. You would think the name would come the vehicle being at home in flat grassland terrain, not as a pereonal insult to the unfortunate MechWarrior who served as the opposing force in testing these things.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

Hedgehog tank best tank.

[@Kirkmaximus]

In short: Speed is Life

[@wolfschwarzmond]

Minute he mentioned Lewis I knew where this was going.

[@Typhonis007]

Each of those Savannah master could theoretically also carry a suit of inner sphere power armor and act like a chariot. Dashes in, releases the canned trooper, dashes out, trooper has fun, dashes in collects trooper, returns trooper to base to rest and rearm. I also have this image of 16 Savannah Masters shooting past a mech at high speed. By the time it is turned around enough to fire at them, they are rushing past it again in the opposite direction.

[@fix0the0spade]

They zip past a mech at full speed, overshooting because they're hovercraft, "Crap we're out of range turn around!" They turn around, accelarate and zip past a mech at full speed, overshooting because they're hovercraft, "Crap we're out of range...

[@laurencefraser]

@@fix0the0spade Thing is, they're hovercraft... they can turn around while continuing to travel in the same direction... Heck, with a bit of skill they can flat out circle-strafe

[@almitrahopkins1873]

The smaller or faster the target, the harder it is to hit. It’s the “bullseying womp rats” version of combat. It’s why the Elementals in Clan fights were such a royal pain. They do a little damage, but they are harder to fire back at. I can remember playing Battletech and chewing up slow-moving assault mechs using 20 ton scout mechs and tanks. When you have a 5:1 or 20:1 target advantage, the 1 won’t survive. That’s the goblin horde strategy. Losing one per round from the horde doesn’t get you the win, assuming you can hit one per round.

[@mathewkelly9968]

14:26 the only reason its banned is because people will spam them and its no fun for a novice player . Someone like me worries about them less because hovercraft have some issues in battletech like not liking woods , hills and rough terrain in general

[@ralphsexton8531]

In BattleTech, Mechs tend to need 4-6 hours maintenance for each 8-10 hour deployment. Lower and higher maintenance requirements exist for some units. Land vehicles usually call for about 1/2 to 1/3 of this, making them an easier prospect to maintain. Then there are "rugged" vehicles, that can go days or weeks without maintenance, but will be hangered up longer if they do - but still generally less time than other vehicles.

[@dragonturtle2703]

Bipedal humanoid robots make a lot of sense when piloted by a single human. It’s like how the US modeled their grenades after baseballs and other sports balls.

[@Philistine47]

Any vehicle that has to seriously worry about _falling over_ is going to be more of a pain to drive than anything that doesn't. And that's on top of the massive inefficiencies imposed by a bipedal form.

[@dragonturtle2703]

@@Philistine47 Wouldn't that also hold true for any aircraft? Or any vehicle at all in mountainous terrain? Hell, even the human form itself.

[@IRMentat]

Only until ground pressure and square root mass calculations take effect.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

Yeah, I'm mostly worried about ground pressure and target profile.

[@dragonturtle2703]

@ fair enough. Why, if they ever are a thing, they’d probably be far lighter vehicles than traditional tanks, and the larger ones would likely be multi-legged thing with feet designed expecting to sink into the ground a bit, while anything humanoid would probably max out at Titan Fall or Avatar amp suit sized.

[@IAmTheAce5]

Gosh that naming choice is like calling your member the Perri Riding-Crop

[@SacredCowShipyards]

It's a hell of an insult.

[@josephd.5524]

5:00 - bruh why you not running on the Sphere-accepted standard of Absolute Unit: the Urbanmech?

[@bthsr7113]

It's a ruthlessly efficient design for swarm operations, recon, and harassment, but it is not a catch all solution. Even though it can take a surprisingly hard hit (once) to the frontal armor. First and foremost, that immense mobility is a MASSIVE liability in dense terrain, especially urban terrain, and heavy woods are just not an option at all, while tanks and mechs are much more all terrain, though they can't dart out over deep rivers, lakes, or coastal waters. Hovercraft can, though getting taken out over the water makes recovery difficult, to say nothing of survival. Second, Battletech FTL transport is limited and scales poorly. This is part of why the more powerful yet more expensive assets are favored for offensive operations. Sure, 4 light mechs loaded to the gills with clan tech are going to cost WAY more than 4 Savannah Masters, but the transport costs aren't going to be too much higher, and the amount of resources needed to transport enough Savannah Masters to equal the combined sticker cost of those light mechs as part of the same strike package in one attack wave would make your budget sheet combust out of stress. Even shipping equivalent tonnage amounts of Savannah Masters is challenging. Now, building up a defensive posting in advance over months or years, that works. And on offensive deployments, having a few as scouts is quite handy. When you're just playing games and don't have to worry as much about handling, and can ignore transport logistics required to batch Battle Value point totals or financial total if you're an actual monster.... Yeah. This is THE horde asset for open terrain.

[@johnwiebe8581]

@Dockmaster, Can you confirm if you have ever had a McKenna class Battleship stop by your shipyard? If you have not done a review of that massive and amazing ship I think the humies here might enjoy the history including the 'Canadian' connection.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

We've talked about drop and jump ships, and obliquely battleships, but not specifically yet.

[@diehardjagged3279]

The fact that i instantly guessed the savannah master after seeing the title, means i clearly spend to much time playing battletech......

[@MajorButtons]

now talk about the Saladin hovertank.

[@FrederickApollyon]

Damn. Now I want 60 of those, all painted red (because it's a faster colour) and 40 painted purple (because it's a stealthy colour) all wrooming around with orks inside for my WAAAAGH!

[@shawn6860]

Just what the battletech universe needs. Orks!

[@MrGrimsmith]

@@shawn6860 Kinda already has them, just stupider. They're called "Clanners" :P

[@shawn6860]

@@MrGrimsmith 🤣

[@Balevolt]

I have a lot of PBI for BattleTech and if I remember properly a C-Bill is about Ten USD. I believe in Tech Manual a Mech needs Eight hours of maintenance per week of active duty, some mechs like the Ost series of mechs it's eight per two weeks.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

That's damned near no time at all.

[@bthsr7113]

@@SacredCowShipyards 1 Gameplay. 2 Battletech apparently had a fair bit of mad max vibes with how much things had been worn down by the succession wars, especially in the border regions, lower priority worlds, and parts of the Periphery. If it needed more complex regular maintenance, it wouldn't be viable for most mercenaries and pirates. If Billy Joe Bob can't operate it, and cousin Thomas can't do basic repairs on a tight deadline, then it falls out of favor.

[@randallraszick6001]

That looks like an SRN6 hovercraft that backed into an airplane.

[@Jackelmandingo]

Things that work vs a Savannah Master, mine fields, barbed wire, woods & jungle, to steep of a sloop, onboard artillery fire, most aircraft. So the Ferret Light V.T.O.L. at 5 tons costs less both in C-Bills and BV, you can buy two in C-Bills or get 4 for the BV cost of one Savannah Master. And it's faster! The thing that makes some ban a hovercraft they forget that most V.T.O.L. do all the time. Also the Ferret can bring Infantry and not just P.B.I. but Power Armor.

[@KillerOrca]

No one uses aerospace craft in-game though. That requires the advanced rules. You can run the Savannah Master alongside a standard lance of mechs from the go.

[@Jackelmandingo]

@@KillerOrca You can use V.T.O.L's from the 'go' and as for Aerospace craft. Well that your fault for not taking them, as they're standard rules.

[@KillerOrca]

@@Jackelmandingo Not having plastic ones until recently probably doesnt help.

[@ledocteur7701]

About that ending note, why so much maintenance ? I'd like to hear about that, maybe in a video focused on maintenance and logistics, the all too often forgotten elements of warfare in fiction ?

[@randlebrowne2048]

The more moving parts a vehicle has, along with how fast those parts are expected to move, the faster wear and tear becomes and issue.

[@rianfelis3156]

Many moving parts, at high speed, while you are actively kicking up a cloud of dust that is immediately sucked into your engine. In addition, they are usually used as landing craft, so saltwater thrown into the mix. Another way to think of it is as an aircraft that is ALWAYS taking off and landing in the field, so you dont' get any of the nice and easy movement.

[@nbsmith100]

also Seawater. seawater is the freaking bane of everything.

[@bthsr7113]

@@nbsmith100 A to the Hecking men. Even the salt we use on roads and driveways can eat away at the cars and shovels.

[@tssteelx]

If battletech was real armies would feild urban mechs and Savanah masters. They put their money into long Tom's and arrows. But its not, its nerd fantasy.

[@Feraligono]

I am suddenly getting terrible flashbacks to the PT boats in Kantai Collection.

[@Tomyironmane]

This is a new one by me... but the tactics seem similar to the tactics used by GEVs in the Shadowrun universe... GEVs, or Ground Effect Vehicles, are VTOL capable, high speed, low altitude "aircraft" in quotes because they're used in several roles, to include air support, CASEVAC, cargo hauling, smuggling, smuggling interdiction, gunship, armed insertion, and *tank* depending on exact armor and loadout, are also called Panzers and Thunderbirds due to their heavily armed and armored nature, and the deafening and occasionally supersonic passage.

[@KillerOrca]

Shadowrun and Battletech were both made originally by the same company, FASA. So it makes sense there'd be technological overlap.

[@bryancorrell3689]

Not all mechs are bipedal. Quadmechs (ie four legged) do exist, but overall have poor reputations. And among bipedal mechs many, including the Locust, are more bird-like in leg design. The Locusts arms are little more than turrets for the machine guns, so it looks more like a plover in motion than a human.

[@bthsr7113]

This. This needs more attention. Complaining about mechs only being humanoid is not a lasting complaint about Battletech. Sure, it's the default, but numerous iconic designs buck that default.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

The problem is the non-humanoid platforms "have poor reputations" because that's what the game revolves around, not due to any rational reason.

[@bthsr7113]

@@SacredCowShipyards No, the quadrupedal ones have a bad reputation (for imbalanced game rules) though they can and do serve well. And non humanoid bipeds don't have an assumed bad performance. Heck, one of the most iconic and lethally optimized heavy mechs is a non humanoid. Several go to lights are decidedly inhuman in form. Also, if you want to see some vicious many legged combat platforms, I'd recommend looking at 86.

[@torjones1701]

Problem is, in Battletech/Mechwarrior, they don't go by cost effectiveness, they go by Battle point Value (BV 2.0), which is mostly about the weapons carried, with minor considerations given to armor and speed and other equipment, as far as I can tell. Yes, if you went strictly by cost value, you'll wind up fielding a dozen Reflective for the cost of the Locust, which are more than a match for a Dire Wolf. By point value, you'll get 2 standard Savannah Masters for the cost of that Locust. Frankly, the BV system currently used doesn't make much sense to me as a balancing metric. One timber wolf can easily take out 3 Locust IIC, and by BV, the Locust IIC's are more valuable. (2737 for the timberwolf vs 1100x3 for the Locust IIC's, it's 600 points in the Locust Light Lance's favor, and yet, the timberwolf will typically have no problems popping all three for very little damage taken...)

[@technicalfool]

Been a while since I messed about with Mechwarrior and things might have changed, but even in a Dire Wolf, I'd be significantly concerned by the idea of 16 ER Medium lasers concentrating on my backside. That said, back in the MW2-MW4 days, it was kind of funny to customise small-medium mechs to do what the Savannah does, but on legs. Massive engine, all but no armour, and one or a few smol pewpews. Zoom-zooming around the battlefield, outrunning missiles, dodging laser fire, and nibbling legs off of any lumbering tower block that got close enough to take a shot. If I die, it's expected. If you die, it's just embarrassing. There were a few PvP server owners who banned small mechs after a visit from me and friends.

[@RaderizDorret]

Hey Dockmaster, in one of the Battletech novels during the Clan Invasion, the Draconis Combine laid the mother of all ambushes on Clan Smoke Jaguar in bad terrain. They abused the Savannah Master to pick away at Clanner 'mechs until finally dropping the hammer and more or less handing out a curb stomp.

[@jasonmorello1374]

Most of that maintenance would likely have to primarily go to that rubber skirt, as it manages the air cushion. If it degrades even by a significant percent, i would bet it at least looses some maneuvering, if not just going straight to immobile if it is a cascade effect, as rubber tends to easily enough. Next comes the air control, which when blowing air at the ground, means sucking in sand and other grit in quantity. Sand blasting an engine is never good. Now, on the seas this is mostly less, as salt would be slower and hopefully more uniform, but still not great. the real problem with MW and BT for these craft, is that there is so much that has to stay right for these to function in reality, and to gamify things certain realities get dropped. Mostly their understanding of square cube math is horrible, and only proportionality of their fusion engines have any consistency. Speed of course is a big deal, but lacking stable platforms they just magic in a gyro system powerful enough to counteract the firing of a shell weighing 1/8th of a ton(casing, explosive and projectile) to keep 40+ tons on those two legs. Not really gonna do that, and the math for speed and complexity of said gyro just is outside of likelihoods al around. Now, a 1 ton laser system, which might make sense, but really we don't make lasers that good yet for what it seems they should be able to do, which is to render useless 1/2 ton of standard armor on each hit, is quite a bit up there. In two degrees of freedom, with ground sensitive skirts, so much about the way they let the math break on these was wrong, at least in the same universe where 100 ton monster can be up to 30 tons armor, and for some stupid reason you put less on the legs than the main body. Not only that, but how the determine what space something can have for what frame and engine, its all really going break. So I tend to have fun playing with the fringes. Good old 12 medium laser Nova with jump jets. used to be able to two shot 100 ton monsters, as you only have to make a hole. 6 tons at a time. thee game has all the balance of a top made from duct tape, and it shows. Doesn't stop it being fun most of the time.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

The cushions are fairly resilient on account of how they're not a uniform skirt all the way to the ground - they break up into little finger-like balloons at the bottom which greatly improves their efficiency and durability.

[@jasonmorello1374]

@@SacredCowShipyards Interesting to know. Would seem a very high wear component, but that sounds like that mitigates some of it. Still, filtering air intake is probably the next big issue. if there was ever a thing that needed magical shielding it would be a jet intake in a sandy area.

[@nos2342]

Simply the best recon.

[@jasonscarborough94]

12:31 Most Locust variants have six total points of rear torso armor and 5-6 structure points per torso section, an Inner Sphere standard Medium laser deals 5 damage per hit, I guarantee it did not take him that long, unless Lewis got one good body hit then kept rolling limb hits for the next six turns, that's happened to me a few times

[@KillerOrca]

If the dice don't go your way, ain't nothing you can do but pray to Blake.

[@envynemo4170]

comstar is space AT&T with guns. so pay your bills but the locust is an recon anti person mech its not really meant for an stand up fight against armor and larger battlemechs

[@mikemj4859]

So the Wiesel from real life in Battletech, love it already

[@shmee123ful]

oh dockmaster you fail to see the appeal no desire that nests with in all humanity's collective unconscious in regards to giant humanoid mechs. all we desire as a species is to create not only something in our image but being able to poilit such iron gaints in such a way as to be able to step on our enemy's. with in all humanity lies a child that was far to found on stepping on ants and we wish nor nothing more than to incress our cability to step on well anything and everything

[@markfergerson2145]

I have no idea about game stats but I guarantee that if mechs are ever built they will require dozens of hours (at least) of maintenance per hour of run time. That assumes that we will ever design alloys to make the legs out of that won’t crumple under the thing’s weight, and bearings for the leg joints that won’t collapse the first time it takes a step. The square-cube law says “don’t hold your breath”.

[@laurencefraser]

In practice they've very unlikely to ever exceed however big they have to be for the pilot and engine to both fit entirely in the torso. If that.

[@markfergerson2145]

@@laurencefraser Yep. Also, as I’ve pointed out many times, the taller they are the better targets they make for anything designed to defeat armor, like MANPAT.

[@CMDR_B0B]

As a 34th century SnakeShip Salesman... ...and the Official Liaison for the 🎶 Amazonian Space Pirates 🎶... ... I'm here to point out that The Girls also exist in the afformentioned Techo-Battle Galaxy (& several other Variants as well). They, at least have always used a proper Combined Arms approach (we just don't use tanks[tracked] as Hovercraft Physics are Absolutely Amazing in that Variant). Mechanized, Mounted, Jump infantry, Artillery Support, and lots of Hover tanks to keep our Big Stompy BattleBuddys upright and functional. (They are High Maintenance and difficult to pick up so anything to keep our mechs going is great;-). We still keep our Gabrie'l s functioning so we don't "technically" use Savannah Masters... ...if you don't know one is effectivly a younger version of the other. And of course we remember or Stryker roots and maintain a handful of LAMs to really ruin your day. But that's another story. Have Fun&Post Dangerous 'Only ship in the Galaxy to come equipped with a soul '

[@irystocrattakodachithatmooms]

If you want something that isn't bipedal, or at least not exclusively, then you should see the Trotmobile from Steambot Chronicles. This might be a bit difficult however, it's a more obscure game from Atlus on the PS2. Those ones CAN be big stompy bipedal mechs, but it also has bird like legs, four legs spread out kind of like a spider, four legs like many mammals, wheels and tracks. Their also not very big next to other mechs like an MS or AC. It's actually about two 1930s cars in height, so it's downright tiny. It was also designed specifically for civilian usage and was never meant for combat. It's basically a "what if mechs were made in the 1930s" type of story but in a different world.

[@mathewkelly9968]

5:48 well if someone would get off their backsides and invent the KF drive we'd get the BattleTech universe we deserve

[@bthsr7113]

Need GM to make commercially viable fusion power first. And if solve that, FTL can wait longer.

[@benparker1822]

Simunitions. I like that. Gonna start using it more often for simulated battles. Currently part of a Play-by-post RPG game set on Solaris 7 where simulated battles are quite common.

[@KillerOrca]

They're very common in universe. Its super easy to do with laser weapons because you can just crank the emission power on them down so they become harmless marking beams, or will barely scortch the paint instead of boiling armor away. Autocannons and missiles are usually replaced with either fully simulated strikes if you have a powerful enough ROM, or in lesser areas, bags of flour or white paste.

[@sneezingidiot301]

Imagine these backing up a clone Juggernaut tank

[@mathewkelly9968]

2:24 im a dirty Capellan i always be taking combined arms ........ my IlClan era army especially is a terrorfying mix of mechs , armour upto and including WiGEs , artillery , infantry , battle armour , electronic warfare and minefields ........ did i mention minefields .......... i normally leave aerospace and aircraft out as it becomes too much (like you need extra maps to run it)

[@stephenlightfoot9627]

I too hated the humanoid Mechs, but I loved the Marauder...

[@randlebrowne2048]

The Marauder and the Timberwolf/MadCat!

[@ShuRugal]

I sat down and did the math a few weeks ago on how much armor mass an Abrams can carry vs an equivalent weight Battletech mech. Long story short, an 80 ton battle mech has paper mache for armor, compared to a modern main battle tank. If you wanted to build a battlemech with the same "armor mass per square meter of surface area" value as a modern tank, you need a 200+ ton mech. Also... something i've never seen ANYONE discuss in the context of Big Stompy Robots: Even the lightest mechs in the BattleTech universe have a static ground pressure of several hundred PSI. No battlemech is walking anywhere on anything other than a perfectly level plain of unbroken granite. And after they walk across it, it will be a plain of gravel.

[@sawyerthornley3784]

to answer the question about maintenance on mechs in most lore and games mechs are in maintenance of one form or another anytime they aren't in use

[@sep0319]

16 x 5 = 80 pt. damage...... and a very very very long game.

[@deaconvelos8352]

Zoom zoom

[@derekburge5294]

Speak not the demon's name! Away! Away with you, hover satan! I rebuke you! In Blake's name, I refuse you!

[@chexwarior]

216kph AKA nyeeeewm

[@coraon]

The reason the mechs need to be vaguely humanoid is they are controlled by a neuro helmet. This is a man machine interface that allows the pilot to *feel* through the sensors. In the lore they describe how the more non human the frame the harder it is for the pilot to adapt to it.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

There's a whole pile of them with backwards knees or no functional arms or other oddities, so...

[@zebaklongfang9344]

seen that once... granted, we had "engineers and open assembly", meaning we could alter our "big stompy bots"... as could the mad lad that wanted one of these lil devils.. he removed what armor it had and crammed in 4 small lasers... cant remember how (and if) it died.. nor who was the poor victim of that super effective tactic... only the expletives at what obviously happened.. that thing is silly fast and agile..

[@craigmorris4083]

Just gotta FYI here....BattleMehcs are in no way "Big Stompy Robots'. Robots are not piloted by a human being. Sorry. :)

[@craigmorris4083]

Also, they are weighed using Metric tons.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

Well, both of those statements are wrong.

[@barrybend7189]

Urbanmech is better. Modded it can go at speed of 150kph. With 10 tons of armor.

[@enoughothis]

Urbie is one of the three core mechs of Battletech, alongside the 100 ton scout Atlas and the Madcat (or Timberwolf if you lost at Tukuyyid). Everyone knows these Mechs.

[@DrFrankChibi]

The venerable Urbie is *the* premiere Trashcan on legs of the Battletech Universe. So beloved, it has a ton of variants.

[@fix0the0spade]

Yes in MWO, on tabletop if you put an engine that big into an Urbie, you have no room for guns and just built the biggest, fastest traffic cone in history. Although at that speed it's ramming damage would be epic.

[@barrybend7189]

@@fix0the0spade in tabletop you can cheat with an XL and double strength miomr.

[@enoughothis]

@@DrFrankChibi, including the always funny UM-R60L because surprise AC/20's are the best AC/20's and the UM-AIV which is a walking nuclear ballistic missile silo.

[@charlesdaugherty321]

I viewed mechs ad having extremely short maintenance times because everything is designed for rapid swap out. Everything from the engine to the armor is designed to be swapped fast, so the mech can be refited IN COMBAT. Swap what you need to, repair later.

[@dmcarpenter2470]

The Savannah Master aka fusion-powered RAT PATROL Cosplay. As for COMSTAR, it has VERY deep roots. Witness "TPC" in THE PRESIDENT'S ANALYST. Yes, COMSTAR is very old, indeed.

[@supsup335]

Going by battletech and the title, we're talking savannah master? FUCK the savannah master.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

Seems a common sentiment.

[@benparker1822]

While I get that, conceptually, that 'giant stompy' robots are stupid (if fun), but here's the thing: The Star League MADE them a viable combat platform! Exactly how is still up to the imagination, but I'm of the strong opinion that what you see in video games ain't it. How do I know this? Because it's not ONE faction that fields BattleMechs in BT. It's practically ALL of them. When the Star League debuted the technology, and it finally proliferated to the other major powers in the Humie sphere, did any one of them come up with a tactic or weapon to counter the Mech? They may have tried, but we don't know for sure from the fiction. Did any of them take what made the BattleMech special and try to apply it to conventional vehicles? Probably. (It's my opinion that the Savanah Master is an example of that. I think it was in some episode of Myth Busters or a car show where they tried to speed and zigzag to escape a combat helicopter, but they were told that none of that mattered, because once a lock was established, a missile would finish them off with relative ease. Same with the chin machine gun. So, there's more to BT's 'Speed Is Life' mechanic.) But, again, the fiction is kinda mum on the details. What I do know is that they adopted the technology wholesale. Each one! This means years of building up the infrastructure to start making the things. Upgrading and outfitting your existing tanks would have been much easier and not so costly! And, they already had anthropomorphic vehicles in existence at the time called IndustrialMechs. I'm sure that simply strapping armor and weapons on those had been tried more than once up to that point to laughable failure. I don't know what it is that make BattleMechs different from Industrials. I have my guesses, but that means BattleMechs are going to look scary, and inhuman. (That locust racing along at 129 kph is moving like Sonic the Hedgehog. Heck, most of the more basic 65 kph Mechs are going to look like track stars while on the move.) Which I find rather ironic considering the appeal is that they look like giant humans. And, sadly, that's how they get portrayed: Lumbering, clumsy humans in armor.

[@boobah5643]

The problem is that, whatever the fiction says, the _mechanics_ show you that armies of conventional vehicles would stomp mech units flat, given equivalent budgets. Or even given half the budget.

[@CowCommando]

The TexTalksBattletech episode on the Mackie might hold some answers for you as to why everyone started using 'mechs. The Mackie is the first ever Battlemech, and I know he talks about industrial mechs in at least one video if not the one I mentioned.

[@benparker1822]

@@CowCommando I've seen it, and I think there's more to it than that. I know what I think it is, but that's a paper and a half. Not something to put in the comment section on KZbin.

[@CowCommando]

@@benparker1822 I agree that the explanation in universe could fill volumes. I think the short answer is simply that 'mechs are more maneuverable, more armored, and more deadly, than anything else on the battlefield when they were first fielded. Once one group has them, everyone else wants or arguably needs them to defend against the first group, standard arms race logic.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

I imagine this is why the game balance uses Battle Value, and not actual machine cost, because... yeah, the latter would result in dead mechs everywhere.

[@jakeaurod]

Why wouldn't a hovercraft be able to park on the side of a hill. First, it should be able to deflate and rest on it's hull with enough friction, depending on grade, which might be useful for hull-down shooting. Second, even if it is actively hovering, it could conceivably maintain position if it's propulsion fans can counteract the backward-vector of the pull of gravity. Something I'd like to see, realistically, is a combination hovercraft and ground-effect craft. It could use a stub-wing with fences to induce a dynamic air-cushion and the stub-wing might be able to extend airbags to create a skirt for slower movement or stationary hovering.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

That assumes vectoring not readily apparent on any of the illustrations.

[@SonicNitro]

I'm surprised there's not a variant of this vehicle that comes with short to long range rockets pods or even a gauss rifle.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

Gauss would provide weird recoil issues.

[@mathewkelly9968]

BattleTech is superior again

[@johncunningham4820]

That sounded EXACTLY like how Drone Warfare works.......................

[@bthsr7113]

Drones are a thing in Battletech, but between tech regression and bad association from hellishly effective platforms fighting for dark masters, they're not widely used, and even when they are, it is often remote operation or an unarmed platform.

[@torjones1701]

I have gone "Peg" though, not in many years, and the statute of limitations has long since expired.

[@LilacMage]

Yeah! Big stompy robots! But it would be fun to fight infantery in mw5m/mw5c. Or use those funny wehicles. Or bouth.

[@cheeseburger3119]

You should play Crossout. Mech legs are one of my favorite for the height, durability and basically turning your ride into a turret.

[@nbsmith100]

you should see my Tankosaurus rex 200 ton super heavy tank in Battletech some time.... Comstar is like if you took the spacing guild from dune but made it more like AT&T, but if AT&T became the sole government of earth. But yeah in general in battletech if you can seperate your weapons between as many vehicles as you can for the same price of 1 vehicle containing all said weapons tends to be a very succsessful tactic at whatever scale you play at. turns out the best armor is the armor you can't hit, and when the weapons are seperated by actual space so that damage cant transfer from one unit to another, their overall survivability goes up significantly. And then you throw insane speed on it.

[@martinrwolfe]

That service time to flight time ratio for a hovercraft seems wrong. May I point you to the SR.N4 Mk III pasenger and car ferry hover craft that was used on the cross chanel route. As far as I can recall it opperated for multiple crossings a day seven days a week with most maintenance being done overnight. I found the ride on ths hover craft to be nice and smoot though ofcause noisy compared to a conventional ro-ro ferry.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

"Overnight" could imply a solid eight hours of maintenance, while - thanks to its unloading, loading, and schedules - it's not in continuous operation the remainder of the time.

[@MaximusOfTheMeadow]

What do you actualy do on the shipyards? I imegine it like a shopping center or a trading hub. It's got to be worth it to lose your ship & become stranded but can't take longer then 24hours

[@SacredCowShipyards]

What makes you think we let the crew stay here? :)

[@bingo45100]

Good intro before the intro.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

We're experimenting with that.

[@Banedragon]

Savannah master vs xm-2 reiganleif from 86

[@nobodyimportant5417]

Can 16 SMs take out a direwolf? Yes. Yes they can. They will ALWAYS be behind it, no matter what the mech tried to do, and that thing has ac5 and LRM ammo to cook off. Even a handful of hits will destroy the rear armor and start popping internal components. In a straight up fight agaist a Daishi Prime on a semi open map? Id give it at least a one of 3 chance to the SMs. If you did cbill to cbill fight, you'd have hundreds of the little buggers. Clanner wouldnt have a chance.

[@leadingauctions8440]

It is a shame KZbin still dkes not notify us when these come out.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

KZbin is the worst, aside from all the other streaming sites no one cares about.

[@leadingauctions8440]

@SacredCowShipyards True.

[@comentedonakeyboard]

Somehow i get Toyota vibes.

[@sirjohangasmaskesquireiii5086]

So…the maintenance requirements on a mech are HORRENDOUS…general upkeep? Don’t know. Armor damage? Terrible. Internal damage? LET ME REPLACE THIS ENTIRE SYNTHETIC MUSCLE!!!!!

[@hanzzel6086]

Ooh! I'm early!

[@MrGrimsmith]

The person complaining sounds like a Clanner to me. Just because their Firemoth is so much slower and costs so much more and their inbred kind forgot about anything other than mechs. Also it could be a LOT worse. Popping over a hill to find an SRM60 vehicle in your face? That's a paddling. Going around a corner and finding a Bulldog that has you in their sights? Bad day. Seriously. Entering the battlefield and seeing a pair of Partisans in the distance? This is one you aren't coming home from. Also bipedal robots are dumb. Very cool, still dumb. Quadrupeds in BT got nerfed so hard it wasn't funny and hexapeds (the true way) never got a look in. They made *tripods* FFS but ignored the six legged versions!

[@bthsr7113]

Dude, the Firemoth can actually keep equal pace in bursts, with the P config able to outrun the Savannah Master at a sprint. Also B and D configs are well armed to destroy SM's with battle armor for backup. Also, the Clans didn't entire forget about non mech assets beyond Battle Armor. Hell's Horses put omnitech in hovercraft for example. The Epona is slower than an SM, but it is quite well armed with a turret to continue tracking the SM in every arc. And it entered service 141 years before the SM. It also saw service in several different clans.

[@GRIGGINS1]

Veritechs would completely own a Savannah Master in combat. Just saying.

[@bthsr7113]

Yeah, but LAM's don't make sense, and we already have aerospace fighters.

[@GRIGGINS1]

@bthsr7113 Veritechs smoke normal fighters in combat. They pull off maneuvers regular fighters can't. It was shown in Macross Zero.

[@ghrey8282]

Generic remarks about nothing in particular.

[@werewolfjedi38]

For a point of reference, the battle tech video game places mech repair times in days. For the Argus reclamation mission early on, it lasted 14 turns, and the 4 man lance took out 3 tanks, a turret control system, then a mixed group of 3 light mechs and 3 more tanks, before finally finishing against a medium and heavy considered to be in disrepair. The locust that was fielded, wasn't even repaired, and instead just scrapped for bay space as the centurion was its replacement, a medium brawler mech. It was worth 270k with a destroyed arm and leg. The other three mechs had minor structural damage from system heat exposure. They each took 2 days to repair. The centurion was a 20 day job to get up and running. On the note of hitting fast little buggers like hover tanks, that's what lock on missiles are for. Something a locust can't field.

[@SacredCowShipyards]

Well, yeah, but that's repair, not maintenance.