Economically Left but Socially Moderate?

[@benp4877]

Thank goodness for outlets like Jacobin and sensible commenters like Jen. Being economically left and socially moderate/centrist does not make you evil.

[@wvu05]

Well, centrist is another word for triangulation rather than a synonym for moderate, but agreed about social moderates.

[@noahlenten8360]

not yet anyway give me 20 years and ill be a full blown nazi

[@Ggaia-d9z]

Of course it does.

[@BigStar1972]

We get the parties we have because social liberalism and economic conservatism is what you get when rich liberals compromise with rich conservatives - each side giving up what matters less to them to keep their economic self interest.

[@globalhumanism]

Precisely. And this is possible because the US constitution strongly encourages the long term maintenance of only two large coalition parties. (Duverger's law, and US history. And other history.) So US people can't have an economically left/socially right party or econ right/socially left ... except the latter is what Dems are rapidly becoming (since 1992 at least but even more rapidly now). So if this is permanent, we can't have economically left/socially left. But since I won't give the R's any further advantage, I say that the struggle is still within the D coalition party.

[@EGH181]

Truth!

[@dannyevilcat]

I fit into this category. I'm economically hard left, and even generally support progressive positions on most of the social issues, but they lose me on the identity culture war BS. I get that it's exaggerated and exploited by the right, who just want to be able to say horrible shit without consequences, but that doesn't mean it's not real. I want no part of the left that conflates more traditionally minded people with fascists that that need to be stomped out of existence.

[@rivera229]

The right partakes more in the culture war nonsense than the left does. But the right has better messaging, they have had so much experience with the culture war that they know how to make the other side look worse. The culture war isn't common among the left but when it happens, it is cringe as hell, no doubt about it. Not only that but the majority of the left are just not well-read in leftist literature. The amount of leftists who have not once read the Communist Manifesto, or anything by Marx and Engels, is quite prevalent! The Western left of today almost rarely brings up class, focusing on race. While race definitely needs to get talked about, the left has always had a history of focusing on class first and foremost. While it does get brought up by the left, if we do it "too much", we get labeled as class reductionists. The problem is what makes talking about class come across as "class reductionism" too much? This has caused some leftists to not bring up class that much anymore and even gave an opening to right wingers like Charlie Kirk who has tried to hijack class as the focus of the right.

[@ablindwatchmakerUT]

Seriously. For me, it’s very obvious that things like single-parent households are at huge disadvantages compared to a traditional family, but the cultural left seems to have no issue with this, and they even glorify it. Supporting policies that encourage families is not fascist or patriarchal, it’s just common sense. I was incarcerated as a juvenile for many years, and among the hundreds of us I was in regular contact with, only ONE came from a traditional household. Most of us lived with our mothers or grandparents before we got locked up. Growing up without fathers is terrible for kids, especially young males, but the social left doesn’t seem to even notice it.

[@o.m.a6220]

@@ablindwatchmakerUT this is it Jordan peterson being so popular is in part a failure of the left to capture the minds of young men(not just white).

[@coolbanana165]

What do you consider to be identity culture war BS? I'm not really sure what identity politics is, though I suspect people would claim me to be part of it. I guess I don't see it that way because it's just my life. I just want a normal life, and to me that's not really about identity... other people make it about identity. It's just basic justice and respect that most people have from birth. I'm not sure it's so bad or radical as some people make out. Many of us are reasonable if you keep giving us a chance.

[@kelly980]

@@coolbanana165 Do you attend anti-Chappelle rallies?

[@vincentbatten4686]

Not to mention that in many instances solving the economic issues will resolve many of the cultural issues so it comes down to a win win.

[@ShazyShaze]

how does solving economic issues fix conservatives thinking that gays are an affront to god?

[@ilirsulejmani7050]

@@ShazyShaze I don’t think economic programs can change public attitudes. However, for the most part, gay people are not oppressed by the attitudes of conservatives. They are oppressed because of the economic failures of capitalism. Let’s imagine a gay teen coming out to his Christian conservative family. If he is kicked out of their home for being gay, he is now homeless. But if we had universal housing, EVERYONE (including this young gay teen) would be guaranteed a home. So homelessness among gay teens becomes less of a problem. This also means he will be less likely to turn to sex work out of desperation, protecting him from the hate crimes and other abuses that permeate that field of work. I do agree, however, that there are still social problems that are non-economic in nature.

[@vincentbatten4686]

@@ShazyShaze Think about what Jen is saying here. There is an alignment and consensus on solving economic inequality. This transcends the notion of sexual identity. So part one is you can come together under economic issues and form coalitions. Then think about some of the biggest issues that are disproportionately affecting LGBTQ individuals. It's pay and healthcare. Marriage inequality is solved at this point, and many of the purely social issues are solved from a policy and legislative perspective. Instead of creating politics of us vs them. It makes much more sense to achieve progress of unity by finding political projects that we can work together on. Obviously you can't pull everyone and there will always be those who will outwardly reject you and if they form their entire political identity around anti-lgbtq fervor then sure they are a lost cause, but that is not a majority and we can make inroads with middle, lower middle, and working class people to solve issues that affect us all and will overall benefit the lbtq population.

[@vincentbatten4686]

@@ilirsulejmani7050 I didn't think about the housing situation at first. Thanks for bringing that up. I knew a few friends in highschool who were worried about this type of thing.

[@grady7420]

@@ilirsulejmani7050 And what about his family forcing him to go to conversion therapy and verbal harassment from family members?

[@eblackbrook]

What you are saying here should be blindingly obvious and yet it's a radical message to most Democrats. Such an extraordinary disconnect points to what a dire situation we are in, with regard to our culture and our leadership.

[@jedimaster1562]

Behold the American Solidarity Party!!🧡💙

[@ladymorwendaebrethil-feani4031]

I'm leftist in economics, culturally moderate in rhetoric and culturally very liberal/progressive in practice. That means I don't waste time on useless twitter culture wars that have no real impact on the lives of opressed people (when the divisive rethoric on social media contributes to instigating more anger of the far right against them)... Meanwhile, working-class trans women are systematically excluded from access to health care, and liberals on twitter don't say anything about it.

[@basiliscornelius]

It's a bit overly harsh but I've often thought of the liberal attitude on LGBT+ issues as amounting to: "Your gender/sexual identity is totally valid, even in the homeless shelter!"

[@electrosonicnebula]

More importantly: the poor are systematically excluded from access to health care. I say more importantly because as much as critical race theory is right on about so many things everything stems from materialism and the lack of solidarity numerous thinkers have warned against for eons: racism, sexism, the military industrial complex, discrimination against LGTB+, and environmental destruction all stem from a hedonistic, undereducated culture of disdain or hate promoted by some powerful actors but engaged in by unimaginative masses, who bear some of the blame at least.

[@philesq9595]

Yep. I feel like that is generally a popular position even if the individual doesn't recognize they are that way because everyone defines labels differently. Issue by issue, most people agree on broad goals.

[@RationalAUS]

I feel the same. The far left is quite elitist in nature, usually from an upper middle background. Most don't identify with economically left ideals because of this .They should almost be called two different things. I think this is why your seeing a huge shift of working-class voters moving to the far right.

[@globalhumanism]

"... leftist in economics ... culturally moderate in rhetoric and culturally very liberal/progressive in practice" still tells me that we're on the same team, and you're just using tactics that you see pragmatic (and I mostly agree that they can be, even though apparent rabble rousers who push the envelope are necessary too). So, no problem at all, at least not from me. I think the other key words are "twitter" and "social media," and your point about libs not fighting for working class trans women excluded from health care is good. Please keep saying it.

[@Octoberfurst]

Thank you for this! I am both economically and socially on the Left. But I realize that many people are uncomfortable with trans issues, abortion rights and identity politics. Therefore I think that our major focus should be on economic issues. That is a winning strategy not arguing over critical race theory. Don't get me wrong, I am all for trans, gay and abortion rights. But that should not be our main focus.

[@link8689]

you for big government not economic liberal. economic liberal support small government while social left want big spending social programs or social justice.

[@Ggaia-d9z]

The left hijacked the cultural part from the liberals and yet complain about.

[@valq10]

Always seemed obvious to me. It's because of my liberal value of tolerance that I don't care if, for example, my devoutly religious Sudanese Coptic neighbour is not gonna join me on a queer pride parade. We agree to disagree but still get on fine, chat in line at the green grocers, and don't want to see the other struggling to pay bills, to afford food, or to meet rent. Most people get this except sheltered bourgeois babies who never speak to anyone different from themselves except to pity them or ask how much their cleaning services cost.

[@rednotdead89]

Jacobin getting bold.

[@mynameischaku]

It seems like that group will be ignored by design. Left wing economics are a threat to the wealth and profits of the ruling class, cultural issues do not threaten wealth and profits, and are excellent to divide people, as the outcome genuinely doesn't matter to the ruling class. If poor people can fight over other issues, the wealthy can win on the only issue they genuinely care about.

[@justinlevy274]

Precisely

[@ostrodmit]

Totally agree.

[@siriuslyspeaking9720]

What this analysis fails to consider is that working class people and the poor don't see themselves as bad off, as the Left projects them to be. New immigrants certainly value the sense of security and freedom, that they may not have had back home. They certainly feel that they have better opportunities here. We know voting African-Americans, largely had no problem with the war on drugs, depict all the current activist condemnation of it. Working class African-Americans certainly opted for security. But rehabilitation funding and money for drug treatment, also accompanied that legislation. No one talks about that. Working class Blacks made the mistake of thinking criminals would respond to harsher sentencing, as they would have, if it were them. No one talks about the corruption in prisons and the culture that the inmates created themselves. If we think government policies and jobs alone can reduce criminality and violence in the U.S., I think we're kidding ourselves. Who can argue with the basic logic behind broken windows? The policy was often applied in a draconian manner, and that should never have happened, but today many people on the Left, don't, even want to fundamentally say any anti-social behavior is wrong. They view it as blaming the victim, because they think or say, the system is stacked so much against them. They also fear the Left's use of this, as if we don't speak out about and against it, the Right will not be able to use it. None of these people would ever accept that excuse for themselves or their children. Yet this is the argument they want to make, and expect the world or reality to conform to. This phenomenon is starkly applicable to African-Americans. We celebrate, glorify, and emulate gangsters and thugs, and excuse drug dealing and the violence, loss of life and community destruction that comes with it. We say our people do it to survive, when we know, it is antithetical to survival. The sentiment is, if only for racism and lack of jobs, they would be okay - just like me. Again, it's easy to see what's wrong with that picture. The system, just like life in general, is harder on people who, make it harder for themselves. Some people are for whatever reasons, just going to act in an anti-social manner. It makes it easier for one to gravitate that way, when clear distinctions of appropriate behavior are not constantly made. Some people have a predisposition to challenge authority. Most criminals, are the exception in their own family. Their siblings grew up in the same environment, but they take a different path than their siblings. People are empathetic to their lost-misguided sibling or child, and to people less fortunate, but most understand that economics, is a key factor, in their comfort and happiness. Of course the pocketbook will usually trump any other issue. Most of us don't resort to criminality, especially violent criminality, because we know, we are not at risk of dying, if we miss another meal. Our modern way of living is not a question of survival. When people feel they are comfortable, they can give other aspects of life priority.

[@mochilover7053]

@@siriuslyspeaking9720 How did the inmates create the culture inside of an institution they literally have no agency in? Keep in mind the presidents that white people voted for in the 80s and 90s allowed these drugs to come in to topple socialist gov'ts in this hemisphere. Reagan and Bush were bigger drug dealers than Freeway Rick Ross or Frank Lucas could ever imagine, but you don't have the same contempt for them. Your long essay on the supposed inherent faults of black people is not doing you any favors.

[@justinlevy274]

@@siriuslyspeaking9720 I think you're drastically underplaying the discontent amongst the working class. Since the late 70s worker productivity has continued to increase while real wages have remained the same. That gap between productivity and pay has gone to the owners of those companies and financial capital. Workers continue to be displaced by technology and offshoring again to raise profits for ownership. Anytime there is a big boom in the economy most of the gains go to ownership and as soon as it bursts workers get fired. They've seen their standard of living drop or they've resorted to unbelievable amounts of household debt to make up for no rise in real wages. Workers went to Obama for help, no change. They swung to Trump, no change. They responded to Bernie and he got shoved out of the way. Now Biden is in office and there will be no change. We just had a massive walkout (I forget what people are calling the movement) of millions of employees quitting their jobs over pay and working conditions. The answer to why neither side really appeals to labor is because both parties are very procapitalist. The Right is simply more cutthroat about it. The left engages in identity politics because it needs to put together some kind of coalition to compete electorally while not challenging capitalism in a meaningful way. Which is what OP was on about.

[@Fdzzaigl]

Thanks for this video, I definitely fall into this category as well. I'm European (Belgian) and after a massive decline on the left in elections for years we now see a comeback when those parties are again focusing on economy and socioeconomic problems primarily.

[@Ggaia-d9z]

So you are a red fascist?

[@DUSAbruddah]

socially right eco left black man here.

[@ckself]

I used to think of myself as economically and socially left. But in this age of so called "wokeness", I feel that I am now economically left and socially center-left. And for that reason, I have been called a "moderate" several times this year even though I say things like "we need to move toward single payer health care" among other things that would normally not put me into the "centrist" category. The culture war has become so dominant that it has changed how people view my politics which haven't really changed.

[@weejockpoopongmcplop]

The Democrats aren't prepared to do anything economically left so it's all culture war bullshit from now on.

[@benp4877]

Precisely.

[@globalhumanism]

I hear you. But if your politics haven't really changed, then you're not really "center"-left or "moderate" on non-economic stuff. Don't let the elitist PMC-focused Vichy Democrats define the terms, especially when it comes to yourself. You're more and better than that, and than them. Attack the BS with "hey, I agree with the goal, but you're going about it all wrong." My two cents.

[@ckself]

@@globalhumanism I don't necessarily disagree with you on this. I do think of my self as a leftist and loathe how the term "leftist" or "the left" is being used. I love the idea of taking the term back from them. But it sometimes seems like a losing battle and at the end of the day, I care more about policy and results than terminology.

[@link8689]

economic liberal will never agree with single payer healthcare because not an basic public good. basic public good economic liberal are education, infrastructure, defense. you are not center-left, center-left means most of your positions are moderate 66% or more. ME: social moderate foreign policy moderate economic liberal on foreign policy i believe in world Peace not liberal hawk (joe biden)

[@Jackzay90]

I consider myself socially progressive but just by even slightly hinting at what they're getting at in this video will get you called a class reductionist by other leftists.

[@rivera229]

Eh, from my experience with Socialists and Communists in person, class reductionism is rarely brought up except to laugh at it. When one reads Marx, Engels, Lenin and so on, class first is the literal philosophy in general. Yes you can have race and imperialism and all these other things go along with it, even the men I just mentioned have done the same thing. But any true leftist would see things from a class-first perspective because no matter what, that still holds widely true across the world. Besides, whenever I hear any so-called leftist call another leftist class reductionist, I think they are their politics are already suspect.

[@rivera229]

I am not saying you are one of those leftists lol, I am saying those who might call you class reductionist are definitely suspect. From what I have seen of these people online, more times than not they just happen to be radical liberals rather than actual socialists.

[@chidorirasenganz]

@@rivera229 100%

[@justinlevy274]

The job is to convince those leftists that a class first analysis has the most explanatory power. Academic marxists have this same issue with academic post modernists as well.

[@Ggaia-d9z]

Bcos that's what you are. And your ideology is a failure

[@tengiz8508]

Dreaming of the future, where the policy is debated, negotiated and compromised from communist and libertarian perspectives. The tyranny of the state and the tyranny of the capital need to be confronted head on with honesty and intergity.

[@ablindwatchmakerUT]

I fit this description, somewhat. I’m strongly left on economics and fairly progressive on most social issues, but I’m not in denial about things like sex differences or innate differences in ability. Some people are more capable than others, and this will always be true-Inequality is not exclusively caused by bias. However, a lot of inequality IS caused by an unfair system, so I believe in raising the floor so that those who can do well have the basic resources they need, with those who do fall behind still getting their basic needs met (housing, healthcare, education).

[@jonahanderson9101]

This describes me to a tee, I feel like this is common sense to me. Most of my friends are economically left but the social progressiveness of the far left make them and me somewhat uncomfortable

[@ablindwatchmakerUT]

@@jonahanderson9101 It’s very strange, and dangerous. I think a lot of it is based on resentment and not any actual desire to understand the world or to make life better. As other posters have said, if we can get things like public housing and healthcare, a lot of other things will fall into place. For me, the issue isn’t that people at the top make too much (though they do), but that the floor is so low. We could easily solve problems like homelessness with a paltry sum of money, yet it never happens because the corporations want people to be desperate.I never understood this in the past, but the reason they don’t support welfare isn’t that it’s too expensive, it’s that people become less desperate and won’t put up with crappy working conditions if their basic needs are met.

[@janosmarothy5409]

I'm genuinely curious what you mean by "sex differences or innate differences in ability," who specifically are the ones you think are in denial, and what specifically are they supposed to be in denial about? I don't know anything about your thoughts on the matter, which is why I'm asking. Honestly, I find there's a lot of really, really basic misconceptions on matters of fact. Oftentimes (again, not pointing the finger at you in particular) moderate-to-conservative people who invoke "the science" turn out to have a rather patchy understanding of what the science says.

[@hairyshoulders5866]

@@janosmarothy5409 I hear these kinds of takes often from people who only know about the left through strawmen and reactionary propaganda. It doesn't even stand up to basic scrutiny. Why would trans people be desperate for hormone therapy and gender affirming surgery if they were in complete denial about sex differences? Same about the "equality" thing; most leftists don't think that socialism will lead to complete equality of outcome; that's like the most blatant conservative propaganda, lol. Even Engels wrote about why equality should not be a political goal for socialists in "Engels to August Bebel In Zwickau"

[@ablindwatchmakerUT]

@@janosmarothy5409 No problem, and thanks for not immediately taking my head off. What I mean by sex differences, in this context, are the ways in which personality traits tend to cluster differently, depending on sex, and any other differences in behavior that can at least be partially attributed to biology. For instance, the fact that men and women are not equally represented in every field is often cited as a sign of inequality, but I think this has far more to do with individual choice than it does systemic bias. It should not come as a surprise that women tend to cluster in fields like healthcare and education, yet when we find that there aren’t many women in the coding community, we assume it’s because women are being oppressed in some fashion. The more reasonable interpretation is that men and women are interested in different subjects, and this in turn influences career choices. There are many examples of this, and the problem I have with the progressive left is that they always assume there is bias, usually perpetrated by white males. I think this is incredibly overplayed and dangerously inaccurate. As far as overall differences, it should be pretty obvious that some people are smarter than others, more mentally healthy, more industrious, etc. Of course, a person’s upbringing has a major influence on this, but if everyone were given the same starting positions and resources, you would still end with inequality. The goal should be to make the rules of the game as fair AND humane as possible. My position is that to the extent to which unequal starting positions influence outcomes, we should try to equalize the playing field. In the event that people don’t do as well, they should be given basic things like housing and healthcare, but we can’t lose sight of the fact that sometimes, even often, people “lose” because of their own deficiencies. As a matter of fact, I happen to be one of them, though I once thought otherwise.

[@LittleMacscorner]

THANK YOU!!! I have been saying all of this FOR YEARS!!!!! Granted, I have been louder more recently but the strategy and progressive priorities promoted in this video has been what I have been advocating for FOR YEARS!!!

[@LittleMacscorner]

You can disagree with with what I am about to say but it does not CHANGE the fact that the Feminist movement (in my opinion)has gone SO FAR left it is starting to alienate Men and even woman ON THE LEFT. GUESS WHAT?! I am one of them!! How? Why? Because PART of the movement is transitioning from achieving ECONOMIC and LEGAL equality to trying to force the idea that men and woman ARE THE SAME onto society. NEWSFLASH: Men and women are 100% NOT THE SAME. As in, if we did not procreate with each other we would be diference SPEICES. From how our bodies and minds work, to how and what we instinctively VALUE. The bottom line is that women are 100% moving past EQUALITY to wanting to HAVE THEIR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO. YES, there are ROLES in society. AND YES Gender defines what they NORMALLY are. WOmens Equlity and empowerment should NOT be about shedding 'roles' for the simple sake of it. How impressed would YOU be by a man who shed his role as the provider and left YOU to bring home the bacon. 90% of women would RESENT that man SO FAST. Equality is about women have the RIGHT to choose a different role and the ACCESS to do it. Most of which is ALREADY ACCOMPLISHED. There is a DIFFERENCE between FORCING someone into a roll and SHAMING them OUT OF IT. How many progressive women truly understand the amount of females out their that are PERFECTLY HAPPY as housewives in submissive relationships with their husbands? There is NOTHING wrong with that SO LONG as that is the woman's CHOICE. Anyways, I have FAR more nuanced thoughts on this but I encourage anyone who thinks a woman working and making money is going to lead to happenesso start asking themselves; Then why is the LEAST happy demographic in America Professional Working Age Women? Never forget....Men ALSO have a choice and so long as that choice does not involve LEGAL or ECONOMIC inequalities.....welcome to being a member of an equal class on why we give two flying fucks about your problems. You are now JUST AS CAPABLE OF US to fix your own problems. (This last part INTENTIONALLY antagonistic to make a POINT not to actually be a complete ass) *EDIT* And hey, we can disagree....and I would love to discuss. But this is me....a VERY open minded and progressive person expressing this. Imagine how much the far left is turning off the AVERAGE JOE. Its THE ECONOMY, STUPID!! Just stick talking ECONOMY and avoid arguing over social issues SO LONG AS we remain equal in the COURTS and workplace POLICY. As for ACTUAL workplace issues...I ogt a WHOLE OTHER THING on that. Part of it being: Women are (on the average) HORRIBLE at salary negotiations. IN a world of equals....that's YOUR problem. Gender irrelevant. Maybe we would be better off if we agreed that we were NOT the same....and discuss from THERE.

[@kg192538]

Jen Pan is always an impressive commentator. Congratulations. Keep the faith.

[@JonIllescas]

Good conversation. We're having the same debate in the Spanish Left. Socialist hugs from the Mediterranean Coast!

[@RendezvousWithRama]

The farther you are from extremist us-vs-them positions, the less politically predictable you are, and the less susceptible to simplistic political advertising. This makes you more difficult to cater to. So it's in the interest of the parties to try to preserve an established polarized extremist base. Losing that base is risky, and makes political messaging more complex. Since social issues messaging is more easily delivered to the lowest common denominator and does not require knowledge beyond the validity of personal opinion, it's the better way to keep the parties' bases polarized and at each others' throats, making sure their anger and outrage is easily controlled and directed. This makes pushing social issues politically profitable. Until most people are suffering from economic issues considerably more than they currently are, social issues will play a major role in our elections.

[@oceanrocks]

Lol I’m completely alone in the political sphere. I mostly lean socially right (secure our southern border; deport all illegals, heavily restrict future immigration, tough on crime policies, against race-based quotas, transing kids shouldn’t be allowed, men who ID as women shouldn’t enter women’s spaces). The only social issue I fall centrist on is the gun issue, I’m in support of red flag laws because I believe there should be limits to who can own guns and it shouldn’t be easily accessed like candy. And I do believe the more guns = the more homicides and that other countries are safer without them but I do acknowledge that the right to own a gun is in the constitution. And on the abortion issue, I think I lean right, but I don’t see it as an important enough topic to focus on compared to everything else I mentioned, but I lean economically left (affordable healthcare, housing, raising taxes on the rich). I have never voted. I think the closest candidate that sort of leans to my direction is Andrew yang.

[@kjhuang]

I'm not sure what "socially moderate or conservative" even means anymore. When I first started following politics in the early 2000s, I thought "socially liberal" meant fewer government restrictions on personal lives and civil liberties - so basically, the social issues side of libertarianism - whereas social conservatism was about more government restrictions in those areas. So social conservatives wanted government to tell you that you could not marry a person of the same sex, or get an abortion, or use marijuana, whereas liberals like me wanted each person to make those decisions for themselves. Now I feel like the definition of "social liberal" or "social left" has shifted to mean the government and/or the social mob policing personal behaviors and personal morals. It's about pressuring or forcing people to do the "right thing", whether that be what racially-sensitive words you can or cannot say, or whether or not to get a vaccine. Hell, it's "leftists" who seem to be at least in part responsible for this push to raise the smoking age because it's bad for people's health, which is rich coming from the same group that's supposedly pushing to legalize recreational marijuana use - how soon before they reverse themselves because, after all, smoking marijuana isn't exactly the best for your health either? And on some issues like sexual behavior, do-gooder "leftist" SJWs are scrutinizing as hard as the Religious Right ever did. It's like these SJWs have come full circle and are pursuing the same ends as the Religious Right did, with only slight difference in motivation - whereas the social conservatives were trying to get people to align with their religion-based moral code, the SJWs think they're helping people by protecting them from themselves. I've never been about that and I hate that now. And I hate that it's this kind of bullshit that's what counts as "leftist" now. To me it isn't leftist at all - it's just same ol' repugnant authoritarianism.

[@HermesWrenMusic]

Jen Pan is great

[@geoffreynhill2833]

Pay them better and they might become more generous socially.

[@mariaestherrivas4988]

Thanks for this Jen... totally agree

[@BReNĐN-c6n]

I’m for corporate tax. Closing borders, Restrictions on abortions, gender affirming treatment, conservative welfare spending, I support healthcare, I’m against bailouts

[@Xsqber1234]

I’m economically center left and socially conservative. On economic issues, I support closing loopholes on the rich and making sure they pay their taxes, public works, tax credits for farmers, pro labor union, incentives for businesses to pay their employees more and expand to create more jobs, incentives for workers to invest in collective funds and personal savings accounts as a safety net (healthcare insurance, pensions, disaster insurance, wealth building) as a way to build wealth, so then they rely less on taxpayer dollars, I’m protectionist and believe in building more trade schools and STEM schools to prepare our future generations. I believe in regulating corporations and banning stock trading for politicians and government officials. I also support overturning citizens United and support campaign finance reform. On social issues, I believe in strong law and order, I hate the wokeness, I support tough on border policies to secure it, I oppose affirmative action, I believe in common sense gun laws, I’m pro police (they should be educated on deescalation and should be held accountable when necessary), i believe abortion should be safe and rare and allowed when the mother is in danger or raped. I support promoting patriotism and hard work and family values, but I’m not religious at all. I’m pro military. I’m a Democrat, but more of a blue dog democrat. I’d vote for any democrat before even considering a Republican because they are elitist, anti worker cultists who threaten the American people.

[@solidaritytime3650]

Happy to be chilling on the black side of Jacobin, where a person can hear insightful commentary. The red side of Jacobin still stinks of Young Turks.

[@globalhumanism]

Black side? Red side? TYT? What the hell are you even talking about? I honestly have no idea. But if your reference to "reek" focuses on one particular person who's on both, best keep it to yourself. We've heard it all before and no one here in good faith cares. If not, well hey, educate me.

[@Aurelian603]

Can you explain that further - what is the “black side” of Jacobin?

[@Lisa-rx6io]

I just don’t see how we get our economic goals without thinking everyone is deserving of it.

[@Firmus777]

Because it is always *our* economic goals, contrasted with some *them*, even if the them is the bourgeoisie. Also, not every exclusion is an exclusion from economic prosperity.

[@Lisa-rx6io]

@@Firmus777 sorry i don't understand.

[@wildrice8199]

Couldn't agree more, nice to see some hard data showing this effect.

[@rockonmadonna]

I am gay, college-educated, bilingual, and belong to this group! I’m not not as conservative as anti-marijuana legalization or same-sex marriage. I am more moderate regarding abortion, not letting minors gender transition, family values, monogamy, etc. We must pick out battles. The “woke” issues aren’t going to win the day for quality of life for the 95%. We’ve only got so much time and energy. For instance, the agreed on legalized abortion during the first trimester and thereafter only for medical reasons along with birth control in even Catholic France and Italy. Then, they built the greatest social democracies history has ever known. Regardless of our positions on these cultural issues, the economy and healthcare and research ALWAYS come before “woke” distractions. These “woke” misplaced priorities + corporate corruption = why Dems lose. We need to focus on balancing socialism and capitalism, health, and funding our people and infrastructure instead of putting 53 cents of every tax dollar into the bottomless pit of the military industrial complex. In short, we need to be more like NW Europe. We would have been had we gotten Wallace instead of Truman after FDR and without Reaganomics, and it’s time to get back to basics, back on track!

[@jcomden]

Isn't one person's social issue another person's economic issue?

[@andrewdlarge]

In some abstract philosophical sense, maybe. But if you were to put it to a public opinion test, I feel pretty confident that only small minorities would view the politics of abortion, mainstreaming sexual minorities, and drug legalization as "economic issues."

[@hansdampf6916]

Great vid. But is it really just 20%? I feel that number should have gotten much higher in the last decade or so. Today, you can totally be pro gay and pro abortion rights and still be considered right-wing culturally by a small loud group (see JK Rowling). Being annoyed with new pronounce and being at least hesitant to allow kids to transition even against the parent's will seem to be much more widespread positions than those 20% suggest, yet they are considered conservative positions by that small but loud group.

[@cydonianmomentum3268]

I’m economically left-leaning, and I would say that I am liberal with social policy. I will preface that I don’t engage in comment wars with people over social issues, but I do sympathize with marginalized communities. I do think that there are reasonable limits to absolute liberty however, as the Supreme Court has already adjudicated. However, for the most part, since the culture war has engulfed the national discourse now, I would take the position socially of being a civic libertarian.

[@BReNĐN-c6n]

I’m culturally conservative, economically centrist

[@vehnashur2771]

Al the wealth is being funneled upwards and it sucks. The bottomless pit of greed of the "owner" class is destroying the country. I think people are understanding it, but dont necessarily feel the shackles that are getting heavier and heavier.

[@davepierunc]

Any discussion of Haney-Lopez's research on left political messaging? He argues that polling shows an economic populist message (bread and butter) actually fares worse than a message that centers on race (though not in the usual way.)

[@nataliekhanyola5669]

Could you link it please.

[@Aurelian603]

I think we have to be careful when we use “moderate” - many people on both the “woke” and the “reactionary” side of the culture wars think they’re moderates and believe their most eccentric ideas are simple common sense. The real question is what type of left wing organizing culture we want and who are we willing to make compromises and deals with. That’s going to be difficult, and highly dependent on the diverse social and political circumstances we encounter at the local level. A one size fits all approach might not be the most prudent choice for organizers, and it would be unwise for left wing activists and agitators at a national level to pretend that by ignoring social problems they will simply go away.

[@65j20e58w35]

I'm economically left, socially moderate, and I didn't vote in the last election. To be honest the "left" just isn't ready to discuss the social issues which are a bridge to far for people like me. So even though this video is coming from a good place it probably won't change anything.

[@jeffreylaporte6525]

Which issue would that be?

[@coolbanana165]

What sorts of social issues? Just wondering

[@weejockpoopongmcplop]

Yeah no shit these Jacobin videos aren't going to change anything, they get like 2k views.

[@grady7420]

are economic issues not social issues?

[@jamesoakes1819]

@@grady7420 no

[@slick5favorite]

This is the entire blue collar midwest. I know so many people that want more unions, universal healthcare, higher minimum wage and so on. All economically progressive but will not vote democrat because the parties insistence on putting race issues above everything. Being talked down to about rural culture. And lastly they have seen the last 25 years and know that the democratic party is not really economically left anymore they just pay lip service to the working class and do nothing regarding those issues. They see that they are the new African-Americans of the democratic party. They just want your votes then do nothing regarding the issues that affect them. So when both parties do the same thing on the all the major issues they just end up voting for people that will represent them culturally.

[@FunkyMunkyLuv]

Just whispering this a year ago got me booted from and called a Nazbol by many "leftist" in comment threads.

[@ahoosieratheart]

Anyone else get a Daily Wire ad? They're capitalizing on the phrase "do not comply" to raise money. Shapiro acts like they need grassroots funding....

[@MrQuantumInc]

Somebody embroiled in twitter wars is going to have a hard time remembering those with mixed opinions, they are always engaged with the other idealogues. In the Trump era particularly it is tempting to imagine that literally everyone in the USA is far left or far right. I would still say that those with mixed opinions are less logically consistent and the reason they are logically inconsistent is because they haven't thought about their positions very much. Those who are extremely passionate are not perfectly logical either but it is easier to identify an underlying position. Both for those who are less passionate and more passionate their politics don't form in a vacuum and are influenced by those around them and their personal interests.

[@TheEricrya]

Take a look at Thomas Ferguson's Golden Rule. Also, his Right Turn. Find out that votes have to do with big business!

[@Ryanrobi]

I am trying to understand this segment of the voters. I am the opposite lol Economically Free Market and Socially pretty liberal. I appreciate Jacobin as I want to hear the best arguments from the left Economically. I find I agree a fair amount with Jacobin on alot if the cultural "woke folks" have gone a bit to far.

[@link8689]

wow you more liberal then me. you more of an neoliberal or liberal democrat. I bet you believe liberal intervention(hawk) in foreign policy.

[@link8689]

you look up Adam Smith the first economic liberal, his book wealth of a Nation. little bit of his ideas supply and demand flexible wages competition free trade anti monopolies household economics ( microeconomics) basic public good (infrastructure/education/defense) realist on foreign policy

[@prschuster]

I'm very definitely a socialist (economically left) but I'm moderate on racial and sexual politics. The 1619 project is too race reductionist for me, and I see the need for acknowledging men's issues, which are being marginalized by the current feminist movement. In short, identity politics has become too extreme for me. I'm someone without a political party as Dems have become the other corporate capitalist party with extreme idpol leanings.

[@bhg123ful]

Love this video!! Im 41 and consider myself an “old school liberal” meaning I look up to the baby boomer liberal/left-wing elders such as “old school rust belt empathizing” Michael Moore, Bill Maher, Stephen Fry (a gay, Jewish Brit who is a Shakespearean actor who has explains the benefit of a constitutional monarchy) Roger Waters of Pink Floyd and many others who got their start in movements of the 60s and 70s. I just like old stuff and tradition people!! I only want to reform institutions just the minimal amount necessary to be inclusive. I don’t want anyone to be forced to do or not do anything! I understand as a guy I don’t understand pregnancy so of course I’ll always defer to woman when it comes to abortion, I don’t want anything to prevent gay people from being married to the one they love (I stopped being a homophobe at 11 years old when Freddie Mercury of Queen died of AIDS). And became open to marijuana legalization when we’ll . . I learned it largely inspired so much good music. We don’t need control freak, diversity, equity, and inclusion consultants to mandate trainings at work and school. Empathy just comes with spending time with others different from us like any normal person! I just don’t want to ever be pressured in to the dating my time with gender studies courses! Anyways rant over. I became a liberal/left leaning individual on opposition to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, because I didn’t like rampant building and development of open spaces, because Michael Moore convinced me we can have universal healthcare like Western European countries and still be acknowledge Marxism is not good (capitalist in wealth creation, but socialist in wealth distribution, especially with big tech. Big tech are the true oligarchs, unlike Henry Ford 100 years ago, their industries don’t actually create good jobs for the masses), and empathized/sympathized with Occupy Wall Street. But the service past few years really tested my political leanings, ESPECIALLY 2020. Anyways rant over. Hopefully this an understanding that builds more and more.

[@electrosonicnebula]

While focusing on reestablishing some sort of better wealth distribution is probably a good strategy, it's a stretch to pigeonhole low-middle and low income workers as "economically left", whatever their cultural views. That assumes a class struggle that has never actually existed in practice in this country, while being perhaps more alive in Europe. Part of the equation is that, in the popular mind, trickle down economics has not been repudiated. This means that the poor believe the patronizing attitudes of the rich telling them that the free market is still there to save them, if only the "left" does not stand in the way. If you observe the Jan. 6th rioters, these were people with sufficient income to wear relatively expensive clothing, have travelled long distances in cars, etc, but they were also people who were angry not just culturally, not just because a black man had recently been president and an election was supposedly stolen, but also because their standard of living has dropped. Despite this, this group continues to have enormous faith in trickle down theory, a part of the American psyche that's linked to anti-communism and being against big government: to them only the free market - and no measure of progressivism or democratic socialism - will restore their lost relative economic comfort. They believe the progressive agenda will destroy their economy and well-being exactly as supposedly happened in the Soviet Union. They hang on to this notion taught to them by their parents and Reagan. It follows that you are not left-wing by default just because you're relatively poor, and you shouldn't be. There is no such thing as the economic left because there is no Marxist class struggle, as simple as that. Nothing even resembling it. Although cultural issues do get mixed in and create some confusion (abortion and pacifism, for instance, despite their links to conservatism, are fundamentally *not* economic or left-right issue). "Left versus right" ought to remain primarily about veering of your own free will, and to the extent you desire, in the direction of socialism and capitalism. The poor have every right to be right-wing and the rich have every right to be left-wing, especially as this involves transcending one's condition and adopting a political stance that's not necessarily solely based on one's own state of affairs, i.e. not voting with your wallet is the basis for solidarity, which is just as legitimately a part of democracy as anything else.

[@n0wheregrrl]

I'm glad this is at least being discussed, but I don't like the implication that the "socially moderate" portion is something that necessarily needs to be "moved." As basically an anarcho-communist myself, I'm definitely very left economically, and _at one time not long ago,_ I'd have counted as left socially as well. However, that pendulum has swung so radically far that now we're seeing things like biological males competing in women's sports and certain selective forms of racism (individual and institutional alike) being acceptable, as long as they target the people it's okay to express racism against. I can't sign on to these new things because I don't support misogyny and racism even when they're culturally acceptable, so in today's world, I guess I count as "culturally moderate," but I don't see that as a fault or something to "fix." On the contrary, I submit that not _all_ "progress" is automatically good. I wouldn't have understood this at one time in my life, but there are occasions where conservativism _actually has some merit,_ where we should stop and ask ourselves first _why_ things are as they are now before we go blindly changing them and knocking down all existing social conventions and protections. We also need to ask ourselves how often these extreme cultural issues and sudden extreme changes get the poor and working class hating and fighting one another ... and how often _that's exactly the point._

[@Xsqber1234]

I could agree with some of that. We need a prosperous economy that benefits the middle and working class with law and order and security. I hate the wokeness.

[@corneliuscapitalinus845]

If you're not willing to compromise on the other issues then what the hell is even the point. It's just posturing.

[@wojosquad4680]

Due to being a deeply Catholic im very socially conservative, i oppose abortions, euthanasia, gay marriage, contraceptives such as birth control and oh yeah pornograpy But on economics im very progressive, i support trade unions, UBI, Medicare for all, a 30 dollar minimum wage, a land vaule tax, a wealth cap on a million dollars and more, a cancellation of all student loan and household debt and a nationalization of our energy and banking sectors

[@CC-kj4yc]

Damm, you really took the worst views from both sides lmao

[@NoxAeterna-wf4iv]

@@wojosquad4680 🤣🤣🤣 Now, i am seriously debating on the validity of the so-called "Socialist" magazine Jacobin. I mean if they have supporters like you, everyone from the Left should rethink about this magazine. 😷

[@NoxAeterna-wf4iv]

@@CC-kj4yc right? 🤣 The first Para is seriously messed up. "I'm a Catholic (Garbage) and I don't support basic human rights for women and minorities because it doesn't suit my religious agenda" 🤣🤣

[@wojosquad4680]

My views have moderated a bit

[@justinlevy274]

I am economically very left but culturally center left or moderate. One of the problems is the growth of polarization on cultural issues makes it difficult to not be a moderate. I don't think we should build a wall but I also don't think we should have an unattended border. That by default puts me in the center of the issue. I think trans people should be treated with respect and acceptance but they shouldn't be competing in womens sports, there are clearly way too many advantages. I agree with most of the tenets of feminism but look at their response to the military draft.

[@absolutelycitron1580]

If you think trans women ain't women and trans men ain't men then you don't actually respect trans people.

[@justinlevy274]

@@absolutelycitron1580 Trans women are trans women, if they were biologically born women you wouldn't specify trans before saying women. They designate themselves as trans. How many women have you dated? How many trans women have you dated? The point remains that in sports they have a massive advantage.

[@BillyBobDulles]

@@absolutelycitron1580 I know multiple trans woman/men who call themselves trans woman/menI’m pretty sure It’s just personal preference/philosophy

[@benp4877]

Exactly.

[@tomover9905]

Very good presentation

[@pennyandrews3292]

I think the politics of both parties is actually pretty tribal and not consistent with any particular economic policies. I bet if a Republican politician were to offer Medicare for All while claiming that national security and the threat of China requires us to take public health seriously, and point out the economic benefits of investing in preventative care, the Democrats in congress and the media could very well call that politician a fascist or Nazi who displays xenophobic attitudes towards China, and double down on restoring the individual mandate calling it an "anti-fascist" policy. Not saying it's that likely to happen, but given the kind of messaging we see from both parties, it's within the realm of possibility.

[@tonyzheng2347]

That fits my description. Both sides are too focus on the "culture war". Maybe it is easier to rally populism this way instead of creating economic plans

[@Ryanrobi]

I am also working class and come from very poor backround along with my family now we are working class middle class and white collar middle to wealthy class. So I personally have my best friends and family in each bubble and do most of the translation. I always have found it fascinating how left wing economical elites never think to talk to or understand who they want to awaken and unite to help them out. I guess I am left wing enough to not understand why we are concerned about working class people in America? Working class ppl in America are by historical and current global standards very wealthy and top 1%, why are we not mostly concerned with helping the global poor? Working class Americans like myself are soooo much better off, I couldn't care less that wealthy people are wealthy, how does that affect me? I am much more concerned with the few hundred million that can afford a bowl of rice then some American who want to go from $25 he to $27 hr at some factory. Can someone please explain to me why left wing politics are mostly concerned with making the top 1% globally more equal to the top .001% and not the other 99% in ways that actually help them? Seems to me like what they actually care about is more material goods for themselfs this greed and not helping ppl worse off by no fault of their own.

[@ryanmurphy7168]

Bruh i thought this video was gonna be her explaining why jacobin is economically left, socially moderate

[@IjwPetersen]

can you imagine?? well i guess you did imagine... nvm

[@chidorirasenganz]

@@IjwPetersen 😂😂😂

[@globalhumanism]

I strongly suspect that as self-identified socialists, they're just focused on economic issues and hate it when the "cultural" ones get all of the attention, especially the high-BS ones. Would you be shocked that a self-identified feminist group focused on sex and gender issues? An antiwar group focused on preventing/ending wars? An ecologist group on global warming? LGBTQ? Antiracist? Anti-homelessness? Anti-child abuse? Oh right, these last two hardly ever get any oxygen at all. But imagine if they had a chance at some. What would they focus on?

[@BradSamuelsPro]

I love this show. Jacobin is saving me from identifying as centrist in the age of bizarre racial ideologies on the left

[@raven_g6667]

I unregistered from the Democratic party after this infrastructure debacle. If they want my vote back, they'll have to earn it. I'm gonna focus on community organizing until the Dems decide to stop placating us with empty promises and pretty words from cultural issues. I don't say this to say that you should do as I do. I know some think me deciding not to vote is just helping the proto-fascists, and you're probably right. I just can't do it anymore.

[@thosethatcan]

SOIA "no labels no lies.

[@JohnPaulsonJohnisaStegosaurus]

i'm fine with reaching out to others but i don't believe in such a thing as EL/SM. the problem here is a matter of understanding the problems inherent in capitalism and communicating why such social issues are a part of that. to simply roll over and say "well, there's this group that believes this" treats these delusions as being realistic ideologies.

[@JohnPaulsonJohnisaStegosaurus]

i agree with the overall point here-- basically what i meant is that having such contradictions reveals a lack of coherent ideology, and so we should point to the contradictions and emphasize how all these things are linked. of course that coherence and awareness is on a continuum, and i fully admit i'm still learning myself.

[@emilianosintarias7337]

the problem there is what if the 'left" is often wrong on social issues, in no small part because there is not much of a left (just a bunch of scenes really)-so there perspectives are narrow. There seems to be a lot of sacred cows around "social issues", and they refuse to entertain any new perspectives, no matter the cost.

[@mochilover7053]

@@emilianosintarias7337 They're not wrong. And the absence of any actual leftists is not due to incompetence, or appeal. The reason for this is state sponsored assassinations and pinning of criminal charges on the leaders of these groups. Groups like the BPP were crawling with FBI assets leaking info, setting up major figures to be killed or charged, etc. The left is the most effective which is why they are under major repression.

[@emilianosintarias7337]

@@mochilover7053 they're wrong.You aren't thinking to the logical outcomes after the persecution/dissolution of groups like the BPP, people who were constantly learning and changing their views because they had a real goal to accomplish, are gone. After that, who CAN stick around without major repression? The opposite type of people.

[@XavierMacX]

Moderate/centrist just means 'corrupt'. We really need to change the zeitgeist on this. If you're "moderate" on the rights of other humans, you're just a monster, not a thinker.

[@hairyshoulders5866]

So you mean we shouldn't tell marginalized people to just bear their situation while we partner with odious people who are supposedly "leftist", and who also don't think they should exist? Sad that this is a controversial opinion, lmao.

[@XavierMacX]

@@hairyshoulders5866 How could you tell? Lol. Yeah... and true :(

[@kelly980]

@@hairyshoulders5866 nice strawman trolling. good thing your views are becoming irrelevant

[@benp4877]

Wow. Real subtle viewpoint, bruh

[@Ashclayton1994]

Sounds like you need to spend less time on social media and touch grass

[@stevenking6129]

Im a far leftist on ALL economic issues and some social issues. But moderate to conservative on many social issues. Im a strong supporter of same sex marriage, legalized pot, and civil rights legislation including reparations. Im pro choice for the first 12 weeks only. And with certain restrictions. I dont support sex outside marriage although obviously I wouldn't criminalize it, i hate profanity and nudity in films, and while i support it the right to bear arms it must come with reasonable restrictions. I vote Green Party for what that's worth. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@NoxAeterna-wf4iv]

@@stevenking6129 🤣🤣🤣

[@danwarb1]

It means >55.

[@robertwilsoniii2048]

Why are we only 20% of the population?! My politics are pro federal housing guarantees for all workers, medicare for all, living wages for all jobs, free college tuition for all, anti-abortion generally though I can see the appeal for higher income individuals, concerned about immigration, I support gay marriage and am concerned about climate change. I also actually want minimum wage tied to COL indexes so that if landlords raise rent they can't get away with it without wages rising to match.

[@paintedjaguar]

Sorry, but advocating for de facto unrestricted immigration is materially a right wing position, promoting Cheap Labor through both population expansion and non-assimilation. So exactly the opposite of a "bread-and-butter demand" for the type of voter she is discussing. Yet Jen lists this policy preference as one of the core principles that mustn't be "watered down". Cognitive dissonance, anyone? This mirrors so-called leftist support for Identity-based ideology like CRT and race-based preferences, or like "gay marriage" rather than civil unions for everyone. Maybe it isn't a matter of "foregrounding" or "messaging". Maybe the woke left is just plain wrong about a bunch of things.

[@pennyandrews3292]

One of the more inconvenient things to note is that at one point Sanders was against open borders and mass immigration calling it right-wing, but then Trump started talking about a border wall and suddenly the media started advocating for open borders on the basis of cultural tolerance without regard to the impact of mass immigration on wages. Contrast that with how Reagan granted amnesty to illegals, and you see that he moved the GOP economically left on that one issue. Border security was the issue he was vilified for most for taking up, and it was also the one issue that working-class people agreed with him on. Pretty funny how that worked out, huh? Suddenly it's racist to not want open borders and mass immigration... when not so long ago, a leftist would complain about downward pressure on wages and how it benefits the rich. An economic issue was transformed into a cultural issue, and then the position of the left and the right flipped. They used the left's tendency to empathy and the right's tendency to support national security to make them embrace positions that don't fit with the standard script of right-wing vs. left-wing economics... what this suggests is that this has just degenerated into tribalism and no longer has anything to do with consist economic policy or worldview.

[@griiseknoen]

The point isn't abandoning "culturally leftist" policies. The point is putting actual leftist *economical* policies in motion. The two are not in conflict with each other.

[@musafawundu6718]

I am socially moderate to conservative, but I am definitely fiscally liberal: - Gay marriage: No - Living Wage: Yes - Abortion: No - Universal Public Health Care: YES! - Strong Gun Regulation: Yes - Support of Feminism: No - Free College Tuition for those Who Qualify for it, especially in the STEM and professional fields: YES! - Gender Pronouns: No! - High Speed Railway: Yes! - Clean Energy (Renewables and Nuclear): Yes! - Equality of Opportunity: Yes - Affirmative Action: Managed - State Regulation of the Economy: Yes - Higher Taxes on Upper Income Brackets: Yes

[@NoxAeterna-wf4iv]

@@musafawundu6718 Okay, clown.🤡 Now, go read some books on socialism and communism.

[@antondalemma5484]

Conservatism is not exclusive to right and often not even an element of modern right wing movements. One of the ways I have moved folks left, if just slightly, or taken wind out of those who have knee jerk reactions to socialism is to point out the conservative realities of socialism. The definition of classic conservatism (Burkian) is too ensure status quo ... that change occurs as slowly as possible. Opening the decision making process to much larger group, as socialism demands, inherently meets that one big element of conservatism. Two, socialist economic modeling strives to eliminate "boom & bust" economics that capitalists so profit from. Moreover, those who choose socially conservative lives are not excluded from economic discussions or decisions. I also argue that right, which is has distorted the definition of conservatism, is far more invested in controlling the lives of others then socialists.

[@jamesrutherford1475]

Left - Right paradigm is completely outdated even if only linguistically. We recognise a plurality of genders but only two modalities of political orientation. It's ridiculous.

[@comradetrashpanda8777]

The left/right distinction still holds explanatory value even though that value is being undermined due to a larger crises of language itself breaking down (a much larger and terrifying crises). To "be" Left is to be anti-capitalist in the critique of and advocacy to dissolve Capitalist social relations i.e. the class structure of society (owner vs worker). To "be" Right is to support and advocate for the preservation of said social relations either through reform or increased exploitation. Anyone not seeking the abolishment of Capitalism and putting all political power into the hands of the working class is, to put it simply, not of the Left. One of the key problems within the imperial core right now is that there is no organized Left to speak of. The entirety of our political process and cultural discourse is on the Right and it's killing us

[@janosmarothy5409]

Respectfully, you should know actually that "moving beyond left and right" is actually a right-wing frame. Also no one on the left "recognizes infinite genders," whatever that means exactly. Over the past quarter century or so, the only people who talk about "transcending" the left/right understanding are to a man either all right-wing cranks (this was a huuuge leitmotif for Alex Jones back in the day, don't know if it still is) or different types of more politically amorphous cranks who falsely think vaguely anti-establishment sentiment is the ground for any kind of coherent politics that "unites the bottom against the top" i.e. Jimmy Dore. As the other commenter said, in the simplest possible terms, to be on the Left is to be against capitalism and to be on the Right is to be for its preservation. From there, we enter into endless albeit important discussions about strategy and history, but that's the most barebones version.

[@jamesrutherford1475]

@@janosmarothy5409 I was being facetious, perhaps I should have wrote "plurality". I am not mocking the concept, just acknowledging it is constantly expanding, unlike the framework we allow for the public discourse of politics. Which you have just demonstrated perfectly.

[@janosmarothy5409]

​@@jamesrutherford1475 And I'm fine with that framework. I'll put it to you in Marxist terms: capitalism admits all kinds cultural and political structures. Capitalism can exist with social democracies, absolute monarchies, theocracies, military dictatorships, industrialized societies, agrarian societies, etc. Ditto with religion, with family structures, with gender, and on and on. But what remains constant is the worker-capitalist relationship that, depending on local historical conditions, will generate all kinds of different sociopolitical expressions, from the type of government to cultural notions about gender. So if the conceptual frame is "do you want to keep or reject the economic status quo that shapes the general contours of a society and its culture?" that forces you into some sort of binary axis, aka the left-right framework.

[@thosethatcan]

1:40 🤔👁️😎👍💁

[@patrickchampion8179]

I'm from the north east of England - I'd reckon most voters here fit the "economically left but socially moderate to conservative" description (including me). For decades the Labour party dominated but recently the party's support has collapsed and now they barely beat the Conservatives across the region. Unfortunately there's little sign of either party actually trying to appeal to us - the Tories have faux populism while Labour just seem to care about social issues nowadays...

[@BrianMarshall1]

One huge problem is that many of those cultural issues are contrived or manufactured. Six months ago how many libs/lefties/dems etc. were ready to debate critical race theory? Does it matter that most of the rhetoric around it from the right is just a big lie. So we're stuck in a debate where we need to read 5 books just to understand a topic that isn't actually taught in K-12 or even to the vast majority of college students. Our local schoolboard was taken over by right wingers under the guise of stopping some leftist CRT takeover. Ultimately their goals seem more in like with the 1776 project. Even if the left can moderate the rhetoric on this issues the right will just make up a new one.

[@ynotlearn4190]

I have no interest in forming coalitions with people that are different than myself. You are either with me or against me!

[@ILikeVideos62]

Is this communitarianism?

[@link8689]

I am a social moderate/ economic left she very wrong I support civil liberties am ok with gay civil union, because social moderate neither liberal or conservative but mix with both views. she wrong again about economics she define left as progressive economics it is not. am economic liberal (left) am pro education pro infrastructure pro defense because of basic public good. I support start-up business, social safety net. I value experience and reason. I believe tax high income earners because of the ability to pay more. I do believe taxes should be low for everyone. by the way I did went to college. you are bias and racist for your stereotyping for confusing social conservative for moderate views.

[@thosethatcan]

Ffs these Bs kkkrypto ads..meghhh cash is best..

[@michaeldavis8103]

Yeah nah, maybe try being a, well you know pro-working class advocate before worrying about the "new left" issues, like wtf, how did socialists jut let this happen.

[@whatiskungfan]

and you are pretty much talking about China.

[@realdanrusso]

Jacobin... Ya'll have got to stop with your left moralism against focusing on the cultural realm. We get it, identity politics is annoying. But it is ABSURD for you to say that the major difference between Democrats and Republicans today lies mostly in the cultural realm. All but 2 Democrats were on board for a massive $3.5 trillion bill that was almost entirely focused on the economy and public healthcare.

[@FreshCutLettuce]

It's naive to believe that they would have let it pass if only Cinema was on board. They take turns voting down popular bills so they can tell their constituents that they tried.

[@realdanrusso]

@@FreshCutLettuce I dont know, I think thats an incredibly conspiratorial view that i dont think is true. i can tell by your use of 'they', as if there's a 'they' that legitimately coordinates like "okay guys, here's the plan. this time it'll be sinema and manchin, next time we'll do klobuchar and feinstein!"

[@realdanrusso]

to be clear i think conspiracies can be true regarding capital and politics, but not this one

[@ablindwatchmakerUT]

Mathew is right. They intentionally design these bills knowing they will fail, and they usually fill them with stupid shit that they know will piss off conservatives and moderates while not actually fixing anything.

[@realdanrusso]

@@ablindwatchmakerUT oh my bad! if u say hes right he must be

[@oiytd5wugho]

Socially moderate just means being a massive bigot. Go and prioritize winning when you run for office, sure, but don't expect folks to work with people who oppose equal rights. You can be tired of culture wars but they decide what marginalized people are and are not allowed to do. I'm not gonna try to get John I-dunno-about-this-trans-business on board.

[@wildrice8199]

If you get him on board he'll be more likely to come around to your way of thinking on trans stuff because he views you as a fellow working class brother/sister instead of a tribal enemy. And culture wars don't determine what you're allowed to do or not do, power does. Let Republicans win, they will pass bathroom bills. You win, you can pass trans-affirming laws instead.

[@kelly980]

We're all crying not to you on board.

[@benp4877]

Right. Thanks for accidentally illustrating why we lose.

[@Based_Proletariat]

Time is wasted trying to win over soft bigots (cough cough) "social moderates" it's a fools errand, just like trying to ally with "right wing populists".

[@globalhumanism]

Not just in the US. Especially in many countries outside the US. Most, I would hazard to guess. Even the one implied in your handle. And the one closest to it (apart from disputed クリル列島) There are many who throw "God-ordained" around in the second. MANY. But not in the first. Yet still ... If you're familiar with conditions in either of those, that might radically recontextualize the discussion. Then think about, say, Uganda, Nigeria, El Salvador -- (came to mind cause I know a wee bit about those) or anywhere with "Islam" in its constitution. Global playing field.

[@john-lenin]

Don’t whitewash bigotry by calling it Moderat or Fascism by calling it Conservative

[@dannyevilcat]

What a ridiculous take

[@FreshCutLettuce]

Astroturfing hard lol

[@trivialqed]

whats a conservative from ur point of view then?

[@jamesoakes1819]

Antifa flag avatar tells us everything we need to know. Have fun getting into pointless fights with a bunch of yee yees and never achieving any serious political goals.

[@tadjani5191]

Anytime racist Cale Brooks comes on, I turn off.

[@kelly980]

bye

[@jamesoakes1819]

you're the real racist

[@nataliekhanyola5669]

Why do you think he is racist? What did he do?

[@john-lenin]

Jesus fucking Christ - Let’s legitimize bigotry.