Jade City: Spoiler-free & Spoiler Review | 2 To Ramble

[@2ToRamble]

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[@dportnov]

This review has me convinced that I might actually like Name of the Wind.

[@slidenaway]

Daaaaaaaamn sick burn lmao

[@jaishans]

@@dportnov ❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥

[@myfriendmademereadit]

Let's be honest, Richard would call Austin "Kitten" unironically and probably does in secret...

[@BenjiGlassKey]

It's true, I've seen it.

[@Arialrayreads]

I mean, Austin is a kitten! 🐈‍⬛

[@felder1122]

i offer both of you a clean blade

[@slidenaway]

And my axe

[@jweather66]

Oh nooo something is up with Richard's microphone or recording volume. From like the 29 min mark onwards there's some kind of issue with the volume decreasing over random intervals. Even when Austin's mic works. I'm at 36 min now and it's cutting in and out lol

[@papaflow3116]

2toramble editor here. So sorry about that! It was a known issue that we fixed throughout the ladder half of the episode. But some of it snuck through. Thanks for leaving the comment letting us know! 🙏 - Nick

[@Bluenamii]

I love the Greenbone Saga, but I respect how you don't dilute your negative opinions to make people happy.

[@Ak1193]

How dare you. This series is perfection! Where is the nearest pitchfork store?

[@qbanboi069]

7 minutes in, and I'm invested in the small little war Rich and Austin are having with the placement of the book

[@supermayo8a]

NOOOO I HAVE NOT UNLOCKED THIS FULL EPISODE YET! Gotta read this FAST AF

[@erinjackobssss]

This series is so loved by so many people and I just did not enjoy it, so this is refreshing to watch

[@slidenaway]

Hoo boy… this is disappointing lol Spoilers ahoy (for this book only obviously) So I just read the whole trilogy like a month ago. Loved it, and agree with the apparent consensus that the books get better further into the trilogy But I did love Jade City. And I do agree with some of your complaints. Shae at the beginning was useless - of course she was going to rejoin the clan business. And I had serious issues with how she thought being in Janloon WITHOUT being in the clan business could ever work. Also didn’t super connect to Anden. However, those issues were trivial in the face of how much everything else ruled. Let’s go through some points: - the world felt *real* to me. Very built out and lived in. - the plot grabbed me and Lan dying 1/3 of the way in was an “oh shit” moment that, even tho I wasn’t super connected to Lan as a character, really made me wanna know what the hell else would happen, and it was just shocking in an awesome way - jade is more than a drug. Do drugs give you actual superpowers??? Of course not. It’s also super integrated into the culture and world. Also it has real world significance and history in Asia that you guys might’ve missed. Point being I don’t at all understand the worldbuilding complaints - and as for the… extremely nitpicky complaints you both had about not just show don’t tell but telling in the “wrong way” or not leaving enough mystery or whatever - I hear the complaint and I say you didn’t meet the book and writing where it is. It’s okay not to like that style, but you both talked about it like it’s almost objectively a bad style. I didn’t have your issues at all, because I was generally interested in the characters, plot, and world, so I always wanted to know more about what’s going on and what might happen. So it’s possible that your lack of connection to almost anything kind of compounded on itself to make the prose an issue? Idk if that makes sense Anyway I’m glad you’re reading on and I look forward to you both saving your own asses by loving Jade War!!!

[@AndrewFrancisIlyrian]

Shut up. Nobody cares

[@kennyclips658]

10:13 Austin trying to sneak in his real rating of the book

[@cleanstitches]

I tried to get into this book three times for book club, and I just couldn’t.

[@jakecarlstad6192]

Love this book! Characters all felt super real to me and love the action

[@uzi888]

Spoiler warning: Shae's experience of leaving the family and coming back connected with me on too many levels. I could feel her anxiety about her failure in a foreign country because she fought hard to go there. I think its a matter of being part of the diaspora away from home and family in a different culture. Theres thousands of examples of people settled perfectly away from the family because they didnt want to continue within the family business or legacy, but came back in an instant if the family needed them. I suppose it is a eastern thing or a diaspora/immigrant thing. I completely connected with Shae's experience.

[@AndrewFrancisIlyrian]

Fonda Lee should have written a slice of life story like Past Days if she wanted to explore that. Instead she wrote a female Michael Corleone and made a bad character out of it.

[@jaishans]

I have accomplished my goal! I have convinced Richard to read on! Richard, my friend, take your expectations of show don't tell, put it in a box, take it out later. This is a different type of storytelling.

[@slidenaway]

Yeah I feel they definitely struggled to meet the book where it is

[@RalphNC09]

Different type of storytelling? What do you mean, that its like an art novel? Like a really fancy one?

[@patrickspencer5033]

It was better than red rising book 1

[@AndrewFrancisIlyrian]

So was my latest piss.

[@uzi888]

Nerdy take from a Godfather and a Green bone Nerd: I understand that there is need in humans to compare art to something that was created in the past. However, I sincerely believe that when people say that it is Godfather in a modern setting with magic, they are wrong 😎. That is unfair to the Green Bone Saga and the Godfather. Ofcourse we can crowbar some elements to match it to Godfather but honour, turf war, revenge, family legacy, loyalty, organized crime etc are not just the purview of the Godfather. Anything that has gangster elements does not automatically make the Godfather. There are several other reasons but you know its a comments section. I know its finicky, pedantic and mighty be an unnecessary take 🙂 but hey its fun to be finicky and pedantic. If Fonda Lee her self calls it that, than I am completely wrong. I bow at the feet for the author. love you guys

[@fidato_]

It's a character driven story. It's not fantasy. My best read of the year.

[@jamesbowman639]

wait you guys liked Red Rising and not this?

[@vigilantScrivener]

So, this is one of my favorite trilogies. I read Jade City at the start of my post college reading years so maybe I’d be more critical on a reread, but generally this book was selling everything I wanted. Minus the whimsy of Ryu ga Gotoku, it definitely scratched the Yakuza series itch. Probably one of the most vivid settings on the level of the cosmere for me.

[@AndrewFrancisIlyrian]

Nobody asked.

[@slidenaway]

@@AndrewFrancisIlyriango troll elsewhere

[@meganega123]

Giving this 2/5 makes me wonder what rating you would give an objectively bad book. I think we can agree that it is written in a competent way by a professional author. Like, when I read a book with 3 typos on every other page, that's objectively bad. I like that you're keeping it real and give your honest opinions though.

[@GelidPrince]

I don't think their rating is really about a books prose. Just how much they enjoyed it.

[@alexbigday1587]

1:21 Richard changing mr. Eame's name from Nicholas to "Christopher" 🎉🎉🎉

[@lodiac]

Ouuuf! I kinda agree with you guys but the 2/5 is kind of a harsh rating. I think 3 might be more fitting. My argument is, if Jade City is 2.0 what would fourth wing or some of terry goodkind books rating be. in my book it would be a flat 0. Still agree with most of your points tho (still listening)

[@vrindam1247]

I feel the family drama in The Greenbone Saga is very asian coded. Maybe that's why a lot of western readers just can't relate to that. When I read the trilogy, I remember thinking "Oh this is such an asian thing. It's a good way to expose western readers to asian culture". Adding after listening to the emotional impact part - Yup. That's it! All of the issues are because it's written from an Asian perspective and cultural nuances are lost in translation.

[@AndrewFrancisIlyrian]

And why would I care about rice pickers and their culture?

[@shughes5778]

Honestly, as the whitest of Irish/General European ancestry American, I very much understood the dynamics. People from families that always accepted them for whatever they did (I suppose the average podcaster 😂), don't relate the same.

[@ilyashussein5972]

You just hand wave the criticism in this way. A lot of stories are set in vastly different settings or cultural backgrounds. It's more about the writing at points especially with how the characters are presented which is not enjoyable. They're not interesting.

[@AndrewFrancisIlyrian]

It's actually just poorly written. Stop coping.

[@vrindam1247]

@ilyashussein5972 oh I'm not waiving the criticism off, nor am I defending the book. It was just an observation on what could possibly be the reason for the differing opinions on characters.

[@marino2028]

Haven't even watched the video yet, but judging by the thumbnail.... how dare you. Richard, Austin. Stand ready. Janloon, dawn. Blades, drawn.

[@tedhekman]

100% agree with you men on this one. Jade City reviews are one of my barometers for "should I trust this book tube critic" as it seems very clearly to be a 2 star book for someone who enjoys the same speculative fiction I do. You really nailed the spoiler and spoiler-free reviews...well done!

[@dhnybadger]

I'll come back to this once I finish the book. Just bought a week ago haha.

[@YoungBlackthorn]

Finally found people I agree with on this book. This book encapsulates the idea of "Mid" to me. I even tried going further to book 2 but just couldn't do it. Though I must confess, for book 2 I had to switch to its audiobook due to reasons and I was coming off from the masterclass Steven Pacey's First Law narration so I really couldn't connect with the jade war narrator.

[@PM-uv7ot]

Fonda Lee also mentioned in an interview that jade isn’t a magical element, it’s more of a resource

[@AndrewFrancisIlyrian]

So it's a magical resource.

[@BrownTown89]

And sometimes timing can ruin a book for you. Does for me sometimes. You're just not in the mood, where if you was in the mood. You would have enjoyed it more.

[@BoilingKoolaid]

Looking for Wind and Truth discussions since I finished it.

[@TekEffekt]

Did you end up liking it?

[@BoilingKoolaid]

@ yes. It was long, but I feel like it gave me everything I was hoping for. I listened to the Audible book, so I don’t know all the spelling for all the characters, but Seth and Wit are my highlights for the book, while Kaladin and Shallon kinda stepped down for me because of the nature of their characters. I get why they are how they are, but it just moved them from my spot as favorite characters. My biggest disappointment was hearing that the next book was coming in 2033. Sure we’ll get plenty of written works from Sanderson, but that’s a long time to get more Stormlight.

[@noname3609]

One of the best trilogies out there ! so good ! :D

[@thebookthatnooneread]

I’m only 10% into the audiobook and tbh it really isn’t working for me. I don’t think this is my kind of book. The hype got me to start it, but I’ll probably never finish it. 🤷‍♀️

[@alexanderlavoie5461]

Even Richard's mic didn't want to listen to his bad takes.

[@jariel2568]

I AM COMING FOR YOU RAMBLE HOW DARE YOU NOT LIKE I BOOK I LIKE

[@sabo-archipelago5520]

ROFL I love yall just rolling with the bloopers

[@willp2877]

Love it when y'all review something that I sense is not to my taste and I can revel in the spoiler talk and pat myself on the back for knowing my own sensibilities. But then again I love Malazan and hate Red Rising.. soooo. It's not a perfect science.

[@Mermer-16]

You hit on all the reasons why this book unfortunately didn't work for me either.

[@samuelchant3082]

This is the first opinion you both have shared that I just can't agree with on any level but lets see if you convince me. Will say it is still my least favourite of the trilogy.

[@AndrewFrancisIlyrian]

Nobody asked.

[@jakecarlstad6192]

​@@AndrewFrancisIlyrian nobody asked you either

[@slidenaway]

@@jakecarlstad6192this guy is sad, attempting to troll all over this comments section

[@alexanderlavoie5461]

@@AndrewFrancisIlyrian How many comments are you going to chime in on? You aren't changing hearts and minds here.

[@titantv4567]

That was very interesting because I always felt like this book is very unanimously loved, I even remember on Sanderson's podcast, when they were talking about the best living authors, Dan Wells put Fonda Lee at number 1. Maybe it's one of those stories where if it fits your taste, you absolutely love it. If it doesn't, you don't really care for it. I personally have never been compelled by crime/mafia dramas and never plan on reading it, but I had this perception that is very good. So it was very interesting to hear from you guys.

[@AndrewFrancisIlyrian]

Fonda Lee is Asian and book community is very progressive so they boost colored authors.

[@jakecarlstad6192]

​@@AndrewFrancisIlyrianWhat the fuck dude? How about some people just genuinely like the series.

[@slidenaway]

@@AndrewFrancisIlyriangtfo with your culture war BS

[@AndrewFrancisIlyrian]

​@@slidenawayproving my point.

[@abdullahisayuti6698]

Personally just couldn't get into this book in like 3 attempts so far so I've made my peace with it it being for me.

[@katherinep1010]

You guys are just solidifying the 'not for me' impression I already had oft his book I have not read.

[@darckcyborg]

Ouch guys, OUCH

[@sethmegginson5678]

While the Green Bone Saga wasn’t my favorite series I actually thought it was really well written. I honestly think Jade War is the weakest of the three (feel like the 2nd book never stepped up the stakes) but really liked Legacy. Would agree I never really felt attached to any characters early on in the series (Hilo came close several times) but do think you will feel more strongly for them by book 3.

[@PM-uv7ot]

I love your channel. Is there a “get to know me” video? E.g. the story of how you became friends, whose library is that on the background etc

[@Elijah_Gillard]

They both of personally test episodes and it's mostly Richards books and Rich's library

[@TedReadInstead]

"This book is bad." "Use the affiliate link below to purchase your very own copy!" I enjoyed the trilogy immensely and I didn't think I would. I found her character work very well done as well as the subtle magic system and worldbuilding.

[@AndrewFrancisIlyrian]

Gay

[@deelak2329]

It gets much much better

[@jmojoseph577]

This was one of my favorite series this year! But I knew you guys wouldn’t like it. 😂 I was emotionally attached to these characters tho. I will say the 2nd & 3rd books are better!

[@michaelaporee260]

Idk why everyone hates on jade city. It is the weakest book in the trilogy, but it is still really good imo

[@bill8856]

Wow. This is one of my very few hard disagrees with you guys (probably just this book and Empire of Silence which I think is far better than you guys gave it credit for). I get some of your points, however, and appreciate your honesty. The second 2 books in this series are definitely better, but Jade City is easily a 4/5 book. Maybe even a little higher, like a 4.2 or 4.3. Jade Way and Jade Legacy being absolute banger 5/5 books. This trilogy, as a whole, beats Mistborn, in my opinion. I strongly suggest finishing it.

[@supernormal1143]

Commenting for algorithm. This is a very validating take. Its nice when i also wasnt in love with the book.

[@BrownTown89]

I read this. And didn't instantly want to read the next so....maybe one day I will continue the series. I might like it the older I get lol

[@rextherunt3135]

I refunded the first book on audible, something I've done twice in 10 years.

[@sawtoothhorse]

I read the first book and liked it well enough but two things happened in Jade War is short time that i disliked and I dropped it immediately and won't be returning

[@passdoutcouchpotatos]

Honestly agree, This book was so uninteresting to me

[@robertpatenaude]

Read the whole trilogy this year only because of all the hype. Overall was good, but a letdown considering all that hype. And to call it fantasy? Very light on the fantasy and more about the family struggles and battles. The Godfather? Kind of I guess? Be well, stay safe!

[@battlestarkoala]

I have felt so lonely until now. I have read all three books and enjoyed reading them and discussing them with my book club .. but I really did NOT like the books at all. Everyone always makes me feel weird because I don't like it. That being said, I loved Mistborn Era 2 way more than Era 1 .. and I did NOT like this series at all ... Sorry

[@Robda5ft_]

Shae will always be my least fav character 😂 book 1 and 2 are okay but I loved book 3

[@BookishOwl2]

Ratings are nonsense. Just tell us what you think.

[@bookdmb]

Hilo is gangsta

[@Road_Too_12]

Yeah I thought it was just boring and the magic system wasn’t great at all. Only made it through the first two books, but just couldn’t get myself to read the last one

[@kingdonsobek]

1:17:24 total war already exists lol. It’s a military tactic

[@PM-uv7ot]

I’m sure you’ll like the next books in the series

[@nexuszen769]

I actually somewhat liked Jade City. Jade War is AWFUL.

[@PM-uv7ot]

@ I’m biased, I loved the whole trilogy, but I think a lot of aspects and character motivations that were mentioned in the video get addressed in the next books

[@RalphNC09]

I also didnt like this book. It started off good for me, but then the way the worldbuilding was delivered really dragged down the story in the second half. I didn't connect with the characters too much either.

[@silverx_1848]

Wrong, it is the best 🥰

[@maxt5319]

Debatable

[@silverx_1848]

@@maxt5319 I think I could release a stormlight sized book on all the greenbone debates I've had 🤣

[@maxt5319]

​@@silverx_1848 You should be well-primed for this video, then 😂

[@Christian-ut2sp]

Oh you both hate the book? Great, that means I should buy it

[@SamLucht]

Where’s the Wind and Truth review??

[@mohammedzayyancarrim228]

Although I wish we got to see the Lan- drug addiction story play out, I really liked the fact that he died early. It gave a bigger sense of realism that we never truly know when we’re gonna die and in reality not everyone gets to fulfill their character arc. It also kept me on the my edge of my seat for the rest of the trilogy because if the “main” character can die just as his story arc is becoming interesting anyone can.

[@slidenaway]

YES. Agreed on all points - while it feels like we missed out, the purpose it served was awesome

[@PhineasPlauche]

This is my favorite series, I see why you don't like it, I just disagree. I do understand some of your points but book 2 is amazing and book 3 is my favorite book of all time.

[@TheDiabeticGameMaster]

Oooooh, the Many Nations? So many fantasy authors who want their world to sound "gritty" use basic, bland wording like that. Ever since the Witcher called its landmass "the Continent" and ASoIaF has "West continent, East continent, Southern continent and Planet named Planet" ppl have been sticking with it. And I just HATE that. It sooooo lazy, doesn't really work, often takes your reader out of the world AND is just incongruous with the love of worldbuilding I otherwise see in these series. Like, seriously, if the people in your world have unique names for their people, cities, magic, and everything else, they probably fucking named the place they live as well. And, if the issue is that they only think about their local area and have no concept of the Continent or Country as a whole then JUST LEAVE IT UNNAMED! PLEASE!

[@jakecarlstad6192]

Man you'd hate that we have a North and South America

[@TheDiabeticGameMaster]

@jakecarlstad6192 lol, no, no. That's the sort of thing we should have more of in Fantasy. Yes, naming them both America is kind of boring, however, they were named America after Amerigo Vespucci for a variety of reasons. Id love it if instead of The Continent it was named Central Billville or something like that, cuz Bill founded it, lol

[@MrCian47]

Surprising, this is a top notch trilogy.

[@jasonadade4498]

Jade City is awesome! What’s not to like? It’s like the Godfather mixed with Avatar the Last Airbender. Emotional and action packed.

[@AndrewFrancisIlyrian]

What is there to like? Likable characters? No. Interesting conflict or factions? No. Good writing? No.

[@jasonadade4498]

@ read it again

[@AndrewFrancisIlyrian]

​@@jasonadade4498not emotional and the action is uninteresting and badly written.

[@komandrjo]

It's okay to like it, but objectively it lacks in a lot of areas 😅

[@JustAnotherReader6]

Jade Legacy is by far the worst book in the Trilogy in my opinion. She moves away from the characters and focuses on Jade politics. Do not waste your time IF you were reading to get more clan battles and family drama because you won't get it.

[@noname3609]

Unpopular oppinion.Most people love Jade Legacy including myself.The timeline is executed so well.

[@Benjamin-w41]

I absolutely loved books 1 and 2 (especially 2) and then liked book 3 significantly less due to pretty much the reasons you mentioned, @JustAnotherReader6. Yes, I know that many people consider it the best installment of the trilogy and I can see why. It unfortunately wasn't the case for me. I'd say on booktube, there are actually quite a few people that liked Jade Legacy the least.

[@AndrewFrancisIlyrian]

​@@noname3609Jews being considered human beings was considered an unpopular opinion in Germany. What is your point?

[@noname3609]

@@AndrewFrancisIlyrian nazis,rasism,discrimination... My point is most people and God Tier booktubers love Jade Legacy and its also my personal favourite book in the trilogy,its sad some ppl hate it.☺️

[@JustAnotherReader6]

@noname3609 I am glad the triology ending worked for you, but to me the time jumps and the politics killed any character development. Another unpopular opinion, I really disliked Empire of Silence BUT will continue based on the recent Howling Dark review they just had.

[@Silver_Girl178]

I DNF'ed this book way before the 200-page mark-- it sounds like it's just "The Blind Banker: season 1, episode 2 of "Sherlock," with a little bit of urban fantasy thrown in -- but, to be fair, "The Many Nations War," sounds like phrasing that was deliberately made clunky so that it would sound like it was an old concept being translated from another language. The only thing that I'm mildly curious about-- because Jade seems a little bit like The Skill, from the Farseer series-- is who is using the synthetic form of Jade to give the old patriarch "Dementia," and why? What does he know? Was he the one who originally created the synthetic compound, or just the one keeping it on the shelf, out of the public sphere, until now?

[@johnmoore6440]

You gotta keep going!! I didn’t like the first book but the rest get much much better!

[@Haarwyvern]

I think this is overrated (like most book on booktune honestly, First Law trilogy is such a disappointment rn) but I still find the book cool. Like 6.5 or 7/10

[@sihmp5067]

blasphemy

[@ashleyholbird4287]

My review for jade city: 5/5 loved the characters, loved the mafia style stuff, loved THAT scene with Lan. Rest of the series: Jade war: boring until the last 1/3 of the book 3/5 Jade Legacy: plot device didnt work for me, and i called the ending halfway through the book. Fonda Lee didnt have what it took to keep up with the masterpiece that is the first book. But its still a trilogy id reccomend. Im genuinely in the minority that just didnt think the other two were that good

[@MrCian47]

Don’t think I’ve ever seen this take before.

[@slidenaway]

@@MrCian47I think Jimmy Nutts from Fantasy Nuttwork had similar feelings. Although I think he liked Jade War better. But he also really struggled with Legacy 😬

[@MrCian47]

@@slidenaway struggling with Legacy I can maybe (somewhat) understand given the change in structure. But War is a top tier fantasy book in my opinion.