Why is Stratford So Complicated?

The DLR, the Underground, the Overground, the Elizabeth line and National Rail - how did Stratford get like this?
Ko-Fi: ko-fi.com/jagohazzard
Patreon: / jagohazzard

[@ESquirez]

@jago hazard thank you. I can’t believe you actually did a video based on my Starford request. Well done 👏🏿

[@jackiespeel6343]

A case of many people having the same query and collective telepathy?

[@UltimateAzumanger]

Starford: A new district of London. Star Lane is the main street of this district, with lots of shops and restaurants.

[@PeterShieldsukcatstripey]

Good idea.

[@thesteelrodent1796]

@@UltimateAzumanger sounds like it would be a stellar place

[@emjackson2289]

@@UltimateAzumanger Can't help but be a success JAPN!

[@PopeLando]

1:28 I love a carriage that dates from so early in railway history it looks like three horse-drawn stagecoaches glued together.

[@highpath4776]

They were

[@57bananaman]

My favourite quirk of Stratford Station is the fact that the doors on the westbound Central Line trains open on both sides!! This means that people getting off the Elizabeth Line trains coming in from Shenfield who want to exit the station or transfer to the Woolwich-bound DLR can find it easier and quicker to wait for a Central Line train to arrive and walk straight through it rather than negotiate the recommended route down the stairs. I've done this on many an occasion, though I don't think it would work too well in the rush hour.

[@phaasch]

A similar set up used to exist at Lewes, where passengers from stations east of Brighton could change for a train to Haywards Heath via Keymer junction, by walking through any train off the Uckfield line, in the double sided platform. Then they went and spoiled the fun by closing the Uckfield line, and filling in the platform road. Which means that you can still do the same thing, but don't have the fun of being able to use a train as a bridge!

[@vincemerrell3993]

Plenty of people don't wait for the train and attempt to leap the gap across the single line between the platforms. This is a form of Darwinian selection that I care not to watch either in person or on KZbin.

[@highpath4776]

@@vincemerrell3993 Spolier for the next Jago April 1st vid

[@MarkHalberstram]

The first time I went to Canary Wharf I did the same, breezed straight through a DLR carriage. It’s a slightly surreal experience.

[@faizul_thetrainspotter125]

I believe Barking's Eastbound District line platform has a similar concept of opening doors on both sides.

[@PimH]

I'd love a more detailed look at the station layout. Why is the platform numbering so illogical? Why are the terminating Jubilee line trains to the north(-west?) of the through-running DLR trains to Stratford International, therefore requiring people to take the stairs up and then back down to get to the Jubilee line? Why are the passenger tunnels so narrow? Why is it nearly impossible to know which tunnel you'll end up in when you take the stairs down from the platforms? And last but not least, why haven't they enabled direct trains to Stansted Airport yet? :) It's an incredibly well-connected station, but it could use a London Bridge-level renovation!

[@andrewwebb3431]

If they wanted to re-design the platform layouts they had the perfect opportunity to do so when they effectively flattened and re-built the station when the Jubilee line arrived in the 90s and then again for the 2012 Olympics. But all they did was (mainly) improve the building and facilities, leaving the tracks as they were. Presumably it would have been prohibitively expensive and a logistical nightmare to re-route all the trains whilst they realigned tracks and re-built the platforms in a more logical way, which is I guess why they left the basic layout alone.

[@PeterGaunt]

Every time I have to change trains at Stratford I feel like I need a brain transplant. None of it makes any sense until you understand how it has evolved. No one ever designed it to be that way. It just IS, rather like that nerve in the giraffe's neck which starts off in its face, heads all the way down to loop around the aorta and then heads all the way back up again to end up a short distance from where it started. The reason it is like that is because fish have no neck.

[@hublanderuk]

Do you remember the foot tunnel that connected the Stratford Shopping Hall to the bus and train station. It use to go under the road out of the shopping hall where people cross today. Then get to a T junction left took you to the bus station and right took you to the train station. As a child under 10 at the time it always seemed a long walk for a train.

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

When the platforms used by North London line trains were relocated they did consider renumbering the platforms to be more logical but it would have meant changing signalling information systems and would have been expensive, and as there were no safety reasons for doing this so the platform numbers were not changed.

[@iankemp1131]

It's certainly an incredibly complicated station and I struggle a bit to navigate my way round it. If Jago can get a map of the station it would be useful! A frustration for me was that the Lea Valley platforms are geographically quite close to Stratford International but there seemed to be no direct way through, necessitating a 10 minute walk (or 5 min + DLR).

[@michaelcampin1464]

My Grandfather was a shunter in Stratford Goods Yard during WWII but was killed in the blitz when his engine was hit by a German bomb. Luckily i met his fireman at my mothers funeral nearly 13 years ago.

[@englishciderlover7347]

I can remember standing in the backyard of my grandparents' home in Leyton in the 1970s, and hearing the engines being shunted in the distance.

[@zharahussain8004]

@@englishciderlover7347 that's incredible, you guys should also come together a compile more memoirs as it's an important part of history. Glad you lived through that time

[@Zveebo]

“Unlike a puppy or a kitten you can’t just flush a railway down the toilet and forget about it…” JAGO 😂

[@johncassels3475]

I fear Jago may be in trouble for that one! I certainly would be if it came out of my mouth ... 🐕

[@anthonylloyd-rees]

Note to self; Put the teacup down before watching Jago's new videos.

[@tomzitiger]

I was looking for this comment

[@NCR5309]

Unless you’re TPE

[@heli-crewhgs5285]

It’s a disgusting comment, that should not be applauded. Jago needs to think before writing such wicked stupidity.

[@jimmeade2976]

When DLR opened in 1987, Stratford was a unique station in that it only had a single track (all other DLR stations were double-track), that single track between Bow Church and Stratford, with a passing loop at Pudding Mill Lane. As a member of the group that built the original DLR, operating that single-track to/from Stratford was an operational challenge, having to schedule trains so that they could meet at Pudding Mill Lane, and adjusting train movements to deal with reality so that the meet still took place as trains didn't quite perform as scheduled.

[@highpath4776]

Always reminded me of the Seaton Tramway at that part of the Line

[@zharahussain8004]

Wow Jim, that is monumental you must be proud to have played such a part. Stratford is becoming so much more well known now.

[@ocelotsly5521]

I would certainly enjoy a more detailed look at Stratford Station itself. Five years ago I was a tourist visiting friends in Hackney Wick. I stayed in Stratford and used the station daily. Its layout and (steam engine outside excepted) history-free atmosphere flummoxed me. Oh, and my nation was the birthplace of Westfield, so... sorry about that.

[@lordgemini2376]

And the potential rebuilding if Stratford station into something like the new Reading Station

[@highpath4776]

Plenty of History if you knew where to look. Mostly the Great Eastern Railway works and repair shops, but also buildings on the Canal mostly as the area moves to the Lea and Lea Navigation where chemical works and similar abounded. Much lost under the A102(M). But the people of the area will now make a new history.

[@hublanderuk]

You mentioned all the passenger service into Stratford and not mentioned anything about the biggest goods yard in this part of Europe. I remember when the sidings at Stratford stretched all the way to Leyton. This is why the central line goes underground between Stratford and Leyton stations so to go under the goods yard.

[@mbrady2329]

@@hublanderuk that yard now contains the Eurostar depot.

[@ocelotsly5521]

@@xr6lad They're just so convenient. So... monumentally convenient.

[@elzie9191]

I go through Stratford all the time on the central line. I want to know why Stratford to Mile End and Mile End to Bethnal Green is like a deafening roller coaster 😢. Nobody who rides on that stretch of the central line needs Thrope Park..

[@Clembo]

It's also a really long stretch. Convenient but horrifying.

[@sporkafife]

Why am I so heavily invested such in depth videos about the public transport in London, a city I've only actually been too once? It must be your charming personality Jago

[@Keithbarber]

Stratford was quite a simple station in my childhood, but they have added bits on here there and everywhere over the past 40 years or so

[@Security848]

It's not big enough either.

[@davidbull7210]

I first went there in 1989 and it was indeed much more simple and there was little development. It's unrecognisable from how it was

[@Keithbarber]

1985 saw Camden road - north woolwich and Richmond - broad street services begin as a through north Woolwich to Richmond service, 1987 saw docklands light railway services begin and since then its grown from there are

[@highpath4776]

@@Security848 Has it lost one of the Subways out of the platforms Or Am I confused with how Clapham Junction works ?

[@hublanderuk]

So the people on this comment will remember the Foot tunnel from the shopping hall to the Bus and Train station. Always seemed a long walk for the trains. 😄

[@Sasha-1313]

It’s morning where I am right now, but it’s definitely evening somewhere.

[@AverytheCubanAmerican]

"But long story short, it can be summed up thus" or it can be summed up in this way: Jago: Why are you complicated? Stratford: *Yes* And if that's not enough, there's the not so international Stratford International next door...

[@harbl99]

And above the gate of Stratford Station were inscribed the words: "Abandon sense all ye who enter here."

[@AndrewGruffudd]

It is said that Essex-based thespians love Stratford, not just because of its similarity in name to the Bard's birthplace, but also because they can look back in Ongar.

[@andrewgwilliam4831]

I'll get your coat.

[@AndrewGruffudd]

@@andrewgwilliam4831 I'm here all week.

[@mickeydodds1]

Jago, perhaps a word needs to be spoken about Temple Mills marshalling yard - a huge railway yard which formed much of the ground plan for the present Stratford/Westfield/Olympic stadium footprint. A sprawling yard which concentrated much of the goods traffic from the agricultural east of England and the North Sea ports into London. Was modernized at enormous expense as recently as the 1960s with state of the art computer controlled equipment, sadly to be abandoned as a dead loss ten years later.

[@hublanderuk]

Temple mills I remember and I guess this is one of the reasons the central line goes underground and appears at Stratford

[@bob_the_bomb4508]

Much of Stratford itself lies between the marshalling yard and the docks. As such it suffered a lot of bombing in WW2.

[@zetectic7968]

My eldest brother started his railway career at Stratford BR depot: cleaner then fireman. Not to forget that Temple Mills marshalling yards was next door and was once the largest such in Europe.. As an aside nearby Dagenham, the Ford plant, shipped a lot of vehicles out by rail & no doubt before "just in time" brought supplies in that way as well.

[@rosmeartoo]

Ford had dedicated car flats/container wagons to move vehicles and components between Cologne, Ghent & Dagenham.

[@hublanderuk]

This Goods yard at Stratford was the reason my Grandad use to say come home first Saturday of the War no roof on the house in Rosher Road. Now remember first Saturday of war was 7th September 1940 and the Germans were going for the railway sidings at Stratford. Rosher Road is no longer there but it was between Carpenters road and Stratford Station on the South side of the main line.

[@sams3015]

Good Afternoon. I was staying near Stratford a few weeks ago and I never realised what a busy station it was. Also I learned that it’s not the same thing as Stratford International

[@jeremypreece870]

I was laughing out loud when you described "stupid people who buy pets because they think they are cool" but that was topped when you said that railways unlike cats and dogs can't be flushed down the toilet. A couple of moment later I started to feel guilty for laughing at that one!

[@bertspeggly4428]

Good thing my wife didn't hear Jago's comment about puppies and kittens down the toilet. If she had he wouldn't be doing videos, or anything else for that matter.......😁😁😁😁

[@fumthings]

and so you should be. NO ONE should flush a railway down the toilet... shakes fist and mutters "beeching"

[@liampowell8678]

It was the dead-pan delivery that made it... This chap just keeps getting better!

[@jamesparson]

As you should. OK, it make me laugh too.

[@rjjcms1]

I would happily administer a swift right hook to any adult male who flushed a living creature like that down the toilet,and my animal-loving gf would happily do the same to any adult woman committing such a deed.

[@andrewfrancis3591]

Stratford was my first depot. It was on 7 levels originally. There were stables, foundries, storage. all underground. There were tunnels to get from the signal box, platform offices and the low level. I only got to see a small part because a lot of it was flooded out.

[@timsully8958]

The sad thing about the engine is that not only has it been allowed to rust and rot, but the PR team didn’t think to check that the engine was actually made by the works to which it was supposed to be a symbolic nod. Petty? Perhaps. But come on. It’d be like them buying a Bristol Lodekker bus as a tribute to the factory that made RT and RM buses🙄 With regards to the station being so busy, something also worthy of mention is that of course it also has to cope with huge amounts of freight that go through Stratford and via Temple Mills and the North London Line to the rest of the country from the ports at Tilbury, Thames Haven, Felixstowe and Harwich, as well as via the Channel Tunnel exchange sidings at Renwick Road/Ripple Lane. 😜 It is hard to believe it is the same place, let alone station, when I look back to just 25 years or so ago. The shopping centre was an utterly desperate den of cut price shops and dodgy characters, the “Bus Station” was just a bit grim and smelt of old tramps trousers (or at least how I imagine they smell 🙄) and the station looked like it had been half thought about and then someone changed their mind half way through building it and just threw a few things together to finish it off 🤷🏻‍♂️ Plus of course, there was brown-fill as far as the eye could strain from the now largely disused carriage sidings and various buildings on different stages of dilapidation, disrepair and demolition. The station itself was ramshackle, with one part serving trains out towards north Essex far from the other platforms as existed them (ie just the two main line platforms and the adjacent Central Line platforms) and then you could take some stairs (tramps trousers again) to the almost half-arsed station that took services to North Woolwich, around which were a few small structures that had been repurposed more times that a corner kebab shop and a few ubiquitous portacabins which were probably a temporary measure left over from the 1960s! 🤣😂😅 The DLR was just a wee bay with services to Canary Wharf (now abandoned) and of course there was no Jube Tube and no DLR towards Canning Town, nor any HS1 link to Kent. A right hole really 🤔 Amazing what an unexpectedly successful Olympic bid can do to suddenly make people take interest in what previously looked like a run down almost apocalyptic post industrial wasteland. Even the putrid shopping centre got a huge facelift (you can actually get fresh seafood, cappuccinos and Brick Lane bagels where once you could only get Poundshop fishfingers, a knockoff brand of Mellow Birds and a loaf of white bread for 23p. And the tramps trousers have been spruced up and become retro garments in an overpriced boutique. Progress eh? 😜 Blimey, I’ve typed loads! I need a lie down. And a bagel. L'Chayim! 🥯 👍🍀🍻

[@aprilsmith1166]

@Tim Sully Lovely recollections, thank you. Some things I knew, most not. But I know I shall never look at tramp's trousers in quite the same way again. Not that I make a habit of looking at tramp's trousers, but you know what I mean...

[@Nosregni]

With inflation what it is, I wish you could still get a loaf of bread for 23p!

[@Ozymandias1]

It's also a shame to see that old station boarded up. Someone could turn it into a hotel or restaurant.

[@timsully8958]

@@Ozymandias1: possibly, but in truth North Woolwich is not exactly in the catchment area for luxury dining and I suspect any such conversion, what with the grade listing restrictions, would be seen as fairly preventative. It was a museum once upon a time while the trains still ran into the single platform and passengers used the adjacent 1960s prefab structure station building, but once the railway went, alas so did the museum in 2008. As yet, there have been no further plans for the site and all valuable objects have been removed and either returned to whence they were originally lent or to other benefactors to ensure safe keeping for the objects the museum actually owned.

[@sianwarwick633]

@@Ozymandias1 I'm with you. It'll happen when it costs enough

[@andrewgwilliam4831]

There used to be a massive railway depot at Stratford, which I got to visit as a kid when they had an open day in (I guess) the early 1980s.

[@MeFreeBee]

I spent many hours waiting on Platform 8 as a young boy in the mid 60s and early 70s. We lived in Goodmayes and our normal route for outings into London was to change between the mainline and Central Line at Stratford, and the wait for the "all stations to Gidea Park" service always seemed so long in those days. I can still hear the announcements in my imagination, her voice so clear and measured I don't think it humanly possible not to understand every word. If I could once again hear "The next train calls at Ilford, Romford, and all stations to Southend" I might just be overcome with nostalgia. I dare not go back for a listen as I fear she has been long since replaced and I couldn't cope with the disappointment.

[@robtyman4281]

My father was born in Goodmayes - Eastwood Road.

[@davidjoyce1021]

Remember going through Stratford as a train mad boy 30 years ago, stepping off the DLR seeing the depot, then going downstairs onto the derelict North London line platforms, all this was much like Clapham Junction to me, and with the mix of slam door units, loco hauled intercities and freight, elderly tube stock on the tube lines, the DLR and a few of the sliding door stock it was a good mix all round, and that Stratford had somehow a charm about it. Roll on 20 years, the shiny glossy Olympic Park, the DLR was now on the old North London Line and somehow I found it had all lost its charm.. So I concur with this video a lot.

[@1258-Eckhart]

I'd just like to point out to your readers that I began my professional life thirtysix years ago by commuting daily between Homerton and Ilford, changing at your "derelict" North London line station. It had a functional heater bar in the waiting room, atmospheric lighting and progress along the platform was not hindered by uncleared broken glass.

[@highpath4776]

@@1258-Eckhart The timeline roughtly fits when the NLL section south of Stratford was closed for the coming of the DLR ? Lost a Useful direct link from Canning Town to Highbury and Islington.

[@steveparadine1970]

Yes to an in depth show of Stratford!

[@gregkiteos1936]

One of my favourite stations. I prefer to go there when travelling in from the West Anglian main line to avoid paying the Zone 1 fare for going into Liverpool Street, which is considerably more. In recent years this station has proudly claimed the title of _Busiest London Station Outside Zone 1._ The reason it is *the* busiest London station is because of the pandemic. Another anomaly about the station is its numbering. Platform 7 is disused, but there is a platform 10 and a platform 10a, which are completely separate from each other and trains very rarely stop at 10a.

[@peterhampshire4338]

Platform 4 is also actually two platforms, 4a and 4b, being the two now being used for the branch via Bow Church to Poplar

[@PlanetoftheDeaf]

Stratford "benefited" from its proximity to the redeveloped Docklands, so as well as being an interchange for the Central Line into the City and West End, it also is an interchange for people going to Canary Wharf and the rest of Docklands. Then it also had the Olympic Park and Westfield built next to it, adding yet more traffic, and the HS1 station Stratford International requiring yet another bit of DLR!

[@GNTel313]

You mentioned Hudson as a railway engineer and con man...... I was holding my breath, just waiting for that "Yerkes" moment.... but it never materialised 🤔 I'm sure he must have had some input at Stratford somehow as his name nearly always crops up 😀😀😀

[@ianpegge9967]

Yerkes died before any tube lines came to Stratford

[@webchimp]

Yerkes was mentioned in an RM Transit video yesterday, Jago got a name drop too.

[@johnm2012]

That's entrepreneur or promoter, not engineer!

[@highpath4776]

@@johnm2012 Hudson was an engineer too.

[@johnm2012]

@@highpath4776 Was he really? I knew he was apprenticed to a firm of drapers and married the daughter of one of the partners, taking over when his father in law died. He was Lord Mayor of York for a while and then Tory MP for Sunderland - a kind of northern Boris Johnson! There were a lot of dodgy dealings. I read about him when I lived in York for three years in the 1980s. It's a long time ago so I don't recall his engineering prowess. Perhaps Hudson was to engineering as Thatcher was to chemistry?

[@FannyLerouxTime]

Omg, that kitten and puppy joke did make me laugh, I wasn't expecting it!

[@PtolemyJones]

Not because of Shakespeare? LOL. Damn, almost snorted a mouthful of water thru my nose with that 'flushing' joke.

[@RadioJonophone]

I laughed out loud when you suggested flushing Fluffikins down the toilet. I had to stop and rewind, so mirthful was the quip.

[@GreenJimll]

Sitting up here in Stratford-upon-Avon (which itself has two national rail stations and an interesting history of previous lines and stations now sadly gone) I do wonder how many people pop out of a train at the Stratford station that Jago has been talking about and ask where the Royal Shakespeare theatre is? I know a few made it up here to the heart of England in 2012 whilst trying to get to the Olympics in London...

[@highpath4776]

The Theatre Royal , Stratford, puts on some interesting shows , went to a couple one for a performance for schools , one because it looked interesting but cannot recall what it was called or entirely what it was about.

[@PO139DD]

I've lived here 25 years. The BEST thing about the Olympics was that I could finally stop explaining (even to other Londoners) where Stratford was. Now what seems to be an issue is that there is a DLR station (not far from Stratford) called Abbey Road. No idea how big a problem it is, but there are signs all over the station basically saying "No, not THAT Abbey Road" and giving directions on how to get to St.Johns Wood (where Abbey Road Studios is). LOL

[@mbrady2329]

They'd probably end up at Stratford East theatre!

[@Clivestravelandtrains]

I remember the tale of the Japanese tourists discovered on a Euston-Liverpool service who thought they were on a boat train to Harwich, which they had read left from "London's Liverpool Station". They hadn't been challenged at the ticket barrier because they were using Interrail go-anywhere tickets.

[@nzd3742]

Any such person could go and have a look at the statue of Will outside the UEL on Water Lane. I do wonder if whoever commissioned that way back when was being ironic or confused as to where they were.

[@christinebeynon9967]

My Grandfather was a yard inspector at Stratford depot my dad, cousin, uncle also worked there, my brother at Temple Mills till it's closer. As near as got was spotting on platform 10 in the 50s. Wasn't the Royal Train shedded there when it was hauled by steam in the 50s to Sandringham..

[@Steven_Rowe]

A great video Jago, I think this place has huge potential for some more extensive videos. When I look back at London's railways both those still in existence and those abandoned I'm simply amazed at the possibilities to get from a to b.. Even the old line from Broad Street to Dalston has been partially reused for the ELR. When I look back at lines that were closed in the 60s it's a shame that the rail corridor was sold off and not just abandoned, I think so many lines would have reopened or morphed into other lines.

[@DadgeCity]

Just look at the 1985 tube map. Stratford is just a station on the Central line with a connection to BR services (on neighbouring platforms). Planners and politicians made a conscious decision to transform it into a transport hub.

[@helloiamrob]

This was great - and another request here for a video about the station itself. Namely the absolutely-all-over-the-place platform numbering system. (I’d also love to learn what the complexities are that presumably stop whoever’s responsible from just renumbering them all to make sense?)

[@highpath4776]

Signalling basically.

[@faizul_thetrainspotter125]

I'm not sure if you take requests, but if you do consider doing so, I would love it if you could talk about Mile End on future uploads, as not only is it one of East London's busiests interchanges, but is also the only direct cross-over interchange between the sub-surface (District and H&C) and the Central line on the London Underground. Also, it's my personal favourite tube station, to be frank. The architecture looks quite awesome, more noticable on the pillars of the station! And just watching the 1992 Stock vs S Stock racing each other just never gets old, to be fair! ;)

[@haltendehand1]

Good Sunday afternoon to you too

[@frankupton5821]

Then there are Stratford-upon-Avon and Stratford-upon-Avon Parkway, which for some reason were built 130 miles away, along with the long-departed Stratford-upon-Avon (Old Town).

[@GreenJimll]

Not forgetting Stratford Racecourse on the GWR, and the original Stratford-upon-Avon station where the shopping centres are now.

[@AudioTones67]

Stratford is so complicated it needs a Jago/Geoff Marshall collab video.

[@robbojax2025]

A friend of mine nicknamed Mr Negative thought that the Olympics would be a disaster. He kept asking me how I was going to cope with the travel to work through Stratford. I kept explaining all of the train lines plus the buses and I never once had a problem travelling through that period. A great station for conections across London.

[@Rog5446]

I once paid a visit to the large loco shed at Stratford in steam days and was amazed then at the spaghetti system of tracks around the place.

[@thefareplayer2254]

Jago coming in hot with the JOKES! By golly haha

[@highpath4776]

Flushed with success

[@johnledingham852]

Another intriguing video Jago. What really grabbed my attention was the still of the Eastern Counties Railway carriage. So this carriage (as opposed to American railroad cars) was being hauled around in the 1840's, a hundred years before I was born. I think it's extremely charming. I can picture in my mind's eye London ladies in flowing dresses, and men in suits with top hats, rushing to climb on board. It's obviously in a railway museum somewhere. I'd like to see it displayed with another identical carriage, spruced up to look like new. There is a beauty in ageing, but one renewed beside it would show that what is old was once brand new. I love displays of what once was. We must never let go of ours of yesterday.

[@philclennell]

It always intrigues me to ponder on the sheer number of connections between the various lines which have now been abandoned. They would surely have proved incredibly useful had they been kept open.

[@mikehebdentrains]

Someone else may already have mentioned this .. I have a recollection that, in the 70's, the names Stratford High Level and Stratford Low Level were in use on maps? There was also Stratford L.I.F.T. which was London International Freight Terminal, not a way of changing platform levels. That's an almost forgotten freight yard, handling wagons from all over, including from boat trains in Harwich and Dover. (In the 60's, Stratford Johns was in 'Z Cars', just for international clarification).

[@Tevildo]

"Stratford (Low Level)" and "Stratford (High Level)" (no brackets, no points) were officially different stations until the DLR took over the NLL platforms in 2008, although this was not reflected in the station singnage.

[@highpath4776]

Stratford JOhns also in the Follow Up Softly Softly, he lived in Merton Park and wrote at least one book

[@mikehebdentrains]

@@highpath4776 That's right - and in the 70's he and Frank Windsor did a mini series examining the Jack the Ripper case.

[@rogink]

I remember visiting Stratford back in the early 80s. I was a somewhat fairweather trainspotter, more interested in the civil engineering side of the complex train depot than the trains themselves. Jago gave us a nice potted history of the station over its long lifetime, but I'd appreciate something more about the previous 2-3 decades leading up to the eventual transformation of the industrial area into the Olympic Park.

[@johnchurch4705]

I used to work at Stratford Depot, I regret not seeing it before it got flattened. The platforms with the Central line were used for communicating towards Southend or Colchester. Faster stuff used the center tracks, the old platforms opposite were never used unless there was an issue on the commuter platforms.

[@ValueNetwork]

It’s probably not the evening yet, but Jago I take your word for literally everything in your videos and I’m not stopping now

[@scottc1589]

No kitten around, yet I won't dog you about it, but I think the time is flush for an even deeper dive into the history of Stratford!

[@roystudds1944]

Amazing complexity of Stratford station. Thanks Jago. Roy.

[@SupremeLeaderKimJong-un]

On our metro, we only have two lines on the network with a single interchange station. So simple compared to this mess. History is complicated, but explaining how complicated it is keep historians busy which is a good thing

[@sidewalk__]

Why do you need so many lines? Pyongyang is an example of how a capital city can thrive without the need for such a massive transport network! The tube is such a waste of money, if it weren't built then the money saved could be put to more important matters, like defense.

[@yorkshireball_animations]

@@sidewalk__ the tube is great for us enthusiasts though.

[@sidewalk__]

@@yorkshireball_animations _sighs_ it's North Korea they don't care about enthusiasts

[@UltimateAzumanger]

Kimmy, unite with your South Korean brothers! Make things better for Korea!

[@rolandayers6726]

Historians have a tendency to simplify history in the service of a desirable narrative, especially in your part of the world. We are starting to follow your lead though, with any complication failing to comply with The Narrative being denounced as 'misinformation' or 'conspiracy theory'.

[@davidfalconer8913]

In the days of Anglia trains " Crosslink " ( around 2002 ) , Stratford station used to be super stainless shiny at the front , but a walk to the far side ( platform 17 ? ) was a total brick dereliction ( complete with Buddleia sprouting out of every gap ! ) with the occasional freight train rumbling through ( at 10 MPH ! ) .... the Olympics changed all that , of course ......

[@qaphqa]

Thanks for the captions! ♡

[@MrDavil43]

My only visit to Stratford was to the loco works in 1958 where I saw the last GER E4 2-4-0 loco prior to it's cosmetic refurbishment. It now resides at the National Railway Museum in York. I see from your video that there have been a couple of changes to the area since then. In my mind I like to think that steam loco repairs are still happening there, and that N7 and L1 tanks, those beautiful Sandringhams and other Eastern Region engines are still being fettled in those huge and grubby buildings....no, don't tell me the reality, just let me wallow in my own version of the world.

[@OllieTastersall]

Strangely, I think Stratford shaped my interest in trains and transport. I remember as a young lad, living in Woodford in the 1980s, travelling to Stratford on the Central line. Coming out of the tunnels at Stratford I was confronted with this hive of activity, from the myriad of locomotives to the huge depot of Temple Mills, north of the station and even the bus garage to the south of the station. Completely nostalgic, but I feel like the station lost a bit of its magic when they knocked down the old station buildings (the original and primary entrance buildings) around platforms 10 and 12, and ripped up a lot of the goods yard to make way for the Westfield development.

[@w00df0rd]

Still in Woodford?

[@peabody1976]

I love how Stratford and Stratified both start with the same letters and currently mean very similar things. :) Great video on a bustling eastern hub of London, Jago. Cheers!

[@telhudson7885]

Posted at 2am to brighten up a rainy Monday morning. Greetings from NZ.

[@changwanyu4231]

Ooh I lived in Stratford. This is one interesting and intriguing video. Thanks Jago!

[@rickkearn7100]

Well done! Excellent post, as they are always. I've recently subscribed with notifications. Cheers.

[@capabilityred3606]

Nice one Jago. You are the glowing light at the end of my tunnel of confusion.

[@CheshireTomcat68]

Yep, all I did was flush an Ichthyosaur down the toilet and a Loch owner in Scotland was very unhappy until the tourists started turning up.

[@adrianrutterford762]

Thanks for yet another wonderful video.

[@isashax]

Thanks! I have asked myself this question every time I had to use it!

[@stevepashley795]

Really enjoyed that, thank you from Australia

[@peterb514]

Brilliant as always Jago, that was a “long story long”. 🤣

[@willhovell9019]

Excellent Jago. So many lines at West Hampstead and 3 stations. Thameslink stop with East Midlands trains thundering through. West Hampstead Overground , to Richmond & Clapham Junction and back to Stratford (you guessed it) . The first two stations have lifts to the platforms. West Hampstead Jubilee line has no lift, inspite of a simple a single island platform. Met trains and Chiltern trains thundering through. The pedestrian crossings are pathetic , with preference given to traffic at the junction of Iverson Rd and West End Lane , one pelican crossing opposite West Hampstead Overground , and a very dangerous crossing at the top of Broadhurst Gardens , where traffic jumps the lights , stops across the pedestrian crossing , and gets sandwiched between the two sets of red lights. With another new passenger line planned across West London, through the freight line in Gladstone Park ( Midland & LNW joint) to terminate at West Hampstead , the whole mess may warrant your attention. And help put pressure on Thameslink , London Overground , TfL and Camden to do something about it. The only that does work are the bus stops northbound at West Hampstead TL , and Southbound at West Hampstead Thameslink for the C11, 139 and 328 buses. It works so well that TFL are bound to tinker with it . With hundreds of new flats between WH Overground and WH Jubilee, , and literally thousands of flats planned and currently going up to the east of the stations, it's not designed for pedestrians and rail travellers to move easily and safely , between the stations . Your attention would be greatly welcomed. Keep up the excellent vids

[@LeeSmith-cf1vo]

On a similar note - what's up with the absolute rats nest in the stewarts lane / Clapham Junction area? There is even a rack that leaves the chatham main line, descends, goes under the Chatham main line, twice, and then rejoins... the chatham mainline... on the same side it started!

[@neilmossey]

Thanks - I had always wondered about Stratford - and wonderful shot at 5:25 I'm sure you might already know this, or don't need to know this but you can search for comments in your KZbin Studio dashboard If you click on the comments tab on the left hand bar, it's not very clear but the gap at the top of the latest comments where it says "I havent responded" - is actually a search bar If you click on that space it brings up some useful options and the first one is "search" You can also filter the comments to only show questions, if that's an easier way to sift through what I imagine is thousands of comments! Thanks again

[@harrybond9282]

Thanks for sharing this wonderful video. In 1980;s I have seen and travel also North woolwich line and old line towards Gospel Oak, and up to clapham via Mulberry near Euston. Also Travel fro Broadstrerrt overground staion next to Liverppol Station to Stonbridge Park near wembley. Also traveled Black Hall station of Central line. Many stations are closed.

[@sianwarwick633]

Well, you know. This does explain what several people were trying to tell me about Statford station and Poplar station when I worked at Canary Wharf. That there was this sort of gigantic network of trains emanating from Stratford, going through Poplar etc, to the Wharf (as we called it) and from all the DLR stations like Beckton, to Poplar. What I mean is, there was this historically important train network of the East End and Docks, which had its own importance.

[@sharynkhan1104]

The Elizabeth line has always been running from shenfield to Liverpool Street, maybe not known as the Elizabeth line but it has always been running unless of course I have been dreaming. Great video again Jago xx

[@mushy3424]

And the section to Liverpool Street will soon be underground and branch out Via Whitechapel.

[@celebalert5616]

I went to Stratford once to ask the same question. The station manager looked annoyed and said "uhhh it just is OK?". Someone else said there was "design factors" and looked really uncomfortable Then they took my oyster card and started scanning it a bunch saying "is this complicated? Huh?" and they made me pay a congestion charge to leave

[@john_something_or_other]

Did any of this happen?

[@celebalert5616]

@@john_something_or_other yes of course it happened

[@mushy3424]

A congestion charge?

[@celebalert5616]

@@mushy3424 because I was "congesting their mental processes".

[@josephturner4047]

I was a Driver at Reading. One day I got off my train at Oxford, relieved by the shed driver, and as I went to the mess I walked past a couple of women talking to the platform chap. Turns out, they wanted to go to Stratford. Not Stratford on Avon. They rode from Padd. 😂.

[@mushy3424]

Hope you enjoyed being 'relieved by the shed driver '. Different times I guess 🙂

[@teecefamilykent]

Brilliant video sir. Award yourself many, many, many points! Have you done a video on kings Cross York Road Station?

[@bryan3550]

Hey Jago, The best summation of incompetent contemporary pet ownership I've heard in years. Well done, Sir! The railway bits were interesting too...

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

Its a lovely station with 21 platforms numbered 1 - 17 plus three numbers with an A suffix (3a, 4a, 10a) and one with a B suffix (4b). I have zero problems finding my way about, even though part of it has changed very significantly since I first started passing through this station 50 ish years ago! About the only part that has remained the same is the placement of platforms 3 - 8. This is because of the location of the Central line tunnels. However platform 8 was widened at its eastern end and realigned when the through 'fast' tracks were reduced from four to three and platform 9 converted to an island (as 9 / 10) and platform 10 became 10a. When the platforms used by North London line trains (Nos 1 and 2) were relocated the various decision-makers did consider renumbering the platforms sequence to be more logical but it would have meant changing signalling information systems telling train drivers which platform they were going to call at - something that would have been expensive - so as there were no safety reasons for renumbering the platforms their numbers were retained unchanged. This is why what are now London Overground platforms 1 and 2 are so close to the little used platform 12. The old platforms 1 and 2 are now DLR platform numbers 16 and 17. Back in the day trains from platforms 1 and 2 went to Docklands as well as Lea Bridge and Palace Gates. Its such a shame that this service no longer exists - pre-war it was a busy service but it became run down during the war; had it survived to become part of the London Overground Network it would now have have been very busy - and the Piccadilly line in the Wood Green area would have been less overcrowded.. Westbound Central line platform 3a is 'new build' - these trains also call at platform 3. The DLR took over the never used platform 4* and when it was relocated to a twin island platform these were called 4a and 4b - but signage elsewhere in the station still quotes platform 4. The original platform 4 is now blocked by an elevated interchange passageway. *Platforms 4 and 7 were built for the service to Fenchurch Street after the route to Leyton east of Stratford station became part of the Central line. But wartime bombing so utterly destroyed the area to be served by these trains that the planned new electric train service was cancelled. What makes Stratford station exceptionally busy is the Westfield shopping centre. Its also the only reason why a few C2C trains come here. In the 1980s this station was much quieter, it did not open on Boxing Day and Central line trains ran through non-stop! Also, in those days the off-peak trains I used to catch from Ilford ran through without stopping, reaching Liverpool St in just a dozen minutes. Also of note, this is one of the four 'compass point' London suburban interchange stations (NE, NW, SE, SW - Stratford, Willesden Junction, Lewisham, Clapham Junction). This is another reason why a Bakerloo line extension to Lewisham is desired.

[@rosiefay7283]

4:26 That's interesting -- at some time when Blake Hall tube station still existed, the Fairloop wasn't a loop, but was broken at Hainault. So it was turned into a loop, and then broekn at Hainault again. 6:26 Can't we regard Crossrail as the name of the project and the Elizabeth Line as the name of the line? I don't see the need to say that "Elizabeth Line" is a rebranding.

[@hi-viz]

Until 1993 the Hainault-Woodford section was run as an independant shuttle (which has started again recently)

[@PimH]

As he mentions, the Shenfield Metro trains had been running as ' TfL Rail' for seven years, with signage and trains being marked as TfL Rail services. These trains are now running as Elizabeth Line, so I would indeed see this as a rebrand.

[@Tevildo]

Looking at old tube maps, the loop has been broken at Hainault rather than Fairlop ever since it became part of the Central Line in 1947. I don't know if the change happened at the same time, or earlier while the line was still part of the LNER.

[@andrewgwilliam4831]

@@PimH Quite so. In a moment of madness I actually bought one of the TfL Rail signs earlier this year, as a weird historical souvenir!

[@mittfh]

Or do a Geoff and call it CrossElizPurp 😉

[@MrSilenceSean]

It does have my favourite shortcut coming in on the elizabeth line from the east, which is get off, see the central line pull in across the platform, walk through the central line train and then go on to the jubilee

[@fpsmaverick_9335]

Don't forget the Greater Anglia line has essentially four different branches - the west anglia line up to Cambridge/Stansted Airport/Harlow, the Southend Line out to Southend, the Clacton line out to Clacton and Harwich etc, then the Colchester/ipswich lines...

[@roundron76]

When the DLR first went here it was in zone 3 and had a tunnel from the station that brought you out to the shopping centre. 😁

[@hypo382]

it's the afternoon mate

[@joshuahawkes7218]

3pm

[@stephenlee5929]

Daylight saving?

[@highpath4776]

We have always flushed Puppies and Kittens, when they get to the Northern Outfall Sewer at Abbey Mills they evaporate into the atmosphere and its where we get raining Cats and Dogs from.

[@elizabethspedding1975]

Great video as always.😄

[@bwaw1972]

I love your videos and I really like your humour.

[@DanEverest1343]

The Stratford mess of lines allows me to turn a unit by running it out of Ilford EMUD, round Channelsea Junction, High Meads Loop, up to Temple Mills Loop, reverse, back into Stratford via the Temple Mills up, reverse on the London side of Stratford and back into Ilford. Really handy!

[@arachwalker1]

The platform configurations make no sense. There's no platform 7 or 13 but there are platforms 10a and 3a which is really platform 3's other side as both sides of the Central line's westbound train doors open up. I really think they need to rationalise the platform numbers. Great video by the way. Keep up the good work. Thanks.

[@jonathanma2741]

I always found it quite funny that platform 1, 2 and 12 are physically linked on the surface, so that the "1 2" mosaic on the tunnel wall can be read as 1&2 or 12 and you can still get to your platform via that stair/lift

[@OllieTastersall]

Platform 10a used to be platform 10 and platform 10 used to be platform 9. That platform 9 once had buildings but these were knocked down to create the island platforms as they stand today; the numbers shifted so they still ran sequential through the station. Platform 7 was intended to be used as a bay terminus for shuttle services to Fenchurch Street, but this never materialised. The bay platform is still there at the western end of platform 8, although I think the DLR footbridge was built on some it... ...and with that, I'll get my anorak.

[@arachwalker1]

@@OllieTastersall The c2c runs the odd weekend service via Stratford can't recall whether it starts from Liverpool Street or Fenchurch Street. I've noticed tracks that break off between Forest Gate and Manor Park that heads towards Barking (I've used it!!!). Thank you both for your replies.

[@kevinfitzpatrick444]

I'd always thought a through service from the WCML to Stratford along the North London line would work, almost akin to the Southern service along the West London line (which honestly would be more than once per hour but never mind...) Also. No it's not evening when you published this. It's 3pm. Although I presume you did that to troll people.

[@rwm2986]

From May 2000 to September 2002, Anglia Railways ran a service from Norwich to Basingstoke using the North London Line called London Crosslink. Unfortunately, the North London Line, as it was then, caused the most problems. The complete story here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Crosslink

[@kevinfitzpatrick444]

@@rwm2986 yeah, aware of that one, but that ran like 5 times a day so was never really going to work. Don't know why I vaguely recall Jago mentioning it in a video at one point

[@billseymour-jones3224]

It's evening somewhere......

[@UltimateAzumanger]

@@billseymour-jones3224 Yeah. It's not the same time everywhere.

[@mbrady2329]

There was originally a plan to run through services via Camden Road as far as Queen's Park via a reopened Primrose Hill station, which would have involved restoring four track operation between Highbury & Islington and Camden Road, but it was abandoned as being too expensive.

[@vincemerrell3993]

Stratford (the station) is still an absolute mess. Despite lots of investment to make it better in the run to the Olympics in 2012, it remains a maze that needs passenger flow management in the peak hours. There are also significant oddities; no platform canopies on Platforms 9/10/10A where passengers are likely to have longer dwell times for the longer distance Anglia services, yet copious canopies for the Elizabeth/Central lines where passengers will likely wait 5 minutes as a maximum. There are also torturous interchanges between various platforms, especially if you need a lift and bizarrely complicated maps of the overall station layout which can only serve to confuse mostly anyone who uses the station for the first time. Oh, and, the anomaly which is Platform 10A. If you know, you know. I've used Stratford daily for over 20 years. In that time it has become somewhere which longer distance Anglia trains barely called at to somewhere every service calls at. In that time, patronage has expanded hugely due to general local development, the expansion of the docklands, Westfield Stratford and West Ham FC taking over the olympic stadium. If this is the best attempt at how the busiest station in the country operates then it is woefully inadequate.

[@bobstay1]

Couldn't agree more with all you've said....

[@highpath4776]

@@bobstay1 Yep, NR miscounted its actually only two passengers, totally confused trying to get in and out or change trains , and half the 2021 figures were left overs from 2020 who were also stuck

[@michaellennon873]

Interesting video. A future video could look at why there are so few underground lines and stations in South East London.

[@europeantechnic]

the north london line towards woolwich was partly taken over by the new dlr branch, but the southern half more recently taken by the liz line to abbey wood

[@jamesgulland]

Don’t forget that significant investment in the London Olympics 10 years ago meant investment in Stratford station and links in general

[@keith1222]

I often use this station and I have always asked myself the same question!

[@mokadir1]

I live there in Stratford from 1974 it was never busy like that before, it started after Olympic Games 🎉it became massive change

[@coppermaverick2588]

That thumbnail is beautifully horrific, I love it so much

[@markcooper6042]

I nearly choked on your pet flushing remark.

[@1258-Eckhart]

A major complication element I feel would be the proliferation of power supply systems. Whilst Clapham Junction is homogeneous SR third rail, Stratford has LU fourth rail, DLR third rail and standard NR OHLE.

[@highpath4776]

Wasnt the NLL third rail when it went south ?

[@1258-Eckhart]

@@highpath4776 Mais ça n'existe plus.

[@davidbull7210]

Remember, a puppy isn't just for flushing. You can use it as a toilet brush first.

[@CyclingSteve]

The magic of the Lea Valley!

[@TheEarlofK]

As someone who knows Stratford Station very well over many years, it is certainly an ergonomic mess, and even I have to double-check what platforms I want to use. I would say that it was relatively quiet up until the London Olympics happened (even with the DLR), nobody in their right mind would have chosen it as a place to live, but the investment that followed with housing and the Westfield Shopping Centre changed all that forever. I might add that there is also a lot of freight container traffic arriving at Stratford, as well; the only part that is deserted is the misnamed Stratford International section.

[@wintersbattleofbands1144]

"Unlike a puppy or a kitten, you can't just flush a railway down the toilet(!)" CLASSIC JAGO.

[@johnmurray8428]

Thank you for another great video. When we are in the UK my wife has nightmares about changing trains here. However, what impact does Wet Spam United have on passenger numbers? If they looked at the lower numbers getting off/on the tube from at Upton Park, then deleted those from today’s Stratford, would Stratford’s numbers then be under say Waterloo?

[@highpath4776]

probably null difference for pandemic year, but maybe for 2022.