James Gosling: Java, JVM, Emacs, and the Early Days of Computing | Lex Fridman Podcast

James Gosling is the founder and lead designer of the Java programming language. Please check out our sponsors to get a discount and to support this podcast:
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EPISODE LINKS:
James Twitter: / errcraft
James Wiki: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_G...
PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: lexfridman.com/podcast
Apple Podcasts: apple.co/2lwqZIr
Spotify: spoti.fi/2nEwCF8
RSS: lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/
Full episodes playlist: • Lex Fridman Podcast
Clips playlist: • Lex Fridman Podcast Clips
OUTLINE:
0:00 - Introduction
4:45 - Irrational numbers
8:04 - Math and programming
10:36 - Coding style
14:41 - First computer
23:54 - Lisp
27:22 - Write an Emacs implementation in C
35:15 - Early days of the Internet
45:57 - Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos
56:13 - Work hard and smart
58:48 - Open source
1:10:25 - Java
1:28:31 - Java virtual machine
1:44:05 - Android
1:47:04 - Advice
CONNECT:
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- Medium: / lexfridman
- Support on Patreon: / lexfridman

[@lexfridman]

I really enjoyed this conversation with James. Here's the outline: 0:00 - Introduction 4:45 - Irrational numbers 8:04 - Math and programming 10:36 - Coding style 14:41 - First computer 23:54 - Lisp 27:22 - Write an Emacs implementation in C 35:15 - Early days of the Internet 45:57 - Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos 56:13 - Work hard and smart 58:48 - Open source 1:10:25 - Java 1:28:31 - Java virtual machine 1:44:05 - Android 1:47:04 - Advice

[@Monotheist137]

I love u. I appreacite you exist.

[@gregaudette]

N..nmmmmmmmmmnnmmnnnmnnnnnnnnnmnnnmnnnnnnnnnnnmnnmnnnmnnnmnn.mnnn.mo O. Ooo O Oo O On O O .o Oo O Oo O Ooo Ol Oo O Oooo O O O O O O O O O O O O O O Oo O Oo O O Oo O O O 9 Llllllp

[@ayishamohammed3102]

wqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqhgggcqqawdwfwfgwqwqwqqqqqq

[@jenslotter2453]

Z

[@vytautaskleiza1448]

Great one as always! Would be amazing to see Jaron Lanier on the podcast in the future! Him as an interviewee on "Closer to Truth" was extremely stimulating.

[@temprd]

These language creators are arguably the cornerstones of our modern society, absolutely wonderful podcast.

[@DeadsunPrime]

The founding fathers of the internet.

[@Gglsucksbigballz]

I would have gone with OS developers. My friend at SCO is absurdly smart. Maybe your right though...

[@khronos142]

never thought about that before but it's very true that their ideas and decisions have affected so many lives and actions. fun to visualize all of that.

[@peppigue]

Exactly. That's why I'm exploring kernel coding and compiler design and stuff like that now. Want to contribute to society. Have no idea if I'm smart enough yet...

[@maxmad3667]

Well said bro.

[@nutsbutdum]

I like these Programming Language Creators series.

[@piyh3962]

We're living among the Einsteins and Newtons of computer science.

[@LeoBattlelionskillua]

same! love these!

[@0x44Monad]

Chuck Moore next - please! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forth_(programming_language)

[@eskii2]

Good idea. Simon Peyton Jones is an interesting dude.

[@webjockey007]

What a jem It’s interesting to note the trigger points that motivated his innovative ideas Again necessity is mother of innovation. I like many of his words from laziness to what do I get out of this

[@JOPOV]

Try to get Linus Torvalds on here!

[@linuxatheist5361]

Hell yeah!

That's my dream.

[@cascadengineering]

Second that.

[@user-pc4i8ege55]

I wonder what interesting topics do you expect him to be able to discuss?

[@JOPOV]

Dimitri Minaev Linux and life, or how Linux is life.

[@kardredren]

"It's OK to do stupid things once", great advice from a great man.

[@dimaxjr]

This man gave me a carrear as programmer. Thank you Mr. Gosling, you changed my life and the world.

[@lucianodsb]

Did he? By creating the language? You could start a carreer by programming in another language, what gave you a carreer was yourself. He gave you one of the tools you could use to start it.

[@ndotl]

Assembly --> C --> C++ --> Java --> Apex (Salesforce)

[@binxuwang4960]

I mean these interviews with the veterans from the early days of computer will become the oral history for programming for real . Good job!

[@TarlanT]

Gosling is one of the true Rock Stars of Computer Science, along with Knuth, Thompson, Ritchie and others.

[@ritzcrackerz7664]

PuneetamTwenty which knuth are you talking about? Donald Knuth?

[@PUNEETAM20]

@@ritzcrackerz7664 oh shit, wait, I confused Knuth and Conway. Conway passed away from Covid didn't he?

[@myxail0]

@@PUNEETAM20 yeah, so delete your comment on Knuth

[@TuxmanXP]

@@MMAoracle Linus Torvalds is a worthless dust speck when compare to actually creative people.

[@TuxmanXP]

@Johannes Terzis I accept your opinion.

[@InfiniteDesign91]

"While some folks took drugs to expand their minds, I took concurrent programming." - Lex Fridman, 2020

[@ShubhamSauravYT]

Lol When did he say this?

[@oualid9486]

@@ShubhamSauravYT the first two minutes of the video

[@lucasjames8281]

Why not both 🤷

[@davyroger3773]

@@lucasjames8281 microdosing -> code binge

[@glowiever]

it (concurrent programming) DOES change people though

[@tobylifers3390]

Mr Gossling's voice is so confident and calming. I could listen to it all day!

[@SankalpJain-vh8wn]

Lex is doing a pretty good job with these podcasts, some1 like myself in India has direct access to interesting and professional conversations between 2 proven intellectuals

[@MittyNuke1]

100% agree. I feel the same way, here in the US. It's amazing that just 50 years ago, you basically had to go to university to get access to this type of knowledge, and even then, what are the chances that you'd be taking a class taught by the creator of the programming language you're learning? Awesome stuff.

[@vforsh]

Finally someone who matches Lex’s energy

[@davenport8]

fuuuunnnnnyyyy

[@amauryrodriguez6033]

Hello Lex, what a privilege and joy it was to enjoy this interview with James Gosling. Amazing!!! Five stars for you. Thanks also for the interview with Brian Kernighan, brilliant too.

[@RiczWest]

What an ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT interview! Probably the best you've done and the best I've seen with Gosling - it's clear you guys clicked. Yes, please to parts 2, 3, ...

[@abhiroopsarkar855]

Just amazing! The lineup of guests you have consistently managed to bring here!

[@soyitiel]

18:00 that's actually what drove me to programming as a kid, I was amazed at how I could potentially build anything at the living room pc

[@makers_lab]

A legend. Had a copy of Gosling emacs at Uni in the 80's and still remember the joy of going through his famous terminal update code. Thanks Lex for this terrific interview.

[@MittyNuke1]

Lex, wow, what an incredible guest. You're really killing it with these podcasts. I love the JRE podcast like the rest of the planet but your technical background adds an element and brings in guests that people who love the sort of stuff like hearing from the founders of modern computing really enjoy. Can't wait to listen to Kernighan, Stroustrup, and some of the others next 👍

[@darkmatter5414]

Next guest: Linus Torvalds, pls.

[@jokerpb4778]

An hour ago I was searching for that episode and realized it never happened

[@HopDubstep]

Good one, grateful I get to listen to people like this in this format, possibly my favorite thing about the internet these days

[@sachinelearning]

Lex! This episode has given me so much happiness! Thank you!! keeping making these wonderful podcasts with these wise sages!!

[@NiloRiver]

My third time listening to this piece of pure inspiration. Thank you! High level conversation in every aspect.

[@jsprowse]

Lex, great conversation with a Canadian kid who done good in the big city. I taught Java in Calgary years ago and the students were always amazed and inspired that somebody from their hometown created the software underlying so many of the systems they used everyday. Thoroughly enjoyed the backstory and insights.

[@nailsonlandim]

Thanks for the podcast! I always find amazing listening to them because it would be a chance in lifetime to talk 5 minutes with him, but here I had almost 2 hours. amazing

[@ephi124]

Back in the days when I started learning Java, I had Mr. Gosling's photo as my Facebook profile pic for years. Never regretted it.

[@saideepakb]

Ryan Gosling?

[@ephi124]

@@saideepakb didn't ur daddy teach u to not put an actor who was once the sexiest man on earth as ur profile pic?

[@sparcx86channel42]

Interesting that I had a job for more than 15 years mostly based on this guy creation...

[@barryyoung]

That was a great interview !! Disclosure - I am an ex Sun Employee . So proud to be associated with a company that spawned so many visionaries that shaped the last 20 years.... James Gosling, Andy Bechtolsheim, Bill Joy, Eric Schmidt to name but a few

[@matsf8268]

Mee to, 10 years in total, RIP Sun Microsystems :)

[@mobbs8229]

Joshua Bloch* - inspired me to my core.

[@PabloEscobar-zd7re]

Lol no Joshua Bloch here

[@khronos142]

Thanks for showing the world how kind and patient people can be, Lex.

[@thanosbaba1]

Thankyou for pointing out dangling pointers in C and C++. Thanks for Java which made production level code easier...

[@mattgraves3709]

Epic conversations. For an intelligent and fresh perspective I look no further... and often find my heroes are right there across from you. Thank you man for asking great questions and for bringing the best minds together in one place.

[@antonb.2655]

Thank you. In general.

[@liftingisfun2350]

For all

[@ocallesp]

Very lovely to listen to James Gosling talking about engineering in software !!

[@r33s3spI3c3s]

really enjoyed this conversation, Lex. thank you and keep them coming!

[@DivijShrivastava]

One of the best podcasts. Best value adding thing on youtube.

[@nazgulizm]

Such an awesome guy to listen to. I hope he comes on for another interview session.

[@ChrisSeltzer]

James' description of transforming code into a picture of a machine resonates with me, that's exactly how I see code as well.

[@noahwhalen3398]

Fantastic interview! Lex I love the slow cadence & relaxed nature of your show.

[@Beelzebubba1983]

I love these podcasts, I’m sort of new to the idea but it amazes me how much we did just for fun, I think that’s what’s kind of missing from the new tech companies compared to 30 plus years ago. The thing for me was just having fun and learning all anew is so much fun too. Thank you both for your time and effort in educating and just having fun in an informative way!

[@WikiPeoples]

What a seriously cool interview. THANK YOU for doing this interview Lex.

[@SloppyPastrami]

Amazing podcast. Its so good to hear the stories of how the biggest things in tech came to be.

[@sourcecode6467]

I'm a programmer, I'd like to thank this man for all the migraines

[@mavhunter8753]

Lol

[@dcoelhog]

vor 4 Monaten Daniel Guimaraes As Gosling mentioned in the beginning of the podcast, he doesn’t care about the programming language syntax but rather what you can do with it; „let there be Java“, and there was Java (and from then on every class name were typed twice).

[@nikolacekic6317]

He took you from C to Java so arguably he reduced your migraines.

[@compartelo007]

I have a very low level of understanding of English, but thanks to the automatic translation I have been able to enjoy this wonderful interview with one of the people who created something as positive and spectacular as the JAVA programming language. Thank you for this very special piece of video and thank you to Mr. James Gosling for having those neurons that made it possible to give birth to this wonderful programming language.

[@WFiedler]

I really love this interview. So much I did not now or have forgotten already. I have installed my first Linux distro from a heap of floppy disks and have used Emacs for years myself. This interview also reminded me to start looking for a youtube playback speed addon/plugin/tool ;) Thanks Lex for your great interviews!

[@jontnoneya3404]

I SOO wish this was longer. Come on James, don't be afraid of the longer format.

[@eio4528]

This was a great interview. As a software engineer myself, it's great to hear an elders perspective and experience their knowledge.

[@thalathotitharunprabhakar3390]

Thank you Lex for posting this informative discussions with James.

[@mohamedfahmi8210]

Thank you lex for letting me know better the creator of the language i use in my day to day working life

[@satheesh1430]

I was waiting for this .. Thank you

[@theshermantanker7043]

This guy along with Bjarne quite literally paved the way for programming to blow up into what it is like today. Everyone may flock to fancy new languages like Python, but little do they know that without C and C++ Python wouldn't even exist, and without Java more than half the tools needed, like IDEs, wouldn't even be around today

[@mykola_rudenko]

Alex thank you for such a good work, I love your interview with all your guests! It’s give me a brighter perspective and help to evolve in some senses! Thanks 🙏

[@alfonsomoisesmayorgaespino4086]

Lex Fridman's voice always sounds like hes saying his last words

[@Joe-ud1de]

It seems like he is about to die and doesn't care about anything anymore, just die alone in peace. But his words tells otherwise, lol.

[@nathanielwoodbury2692]

Alfonso Moises Mayorga Espinoza lol right, dude thinks so much about his words

[@mavhunter8753]

Bruh, lol.

[@WiseCheese587]

lol

[@Schcarraffone]

just in my mind Ican try that: close my eyes and imagine that Jules of pulp fiction sits there instead and interviews Gosling...

[@ty_bergman15]

Thanks for everything Lex. Glad I found your podcast

[@_RMSG_]

I'm extremely thankful that modern C++ (and I guess modern languages on average) tackles so many bug-prone patterns, I don't have to feel like I'm always chasing pointers anymore

[@hadjdaoudmomo9534]

James Gosling!! wow, this man is a true inspiration. Thank you Lex

[@AmitChawhanamitc005]

Looking forward to watching 2nd interviewing with James.

[@pixelfox119]

Showed up in my recommendations.. Loved loved this. Watching this while developing a website in node.js.. Thank you for this and plz more content like this... Subscribed

[@belovedblackking7853]

I believe I am experiencing an existential shift ... I'm watching and enjoying Lex Fridman more than Joe Rogan.

[@robsonvonbrum1618]

Yep, me too. Lex focuses much more in the technical part rather than the human part.

[@peppigue]

Rogan isn't entirely dumb, but I can't imagine him writing a line of html

[@bernardcummings8786]

@@peppigue you don't have to minimize his intelligence in an attempt to highlight the quality lex's podcast.

[@mikimuzika]

have not listened to a single episode of Rogan since his move to Spotify.... it just feels weird.... and he needs to have less comedy and UFC talk.... its stupid

[@pasijutaulietuviuesas9174]

@@mikimuzika I have and I don't see any difference between them on Spotify and KZbin other than the fact that I can listen to JRE with my phone in the pocket and I don't get to see retarded comments which I always loved, so it's a trade-off, but nowhere near as massive as people make it out to be. I can still get to read and write retarded comments on the clips of JRE, though. I do notice a change in Rogan's style, however, but that's not due to Spotify, more just because of how large JRE became. Joe would normally let his guests expand freely as much as they wanted, even in highly technical fields of theoretical physics, even if the audience gets lost at that point, but now he's cutting his guests off, saying "the audience won't get any of that", forcing his guests to make it as simple and concise as they can, etc. That's when JRE got stale for me, but it wasn't an instant switch like the transition to Spotify, it was a gradual change.

[@darylldaviddagondon1091]

This man is very intelligent. possibly 2nd only to Bjarne in the world in C++ Programming Language mastery. Built a virtual machine for his professor to run programs. Built JVM in C++ thereby popularizing Architecture-Neutrality, programmed a robot sailing in the ocean. And now works for AWS. Incredible.

[@mvargasmoran]

Man Keep up the good work. Most don't work on these kind of topics, I really appreciate it.

[@1billyjcraw]

Lex, I know that you endlessly seek inspiration but I just hope that you know how inspirational you are yourself. Beyond talent, .....being real, authentic, generous, humble, and kind is a supremely powerful gift. That power will move heavens. 😉

[@dancinmad]

The most relaxing and interesting talk i have heard in some time

[@MoneybagsUkulele]

Taking notes was really getting in the way of my productivity so now I just memorize everything.

[@chrismackay9268]

Thanks for this conversation Lex, I am embarrassed to say as a Software Engineer I did not know who James Gosling is but this is extremely interesting to hear about these early days of computing. When are you interviewing Linus?

[@ferencszabo3504]

Lex keeping up the good work!just more and more living legends from the IT among the others! Can we add suggestions to that list ?

[@sachinelearning]

51:35 Lex's question to Mr. Gosling's statement is awesome! :D

[@kubsonfilla]

Awesome podcast. Lex Dziekuje za to ze jestes.

[@iacopocarlini]

I currently have food on my table and a roof above my head thanks to this man. Thanks from Italy

[@wiskasIO]

This is my favorite video yet, thanks Lex!

[@aqynbc]

So humble. Great podcast again.

[@Ben-vu1nb]

As a programmer I thank you for this video. Amazing!

[@jesperjohansson6959]

Those were a quick 2 hours. Hope to see Gosling again on the podcast!

[@NomadicBrian]

First languages for me in college were FORTRAN, ASSEMBLER then finally COBOL. Card punched code read through a card reader. My first work study job was a Computer Operator running the RJE station. Monitor, two printers and a card reader. The student monitors came in during my Junior year and what a difference it made.

[@thilakshanbaskaran3872]

Just discovered this channel. Great podcast.

[@PigDogBay]

It’s a pity Lex didn’t get James thoughts about oracles take over of Sun.

[@javier.alvarez764]

Eh, Oracle's a shit company no one likes them. I used to work there, everyone resign after a few months because of micromanagement, you don't even get an increased of salary even if you work there for 3 to 5 years. Serious developers who are also up to date to current technology would find their tech too old dated.

[@MittyNuke1]

James does make an off-handed comment about the crazy price of Oracle's support contracts somewhere in there, assume that gives an idea of his feelings.

[@chrismackay9268]

I work for a small software firm and was looking back through old code and I found that we have an old Solaris repo from back in the 90's, was quite interesting to read through some of that code.

[@PigDogBay]

@@MittyNuke1 Yeah I saw that, I wanted to see him rage about Oracle as I'm still bitter they took over Sun. It's a pity Google didn't acquire the complete rights to Java at the time.

[@lubricustheslippery5028]

Yea Oracles take over of Sun must be the worst event that happened computer world. Working with Java and MySQL would probably have done another choice today.

[@_adi_dev_]

18:00 i say this to no end, but programming for me is like woodwork, you see the fruits of your efforts immediately which is why its so satisfying

[@buildingphase9712]

Watch at 2x . . . and go through it in an hour, golden podcast

[@saaketh83]

Dont know if youre still reading these, but thank you Lex!! Thank you very much!!

[@saaketh83]

Also, dont be afraid to try psychedelics & concurrent programming... together!!!

[@rutayanx]

I was hoping to hear about liquid robotics! This podcast is great!

[@Gome.o]

This... has become my new backing track to fall asleep to.

[@justinjoseph5582]

Finally, Yes! been waiting for this...

[@haythamal-dokanji9547]

Lex, please host him again and spend more time asking him about engineering in general and more narrowly about Java design and principles.

[@benjaminsmith3151]

The best thing I like about Java is that it fills in all the holes left in operating systems, especially around graphics.

[@amrity]

Was a great interview. Thanks

[@cfraizer]

This podcast should totally be named "Yak with Lex".

[@informatik01]

Really interesting interview. Thank you.

[@trimbotee4653]

Another great interview!

[@Jarek.]

Super inspirational! I'm very proud that Mr. James Gosling was (for a short time) my work colleague 😌Means - we were working at the same Big Red O company... Both of us were victims of acquisitions 😂

[@rokker333]

Now I know why Java is slow 🤣 SCNR -- honestly, great interview again and highest respect for James Gosling of what he achieved and how humble he stayed. Even though I probably will never fall in love with Java in this life.

[@Sven_Dongle]

Java is only slow if you are crap for a programmer.

[@garrettdyess1110]

Just watched your latest with Joe Rogan where the conversation turned towards negative comments. I listen to your podcast almost daily at this point. It makes my days better, and it keeps me going in a positive direction. Thank you for what you do. You are doing a great job, and it is easy to tell that you are a good person doing this for good reasons. Thanks Lex.

[@briansandford3596]

Really fun! Thanks for this.

[@DavisTibbz]

Java was my first programming language. Thank you sir.

[@q8cornel]

lex you are insane. ur podcasts are super insightful especially when u get into the human aspects of ur guests....

[@codinginflow]

Is this the father of Ryan Gosling?

[@AwesomeDevNotes]

No, he is the father of Java

[@codinginflow]

@@AwesomeDevNotes So he's the grandfather of Kotlin?

[@igorfazlyev]

who the fuck is Ryan Gosling?

[@musictest9999]

no he's santa clause

[@headoverbars8750]

LOL! Florian:)

[@DavidFekke]

Lex, I loved the interview with James. If you interview him again, please ask him when he thinks we will see properties come to Java?

[@tomallton4249]

Thank you, James.

[@alexpadula7859]

That intro was heartfelt.

[@bbarre4601]

Java developer here. The vast majority of people will never know how the decisions and work of nerds like Gosling have impacted the world.

[@maureenparisi5808]

Rob made so many awesome tools ( faraday cage) excl. our days of the future were being realized. Thanks for the memories

[@nikolai1714]

Scary how smart the guys that created our modern society was/are.

[@timothystormann4901]

Great stuff Lex!

[@stephenpaek9175]

James Gosling is a true giant in computing