James White and the Crusades, The 5th Commandment, Boomers and Thunder Puppies

Pastors Tim Bushong and David Hewitt discuss the recent debates between James White and Joseph Spurgeon

[@davidhewitt4568]

Hey, y'all: if you are on here calling for the dismissal of James White over this (or anyone else in the discussion for that matter) you've missed the entire point of what Tim and I were talking about. Take a step back, take a deep breath, and find something about him and his ministry you can be thankful for. There's a lot.

[@MansterBear]

I get James’s point, the theology of the crusaders was Roman Catholic and incorrect. But I don’t see any of the “pro-crusade” saying we should adopt their theology. I just see a wish for dropping the effeminate attitude so many Christian’s seem to have adopted and actually be willing to fight back in response to things like Muslims marching thru the streets of England. I don’t really have a dog in this fight and was interested to learn what James said about the crusades, but I do think it’s an uncalled for jump to say the “pro crusade” type aren’t saved as if they’ve advocated for the false theology of the crusaders.

[@timbushong4387]

"“pro crusade” type aren’t saved" I must have missed that.

[@MansterBear]

@@timbushong4387 not sure if he said it in those terms. He’s 100% said they don’t know/understand the gospel. And one can’t be saved without understanding the gospel so whichever verbiage he used, the implication is they aren’t saved.

[@timbushong4387]

@@MansterBear - Does Rome have the gospel?

[@ChristisLord2023]

​@@MansterBearis "fighting back when someone marches through the street" your idea of fulfilling the great commission?

[@MansterBear]

@@timbushong4387 no

[@timbushong4387]

As long as people don't start saying that Sauron was just misunderstood.

[@jamesonsupan7865]

Stay tuned for Amazon Rings Of Power

[@timbushong4387]

@@jamesonsupan7865 - Haha - I know, right?

[@SK-mz4cq]

Great video and much needed.

[@brianmiller3287]

I must be missing something. I saw JW give his thoughts about the crusades, and admittedly have not seen or read whatever it was he was responding to. I'll look around for it, but JW's take on the crusades didn't seem unreasonable....

[@joeadrian2860]

You all probably listened to AD Roble's series on this by now. If you haven't listened in, I think he gives a sober, measured and very fair assessment of this and I have to agree with him after taking White's side initially. My reassessment would be best described by the passage in Proverbs 18:17: "The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him."

[@Poor-Wayfarer]

Please could someone tell me the singers of the song at the beginning. Or point me to a clip of it? I believe it is titled "I know my Redeemer lives". I like the sound of this version. Thanks in advance.

[@eschatology_matters]

It is! By Tim Bushong

[@Poor-Wayfarer]

@@eschatology_matters Oh thank you so much! I found him on Spotify. Battle Hymns for Weary Souls. Once again thanks and God Bless.

[@toolegittoquit_001]

These internecine squabbles are wholly unnecessary

[@RealJustinReed]

@@toolegittoquit_001 The fact that they are happening demonstrates that they are not. Someone is seriously wrong about something in a way that has severe implications.

[@CorlosMazda]

Nobody is starting with James White though. He's making comments and calling men who profess Christ out unprovoked with Baptist theology lessons. Fundamentally everyone agrees. The application they don't. James white doesn't seem teachable because he starts every show and or conversation with his resume which comes off as he's the sole authority on the matter. Are people memeing him, yes, but why wouldn't they, he entered the conversation and doesn't like how it's going so he blocked everyone and took his toys home.

[@darthkitty6883]

James White is well versed in church history, to try and educate him on this seems arrogant.

[@joeadrian2860]

@@darthkitty6883 Yes. This is a VERY good point and needed to be said.

[@mountainperry]

James White is extremely intelligent and well-educated on church history, but he’s also human and that’s not even his primary area of focus. As I understand it, he didn’t know about 1689 Federalism until a few years ago, and we all know he just came around to Postmillenialism recently. Acting like he doesn’t have areas of ignorance or misunderstanding within 2000 years worth of history isn’t honoring him, it’s putting him on a pedestal… not to mention obviously incorrect as demonstrated in my examples.

[@markschneider8103]

If faced with facts and evidence, learning something that he was previously unaware of. I have full confidence that Dr White would change his view on the crusades.

[@agfan6511]

Good on you for the shorter sermons! 55 minutes sermons are a display in inefficiency and much of the time arrogance.

[@davidhewitt4568]

I'd *like* to think I'm not being arrogant. Inefficient? Yes, that is surely a problem at times.

[@agfan6511]

@@davidhewitt4568 arrogant because the preacher may be saying that the things on his mind (or notes) are so absolutely critical to this sermon that they cannot be cut out.

[@davidhewitt4568]

@@agfan6511 how does one judge whether or not something should be left out, especially when it relates to the text at hand?

[@agfan6511]

@@davidhewitt4568 when your time is up :) Seriously though, isn’t that part of the skill of preaching? I assume my pastor isn’t unloading every single thing he knows about the passage he’s preaching.

[@toddstevens9667]

I’ve never seen this channel before. But I enjoyed the discussion. I think this idolizing of medieval Catholicism and the Crusades is just plain weird. It’s part of the whole CN, post-millennial movement tying politics and religion, and creating a “Christian” state. It’s bound to failure. Christianity is about evangelism and leading sinners to Jesus Christ, not the “Christianizing” of a state. But anyway, what I liked most about the video was the gentleman who goes out into the public and street preaches (or parking lot preaches 🤪). What a great example for the rest of us. Thank you.

[@Postmillhighlights]

What other institutions of men shouldn’t be Christianized? Or to use language that men have used throughout history, what institutions of men shouldn’t be under the feet of Christ and in submission to him?

[@toddstevens9667]

@@Postmillhighlights Spoken like the true Post-mill. Welcome. And that’s a loaded question. And as Jesus so often did, I will respond with a question in kind. As you read the NT, where does it talk about the church capturing the reins of political power and forcing a Christian moral ethic upon non-believers? That seems precisely the opposite of what the NT tells believers to do. But your question clarifies for me the difference between post-mill, CN theology and the theology of the NT.

[@Postmillhighlights]

@@toddstevens9667 should schools be Christianized? It’s easy to just wave your hand and not answer.

[@toddstevens9667]

@@PostmillhighlightsI’m not sure what the question means exactly. What would that entail? A JW or LDS teaching children their doctrine? Who decides which doctrines are taught? Which sect of Christianity will run these “Christianized” schools? The Southern Baptists? The United Methodists? Will they be baptizing children in these schools? So what exactly do you mean?

[@Postmillhighlights]

@@toddstevens9667 do Christian schools exist today?

[@Kylecombes4]

I feel like you're making a slight towards Joel Webbon 😅

[@RealJustinReed]

I take no pleasure in seeing men I've respected and learned from destroy their credibility and sink into irrelevance, and James White is doing just that.

[@toddstevens9667]

What makes you think that?

[@smhbbag1]

@@toddstevens9667 James used to read and respond to opponents accurately He's so triggered by CN that he tossed all that aside.

[@toddstevens9667]

@@smhbbag1 Maybe he’s not triggered. Maybe he just disagrees … vehemently. I know I do.

[@RealJustinReed]

@@toddstevens9667 The fact that he refuses to get the point or even be consistent on his own positions.

[@toddstevens9667]

@@RealJustinReed Yes, well he is definitely in love with hearing his own voice. No arguments there. And most of what he says is tangential at best to the argument he’s making.

[@ChristopherAlsruhe-si9ff]

James White, go home.

[@toddstevens9667]

What’s wrong with him?

[@timbushong4387]

Your response demonstrates why we did this video.

[@bobloblaw2958]

Without knowing you, I'm willing to bet he has done far more for the kingdom than you have. Perhaps you should "stay home".

[@smhbbag1]

@@bobloblaw2958 He has done far more for the kingdom than we have. And he is also Fruit-Loops on this topic.

[@smhbbag1]

Dr. White has thoroughly embarrassed himself on this issue, and is utterly incapable or unwilling to summarize his opposition accurately. He just needs to be ushered out.

[@timbushong4387]

Do you agree with David at 18:47?

[@smhbbag1]

​@@timbushong4387 Of course. Everyone on all sides of the conversation agrees with that.

[@timbushong4387]

@@smhbbag1 - Everyone?

[@smhbbag1]

@@timbushong4387 yes. Everyone involved with James agrees on that. AD, the Wolfes, etc. and the X anons, of which I am one.

[@smhbbag1]

@@timbushong4387 the position is that the invasion of Muslim lands by Christian Europe was justified on purely self-defense reasoning and just war theory. The false promises made by the Pope or the destruction of the gospel don't take away their right to continental self-defense. They'd been harassed and murdered on all sides by Mohammedan hordes for 300 years. It had to end.