the Book of Revelation: The Preterist View w/Jay Rogers

[@davidmiller9597]

Jay Rogers' book on Daniel was a paradigm shift in my life in the absolute best way. I cannot possibly promote "In the Days of These Kings" enough. A wonderful read and great for resource checking as well from time to time.

[@Deacondan240]

It is a good book.

[@stevezane68]

I totally agree. Best commentary on Daniel I’ve ever come across. Makes so much more sense. I was once dispensational.

[@donawyo]

I love it too.

[@micahlantz905]

Paradise Restored by David Chilton is fantastic!!!

[@jake13b]

Dr, Gentrys book The Divorce of Israel is a great resource as well

[@donawyo]

Hmmm, waiting and waiting and waiting for my order to come. 😢

[@too-girly]

This was very good!

[@darrelbolen5908]

Great to see Jay on here

[@kylewhitten3961]

30:21 - Chilton, “Days of Vengeance”. Free 8-part lecture covering that commentary on YT.

[@kylewhitten3961]

@@gustingdis - what distinguishes Chilton’s hermeneutical approach from John Owen? Doug Wilson? Gentry? Jim Jordan?

[@theres_noplacelike_home]

Interesting that Chilton became a full preterist.

[@kylewhitten3961]

@@theres_noplacelike_home - indeed!

[@claressa98]

Shade Stone is a phenomenal teacher of the preterist view. Very humble man with an eye opening message. Check him out.

[@DannyFesperman]

He is a heretic. He admits that he has never been saved.

[@johndekoyer7588]

​@@DannyFespermanThose are bold words when you don't know what's in a man's heart. Judge not lest you be judged. Jesus said Love. That's not love sir

[@DannyFesperman]

@@johndekoyer7588 Sinners go to hell. He has never been saved. Ask him yourself.

[@HBW87]

I’m a partial preterist but Paul does talk about a literal resurrected body so I’m assuming that means there will be a literal new heaven and new earth.

[@HBW87]

@@gustingdis What do you think?

[@fuelmotive8716]

I think everyone agrees that there will be a new heaven and new earth. Just like another thread on this video, partial preterism is great and that’s what we all mean when we use the term. Full preterism is heretical and you can’t rightly be called a Christian if you are a full preterist. That would be denying the return of Christ our lord in the very last days and denying a whole lot of first rank Christian doctrines.

[@fuelmotive8716]

@@james-cq3mi I didn’t call that idea of new heaven and earth heretical. I said full preterism is heretical. If you believe that every single prophecy in the old and New Testament is already fulfilled, then you do not believe in the future resurrection which is a first rank Christian doctrine. That would make you a heretic

[@DannyFesperman]

No, the new heaven and new earth is the new covenant age that we now live in.

[@jimdee9801]

​@@DannyFespermandoesn't feel particularly new or great

[@MB777-qr2xv]

When is/was the Great White Throne Judgment?

[@Unique_Monk]

That’s after Gog and Magog Which is where we are leading up to - we are in Rev 20:7 - Satans little season where he is released to deceive the world

[@DannyFesperman]

It was in 70AD.

[@DannyFesperman]

​@@Unique_Monk 70AD

[@RobertEMason]

@@DannyFespermanthat idea is so absurd it's not worth consideration

[@DannyFesperman]

@@RobertEMason Do you not believe what Jesus said?

[@debbiemcpherson3649]

What group/person does this music at the beginning and the ending of this video? Are they singing the Psalms?

[@eschatology_matters]

I Know My Redeemer Lives by Tim Bushong

[@bradsland]

Shortly come to pass depends completely upon the date of Revelation whether it’s ad 96, as the EcF taught or 67 as dr Gentry says

[@sovgraceogden6415]

You probably get asked all the time but what is that intro\outro song?

[@eschatology_matters]

I Know My Redeemer Lives by Tim Bushong

[@Unique_Monk]

Get Shazam 👍🏽

[@sleepinginthesun4456]

Great episode. I've mostly learned from premil rapture teachers. Where do you think we are currently at in Revelation? Is Satan bound? Will God pour out his wrath on Christians?

[@eschatology_matters]

We would say Satan is currently bound, specifically from deceiving the nations. Check out our material on Amillennialism and Postmillennialism

[@DannyFesperman]

We are in Rev 21,22. If you are saved, you are in the city. If you are lost, you are outside the city.

[@DDDothager]

I see evadence that 2 Easdras is valid.

[@Raymond.philip]

What is the title of the intro song?

[@eschatology_matters]

I Know My Redeemer Lives by Tim Bushong

[@Raymond.philip]

@@eschatology_matters cheers man, thank you.

[@chrisjohnson9542]

Why is there no distinction being made between partial preterism and full preterism? Maybe there was somwhere in the video but from a overview this could very be easily mistaken to be promoting full preterism which is already apparent in the comment section as someone answered somebody's question with a full preterist answer. It seems that that person though this video was supporting his view because there isn't a lot of clarification being made on that. Just thought I would point that out hopefully to help and bring clarification. Maybe the title could clarify more or the description or something. Full preterism is kind of speading rampantly on the internet. Anyways love you guys and appreciate all you do.

[@stuffipost137]

I came here to say just that. I trust these guys and cannot imagine they'd give the floor to a heresy like FP, but still. The distinction ought to be made.

[@eschatology_matters]

Jay did mention the "AD 70 hamner, everything looks like a nail" analogy. Full preterists know we believe they are heretics, and all fp propaganda will be deleted and blocked.

[@eschatology_matters]

@petergouvignon8048 are you a full pretetist?

[@eschatology_matters]

Are you a full preterist? Last time asking. If you dont answer you're getting blocked

[@stuffipost137]

@@eschatology_matters Of course he is. Block him.

[@DanielHolmes1558]

Please link your intro music! Or tell me where I can find it!

[@eschatology_matters]

I Know My Redeemer Lives by Tim Bushong

[@DanielHolmes1558]

@eschatology_matters thanks a bunch! Every time I watch one of your vids I think, "I've got to find out who sings this song!"

[@MB777-qr2xv]

The Bible says there will be a New Heaven and a New Earth wherein Righteousness Reigns and there will be no more crying, no more sorrow, no more pain and NO MORE DEATH. We have not had that since Adam and Eve sinned. It must be future. Of course you will spiritualize it to mean some fairytale existence in the first century.

[@Unique_Monk]

Yep, I believe it’s future - after Gog and Magog - I believe we are in Satans little season rev 20:7

[@DannyFesperman]

What does eternal life mean?

[@DannyFesperman]

​@@Unique_Monk NHNE is the new covenant church age now.

[@403punk3]

@@Unique_Monkamen brother 👊🏼⚡️

[@zgennaro]

When are you going to get Jason Staples on for Romans 11?

[@eschatology_matters]

Don't know who he is. Why would we have him on for Romans 11?

[@zgennaro]

@@eschatology_matters His two books, particularly volume 2, seems to confirm something very similar to Calvin’s view of Romans 11 and Augustine’s view of Romans 2:14-16. No matter what a person’s millennial view, many believe there must be a mass in gathering of elect ethnic Jews in the nation of Israel before the return of Christ. Based on his books, I don’t think this is what Romans 11 means. I feel like I have a superior view of the entire epistle now as well, but waiting for other people to challenge or question him. The books are new but he worked on them for 20 years. There are other KZbin interviews of him if you’re interested.

[@kylewhitten3961]

@@eschatology_matters - “The Resurrection of Israel” by Staples is excellent. Helps make sense of how Paul taught nothing but what the Law & Prophets spoke of. Chew the meat: spit out the bones; like anything else.

[@bradsland]

It’s not strange to talk about things AFTER AD70 if revelation was written in ad. 96, in fact this one truth refutes preterism full stop. Preterism dependsABSOLUTELY on a Date.

[@edwardelliott5756]

In that case Revelation would not be a prophecy but historical account.

[@edwardelliott5756]

@@bradsland So does dispensational.

[@DannyFesperman]

Do you believe what Jesus said, or what Irenaeus said?

[@CAMouc]

I simply can't buy into amillennialism because much of it, like preterism, depends on the idea that Revelation was written before AD 70. If that early date doesn’t hold up, the framework starts falling apart. Preterism assumes Revelation’s prophecies were fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem and Nero’s persecution, but that only works if the book was written before those events happened. Here’s the problem: there’s strong evidence-historical and archaeological-that Revelation was written later, around AD 95-96, during Domitian’s reign. Early church leaders like Irenaeus (who was taught by Polycarp, a direct disciple of John) explicitly said Revelation was written under Domitian, not Nero. Plus, the state of the seven churches described in Revelation 2-3 fits the late first century, not before AD 70. For example, Laodicea is described as wealthy and self-reliant, but it wasn’t until after AD 70, following a major earthquake, that it really became prosperous again. Preterism also heavily ties the Beast to Nero, but the description in Revelation goes far beyond him-things like global influence and universal worship just don’t fit Nero’s limited scope. On the other hand, Domitian’s widespread emperor worship and persecution of Christians line up much better. So for me, premillennialism holds up stronger because it doesn’t hinge entirely on the dating of Revelation. It looks forward to a literal fulfillment of the prophecies, which makes a lot more sense when you consider the evidence for a late date. That’s why I just can’t buy into preterism or amillennialism-it’s too shaky when you dig into the history.

[@blank-964]

👍

[@Mike-qt7jp]

In the preterist view, when does Revelation 21:2 take place? "And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God."

[@eschatology_matters]

@@Mike-qt7jp check out Jeff Durbin's youtube video "A Tale of Two Cities"

[@bing621]

That is not physical

[@Unique_Monk]

Josephus wrote in 70AD, chariots and armies came down from the skies to attack the city

[@Unique_Monk]

Josephus wrote in 70AD, chariots and armies came down from the skies to attack the city The new Jerusalem was created and many think it sits in Antarctica -

[@DannyFesperman]

The new Jerusalem is the church today.

[@bradsland]

TWO big questions Preterists fail to explain convincingly are 1 NERO cannot be the beast, the vision is about the HEALED head / the 8th king of rev 17 8-11, 2 John according to Preterists wrote in c67, at that time he said And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; .....so where are the ten horns between 67- 70 ad? the context of 17 8-11 shows that the ten kings receive their power with the 8th king ... and I agree with E B Elliott that it ought to read at the same time rather than for one hour. I will conclude with a third question WHO IS The healed head? Notice the shift Gentry does ... the heads are all Caesars until we get to the healed one. This is poor and in fact a clear indication that the heads cannot be Caesars.

[@edwardelliott5756]

It could be Caligula since he went into a coma for some time and was thought to be dying. When he came to he was definitely a different and very evil man.

[@DannyFesperman]

It was written in 62AD, not 67AD. The rapture had already happened by 67AD.

[@edwardelliott5756]

@@bradsland Look into history and you will find Nero is a perfect fit.

[@bradsland]

@@edwardelliott5756 BALONEY, sorry but you preterists cannot even read the text you quote from. The vision is about A HEALED HEAD and TEN CROWNED horns, none of which apply to Nero!

[@bradsland]

@@DannyFesperman How could it be written in ad 62? Even Nero's persecution did not START until ad 64! So even if we accepted the early date theory, John could not be exiled until AFTER 64 ad.

[@simonskinner1450]

Revelation written before AD70, John's gospel after AD70 as witness to Praeterism. Jesus was revealed as Judge by Paul and Romans 16:20 "shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly".

[@hughbramlett7689]

When was Armageddon? When did Wormwood hit the earth? When did the sea turn to blood? It's a non starter.

[@Unique_Monk]

Rivers of blood filled the streets of Jerusalem during the massacre of 1.1 million Jews

[@hughbramlett7689]

@Unique_Monk Doesn't explain everything in Revelation by any means whatsoever.

[@Unique_Monk]

@ Only thing left is gog & Magog, the final battle and the destruction of the earth and new creation No rapture No tribulation No wrath Already happened and was against the Jewish nation - fact

[@DannyFesperman]

Where is Armageddon in the Bible?

[@hughbramlett7689]

@DannyFesperman Nuclear winter: Revelation 6:12 Acts 2:20 Joel 2:20 200 million man army: Revelation 9:15-19 The battle: Jeremiah 50 Ezekiel 39:11-15 Nuclear weapon: Zechariah 14:12

[@GregCleland-p2h]

The New Heavens and a New Earth Is. 65:20 “No longer will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, Or an old man who does not live out his days; For the youth will die at the age of one hundred And the one who does not reach the age of one hundred Will be thought accursed. “The death,” Jesus conquered was “spiritual death,” by believing the Gospel! John 5:24. Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life Today, an unbeliever remains in a wrathful state of existence, alienated from God’s life, due either to ignorance or unbelief in the Gospel for righteousness! Unbelief obligates an unbeliever to “the flesh,” for their righteousness! The cause of pride, selfish ambition and every evil we experience, “prior to receiving life and immortality.”

[@RealClaySavage]

70ad teachers ignore Daniel 12:1-2 (in part) "...everyone who is found written in the book (of life) will be rescued. Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life." This did not happen in 70ad! This happens on the day of the Lord. The 7 years are not completed. Daniel 7:25-26, Saints are put into the hand of the antichrist for about 3 ½ years. Who would give Saints to the antichrist half way through the 7 years? No one! The first 3½ years is the time-line! The fig tree parable is not about the generation that sees Isreal reborn. Now 76 years, a generation is not that long. The parable is that Jesus returns immediately after the abomination of desolation where the antichrist is in Israel and stops the sacrifices. Immediately, as in 6 weeks, like summer comes after you see a bud on a fig tree or any tree. We rise with the two witnesses on the day Jesus returns half way through the final 7 years. Preterist are trying to negate the book of Daniel as endtime scripture. Even though Jesus is asked about "the end of the age." Pre-trib teachers seem to ignore Rev 20:4-6. "This is the first resurrection. The rest of the dead do not come to life until after the 1,000 years are completed." There is only one resurrection before the 1,000 years! All the scriptures used by Pre-trib teachers are applicable to a post-trib rapture. Teach the truth. Teach: The sacrifices will start and end before Jesus returns. We rise in the first and only resurrection before the 1,000 years with the two witnesses on the day Jesus returns!

[@lindhend1224]

Can someone please show me A SCRIPTURE that specifically says there is a gap between weeks 69 and 70? I’m looking for biblical proof please, not anything taught by man but by God Himself. Thanks. I’m just so tired of everybody calling out everyone else these days. Let’s let iron sharpen iron and not sound so legalistic like the Pharisees of Jesus’ day. ❤❤

[@DannyFesperman]

The great tribulation was 64-66AD against Christians. The wrath of God was 66-70AD against unbelieving j**s in Jerusalem, Mystery Babylon.

[@bradsland]

No way can Nero be the beast, he is the sixth king/ in Gentry’s scheme, THE VISION IS ABOUT THE HEALED HEAD AND TEN ACTIVE KINGS

[@Unique_Monk]

Rev says FIVE HAVE FALLEN ONE IS Caesar Augustus Tiberius Claudius Caligula NERO Nero = 666 Nero was known as the beast NERO began the tribulation of Christians post the fire of Rome Daniel’s statue Legs of iron = Rome Toes of iron and clay = Rome & Israel Both became one in persecuting Christians and were responsible for the crucifixion

[@ForWhatItsWorth-l8q]

These are all very gentile European ways of looking at this subject. All the covenants were written to Israel and Judah. The prophecies of the kingdom of God are written about Israel. Israel is the central key player to prophecy.

[@Sad_But_True17]

Are you referring to Israel the nation, the Jewish religion, or the Jewish ethnicity? If you are referring to the Jewish religion, which one?

[@EricDavidHall]

Babylon The Medes Persia Greece Daniel 8:21 NKJV - “And the male goat is the kingdom of Greece. The large horn that is between its eyes is the first king. Daniel 11:2 NKJV - “And now I will tell you the truth: Behold, three more kings will arise in Persia, and the fourth shall be far richer than them all; by his strength, through his riches, he shall stir up all against the realm of Greece. Rome is not mentioned anywhere in prophecy, all New Testament beliefs, including preterism, are eisegesis.

[@jimdee9801]

Ah ths NKJV - that explains it all not

[@EricDavidHall]

@jimdee9801 then why don't you just explain everything and be done with it?

[@silvershelbygt500]

🤦‍♂️ 😩

[@ottoman9029]

great conversation. horrible theme music.

[@AustinGonder]

Amazing music

[@eschatology_matters]

Great comment. Horrible taste in music

[@ottoman9029]

Baroque allegro pieces always work for these type of topics. I know it’s weird but they simply do. R C sproul used handels sinfonia from the Messiah as his theme, and Bruce Gore uses a Bach invention. You guys should explore some Vivaldi, Telemann or Scarlatti.

[@ottoman9029]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZnchKJrpJlsgZIsi=ybpEC0nieECaHdxw

[@eschatology_matters]

@ottoman9029 fair enough. But saying I Know My Redeemer Lives is "horrible", well....appreciate you 👊

[@RobTheTruth]

Its nonsense

[@oldranger649]

to repeat @chrisjohnson9542 Why is there no distinction being made between partial preterism and full preterism?

[@eschatology_matters]

Because it's assumed we are discussing the orthodox preterist view. That being said, something could have been said pertaining to it. We have several videos calling FP heresy, so our position as a channel is clear. So far every FP who has commented has been blocked and deleted.