Heel Up Double Bass Drum Technique Exercises (Ankle Motion) - James Payne

[@krzysztofstachak7122]

Most underrated drum teacher on KZbin, thank you for your hard work! You changed my playing forever man, thanks!

[@Demonithese]

This video was really helpful for me - I was having a lot of trouble figuring out how to practice switching between the motions. Thanks!

[@JamesPayneDrums]

Glad it helped!

[@mikesmith1290]

I'm teaching myself how to play the drums, and am finding your videos the most helpful! I really appreciate your efforts and explanations. Very easy to understand.

[@tObito687]

how's it going?

[@TupDigital]

Woah, weren’t you the original drummer in Suffocation? ‘Talk about humility!’😄

[@Barek666]

I- i kind of can't learn the ankle motion..

[@stevehae9017]

Dude its insane you have so few views and subs. I started learning drums on my own, and your videos are my no.1 educational source until now!

[@Demonithese]

Coming back a year later - the biggest hurdle for me was understanding that the ankle motion is not generated with the shin muscle but the CALF muscle. Once I realized that ankle motion involves flexing the quadriceps and your feet sort of "float" above the pedals with the strike generated by contracting the calf muscle, I finally felt like i was getting somewhere. My current hurdle is the issue you point out at 5:55. Weirdly, my non-dominant left foot does the ankle motion perfectly yet my right foot has a lot of trouble staying synchronized to the pedal, likely due to bad technique caused by ingrained muscle memory from being self-taught. Thank you again for sharing this very helpful lesson.

[@arkhamianotargos]

Man I have that issue with my right leg and it's so frustrating... It still continues to contract like a whole piece of wood as soon as I play a bit quick or involve my second foot. Left ankle is relax but right is blocked and the whole leg contracts.

[@fsudrummer3640]

James plays the ankle motion using mostly shin muscles.

[@BurrenSHdrums]

This video deserves 1 billion views

[@scottyarbrough7279]

This is exactly what i need I can do one or the other. I need to do both smoothly. Thanks James!

[@nicolaslemaistre6137]

Very good explanations! Thanks a lot

[@isb9006]

Working on this motion without the spring made such a difference in my range of motion and really helped me get a better feel for what I should be doing when playing heel up. No more small twitches! Thanks for the great video!

[@JamesPayneDrums]

I'm so glad to hear that Ian!!

[@isb9006]

@@JamesPayneDrums taking the springs off really helped me notice how much work my left side needs! I can get each side going separately, but then alternating strokes becomes tricky. With these instructions, though, I feel more confident than I have before because I have a good sense of the mechanics behind it all. Thanks again!

[@fishfinderchartersdavis9556]

Incorrect technique and spring tension equals knock ups lock ups when playing love this so much your a legend thank you 🙏🏻

[@scottreid3540]

Great teacher and player. You deserve more views and subs man thanks for what you do its helping me tremendously

[@JamesPayneDrums]

Thanx man, I really appreciate!

[@IcebergsViet]

Very helpful video. Thank you.

[@josefseb22]

James, your videos are first class! I love how you address many natural follow up questions your viewers may have. Subscribed!

[@JamesPayneDrums]

Thank you! I really appreciate!

[@TheaSVTCARAT]

Thanks for your hard work!!! So useful and really detailed! Like your videos

[@onlycalmchannel]

Ok, I gave this video a chance. I did what he said to some extent. Geez, the ankle fatigue and pain for days was not welcome. Then after studying the fulcrum point of the pedal (the point where you get more motion from the beater to head with minimal pressure), I learned I did NOT have to employ the ankle gymnastics James talks about. Now, James instruction is valid, IF your ankles can take the workout he shows. I'm happy with the maximum performance from my pedal using the fulcrum point about 35% up from the heel pad of my pedal. And my foot only has to slide up to 50% from the heel pad to assert control for single strokes and eight notes. The remainder of speed (16ths and so on) comes largely from the fulcrum point on my pedal.

[@miked5487]

Amazing video.. this helped me alot with developing my ankle technique and trying to understand whats going on. What beater distance and spring tension do you recommend for this?

[@mujiwaranojerry]

I have a speed cobra and i cant do the exercise without the spring, i dont know if im the problem or the pedal its designed for work only with spring

[@drummykriss]

Nice video. So ankle technique is like dribble with toe and ankle is what executes this dribble? My issue I guess is that my double bass left pedal is tighter and it's a lot harder to get a rebounce (spring tension should be the same) and I can't get constant strokes if I try a left foot with the right pedal I can even get constant stroke action. So I can't understand if it's still a technique issue or pedals issue because with right foot I can play on both pedals but it's harder with the left one but I can.

[@kalagan]

Hey James do you keep your leg "floating in the air" while performing the ankle motion?

[@martinfrink]

Hey James, thank you so far! Very helpful! Could you give some advice about how to play double strokes even in slow, medium and up tempo? Is it the same switching between leg and ankle? Or is it just in case that the FIRST stroke of the double stroke is emphasized? How do you us the two motions when the SECOND stroke of the double stroke has to be louder? Thank you man!

[@srwarrior134]

The documented source I've seen is George Kollias 16 week program for double bass The whole basis of that program is switching from full leg to ankle Similar in concept to this video Dishing my 2 cents and more reference ideas for fellow Drummers Happy drumming

[@mitchokinawa7325]

Good stuff! Thanks!

[@JamesPayneDrums]

Glad you liked it!

[@dreamdrummer]

Great video! Little question though... with the ankle-motion, do you use the calfmuscle or more from the shinmuscle?

[@JamesPayneDrums]

Mostly shin muscle :)

[@dreamdrummer]

@@JamesPayneDrums thanks for the reply :-). I've been playing for years like this, but recently tried to incorporate the calfmuscle because its a bigger muscle with more strenght. But my results with the shinmuscle are much better, so I'm sticking to that :-).

[@jameshetfield1792]

What are the alternatives to ankle motion when playing fast?

[@fsudrummer3640]

Swivel, pressure Swivel, and heel toe double strokes.

[@matrixmodulator]

hm.. why does my beater just stays on the practice pad if i remove the springs? it doesnt move like yours at all.

[@coreywilliams6279]

I have a question. Whats the suggested bpm to start out with?

[@ajandas4178]

Hey James can I use ankle weights while practicing this particular motion .... Actually I m already able to get a clean motion by isolating the ankle only ....

[@JamesPayneDrums]

Hey! I never used ankle weights or stuff like that, my goal it's actually to do less effort as possible, so, I guess you can, but am not sure if it's very useful!

[@shahfacekillah]

Hey, James. I have a question. I hope I get an answer. So, I'm practicing this technique. However, on my right foot, I get this twitch when I try. It's like I can't control it. It's super frustrating!! My left foot is fine. I tried to maybe add a swivel to try to control the twitch but it ain't helping. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you.

[@Alvin-mm1df]

napalmfred I have the exact same problem

[@JamesPayneDrums]

Hi Napalm, that is very common and used to happen to me too at first. The reason is because your brain doesn't know exactly how to control the motion at a certain speed. You have to focus the exercise and the motion only on one direction, so that you have a strong guide for your brain to tell your foot what to do, and the best way to do this is by concentrating only on the up motion, it's like if you work on pulling the foot up and then release it letting it fall back down. In this way you will only think of one part of the motion and it takes 50% of the work for your brain to think away. I hope this make sense and helps you!

[@shahfacekillah]

@@JamesPayneDrums thanks, James. I'll keep that in mind and try it out later today.

[@sethlove06]

Very good Q&A , thanks for the detailed reply James !

[@cedempire4932]

Do i need high settings of drumthrone sa i can balance properly?

[@TupDigital]

Definitely. Make sure your hips are higher than your knees. Also helps that your heels are in front of your knees, if you were to draw a straight vertical line down from your knees. Meaning your shins will be slightly sloped towards pedals instead of straight up&down. The big part of it that you can’t tell from watching is the emphasis on using your calf muscles and not shin or upper leg. The key for me was learning to use my heels in the motion and to relax the front ankle(/shin)muscles. Prior to this, I thought of every stroke as being a downward push of the toes, but that will eventually lead you to hit a wall.

[@cedempire4932]

@@TupDigital need to talk to u bro. U have facebook account?

[@Barek666]

But when i remove my spring, i can't move my pedal

[@PraveenGupta-rd7sx]

Great video explaining the nuances of the technique. But I still don't understand how shall we keep our leg lifted at all times(whenever we are playing bass drum). How can we sit straight when our legs are exerting a torque with the throne being the pivot. Shouldn't we lean backwards rather than sitting straight? I tried keeping my leg lifted while playing but I can't do it for more than 3 seconds. After that I have to rest it. Is it just about building the muscles to lift the leg up?

[@JamesPayneDrums]

There's a main factor in balance that's the head. If you play looking down, most likely you are keeping your head leaning in front and that puts a lot of the balance on your legs, try moving your head while keeping the legs raised and see if that changes something for you. On the other side, you should only keep the leg raised in the moments where you play ankle motion techniques, because that's the only moment where you will actually need to free the ankles from the weight of the body. But finding the right balance will for sure allow you to keep the leg raised for more than 3 seconds. Also sitting on all the surface of the stool and not on half of it (how is very common to do) will help.

[@PraveenGupta-rd7sx]

@@JamesPayneDrums Thanks for the tip. I tried this (keeping the head up & occupying full throne) and realised, it really does play a role in balance. One last thing I want to ask is, are the hip muscles used while playing single strokes without ankle motion i.e. lifting the whole up & dropping down giving us 1 stroke. Currently what I do is just use my calf muscles to pull my heel up quickly, because of which, the leg looses the ground and I get a stroke while coming down. For me it's like calf and shin muscles are doing all the work and I am not even using my hip muscles for any leg movement on drums. Maybe that's why I am not able to raise my legs in the air because I haven't been using them much? What do you think..

[@JamesPayneDrums]

Yes, that's very possible. The leg motion is done by the upstroke (raising the hip), and the downstroke (leaving all the weight of the leg falling on the toes first and rest of the foot immediately after) .If you would do this on the floor without the pedal you would play a flam between toes first and heel after.

[@PraveenGupta-rd7sx]

Great!!! Thanks for the help

[@alanvictor4881]

@@PraveenGupta-rd7sx Hi Praveen and James, I have the same problem . I just can't stay with my leg lifted por 3 seconds. My hip muscles start to hurt. How did you work out? I think this is a problem of balance but I have no progress. Thanks. Sorry for my English!

[@fishfinderchartersdavis9556]

👍🏻

[@shahfacekillah]

I don't understand how you get the beater to come back with no spring attached?? I mean, that's literally the function of the spring!! I tried detaching the spring on my pedal, beater hits the head and stays there!! Can anyone explain?????

[@JamesPayneDrums]

Hey man, the beater comes back thanks to the rebound. If you don't have a surface that gives you enough rebound you won't be able to do the exercise unfortunately. But the point is to just deal with the rebound of the pedal without having to deal with the spring tension requirement.

[@shahfacekillah]

@@JamesPayneDrums thanks for the reply. That makes sense. My practice kit is a Roland td-15. However, I practiced this on the floor then on the pedal with the spring attached and I noticed right away that this is a game changer!! Thanks for the uploads.

[@JamesPayneDrums]

No problem at all and I'm super glad to hear you are finding benefits from the videos!!

[@sanfordnipes5378]

Men thank u so much very helpful 🤘🤘🖤

[@Alvin-mm1df]

I get a constant twitch when i do this, what in the holy hell are metal drumers snorting?

[@JamesPayneDrums]

Ahahah! That happens because it's like if your brain at one point gets confused on what signal should send to your foot and it starts to do lose control. At a certain speed our brain won't be able to think of everything that is happening so if you only think of the up motion (so only half of the otion your foot is doing) it will simplify the work for it and should make it easier. I should make a video about this since I saw a bunch of comments about it.

[@nunyabidness7052]

I do not like leg motion at all, it's heel down for me on slower tempos