Jar Jar is the Key (to all of this)

[@EmperorLemon]

WAR THUNDER is paying me to complain about Star Wars. New players can redeem their massive bonus pack here: playwt.link/emplemon

[@1in7billion94]

Thank emp for uploading another banger

[@skinnyjeanz5312]

Hopefully it doesn't come with exposing weapon documents.

[@Pyt3x]

REDEEM SAAR

[@sethmurrin5273]

You are one of the highest quality KZbinrs around, brother. Cheers for the upload 🍻

[@NicoTheCinderace]

@@skinnyjeanz5312 Too late.

[@williamplants67]

Lucas funded the prequels himself. Essentially, they are some of the most expensive independent films ever made. Hence the unprecedented amount of creative control he had. So the studio definitely wasn’t the reason Jar Jar’s role was minimized.

[@patientallison]

In fact, basically every Star Wars film from ESB to RotS was an independent film. The merch sales from ANH funded ESB and from there the profits of one film funded the next. Fox's logo was only in the credits because of a distribution deal, they had no creative involvement.

[@williamplants67]

@@patientallison Absolutely true!

[@FormerGovernmentHuman]

@@patientallisonFox had no involvement but you can definitely tell the dream team he has in the OT is definitely gone by TPM. Including his wife who is arguably one of the only reasons star wars became a success to begin with, they saved it through editing. So almost none of the people involved in the OT besides Lucas were even there and unlike the OT nobody could question him or move him on some things or were too scared to even try. George is amazing at world building and creating the foundations of a story but his dialogue is and probably always will be dogshit and I would argue the OT’s success, lack of anyone to check GL and his own arrogance and hubris led to a lower quality product. But I’m sure you already knew that. That being said I love the prequels. I grew up on them and had just watched the OT for the first time maybe a year before phantom menace. But they definitely could have been far better. Good news is, they still aren’t as bad as the prequels.

[@FormerGovernmentHuman]

@@patientallisonMeh ignore that comment, almost everything I brought up is talked about before I’m even halfway through the video lol

[@DMCMaster550]

@@FormerGovernmentHuman Marcia did not save the film in editing and has put the rumors that she saved the film to rest. She didn't even edit as much as the other three editors, only a couple key scenes. BTS books, written by editors and people who worked on the film, all contradict the idea that she saved it. George himself was also heavily involved in the editing process and was the one who made the decision to cut the Luke at Anchorhead scenes, he also fired the previous editor John Jympsom, who was the one responsible for the boring edit that people like to pretend George was responsible for. He hated it. Also, every film is "saved in the edit." That's why they edit them.

[@n1celyd0ne]

there will Never Ever be another pod racer like Anakin Skywalker

[@SushiElemental]

The truth ☝🏻

[@DanialTarki]

There will Never Ever be a villain like Darth Vader There will Never Ever be another overhated Star Wars movie like The Last Jedi There will Never Ever be a creamy guy like Sheev There will Never Ever be a big of a plot hole as the Death Star chunk surviving There will Never Ever be a random gang like Kanjiklub There will Never Ever be a mentor like Yoda There will Never Ever be a misunderstood yet improved snail man like Jar Jar There will Never Ever be a great character like Obi-Wan Kenobi

[@rickswordfire4774]

@@DanialTarki TLJ overhated? I disagree. I think it's properly hated.

[@LordBurger]

@@DanialTarkibro tried to sneak in that TLJ opinion 💀

[@DanialTarki]

@@rickswordfire4774Case in point.

[@Haphazard7]

The greatest quote in this whole video: "It would be the equivalent of putting a minion in Lord of the Rings."

[@BokBarber]

He said it. This edit has to happen now.

[@bronzejourney5784]

That doesnt even make any sense. Because the LOTR already has hobbits in it. Which in comparsion to Jar Jar, contributed way less and obstructed the main objective way more than Jar Jar ever did. First 3 movies of the Star Wars are single most unwatchable goofy-ahh movies for children trash i have ever seen in my life. And that includes newest movies. I have always put off watching Star Wars because i always knew how retarded their fanbase was. But me being me, decided to give my final benefit of the doubt to the series this weekend and just sat down and watched all the movies(apart from latest ever one, which i think is called Acolyte), and what do you know, i was right all this time.

[@augustortiz]

It made me laugh pretty hard. The thought of adding a minion to LOTR is outrageous lol

[@NorthernWindNut]

I audibly laughed at that

[@oldylad]

@@bronzejourney5784that’s what I tell them. They hate jar jar cuz it reminds them that these are kids movies. The prequels at least brought in adult themes and stories

[@broseffman]

That shot of Lucas holding the lightsaber with Mickey Mouse and friends is one of my favorite pictures of all time. The look on his face is priceless. It’s so god awfully sad, commercial, and ominous at the same time.

[@lunalucifer3335]

time stamp?

[@lunalucifer3335]

nevermind it appeared when i sent it

[@jackelewish1568]

He was sold to the white slavers

[@jackelewish1568]

He was sold to the white slavers

[@jackelewish1568]

He was sold to the white slavers

[@АрвигБадмаев-и1э]

One of my most favorite pieces of lore is the Jar Jar after the Revenge of the Sith. All adults of Naboo hated him because he gave emergency powees to Palpatine, which lead him to becoming an emperor. He was exiled, mocked and driven to destitute. But he worked as a street clown for pennies for the rest of his life, bringing genuine joy to children, many of whom suffered under Empire and who knew nothing of his supposed sins and just liked the goofy gungan.

[@yannicreicher6811]

A very meta ending for Jar Jar

[@donahuefilms1895]

At least he did something good after he ruined the franchise

[@berserkasaurusrex4233]

No, he was clearly brought to Alderaan with Leia's adopted family. And one day, decades after the fall of the Republic, he looked up and saw a bright light in the sky overhead.

[@psyguyyggdrasil9071]

Damn I though he was a secret sith

[@robertwolff3580]

That’s only in the shitty Disney canon

[@pierrebegley2746]

Honestly I feel so happy for Ahmed Best. After so much crap being hurled at him it's so nice to see him being appreciated by fans and playing the kind of Jar Jar we've always wanted to see. Meesa proud..

[@WobblesandBean]

Agreed. The way he was treated is exactly why I hate fandoms of all forms.

[@SamJGlaysher]

Hate was definitely not needed. Ahmed Best didn’t write the character, he was only doing his job

[@SGresponse]

@@SamJGlaysher Go peruse the cast interviews from the first movie to contradict your statement. He gave it his 200% and pissed everyone off. So he clearly was not just doing his job like Albert Speer.

[@Leitis_Fella]

Just some Polish dude named Jan Jan Binkowskowicz

[@IKMojito]

​@@SGresponsewhere the fuck did you get Albert Speer from lol

[@MoeHasubandoAbsolver]

If Jar Jar had kept the "silent" portion of his silent film inspiration intact, I don't think the character would have been so bad.

[@Imperials3nate]

Very true. And maybe then when he reveals his sith alignment, nmhe speaks in a way that'd be intimidating

[@intensesqualor2268]

A Jar Jar more akin to Charlie Chaplin would have probably been received better by audiences. There’s already some Buster Keaton in him when he’s scrambling across the tank.

[@Electrolux219]

That would actually be really cool. All through the movie there’s just this doofy looking alien thing doing Charlie Chaplin style sight gags in the background, slowly getting more focus until the very end where it’s revealed he’s been a key figure quietly manipulating things the whole time.

[@Barakon]

Still feel bad for his actor though.

[@Henskelion]

There's a fandub that just makes him speak in a thick Australian accent and boy does it go a long way to making him tolerable.

[@JonBrase]

24:40 The thing is, Lucas was also a nerd before it was cool, and Star Wars drew a lot of inspiration from the Sci-Fi comics that had been around when he was a child. He was making films for 10-year-old George. The Jar-Jar hate was a jab at Lucas's own nerdiness. In fact, here's something that would make the Jar-Jar hate especially tragic: Was Jar-Jar a self-insert?

[@MDPToaster]

Jar-JAr's mannerisms and voice were all inventions of the actor who played him, Ahmed Best which makes the whole 'race traitor' branding a bit sad.

[@fortynights1513]

When did becoming a nerd be cool, and what made it cool?

[@zach3597]

@@fortynights1513unfortunately the $ programmers began to get paid

[@negirno]

@@fortynights1513 Nerd never became cool. Only the overly idealized version of it, the stereotypical adorkable glasses guy who types on his MacBook in Starbucks became cool.

[@Nexor1]

@@negirnoyeah as someone in high school nerds are very much still not “cool”

[@Kingdeme]

Lucas selling Star Wars after years of everyone clowning on him makes me think of something I heard once: God has two ways to teach us a lesson. He either takes everything from you, or gives you exactly what you want.

[@ventriloquistmagician4735]

amen, based

[@supadead]

Based

[@shadowdaber284]

Based on

[@zeeteepippi275]

I would vastly prefer if "God" actually gave us what we want then...

[@hi2u670]

“When the Gods wish to punish us, they answer our prayers.” -Oscar Wilde

[@SirNardManhawk]

The roadmap for a successful Darth Jar Jar storyline was already laid out in one of the inspirations for Star Wars. Asimov's Foundation series had already popularized the idea of a fracturing Galactic Empire whose capitol was a planet entirely converted to cityscape. The second book of the series gives us a literal clown tagging along with the heroes whose buffoonish antics and seeming cowardice is revealed to be something much more manipulative and malevolent. If any of you here have ever been intrigued by the theory and want to see something like it play out, I suggest giving those books a read. Foundation and Empire is the book where it goes down.

[@darthbigred22]

beyond gay...no thanks Jar Jar being the big bad is lamer than Ewoks defeating the Empire.

[@Xalantor]

I read that George Lucas drastically changed the script of the trilogy after the backlash particularly concerning Jar Jar. He also mentions that the movies rhyme, and the most direct comparison to Jar Jar is Yoda, who is also a funny strange creature who turns out to be a jedi master, subverting the expectations of the audience of what a jedi master is. Having Jar Jar turn out to be a manipulative sith lord would satisfy the condition of a rhyme to Yoda being a jedi master.

[@jeffw8218]

@@SirNardManhawk Yes, George Lucas has all the Cliff’s Notes for those books in his “writer’s room”. George should’ve realized it was too complex of an idea for him to execute. Or rather, he should’ve hired a better writer to help streamline his vision. Tone down the goofy antics, make Jar Jar’s voice more clear, and add a scene of Jar Jar explaining his plan to another Sith Lord who isn’t Palpatine (somehow), since Palpatine was already the “Phantom Menace” who was manipulating people in order to become Chancellor. Then, in Attack of the Clones, you would’ve had Darth Jar Jar instead of Christopher Lee’s character who came out of nowhere.

[@Florkl]

Original Star Wars was very good at adapting classic book plotlines into movie form in Lucas’s epic setting. Then Lucas lost people who would tell him “no” and that is always a recipe for disaster.

[@PALACIO254]

Jar jar was the mule

[@UnculturedSwineStudios]

Blaming Mike Stoklasa for being singlehandedly responsible for the sequel trilogy is my favorite narrative on the internet

[@sweetreamer5101]

He said that JJ should direct it!!! Not write it!!! JJ couldn't write his way out of a middle school fan fiction contest.

[@thecianinator]

It's not even absurd, there's a publicly visible and easily verifiable paper trail of events starting with Hollywood writers and producers retweeting Mike's review to each other and ending with the sale of the franchise, all within less than a year iirc.

[@Shiftarus]

He's not a murderer, he's just a coroner

[@mtd-zi6yu]

"We all know I had nothing to do with JJ Abrams making the sequels." -Mike Stoklasa "...you don't know that." -Rich Evans

[@Henskelion]

The amount of zoomers who *actually* believe that is kind of disturbing lol

[@rebel_diamonds]

Ahmed Best stated that it more the media and not the fans that really put him in a dark place. Jake Lloyd was the one bullied at school.

[@cara-seyun]

It’s actually tragic what happened to Jake Lloyd

[@christianloper9483]

​@@cara-seyun He was just a poor fucking kid...

[@EJD339]

Now the fans do a lot of the damage and honestly have way too much control. Social media is a great and terrible thing.

[@Andy_the_Collector925]

​@@EJD339*COUGH* (But fandoms are worse...) *COUGH*

[@julianbell9161]

@@Andy_the_Collector925if anything should count as a fandom, I think Star Wars is the dictionary definition of a fandom

[@stallionsLP]

The funniest part of it all is that had Darth Jar Jar actually happened by movie three, it would be seen not only as a great plot twist, but also reframing the character as the greatest con-man/trickster of the entire franchise because he managed to fool everyone INCLUDING THE AUDIENCE to think he is just a dumb cringe-tier fool until the end. Plus, if the reveal happened right after the Senate scene that gave Palpy unlimited power, it could have led to a Jar Jar vs. Yoda fight to have the two be the light and dark mirror of the same character. Allowing it to "rhyme like poetry" by the end, as Lucas himself liked to do things.

[@bcj842]

Darth Jar Jar really was the perfect set up.

[@DarthHoosier3038]

That actually reminds me of Cars 2. The whole plot of that movie was that Mater was made out to be this incredibly effective super-spy because everyone viewed him as just some dumb idiot who couldn’t possibly be a spy.

[@jeffw8218]

Except it doesn’t work because the script was terrible and Darth Jar Jar would’ve made it worse. Imagine how horrific it would be to have a character like Bugs Bunny, Micky Mouse, or Roger Rabbit, turn into a violent killing machine after being introduced as a good/goofy character. Darth Jar Jar would’ve only worked if he was shown on screen (in the first film) talking to another Sith about his plans, and to tone down many of his goofy antics, like stepping in shit or getting farted in the face.

[@Zer0ne-Infinite]

​@jeffw8218 we don't know the script from ep 2 and 3, they could have done more to set it up, like damn all the signs were there. Like damn he really likes to talk to palpatine who we all know is Darth sidious, and the speech of Darth plagueis might have ended different. Or palpatine kills him or something, who knows

[@rikard.h]

@@jeffw8218 Funny you should say that, because there is a deleted scene in the beginning of Ep3 where Palpatine thanks Jar Jar for aiding him. It didn't have to be in the first or second film. His goofy antics would've subsided the longer the trilogy went on.

[@jacobgale4792]

"I may have gone too far in a few places" -George Lucas

[@MrsMadam-o1d]

Part 2: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l4LIkq2qjbebf68

[@MrsMadam-o1d]

E

[@xp7575]

Every frame was so dense though, I clapped

[@AnomalySource]

Yo creature pfp

[@SillySeekerProductions]

@@AnomalySource RIP Creatures and RIP Cow Chop 😢

[@TeeGee3]

And once again the EmpLemon cycle continues: -The Excitement of a new video -The Joy of watching the video -The Pain of waiting for the next video

[@TheNade]

The true downward spiral

[@pyoxydoge2566]

It's almost like a downward spiral

[@SuperDuperHappyTime]

You could go watch another of his videos. Then another Then you’ve watched them all Then again And he STILL hasn’t released a new one.

[@tahfy1615]

Duality of an emp fan

[@tehardegames]

I am stil waiting for the next Never ever....

[@robertloveall4842]

I was in the room for his talk at Cannes and was so grateful to see him get such a long ovation. Love him or hate him he’s the architect of many of our childhoods and one of the most influential artists in history and I’ve always had the utmost respect for him. I was so lucky to be in the same room as him while he’s still around

[@joeym5243]

Don't let this distract you from the fact that Jar Jar led the movement to give Chancellor Palpatine emergency Powers

[@fnfn9199]

So jar jar js technically the person who have us the empire..... Gotta love the sass from George

[@stevencoardvenice]

Yea that idiot was a senator

[@dulguunjargal1199]

​@fnfn9199 Palpatine needs to have Emergency Powers after the Fire in thr Senate for "Security" Purposes

[@mariussielcken]

ALL IN FAVA?

[@silverschannel8578]

"Dellow Felegates"

[@evan.smith016]

I think what George meant with his infamous line was hoping the audience would appreciate the technical side of Jar Jar’s inclusion similar to how to technical side of the original trilogy helped make it an iconic saga.

[@vincenttapia2037]

I think that is what he really meant. People look to much in this fan theory. Also, it doesn't make sense with Palptine being in it since the first film.

[@jeffw8218]

@@evan.smith016 George also said it himself. “He may have went too far in a few places.” Jar Jar was TOO goofy, and the “dark Jar Jar” was way too subdued. The film needed a scene showing the audience (not the characters) that Jar Jar was a secret Sith Lord, and that all of his antics were working to trick the Jedi into trusting him. But even if the films had that scene, they still would’ve sucked: boring Jedi, static directing, dumb fight scenes and space battles, etc. No amount of editing could’ve saved The Phantom Menace or any of the prequel films.

[@neuronoc.7343]

The hell kind of crack are you on? The prequels were definitely corny, but to say they had boring fight scenes is like saying J.J. Abrams did a good job with the sequels.

[@neuronoc.7343]

*dumb

[@user-vi4xy1jw7e]

​@@jeffw8218Revenge of the Sith was decent imo. Phantom and Attack were trash though.

[@palanquin6789]

People hating and send death threats to Ahmed Best for playing Jar Jar Binks is peak internet depravity and delusion

[@0Diazzz0]

But these kinds of things also happened before the internet. This is more about individual people that demand that the world revolves around themselves. 😂

[@palanquin6789]

@@0Diazzz0 true

[@Denneska]

There were bad people before the Internet, my friend 🙂

[@sethhancock40]

It's *almost* peak internet depravity and delusion. It's outdone by people giving this same treatment to Jake Lloyd, who was only a *child* at the time, and causing him permanent mental issues because of it.

[@shockwave.studios]

Sending hate mail or messages to actors is something I never really could comprehend. Same was done to plenty of others, like Skyler's actor from Breaking Bad

[@ImBarryScottCSS]

Basically the fans bullied Lucas so relentlessly that he grew to resent the thing in his life that he loved the most, and was so fucking jaded that he gave it away for money he didn't even want and or need. The fans got what they deserved.

[@robertortiz-wilson1588]

Yes, but also he was arrogant and thought he didn't need a team like he did during the original trilogy. Including people like his first wife.

[@ImBarryScottCSS]

@@robertortiz-wilson1588 True, but episodes 7-9 could have been an opportunity to learn from past mistakes and apply those lessons, instead they were handed off wholesale to people who didn't understand or care about SW.

[@trustno173]

@@robertortiz-wilson1588 This is a rather blatant lie. If you watch the behind the scenes stuff for the prequels and TCW and the making of/art books, it becomes very obvious that they were a very collaborative effort; the artists influenced the scripts a ton. His first wife cheated on him with a guy installing a sky light and was basically blacklisted by the entire industry over it.

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

⁠@@trustno173Do you blame her? The guy basically ignored her for decades and basically made her into a glorified interior decorator to placate her when it wasn't what she wanted. And no, she left him for the guy who made the stained glass for the Ranch.

[@AntiContradiction]

​@Lobsterwithinternet excusing cheating😂, you've already lost the argument bro

[@SnipingIsAGoodJobMate]

"Lucas, are you sure you want Jar Jar to have so much screentime?" "hehehe funny cgi creature"

[@ostracon5412]

lmao

[@fernandosalazar3366]

Thats how he be laughing too hehehehe

[@jaykelley103]

Based.

[@sunsetman22]

to think that the hatred of Jar Jar created a domino effect that led to Disney acquiring and mangling Star Wars. I'm really sorry for everyone that is affected by the death of the franchise, but really, you began shitting on it while it was still good and had a soul. pretentious idiots saying otherwise won't change that fact. mfers will quote "don't ask questions, just consume and wait for next product" like their personal mantra, and yet won't live by their own words. these are the same people that think a goofy character like Jar Jar is some sort of crime against cinema and humanity, when that overblown hatred got us here in the first place.

[@shibavekreal]

​@@sunsetman22get off your high horse the Prequels were not just hated because of Jar Jar lol

[@thechugg4372]

Episode 1 is so infamous there is a movie based around the hype around it, with the plot being a bunch of nerds trying to steal the movie before it releases. At the end before the movie starts rolling one fan asks "What if it sucks?". Cut to black, roll credits. Edit: The movie was called Fanboys.

[@catb0mb]

It makes even more sense as to why once TFA came out he kept going on about how he'd just be making movies "for himself" now, that no one would see them. He just wanted to create stuff that he enjoyed and made him happy and got insane amounts of vitriol in return. I don't blame him for becoming the way he did after EP1. Putting your soul and joy into something and to only have it get pure hate in return, more then just simple criticism, needs to hurt.

[@thesunthrone]

And he was proven right in the end, too. He knew the fans would hate what will come, but he was so bitter that he no longer cared. Imagine what it takes, for you to start to disdain your life's work that you're willing to just flip the table and sell it all. And say what you want about his mistakes, the prequels were undeniably, 100% Lucas - he had the final say on every piece of creation there, and he gave free reign to a host of incredibly skilled artists to just go nuts and do their absolute best. The sheer amount of supplementary art for the prequels and the worldbuilding of the Republic era is immense, and overshadows even the output of modern Disney's entire franchise. And the legacy Skywalker Ranch has given to special effects and sound in movies as a whole? Immeasurable. The fans deserve everything that happened to Star Wars. They deserve the empire that descended and made a mockery of what they thought and believed.

[@Alfafabatutinha]

​​@@thesunthroneNah, excluding the "fans" that harrassed the VA and everyone involved, people had the right to criticize the generally disliked parts of the movie, he should have taken the constructive criticism and fixed them in the prequel sequels instead of crying in his pile of billions and giving it all up to the rat. If he was a bad movie director that only got hate i would understand, but that is not the case, the OT is universally loved and american grafitti is very well recieved but not as well known in comparison, and they expected better than this.

[@thesunthrone]

@@Alfafabatutinha Criticism is one thing. Endless vitriol to the point of absurdity is another. EmpLemon goes over just how ruthlessly Lucas was lambasted, but even the montage fails to capture how massive the backlash was - and so it achieved the opposite effect of any charitable criticism would try to achieve - apathy. And as Kreia so aptly puts it, apathy is death. Just watch how Lucas was during the making of Episode 1 and how he is during the making of Episode 2 and 3. With Episode 1 he's building practical sets on location, getting involved, it's clear he really wants to do this, but after the first, he just rather sit in front of screens drinking coffee, and have the sets be built in 3D afterwards. Because hey, why bother going the extra mile if he'll probably just get blasted for it? The fans got everything they deserved. Now there's plenty to criticize and be vitriolic about, and make endless angry videos and life off these rants. Such is the end result of every fan that gets in their head that by piling endless unsolicited critique on the things they like, that somehow they'll get more and better things. That's just not how it works. Creatives are just people, and it's really easy to get fed up with obnoxious fans and not give them anything at all or even start directly spiting them. Lucas didn't sell off Star Wars just because he wanted to cash out. He sold off Star Wars because he could no longer take it.

[@thirion1850]

@@thesunthrone This is the take, right here. Fans that made the Star Wars franchise their entire identity forgot that artists change, and that they're merely people at the end of the day. They wanted more of the same, while Lucas created something for an entirely new generation of fans, actually continuing the legacy rather than regurgitating its past laurels. Them stomping on his creative spark so callously because of that, I'm not surprised he turned bitter, but I can also see it shine through clearly in Ep. 3. It's so weird to watch a modern creative you'd think had made it beyond the "wall" of corporate necessity, get harangued by the public to the point where he sold the rights to one of the largest corpos of all. Hopefully one day we'll know better.

[@TheBoboSamurai]

​@@thirion1850idk, it's kind of a perfect storm situation where no one party is responsible for the whole thing: -Lucas clearly holds some responsibility as the creator and needs to be able to take any kind of feedback on his path to becoming one of the richest creators in history. -Clearly many fans were personally insulted and took their backlash too far. Lucas, and any creator, has a right to make whatever they please. Growing hatred in ourselves is never productive. Ultimately the hate of the fans drove Lucas to sell the rights, bringing about corporate interests that truly only care about money. -However people are not wired to understand that our personal actions act as a massive wave when collected. The directive of the news, the burgeoning technology of communication... All this came together as a weight too heavy for Lucas (and others too! It wasn't just Lucas who suffered) to handle.

[@bscaryanimation482]

People should never forget how paramount Gary Kurtz was to the success to Star Wars. As producer he was the one that bet everything on George and his film. He was also instrumental in reigning in Lucas’s more batshit insane ideas. When he left as producer following Empire there was already a noticeable decline in quality in Return of Jedi (like the Ewoks and reusing the Death Star). Kurtz legitimately made Star Wars what it was to a degree where I’d argue he was the one that gave Star Wars its spark.

[@spookywizard1265]

The bit about jarjar being a dark reflection of Yoda is actually extremely convincing, knowing how george writes

[@spinaltap22]

And the fact that someone spent time animating him mouthing along to someone else speaking...all the force handwaves... That said, IF that was the plan, but then they bailed on it because of the backlash, that's a MONUMENTAL balls-up. Darth Jar Jar would have vindicated so many of the more problematic prequel complains.

[@NickTheCodeMechanic]

If George wants to go ahead and retcon Darth Jar Jar, I'd support him. We all beat him too hard for that, and we got Kathleen "The Force is Female" Kennedy. Jar Jar is better than Acolyte. Yeah I said it. I actually liked him in his final appearance on Clone Wars. He actually was almost competent and seemed to care for the queen, which added some depth to an otherwise silly character. It was still hard to watch, though. Poor Mace.😅

[@spookywizard1265]

@@NickTheCodeMechanic Jarjar is better than a lot of things, not just the acolyte. I'd rather have 100 jarjars than anything that came out after disney bought it, besides maybe andor, if I'm feeling generous.

[@ImTheGuy]

Its like poetry it rhymes

[@blurb9319]

@@spookywizard1265Nah, Andor is legitimately fantastic. It’s a shining gem in a pile of dog shit.

[@jayjam_]

StarWars is like an ex relationship that you need to learn to love for what it represented, not for what it was or has become.

[@Sky_guy0bby]

And for what should have become.

[@georgewkush542]

Soooo, when's frying dory?

[@FrankRizzo333]

bruh

[@JHooligan5612506]

Haven't heard about that in a hot minute

[@huntgbunt]

“Now that’s a name I’ve not heard in a long time.”

[@ryandeane427]

When he gets the ruby playbutton

[@zuppoblitz6627]

Fuck that, when’s the sixth and final round of YTP Tennis with MasterJoj?

[@Musical_parks]

Revenge of the sith is a great movie, can’t convince me otherwise. If we are talking about the extremes of going too far on either side of the spectrum, I must say, I do prefer flawed and uncontrolled creativity as apposed to corporate greed at the expense of said creativity

[@christopherstein2024]

George Lucas made the movies he wanted. He wanted to change things for the prequels.

[@coten]

as a pinball nerd, i recognize Star Wars Episode One as the final pinball table that Bally/Williams/Midway released before the total shutdown of their pinball division. the game can't be blamed on its own - arcade game sales, and pinball machines especially, were doing BAD by the end of the 90s. the game was eventually updated so that completing the in-game tasks to spell "Jar-Jar" specifically awards 19,992,510 points. that represents the date the shutdown was announced: October 25, 1999.

[@NicholasLatipi]

what a tragic lost for humanity.

[@Neotenico]

This is one of the most wildly niche topics I've ever seen someone talk about and I'm impressed by your knowledge of pinball machine history.

[@TheeGlocktopus]

Now they only do gambling machines.

[@Kveldred]

I did not know "pinball nerd" was an extant category

[@christopherstein2024]

@@Kveldred Wait till you hear about the folks watching cars drive in a circle.

[@alexrexaros9837]

The best that came out of Phantom Menace, I think, is the making-of. I find it intrusive and yet so insightful because it doesn't pull any punches. It's not showing only the best sides of the shooting, it's showing every grueling, awful process that led to this catastrophe. There will never ever be a documentary like this one.

[@georgelucas2571]

It’s like watching a train wreck in slow motion

[@JoshJr98]

It’s a miracle that it even came out and whoever was behind it was clearly trying to show the truth and not just make a marketing piece

[@TheDominionOfElites]

@@JoshJr98now i want a making of the making of

[@EresirThe1st]

Phantom Menace is the best Star Wars film

[@Peb02497]

That documentary about Empire of the Sun, the early draft of Disney's Emperors New Groove comes close as its production also was a trainwreck

[@bulb9970]

“His bizarre eccentricities are so obtrusive they become overbearing” That was the fanciest way you could say that he’s annoying

[@Joebaseball-qp2nk]

Its not just fancy, its a concise and easy way of explaining WHY he’s annoying and how that detracts from the scene

[@Stunkos]

That line has extreme wordcount padding energy

[@BasilWald]

If you talk to like old old Star Wars heads (like 45+) they'll often say that episode 6 is where it all went wrong, primarily the Ewoks, the goofier tone compared to 4/5 and how non threatening Palpatine feels. Curious if the gen alpha sequel kids will also have their own "this is where Star Wars went wrong" moment. 😂

[@foguista]

and the worst thing is that you are right

[@MattExzy]

I'm almost 40. The OG Star Wars movies didn't actually come to light for lots of people around my age until the 90s. I think that interest is what drove the prequels, maybe, feeding the hype. Return of The Jedi has a decent movie hiding within it. The final scenes of Vader tempting Luke and Palpatine being destroyed comes to mind, but it's clouded by so much bullshit - so like the prequels, there's this insane variability of 'is it serious', or 'is it random stuff for kids'. Without getting longwinded on it, the only Star Wars movie I truly love is Empire, an opinion that probably dates me. It has the least annoying crap in it, staying focused on a genre and plot. It can appeal to all ages without being slapstick about it.

[@ouchiegiverjr]

As a someone born in the mid 90’s one of the most interesting things is seeing how much the sequel trilogy has made people see that the prequels while riff with issues and horrible writing at times, also has so much passion and because of George has such great world building look at all the things FROM the prequels, now look at the sequels, I promise you one was better for the franchise then the other.

[@adamt8255]

There's a lot of truth in the original post as well as the comment about Star Wars not actually taking off till the 90s. Something almost all this crap over Disney Star Wars misses however is how much of Star Wars's popularity actually comes from the old expanded universe. Personally, I think most of the actual fan base while they hold Lucas's original six films as the unassailable foundation are actually fans on account of "Legends" material or things related to it. Also I regard The Empire Strikes Back as the best film.

[@Trade_Mark]

The oldest person in gen alpha is 14, I think you mean Gen Z. Anyway, I don't have an exact point I have thought that, the problem is that the new creators have no scope for appreciating the depth there is within the lore of Star Wars. "What is the force? How does it work? What are the underlying implications of such a legitimate theology?" None of these questions are being considered in any sense which leads to uninspired and contrived plots and narratives. IMO the concept of Star Wars is infinitely better than the actual movie outputs, and the prequels are ultimately as bad as they are because of how wasted their potential was. That said my favorite Star Wars films is actually Rouge One and Revenge of the Sith, (I'm too young to like the originals, there was never any big reveal and the cinematography is no longer impressive. Not that I have any gripes with them either, their just old to me). I really wish I had directive control over the prequels, I would do a terrific job. I think George would've done well to forgo the black and white representation of good and evil for it and actually fleshed out a rational progression for Anakin to begin to question the benevolence of the Jedi, all founded within the true dichotomy of the Force, which Anakin is meant to embody as the chosen one, or the bringer of balance to the Force. George himself fell flat on that I think; he used cheap means to both, draw Anakin as inherently impressible by the dark side, and ultimately to have succumb to it--All to endure this black and white picture of what is right and wrong. Think about it, for 1000 years the Jedi has been abducting infants to recruit them into their intergalactic Buddhist police force, which culminates into the clone wars 1000 years after the Sith's dissapearence, leaving the majority of the Jedi so dissociated as a result of their lifelong training in rejecting the physical such that they are now completely unprepared for all out war. Additionally the Jedi are unnecessarily powerful compared to everyone else and have gotten far too heavily involved in politics. All these things are components that could paint the Jedi Order as having become outdated in their systemic operations, while still being ethically superior in dogma to what Anakin may choose to do trying to fix it. Anakin's pride and drive to be the fulfillment of the prophecy he was led to believe in could have the reason he ultimately turned against the Jedi Order. I like to think Anakin would've been better, both by himself and when he becomes Darth Vader, if the motive for his abandonment of the order is undeniably heroic.

[@Iffy350]

Fun fact: People on the internet were planning on having Gungan hunting parties on Naboo in Star Wars Galaxies so the devs upped the arsenal to make Gungans difficult to erder

[@mitchellwright5478]

Did that stop the hunting parties?

[@Shorty_Lickens]

that is neither fun nor a fact.

[@mitchellwright5478]

@@Shorty_Lickens And yet true nonetheless, so it is a fact, google it

[@-._Radixerus_.-]

@@mitchellwright5478 Iffy actually mis-spoke. What he meant was that the devs made it more challenging and therfore more fun

[@0rurin]

"erder"?

[@thelineguy123]

He wasn't wrong about the prequels being made for children. Thanks to the prequels and the TV shows, an entire generation looks more fondly on the Clone Wars Clonetroopers than the OT Stormtroopers, because while they both have issues, both trilogies are undeniably creative.

[@kanki9718]

OT stormtroopers never got the same characterization that the clone troopers in the prequels did.

[@speedymx2376]

A lot of the heavy lifting it due to the clone wars animated series, even seen Spanish dubs of it in Mexico when it was airing at the time

[@christopherstein2024]

@@kanki9718 Reason being that the storm troopers are the bad guys that massaker civilians. Nobody was supposed to look at them fondly.

[@christopherstein2024]

@@speedymx2376 All the boys watched TCW in second grade. But for me it didn't age well compared to the movies.

[@illseeyaonthedarksideofthemoon]

All this movies were made for children, just happen that a bunch of adults like them too.

[@pajamapantsjack5874]

How does it feel to watch all my favorite franchises go down in flames ? All I can say is, it feels great.

[@MrsMadam-o1d]

Part 2: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l4LIkq2qjbebf68

[@jacobp249]

The good feeling doesn't come from the decimation of the actual franchise, but in the repeated failure of the people mismanaging that franchise

[@willferrous8677]

"euphoric", you could say

[@MacenW]

You're one of those KZbin commenters KZbin favors

[@Spiderman-wt8hb]

Even if Indy 5 was lesser compared to the originals, i still enjoyed it probably because i felt a semi-positive sense of closure with the series compared to SW having so much content all the time yet so little to say 90% of the time.

[@MichalisG1821]

Star Wars was like an old family member in my youth. Through it I found entertainment, joy, and lifelong lessons. And much like any old family member from our childhood, eventually they pass on, and we're left to cherish the memories and lessons we gained through knowing them in our formative years. Now imagine a necromancer named Disney comes along, digs up that relative, reanimates their corpse and - with a smile on their face - says you should enjoy this instead of being upset.

[@blob22201]

Yeah, I like the prequels, at least they were doing something different.

[@jetsto5612]

@@blob22201RoTS aging like fine wine fr

[@TheObicobiHD]

Truth

[@free_at_last8141]

Watching episode 4 in the theater with my Dad and at home with VHS is a very precious memory.

[@GrandMasterBruh]

The OG trilogy was childhood wonder, thinking they're flawless and figured everything out, the Prequels were adulthood realizing they aren't perfect. The Sequels are seeing that family member violated after the grave.

[@gilles4prezudent650]

Take solace in the fact that even if nothing cool ever gets made again, there's more cool stuff out there already that you've never seen, more than you could ever see in one lifetime.

[@EarsoftheWolf]

There's plenty of cool stuff being made, just not by trillion dollar media companies

[@samt3412]

And, quite frankly, there's still cool stuff coming out today. You just have to look for it.

[@MustraOrdo]

I feel like I haven't even watched/played about 95% of all the tv series, movies, and video games that were made. And I'm about 30. The point I'm trying to make here is that we shouldn't latch on to hate on one piece of media when there are so much to enjoy seeing/rewatching/playing/replaying.

[@elvinereve663]

SAIKOU NO COOOL

[@Cableguy15]

This is what I tell people who feel like the video game industry has left them behind. There are hundreds and potentially thousands of good games that they can go back to from a better time.

[@WilJordan]

At 39:57, "If you want to create a truly memorable experience, you gotta roll the dice. Failures are bound to happen, every great artist runs into them eventually. But you can never make great art if you refuse to try anything different." A fantastic takeaway for any entertainment exec watching.

[@huskenator857]

This quote summarizes the modern entertainment industry so well

[@potato11teen]

Andor was that dice roll and it's the best 21st century piece of Star Wars media created (that I've seen)

[@hehexd5317]

or just make another few sequels and rake in the billions anyway.

[@avialexander]

Not just good advice for movie execs. It applies to everyday life too. Are you taking risks for the things you want?

[@WilJordan]

@@hehexd5317 I actually laughed at your comment, but I think this mentality has been harmful to some entertainment companies. The brand rot of companies like Disney, Lucasfilm and Marvel (in recent years) from their sequel "money grabs" can hurt them in the long run.

[@slipperysteve2513]

I always found it very ironic that Jar Jar was always called a racist stereotype, yet not a word is mentioned about the clearly imperial Japanese aliens the Jedi met within the first 30 seconds of the film. The brutally heavy accents, wardrobe and demeanor is the most stereotype Japanese character I’ve ever seen.

[@angel_of_rust]

so it hasn't been that much different back then, huh

[@rokkraljkolesa9317]

I was today years old when I realized this

[@mannhouse8014]

Also the greedy salesman with a giant nose and Israeli accent

[@eskaflorence5659]

Aahhkchewally it was meant to be a Thai accent, but close enough

[@AndrewRyan-zv7zb]

Because racism only matters when it happens to a certain shade of people

[@Fonky_Fesh]

I'll never forget the hype surrounding darth maul until everyone saw his 10 words and 4 minutes of screen time

[@slaviclad9705]

Shouldnt have hyped him up, didnt you

[@ThwipThwipBoom]

Should've given most of Jar Jar's screen time to Maul honestly. But oh well, at least The Clone Wars animated show did Maul justice.

[@mantisr818]

He had one of the best sword fights in cinema history, it was enough to make him iconic

[@Fonky_Fesh]

@@mantisr818 Yes indeed, it was the most bombastic, choreographed, noisy, and utterly pointless and meaningless fights of it’s time

[@Fonky_Fesh]

@@slaviclad9705 i expected a decent villain, even with being 9 and all

[@Blyegh]

1:03 “The Downward Spiral-“ *_HE SAID THE THING! EMPLEMON SAID THE THING!_*

[@caboose22320]

He's got me with his dirty little nostalgia factor talons whenever I hear a pac-man world 2 sound track. That game was my childhood

[@iwannaplayssbb6665]

Have you ever heard the Tragedy of EmpLemon the green? I thought not. It's not a story youtube Poopers would tell you. It's a YTP legend. EmpLemon was a talented KZbin Pooper, so funny and so wise he could mix copyrighted material to create comedy... He had such a knowledge of video mixing that he could keep his subscribers entertained. KZbin pooping is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be.... unnatural. He became so funny... the only thing he was afraid of was losing his fame, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, other KZbin poopers grew jealous of him and was ostracized from all YTP forums and discussions....ironic he could make others happy, but not himself

[@thecianinator]

Now first of all, in a galaxy far far away

[@S__a_m_u_r_a_i]

Is there a way to master this power?

[@DepravedCoTApologist]

This is a masterpiece

[@blacklynx7720]

@@S__a_m_u_r_a_i Not as a YouChewer.

[@fortynights1513]

@@blacklynx7720He described YouChew as a community of early YTP creators who were averse to change.

[@hiddenleif6854]

that juxtaposition of Luke and Vader crossing sabers against the backdrop of cloud city with Kylo and Rey crossing sabers in ... some water ... really hammers it home.

[@JonathanQShrimpling]

Im so glad Ahmed Best got the vindication he deserved

[@anonymous-hz2un]

He later built his entire career around playing victim and begging for pity.

[@JonathanQShrimpling]

@@anonymous-hz2un hell yeah dude good for him

[@JNReditz]

@@JonathanQShrimplingFr what a guy

[@Arkantos117]

@@anonymous-hz2un Hey it's a living.

[@TheRealRusDaddy]

At the Dublin Texas bottling company, og dr pepper factory thats still running and uses the original recipe and just calls it black cherry, had a full sized jar jar statue that they managed to cram one of their shirts onto and and hes holding some of their pops, also be careful the outside is swarmed with bees even in the texas desert heat because you know all that sugar

[@ma-moomoo]

what

[@user-vi4xy1jw7e]

Okay

[@robt.v.8688]

Those bees are fine. They won't bother you.

[@TheRealRusDaddy]

@@robt.v.8688 yeah their fine just dont try to drink anything with sugar while outside lol

[@huntgbunt]

“Meesa rule over the Galaxy!”

[@nagasako7]

*Darth Jar Jar says before stomping and crushing head of last Jedi*

[@randomguy7891]

Yousa in big doo doo

[@DlcEnergy]

"I actually speak in a posh English villainous voice, the childish goofy voice was all apart of my ruse, and yousa fells for it!"

[@soejrd24978]

36:06, not the case. When the news was released, everyone around me was terrified of turning Star Wars into a kids cartoon. I remember it vividly

[@Ninewave1]

I saw Star Wars The Phantom Menace on Opening Day May 19th 1999 and it was my birthday. My mom dropped me off to the theater where it was packed and possibly sold out. For some lucky reason I bought a ticket and the ticket seller told my mom how lucky I was to get this. On top of this my dad saw Star Wars on opening day in 1977 and will not shut up about it. So yeah Star Wars falling really hurts me.

[@Willrocs]

So when did your dad leave 😂😂😂😂

[@gplastic]

@@WillrocsDude what

[@knight1706]

⁠@@WillrocsWhen did yours?

[@GameyRaccoon]

Hey we share a birthday! Revenge of the Sith also came out on May 19th, and on the exact day I was born too. (May 19 2005)

[@teddyfurstman1997]

Same. Watched the last movie of the recent trilogy in a theater years ago and was confused about why it failed so hard? It Makes me miss George and Jar Jar even more.

[@therealthirst8099]

At the very least, the Prequel movies had a coherent vision and genuine passion behind them. Despite all it's flaws you can see what Lucas was going for, the kind of story he wanted to tell, the messages he wanted to imbue in them. There was still enough of the Star Wars soul there to keep fans on-board despite the fallout. The Disney films on the other hand are soulless, schizophrenic, and are entirely a cynical product made to cash in on the goodwill the franchise once carried. Managed by incompetant people who had no real vision, no new ideas, and just wanted to make their own tepid retread of the originals without any clue as to why the originals are loved so much.

[@SpacklerStudios]

I cannot agree more on that. Even when I was a kid, I never had a problem with the prequels. They were flawed, yes, but I and even my family enjoyed them. The same can't be said about the sequels though. When I finished watching The Last Jedi with my father, the first thing he said was "they ruined it." We don't even have a copy of Rise of Skywalker, a film he still has not seen. Sadly, I saw it with a friend in the theater, and I walked away from it feeling like I got scammed.

[@GatsbyCioffi]

I've always said that the prequels are bad Star Wars movies, but they ARE Star Wars movies. Whatever the essence of a Star Wars movie is, on a fundamental or philosophical level, the sequels don't have it.

[@wailmerpail]

The clone wars TV show fixed everything I felt was missing from the prequels and made the prequel trilogy my fav part of the franchise

[@mix3k818]

Yup. That's why I honestly respect The Last Jedi in spite of its faults - Ryan Johnson at least tried to take Star Wars in a more interesting direction. JJ Abrams meanwhile spent double the effort trying to retcon everything and make Rise of Skywalker into a clone of Return of the Jedi.

[@mix3k818]

@@8Kazuja8 You're not forced to like the film of course. I'll just say that in hindsight the film doesn't feel quite as subversive as people say. Most core arcs are still fundamentally the same as they were back in the prequels and the original trilogy.

[@JewishMemeMan]

It’s absolutely insane to me how we’ve reached a point where we look back fondly on Jar Jar. God I absolutely hate this current state of things where corporate suits who are clinically soulless have absolute control over every single aspect of these IPs and relegate nepotism hires or cookie cutter scripts to them and then act shocked when people see these subpar works and reject them, and then proceed to blame the fans for not liking it.

[@skivvy3565]

You’re gonna make me cry, stop it

[@tehesprite502]

I never "reached a point", I just liked the guy from the start.

[@TheTundraTerror]

Who the hell is "we"?

[@Guy-cb1oh]

Jar Jar is a Giga Chad.

[@TriforceWisdom64]

Many of "we" are people who saw the prequels as little kids, played with the toys and the video games, read some of the books, watched the cartoons, and are now adults looking back on all of that fondly. I don't think there was a significant shift in individual people from hating the prequels to loving them, because most of those people are in their 40s and 50s and don't really think about the prequels at all anymore, just the OT.

[@jakejackson8234]

I really wish he would have let his franchise be independent. They didnt need to be under the wing of disney. Let studios like obsidian and larian make their games and Lucasfilm would make their own movies. Everyone is happier and makes a lot of money

[@BotSupportIronValiant]

"We like to refer to these people as... 'lucky.'"BRO I'm fucking DEAD what a hard line

[@Verminator4]

So glad you mentioned the Darth Jar Jar theory, probably my favourite unofficial fan theory ever. It wouldn't even be entirely without precedent, it closely mirrors the concept of a character known as the Mule who appears in Isaac Asimov's Foundation series.

[@DocOmally101]

This 100%. I'm so disappointed that wasn't the direction they went

[@spencerarthur920]

@@DocOmally101 They had whole scenes done in the later films such as him giving the speech to convince everyone to give power to Palpatine and many others like how he acts when the heroes are not around. Essentially overlap Jar Jar with count Dooku (who literally showed up from no where without any character development) and you have a hint of what it would have been like. Also he was going to fight Yoda at the end to bring it full circle with the two silly creatures of good and evil fighting each other.

[@DocOmally101]

@@spencerarthur920 I always considered Lucas a coward for not following up with the plot, but I wonder if they studios forced his hand?

[@QKuKier]

darth jar jar is canon to me, i dont give a fuck what anyone else thinks about this, it's too good to dismiss

[@spencerarthur920]

@@DocOmally101 Changing the script due to everyone hating the character is not cowardice. They obviously did the math and just scrapped it, but the plot doesn't make a tone of sense without the reveal.

[@graye2799]

The prequels had its many many issues, but one thing can be said, and thats the prequels didn't kill Star Wars. The story had its issues, but the world building, lore, environments, and more resulted in the IP still thriving, especially in the EU content until Disney came along. The story itself was also more a fault of execution rather than idea. The main plot is something that makes sense and if George had someone to smoothout the issues and dialouge, it could have worked much better. But even still, there is still a spark of something great there in the story we got. Its still something that had thought and passion put into it.

[@rodrigoperalta822]

Everybody loves the clones and the clone war era thanks to what those movies let us see. No one I've spoken too has said anything similar about the first order or the resistance. Why would I like them when there's already the empire and the rebels there with way better visuals and story

[@Rct3master44]

Don't know much about Star Wars. Never a fan but I'd love to change that tbh. But I was born in the early 2000s so the prequal movies were my Star Wars growing up. I'm much more familiar with Anakin than Luke and watched some of the Clone Wars TV show which was good from what I remember.

[@greggoat6570]

Star Wars isn’t dead, the only people who think that are angry men who are mad that a piece of media does not inspire the identical emotion it did in them at age four.

[@whitewall2253]

​@@greggoat6570 depends on what you mean by dead really. Stories can only really "die" when they are forgotten IMO so star wars isn't "dead." It's place in pop culture has changed though.

[@Ziobbe]

The world of the prequels is in my opinion what made Star Wars a giant that lasted until now. The prequel's world had so much, so many places and stories and peoples. The movies weren't executed well, but the world the movies existed in could support dozens of other shows, and that's basically exactly what happened. I don't think the original trilogy's world, good though it was, could have supported all the other media that kept Star Wars big during the movie drought, and even today. The original world wasn't big enough for all this, and the sequel's world isn't interesting enough for all this, but the prequel's world still lives on in its own way.

[@jimhoxworth8655]

Im pissed that this video hasn't cracked a million yet. One of your best docs yet Emp. The downward diary was also great. Made me replay lego starwars after hearing you talk about it. Keep that chin up green man, a slam dunk is just around the corner.

[@d00gz_]

Probably because people are so exhausted of Star Wars that they’re exhausted of discourse regarding it too. Hoping for a million soon.

[@yalikegames1319]

I'm currently in film school for writing. At this exact moment I'm doing my TV spec assignment on The Mandalorian (a TV spec is a filler episode of a series that shows you can write for a specific show/genre) and the key part of my episode is the return of Jar Jar. Kinda hate this assignment. Stuck on ideas, and trying to make it interesting. I am one of the kids who is now in their twenties who grew up with the prequels, and I want to deliever justice to the character. This video definitely gave me a creative energy boost for tackling my spec, and I just wanted to say thanks! Keep up the great work, Emp!

[@seasonsaturn5032]

If I may ask, what film school (or type of film school) are you in? The reason I ask is because I've actually wanted to get into screenwriting for a while, whether through school or not, and what you described sounds right up my alley.

[@Ruylopez778]

I recommend the channel Writing for Screens. Much more useful than this one sided video.

[@konignickerchen7265]

Emplemon is a real one for using the "I'm Han Solo" theme.

[@Mr_Wallet]

I was confused by the choice of music and I can't believe I didn't make that connection

[@BrochachoTheBro]

OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD (i dont believe in skull shapes)

[@lupemacintosh9696]

I heard the music fade in and was fully expecting to be jump scared by the dance. Horror movie levels of tension for the last few minutes of the video

[@LucasDiblasio]

Pretty fitting music when talking about the downfall of Star Wars.

[@geothepoly]

I think what happened to Star Wars can be applied to many other franchises: Act 1: The "classic" era: The early installments of the franchise bring massive success and loyal fans Act 2: The "weird" era: New installment(s) to the franchise take risks that alienate much of the existing fanbase. The creators still have a clear vision for the franchise, but it's a vision that many don't like. In addition, these new installments might be rushed or incompetently made. Act 3: The "corporate slop" era: Due to the heavy criticism the installments in the previous era recieved, the people making the next installment overcorrect themselves and for some reason become allergic to all creativity. In many cases, this results in something that is both incompetently made and visionless. As a result of how bad the installments of this era are, it leads people to appreciate the risks taken in the "weird" era.

[@Imperials3nate]

And maybe then the Epilogue: "the Fanon era", where the masses of dissapointed fans being creating their own experimental/passionate franchise works (IE: rewrites) to counter the corporateness, and keep our passion alive.

[@DynastyZero1]

Perfectly describes the Sonic series.

[@DrewPicklesTheDark]

World of Warcraft's Classic Era: Vanilla, Burning Crusade, Wrath Weird Era: Cataclysm, Pandaria, Warlords Corporate Slop: Battle for Azeroth, Shadowlands, Dragonflight Legion was an outlier.

[@geothepoly]

​​​@@DynastyZero1yeah I definitely had Sonic in mind, as well as Pokemon (Black and White were what I'd call the "weird" era even though I don't consider them bad games by any means, in fact I'd consider them some of the best, but the backlash of making the regional dex postgame-only definitely made Gamefreak allergic to creativity in future games)

[@succulent1771]

This sounds like the Indiana Jones franchise, funny that George Lucas was also involved in that as well

[@PsRohrbaugh]

I hope somehow George Lucas sees this.

[@bintube5269]

I hope someone asks him about Darth Jar Jar.

[@El-Bandito]

I truly hope he does. George Lucas is a legend, and the Disney movies are a disgrace.

[@merucrypoison296]

50 dollars is crazy

[@yachtman87]

-$50

[@PsRohrbaugh]

Maybe to you guys. I routinely hit KZbin's $500 daily limit for superchats / super thanks. Supporting creators is important.

[@Lobotomistmankyeh]

"it would be the equivalent of putting a minion in Lord of the Rings" not even as a JOKE, lemon. not even as a JOKE.

[@iisaacsll]

42:24 "it hurts my soul to see whats become of it. the truth is i dont really consider myself a star wars fan anymore. at this point there is really nothing left to love" this connected with me way more than i expected it to. amazing videos as always

[@NorthernWindNut]

1. Sometimes art needs to be protected from its own creator, no matter how great 2. The extreme reaction to Jar-Jar did more damage than Jar-Jar himself

[@M_reapr]

The problem is the all encompassing sequel. This is a modern phenomenon. There is an attempt to keep stories from dying and I think this has to do with our fear of death and our reluctance to face it.

[@christianloper9483]

Absolutely not. It was his creation, and his vision. Who are we to tell him what he can and can't do?

[@exeortegarubio]

​@@christianloper9483 Part of the success of the original trilogy, especially Empire Strikes Back, has to do with Lucas having the will to listen to others. A New Hope would've been a disaster had he not heed Steven Spielberg's and Brian De Palma's criticism.

[@GeneralJackRipper]

1. Correct. 2. Wrong.

[@GeneralJackRipper]

@@exeortegarubio Empire Strikes back was directed by Irvin Kershner. Lucas reportedly didn't like how dark he made the film, but couldn't do anything about it because Kershner didn't give him any extra materiel to change the movie. Possibly the reason he shoehorned the Ewoks into the next film instead of Wookies as it was supposed to be. He wanted to lighten the tone.

[@ramonmujica3193]

The problem with the prequels wasn't that they had too much Jar Jar, it's that they didn't have enough. There should have been more clues Jar Jar was evil in the first movie. Make his allegiance to the good guys somewhat ambiguous.

[@gamefreak23788]

I don't think Lucas himself intended for Jar Jar to be evil.

[@GeneralJackRipper]

That's just silly.

[@drifter402]

That's assuming that was real and it probably wasn't

[@ben10pop]

Feels good to see Ahmed Best finally getting some respect and coming out on top after all the relentless abuse, though I think something that could have been mentioned alongside that would be how that film damaged the life of Jake Lloyd as well. Poor guy was only a child and was so scolded and bullied it fucked him up irreparably. Looking at his wikipedia page is genuinely quite upsetting

[@donutonahole]

Going full circle from YTPs, essays, and now the source material from your pfp. This is truly glorious!

[@MagpieDynamics]

That's Admiral Akbar, not Jar Jar.

[@Midcall]

@@MagpieDynamics "source material" Read.

[@pookicletourmenteur7987]

Lucas: "It's gonna be great" Spielberg : "It's gonna be great" Lucas: "It's gonna be great" Spielberg : "It's gonna be great"

[@georgelucas2571]

It was not great

[@barryallen3225]

@@pookicletourmenteur7987 Famous last words

[@GeneralJackRipper]

If only they knew how bad things were going to get.

[@christopherstein2024]

Most people liked it. This dude 16:22 was one of two people they found who didn't like it out of 19 people.

[@Maina980]

44:00 when is Emplemon gonna go to a studio and get them to give him a million dollars to make a high budget production?

[@randomname9723]

I think it's also interesting to look at all the stories that have come out of the prequels and compare that to the sequels. The prequels, for their faults, expanded the universe of Star Wars greatly, while everything in the sequels does nothing but narrow the scope. I guess aside from the 'mystery boxes' that just get abandoned ie. "Rey I have to tell you something" and "A good question for another time".

[@CocoHutzpah]

I feel kind of ashamed for thinking the whole knights of Ren thing was going to be a cool thing that persisted over the movies. Maybe I learned something from that?

[@EnterTheSoundscape]

I like the expanded lore, but the prequel movies still absolutely suck. Terrible writing, acting, and CGI from start to finish.

[@alexandralamberton5615]

​@@CocoHutzpah the parts of the sequels where you can tell one of the writers had a good idea, but got shut down in favor of bland but acceptable plot points

[@fortynights1513]

What stories are you comparing specifically out of curiosity?

[@DTheAustralian]

I feel that has more to do with the fact that Lucasfilm refuses to expand on the world of the sequels. They COULD, but they won't, and everyone is bizarrely happy about that for some reason.

[@UnderTheSkin13]

For anyone struggling with watching what you "loved" become what it is today, some time ago I learned more or less how to deal with it. I'll use the word "watch" as a stand in for listen, read, play , etc. As a person, as an autonomous human being, you have the power to choose. Not just what you watch, but what sticks with you after watching it. If something comes out that is contradicting to canon, or ruins your favourite character, or has a dumb twist at the end, just don't care about it. That's all you gotta do. Don't care about it. Ignore it. The corporation can't push their slop onto you if you ignore them. Just choose what you love and stick with it. If Disney wants to destroy something, just don't look. You'll always have what you loved. Even if they don't make any new stuff that's any good, stick with the good stuff, the stuff that makes you happy. Yeah it's sad you won't get "more" of what you love, but it's enough. At least, it never got bad.

[@Vespyr_]

I'll still love the OT, I've learned to embrace the Prequels and their extended stories, like Clone Wars, and because of that love have been able to enjoy Rogue One/Andor as it respects the OT far too well to ignore. I even enjoyed Solo a bit. I enjoy Star Wars quite a bit, and nothing Disney does can take that away. The only thing that hurts that love, is seeing it being labeled as a nonexistent or without value simply because I don't accept what it has become. That our love is less for it. The constant attacks on the fans, is exhausting.

[@GrandMasterBruh]

That’s gets a little tough after the franchise peaked 40 years ago 💀

[@arempy5836]

I'm not a big Star Wars guy and Star Wars nerds generally annoy me but I'll give them this: They're situation is a little different. George Lucas made it incredibly hard to watch the original versions of the Original Trilogy so he kinda did take away what people loved (primarily so his wife didn't get any royalties from the films as she was the original editor, but that's another story)

[@RilfDanielson]

@@GrandMasterBruh Bruh let me tell you a hurtful truth bomb. Eventually everything you know and love will have "peaked 40 years ago". That's not bad. If something has to be new and relevant for you to gain insight and knowledge or entertainment out of it, you are failing life.

[@GrandMasterBruh]

@@RilfDanielson I’m not a dumbass who *needs* new shit, I’m saying it’d be nice to have new shit that’s actually good. especially when billions are being wasted on shows like Acolyte & Kenobi lol

[@neongamer3137]

Thank you for not ending this video on a downer and instead ending this video in an up beat way

[@XPStartupSound]

LOL I love that he used riding solo at the end, I’m sure a little nod to that kinect Xbox dance game with the Han Solo version of the song.

[@kevinhall3842]

“A minion in the lord of the rings” is a quote I never thought I’d ever hear

[@jimmyspingus8895]

It's a perfect descriptor.

[@gabenorman747]

Minion maxxing

[@DiamondKingStudios]

The next people to make _Lord of the Rings_ films will do something much similar, and I will dread the day when they do. I think we need another “New Hollywood” era, though in our current social and political environment it does not seem realistically feasible to me.

[@Superchunk-k2h]

@@DiamondKingStudios It's not possible for movies anymore, but it is for game development.

[@christopherstein2024]

Imagine if they put some silly dudes in LOTR who like, get their face covered in ash like a cartoon from launching fire works or tells random strangers completely sensitive information. That would be so terrible.

[@TFSthegreat]

The second-ever piece of star wars media released was the Christmas special. George was always a businessman

[@DraphEnjoyer]

The Christmas Special is also full of weird shit that only George could think up and only he could understand Its bad but its the opposite of slop

[@graon4880]

When I was a kid my dad randomly put in on one Christmas.

[@supadead]

Did you ever watch the robot chicken skit with George Lucas playing himself? He outright said he had no direct involvement and hated it. It’s actually really funny haha

[@Florkl]

Star Wars is literally a giant commercial Lucas made to sell toys to kids. I won’t say that was his only motivation- there’s clearly artistic joy in the production- but the financial deals and results don’t lie.

[@supadead]

@@Florkl Can you back up your claim with hard facts?

[@GrandVizierPestage]

16:07 I love your content Emp but Irvin Kershner and the RotJ director have both gone on record stating that even tho George was technically a producer in charge of story, he would still overseer directing a lot of times. Lucas assuming a producer role was less about being unable to direct and far more to delegate and manage the bureaucracy of making a movie. This especially rings true when you know Lucas once visited a hospital for stress induced pains when making a New Hope as discussed in the documentary The Making of an Empire (which is on Disney+).

[@supadead]

This video is so poorly researched, it’s kind of baffling. I’m honestly disappointed in Emp.

[@USSMariner]

​@@supadeadpar for the course with Star Wars fans. Ironic given that Lucas is one of the few directors left who actually studied the fucking history of his field.

[@fidmid]

​@@supadead Wait, you guys are nitpicking, and you, instead of being happy that it got corrected, claim that it was poorly researched and are now disappointed, while not even giving timestamps and examples to prove your point? Checks out, hope you have a good day...

[@TheandY408]

I assume he knows that

[@CascadianRanger]

​@supadead ok cool, I'm not the only one that noticed. Framing the Acolytes score at the very start already makes this video seem in bad faith, as a huge reason for that lower than normal score was a massive review bombing campaign made by... parts of the fandom. And I mean rating the series a 1/10 before episode 1 dropped. It was so dumb, they had bots target anything with the words acolyte. So suddenly, a movie called Acolyte from 08 was getting review bombed from bots thinking it was star wars acolyte.

[@proslammeryt5624]

Im lemon starved. The sweet jazz. The sultry voice. The chance the delve deep into new yet enchanting topic.

[@freshmaggot]

You perfectly spelled out exactly what I’ve realized I like about the prequels and George Lucas. Above all it is the creative work of one artist’s genuine vision. The prequel films may not be that well crafted but the world George created is. No one else could’ve made it.

[@WobblesandBean]

I disagree. Lucas was not the reason Star Wars was good. In fact, if he'd had his way, the original films would have been absolutely awful. People with much better ideas were able to challenge his terrible ones, and the result was lightning in a bottle. All of the most hated aspects of the Star Wars films were 100% Lucas, like the ewoks. He only cared about selling toys, which is the exact same reason why he made JarJar so prominent. And I still don't think the prequels have aged well. The dialogue is absolutely atrocious, and the things we should have gotten more development on, like Darth Maul, got none, and vice versa. And let's not forget the highly offensive ethnic stereotypes and minstrelsy.

[@freshmaggot]

@@WobblesandBean Never claimed his vision was perfect. But I overall appreciate his idea for his world (no matter how stupid some of it may be) over Disney’s “ideas” or rather lack-thereof

[@awkwardcultism]

Although I appreciate many aspects of Star Wars myself, I think you're overselling the uniqueness of the series. I read a lot of science fiction (Much of it older than Star Wars) and there are many, many great creative people out there who have invented amazing science fiction settings. I read this comment after pausing Mugen no Frontier, an obscure Nintendo DS game set in a civilization where futuristic androids crash landed their spaceships onto a planet of cowboys and developed into a peaceful syncretic society. The protagonist is a cowboy spaceship captain with a gynoid fuckbuddy who rescues the princess of another ninja-youkai-themed planet. This game is roughly the fortieth entry in a ~50 game long series that started in 1991. There's piles and piles of crazy and interesting and unique and fun sci-fi settings. Throw a brick in a bookstore and you'll knock over a stack of them. Star Wars is just one of them.

[@freshmaggot]

@@awkwardcultism I don’t think I can oversell that I like something

[@drifter402]

​@@WobblesandBeanThis is rubbish and I used to believe it. It's nonsense made up on the internet to explain the prequels being bad. Yea it was Lucas. Everybody who worked on those films will say that

[@Mat-tg4fk]

Clone wars showed that JarJar's best role in star wars adventures is being the guy that fumbles his way into not getting caught first, and using his physical strength and speed to save his friends. If Lucas wasnt...Lucas, the idea of a hometown idiot helping these murder scholars not get killed and thinking in ways they never will is perfectly within what feels like star wars.

[@deVryz]

EmpLemons sardonic tone and chill vibe perfectly encapsulates the emotional load nostalgia hoists on my synapses.

[@skellyartzidations4524]

Ive been watching your videos since The Uncredibles first came out, and even stuck around after frying nemo. Thank you for continuing to make great videos.

[@z-beeblebrox]

"If you had told someone at the end of the 20th Century that Star Wars would be totally irrelevant in pop culture within 20 years, they would've found the idea inconceivable." I don't know, I would've found it pretty believable. These would be the same people (me included) who grew up with Star Wars ALREADY irrelevant in the late 80s/early 90s. It was ancient history. Only the nerdiest of nerds were reading Timothy Zahn or playing Dark Forces on their parents' computer. Tell THOSE people Star Wars would lose relevance and we say "DUH! Once the prequels are over, that's it buddy, what did you *think* was gonna happen? We're lucky to even be getting this!!"

[@cara-seyun]

Didn’t Toy Story 2 (1999) have a whole Star Wars side plot? It couldn’t have been that irrelevant

[@z-beeblebrox]

@@cara-seyun Hate to break this to ya in case you've been relying on it to feel young, but 1999 was *not* in fact "the early 90s". In fact it's as far removed from the early 90s as it's possible for a year in the 90s to be. btw that's also the year The Phantom Menace came out.

[@cara-seyun]

@@z-beeblebrox … I was thinking it came out about 20 years ago, early-mid 2000’s RIP

[@idavid8391]

I absolutely *love* Andor--what I'm still not sure about is if that's because it DOESN'T feel like Star Wars or because it feels EXACTLY like Star Wars.

[@MacenW]

I couldn't care less about any Star Wars tv series besides clone wars and maybe Mando. It sucks to see what happened to Star wars

[@christopherstein2024]

@@MacenW Staning TCW is so dumb is if you want to complain about how mcuh they have changed Star Wars. - They completely rewrote the story by wedging a new protagonist in the center of the plot and making Anakin a Master. - "Somehow Maul has returned" - They also rewrote Order 66 and tried to turn the Jedi into as*holes. People will just say it's better because they grew up with it. Andor is much better.

[@emmettbrown3463]

@@MacenW you really should give andor a shot

[@insane_troll]

Your description of the sequel trilogy at 6:35 is absolutely brilliant. The best I've ever heard.

[@thelargeicestorm7955]

When i first saw jar jar as a 10 year old i enjoyed his silly antics and he became one of my favourite characters

[@TheKNIGHTELFMOHAWK]

lol same but I was like 5

[@georgelucas2571]

I mean yeah. Because you were 10 .

[@herebedragon]

@@georgelucas2571 ...I mean, these are movies for ten year olds though

[@isthatharrasment]

​@herebedragon Wait. You mean space wizards isn't meant for adults?

[@ggggg77273]

@@herebedragon So why are 40 year old men treating it like a religion? Why people pretending there is any substance in this popcorn blockbuster schlock? Not that popcorn blockbuster schlock is a bad thing, either.

[@theangrysuchomimus5163]

"Have you ever heard the tragic tale of Darth Lucas?"

[@logicerrormusic]

"With the best intentions? Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions."

[@Volcanus670]

You can say whatever about jar jar (and most of the time rightfully so) but the actor getting threatened for that role to the point where he very nearly took his life is fucking gross and I wish anyone who took part in that witchhunt the worst

[@theanonymspysandwich]

How'd they even do it? They didn't even have twitter

[@Volcanus670]

@theanonymspysandwich they mention it in the video but his phone number got leaked leading to him getting spammed with calls

[@marinthecreator]

⁠@@theanonymspysandwich It wasn’t the dark ages you could still harass people in many ways before social media.

[@SaltyFrosticles]

I'm glad Hayden and Ahmed are embraced by the fans now. The personal hate they received had to have been awful to deal with.

[@IOUaUsername]

My parents were teenagers when the original trilogy came out and I was a kid when the prequels came out. That was the whole plan. Jar Jar was the key to "all of this", where "all of this" was "introducing a new generation at toy-buying-age to the Star Wars franchise". Every single Disney movie has a funny character to keep kids engaged, like Timon and Pumbaa, or Eddie Murphy as that dragon in Mulan, or Robin Williams as the genie. George Lucas was trying to copy this trope to make Star Wars resonate with kids. Where Lucas dropped the ball was by not hiring a well known comedian for the role and allowing him to improvise lines like all of the Disney comic relief characters. The idea of Jar Jar was not where the franchise got destroyed, but the execution was. There was already comic relief in Star Wars. C3PO and R2D2 were the classic odd couple and the Ewoks brought plenty of slapstick to the table.

[@shotgunsam23]

Everyone may hate on Jar Jar but his character brings me back to my childhood. Whenever his character is brought up I can’t help but smile.

[@eb3i]

This guy can make me interested in something I never cared about

[@dragonflame2273]

On the gang I tell everybody I know that

[@clunkster]

Fr I’ve never watched a single Star Wars film in its entirety, but I know damn well I’m still watching this 44 minute video about it

[@samt3412]

Ironic to comment that here, since this is a topic KZbin loves to talk about

[@jaimedanielhernandezrios5398]

star wars?

[@eb3i]

@@jaimedanielhernandezrios5398 kind of, but mostly in general

[@theactualTVB]

“It’s so dense every single image has so many things going on”

[@kanojo1969]

Seems likely that the only reason the original trilogy doesn't have a jar-jar disaster is that the tech just didn't exist yet. You get the impression George had been storing this abominable character in his head for many years. The fact he more or less banished JJ in the following films is admirable, it must have really hurt to discover everyone hated it.

[@willyomnom8400]

Dear god, I need another EmpLemon video in my life Thanks

[@victoryvillain1471]

OG fans know it was the Ewok that walked so Jar Jar could run.... the franchise into the ground. Lucas wanted the franchise to appeal to kids, the cute aspects of C3PO and R2D2 could also be argued to be the start of all this.

[@cloudmaster182]

Or.. star wars was just always meant to be like this and the first 2 were lightning in a bottle

[@thegamingprozone1941]

Star Wars is made for kids

[@ordepxliior42th46]

Incredible that I hate all three comments here. Ewoks are awesome (I really don't get the hate), the original trilogy wasn't a fluke and it wasn't made entirely for "kids" (not that it is a bad thing, like many think it is).

[@cloudmaster182]

@ordepxliior42th46 I don't think being made for kids is a bad thing. Bur I like star wars at this point mostly bc it appeals to that 7 year old in me that just wanted more after revenge ofnthe Sith came out. Im not saying the OT was bad or anything. But people build it up to be something it never was in my opinion. Star wars in general tbh. Of I want something more "mature" or "gritty" or thought provoking or whatever u want to quantify it as, I'll go to legends novels, or just something else entirely besides star wars before i put on the original trilogy. Empire can kiiiinda scratch that itch sometimes bc i do love star wars so much. but u get the idea

[@TeamSprocket]

​@thegamingprozone1941 that's a retcon to justify liking the prequels, you're wrong

[@xnappy4564]

When I was a kid I actually liked jar jar. Hearing about the Darth jar jar theory for the first time through this makes me think of all the cool directions he could have gone had he not got so much hate.

[@EgoChip]

The direction he went was the only direction he could have gone. He was the patsy. He was manipulated and taken advantage of.

[@YesThisIsCrass]

​@EgoChip or he just acted that way to manipulate others.

[@EgoChip]

@@YesThisIsCrass Like our politicians do.

[@lasercraft32]

As much as I love the Darth Jar Jar theory... I have a sneaking suspicion that it wouldn't actually happen. Because lets be real here, if George _planned_ for Darth Jar Jar to be a thing, he would have mentioned it in one of his many interviews, especially given Jar Jar's failure to impress audiences. If George could have shifted the hate by revealing his plans for Darth Jar Jar, he would have done it by now. So if he hadn't gotten so much hate, he probably would have gotten even more annoying over time (kinda like the Minions), and people would grown to hate Jar Jar either way, for better or for worse.

[@GeneralJackRipper]

Oh do shut up. Fan theories are just theories. None of that was real.

[@drunkensurfer3102]

Jar Jar Binks was my favourite character in Star Wars. I even had a frisbee with his face on it.

[@pinksnake8001]

I love him.

[@theninjaofmusic]

He is still my favorite character in star wars. I can remember going to see the Phantom menace at 4 years old and my brothers and I quoted him until the clone wars came out. And then we continued to quote him 😊

[@grottake]

me too

[@MultiPetercool]

Meesa like dis!

[@TheGreatDanish]

I hate the idea that George was purely in it for the money. He was always a passionate creative, but he was also keen on money making ideas. The two sometimes combine well, but in this case, a combination of ego, enabling, and that same passionate enthusiasm failed him when it mingled with that money sense. At the end of the day though, the movies were always just ok. I was never a huge fan of the original trilogy, let alone the prequels. They were solid blockbusters with pretty passable story telling, but the world is what mattered. Its why the 3rd party books and games were where the core of the starwars fandom really laid. So often, when you really get into the weeds and talk shop with starwars nerds, you'll find they have a corner of the expanded universe that they love more than the movies. George made a fantastic world. And honestly, I love him for it.

[@roarinfireball]

I could make an argument that there were always problems with Star Wars. There were plenty of awkward moments in the beginning. But there were enough good moments in the original Trilogy to out weigh what bad.

[@maxsrama336]

You are so right, to add on if you don't mind, the original has so many "corny" moments like the prequels, but the FIGHTS and thick plot make up for all of it, that's why Star Wars is loved, but like said in this video you got nitpicking movie critics ruining the atmosphere. The sequels are bad writing, no defending that corporate slog.

[@roarinfireball]

@@maxsrama336 No I get ya, it’s insane how nutty some people can be. I’ll always thumbs up a good thing, but I don’t really have a side. The most irritating part in my opinion; is how far off the edge Jar Jar’s actor, and Anakin’s actor were driven. None of what happened to those two was excusable from fans, fandoms, the school system, and the critics. I just hope that more people are willing to listen about the problems with toxic fandoms.

[@advisedd]

emplemon the type of guy to make a 40 minute documentary on how fortnite influenced the drake vs kendrick beef

[@avanbreems]

advised the type of guy to make a video on the scariest Roblox stories of all time (no hate someone gotta make the kids content)

[@cyndislopis]

"How mesopatamian farming practices influenced the fortnite item shop"

[@MrsMadam-o1d]

Part 2: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l4LIkq2qjbebf68

[@MrsMadam-o1d]

E

[@pr623145]

And if he did it'd still be a banger. ^^

[@Maximum_777]

It really is a miracle that Andor exists and is getting a 2nd season.

[@CascadianRanger]

And it could have gotten up to 5, but Gilroy decided he could tell his story in 2

[@hiya2793]

@@CascadianRanger good. Let things end. Let's not do a house of cards.