Jason Todd..

Check out and support this dope Red Hood fan film: • "The Outlaw" PROLOGUE ...
|| SOCIALS ||
Twitter: / leo4x1
Patreon: / implicitlypretentious
|| CONTENTS ||
0:00 - previously
2:26 - Path A - Jason falls
4:30 - Path B - Jason lives
5:33 - Path C1 - Batman Falls
8:31 - Path C2 - Batman Falls alternate
11:20 - obligatory music tribute (Day in Day out by Miles Avida)
13:04 - themes of togetherness
13:27 - credits and final message
|| mystery song of the day ||
I know how to hurt
I know how to heal
I know what to show
And what to conceal
I know when to talk
And I know when to touch
No one ever died
From wanting too much
The world is not enough
But it is such a perfect place to start, my love
And if you're strong enough
Together we can take the world apart, my love
People like us
Know how to survive
There's no point in living
If you can't feel alive
We know when to kiss
And we know when to kill
If we can't have it all
Then nobody will
The world is not enough
But it is such a perfect place to start, my love
And if you're strong enough
Together we can take the world apart, my love
I feel safe
I feel scared
I feel ready
And yet unprepared
The world is not enough
But it is such a perfect place to start, my love
And if you're strong enough
Together we can take the world apart, my love
The world is not enough
The world is not enough
Nowhere near enough
The world is not enough

[@The_Phantasm]

My favorite scene from this film is hands-down the scene with Jason and Joker at the diner. The way the music starts by giving the impression of a relaxing environment as it slowly descends into a more sinister track when Jason realizes who he is really sitting next to just masterfully fills you with emotion while at the same time knowing that only one of them was going to walk out of that door.

[@xanderkirk7872]

It definitely is the strongest scene to me. The smallness of the room and the attack from Jason is cool to see

[@CantBeJulius]

My favorite part of that scene is when joker realises it's Jason. He goes from sounding bored and a little depressed to having the biggest grin on his face.

[@albertthepeacock8020]

Mines is when Batman and Superman have a conversation in the diner really showing their human side. Batman opening up to Superman is criminally underrated and when Superman tells Batman he has a contingency plan to stop him if he goes over the edge in a calm confident tone is extremely powerful. It really shows the bond between the two without the writers pandering to the fanboys by making them fight.

[@jiado6893]

9:41 I feel like if Jason told the jury "I stabbed him because I found out that was The Joker," he'd be in clear.

[@Freedomerider]

He'd be given a medal of honor!

[@sonicmeerkat]

yeah a plea of momentary insanity would definitely give him a reduced sentence, may require outing his identity of robin though

[@dyland1842]

@@sonicmeerkat reduced sentence? He'd be hailed as a god damn hero

[@hands9776]

killing a mentally insane person is still a crime

[@hands9776]

@@dyland1842 hero is someone who protect people thats why batman isnt a hero his more like the cause of death to so many people redhood is a may be a killer but his saving more lives than batman ever did

[@dessam3939]

I think one of the most iconic moments from this story is when The Joker calls Jason his son after he is reborn into a killing machine with no remorse just like him, really adds to the metaphor of him taking the mantle of Red Hood.

[@RaptorJesus]

That monologue is one of the best Joker moments ever put to animation. Like Batman, he found a way to win *where everybody still loses.*

[@shadewolf0075]

It kinda reminds me of the three jokers story where one of things they did to mess with Jason was tell him they were secretly turning him into another joker the whole time and used the fact he uses their old alter ego as his vigilante name as proof

[@ljeans531]

Yes, did this movie with the family letting then take turns with the choices. It was fun, but it's kinda harsh when Bruce literally says death isn't a game

[@TERRELL_GASKINS]

So 5 years pass after Jason's death

[@bluecanine3374]

That moment after saying Jason was reborn then does the jazz hands with the churchy "Hallelujah!" after words made me laugh then sad.

[@chikihando2483]

Jason and Joker in the cafe ending is fr a masterpiece

[@mandalorianhunter1]

I didn't even find this out until last year and I was like, WTF is this and why did I not know about this?

[@gayleb91169]

What movie?

[@revanchists]

Artistic perfection. The Mozart piece playing in the background completes it

[@bluecanine3374]

The shift on Joker's face in the cafe ending, after Jason tells him the big mam says hello, it's like you can see the psychotic light return to his eyes, it was well animated. Makes you think that Joker could have legit gone straight if fate hadn't made them cross paths again out of pure luck.

[@thecastaways2]

I love Jason's story because it's one based off of real psychology and understanding of the concept of rebirth, and how that would realistically be a trauma that only adds to the experience of death. To be killed by a psychopath only to then be revived by the daughter of a different psychopath, the combination of the experience of regaining life and conciousness after losing it violently and brutaly, would sear into a person's mind so much that if Jason was a real person, he probably commit suicide because the memory and impact of both events would be too much to bare. The fact he continued on in life shows part of his mental, and probably neurological strength in some sense.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

Wouldn’t exactly say fully based in psychology sine Lazarus pit is suppose to cause temporary insanity.

[@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447]

why would being revived ve so traumatic? you say that's the realistic outcome, but what are you basing this on?

[@fightingmedialounge519]

@@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447 aside from the in universe way it's done, revival would come with both the trauma of remembering your death and readjusting to your living body.

[@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447]

@@fightingmedialounge519 I'm bot sure that there would even be a need to readjust, i think that it'll just feel like a "cut" in editing

[@fightingmedialounge519]

@@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447 it most likely would. Just think of the physical therapy needed when a part of your body is damaged.

[@Odrikah]

I know a lot of people were turned off by the multiple choice style of Death in the Family, but honestly I really think it was a wonderful homage to the original comic story where the entire outcome was decided by a fan vote. And it really kept it from just being another in a long line of pumped-out DC animated films. It makes it unique.

[@TITANia69420]

I can't believe Nolan North turned from a cop straight to a mugger in such a short timespan. One of the character progressions ever. 😭😭😭

[@MegaDrainProductions]

I really like the scene of Two-Face being the one to scold Jason. While he is mocking him, I feel like he's also self reflecting onto Jason. Jason used to be someone who used to mean something, like how Dent represented the law, now as Red Robin/Two-Face he's just another criminal. Considering he isn't in Under the Red Hood, they intentionally put Two-Face in this specifically for this purpose; It would be too random not to.

[@RickyUzumaki993]

I know, right?

[@oofyeet5935]

4 months late but Agreed people forget Harvey was a good man before he lost sanity

[@jpreyes6640]

@@oofyeet5935 depends on the adaptation, I think there's a version of Harvey that was having an affair on his wife.

[@daddyGbaby]

Two-Face is also responsible for jason fathers death so the fact that even his fathers killer understood batman mission more than him only adds to his shame.

[@stallionsLP]

It's funny how none of this would have ever happened, if it wasn't for one super fan that got so upset over Jason Todd "replacing Dick and being so annoying as Robin" that they all but rigged the vote to ensure he would die in that comic via shenanigans.

[@RickyUzumaki993]

Say what!?

[@SentinelHirsc]

​@@RickyUzumaki993it was found a long time later that the majority of the votes on the winning side were automated by one man.

[@getinloserweregoingshopping947]

@@RickyUzumaki993yeah, some guy made a program to repeatedly call the number that would make sure jason died. and that option still only won by a narrow margin, so it seems like he would’ve survived if it weren’t for that one guy.

[@RickyUzumaki993]

@@getinloserweregoingshopping947 What an asshole!

[@JohnWilliams-wl9px]

@@getinloserweregoingshopping947 from what was shown in the unreleased Jason lives comic. The plan was still Jason was going to be written out of the comic. Just he was going to be in a coma instead of dead. That way they could do the whole “Jason was Batman’s biggest mistake”.

[@JD_1776]

The og under the red hood movie is easily the best. “You found a way to win, but everyone still looses!”

[@godserena6059]

“He took me away from you” Damn

[@psycholuigiman]

Man. The bit of only understanding what his father was trying to teach him after he died really hit home for me. Similar thing happened to me.

[@wrylucifer]

4:50 Every identity he has here is something affiliated with him. Jason was originally suppose to come back as Hush, but the editors didn't like that and just made Clayface pose as him. In Countdown, Jason goes to a world were Batman killed his rouges gallery after his Jason's death and gives the main Jason the Red Robin suit, which he made for his for when he grew up or something like that.

[@zachzone906]

"Writing your own life alone is a futile task, but writing with someone in mind and then sharing that is how you write more." I honestly don't know why this simple quote as a theme from one of my least favorite dcau movies ever was so astounding to me. It's a simple message to keep one going, like living to help others has more weight than living for your own glory. But also writing stories isn't meant to be kept a secret, stories are meant to be told. So thank you for the most thought provoking message I've heard in a long time with just a few simple words. I'm glad you share these stories with us because it inspires more people than you realize.

[@ogladaczr.t.3168]

I'm not sure if you understood correctly. Or, if I didn't. In the Dinner, before the scene, Jason talks about the strength to let go, and later calls joker friend. It was probably not an accident they met there, but it looks like Jason was still terrified when he seen he hadn't changed. I believe it was just Jason's finally appearing mental strength that was snapped when he saw that Joker was still deranged, found all the meaning of Batman's life... meaningless, a psycho trying to be better than or to save psychos. I don't think Jason went obsessed, i believe he exactly made a choice, there wasn't a "without hesitation" moment. And it is only because of that, that shame later comes. When people spend a lot of time planing something, they fight off the shame even before the act. We are ashamed of things perceived as mistakes, so deliberate choices or fast decisions. Like in Crime and Punishment. (which btw i can respect but still don't like)

[@The_preserver_x16]

I like this a lot. I appreciate the viewpoint

[@ogladaczr.t.3168]

@@The_preserver_x16 Thanks!

[@aguywithalotofopinions412]

Bit hypocritical of Dent of all people to tell Jason ''you used to stand for something''

[@CaptianSwan]

I think that just makes it more poignant, that even Dent looks down on you. He knows just how far Jason has fallen, because he's already at the bottom.

[@blegher]

I've always wanted to see what a reformed Jason would do if he met an unreformed one. What would he say? What would he do? How would he approach Batman?

[@darkothemapper1826]

That happent in Count down to final crisiss where Donna, kyle and Jason travel through multiverse and ended on earth 15 where they have taken their mentors mantles

[@TevyaSmolka]

Death in the family is such a interesting animated movie in my opinion.

[@TonyGiannamore]

Bruce Greenwood is one of my favorite Batman voice actors (next to the late Conroy). I would love for Greenwood to take on the mantle held by Conroy over Jason O'Mara from the DCAMU series.

[@the.time.capsule.podcast]

the diner scene in live action would be INSANE. Such a diamond in the rough when it comes to DITF animated movie. Again, so glad you decided to cover this character. The idea of Robin feeling like he was never enough for Batman feels way more real than the other Robins who use idolize him and have a healthy worship of him. A teenager who has lost his parents and got exposed to the horrors of the world from an early age fighting as Robin, is a recipe for INTENSE psychological damage and issues.

[@mandalorianhunter1]

We better get a Tim Drake video after this

[@pizzarolls5573]

Ong

[@cyc0maniac47]

Tim is the most boring robin

[@mandalorianhunter1]

@@cyc0maniac47 oh really? Who else agreed with you?

[@jackreeder215]

@@mandalorianhunter1 just did, I agree hes the most boring. At least Damians an ass

[@mandalorianhunter1]

@@jackreeder215 always that one account that never commented before comes out of nowhere just to reply to my post. Wow just a huge concidence of all y'all doing this for a year now.

[@Aertheris]

Jason Todd, The second Robin, The Red Hood. Oh man. my favorite character of all time.

[@kaybeeva]

phenomenal analysis as always. I really appreciate Jason Todd as a character and now get his hype cuz i used to skip over him when looking at the robins or bat family

[@chrisahearn789]

"his actions as Robin are guided by unresolved pain and anger" Sounds familiar

[@CC-Sixes]

Seeing this just piles more hype for Hi Top’s Jason film. IP thank you for giving acknowledgement to this side of the DC animated universe. I feel like everybody forgot about death in the family

[@tigeroats913]

This guy's narration makes me cry

[@kcpugh5601]

I was so pissed that hbo max didn't have the decision making version. I had just finished watching the original with my dad and we go to watch the other version and it's just the same but with more exposition.

[@tommymichalak1021]

I remember when this got added to hbo max I was excited to watch it. Then I put it on and it didn’t let me choose any paths, I was so disappointed lol. But by the sound of it I missed out on a pretty cool movie, I always thought alternate versions of Jason/Red Hood would be very interesting

[@ljeans531]

Favorite scene is Bruce death, he knew in that moment what was important.

[@kronos6948]

Dude, I really love your essays. So much more than surface fluff, and although "trauma" may be a funny trope of yours, it's something you analyze very well. I hope you can continue making content for years to come.

[@fynd]

you randomly appear in my recommended every few months and then i end up binging every video even those ive watched before! love it as always

[@joshiewashie1130]

YOU NEED to be showed more on youtube. The effort you put into your videos are amazing.

[@TheMoonmahn]

I see Implicitly Pretentious, I click. Simple as.

[@Aspect_of_the_idiot]

I don't think Batman should be killing people but the justice system needs to put these criminals on death row

[@Tomwithnonumbers]

That's always the thing about 'Should Batman kill?'. It's not his responsibility to make that decision, it's Gotham's.

[@MadameTamma]

I always counter the “Batman is responsible for everyone the joker kills” accusations with “why not the cops who haul him away after Batman catches him, or anyone who works in Arkham who has the opportunity to poison his food?”

[@cantthinkofaname5046]

Yeah, IRL the death penalty is stupid for an assortment of reasons, but in Gotham?? Gotham is like the one place where it's fairly reasonable to implement.

[@Ri-XBlazer]

I'd have to say the Hush ending is not only one of the most intriguing but the character design probably has the most to tell visually. And My favorite ending is probably the most important and yet the most tragic in terms of choices- The one where Bruce literally dies to save Jason (and later on his soul), The path where he not only let's The Joker live (But seemingly and then later finally buries or some might even say fully confronts and moves on from his own pain, Using the same set of beliefs and morals to as he puts it Helps save a resurrected Bruce (Thanks to Talia) and more importantly his soul. Now that ending is the probably the most depressing as we get teased with a version of Jason who's not only overcome his own darkness thanks to Bruce but has also seen the truth he desprately spent so long trying to tell his "Son" about what it truly means when taking up the task of shining down a beam of light throughout Gotham but also becoming a beacon of the hope.. But that sad irony here is that that very person who never stopped believing in Jason is now himself lost- But I think there's sort of a beauty to that as now the Bat-family strives to work as a whole to do what they do best for Bruce sake, pulling him back from his own darkness. Not to mention I heard that Zor En Ar, those last words he heard his father say before that tragic moment is the alleyway (Very Tragic to know that moment is replaying in his head), but I guess in the comics it's the name of an alternate personality Bruce creates or creates for himself in case he ever went insane- (So basically a backup plan. If he ever got AL Gulle'd, meaning that this ending is the most hopefully if it's remotely taking from the comics.

[@luna_for_tuna]

love to see more of jason todd, my favorite robin, and my favorite character

[@TrademarkMusickalt]

you're intros never cease to give me goosebumps

[@hewouwu590]

Lovely introspection as always. It's always interesting to listen to other's opinion and what they took from something.

[@gaelgonzales3672]

Dude I love your videos. Somehow they're so good even thought they're so short, short but effective

[@Grif92311]

Youre outros are always 10/10. This new one might be the best. I love Jason Todd, and this is just a excellent video. Thank you.

[@grins9882]

Your videos are always an amazing experience

[@takenname8053]

I never knew there was multiple endings.

[@markmagician2471]

The greatest Robin ever

[@titleinworkingprogress8867]

This was good. Looking forward to see the more.

[@valentinesound4523]

Ending song kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z3OQdGCFiqmNZ6c&ab_channel=EpidemicPop - Flux Vortex: City Girl

[@misadventuresofawanderer1828]

I salute you

[@Blue-mr7fe]

Thanks man

[@MiGUel-ani]

Thank you seriously i love these videos you are the only creator i recommend to my friends

[@MiGUel-ani]

They don't even like comics

[@youraveragereapermain4993]

Now we wait for "Jason Todd..."

[@overloft7201]

your videos are amazing i love them please continue

[@djgrundel224]

As usual, top tier content🤘🏻

[@stranger5011]

The Tim Drake one is the superior ending.

[@hawke7471]

I really like the Red Hood path leading to the Zurr En Arr ending.

[@stranger5011]

@@hawke7471 That's a close second to me.

[@thomaswalter7329]

I love your videos so much

[@garcellclands1387]

Imma be so real. You do not fucking miss. Every video I’ve seen over the past two weeks has been a banger

[@jasontodd433]

I appreciate this for the multiple stories it tells... what I didn't care for was how short the stories are. I also felt the constant need to tie in some of the newer stories felt, idk, cheap? Or was there just because? My favorite of these has got to be the Two-Face ending both of them. Having Jason rescued by the kid in another world he fought against was kinda poetic (I don't like the bat-kid costume either) and Two-Face in a weird way embody both Harvey and Two-Face at the same time tearing Jason down and teaching him a lesson. Kinda shows that there is hope for both of them yet

[@zeztylemons5159]

I was so close to crying... good video

[@brokenbeing13]

I’m a simple minded person. I see Jason Todd or anything to do with him, I click.

[@RickyUzumaki993]

Same here

[@richmcgee434]

Where's the option where Batman hands the gun to any of the literally thousands of surviving family and friends of Joker's countless murder victims over the years and tells them to do what they want? Odds are Joker's brains are splattered all over the wall where they belong a second later, and both Bruce and Jason can call it justice. They've never been about law, that's why they're vigilantes, and there is no truer justice than letting those who've suffered from a criminal's actions decide their fate. And hey, if the first choice opts to let Giggles the Mass Murderer live, they can pass the gun to the next candidate. And the next. And the next, until someone accepts the price society's law demands, finally puts him down forever and goes to serve a few years in jail *at most*.

[@kwayneboy1524]

Yeah but that's not interesting and can be seen as him abandoning his morals and putting at odds with other heroes.

[@richmcgee434]

@@kwayneboy1524 It's your opinion that it's not interesting. There are an awful lot of people who are so fed up with Joker existing that I'll wager plenty of folks disagree with you. Batman's villains are all old and tired and absurd, even more so than he is, but you could still eke one last decent story out of their victims' survivors doing what neither Batman nor the law seem capable of - stopping their killing sprees for good.

[@kwayneboy1524]

@@richmcgee434 they could but the story won't be canon because nobody is gonna want to do that and many writers would just treat it as an else world story. Also "Batman's are old tired and absurd" dude you're reading comics of course everything is absurd all villains and heroes are so I don't get your point. Plus nobody is gonna want or accept it as official because who would?

[@youngwindmillgang3239]

this channel is fire af

[@itchyJaw]

I love your presentation!

[@colingallagher1648]

Such a fyre channel

[@Rorington]

Man, haven't watched the interactive one. But fuck, this was extremely well done. As always, loved watching your content mate. Keep it up.

[@whateverjustgetitoverwith4456]

I love the tim drake ending apart from his hilarious costume

[@fuboniousmcgee570]

Incredible video

[@tasbhu764]

What a great video

[@insaneworld211]

I'm hella biased, the Tim Drake ending. I love it so much. FINALLY TIM IS HERE Sure it was so short, but TIM ITS TIM!

[@171QA]

Great video.

[@benjaminjane93]

Bro I love Red Robin & Batkid as an elseworld concept.

[@hebermasseque4314]

I can’t lie I stay for the theme song everytime I love it

[@AugustVonpetersborg]

Wonderful video

[@kevlon19]

"If someone can be saved, I have to try" - Batman

[@everlyscut9788]

Again?! Let’s see what’s up

[@thefez-cat]

Giving Bat-Kid a second second of ears is really the clincher. Like the cowl has ears. You don't need his ears sticking out, he looks like Alfred E. Neuman in a Batman Halloween costume.

[@ericsalas5650]

death in the family is one of best animated flim adaptations

[@redhood8798]

Impressive. Very nice.

[@dbzcupcake]

04:50 he doesn't shack up with her she leaves Damian with him but promises to be a resource to help him. I'm guessing because she's still doing jobs for her dad but wanted Damian to be a secret. Otherwise Jason couldn't twist Damian against Talia

[@janefkrbtt]

you think after batman died and Bruce Wayne went dark everyone in Gotham was like "oooooooohhhh"

[@feetenthusiast1015]

I know ending a villains life won't take the pain away but it sure will take future pain that villain will inflict on the masses 😂 I'd do it, no hesitation

[@JS-my4jw]

Okay, let's be real here. When Jason kills Joker in the diner, no jury in the world would convict him to prison. All he'd have to say (especially since Joker wipes away the paint to reveal his true appearance before dying, and I have no doubt there are CCTV cameras in there because you know, it's Gotham) is "I realized I was sitting next to the Joker. A man so cruel and dangerous, he's killed thousands for the sake of it. He looked at me and grinned like he's done before taking so many other lives before, and I was afraid for my own life" and any jury in Gotham would rule it as a case of self-defense.

[@jakerobinson9475]

Great video. There were only two things I hated about the short: Tim as Bat-Kid (seriously the dumbest codename ever) and that the killing Joker choice doesn’t mean anything. It would have been better if killing the Joker meant that Jason chose to kill Batman, while letting him live means he makes the opposite choice.

[@KittSpiken]

The climax of the Under The Red Hood doesn't work if Bruce told him what really happened. That he decided enough was enough, Just like Jason thought he should have, that Superman left the scene (with good reason) knowing what Bruce had resolved to do, that he only didn't see it through because he had to bail from the crashing helicopter they were both on and that crash plus a stray bullet in the chest weren't enough to kill the Joker. That in the times they clashed since he had apparently forgot about it.

[@yolomcswaggins4929]

Killer vid

[@juliuszukauskas9137]

We need a movie of this 4:18

[@thefakentpope3749]

Now time for an Arkham Jason Todd video

[@hjuoowou560]

This video is so sad

[@chadjones1266]

I missed this one somehow

[@illithidlore]

Does this mean we'll start getting some Young Justice vids soon?

[@WisdomofTheStar]

Song at the end: Flux vortex City girl

[@Blue-mr7fe]

Mystery song is "Garbage: The world is not enough" 15 years ago as of now

[@DPSS927]

I'll confess, one thing I didn't like about this movie is how they changed the narrative of why Jason was in that warehouse at all. Because for those who don't know, Jason didn't go to Ethiopia for the Jaoker, he went to tracj down his birthmother. He went into that house because wanted to know her, to be with her and impressive. But no, the movie just uses that old narrative the Bruce likes to push that Jason was reckless, headstrong and didn't follow order. That it was ultimately these flaws that got him killed. That his death was his own fault because of all that.

[@tremel7336]

I thought the last video would be the last we see of Jason Todd, thank Implicitly Pretentious it's not.

[@ryanbishop8217]

I need another smallville video

[@daltonschippers7380]

👏👏👏

[@theultimatepielord8697]

Death, taxes, and Tim Drake having awful costumes. Great video!

[@Megatron-yn6nc]

Under the Red Hood - Oh No, how can Batman be so cruel? Jason would never let the Joker live if Batman died. Death in the Family - Oh No, not like this...

[@pinkgengar]

on the scene when Jason talked about Barbara getting shot by the Joker, was he implying he also sexually assaulted her? I know people have discourse about weather that was what happened in the comics

[@LordSeth-hf8ew]

41k in 17hrs is wicked

[@nofacedgoldfish6216]

I want a sequel for Under the Red Hood following the comics for Battle for the Cowl. Some things would need to be altered for simplicity similar to how Jason's resurrection being simplified in Under the Red Hood. They'd need to have a way that Bruce dies that isn't like from Crisis, and Tim Drake wouldn't be in it as he has no canonical appearance in the batfamily in the film, and the only way for him to be properly introduced is if we had gotten another movie between Under the Red Hood and Battle for the Cowl. Or maybe combine Battle for the Cowl and Knightfall into a comic, and Bruce being paralyzed permanently could be why Dick needs to become Batman and Jason is ruining Batman's reputation by killing criminals as the Caped Crusader. I just want Jensen Ackles back as Jason for crying out loud.

[@visiblyvisible6451]

The solution no one ever talks about. Make joker handicapped ☠️

[@CaptainCJ97]

That batkid outfit is pretty odd & good vid

[@felipecouto1102]

I am really conflicted by the Death in the Family interactive movie. On one side, its interesting seeing a what-if like this that has more content than a usual what-if - on the other side, I think it's kinda backwards on the themes that it wanted to tell on ''Under the Red Hood''. The sequence where Jason is supposed to ''heal'' is precisely the one that... proves that no matter how much healing done he would still kill the Joker? That the trauma is bigger than any help he could get? Because that's also the most hopeful ending - he did kill the Joker, and after much happened, he DID overcome his trauma and raised Tim. One thing I liked about Under the Red Hood is that it did portray that the Code Batman follows didn't magically make everything good (like you talked about on the first Jason video, and something that happens on a LOT of Batman media), much on the contrary, it kinda proves Jason's point that Batman's methods don't really work (although the movie also doesn't agree with Jason's methods). In the Interactive movie... it doesn't really talks about that? It focuses much more on the point of healing from that trauma, but, like I said before... it also contradicts itself, because it shows that he didn't actually heal. Like you said, Batman argues that giving into hatred and revenge would make the pain never leave him... but it did. I don't know, it seemed to me that the morals and themes of the story were all over the place, even contradicting each other.