💥Let's Rank the Non-Cast Duo Boons! | Hades

Let's take a deep dive looking at the NON-CAST Duo boons! If you are interested in my thoughts on the cast duo boons, check out this video: • Ranking the Cast Duo B...
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Hades is a god-like rogue-like dungeon crawler that combines the best aspects of Supergiant's critically acclaimed titles, including the fast-paced action of Bastion, the rich atmosphere and depth of Transistor, and the character-driven storytelling of Pyre.
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As the immortal Prince of the Underworld, you'll wield the powers and mythic weapons of Olympus to break free from the clutches of the god of the dead himself, while growing stronger and unraveling more of the story with each unique escape attempt.
UNLEASH THE FURY OF OLYMPUS
The Olympians have your back! Meet Zeus, Athena, Poseidon, and many more, and choose from their dozens of powerful Boons that enhance your abilities. There are thousands of viable character builds to discover as you go.
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[@JoXnCostello]

The thing about Curse of Longing is that because the damage reduces by half each time, the most it can be worth in terms of raw damage is +100% - and only if it goes forever. I think that probably more significant is the fact that the Doom and the Weak last the same amount of time, which means you’ll get Privileged Status “for free”.

[@JawlessPaul]

Good point! Actually though I believe the correct % is %99.99999999999999... 🤣

[@Frenzyshark]

Sometimes privileged status is the difference between massive damage and... lot of damage. If you can maintain it when it counts, it really does help. Privileged status from a cold fusion and razor shoals helped me win my first 37 heat run.

[@ginichimaru9020]

It seems like whenever Artims gets involved in a duo boon, it makes it very valuable and somtimes busted.

[@liamcristello2591]

6/7 Artemis duos are really solid And then there’s Lightning Rod…

[@santiagokarim3313]

@@liamcristello2591 wdym lightning rod is so solid!! I

[@JawlessPaul]

Haha, that's true. Her duo's are pretty sick

[@crimsonECH1DNA]

The only time I look for Curse of Longing is when I specifically do a Dionysus Chiron Bow poison build.

[@JawlessPaul]

Same. Drunken fist also benefits, but it's still hard to get the 8 stacks

[@crimsonECH1DNA]

@@JawlessPaul I think the only thing I slightly disagreed with placing wise is I'd personally put Vengeful Mood up in S-Tier as well. It admittedly takes a lot of work to getgoing but the fact that Revenge Damage also gets to benefit from Pressure Points and the Eris Rail buffs.

[@ShearsOfAtropos]

I find i sometimes want curse of longing to get consistent privileged status when i'm doing an artemis/aphrodite build and run into ares by chance. its good for that

[@JawlessPaul]

I can see it for priv status I suppose... but still 🤣

[@reboot3332]

Curse of Longing is a top tier secondary boon, meaning if doom is not part of your main build but maybe on your special, it is amazing for that big time extra dmg which you wouldn't be applying constantly anyway.

[@JawlessPaul]

I suppose, but I'd probably argue you'd be better off just using your special a little more often. To each their own I suppose! 👍

[@Ango825]

Nice! Just when I wanted some technical knowledge to improve my runs in Hades and to past time :)

[@JawlessPaul]

I got you! 😁

[@weebly7908]

Great teir list Paul! This really helped me out when trying to fight extreme measures Hades!

[@JawlessPaul]

Glad it was helpful!

[@ryanscottnix]

Paul, thank you for your excellent Hades content. Absolutely top notch!

[@JawlessPaul]

I'm glad you enjoy it! Cheers!

[@GrandDuchessTaco]

I absolutely agree on Curse of Longing, and it is actively useless with Merciful End because Merciful End clears the Doom each time despite Weak allegedly keeping the Doom.

[@JawlessPaul]

True! Cheers!

[@user-ld8wl6fm8i]

Nice video, dude. I hope your channel will become bigger.

[@JawlessPaul]

Ah, the things I didn't know in 2019 😑

[@Cysubtor_8vb]

Hmm, guess it's because RNG screw me over so much, but I don't really go for many duo boons. The exceptions being Sea Storm, Mirage Shot/Hunting Blades (which would be the cast list) and Curse of Nausea; with Lightning Rod (pretty much any Artemis duo, really), Low Tolerance and Vengeful Mood (which I love, but I don't build around it) being appreciated lucky drops.

[@WillJBailey]

This list is definitely from the perspective of a highly experienced player. For example for newer players the Demeter/Athena duo boon where you regain health is s tier. It helped me beat the game the first couple of times

[@JawlessPaul]

I know a lot of people love that one 🙂

[@WillJBailey]

@@JawlessPaul it’s great because when you’re nearly dead you can refill your health by killing time dashing around. True it’s probably not needed once you get good

[@viniciusmartinssilva3018]

I think sea of storms is better than merciful end because sea of storms work with more aspects. You can use sea of storms in eris, Lucifer or Chiron, for instance, it's still good, not the case for merciful end. Besides that, if you end up unlucky and don't get the duo boon, suds like tidal dash and Zeus aid are still pretty op by itself.

[@JawlessPaul]

Fair point!

[@stewpidaso1024]

Curse of longing works good with Dionysus at the attack Afro dash with ares on the special when using the fists.

[@JawlessPaul]

It is a thing! 😂

[@Mali8029]

I would say sweet nectar is pretty good actually specially since we are considering specific builds. If you are playing Hera or Beowulf you will want Crush Shot along side Mirage Shot and in the pursuit of it you have a good chance of getting it automatically, on top of that Casts in general scale pretty well with Poms and so do other common boons in the build like Pressure Points, so I would say overall it is a meh boon but when talking specific build it brings a lot of value. The biggest downside is if you get it late but even if you get it late Elysium the shop before the boss might have 1 POM and in Styx usually has 2-3, the tunnels might have an extra one as well so all in all a pretty good power increase. On a side note Exclusive Access does not make you more likely to get Legendary or Duo boons, these rarity is rolled first and they get no chance increase from Exclusive Access so only after the chance for this has played out will you get the chance for Epic which will be 100% so you will always get Epic. To improve your chance of finding a Legendary you should fill all of your core boons and pick as many tier 2 boons as possible to get them out of the pool, as an example if you are choosing an Aphrodite boon and you have either Empty Inside, Sweet Surrender or Broken Resolve you should pick them(if your objective is to increase your chance at an Aphrodite Legendary). What this does is remove this so called "priority boons" from the pool and allowing for all 3 slots to have a chance to roll a Legendary. TLDR exclusive Rare/Epic quality increases don't increase your chance at a Leg/Duo, filling your slots and taking all the tier 2 boons does.

[@JawlessPaul]

I had thought this was true too, but I had heard differently. Of course you need the prerequisites before a duo or legendary boon can show up, but there's a hidden mechanic

[@michaelw6277]

I think I’d push Curse of Longing up to C. It has some utility if you’re not running a Doom focused build but happen to have the ability to spread Doom rapidly… like via Bow, Shield, or Sword special. It’s not the choice if things are going your way in a run, but if the RNG is being mean to you I think it can be useful.

[@JawlessPaul]

I guess maybe 😂

[@Egelund_]

Sea storm is the most fun boon in the game in my opinion. I also think heart rend is s++ tier IF you're running nemesis aspect, aphro attack with free crit from nem slaps.

[@JawlessPaul]

There's a lot big numbers there for sure! If you can find a way to get hunter's mark it's pretty amazing too!

[@tiagoj8020]

What other weapons can you use other than the fist that perks Merciful End?

[@JawlessPaul]

I think they all do, but fist is so fast. I think next would be Rail, then sword, then spear, then shield (knockback) and finally bow doesn't really do too well with merciful end.

[@DigitalAwakening]

Thanks for another great video. I find these ranking videos to be very informative. I think I agree with your rankings, more or less :) Didn't know Merciful End was that good, I've seen it and passed it up more than once. I noticed that Deadly Reversal also requires Athena's attack or special. How do you go for these in a build? Since the dash is not enough, but probably the one you get first? Do you basically have to target these builds from the beginning of the run? Are you sure that Exclusive Access increases chance of Duo and Legendary? I think boons are selected and then rolled for rarity, not all options in one big pool. Since you can't get the same boon twice in the same pack. Being a programmer myself, that's how I would code it. I do wonder if EA allows you to find heroic boons? Without switching out existing boons, which is one way to get it normally. Stubborn Roots is really good if you are not speed-running. The healing is so good that you can easily heal up to full against Hades without effort. Not tried against Extreme Measures. I usually beat hades before I'm on my last chance. I have taken this like 3-4 times and only activated it once. Basically I agree with your ranking though, this is good if you don't have anything better.

[@OnDaJohn]

EA doesn't increase duo chances or allow for heroics, as per the game files. Also, rarity rolls are done first, starting at higher rarities and ending at common, then boons are chosen to fit those rarities. Edit: anything that states "rare or better" or "upgraded rarity" adds 10% duo/legendary chance. If it only states one rarity, it only affects that rarity.

[@JawlessPaul]

I haven't looked at the game files, when I was talking about it with other Hades players they said that it worked something like that. Could be wrong though! I don't think it would change the ranking to much

[@OnDaJohn]

There's a great thread called "A mostly complete guide to boon quality" or something close to that on reddit. Game chooses 1+ core boons first if you don't have all 5 filled out, then sets their rarity. Next it determines rarity of remaining boons then picks boons to fit those. Interestingly, if you have most of your core slots filled out, you are more likely to get duos because the game has fewer biased core boons to offer. Of course, this can be risky as you could dilute your duo pool!

[@DigitalAwakening]

@@OnDaJohn Yeah, I think I learnt about that from one of Paul's videos. I often pick the core boons quickly. So I have a higher chance to get the boons I want later, when I spend my rerolls.

[@Rat-kb2rc]

There are a lot more cast boons than I thought

[@JawlessPaul]

Yeah! Almost half the duo boons are for cast builds!

[@LevitLame]

Are you sure that's how Exclusive Access works? Everywhere I read says it doesn't effect Duo and legendary. Which I'd assume means that it rolls for rarity and just auto-upgrades any common/rares to epic AFTER the percentage roll. Which would leave Heroic/Legendary/Duo boons unaffected. But I can't find anyone actually pointing to data so hell if I know.

[@JawlessPaul]

I am not 100% sure exactly how it works in the code but I have heard from Hades experts that it will help you find more legendaries and duos somehow

[@timbojonesunderwood3086]

exclusive access should be A tier. Just for the fact of the Hermes boons. guaranteed +3 dash or 16 coin per room should have been mentioned. Early exclusive access is an easy win for me.

[@JawlessPaul]

Great point!

[@liamcristello2591]

I almost get bored of Sea Storm, how easy it is to exploit makes it feel like whenever Poseidon shows up I have to go find Zeus or I’m passing up a ton of damage

[@JawlessPaul]

Haha, I can see that. It's like... if you have poseidon, you would be a fool not to also get Zeus

[@jackcristo1628]

Something to note about Curse of Longing: When you apply Doom to an already-Doomed foe, you update the Doom damage but not the duration. So even in the scenario where you're constantly applying Doom, Curse of Longing gives you the benefit of frame-perfect Doom re-application, whereas normally you're going to have some human delay between when Doom activates and when you're re-applying it.

[@JawlessPaul]

Fair point!

[@jackcristo1628]

@@JawlessPaul Still agree with the D rating though, since Merciful End is better and pretty much negates this benefit. The best use case for Curse of Longing I can think of is on an Ares shield throw spammer, since you don't have a good, safe way to hit enemies with Athena from afar. Very niche.

[@Anteflop]

Oof smoldering air not making s…

[@JawlessPaul]

It nearly made it!

[@chadlaker962]

Wo nice learnt sme new things about the boons here thnks jp👍

[@JawlessPaul]

You are welcome!

[@sudhanshugupta9155]

Can you do a build tierlist? (Builds in an ideal scenario)

[@JawlessPaul]

Ooof... that would be super hard. I could do one for each weapon, which would be exhausting 😂

[@tiagoj8020]

Sure you can palm any boon VS Exclusive Access, but it's because you need less palms so you choose the other options and get more powerful that way along with all the other things you mentioned. It's S tier IMO.

[@bladestaff46]

poms are also more effective on higher rarity boons

[@JawlessPaul]

Fair, fair!

[@ritwikism]

I will not accept such disrespect to Heart Rend. Jokes aside, beeeg numbers are beeeg

[@JawlessPaul]

That's what I hear! 🤣

[@tiagoj8020]

Curse of longing depends on how long weak is applied so sweet surrender is crucial.

[@JawlessPaul]

I think the numbers would get so low at that point though...

[@tiagoj8020]

I didn't know a palm increases your crit chance by 1%! Good to know thanks!

[@ritwikism]

He meant specifically a Pom on Pressure Points is a linear 1% every time (so there's so no diminishjng returns)

[@tiagoj8020]

@@ritwikism oh thanks!

[@JawlessPaul]

Yup, just on pressure points. Sorry I wasn't clear about that!

[@louismuir9485]

where was Mirage Shot?

[@JawlessPaul]

That would be a cast duo boon! I made a video on all of those as well (12 of the duo boons are for cast)

[@louismuir9485]

@@JawlessPaul ah thank you, I see my inability to read the video title has embarrassed me 😅

[@NYKevin100]

Hard disagree on Stubborn Roots. Unless you're playing with EM3+ or Tight Deadline, it's a free win. It is literally impossible to lose with Stubborn Roots, provided you are capable of kiting the bosses and other enemies. EM3+ prevents this because it makes the bosses much harder to kite, and Tight Deadline prevents this because you're on a timer. Without one of those two specific punishments, you can just kite up to full health and continue playing as if nothing happened. You may, of course, find this play style boring, but personally, I can't imagine putting a boon that effectively says "you can't lose" at anything other than S tier.

[@JawlessPaul]

Fair enough. It's a nice healing boon. And in a roguelike, healing is very nice to have!