How to retreat off a sport climbing route, featuring the Pongoose clipstick.

[@spectac1983]

No need to apologize for longer videos. I appreciate all the info and how you cover scenarios I may not have considered.

[@JBMountainSkills]

Cheers!

[@davidseigo7978]

Totally agree. These videos never get fast forwarded. Lol. I love the pace, helps me visualise and learn. Fantastic.

[@jamesnurgle6368]

"these videos are about me learning as well" I think it's that attitude that makes these videos so great, no ego just exploring the topic

[@JBMountainSkills]

Cheers!

[@benmace6865]

Great tip with the prussik! Always feels a bit sketch stripping a route from a single bolt. Also thinking about trading in my beta stick for a pongoose due to the issues you outlined. The beta stick also doesn't work with larger quickdraw carabiners as the wire is too short to hold the gate open.

[@JBMountainSkills]

Glad you liked it! Hope you enjoy the Pongoose if you get one!

[@instinctroller]

Agreed, the prussik tip was really useful 👍👍

[@CarlWD88]

I quite enjoy the longer in depth videos mate, great content and really informative 👌

[@JBMountainSkills]

Glad you liked it!

[@partykrew666]

14:21 that is one noble looking dog if I've ever seen one

[@JBMountainSkills]

He tries his best!

[@jeremyballard7461]

Really like the Prusick tip👍👍

[@JBMountainSkills]

Glad it was helpful!

[@bman6065]

As an American "these draws are twenty pounds". My first reaction was the weight 🤣. Oh yeah he's a Brit. That would be close to my full rack

[@JBMountainSkills]

Hahaha, sorry 😂

[@ben1910]

Like the longer videos always good having all the information

[@JBMountainSkills]

Glad you liked it :)

[@coryupton669]

This was the video I was looking for awesome info in here.

[@JBMountainSkills]

Nice one, glad you liked it!

[@Oscar-if6lq]

That prussik tip is quality. I'm going to carry a prussik whenever I climb single pitch sport routes now.

[@dallinmilby8021]

I was searching for this exact video topic mere days before you posted this video! So glad KZbin suggested it now that it's out. Thanks for the tips!

[@JBMountainSkills]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Number12lookslikejoe]

pongoose clip sticks are the bollocks! had mine for 3 months now and its seriously helped me and my partner climb harder routes

[@JBMountainSkills]

Ace aren't they!

[@smeghead666]

I dig the upside down klemheist for sliding down the rope so when/if the bolt fails and you do fall onto the draw below, it's in the correct orientation to lock, very funky

[@danielbell5755]

I discovered a new way to clip to bolts thanks

[@JBMountainSkills]

Pleasure 👊

[@cleanascent]

Very useful. I love my Pongoose too.

[@wakojakko3241]

Pukka video mate. Gonna grab a pongoose next year for my South Wales v2 trip 😁

[@JBMountainSkills]

Well worth it!

[@FlatOutFE]

Great video. There is another way where you can leave nothing behind that requires a sling, can't be more than 1/3 of the rope off the ground, and a very trust-worthy bolt.

[@GregSidberry]

Called Texas rope trick. Bit longer than using a locker, but preferred way to bail on sport

[@adriansth]

wow, the prussik thing was mindblowing, would not have though by my self and such a easy way to make it safer.

[@JBMountainSkills]

Glad you liked it :)

[@whelmking6497]

I just found your vids and love them. Always so much to learn. In this vid, it's the use of a prusik (or other friction knot) when bailing off a bailer beaner (as I call them). Really helpful safety tip that makes perfect sense!

[@donkyuhbuhts540]

That was a good idea for that prusik knot

[@KombiLife]

definitely getting a Pongoose - thanks mate

[@JBMountainSkills]

Pleasure 👊

[@jeremyromine9718]

Your personality is very magnetic so the longer your videos the better for us when we are learning from a pro. Thanks for another thought provoking video.

[@JBMountainSkills]

Very kind!

[@mnewman1871]

Nice one Jez! I used the prusik technique the other day in Gower after I got completely lost at what I thought was the top of a 25m route 😅

[@JBMountainSkills]

Nice one 👊

[@123amsterdan456]

Downleading with a competent belayer that pulls slack quickly and correctly after the removal of the draws always felt kinda safe for me (of course depends on the route). In sport climbing you can sometimes get to the clipping position, unclip, let your mate pull some of the slack out then do one or two max backing up move,s just release to fall to the next bolt. And I do feel is very important to train downclimbing anyways, specially for people that climb some more sketchy/adventurous stuff or even just in case of an emergency

[@ae8133]

prusik for bailing off one bolt is great - thank you for the video. My initial thought on that though was whether the prusik would hold or snap in the scenario you show with the animation??

[@JBMountainSkills]

I've seen a fella testing it on Insta, it held, but I personally wouldn't particularly want to find out..!

[@eloimauri6235]

Great video! Thanks for including the prussik technique that I requested via Instagram! Greetings from Barcelona :)

[@JBMountainSkills]

No worries!!

[@MarkTilburgs]

I always have a set of 1prusik, 1 maillon rapide and a leaver biner on the back of my harness. Just so I have the different options available

[@davidf6154]

Thanks for the info!

[@JBMountainSkills]

Pleasure!

[@calumlong7860]

If you had a clipstick and had some way of securing it in/to a rucksac, could you climb up to one clip below where you fell, secure yourself there with the quickdraw, and remove the one above it with the clipstick? Of course, you'd have to trust the quickdraw/ bolt your on until the rope is tightened but it could work couldn't it?

[@Mindwave416]

I love the term "Yonkies" def gonna look into the pongoose as i don't have a clip stick yet

[@JBMountainSkills]

They're good bits of kit!

[@johng1097]

Great info !

[@JBMountainSkills]

Cheers!

[@testboga5991]

Suuuper helpful!

[@jurgenkogel9823]

very fan but also good thing for flat rock !

[@PhweeRage]

What about re-threading the rope through the bolt itself? Then after removing that last quickdraw in that bolt, abseiling yourself off with a belay device (or abseil device) on the doubled up rope so there's no loaded friction on the bolt, then pulling the rope through when you're down?

[@CoNFiiDeNTiiAL]

Not all areas have eye bolts on the rock. Some use a threaded expanding stud bolt with a 'hanger' fastened on to it with a nut and lock washer

[@PhweeRage]

@@CoNFiiDeNTiiAL yes this is true and this would perfectly facilitate the method I just suggested 😊

[@CoNFiiDeNTiiAL]

@@PhweeRage I personally wouldn't abseil on a rope which is anchored on a hanger

[@PhweeRage]

@@CoNFiiDeNTiiAL Then it shouldn't be there to be trusted to take a fall on if you won't trust it with a static load.

[@CoNFiiDeNTiiAL]

@@PhweeRage no its because the hangers edges are smaller and sharper than an eye bolt

[@bfoles506]

Awesome! Is this the long (14ft) or short (9ft)?

[@JBMountainSkills]

I have both but think this is my short one in this video. If I could only have one, I’d personally buy the long one.

[@tomrookes8247]

Any thoughts on threading a glue in bolt to bail rather than using a maillon? Provided the bolt doesn't have any sharp edges

[@JBMountainSkills]

Definitely a valid way :)

[@robertcreer8826]

Really like the prussik technique

[@JBMountainSkills]

Ace 💪

[@mattbaker1683]

Great video as ever, thanks. Intrigued how you'd get your clipstick up if you were, say 15m up a 20m climb and didn't want to be lowered off to go back up again? Is there a safe method to get it to you while you're up on the route? Apart from the obvious, mate lowers it on a second rope from the level above... Also is there an unsafe method, because it's always good to know what isn't safe and why. I guess the petzl recommended method is because the classic prusik is bidirectional and the rope will pull the opposite way in a bolt blowing? Also could you please link the petzl page?

[@benmace6865]

This is explained in the vid. Basically clip hard into a bolt and lower a bunch of rope down to your belayer to haul up the clip stick. Yes it's sketch as you're only on a single bolt. A safer way is to get your belayer to lower you down a bit and clip in hard to the second last bolt whilst also tying hard into the rope itself just beneath the bolt with a locker. This creates a closed Loop of rope with two bolts instead of just one. Then when you haul up the clip stick, untie this backup knot, yard back up the rope to your high point and begin the clip stick process to gain the next bolt.

[@JBMountainSkills]

You'll have to google the Petzl page I'm afraid, I don't think it's one their site anymore, but you can find screenshots etc.

[@InfinityMediaAU]

Hi Jez, another informative video once again. Do you have any advice/video on how to clean a cave/super overhung route when the typical trawling a route doesnt work? Ive been told to second the route and clean on the way up or even backjump each bolt and downclimb it?

[@benmace6865]

Typically seconding the route is the easiest way. Backjumping is also a good way if you're comfortable doing it and the bolt spacings allow it.

[@JBMountainSkills]

Seconding is one nice way. A leaver biner to help tram lining can work well too.

Great info, thanks. Can you recommend any multi pitch backpacks, maybe you have a video on that already? And if you don’t mind me asking but what kind of sunglasses you have I the video?

[@JBMountainSkills]

I'm a big fan of my Blue Ice Warthog, great pack. I've not mentioned it in a video yet properly, but will do at some point! The sunnies are SunGod Classics :)

[@antonisl8129]

Great video and mind-blowing tip with the prussik. Question: Which is the right orientation for the quick link in order not to unscrew ?

[@JBMountainSkills]

Glad you liked it. Normally you'd gravity load it, ie. tighten it downhill.

[@antonisl8129]

@@JBMountainSkills I thought so but in that case the rope will be in contact with the gate

[@johntatman9168]

Leaving a quick link with a tiny bit of anti seize (it takes just the slightest bit) will allow the next person to easily remove it.

[@tomdedaele1691]

Intro made me think i was watchin a Browney video 😅

[@jamesclark6257]

Looking at getting a pongoose. Any advice on length 700 vs 1000. Huge difference in length when extended but not much in price. Will the 700 always reach the first/next bolt? Any reason why I should pick one over the other?

[@JBMountainSkills]

Personally, if I could only have one clip stick, it'd be the longer one. The shorter one may be better for travelling and is a bit easier to carry up a route if you're clipsticking the whole thing.

[@fredvandemon]

Do you have any suggestions for bailing off a carrot bolted route as is common in parts of Australia? I suppose leaving a single bolt plate behind wouldn't be the worst thing

[@JBMountainSkills]

Never used them before I'm afraid!

[@bryanshedden5433]

Have you done a review of the blue ice bag you have on the video. Octopus I think it’s called. If not what do you think about it?

[@JBMountainSkills]

I mention it in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hmKQaohvf89kosk No hesitation in recommending it! As a cragging type bag it's really good. On offer at Outside currently too :) www.outside.co.uk/blue-ice-octopus-40l-turkish-blue.html

[@mikaelwerner1]

Thanks for a great video Jez, as always. Which one do you find most useful, the longer one (4,3m) or the standard (2,85m) ?

[@JBMountainSkills]

Absolute pleasure! I prefer the longer length myself...

[@jamesclark6257]

Did you get one? Which length did you go for? Any regrets or advice before I buy one

[@ashtontechhelp]

I notice that, instead of doing a stopper knot, you pass your tail back through the bottom loop of the figure 8. Has that been tested for strength / slippage at all? I would have thought that keeping the bottom loop open like that would allow the knot to slip somewhat.

[@2bfrank657]

I'm a bit worried about that last technique of tying the rope into a loop through two bolts. As far as i can tell, if the top bolt fails and your fall is arrested by a double strand of rope, that would effectively be a fall factor of 2. I guess that is still better than hitting the ground, but that would not always be a risk. Thoughts?

[@JBMountainSkills]

Would you rather a high factor fall, or to hit the ground..? That's the question I guess and I know my answer! If the top bolt did come out it wouldn't be a fall, because you're in hard to the bolt you're next to. If the bottom bolt came out, you'd fall a v small distance on to the top bolt via the rope. No high fall factor.

[@2bfrank657]

​​ ah, fixed to the lower bolt directly as well. Right you are, misunderstood the setup 👍

[@JBMountainSkills]

@@2bfrank657 👊

[@123amsterdan456]

15:05 i've done two oposing quickdraws, a bit tight on the bolt but I felt safer. I've done two oposing draws in very critical first bolts aswell, It is pretty much certainly safer, right?

[@TheGrumpyExplorer]

Maybe it's a daft question but would you recommend a certain brand, length and thickness of Prusik cord for the klamheist knot?

[@nathanwilson3185]

Would a downward facing ascender do the job of a prusik? I know you shouldn’t fall on teeth but I can’t understand the situation in my head

[@MattyDredge]

Are your comparisons with the beta against the original beta stick or the new version, the beta stick evo?

[@JBMountainSkills]

I own both versions, the comparisons are are pretty generic to the Beta Sticks.

[@chrismorris9396]

Another way to connect to a bolt instead of a lanyard could be a QuickDraw but replace the snap gates with lockers

[@sebastiantory-pratt1373]

How would you get the clip stick up to you if the rope is already running through some quickdraws?

[@Phoenixhunter157]

How would you carry the clip stick with you if you’re using it higher up on the route like you described. Thanks in advanced

[@JBMountainSkills]

Just clipped to the back of my harness.

[@FustFPV]

My way is a bit different. I just take the piece out and then take a fall, Then repeat at the next piece down. Each time is no different to taking a fall as your leading about to place a piece anyway.

[@frankwilliams5766]

I don't really understand the in-depth discussion re: lowering on a single bolt. The use of a prusik seems absolutely overkill. If you are worried the bolt will pop from a gentle lowering, how in the hell do you trust it to take a whip?

[@JBMountainSkills]

I don’t always! Even in a popular place like Chulilla I climbed a route last year, nice bolts to start, after a few bolts and up higher, they started to more resemble ring pulls! I’ve had similar happen in the popular area of the Aiguille Rouge. Not all bolted routes are equal.

[@frankwilliams5766]

@@JBMountainSkills Interesting! I mainly climb on granite (or popular crags) so I never really give bolt quality a second thought. I'd be super sketched if I encountered a dubious bolt while climbing. In any event, please don't interpret my comment as a negative one. There was a lot of good information in the video. Cheers.

[@mrnosy1]

I don't understand the point of the knot at 16:30. Can someone explain this to me? If the bolt fails that you've got your lanyard on, you've still got the top bolt. What's the point of the knot then? Does this somehow decrease the distance you fall? I don't see how?

[@starguy821]

I’ve stick clipped my way up hard routes just so I can get on them. No shame and idc if I have no business on them.

[@rasenmaher9629]

What about abseiling through a bolt? At least when there's no sharp edges on it?

[@patrickhazlehurst8472]

The very question I was going to ask. Eco-anchors seem OK but you couldn't do it off a Petzl hanger as you've implied.

[@rasenmaher9629]

@@patrickhazlehurst8472 in my area it's quite common but the bolts here work well for it, just wandering if there's a reason it wasn't mentioned.

[@Simon-kx6yr]

I also like to do that. Even from Petzl Hangers. If you can thread your rope through, there is no rope drag over the edge while having load on the rope...

[@JBMountainSkills]

Definitely an option. I didn't include as involves coming off belay and having a suitable belay device or big hms.

[@johnellis8431]

I'm interested in the prussic idea. Does the kleimheist have to go a certain way around to bite? Is that why Petzl suggest the French prussic so it works either way round?

[@Alyogyne1]

In the Petzl diagram it looks like they have shown a prussic hitch, not a French prussic hitch (=autoblock). The French prussic hitch will slide when you grab it (even after it has been loaded), so not a good choice in this instance. The regular prussic hitch is symmetrical, so will grab equally well in either direction and not slide easily (or at all?) if you grab it after it has been loaded. I'm not sure about the directionality of the klemheist - it's certainly not symmetrical, so something to check.

[@vbregier]

@@Alyogyne1 klemheist is unidirectional (and done in wrong direction in this video…) That’s why Petzl suggests prussik : it is bidirectional, so you cannot do it wrong. Which is especially important in stressful situations, that are probably not practised a lot.

[@BenBlore-p8c]

What crag are you at for this please !?

[@JBMountainSkills]

Truffle Hunter area, Vivian Quarry

[@alecbaker1126]

Have you tried using a grigri threaded backwards rather than a prussik?

[@JBMountainSkills]

I haven't, no.

[@vbregier]

13:10 you made your kleimheist in wrong direction ! If your top bolt fails, you want it to lock on lower side of the rope, so it needs to be done in reverse direction than usual. That’s why it’s better to do a prussik in this situation : it is bidirectional, so no risk to do it in wrong direction. Whereas kleimheist only locks in one direction. And a prussik locks really well too.

[@JBMountainSkills]

A classic may be better, but a klemheist does work either direction. It actually has a different name, that escapes me.

[@martycomiskey6168]

@@JBMountainSkills - hedden knot is the upside down klemheist

[@vbregier]

@@JBMountainSkills Interesting, I did learn that klemheist is unidirectional. It actually says it on french version of wikipedia page (it’s the one called «Machard français» in french) fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C5%93ud_de_Machard English version does not mention directionality… I will definitely try the upside down version, I never tested it ! edit : I did find english page that also claims that klemheist is unidirectional : « Unlike the standard prusik, however, the Klemheist can be tied with webbing or cord and is uni-directional, meaning it can only be loaded by a pull from one direction. For this reason, it’s crucial to pay close attention to how you tie this hitch, making sure you set it to load on the rope from the proper direction. » [mojagear.com/3-friction-hitches-every-climber-know-use-tie-auto-block-prusik-klemheist/] So this belief seems to be widespread…

[@JPJeppe]

Hmm, the bight is from the top and going through the eye on the bottom. That is a correct klemheist right? It just looks confusing and his hand is hiding it at some point

[@bbss4048]

16:23 I don't understand how you're attached to two bolts after tying in the rope below u.

[@YannSimon]

Don't forget that your life is much more worth than quickdraws, even expensive ones.

[@filda2005]

other options: is to leave the route with rope and quickdraws in place, camp on place, or come back day later. Just use bolt to put the rope into and absail on it. Find a friend who can climb it. Put in a cam, nut, rope knot as temporary bolt to climb a higher bolt. Put in a fix gear and damage the rock and route. Try lower yourself, then travers and find easier way up.

[@edmunek]

bolt and abseil on it?.... 😕

[@TonySpinach]

One piece of kit that nobody really knows about is the tepet firefly. I attach that to the top draw and tie a prusik with 5mm tech cord to the belayers side of the rope attched to my belay loop just incase the top draw pops the prusik will catch and catch you at the closest draw you haven't cleaned yet. Once you're on the ground you only have the one draw at the top of the route and you pull the pull cord of the firefly and your draw safely comes off no problem. (Only works for solid gate draws because wire gates always get nose hooked on the bolt) I've used it many times and I always get weird looks when i use it because nobody knows what it is hahaha. Great niche piece of kit that can really come in handy for sport climbers trying to push thair grade! Here's a demo vid of it below... kzbin.info/www/bejne/b3-tqaCLfcqIrKc

[@JBMountainSkills]

I'm guessing you can't get them any more? I looked online but their website doesn't work and their social media is inactive.

[@TonySpinach]

@@JBMountainSkills Oh dang I just did the same and you’re right :( That’s a shame, I wish more people had one 😥

[@janegallagher1842]

vay.fyi great

[@adventureswithfrodo2721]

Usually issnt the clipstick just used on the first bolt off the ground. No one I know uses one and I relly doubt if anyone carrys one off the ground. This is a very lame video.

[@JBMountainSkills]

Hahahaha, a ton of people use them on routes, for various reasons. I've certainly not climbed all over the world but regularly see them used on routes in the countries I do and have sport climbed in.