Is The Sumo Deadlift Cheating? (Response To CBum)

Is it?
All my science-based training programs: jeffnippard.com
Get my Ultimate Guide To Body Recomposition here:
shop.jeffnippa...
If you're still in your first 1-2 years of lifting, I strongly recommend running my Fundamentals Program: shop.jeffnippa...
-------------------------------
Help SUPPORT the channel by:
1. Trying one of my training programs: → www.jeffnippard...
2. Checking out what my sponsors have to offer:
▹ MASS (Monthly Research Review)
‣
‣ Only $25/month (pre-paid yearly)
▹ PEScience Supplements
‣ www.PEScience.com
‣ Use discount code JEFF to save $$
▹ RISE Training Gear and Sportwear
‣ rise.ca/jeff
‣ Use discount code JEFF to save 10%
The shirt, shorts and belt I'm wearing in this video can be found through this affiliate link. I earn a commission when you shop through the link below:
rise.ca/jeff
-------------------------------
In this video I'm covering the most common arguments for why the sumo deadlift is cheating and seeing if they hold up against the scientific evidence. People will often point to range of motion as the main reason for why conventional is superior. We will also look at what the science says about the biomechanical and muscle activation differences between conventional and sumo and look at some powerlifting examples from IPF Worlds.
-------------------------------
Sources:
Sources:
IPF Rulebook:
www.powerlifti...
Powerlifting Data:
/ thestrengthathlete
ROM:
www.massmember...
Biomechanics:
pubmed.ncbi.nl...
EMG Research:
pubmed.ncbi.nl...
Filmed by Jeff Nippard, Big 3 Media & Omar Isuf
Edited by Jeff Nippard using Final Cut Pro
-------------------------------
Follow me on social media:
INSTAGRAM ‣ / jeffnippard
SNAPCHAT ‣ / jeffnippard
FACEBOOK ‣ / jeffnippard
TWITTER ‣ / jeffnippard
PODCAST ‣ The Jeff Nippard Podcast on iTunes and Stitcher
-------------------------------
About me: I'm a Canadian natural pro bodybuilder and internationally-qualified powerlifter with a BSc in biochemistry/chemistry and a passion for science. I've been training for 12 years drug-free. I'm 5'5 and fluctuate between 160 lbs (lean) and 180 lbs (bulked).
-------------------------------
Disclaimers: Jeff Nippard is not a doctor or a medical professional. Always consult a physician before starting any exercise program. Use of this information is strictly at your own risk. Jeff Nippard will not assume any liability for direct or indirect losses or damages that may result from the use of information contained in this video including but not limited to economic loss, injury, illness or death.
For Chris Bumstead's Lawyer: Yes, Cbum is still in my basement. I'm sure we can work this out. Call me.

[@ChrisBumstead]

2:42 "Why would the majority of lifters choose not to use it?" Well because it's cheating... duh

[@claudiamarianidamato9499]

😂👍🏽👍🏽

[@stevendaily3695]

Straight up don’t tell me do you really want to love me forever oh oh oh

[@Tanmay.s689]

xd

[@managingarkreactors9339]

The biggest bum of them all, Chris.

[@bestdocincanada6620]

U look good, maybe U will could become a IFBB Pro one day.

[@BackGuy]

Never before have I ever seen or heard something as menacing as Jeff whistling the Harry Potter theme

[@dr.snipes9410]

Creepy shit

[@RiseOfPhoenyx]

Beautiful.

[@ermmmmm9207]

sup sexy man 😘

[@tiwuinza]

Excuse me , what did you say? I don't speak smol back

[@TheRandomR00ster]

Back Guy? More like Guy, cause no back ❤

[@chibiraptor]

The random tall guy should start a KZbin channel imo

[@skiesthatroar5402]

naw he doesnt even look like he lifts when he has a shirt on, he probably has the worst genetics of any body builder

[@dragan176]

Nah, it would never be good

[@ivanbobanovic]

@@dragan176 bro

[@tjxwheel7812]

@@ivanbobanovic he’s joking ofc

[@Arkasic]

@@ivanbobanovic bro

[@mdmjeremiah]

"Some random tall guy." Your delivery on this is comedy gold.

[@buffkangaroodog]

I want Will to become the Stan lee of fitness videos now

[@rutvijsonawane8597]

... and proceeds to give him the money...!! 😂😂😂😂

[@brycebarker1582]

Lol, love the Will cameo

[@jaredserrano6126]

Frrr, that's no random!

[@austenlawson5993]

Jeff no longer makes fitness “videos”. He has now transcended to fitness cinema. Proud of you, Jeff.

[@naturallywilde]

I was thinking….”Jeff Nippard Studio” or “Nippard Film” would be appropriate names for the new endeavor.

[@AlexAnteroLammikko]

@@naturallywilde Nipp films

[@roywempor8395]

​@@AlexAnteroLammikko nipplestudio

[@skibidibap8523]

☝️🤓

[@omgurheadsgone]

Lmao at the Will Tenny random tall guy cameo at the gym.

[@leokal457]

That random guy has some good camera presence. He should start a youtube channel

[@duncanmill8977]

@@leokal457 yeah looks like he'd be great doing a diet based one

[@ChamathEdi]

Maybe he will even get sponsored to give 10% off supplement

[@hizzle8393]

@@ChamathEdi i think he could potentially hit 1 million subscribers at some point in the future too

[@df-tp5kb]

@@ChamathEdi tenny10 for 10% 0ff?

[@roty9509]

I’m 6’4” with long femurs. Traditional deadlifts suck for me, so I primarily do sumo. I also have a weaker lower back (something I’m working on), so the sumo deadlift helps me strengthen my legs more before my back fatigues. Just do what works best for your body, and stay in your lane.

[@RatanSur]

I think I’m in the same situation! How’s your hamstring flexibility? I think that is also a reason why sumo is more comfortable for me even though I’m 6’3”. Hard to not round my lower back with conventional

[@roty9509]

@@RatanSur my hamstrings are way more flexible than they used to be. When I first started lifting, my hamstrings were consistently tight and were usually the first muscles to fatigue when squatting and deadlifting. I worked on some mobility exercises with my personal trainer that have helped me strengthen my hamstrings so that they aren’t the first muscles to fatigue anymore.

[@_.Dave._]

Sumo deadlifts won't help you strengthen your back. That's like the guys that lock there arms at right angles while doing curls with enormous delts saying their hitting their biceps,.. nope.

[@roty9509]

@@_.Dave._ never said sumo deadlifts help with your back. Just stated I’m also working on strengthening my back.

[@skjetnis]

6’5" with long ass legs. I feel it more in the legs when I do sumo, but I prefer conventional due to more strengthening of my back

[@TheChosenOne2023]

That intro made me laugh WAY harder than it should have 😂 We need more Evil Jeff

[@wileecoyote5749]

actually we don't

[@angelvtodo]

@@wileecoyote5749 yeah. we do.

[@Wazeirmo]

@@wileecoyote5749 shut up

[@akrammakmouk6795]

Psycho Jeff sounds better :p

[@JackgarPrime]

Another character added to the roster of Jeffs!

[@OmarIsuf]

Something tells me Chris is gonna look really catabolic this year at the Olympia…

[@user-xs4rm1ti8f]

Not everyone deadlifts

[@jdada7067]

Just like Omar's calves

[@Max78912]

@@user-xs4rm1ti8f has nothing to do with what he was saying lol

[@cjh_]

@@Max78912 lmao facts whats this guy on about xD

[@kingofdeath5600]

Omar you're still alive!! Get back to your youtube videos... they are missed.

[@Jayaldrich26]

This is interesting because I'm 6'1. I noticed when I pull sumo, I actually get better glute activation. Which makes sense when you compared the knee range of motion, and how sumo is similar to full squat, and conventional is better compared to half squat. This difference is why I alternate sumo and conventional every other week. Even though the EMG results say there's no difference. I def feel the difference in my post workout soreness.

[@albert4324]

Same with me

[@ILikeExoticStuff]

Same here. My conventional moves really fast due to my long arms and legs. No matter how hard I try to squat low, my hamstrings and glutes take over and yank the weight. Sumo is heavy as hell.

[@himeshsinghshishodiya]

Ahh, you gave me a simple but great way to include both of them without increasing the length of my sessions. Thanks, man. Have a great day!

[@BobbyxZx]

you have realized the truth, don't listen to the dipshts that say to skip it, they're only in the gym for the glamor muscles, they're not even athletes. sumo dl and squats are game changers for hip mobility and therefore give strength gains no other lifts can. you're not imagining the pump being different, it's the same for me. do your sumo squats ass to grass and then tell me there's no difference. narrow stance focuses on thighs, wide stance focuses on hips. these tards have no idea about hip strength and therefore have (highly) incomplete strength. but they're only here for the glamor muscles and want to spend 2 hour laying down on a bench... losers, every last one of them.

[@Sumnerstrain]

i just pull sumo cause my back hurts😂

[@jillianhamilton5509]

The whole "sumo is cheating" thing always seemed so bizarre to me. When I was competing as a 117 lb woman, I pulled conventional because it felt way easier for me than sumo. That hammered home for me that it is really about leverages and the relative proportions of your limbs. I just think the coolest part is seeing how heavy a thing you can pick up off the ground and set down again. If the lifter isn't risking injury, I think it's silly to get caught up in which stance/grip/etc they're using.

[@JaegerMeister808]

People will justify any ridiculous opinion they have just to feel superior to someone else.

[@user-Zachary123]

​@user-op8lh8nr8ilol😂

[@jakevoe]

@user-op8lh8nr8icringe

[@not_hehe__]

@user-op8lh8nr8i go outside incel

[@s.m.pravin9738]

That's because sumo technique has a learning curve. Please learn sumo and i guarantee you'll pull a lot more

[@JeffNippard]

Is it?

[@mvd3775]

No

[@nikolajwulff4332]

Nah

[@goncalobarbosa110]

Yes

[@zay7jasssecondaccount415]

Yess

[@rhitamdutta1996]

Perhaps

[@Xavierpng]

One of your best videos yet- the comedy, the content, the Will Tenny- a true masterpiece. Thank you Jeff for sharing this with us.

[@furjin9805]

Random tall dude 🤣

[@tarantulamantis5189]

I tought I was hallucinating when Will showed up😂

[@Krahnin]

I discovered Will recently, compared to Jeff. Was hilarious seeing him show up!

[@TheAlexJimenez]

@@tarantulamantis5189 right. I forgot whose video I was watching for a moment.

[@minerobloxplayer2432]

ignore this comment hes just trying to get views

[@KAJlogic]

5:58 - "reduction in range of motion. doesn't nessasarily equal easier because they can add more weight" That is exactly what easier means?

[@Channel0.7]

You covered and emphasised more on “range of motion” which is still the key however you missed another key point, “stability” in the stance/position which combined with the range of motion contributes significantly to the “ease” of lifting more in Sumo than Conventional. Sumo’s stance/position is in a tripod fashion which offers significantly more stability overall in lifting than Conventional which significantly enhances overall lifting stability compared to the Conventional style. This combined stability, along with an emphasised range of motion, plays a pivotal role in enabling the ease of lifting heavier weights in the Sumo deadlift.

[@r0bz0rly]

i'm a tall guy with decently long arms and legs, and i am dogshit at sumo and can only lift a fraction compared to conventional. definitely depends on the body type and preference.

[@bird3179]

That’s because your technique is ass. You have more of a reason to pull sumo if you are taller not because you are short. Sumo is cheating if you call it a “Deadlift”

[@MrYettiCrush]

@@JSAF0 lmao

[@longdongmc.johnson]

same here, i started out trying to sumo lift, and it puts too much strain on the inner part of my upper legs. you know, the part right next to my nutsack. dont know the name, this is not my first language. i switched to lifting conventional in fear of tearing the nutsack bordering tendons.

[@SurfNturfz]

@@longdongmc.johnson your groin haha

[@Glebka13]

@@longdongmc.johnson just add some stretching of these areas to ur routine. As 4 me I'm 2m tall and its much easier and safer for me doing sumo cuz in conventional I don't have enough space to do it with full comfort. Anyway, it just works 4 me. Good luck!

[@tookiejones9765]

That walk over to the computer, with the whistle... Nailed that! lol

[@DipankarGhosh007]

Harry potter theme

[@TitanFM]

Had been giggling through the intro, then sitting down at the computer and a sigh into his usual video intro chipper voice 'Is the sumo deadlift cheating' made me burst out laughing

[@tookiejones9765]

@@TitanFM That's the moment! I cracked up too. Comedy gold!

[@AlphaRabbbit]

An important factor that most people don't consider, that I'm glad you pointed out, is the variance in biomechanics from person to person. Sumo can be more of a "squat" for some people.

[@nottheone582]

I have long femurs so I def have to get deep into hips to set up for sumo. but I have such long arms that it also greatly shortens the length of pull for me by about 4" vs conventional. so it's a trade-off

[@ChiliCheeseD0g]

@@nottheone582 The visual I have of a person with abnormally long femurs and abnormally long arms makes me wonder if Dr. Frankenstein built you. Or you could just say that you're tall?

[@Eth77930]

I do believe sumo is easier (allows you to pull more) - if we somehow included person's height into his starting point. If someone who is 6'6'' would pull from 12 inches and someone who is 5'6'' would pull from 10, we might see more balanced distribution between weight classes. The lower weight class pulls sumo, because they are typically shorter people, for whom it is easier to get low enough to proper sumo position. For me (6'1'') sumo feels easier to lift, but at the same time I struggle to get low enough with knees properly out (due to long legs, long torso and short arms) - my knees are too high from the ground, and get in the way of the barbell.

[@Simon-talks]

Berbell

[@makimoko]

I have relatively long femurs and short torso and conventional makes me feel I have to bend over myself just to grab the bar. With sumo, torso is much more vertical and am much stronger that way. A friend with opposite proportions is better with conventional.

[@Orang3_fatty24]

Loved seeing my favorite random tall guy will Tennyson on this video😂

[@Vic-js2mh]

I love how calls will Tennyson a random tall guy

[@chrisbermudez6677]

In not even going to lie, your comparisons of a short grip bench and short grip lat pulldown made PERFECT sense when compared to conventional vs sumo. I really never thought of it in that way, damn good work as always Jeff!

[@AthleticAlfa]

Yes i like that point too

[@ncdozer3103]

@@TheArchm due to humans not being cranes lmao, our levers become less functional at certain angles

[@monkeyxpwner]

@@TheArchm saying that a shorter ROM is automatically easier shows that they know nothing about lifting, so I don’t even take them seriously

[@nottheone582]

yes also thought that was a great analogy. also hitting the hard parts of the lift both ways

[@ClassicTor]

@@TheArchm bcs its uncomfortsble asf if you do it wide it becomes harder bcs the motion doenstt work well for your body

[@tam1742]

Jeff and Will in the same video is something that I didn’t expect but I’m glad it happened.👌🏽👌🏽

[@fittysit-tea5287]

You mean random tall guy. Don't get confused.

[@AMaz-zx9sj]

Whats Will channel in youtube?

[@Grimmjeaux]

@@AMaz-zx9sj Will Tennyson

[@arranmacdonald6897]

I died when he started whistling Harry Potter in the intro

[@wompastompa3692]

"My sumo range of motion is 15% shorter, but I also lift about 15% more weight." Work is force times distance. Assuming your conventional RoM (d) and weight (F) are both 1, the work you do is 1 E. For sumo, you'd be .85 d × 1.15 F = 0.9775 E. So for 2.25% less work, you get a 15% bigger number. I'm not sorry, but how is this NOT cheating? In a meet, the only number that matters is the weight that goes up, not what percentage of total exertion you think you're lifting at. If we're in a meet and you pull 225 at 75% effort and I pull 225 at 99.999% effort, guess what? We tie.

[@HkFinn83]

Cheating the laws of biomechanics and physics, good, cheating laws of the sport, bad. Like Bill Clinton said, if you’re not cheating you’re not trying

[@TheRealGuywithoutaMustache]

Poor Cbum, saying sumo is cheating was the equivalent to hurting John Wick’s dog

[@rabitof5248]

no range of motion no dog alive

[@stevend481]

He killed his career on this comment

[@arthurwheeler7400]

@@stevend481 can’t really kill your career when you’re the 3 time champ and regarded as a god

[@osteomalacia2233]

3 time olympia champion

[@hemant1176]

@@stevend481 as if

[@Protecterofnyc]

Let’s all take a moment to process Jeff has a “life sized” cut out of Cbum Que Dexter laboratory and Einstein scene

[@tigerskone2945]

What do you think he gets off too?

[@strengthoveraesthetics239]

wdym thats cbum himself

[@-Azure.EXE-]

What... You don't?

[@Zamkis]

The best part is spotting it randomly showing up in the background of some of the gym clips like 7:30

[@jbosborne1770]

I'm wondering if main reason the heavier (and generally taller) lifters in your data don't prefer sumo is because the available space for foot placement remains constant regardless of height, which would reduce the advantage for those taller lifters. Basically, the available width between the plates on the barbell is the same if you're 5' or 7' tall. That would also line up with the reduced difference in vertical movement between the two approaches for taller lifters compared to the shorter lifters. Anyway, that seemed like a reasonable explanation that I didn't noticed being called out in the video. So maybe Chris is right if you are comparing the movements for shorter lifters instead of an across the board advantage.

[@trispyfrispy5778]

I can't even do conventional deadlifts because I have really deep hip sockets... I was so shattered but after actually doing sumos, I fell in love with em! Mostly because of how good they feel, it was even therapeutic to all that hip and back pain I got from conventional deadlifts! Now I'm pain free! Weeeee!

[@toystroy7996]

That "weeee!" part wat so adorable I like it it made me smile a bit tehe 🤭

[@Viking_Raven]

From now on I'll exclusively refer to Will as a "Random tall guy" everywhere.

[@miderwr9363]

"at my gym" too

[@coldshivery]

Haha

[@mrdereksutton]

I think this is my favorite video you've ever done, the comedy was on point lol. Definitely do more videos with Will...I mean the random stranger

[@manuelkismejia4253]

@@Alex-Aviation huh?

[@josephpaoo4889]

Comedy was 😂😂😂🔥🔥 he needs to do more it’s a niche market

[@vids595]

Adding weight to make up for reduce ROM is fine for exercise, but is only an admittance that in competition, sumo should be considered a different lift.

[@MariMartinsPRO]

Amazing content Jeff, still trying to figure out how you brought Chris to the gym tho 😂 … I always felt frustrated for feeling that conventional deadlift’s was so much harder for me than sumo, I always felt a lot of pressure in the back and much harder to progress.. It all makes more sense now. Thank you for that

[@mohammedbarakat6401]

Jeff is the science geek of the fitness community

[@dantehedge8414]

He is the obi wan to Mpmd's darth vader.

[@Killerkraft975]

if you didn't know about his youtube you'd think this guy is an absolute gym bro but then you realise its the exact opposite

[@LowTide941]

He’s Han Swolo

[@Withinreasonandlogic]

@@LowTide941 yo, that was so damn good.

[@ognjen1825]

Literally!

[@joshuasharrock466]

He just paid some random tall dude at the gym that just happened to look like Will Tennyson to compare sumo to conventional.. That was the first hard laugh of the day Jeff thank you

[@jkfang]

This got me thinking, why are all the fitness KZbinrs I watch Canadian.

[@terminate_06]

@@jkfang they’re just more entertaining

[@fast.food.ninjalarry954]

The way you and Will showed sumo in this video is actually respectable, when people say is cheating they mean when bar doesnt even go past the knees.

[@TEHBILB]

the Chris cutout judging Jeff from afar while he’s “cheating” on the bench press and lat pulldown, great touch

[@lukemarlowe6930]

I laughed so hard when he put the kiwi in Chris mouth 😂😂😂 “Eat some carbs Chris. You look catabolic.” ☠️

[@markbrouk7857]

Me too I was dying lol 😂

[@joditio3024]

☠️☠️☠️

[@RoeeNegbyDaHot]

After watching this video I've come to the educated, science-based conclusion that conventional is cheating. Thank you Jeff!

[@AMaz-zx9sj]

🤣🤣🤣

[@TheMrpiaz]

HAHAHAHAHAH

[@sarah-anneperry6932]

Hahahhaha good one my dude

[@LuisMartinez-gg1ck]

😂😂😂😂 LMAOO I agree 100 percent

[@isaiya6799]

Cope

[@Aos_Sidhe]

Having Will show up was dope lmao. "Random tall guy at my gym" lmao

[@carazy123_]

Biting directly into a kiwi was so terrifying I had to pause the vid

[@dandy813]

More content like this, hilarious AND presenting the facts. You’re the best Jeff!

[@tysamurai6036]

Second this

[@dave82au]

"Shorter range of motion doesn't equal easier, because lifters can offset any reduction in ROM with an increase in weight." True, but this is also why people consider it cheating!

[@sigma7511]

"I have a 15% decrease in ROM with a 15% increase in weight" literally right there is why ya know. Totally agree with you!

[@emmang2010]

Dude thank you. Like did no one notice that he literally says you then use more load to offset the decrease in ROM? This is exactly why people say it's cheating. It would appear, based on this video, that for every single person, sumo is not always going to be easier. But for those that can do both relatively equally, they will find they can lift more weight with sumo likely do to this range of motion decrease.

[@zekicaneksi]

ALSO, with sumo, you can abuse your limb lenghts MUCH MORE. some people lift the weight a few inches and its done for them with sumo.

[@nishanalfred]

@@inmyhead00 I mean, arching and using a wide grip can be considered cheating one day. There should be limits to how wide you can go, as 1 inch ROM and calling it a bench is very different to the standard bench press that most people do.

[@eli-eli1]

exactly

[@247hustlerr]

Blown away by another video of yours. Thanks for producing these extreme high quality informative videos with a dash of your humor too.

[@Lobi10879]

As 5’4 male, sumo definitely feels more comfortable for me, but I mix in the 2 to workout my back with conventional and glutes with sumo.

[@sourobhdas1235]

Will Tennyson = random tall guy at the gym 😂😂 The editing, the writing, the comedy, everything is so good. The fact that you do it all yourself is unbelievable. You are the gold standard in KZbin fitness content. Period.

[@lampros1112]

5:35 "i paid a random tall guy" yes indeed a very "random" one 😂😂. That cracked me up. And the exchange afterwards as well!

[@SantoVacio]

Will 😩

[@keithwagner5994]

Can we talk about how Jeff is an incredible actor 😂

[@Weltall600]

If people did Sumo like you, people might not be so critical, but we see people damn near doing splits during deadlifts, acting like they accomplished something.

[@vimanshu]

Man! jeff just outdid himself. From whistling the harry potter theme to using will as a random tall guy and ending the video with cbum classic "what is up... KZbin" and obviously proving his science backed claims. This was so much fun ✨🔥

[@ancientcolors]

Don’t forget cbum silently watching in some of the clips

[@Roulette55]

He can lift 15% heavier while doing sumos 🤔🤔🤔 interesting

[@MrChaydelarosa]

I had some lower back issues in the past and after that using sumo positions feels just more safe for me and my lower back 🙃

[@tsu1068]

same brother. although it took me a few months to adjust my feet position in sumo to lessen hip pain. my back feels safer in sumo and lowerback soreness after deadlifts gladly dont exist anymore.

[@danielshook8502]

@@tsu1068 try using a hexbar

[@fallible4]

@@tsu1068 What did you do to lessen the hip pain? I am currently having the exact same problem.

[@nottheone582]

same. i lifted conventional until I blew up my L4/L5. now its sumo for me, I find it more upright, less stress on lower back

[@nicolarossi8728]

Probabilmente sbagli la tecnica nel conventional

[@raygunner4970]

"I payed a random tall guy at my gym" Will: Am I a joke to you?

[@proto_64_x]

It seems like we wont talk about the distance between the hip and the bar today, but that's what I consider the most important part. Legs are straighter, the bar is closer to the hip, and the torso is also straighter, what makes it faster to get into a locking position with the bar already lifted. In the end, it's an advantage, and the difference in range of motion is not in the bar movement, it is in fact in the angle your legs make with your torso measuring from the hip and taking into account also the knees. Let's say your legs and torso must reach 180º, yes? That would be standing straight, but the sumo stance starts with your torso/leg angle at almost 90º already, so you'll only have to move another 90º to get the 180º, and for your leg/calves, with sumo it is already over 100º, so you has to move a lot less. Now for conventional, your back have to travel a lot more. The hip/leg angle can even be lower than 45º, so you have to end up rotating your hip up to 135º, and your leg/calves never gets over 90º, in fact it extends from 45º to 90º, which leads to a range of movement of 90º to 135º. Also, another thing to take into account, is that the axis of main rotation, which would be your hip, is far closer to the line of movement of the bar, what makes it easier to lift, the same as grabbing a bar from one end, and adding a brick with tape to add wheight, the longer it is from the end you are holding, the more difficult it'll be to lift. So, is sumo cheating? Well, cheating or not, it's easier, but it will depend on your height. If you legs can't fit into the standard barbell length while holding a good sumo stance, it's pointless. My resolution? Instead of just one lift, make it two, one category for conventional, and another for sumo. Force lifters to train both and nobody will complain because it will be normalized to have both PRs.

[@finallychangedthis]

Quality video Jeff, loved the Will and Chris cameos and everything was explained well! People really put their entire identity into which stance we pick a bar up with, so it’s nice to apply some good science and biomechanics to the debate

[@garrettsweaney9394]

Lol. I thought the "Random guy at the gym" looked familiar.

[@jaylebowski9745]

@@garrettsweaney9394 yea I would love to see a collab between them!

[@elijahcraig3477]

As a 6'1" guy with a 6'5" wingspan, I feel that conventional suits my body type more. My arms hang too low when my arms are apart and it feels like I am skipping part of the lift. I'm torn on if sumo and conventional should be separate lifts, given their slight mechanical differences. It varies so much person to person.

[@Siberius-]

The video seemed to make it pretty clear that there's really not much difference. Very much the same lift, just with different emphasis in not many ways.

[@donnyinfinity]

@@Siberius- but in reality there's a hell lot of difference. In case of me i can lift more in sumo but I'm a conventional lifter. And my height is 6 feet. Nothing to do with height and weight. Clearly the range of motion is less in sumo but the sumo guys won't accept that fact 😂

[@Siberius-]

​@@donnyinfinity - The next day I was thinking about that comment I left and was gonna find it to edit it a bit, but screw that. So I'm glad you replied lol. I was going to add that while it is the same lift, and only has somewhat minor emphasis differences, that can still make each lift feel very different to do, and so powerlifting should ideally probably have lifters do both lifts and then combine the total number. They're different enough, that it's weird to have competitors do only one or the other. As far as your comment goes, that's you. Plenty of others can't lift more when they do sumo. The range of motion (knee flexion) for sumo is MORE than conventional. It's just that the bar doesn't travel as much, which is not what range of motion is.

[@vicnad92]

As a short torso & long legs 5"7 guy, sumo works so much better with my anatomy.

[@duolingoowl8294]

@@vicnad92 same lol, sumo lets me deadlift without breaking my back

[@user-or6qv7sk1l]

I have a hypothesis on this. With the conventional DL, the heavier you get, you get more support from the pressure between the thighs and the abdomen. This makes it easier to start the weight moving from the bottom of the lift. Just like doing leg press with really narrow stance, it makes it alot easier to stop the weight at the bottom. Any opinions on this? And about the cheating part, conventional and sumo are just different movements. I don't see how one gets called out as cheating.

[@richtheunstable3359]

Different movement you say. If it's a different movement then it shouldn't be used?

[@schmui]

"I just don't understand how people call dribbling the ball with their feet at a basketball game cheating. It's just different sports and rule sets 😐🤷" You're just giving us good examples for why there should be seperate events - conventional and sumo.

[@jabigchad1749]

@@schmui more like dribbling with your palm vs with fingers. But everyone has their own opinion

[@othonielmolina]

I’ve always looked at both of these exercises as different exercises just like narrow grip lat pull downs and wide grip lat pull downs. I just use whichever feels best for me regardless of muscle activation. Due to my leverages I cannot comfortably squat or deadlift with a narrow stance since my hips start internally rotating as my knees flex during the eccentric so I tend to use wider stances in both squats and deadlifts which just feels much better for me.

[@DeDieuAntique]

Someone with an actual brain. You are awarded all of the points.

[@othonielmolina]

@@DeDieuAntique hahahaha thank you

[@elimsyldog4858]

Sumo is cheating

[@trevorhaeberle3982]

I think the same thing. It seems obvious. It’s a different exercise

[@user-ue9fo2ud2p]

Exactly, they are different exercises and it doesn't make sense to use them interchangeably when comparing strength

[@rty08]

"Some people say deadlifts are for leg day, some people say deadlifts are for back day, I say they're for another day." - Dom Mazetti

[@MrMAITRAY]

“You look catabolic” The line hits like a dagger ..

[@capyboi-776]

"Random tall guy" fucking love it

[@elikebudi]

I really like the graphic designs you’re using in charts or in showing significant points in your fitness movements. Overall, your videos are fun to watch and teaching.

[@MM-MLT]

*animation

[@charleswajda-gotwals3690]

Bro going through a whole scientific analysis to explain why the lift that gives him +15% PR on the deadlift is actually super fair and balanced.

[@drewster1o1]

Exactly, he knows its cheating but just didn't want to piss off his subscriber base lol

[@marquistraylor1255]

Recently I’ve been doing conventional on back days and sumo as my compound on leg days to really focus in on my glutes and hammies. Can confirm their both freaking hard 😂

[@YoungJohnHolmes]

Do you get less glute/hamstring activity when you do conventional? I've never tried sumo, only RDLs to hit my hamstrings more. Conventional always blows up my glutes.

[@Brian-bk3fz]

Both are different, and both have more emphasis on different muscles. I’ve been doing conventional deadlifts for years , recently I’ve switched to sumo to diversify my training. I’ve noticed with sumo , your adductors, abductors, glute medius glute minimus, quads and calves are wayyyyyy more involved

[@whoissimona7257]

Exactly, they are just different. That's why you'll see a lot of girls preferring sumo, to focus on glutes. Personally, I can lift more with conventional deadlifts, but still do sumo deadlifts more often to train glutes.

[@chrisperez2369]

Yep. Then do squats!. Conventional deadlifts are designed to hit the other areas

[@batman-sr2px]

Which one puts more stress on rotstor cuff scapula muscles?

[@Brian-bk3fz]

@@batman-sr2px It feels like Sumos put more stress on the scapula. However I use double over hand grip you might be able to relieve some pressure off of the scapula with a hook grip

[@mattbalfe2983]

@@chrisperez2369 Squats and conventional deadlifts don't activate glute meds and mins at all, of course you can isolation for both but I find involving them in a big compound movement is beneficial.

[@joelmarr6590]

Over my lifting career i've gone from 133lbs to 195lbs and at no point was sumo comfortable to me and that's what it all came down to, what feels right.

[@alexwenger9655]

No it doesn't these lifts need to be standardized for the sake of competiton. You can't compare a sumo deadlifter to a conventional deadlifter in competition because they are different lifts. That shouldn't be a thing in a competitive sport.

[@talonwoolsey3]

@@alexwenger9655 Do the same for the remaining two lifts and then your argument is valid and logical. But until then, conventional deadlifting is cheating and only snatch grip deadlifts are the true test of hip hinging strength lmao

[@alexwenger9655]

@@talonwoolsey3 sound good to me. We've got people folding themselves in half to bench press and people doing ultra wide squat stances to reduce rom. It's rediculous

[@basicmeme1040]

@@alexwenger9655 he straight up explained how similar they are

[@basicmeme1040]

@@alexwenger9655 short and and short arm people yeah it's bullshit Long Arm and long legs people it's respectable

[@postalpancho]

I’m 5’7” 180lb and I like doing both sumo and conventional because how they hit differently. Sumo hits the gluts better and conventional hits the low back. I like the strength benefits of both. I don’t consider either of them cheating just like I do alternate versions of the same lift. I do wide grip and close grip lat pull because we all know they hit different.

[@josbon9228]

Bleh people just like to get to competitive, in a perfect world people would think like you.😅

[@dead-x1491]

same i do sumo on first leg day and conventional on back day or on the second leg day

[@Raul-pg1pf]

Sir "adjusting the weight" when pulling sumo it's literally the whole point of people calling it cheating

[@rodolfomagdaleno1663]

The Intro is just what we expected 🔥 Nippard Supremacy

[@JJ-qw4ey]

As a intermediate, the transition to sumo has meant my form has not only become more consistent, but also heavier and safer. Conventional just stresses my hips and makes me want to use my back more, which became an issue at higher weights resulting in worse form. I'm 6'3, 105kg.

[@JustBrandonLim]

For me, 1.8m, 75kg, I started off with sumo first because my friends were mostly doing sumo, I hit a PR of 160kg in about 6 months of regular PPL. Recently, I did a switch to train conventional as well, about 3 weeks now, and I'm still struggling to do 140kg 1RM with conventionals cleanly.

[@JustBrandonLim]

@@TheJackOfAllTrades777 good advice, im trying to gain more mass, almost 8 months into gymming now, so i made some mistakes, now i only attempt my max during deload.

[@sondersonics7534]

Well conventional is more back. Sumo is more like a squat.

[@Muahahaha234]

What you are saying resonated with me 100%. I find sumo allows me to lift with stricter form and virtually no back pain, which was an issue for me around my 1RM, while moving more weight.

[@JJ-qw4ey]

@@TheJackOfAllTrades777 nah it's more hip mobility, I've got the same problem for my squats, so I've got a really open stance. It's just meant I can push safer and higher.

[@masterdftw4983]

The Harry Potter whistle in the beginning is gold!!!

[@evgeniyaseminenko8594]

I am a short and a relatively heavy woman (5'2(158cm) and around 80 kg), but through trial and error I figured sumo is much more comfortable for me. I had a theory that it has to do with length of my arms/leg length proportion. Also somehow my grip is stronger with sumo. Thank you for the video!

[@Pronoob1218]

I actually first hit 405 on sumo after trying it out for a month, since deadlift (conv) was a lacking movement for me. Note that I was sub-88kgs. After a month of layoff and an introductory such, i hit 405 conventional at 92kgs. I suppose switching in-between and breaking the ceiling, be it mental or physical, is best.

[@fireynight9296]

nice

[@D4NKN4]

i agree. I slightly injured my back on conventional hitting 305. i did some recovery on sumo and hit 315 no problem. im considering on going back to conventional to see if i can improve on it again.

[@zodeadlifts9295]

For most people sumo is an accessory to conventional and vis versa. They both address weaknesses of the other, making a combination of the 2 in a training plan beneficial for most!!

[@jananilcolonoscopu4034]

Damn you and your mature even handedness

[@bertrandronge9019]

You hit 405 kg ?! Damn !

[@addstrength1422]

Props to Jeff for trying to end this stupid debate, unfortunately I think people like to argue too much for it to ever be truly resolved.

[@lukas_g243]

There’s no debate, sumo is cheating

[@Schizoid1311]

​@@lukas_g243 Some people are simply not built to pull conventional. So they both are equal

[@kieranmurraysnaturalstreng5913]

A couple of sauced bodybuilders discuss the sumo deadlift.

[@gaiseric9518]

Dude knows that without Sumo he wouldn't be able to say he has a 5 plate deadlift. Dude gonna go to the grave defending this.

[@Schacal6666]

8:59 3 lines above the marked text it is stated: "25-40% [energy expenditure] greater in the conventional group."

[@SSHayden]

Nice catch, wonder why that was not addressed.

[@krishnakedia9243]

@@DS-ej9wm he states that HE can lift more weight, as he is a shorter individual and his leverages support sumo better whereas a taller/ heavier individual wouldn't find this strength boost even if he reduced the ROM

[@BoringChanel]

That doesn't even matter, means you probably can do more reps with sumo, in rep endurance it matters but strength and hyperthrophy you're not aiming for rep endurance.

[@nickels8616]

Did you read the full sentence or only start at the most convenient point? It's based on work which only takes into account force and displacement. By that logic the predicted energy expenditure on an explosive 50kg upright row could be similar to a 400kg above the knee rack pull and it should be obvious one is significantly harder than the other. Work ≠ difficulty

[@YajoX]

yes, because the distance is longer in conventional. but a max strength lift is not failed because you are to weak over a whole distance, a lift is failed because you are to weak at the point of failure. many people seem to not get this point.

[@kevinsips3658]

I'm 6'2", 240lbs and I switched to sumo about a year ago. My deadlift is up about 70lbs since then and I feel much better after every session. Switching is one of the best decisions I've made at the gym.

[@vitoconigliaro7926]

What was your deadlift weight to start with

[@kevinsips3658]

@@vitoconigliaro7926 about a year ago it was 550 and had been for about 2 years

[@austensmith6857]

We need to up those numbers

[@jayoh2k]

It's much better because the exercise is much easier. If you can't do more sumo style something is wrong. Add in the fact you're 6'2", the bar has to travel a lot farther conventional style.

[@Dr_Footbrake]

@@jayoh2k I’m not sure there was anything wrong with KK or Benni’s deadlifts

[@joewells3376]

Stand with Chris on this one. Sumo is just the deadlift version of the super wide grip, high back arch benchpress.

[@RohannvanRensburg]

The reason "conventional" is seen as cheating, IMO, is because of 2 things: 1. The parameters are arbitrary, unlike with conventional 2. The result means you're essentially doing a completely different exercise than what's known as a "deadlift", while still calling it a deadlift. Re: 1. With a conventional deadlift, you are limited to having your hands outside your knees. Going wider doesn't make it easier. There are no set parameters with sumo; sumo as you pull it may not be worlds different from conventional, but I'd still argue it's a different exercise. 2. A better analogy isn't grip width on bench, it's the laughably absurd hyper-arches in powerlifting that result in a 2" ROM being called a "bench press". I don't think this is much different from a sumo pull happening when a lifter touches both plates with their feet. When gamification goes that far it gets extremely silly, and it's not the same exercise. It's akin to a crossfitter saying they can do 20 pullups in a row, all the while meaning they'll violently gyrate on the bar ("kipping pullups"). TL;DR: Just call them sumo deadlifts rather than deadlifts. Problem solved.

[@schmui]

Yes. Thank you.

[@seriousandy6656]

7:28.... how did he escape the basement?

[@sebastiengagnon2632]

Thanks for another great video Jeff. When I started lifting, I started conventional. Lifted for almost 2 years before trying sumo. When I did, I was shocked to discover that sumo was way harder for me than conventional. Now I always use both in my cycles when I program 2 pull days per week. My conventional is still 60lbs over my sumo, so until my sumo pulls get better than my conventional, I will continue to use conventional for powerlifting meets, although I honestly will never say nor secretly think that some other dude pulling sumo at the same meet is cheating. For your reference, I am 44 years old, 6'2" tall and weigh 185lbs and closing in on 3 years of lifting experience. Current single records are 424lbs conventional, 365lbs sumo - Calculated 1RM records are 443lbs conventional, 383lbs sumo.

[@RobOgden]

It seems like the comfort level for sumo is more about height than weight. The reason the tall guy has a smaller difference in ROM is because during the sumo, he can't create as wide of a "triangle" with his legs while keeping his foot position comfortably within the width of the plates. If you can't get your legs wide enough, you can't clear a path for your hands to pass between your knees. You could also imagine a person with really short legs - they could do the splits while keeping their feet between the plates and their change in ROM would be -100%. It's also just a funny mental image.

[@MrMAITRAY]

Can we really appreciate the cinematic shot at 8:43 Amazing video

[@cailumkassouf6995]

Who tf eats a kiwi like that. 4:34

[@Sunder828]

You pointed out you compensate for the shorter range of motion with more weight, that's what I think people mean by "cheating". Not so much if one is objectively easier than the other but that you can lift more weight with one than the other with possibly an equal amount of effort.

[@nhatho1723]

But why is a wide grip bench press not cheating versus a close grip bench press? They are just different variations of bench presses. Just like sumo and conventional deadlift. Not cheating, just different.

[@AccendinoMCM]

not everyone can lift more with sumo though. If you can, it probably means that your leverages are better for sumo and you should train it if you desire maximum strength.

[@pidgey4791]

@@nhatho1723 if you watch the lifters who have a stupid arch in bench also go very wide so less rom, they just tend to often be female and in smaller weight categories cause big dudes aren’t always as flexible, that’s why you won’t see it as much

[@danielposh]

@@nhatho1723 FALSE. Sumo is the decline bench. it’s easier and shouldn’t even be counted as a lift. It’s a sumo lift not deadlift.

[@PeteQuad]

I sometimes wonder if commenters even watch the video.

[@TheMissiIe]

That Harry Potter whistle was perfection, bravo

[@fedoramaster6035]

0:51 nah the plate of kiwis got me 😭😭

[@natebackunbroken]

The best start to one of your videos to date. Had me laughing during my lunch break😂

[@landonmatthew]

I’d really love to see some research into the impact torso to leg ratio has on deadlift leverages and overall performance.

[@JakeVincentDelpine]

Same. I’m 6’3" with a short torso. If I normal squat with no weight, I have to go up on my toes or I fall backwards every time. My friend is the same height but his torso is at least 3 inches longer and he can normal squat with feet flat no problem. It’s weird because I am much more flexible than him.

[@landonmatthew]

@@JakeVincentDelpine Interesting. I was expecting this to be talked about in a bit more detail but maybe there isn’t much information or research on it. I’m 6’1” 6 years of training and i MUCH prefer sumo for comfort, leverage, and overall load.

[@digitalvii]

@@JakeVincentDelpine I have very long femurs compared to my torso yet I do mainly ATG squats and can easily do so with just my bodyweight too. You say you are "flexible" but that doesn't apply to your whole body, you can be flexible in your hamstrings but not your spine. However, regarding deep squats, it's not an issue of flexibility but rather mobility. You most likely lack mobility in your ankles and hips, which is what you need in order to do a deep squat. Although your friend has a longer torso which helps with squatting and staying upright in a squat, if you have no mobility then you can't do a deep squat, long torso or not. Simply working on your ankle dorsiflexion and hip mobility every day will allow you to achieve a deep ATG squat with your heels planted on the ground. You can also progressively get better at this by doing assisted deep squats.

[@SLOK20C2]

We need to see more evil Jeff 😂😂 and the whistling Harry Potter intro was good stuff lmao

[@Nice-sl3md]

It’s not cheating, it’s just a different lift. I don’t think you should be allowed to sumo in a conventional lift competition and vice versa. They need to be their own separate events.

[@tutterxd]

4:44 is the best moment of all cinematic history

[@adamsellers3670]

I think it's important to mention bar bend w/ the extreme outlier heavy sumo pulls. A sumo stance allows your hands to be much closer together than a conventional stance, which increased the moment arm length between the weight and the hand, which allows the bar to bend a hell of a lot more for the same weight. Similar to stiff bar vs deadlift bar, or deadlifting from 1-2in blocks, this can make the pull much easier from the floor which is a huge advantage for some. Watch someone like Jerry Pritchett who deadlifts with an insanely wide grip. The bar hardly flexes even at 1000lbs, compared to any 800+# sumo pull.

[@sirfranciscanadianbacon1468]

Interesting edge case, maybe Jeff needs to hire you as a consultant for the future. Although, he did show that the majority of lifters who could manage the outlier heavy sumo pull prefer to pull conventionally, which minimizes the significance of your proposed edge case. Still interesting to think about.

[@solcoster8110]

This comment should be pinned

[@PauloGomezPG]

Underrated comment

[@mjp121]

@@sirfranciscanadianbacon1468 YO actually a well reasoned OC with a well reasoned rebuttal. Points to both

[@alexwenger9655]

That's super advantageous at high weight.

[@Cub9carry]

arch on bench didnt age well considering its been nerfed to make it more fair.. I think in then next few years we will see significant changes to rules and i think sumo will be included in such

[@TSLee-jz8df]

Not in a million years would I have guessed that the next addition to the Nippard Cinematic Universe would be War Crimes Jeff

[@offshorecomedy]

2:07 eyy YOOO....ma man just flew 10 feet in the air!!

[@MitsugamiZero]

Thats them quads

[@Marckus62]

The real issue that causes people to call Sumo "cheating," is the increase of athletes who use a ridiculously wide sumo stance. They usually are feet rotated way out to the sides with a stance so wide they risk crushing their toes with the plates. The ROM at that point is over 5" in difference from conventional pulling. They're knees are already mostly extended also. So like you said, with a high partial squat being the easiest part, they're knees being almost fully extended allows for just the tiniest bit of knee and hip extension to lock out. So with 2 joints (knees, hip) going through maybe at most 15° of ROM max to move a barbell up 12", then people become skeptical. Your sumo stance is very very narrow compared to a lot of the sumo pullers that show up on my feed. If you look at Brian Shaws deadlift he uses a stupid wide conventional stance, almost as wide as your sumo. However he keeps his hands between his knees thus keeping it a "conventional," pull.

[@Freshlinens]

I’ve seen the same which confused me because I thought vertical shins was one of the hallmarks of a good sumo setup. The people I see going super wide have their shins diagonal and it looks like their MCLs are about to explode when they start lifting

[@mission3479]

Doesn't matter how wide thier legs are because thier trading for a shorter range of motion for in increase in force per distance required to pull the bar above thier knees. The total force required is still same either way.

[@simonleroy9576]

Super interesting video, I haven't been as deep in the science, but on an energy standpoint, having a decreased range of motion for the lift means less Gravitational Potential Energy (as it's basically the energy required to lift it to a certain height) which means less energy required by the lifter for the lift overall. I don't think it is to be overlooked. I agree that the difference in technique will dictate whether the energy is spent efficiently or not (you could argue that sumo is less "efficient" thus compensating and keeping the lift equally hard), but I don't think this goes in this direction. Lifting with your legs seems to be easier than lifting with your back (as you put it in your video). WHich is why weight usually decreases in RDL types of movement. I think what you said is correct about weight categories : sumo IS indeed easier, BUT requires high mobility that higher weight classes seem to lack. I think the debate is interesting though because then, heavy lifters with high mobility could have a clear advantage, just as light lifters choosing conventional being at a straight disadvantage. Why not create 2 different categories ? Might make powerlifting competitions difficult to judge though (when the 3 lifts are required).

[@themasterkey3]

When I sumo people always say it feels better because its less RoM, but from my perspective the distance of travel or time of bar path doesn't feel very different at all. The main difference is my low back feels closer to the bar and my center of gravity compared to conventional, and in turn makes it feel a lot stronger and more secure on high loads. Something about conventional as a short lifter with my limb lengths that it puts my low back slightly out of a good and ideal feeling spot no matter how I adjust it.

[@Rowsbeforehoes]

Jeff this vid was phenomenal! I love you and Chris both, that’s why I especially enjoyed all the humor. Top notch gold Jeff keep videos like this coming!

[@WheresWaldon]

We need more videos like this Jeff! Hilarious and educational! I had a giant smile this whole video!

[@jvcn2138]

Completely agree hope he see this