Should you buy the E13 Sidekick hub? An honest review of the pedal kickback solution.

[@ethirteencomponents]

Thanks for the review, Jeff!

[@dansacco1964]

Nice review. A super high engagement hub with an electric disengagement would be an interesting solution.

[@JeffreyJim09]

@@dansacco1964 or better a selectable level of disengagement. Maybe that is what you set internally then you use the button to activate a small servo that engages/disengages the setting.

[@dansacco1964]

@@JeffreyJim09not a bad idea. It could change with the gear ratio. That red ring that engages the pawls on the e13 got me thinking. Seems like this type of engagement ring could eliminate the springs and make a silent hub. The pedal torque would force the pawls to bite and then the torque holds them in place. Opens up some cool possibilities.

[@johnsogrgrj6]

Canadian company Tairin had this hub option far before e13

[@michaelk.5706]

I do like the ochain for my propain tyee, as it has quite some Pedal kickback. It also saved me quite sometimes, after casing jumps, because there the rear wheel stopps really quick and you get the sensation of a spike.

[@vzhickok]

I used to confuse it all the time myself but the wheel and hub are unsprung mass not sprung mass like you said in the video :)

[@JeffreyJim09]

@@vzhickok almost looked it up. Good catch!

[@tristanwwsd]

What? So a 40 lb. rear wheel won't affect the suspension?

[@JeffreyJim09]

@@tristanwwsd No, the more weight the suspension is holding up the slower & more sluggish the suspension is going to react. What we were debating was the labeling of "sprung" vs "unsprung", which I always get backwards and frankly always seems counterintuitive.

[@tristanwwsd]

@@JeffreyJim09 Usually the unsprung weight is the weight below the swingarm pivot and below the shock. This would include the wheel. It sounds like he was saying it's everything above those points.

[@hotel1257]

I have ochain and one of the best feature is also chain slapping noise is lower. How´s sidekick with chain noise,does it make bike quieter?

[@JeffreyJim09]

@@hotel1257 maybe slightly, but I have something we just patented on the bike that quiets the drivetrain down significantly (and will cost you $30). I love quite bikes, and we spent our entire summer working on an affordable solution to the problem

[@godstrashman]

@@JeffreyJim09 I'm interested, can you give any more info?

[@toniobr76]

if you take a '3 pawl ring' and remove every other tooth you should have a hub with many more degrees of freedom and especially for a DH bike that you don't pedal it can be more than fine. What do you think?

[@JeffreyJim09]

I think its a way to test out a potential solution to a problem you may or may not have ;)

[@khema6085]

I was thinking to purchase it too, but is the all mountain 28 spokes pretty stiff cause where I ride in Las Vegas pretty rocky and I was gonna wait for the enduro with 32holes. What is your thoughts on the 28 holes?

[@JeffreyJim09]

@@khema6085 I found it plenty stiff enough. I’ve ridden a number of 28 hole rims with good results. You are in a little burlier zone though!

[@JeremyFacer]

Pedal kick back not relevant when rear wheel is moving and brake is not applied?

[@JeffreyJim09]

No. Not sure where I stated that, but pedal kickback is determined by... 1) The design of the rear suspension linkage. Some designs have a lot. Some not so much. 2) If the drivetrain is engaged. If it is, you'll get kickback. If its not, you won't get kickback. This is what these devices aim to do (keep the drivetrain from being engaged as the suspension cycles when coasting.) If you are braking, especially braking hard, this has different effects on the suspension system. Most of the time, but not always, braking is going to result in a undesired side effects from a suspension perspective. This is why you want to brake hard and less frequently, when the trail is more smooth. As opposed to always dragging brakes, especially in rougher sections of trail.

[@rotaryjesus9606]

@jeremyfacer is actually somewhat correct. Vorsprung has a video explaining it. He has a bike on a bikestand with no shock, spins up a wheel and shows the pedal kickback, then does it again without the wheel spinning - big difference and a pretty interesting demo. It's hard to describe in words, but depending on the degrees of engagement at the hub, wheel speed, suspension speed and geometry, most bikes don't tend to have kickback while moving at high wheel speeds. That said, as you slow down your wheel speed and take big hits or lock up your rear these devices really make a big difference. I have an o-chain on my madonna and I notice little to no difference when moving quickly over terrain with successive medium/small/big hits - which follows the results of the vorsprung demonstration. On the flip side, when I'm doing things like big log drops at very low wheel speed it makes a notable difference. The biggest difference is suspension performance during braking, which leads to more stable braking/corner entry and allows me to brake later. I won't be taking it off my enduro bike, but I don't plan to put one on my trail bike (I'm sure it would provide the same benefits but I don't want the drawbacks on that bike).

[@JeffreyJim09]

@@rotaryjesus9606 Yeah, in theory you are right. The wheel does need to be able to turn in order for the drivetrain to be engaged, technically. Obviously, if the wheel cannot turn at all (brakes locked) kickback isn't a thing, but then you have other factors influencing suspension performance. If you are dragging your brakes, kickback is still a thing, plus you have the negative influence of braking on the system. Tl;dr, if you are braking suspension doesn't work as well, either.

[@GilCasinillo]

What is this pedal kickback thing? Why is this an issue?