Jehovah's Witnesses & Friendship: It's Conditional

What does friendship look like inside the world of Jehovah's Witnesses? Will they truly give up their lives for each other? How about a better seat at a District Convention? Like every relationship within the organization, friendships are dependent on many conditions... and decades of loyalty can be gone in seconds.

[@Godly-Beard]

Powerful statement which is so true. "Friends can't simply agree to disagree within the organization"

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

It truly comes down to that one fact. It's the top 'condition'

[@spazz6252]

Everytime i look at my "friends" at the meetings i can see that fake smile and it's scares me

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Oh yeah, do a scan during a meeting.....you'll start to feel the 'creepy' factor LOL

[@200x-v4k]

@@survivingparadisepodcast😂

[@joannaalabaster5916]

Most insidious is the illusion of friendship between the "Bible student" and the teacher of the study and other members of the congregation. As the study was conducted with me, I wanted to become a JW and had no illusions (like some) that studying with a JW is not about becoming a JW. But at the same time, I spend a lot of time with people from the congregation outside of the study, preaching and meetings, I could talk to them about everything, watch movies (not published by the org), make bonfires, sing, etc. They even taught me how to memorize the group of Polish kings, which was very much needed for school. I thought, that this is friendship. I didn't know then that they could write the time spent with me on the report. And then, the more I learned about JWs and expressed my doubts, and finally gave them a thorough "apostate teaching" (about 1914, everchanging new lights about the resurrection of the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah, Beth Sarim etc.) these "friendships" ended. And I'm treated as an apostate even though I've never been baptized.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

VERY good point Joanna! They're VERY deceptive regarding the teacher/student relationship. They lure you in to get baptized.... there often times isn't anything after that. And imagine vilifying a person for asking questions??? There is actually a scripture or two about that.....as well as their King's example himself....but it's all ignored and people are dumped

[@EL-IZ-At-BETH-sarim]

SO TRUE!!! This is really 100% my story as a bible student, including the 'shunning'! Best wishes from the Netherlands 🇳🇱 ❤

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@EL-IZ-At-BETH-sarim Thanks Elizabeth! I hope to visit your country some day!

[@mattmurdock2868]

That's your out...take it and run!

[@beautyRest1]

It’s all about “counting time”😃

[@adamantiumbullet9215]

As a JW, I had the absolute best friend a person could have. We were as close as fleshly brothers with none of the kinky vibes and Brokeback Mountain undertones of the David-Jonathan love story. Friends for over 30 years, Pioneer partners, best man at his wedding, etc. All it took for him to instantly and decisively cut me out of his life was... I quoted something to him _directly from WT literature_ about a past WT doctrine that contradicts the current doctrine, and he didn't like hearing it! To him, that was betraying the governing body and god and he attacked me for having the audacity to read older WT literature, as if I was the one responsible for printing it. He was a supportive "friend" as long as I was willing to take any abuses the elders were dishing out, and there was a truckload of abuses. As soon as I stood my ground and said 'no more', he no longer saw me as friend material. This is the dysfunction of JWs- they all have to suffer together as a group with blinders on. As soon as you step away from the herd, and are no longer willing to be victimized, they have no further use for you.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

A story many of us can echo! So sorry Adam; it's terrible on so many levels. I lost my very closest friend as well and it's always salt in the wound when the friend you lose wasn't particularly a 'good JW' anyway, but suddenly decided to be 'righteous'...many of us have tried to do what you did and it almost always ends the same way: losing a friendship

[@deanpixx]

I’ve always wondered as an outsider, why can’t you approach your best friend and say you’ve found out this, and that (long list of falsehoods), and they’ve been scamming us the whole time - “we” need to get out man! Why does your best friend not accept/ trust your credibility??? I don’t get it. Instead, they immediately defend the organization??? That’s some powerful brainwashing

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@deanpixx The 'friend' is usually the victim of decades of brainwashing, propaganda and FEAR. Even the best people don't realize what this 'organization' is doing to them at every meeting....year after year. It's a great question Dean

[@adamantiumbullet9215]

@@deanpixx In the JW mind, the Watchtower is god and god is the Watchtower. To ask any questions or express a critical thought against the organization, or to even bring up doctrines the organization once taught but has now changed, is seen as rebellion. The JW mind is conditioned to automatically reject the rebel- regardless of how long you've known each other or have been friends. Without understanding the powerful mind control that cults like Watchtower use, it is almost impossible for a normal, rational person to comprehend. In the cult-controlled mind this reaction of shunning is completely logical. The reason a JW cannot "approach your best friend" to discuss these things is that the mind of the indoctrinated person is closed off. No amount of evidence, facts, reason or logic can penetrate those defenses once they are up. Steven Hassan, in his book, "Combating Cult Mind Control", explains all of this in detail. WT mind control is an insidious type of conditioning that rewires the brain of a JW. It cannot be explained in terms an unconditioned person can comprehend without knowing the mechanics behind the process.

[@adamantiumbullet9215]

@@deanpixx As far as the scams and list of falsehoods go, JWs are taught the idea of "present truth", meaning current doctrines are subject to change at any time for any reason. This is called progression and "new light". What this does is make doctrinal changes irrelevant, even when "new light" usually completely contradicts old light, despite *both* contradictory positions being touted as coming from god and being absolutely correct _while the doctrine is current._ Once the doctrine is changed, any JW who points out the contradiction and illogic of the change is considered as being arrogant and knowing more than the religion's leaders, the spokesmen for god. So, pointing out the falsehoods means the questioner is not humble, is not 'keeping up with god's organization', and is a danger to anyone who has no problem accepting the change without question. Again, questioning the change automatically creates a wall of defense for the JW, and no arguments will be able to penetrate that wall, even if those arguments are coming from a trusted friend. Loyalty to WT trumps any friendship.

[@adamantiumbullet9215]

Pineapple on pizza. It's the "overlapping generation" of food choices. 😁 So much of what you discuss here absolutely resonates with me. The stampede when the doors opened at the Convention: check (I'll die for you but if you take Seat 17 in Row 10 it's game on, brother!) Lost all my JW friends when I stopped going to meetings: check Didn't develop any friendships outside the organization: check WT keeps JWs isolated and absolutely dependent on the group: check JW "friendships" are absolutely conditional: check I call JWs "conditional aquaintances". It seems more appropriate. Thanks, Stacey. Sometimes we can feel very alone and that our experiences are unique as an exJW. Your insights are a reminder that a lot of us are in the same boat.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Well said Adam!!! LOL, I love this checklist....but you know .....'friendship' LOL

[@beautyRest1]

Adam, I agree. I’m still in , pimo, but was baptized in 1970. I’m very healthy, but OLD, it’s hard to make friendships now.

[@Womanmad1]

I’ll be your friend I’m looking for ex JW friends we have all had a unique experience which we can relate to, where are you based?

[@beautyRest1]

@@Womanmad1 mid florida

[@Womanmad1]

I’m in the UK but that doesn’t matter in box me

[@joachimgoethe7864]

Stacy, when you mentioned district conventions, that brought back a load of repressed memories. Like sitting under a blazing sun in a cloudless sky in 95° heat for hours at a time. Listening to a guy wearing a fake beard droning on and on between bouts of delirium. Then scrambling to find shade at intermission. Oh, the memories, Stacy. . . oh, the memories.😝

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

LOL, this made me laugh so loud! Well said! I'm preparing to do an episode about all the weird things in JWs, including conventions, dramas, the smell of the men's room and more! So many memories!

[@joachimgoethe7864]

@@survivingparadisepodcast Let's no forget being a member of the cleanup crew after the convention. I'll save that story for another day. 👍

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@joachimgoethe7864 ...hilarious memories....and a great chance to meet a sister from another congregation!

[@beautyRest1]

@@joachimgoethe7864oh yes, cleaning the bathroom, what a great PRIVILEGE!!😀😃

[@codydowns8251]

I can totally relate to not having any feelings when my friends dropped me. Saw my former best friend at the store the other day, and surprisingly, he tried to talk to me. Out of emotion I told him not to talk to me. He looked surprised. I said you aren't my friend. He said I love you brother. I said well I've felt allot of love from you since you haven't talked to me in 2 years. Their love is just words. That's all it is. Thanks Stacy

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Wow Cody, I can SO relate to that experience! I'm sorry man; it's incredible that he didn't feel ashamed for how he has ghosted you. Yes, it's very strange by definition, but I felt nothing when my closest friend disappeared. Don't miss him; totally ambivalent. In many ways, it felt like a relief. Good for you to tell him you haven't felt seen by him.....that ain't love!

[@aloramermaidful]

Cody & Stacy, I totally get that. But Cody, playing Devil's Advocate here (without knowing your situation with your former JW friend), what if your friend had to ghost you at that time - since he/she would have risked shunning talking to you? Had more to risk at that time? What if they've been thinking about you these last 2 years, now wrestling with the same doubts you had back then? What if this was their first time reaching out to someone they could talk to, unfiltered about their doubts about the JW org? Feeling them out with someone safe (you)? I understand your emotions. Just some things to ponder next time the situation arises. We have all had these emotions leaving JW and we were all at different places in our journey getting out. I would hope we could put ourselves in the other person's shoes, feel compassion even if they've hurt us at some point. We might be the point of contact for their first step on getting out.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@aloramermaidful Great suggestions and thoughts Alora.....we just never know. Great reminder!

[@soundthealarm83]

As a Witness, nothing screamed "this is a people of true Christian love" like seeing some elderly sister throwing elbows into younger brothers as the doors to the convention site opened like she was James Caan in Rollerball. Truly a moving moment.😂

[@Deo_on2]

Happy Monday another great episode. The shunning has to be the most non Christ like thing that JWs do.

[@adamantiumbullet9215]

The parable of the Prodigal Son. It's in the Bible. Meaning, JWs have never read it.

[@terridovey7648]

Exactly. The wt is from satan. Russell didn't believe the Bible, then he started this cult with his own ideas.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

TRUTH!!!! Not taught in the Bible.....and neither is mistreating a 'friend'.....they skip right over Jesus: Zachaeus, Mary Magdalene, Samaritan woman....and go straight to the silent treatment

[@Womanmad1]

The JT WT may change the Bible to make the prodigal son subject to a judicial meeting. Make him Sit in the back school for two years, until he writes a letter asking to be reinstated. Big fat Cult!!

[@pinklilyblossom]

I have an ex JDub friend who was abused by her ex husband. She finally left when he fractured her skull - after she was raped by an elder who was trying to “help” her. She knew no one would believe her but eventually confided in a “sister” who she considered her closest most trusted friend. The response of this woman was “I love you but I love Jehovah more so I am going to report you” - thus victim blaming someone who was already in crisis and broken. You cannot trust anyone who is a JDub. Never.

[@adamantiumbullet9215]

Hopefully she followed Watchtower's counsel and felt bad for her rapist: Treat the rapist with respect and understanding: _"Treat Him Respectfully - _*_The intended victim should remember that the rapist is a human._*_ No doubt there are circumstances in his life that have precipitated his behaviour. So although a woman should not cower in fear and permit a rapist to intimidate her, at the same time _*_she should treat him understandingly as a fellow human.”_* Awake! 84, Feb 22 *"victim blaming someone who was already in crisis and broken. You cannot trust anyone who is a JDub."* Totally agree. It's been said that you can tell a lot about a person by what makes them angry. How many times have we heard about an entire congregation showing up in court and filling the seats behind an accused JW child abuser as a show of solidarity, while the *victim of the abuser* sits all alone, shunned, with no JW supporting them?

[@universeworld1782]

So true! Conditional friendships subject to shunning at any moment. Teaches them to look the other way! Did you see that Elder with another brothers wife, the response would be no, just keep quiet! It's not worth mentioning if you don't want to harm yourself. Especially if it's an Elder involved in wrong doing!

[@broncosbest6441]

@@adamantiumbullet9215 I quoted that rapist quote in a comment section and guess what the JW said? Blamed me for the quote saying I’m attacking Jehovah and slandering his name and I must have got it off an apostate website. When I told him to look it up the abuse ceased. They are going to start cleaning things up digitally now that everything is on that website as we saw with Morris.

[@adamantiumbullet9215]

@@broncosbest6441 I've lost track of how many times JWs have attacked me for quoting WT literature when they don't like the information. At least the JW you were commenting to apparently looked it up. I haven't ever talked to a JW that was willing to verify anything. I encourage them to look it up on their WT Library cd-rom to verify it's an accurate quote and they absolutely refuse to do it. But, that didn't stop them from calling me a liar, an opposer, an apostate and saying and I must hate Jehovah's Witnesses for posting such information.

[@Jeron_Benton]

That’s sad as hell! Jw’s are the fakest of the fakes!!!

[@bygeorgehemayberite8385]

This one really hit home since it’s been just a smidge over a yr from disassociating. 1000% facts; the vast majority of the friendships in the org is superficial & conditional. It’s predicated upon proximity. One of the things I put in my disassociation letter was “I know what this means, and I’m already prepared for its “unbiblical” consequences. The friends I had from school from K-college remained my friends regardless. U can also ask those same ones what’s my favorite color, my birthday, my hobby, my pet peeves, goals ( u know, basic stuff) & they’ll all know. The sad part is in the JW religion, b/c friendship is just based upon association, although they were all quick to say “Agape” & “I love u”, if u asked any of them those above ?’s, I promise u none would have an answer. It’s also interesting that there’s a “feeler” moment among JWs, too; meaning, it’s a holier than thou pretense initially…but, if they see u’re cool, then they become a bit more relaxed in showing their true self. In essence, to be a JW friend, u must wear a mask. U’re not allowed to be an individual. What’s more insidious is to keep u in this mind set, they paint non-JWs as evil individuals, so u can’t develop friendships outside the org; the reason being they know if u have association outside, the less likely u’ll be willing to submit to the mind games & the shunning won’t work to coerce u to come back. And as Stacy highlighted, this org knows the damage it causes by this policy, which is y they lie to public about this policy, but like most lies, usually if u keep talking u’ll slip up which they do in their FAQs. Great, GREAT podcast.

[@terridovey7648]

Agreed. It's all screwed up because the gb hears from satan, not the real God the Father.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

First, so glad you got out George! But it's not easy....it's very difficult and painful to leave behind everyone/everything you've ever known. The friendships are often times very shallow. Even the great friendships are conditional.....people you've been close to for decades turn on a dime if you don't agree with the religion. The dynamic you described here is spot on! So sorry for what you've been through!

[@bygeorgehemayberite8385]

@@survivingparadisepodcast Even though I lost my parents & these friends, I already knew the love was conditional. So like u, it didn’t bother me once I knew what I had to do. The only thing I pray for is for the ones I know who r truly good ppl, wake up. I don’t want any to die in vain or not enjoy their best life.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@bygeorgehemayberite8385 I couldn't agree more George!

[@superdave1921]

Stacey, I just now saw this brand new video that you posted. I haven’t had a chance to watch it just yet, but I do know that it will be fantastic like all of the others. I wait in anticipation for every new video knowing that you are revealing the truth regarding the JW cult. Thanks

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Thanks Dave! You're too kind my friend; appreciate you!

[@JohnBaroque]

When I became a witness in 1970 I gave up all my "Worldly friends". I can honestly say in that time I had about 8 true friends in the faith but they are now dead, disfellowshipped or drifted . I've faded since 2020 and have no Witness friends and no Worldly friends which means no friends at all. But hey it doesn't really matter now as I am disillusioned and reclusive and strangely it suits me fine

[@freddyray6805]

Always appreciate your podcast Stacy

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Thanks so much Freddy, I appreciate you!

[@georgebrito-dq2yu]

After leaving the JW 25 years ago, I have many, many so call friends. Not one of them have I asked what religion do you belong to. I avoid that topic like a plague. A friend you will know that he or she is there for you similar to a marriage. He or she is there for you during good time or bad times, not asking what religion you belong to.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

First, so glad you have those true friends. Second, isn't it something how different they treat you??? Good for you George!

[@georgebrito-dq2yu]

Stanley lest have a chat one of these days

[@tellusorbit]

I had more than a few friends in my decades of association with Jehovah's Witnesses, some of them as close as my fleshly family, but when I was disfellowshipped eighteen years ago, most dropped me like a hot potato. Some maintained our relationship for a few years after that. They had hoped that I would be reinstated. When I made it clear that I had neither the wish nor desire to ever return, those relationships ended. So I know how conditional Witness friendships are. I was more fortunate that many disfellowshipped Witnesses. I had always kept a large network of friends outside the organization despite the WTBTS denunciation of such relationships. It was good that I had done so, for they were my shelter from the storm when I had to rebuild my life. I don't know how I would have managed without them. I don't think I would have; and while I may not have committed suicide as so many sadly have done, I would have become a bitter and broken man. My judicial committee refused to reinstate me after several years of vain effort. It was a blessing in disguise because that refusal freed me to live the life I was meant to live. I found the strength to finally turn my back on this hypocritical and poisonous cult. My life is happier and more fruitful than it has ever been, for which I am very grateful. There is no such thing as real and genuine friendship among Jehovah's Witnesses. Looking for that with them is like looking to gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles. The best thing a person can do is to "get out from among them," and live a better and happier life.

[@liv328]

Thank you for sharing! I enjoyed your comment :)

[@Vbreychak7212]

My brother up and quit after 30 years. He does not get invited to do anything even with someone he thought was his best friend. He does not speak against the Organization at all. He just quit after them trying to force him not to get a blood transfusion. They acted like vultures and literally scared him off. He was a ministerial servant and pioneer. Seeing his "friends" pushing him to die as he lay in a cancer unit was alarming. If not for cancer he probably would have never left. I can't imagine having your life on the line and your friends saying just die. Pretty sick friendships in the Borg.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

OMG....horrific!! I'm so sorry for your brother and I'm SO glad he left!!! Outside this 'org' it's people would be SHOCKED to hear that this is what a 'friend' is as a JW. Just horrible!!

[@liv328]

I had a few friends outside of the org. that I had met in high school. When I got heavy into my beliefs, (indoctrination) I told one of them she was a witch based on Lev 20:27 because she is wiccan. She shrugged me off. We still chatted and kept in touch through social media. (I don't know how she put up with me and my religious rants.) We are taught an Us vs Them mentality in the JW religion, but guess who was ALWAYS there for me and who 100% wholeheartly forgave me for the things I had said to her when I left the cult? It sure wasn't any JW that claimed to be my friends every day for years upon years... My relationships with my "worldly" friends are so much more wholesome and REAL than any I ever had in the org. Thank you for another great week Stacy! hugs!

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

You and I were very similar! I had so many friends that just loved me for who I was and ignored my silly JW stuff....and they're still friends to this day! We were smart enough to disobey the rigid standards for friends and eventually it paid off for us! I never would have thought it! Thank YOU for being here, big (((HUGS)))

[@jordanissport]

I distinctly remember being at my friend's house one day thinking this is probably going to be the last time I'm over at their house, and it turned out I was correct. They will turn on you on a dime.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

So sad, and many of us can relate to this :(

[@genewooster2233]

👍

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Thanks Gene!

[@juliepeat4402]

I found this very very interesting.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Thank you Julie!

[@migdaliafuentes1618]

I really enjoy your channel, as you say other channels (which I also like) are concentrated in other point of view: doctrinal, etc. But I enjoy your point of views because it’s from the mental, social, JW cultural and behavioral point of view. I joined the JW in 1977 baptized in 1980 and I can relate with you. I had dear childhood, worldly, neighbor friends and I just moved in away from them. They were kept contact of me thru my siblings (not JWs). Missed their weddings, they university graduations, children birth, etc I woke up in 2019 and reconnected- catching up Now! Those ARE GOOD FRIENDS! This religion breaks up good, sincere relationships besides our family (cousins, aunts etc)!! And I hate it! Keep up the great job! Thank you! As I always post at the end of my comment: DOWN WITH THE TOWERRRR!!!

[@SuperMayor31]

My brother, you again are on Point...Damn man. It's like you're reading my mind....Damn man where have you been all of my exjw life.. 😂. Thank you, Stacy you are keeping people Off the roof and saving lives. Much love ❤️ #baptized@9 Brian Gibbs.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Brian.....NINE??? Oh man my friend, I'm SO sorry!! Thank YOU for the support. So many of us out here navigating post cult life!

[@universeworld1782]

I had an Eldrer, the field service overseer telling my wife he always uses a condom when having sex with women while they were in door to door ministry! And that he only married his wife because he felt pity for her family! This is the kind of garbage that really goes on in many Congregations! Can you tell a bad Elder from one of the good Elder's? No! My wife was hesitant to even tell me for fear of what I might do to that Elder. There are even cases of Elders or other Brothers fondling children during meetings at the Kingdom Hall! No windows! Hidden from all 👀 eyes! Everyone's trained to keep attention on the speaker! If this sounds scary, it should! Remember Nathan Knorr!

[@virginialecroy7729]

OMG! Are you kidding? That is gross! A predictor for sure!

[@adamantiumbullet9215]

I was 4th generation JW, in it for 46 years. I've heard it all. JWs are a swamp: Wife swapping a Circuit Overseer had a stable of sisters in his circuit he was shagging (no doubt, logged as a "shepherding visit".) Sauna and steam room action at Bethel Repeat child abusers DFd then reinstated over and over Swinger parties Abortion Murder

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@virginialecroy7729 🤬🤬

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Unbelievable!! And yet, I know it's true, I saw stuff like this too! Disgusting...criminal. Must create awareness. And oh yes, I grew up with Nathan Knorr as 'the guy' in Brooklyn.

[@johnbrock5668]

The sound of silence Hello darkness, my old freind I've come to talk to you again Because a vision softly creeping Left it's seeds while I was sleeping And the vision that was planted in my brain Still remains Within the sound of silence In restless dreams I walked alone Narrow streets of cobblestone 'Neath the halo of a street lamp I turned my collar to the cold and damp When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a neon light That split the night And touched the sound of silence And in the naked light I saw Ten thousand people,maybe more People talking without speaking People hearing without listening People writing songs that voices never share No one dared Disturb the sound of silence "Fools" said I, You do not know Silence like a cancer grows Hear my words that I might teach you Take my arms that I might reach you But my words like silent raindrops fell And echoed in the wells of silence And the people bowed and prayed To the neon god they made And the sign flashed out it's warning In the words that it was forming And the sign said "The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls And tenement halls And whispered in the sounds of silence Paul Simon

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

One of the best songwriters EVER....and the lyrics are profound in this setting

[@johnbrock5668]

@@survivingparadisepodcast I like the way you say things, so it inspired me . . .

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@johnbrock5668 Thanks a ton John!

[@BooBooBugalugs]

One of the songs that's closest to my heart. This and "I am a rock, I am an island" (again Simon and Garfunkle) have joined with me in times of suffering. Mostly I can't listen to them, but these old friends are always there when I need them. Thanks for posting this.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@BooBooBugalugs Such great music!!

[@cecilialaurin414]

I was a born in for 27 years, I have faded best thing I have ever done since. Great video Stacey I love your truths the friends in the organization are phony even with my witness family there is no love if you leave they treat you like you do not exists etc. I did have a girlfriend that we use to go out for coffee every now and then shun me once I left and did not believe in the organization or that it was the truth. Said we had nothing in common and shun me I think that maybe she really was not a friend and then they are going to die for you well that is the biggest joke around ha, ha. Keep up the good work.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

I'm so sorry Cecilia! The realization that someone you loved and trusted was only in it due to the organization is a bitter pill to swallow. I hope you're out making new friends. Big (((HUGS))) to you!

[@marianvantol4989]

I wasn't even allowed to hang out with some girlfriends at JW because they weren't "good at the truth". My parents used to say "Bad associations spoil useful habits" (I remember the pronunciation, I don't remember the Bible text)

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Oh yes, the 'ol "they're JWs, but they're BAD JWs" thing. Even in the congregation you can get 'marked' as person no one should be friends with. Horrible, so sorry Marian!

[@lh1673]

What a fantasy it was the word “jw are the most united people that love each other”. I as pimo when the day I stopped being them (not doing same works required) I faced the reality jw were the most suspicious looking people that would stare at me suspiciously (most will not even come near to greet) even though I would meet them sometimes at meetings😅it’s only the same ones that does greet.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

They live in a culture that requires constant monitoring, watching, listening....all to 'keep the congregation clean'....when in reality it's exactly as you describe!

[@FoxOM89]

Working convention parking was so brutal. We would always compare it to Game of Thrones Night's Watch.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

LOL...so many memories in those parking lots until I moved over to the Sound Dept.! LOL, I love the GOT comparison....and if people only knew how JWs acted in parking lots LOL

[@lori4971]

Ok I’m here for this one!

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Thank you Lori!

[@96t5wagon]

I felt every word of this episode. It’s going on 2 years now since I was disfellowshipped and mere days before that happened, I have actually went back and counted the conversations i had with those “friends” and in a week’s time there were 9 people I was close to who after the announcement I haven’t heard from in nearly 2 years, 4 of those people I’ve known for over 30 years and was in the weddings as best man for 2 of them. Conditional friendship on full display just for picking off the pineapples from my pizza. Great episode Stacey. Have an awesome week!

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Damn! That feels and sounds so familiar! Right down to being the best man in weddings. So sorry 96...it's unbelievable that people you depended on could treat you this way! I've always been oddly ambivalent; didn't miss them. I hope you're getting by and finding some peace.....and new friends!

[@96t5wagon]

@@survivingparadisepodcastthankfully I didn’t adhere to the direction to not be “friends of the world”, the same as what you mentioned. I have friends from outside of the organization from when I was in up till this day. Those are my true people, plus those that also saw the organization for what it is and left also. We’re all out here trying to live our best authentic lives 💪

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@96t5wagon ...and aren't you glad you kept and developed those friendships?? We never knew it would eventually come to that

[@96t5wagon]

@@survivingparadisepodcastI’m extremely glad because without those I’d be lost I feel. Humans were meant to have the company of other good humans in their lives and I’m thankful that after losing so many years in that organization, I’ve still got great humans in my life.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@96t5wagon Agree! And don't you find that appreciate your current friendships even more? Knowing what you've been through?

[@TinaGolik]

I’m new here. I clicked on your video because my JW friend recently stopped talking to me. I’m not nor have I ever been a JW, and she was raised in it but didn’t study or do anything until her late 30’s. She was THE party girl in the 90’s and I was her free baby sitter. ( literally her daughter lived with me for months at a time with no financial help from my friend ). We’ve been friends for 40 years… she married my bio sister ex husband. Actually my sister and him were getting back together and he had a one night stand with my friend and my sister called everything off. He lied to my friend and told her my sister made it up because she was jealous and they ended up getting married. Now she is fully engulfed in her religion and was trying to recruit me. She didn’t like me asking biblical questions though and would talk down to me often. She would tell me to humble myself to her and just believe without question. I had a disagreement with her bio sister ( who is like my sister too after 40 yrs), and my friend wouldn’t hear my side and cut me off. I’m literally in shock because her and my sister have had disagreements and I stayed neutral. She can’t even hear my side? Does 40 yrs mean nothing to her? Looking back over the years I can see I was a giver and she was a taker. I feel angry though. How did I never see this before, and how could someone be so disregarding? Any advice or answers would be appreciated. ❤

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

First, I'm so sorry. This is unfortunately, very, very common when someone begins their journey as a JW. They tend to be hyper vigilant in following the rules and eliminating those they love that may question their decision. It sounds like she may struggle with some personal issues as well... but when JWs, and frankly, religions in general, get their hooks into a troubled person, that person tends to follow the rules....even going beyond the spirit of the rules. It sounds like whoever she 'studied' with in JWs discouraged her from having friends outside the religion. This stuff is exactly why I consider JWs to be a cult. I personally lost family and friends of 40 years. They believe associating with anyone that doesn't agree with them will get them killed down the road.

[@caramelapplequeen]

Your show is a bright spot in my week! I grew up JW, from age 14-21. I do not have a single lasting friendship from that time. But a school friend I’ve had for 30+ years & work for ten or more. So worldly won out in that 😅Thank you, Stacy!

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Hi Caramel! LOL, so glad your other friendships won out! Mine too! Growing up in that hellscape tends to leave scars, so glad you're out!!

[@Estee.Ar.6869]

Another fantastic podcast. I'm hungry for a Hawaiian pizza now. I'm gonna call up a friend for lunch.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

LOL, I'll have a slice....with or without pineapple!!!

[@racthe1595]

Aww, the topic of 'friends'.When it comes to the JWs, they tell on themselves in paragraph 1, then try to do damage-control in paragraph 2. I, personally, wouldn't die for any witness, they're not worth my life.I know, I sound like a bitch for saying that, but it’s true.I don't know any individual JW(on a deeper level) in the cong., I attend.I'm heavily guarded when it comes to them.Individuals may consider me her/his friend, but the feeling isn't mutual.JWs aren't even on the list of people I think of when I want to do (or go) anywhere(thing), I rather do it (or go) alone. Oh, & I have a best friend that's a man(non-JW), & it's a platonicly deep friendship for over 30+ yrs.Platonic(& most importantly, unconditional) friendships are rare, but can happen.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Friendships are a treasure, so glad you have them!! YES, JW relationships are all based on conditions. They're not authentic or warm... they claim they would die for you, but will shun you and drive right by you on a road without looking at you. Cult.

[@marchi.fleming]

I realize this isn't your stated goal Stacey, but while I always enjoy & frequently learn new things from your show, this week you REALLY unintentionally helped me with something I've been struggling with quite a bit lately. Dunno if you recall, I'm one of your "never a J-ho" (which is SO much funnier than "J-dub" but I guess not everyone can have the sophisticated sense of humor of a 14-yr old like me lol) listeners who tunes in just for the soul-edifying knowledge of hearing what ppl who 'woke up' NOW see they were a part of...so while im not yr target audience, it's a testement to your talky-good abilities that others can learn lessons from yr perspectives. 👍🏼😊 (Edit to add: I am a copy editor. Like, that's what I do, for $$. However, a few years ago I realized I **simply cannot** edit myself (I mean like not properly, I do go back & correct myself, editing is a whole other thing & I only say this bcuz other places I've mentioned this I've literally had someone bother to say like "oH sO YoU neVeR miSspElL aNytHInG?? mUsT bE nIcE!!" or similar dumbsh!ttery 🙄 ANYWAY), or I will go 1000% completely starkers lol. Thus I have become EVEN MORE of a wordy b!tch than my natural tendencies dictate, & for that I very sincerely apologize. Consider this an "intermission".😂) I couldn't help given some recent familial issues feeling I'M being the JWs in the situation. I've had to cut off some relationships due to somewhat recent shifts in the political zeitgeist (which, incidentally, means "time ghost"!! 😁). **They** see it as me being an "intolerant of different opinions" brat, whereas I see it as their support of certain ppl - WHATEVER their stated reasons - condones attitudes & behaviors & beliefs I find to be extremely harmful & morally repellant. THEY say "it's not that deep, yo", & I feel like how on earth can it be anything OTHER than "that deep, yo", ya get me? Hence, because **I** am the one being inflexible, the one choosing - however reluctantly - to no longer engage with people who "have beliefs that are different to mine", I'm being the J-ho in this scenario, right?? Well, NO, & that's what this show made me realize. I'm not rejecting them for not believing what **I** believe, I'm rejecting their support of persons who have beliefs that society at large, the WORLD over, has deemed belong in the flaming dumpster of history. They claim to not hold those beliefs personally, & I know they definitely haven't in the past...but then why choose to support those ppl AT ALL?? AND, most crucially...I didn't make the decision to "disassociate" from family members - CLOSE, sibling-type family members - bcuz 9 guys in upstate NY who run a publishing company TOLD ME TO. Or bcuz anyone else from anywhere else who run anything else TOLD ME TO. **I** made that choice, based on MY & ONLY MY core values, sense of right & wrong, etc (y'know, morals, which I only just found out last Tuesday atheists can **actually have** 😮!! How cool is that?!). I did so after much painful internal debate, & anguish, & after tolerating WAAAAAAAY more than was good for my mental health. And I still hate it every minute of every day. So anyway I hope you enjoyed my Atlantic article lol & thx again for helping me understand - in this particular situation at least - **I** am not the as$hole. 😁

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

WOW, thanks Marchi! LOL, I loved your post :) I could use a great copywriter! LOL, I love your sense of humor! Very interesting, I appreciate you sharing that.... there are so many intangibles that impact relationships and I don't blame you for walking away from people that don't feed your soul. I hope we all do that. There is no one person that is for 'everyone'... and when you just don't agree on some of life's most important things, it's going to be hard as hell to be 'friends' .... Friendship is such a big subject that it's hard to capture all the details. But in the end, we simply choose our friends based on things we have in common. I have no problem excluding people as friends that don't support some tenants that mean a lot to me: child safety, kindness, openness, etc. I don't 'shun' them, but we won't likely be friends. Good for you!

[@snookered3gen781]

The world of JW friendships messed me up for decades. I remember as a kid being told I couldn't be friends with my classmates as they were worldy and could not be my real friends while meanwhile at the KH I had to deal with all the mean girls. I was so confused as to why I could not count on my fellow JW kids to be my real friends like they were supposed to be. I could not go to my classmate's parties but was left out of the "witness" parties. It was all so cruel. I remember thinking these people would not give up their lives for me and quite honestly I would not for them. Then I endured watching my kids go through the same thing. When we left nobody came looking for us, our so called JW friends were scared to death of us even though we just quietly left. I do miss a few people but am grateful and relieved to not have to endure the JW conversations about how close the end has to be and how pointed the counsel is getting and how we need to leave it in Jehovah's hands, etc. My only real friends are the worldy people that I made real friendships with over the years and the new ones I am creating. Oh and yes I like pineapple on my pizza and if you don't that is just fine.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

I'm so sorry snookered! Your story is common to so many of us. The way they will endure years of boredom knocking on doors and then turn their back on someone that is already a friend.....it's unbelievable. We call come to a brutal reality that no one cares. It's all based on an 'empty' friendship. It's a terrible feeling....but once you're free, it feels incredible!

[@mademoisellevanilla2561]

What a great podcast, first time listening to you, and just subscribed! I’m not a jw, but I can totally relate to this. I was attending meetings when I was living with my jw aunt for straight four years, two decades ago. Developed friendships within the congregation, and even relented to Bible studies. They were good, fun people my age, so it was not that boring whenever they have "limited free time" during the weekend. We go to the movies, amusement parks, eat out, etc It was fun, I loved hanging out with them. Until one day, one of my so-called jw friends phoned me, and said she can't hang out with me anymore because I am not a jw. I thought that was childish and shallow of them. From thne on, I didn’t entertain any more bible studies with them, even though women from the congregation were like sharks hovering over me to continue studying. But good riddance, as I didn't want to be a jw, anyway.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Hi! Thanks for listening! Oh yes, your story is VERY familiar, it's the norm among JWs. If you're not one of them, you're told you're 'worldly' and must get baptized or will die at Armageddon. I'm SO glad you got out!

[@broncosbest6441]

This is a business. The friends that you may think you have are nothing but business associates. So when you leave the business all association is gone. The ones that break the rules may get terminated from employment. Stone cold but true because if the org allows association that cannot control what information is shared. High control environments must control information in order to keep control of the subjects

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

VERY well said. You're part of a quasi pyramid scheme in someone's downline. Stop selling? Bye bye......never was a friendship

[@broncosbest6441]

@@survivingparadisepodcast Sad but true! Important for those who leave to prepare themselves!

[@Wideawake4]

My spouse and I are inactive. Not going to meetings right now. Not df’d. Not doing anything at all “bad”. Haven’t said anything to anybody but we are already basically being shunned. Our young kids have jw friends that they have played with online for quite some time. Now they are all ignoring our kids calls and texts. It’s so sad. Don’t even know what to tell our children. They haven’t done anything wrong.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

It breaks my heart to read this WideAwake, but I'm not surprised in the least. You're likely seen as 'weak' or worse. They don't need an announcement to start treating you so cruelly. And the treatment to children is incredible. Innocent kids who don't know any better, suddenly, treated like they have a plague....and you've done nothing. But the organization is really doubling down on this stuff and ostracizing and shunning anyone less than enthusiastic about all things JW. I'm so sorry. You're being treated this way simply because you're not doing what THEY want you to do :(

[@Eric_01]

What's even worse, if it can be, is that the kids that are being told to shun your kids, are hurting as well and do not understand. You know full well there is some squalling at those homes due to children for no concept they understand are being demanded to suddenly not be friends with other children. Grownups can at least see the big picture, even if it's a picture of sh!t sandwich, kids do not.

[@Wideawake4]

@@survivingparadisepodcast Thank you so much ❤️ it really sucks. Our kids have no idea why this is happening to them and I honestly don’t know what to even tell them. Breaks my heart. I just keep telling them they haven’t done anything wrong. I need to get them involved in some more activities so hopefully they can meet some new friends.

[@Wideawake4]

@@Eric_01 I thought of that too. It’s awful. Totally unfair for them as well. To be cut off from their good friends 😔

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@Wideawake4 horrible. Innocent kids. But this is VERY common in JWs. The children of DF'd people are often left out of everything and treated different. If the congregation thinks your family is weak, they will distance themselves from you... and that includes the kids :( I'm so sorry. I hope they have other friends?

[@jackijax505]

3 words .. SPOT F()CKING ON!!!!

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Thanks Jacki!!

[@sunstrikedancesportjymcole]

Love the contrast of being friends with David! As always ridiculously crazy things we did as Witnesses

[@tzoppgaming4074]

❤

[@nicholsonlawrance5821]

Thankfully my mother did not stop me being friends with whom I wanted. So it came as a suprise as I realised Jw propoganda make it very clear friendship is conditional (Perhaps i wasn't a very good JW). Thanks for another interesting broadcast.

[@terridovey7648]

It makes you a very smart person. 👍👍

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

THAT is a great mother!!!

[@migdaliafuentes1618]

And not only the elderest (elders wife) know the problem they will give hints to the congregation and the gossip starts. And you the sinner will be marked for the rest of your life! I remember this sister that was exspelled in a congregation far away, and she became the fiancée of a MS in our congregation. And the day of her marriage everybody already knew her sin in our congregation

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

All very, very true! You may like the episode on Gossip and Slander!

[@universeworld1782]

What if Shakespeare had a Sister? Virginia Wolfe And His Sister wrote that quote?

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Look at you....well said! Was that from Virginia Wolfe??

[@universeworld1782]

@@survivingparadisepodcast yes!

[@Eric_01]

I have a question for any PIMOs. We've been getting handwritten letters inviting people to the conventions sent to our mailboxes with our NAMES and addressed to us personally by people we do not know. Does anyone know where or how they obtain mailing lists that would have people's names? Just sending to random addresses is one thing, personalizing letters to strangers is creepy AF.

[@randyg.7940]

👽

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

😎

[@myongsoon7830]

U can say that again about friendship

[@phil6740]

Not only the limitation on only jws as friends but also only friends on your level- maybe +- 1 level , kind of like a caste system. If you joined the wrong hall later in life ( after 19) you were screwed . I kind of miss the district conventions in corvallis one of the few times you could meet new people and it was nice campus.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

So true! Wow, you went to Corvallis? I used to set up the sound there back in the day.....ah, memories!

[@thetruthk5138]

Afraid the JW friendship is conditional and just more box ticking. Real friends accept us as we are imperfect and that's the way i accept my friends they make mistakes and i don't judge them. Although being a former JW judging runs pretty deep and its not nice and certainly not Christian.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

YES!!! Imagine ending a friendship over "I love pineapple on my pizza, but you don't.....so let's NOT be friends"....... It's a cult.

[@Coral-lu5hi]

Yes, I had the experience. I foolishly cut off everyone after becoming JW, and today I am friendless. However, I am not too worried b/c I meet people and have great conversations, but making friends is very difficult.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@Coral-lu5hi I'm so sorry Coral!!! (((HUGS))) stay the course, new friends will come!

[@Jeron_Benton]

Hey Stacy you mind if I share this video on my social media ? I know there’s a lot of ppl out there that needs to watch this

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Not at all, thanks Jeron!

[@b1crusade384]

32:12 What Bible do you read? In the ones I have read, there is no hint of David and Jonathan being gay. LGBT if whatever it is currently called was not done in Ancient Israel. It was a European thing. It is forbidden in the Old Testament and in the latter New Testament. David and Jonathan were just good friends.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Many, many, MANY debates about their relationship. Bottom line is that you have to take the cultural aspect into account, as well as the fact that we will never truly know. However, the source of this is 2 Samuel 1:26. Many Bible's translate as "he loved Jonathan more than women" or similar... long held debate. We can't use the 'homosexuality was forbidden' argument because so was their secret friendship/covenant. Likely a close friendship, but either way, impossible to know.

[@SallieB196]

What’s interesting was the majority of kids my parents “approved” of in the KH as “good association” have left and the ones my strict Elder dad deemed “troublemakers or spiritually weak” are very much in and are now the face of the new generation of witnesses and have alienated people like my parents because we didn’t go to their houses a lot they are now the “in crowd” at the KH and people like my parents seldom get invited to a lot of get togethers

[@heatherwillson4862]

Very telling. When I left, the elders were "friends to the death" with a pedo! I ran...fast! 🏃‍♂️ He wasnt even an elder, but they had his back! No god there. Yeah, interesting, yes, I was hurt, but I didnt miss my JW "friends" either.

[@anthonymeech5030]

Children of the Corn vibes, also They Live !! How to integrate into the BORG!

[@incognitofade9574]

This was such a good episode, I had to listen to it again! Shows just how shallow JW are! Everything is surface level and you can NEVER be a true authentic self.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Thanks a ton Fade; I appreciate you!

[@myongsoon7830]

Oh ur name is Stacy? Thank u

[@b1crusade384]

@34:33 David stole just one man’s wife based on the record. It was not a habit.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

He married Abigail rather rapidly after Nabal died. More of a comment on his need for lots of women. He had eight wives that the Bible names, but that was just the tip of the iceberg so to speak: 2 Samuel 5:13 - The New International Version (NIV) "After he left Hebron, David took more concubines and wives in Jerusalem, and more sons and daughters were born to him."

[@Eric_01]

Let's not forget, David not only took another man's wife, he conspired in the MURDER of her husband, successfully. Let's all hope that didn't become a habit as that was plenty bad enough and nothing to be defending.

[@b1crusade384]

@@Eric_01 Did you actually read my entire comment. Do you also know about David and Bethsheba? My comment is, he stole another man’s wife just once. Other times, women flocked to him and he has the picks from best. David has been dead from like 3,000 years. He will not be stealing another wife any time soon.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@Eric_01 David is undoubtedly the most interesting character in the Bible. So many dark, sick stuff he did...but hailed as a hero. Eventually want to discuss his character!

[@dawnbehatin1224]

Soooooo true....forced friendships, and then they shun you because you colored your hair and wear an ankle bracelet 😂.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Oh yes, the controversy over anklets!! Remember how bad it was for the sisters to have bare legs???

[@mrm8850]

i would not call a x jehovah witnesses friendship i would avoid at all cost!

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Agree!

[@TheC.O.-VISIT]

Mark Twain "Letters From The Earth", classic literature and very necessary sarcastic and satirical story about the absurdity of religion.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

.....and now you know why I like him so much ;)