Jehovah's Witnesses on Higher Education: Over One Hundred Years of Keeping People Dumbed Down

[@DY2784]

👋 Sir, you speak the truth. I refused a 4-yr University scholarship, then went on to several assemblies to tell my story of "Faith in Jehovah" because back then I was a true believer of the nonsense. My Mom put Her foot down, read me the riot act and made me go to a local college to obtain an Associate's degree. Thanks Mom for your wisdom and courage! We're talking early 80s, when She was soft-shunned and labeled "materialistic" for several years. That bit of education back then, and updating my skills continuously, helped me immensely throughout my entire work life. Education matters, so do savings and investments; Educate yourselves as much as possible and act accordingly. You'll NEVER regret it! 👍🥰

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

I can't be happier to read this! GREAT JOB MOM!!!! For those that didn't fully 'obey' or had a parent encourage school, I salute you....and those people tend to be doing better. Fantastic job!

[@Charleneslife-23]

I grew up in Jamaica where it is almost impossible to get a decent paying job without higher eduction. Started working full time straight out of high school. The elders children all went to university and I didn’t. Parents were poor and though I had the ability there was no one to help. Even though I thought the end was coming very soon I knew I needed an education to be able to live comfortably. Went to evening classes after working a full time job. Got some more subjects. 4 years after working full time and taking evening classes, I left Jamaica for England to go to college. I was still a JW though and I still didn’t take my courses seriously. Now at the age of 45 I’m going back to school to gain qualification as a Chartered Accountant. I’m determined to finish it even though I’m working full time in the process. I’m no longer a JW and I no longer live in fear of Armageddon.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Wow! I'm so glad you're doing what YOU want to do! Incredible that this shameful message reaches every country. I'm so glad you're free!!

[@lizzidpeepole]

Yeah. You got this. Awesome story.

[@katherineburford7864]

You can do it!

[@CapoPhil1914]

I graduated in 89. Did not do college. Took many years to advance in the company I worked for bc I did not have the college behind me. I am now the Industrial Sustainability Environment and Energy Manager for an international confectionary company, but it took nearly 30 years to reach that. I wish I could go back and speak to my younger self. The flip flops the WT have done over the years is just mind blowing.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

GREAT JOB!! But yep.....doors close in this world without a degree; it's just a fact.

[@Estee.Ar.6869]

You are so on point! I ignored the Society and went to college. I'm now retired.

[@labelle8110]

Same here!

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Inspiring!! I love it!!

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@labelle8110 so glad to read this!

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@Comment-Eri Wow, I'm really happy to see these posts about those 'rebels' that didn't listen!

[@labelle8110]

@@survivingparadisepodcast I am a PIMO and I am finishing my 2nd degree ( MBA) during COVID time. When I saw people who had gone to college given priority for Bethel. That is all I needed to know. The double standards were blatant….

[@Des7iny7]

Recently in England, an elder was disfellowshipped, along with his family, for ‘allowing’ his 16 year old daughter to ‘attend higher education’. The problem is, it’s mandatory in ENG, until they’re 18!! The family didn’t have a choice, and still got booted out for it😆 How amazing it is, to wake in the morning and have that immediate freeness of mind and body, knowing just how free from slavery I am right now ☺️ God bless for your work, bro..🕊💕🙏🏻

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

WHAT?? That's incredible!! I hope he took his entire family and RAN from this terrible cult. Imagine having that kind of control over someone's family?!

[@Des7iny7]

@@survivingparadisepodcast how ridiculous are they😂 and scary 😈 those poor kids 🕊

[@broncosbest6441]

You can leave school in the U.K. at 16 providing you have a job or apprenticeship to go to after GCSE’s. Of course not justifying the decision as it’s absolutely ridiculous and I assume it’s outside a major city or town in England?

[@nataliew.thetrader9880]

*I was one of these kids! I was told to drop out of high school and that I can only leave my house if married. Meanwhile I saw my peers being abused my men in their congregation older than their father. The parents are not mentally well to allow their kids to be sexually interrogated by the leaders.*

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

It is one of the most disturbing things I experienced as an elder. To allow a minor to enter a room with three men to discuss intimate things is so awful it defies logic. Oh yes, dropping out of school was encouraged in the west, as was home schooling. At one time there were JW schools in California

[@anniesavedbygrace]

The watchtower are asking elders to discreetly ask for those ones who are already qualified lawyers to go work for them. It's not a public announcement. Proves to me the teaching of not going through higher education is still on fire within the org. But also that they are hypocrites. They need the use of educated men but only secretly. Disgusting.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

They will actually pay for Bethelites to further their education while there.....hypocrisy. It's on every screen during this convention....all possible by means of many college educated people working for nothing in NY

[@stopdrinkingthekoolaid9543]

Crushing it bro! ExJW in the house. I was lucky I got kicked out and then I got woke. Blessing in disguise.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Thank you! I appreciate you listening!! FREEDOM!

[@hustonmices3976]

My father always pushed higher education on me. I never thought watchtower would take care of me so I went to college. It helped me get into the medical field and I’m glad I didn’t listen to those morons. A vast field of opportunities opened for me that I’ll be able to retired before I hit 50 and will be living my best life ever! Hehehe.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

I'm so happy to read that Huston! I wish I had been more disobedient. I was very brainwashed in those years...and I've paid for it. Good for you! We are all coming to your house LOL

[@hustonmices3976]

Come on down! 👍🏼

[@lizzidpeepole]

Cheers! Lol feels good to say and wish I could give you a real clink.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@lizzidpeepole I'd take that real clink!!!

[@tellusorbit]

Thank you so much for your podcasts. I have only now discovered them and am an avid supporter. I am a senior citizen now. I became a Witness in 1976 while an engineering student at a big university. Watchtower propaganda convinced me to leave school without my degree, convinced the end was right around the corner. The next twenty years saw me doing jobs that were unsatisfying and unfulfilling before I decided to go back to college while in my forties. It was the best decision I could have made. I earned degrees in geography and mathematics and had a wonderful career in education that enabled me to earn a good living and teach and inspire many young people. I wouldn't trade that for anything. Additionally, I left the Witnesses seventeen years ago and have been all the better for it. My advice to any and all is to follow your dreams and use your God-given talents no matter your age. Education is key to doing this. And remember these words of George Eliot: "It is never too late to be what you might have been."

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Thanks Raymond and I'm so glad you got out! Your story is VERY inspiring...thank you for sharing this!

[@disassociated1731]

i relate very much to your story, because I had myself this experience to teach young adults, i m now retired, but looking back to my life, helping these young men and women to learn and fulfil their dreams is a consolation for my bringing many good people to jworg in the mid 70’s, some of them never found the way out as i did thirty five years ago

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@disassociated1731 So great to see you found a way to happiness by helping others, despite you missing out on so much. I'm always so happy to read that people found a way out AND something to do that makes them happy

[@disassociated1731]

@@survivingparadisepodcast of course, this is the best way when you leave the org. A well payed job, which make sense and is useful. For me, it was also completing the upraising of my kids out of jworg, discovering a new country, a new culture. Later I founded also another family, in which unconditional love and reasoning was more important than following a strict jw law code, all this resulted in so many happy years.

[@lk1590]

Watchtower should be sued collectively by all those who were impacted during the 70s, 80s and 90s. They owe to all the lives they held back.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

They've had devastating impact on so many people's lives. I would wholeheartedly support that lawsuit!!

[@johnnycroat]

especially since the Watchtower is living their Spiritual Paradise while many members are suffering. The leadership is so out of touch.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@johnnycroat they've been out of touch for over a century

[@jtf10469]

Do you see that land they purchased in Warwick? Moved headquarters out of Brooklyn. Too bad members are not in a financial position to ever make a move like that. Impressive for a strictly “donation based” corporation

[@johnnycroat]

@@jtf10469 as a kid I offered the Watchtower and Awake for 10cents in the 70's to cover the cost of the paper and ink. I guess donations cover more than just that

[@ismaelamadot3893]

Hello brother. Just great!! Everything 💯 percent true. Stay healthy and continue the fight. You have God's blessing. Amador, Kingdom Christian from sunny Puerto Rico.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Thank you Ismael! I'm jealous....need to get to Puerto Rico!

[@nataliegrandauthorofcultgi1231]

*Such great info!!! This isn’t the sort of the things they will tell the house holder when they recruit them. I have a leaked letter of the branch removing an elder over their daughter going to college. Most my friends that were girls raised in it didn’t graduate high school, they were house cleaners and most of them engaged by 18, because you can’t leave the house unless you are married. It’s so terrible!!*

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

This! It's a very real, high control 'teaching' that they pound young people with....most of my generation did what your friends did. My ex-wife became a house cleaner, my cousin...all of us married as teenagers. INSANE!

[@andreachapman7331]

And outstanding podcast which connected deeply on so many levels with my own journey. I was gifted in art and encouraged to go to TAFE College however I started pioneering. To be truthful there was an element of fear of failure that kept me from pushing myself. As all good Jehovah’s Witnesses I married at 20 And my husband was 23, an electrical engineer, pushed by his father who was not a Jehovah’s Witness and was not going to let him waste his brain. I left the religion in my early 30s Along with my siblings and parents, it was my mother who researched it and discovered the lies. At 40 years old I went back to high school and got my diploma and on to university to get my degree in fine art and visual culture. I graduated in my early 50s In June I celebrated my 40th wedding anniversary and my husband (still a JW) and I are both retired and work from home. Through his amazing and well paying job we have helped both our children with their education. I love my saviour and was born again five years ago, the joy I get in reading my bible and loving my life cannot be measured. How my marriage works is deep respect for one another... I will win him over without a word. It was extremely fragile at times, not always easy but worth the journey.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Andrea that is an amazing story!! I'm so happy for you and thank you for sharing this. I hope it inspires a young person who may be a Jehovah's Witness to think twice before giving up on their dreams. Thanks again for your great story and thanks for listening!

[@xoxo20000]

Im in my early 30s now. I'm a millennial born in the early 90s. They were still discouraging us from going to persue higher education from the 2000s & early 2010s. I haven't been back in about 10 years. I left the religion for a variety of reasons, but the frowning upon bettering yourself with higher education was probably the biggest reason I left.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

YES! They openly discouraged people and they're still do it! I'm so glad you broke free!

[@user-TheTruth]

This one touched a nerve because I had a scholarship in the early eighties, I went to college because my Dad wasn’t a witness and encouraged me to go . But I was treated like a leper in the congregation. My guilt overwhelmed me so much because I believed this crap that my Mom was ingraining in me that I dropped out in less than a year ! Guess what , I was looked up to in the congregation after dropping out ! Now I was used and told to use my example of dropping out to help other young people not to even go to college. I feel so bad about that but since waking up I’ve also helped others find out the truth about the truth ! Fortunately for me I still had a relatively successful career but my full potential was never realized! I love your topics even though some sting more than others ! Keep up the great work ...

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Just reading this made me sick to my stomach. I'm so sorry! Unbelievable!! Someone I was very close to was up for Rhodes Scholarship, gave it up and worked 9-5 as a glorified project manager until his death. It's sickening. He was held up as an 'example' as well.....I'm so glad you woke up, but you can't get back that time. It's beyond criminal!

[@user-TheTruth]

You’re right, I can’t get that time back ! I try to live my best life now in a clean moral respectable way , the Org thinks we will fall apart without them but that’s the furthest from the truth ! When I get up the nerve I’d like to come on your show when you start having guest and tell my story ! Right now I’m still a bit to nervous to step out like that, I truly admire what you do , I feel like we have many things in common ! I’ve turned a few of my friends on to your sight and they love and relate to what you say ..... thanks again Stacey !

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@user-TheTruth They openly preach that everyone going to college is in danger of sliding into drugs, orgies and hate for god. It's so comical! I would love to do that down the road.....I want to start having people on (when they're ready) to talk about our experiences!

[@c.t8958]

I had to go before a full body of elders who had to reevaluate my qualifications as an elder just because my son went to college!!

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

And there you have it: A real world example as read from the pages of the elder's handbook! Unbelievable.....sorry you went through that CT, but thrilled to hear your son went to college! You gotta wonder if it ever crossed their minds that your son (and any person that age) are now ADULTS and making their own choices....but they come after you.

[@Des7iny7]

They were checking you for the 666 mark😉

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@Des7iny7 🤣

[@nickking8994]

30 years born in, I left 22 years ago. My folks held me back from going to school until 1976 due to the " time of the end", took me out of school in 9th grade. That sounds terrible, but I learned construction skills and worked herd for the last 32 years, the last 4 as an owner of a business. Soo glad I left, hard work and all I have never been happier! The cult is crazier than ever, thanks Stacy for your humor on this! Agape!

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Nick, so glad you got out and it's always inspiring to see people doing well! Many kids I grew up with were yanked out of school at a young age. I think modern JW's would be blown away at how common that was back in the day. The current district convention shows how they continue to grow their own brand of 'evil'

[@heatherwillson4862]

@@survivingparadisepodcast Sadly, it is still very common for them to be taken out of school. All my grand kids were taken out. I feel so bad for them!!!💔

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@heatherwillson4862 It's sickening to know that this is still happening with kids!!!

[@willyb933]

Outstanding Podcast Stacy and thank you for posting it. I just watched Tony Morris in a talk (obviously recent) say "I always say, the better the University, the greater the danger!.) This Cult is a very real danger to young people who are defenseless because of circumstances. I'm born in 65 yr old and I can attest to the absolute aggression the Cult took against any form of higher education even Trade Schools back in the day. I know personally of an Elder chastised by the body of Elders for sending his son to Trade school rather than pioneer after high school.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Thanks willyb! You touched on the very reason I do this: help protect kids, children, young adults from this cult. You and I aren't far apart in age and it was a full scale assault in those days. I know of elders removed for their kids going to college. Imagine thinking "Jesus" is behind all of this....

[@quisthegreat13-KalEl]

This was point on brotha ... I work late alot and take my job seriously and my grandmother used to tell me why climb a ladder thats coming down

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Yep, we have all heard those ridiculous one liners that deeply damaged the way we think. Generations of people struggling.

[@davidhughes6883]

You are spot on with what you are saying. The society was not subtle in their efforts to discourage higher education, I repeatedly heard it during meetings and read it in the publications. Because I was born in, I was a good student. I had been reading along at five meetings a week my entire life. I followed the rules in school, (mostly because I was afraid “The Great Tribulation” would start at any day). I was in the 5th grade in 1975 and my first few years of school I was told I needed to learn as much as I could because I would never be able to finish school in this “old system of things.” I was identified as gifted in school in first grade. I took the most advanced math class offered at my high school and passed with an A. I had a full scholarship. My mother said she would not support me if I took it. I turned it down to pioneer. Part of my disillusionment with the organization began when I realized I was not prepared to support myself, much less the young sister I wanted to marry (because, like you said that is what you did). I have the same resentment, anger, and bitterness against the society that you mention because I was not able to pursue what I wanted in life. Because I left around 1985 I was able to find an alternative career, but I will never get the years I lost following the bogus teachings and instructions from the WB&TS.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

I am always SO glad to learn of those that didn't completely fall for it like I did. I gave up everything believing none of it mattered, I just needed to serve Jehovah. A massive mistake with lots of repercussions now at my age. I have a TON of anger I continue to work through regarding all the lost time and potential!

[@dantoinettetaylor1663]

I started studying while I was a freshman had briefly toyed with the idea of dropping out of university to become a pioneer but good sense prevailed and my degree landed me a fabulous job that gave me a career to afford me a great lifestyle- my beloved sister had died suddenly during my 2nd year and this made me more vulnerable to JW teachings about sacrificing for the Organisation to be able to see her again in paradise

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

I'm so glad to read you did that! They prey on pain.....I'm so sorry about your sister. JW's literally go to cemetery's and hand out tracts to grieving people!!

[@johnnycroat]

Would you apply to a company that had a sign outside that read " Going out of Business" ? So why would you go for higher education if this system is coming to a end shortly...You don't need to be told not to go to college you just need to hear a question. Heard this enough times growing up

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

LOL, I literally remember hearing that 'illustration' from the stage at a circuit assembly. They aren't very original 🤣

[@lizzidpeepole]

Yup

[@mattmurdock2868]

Now it's Watchtower going out of business...

[@vusimngomezulu2500]

All different churches including exjws are Jesus's followers according to the Bible?,?????‽?

[@vusimngomezulu2500]

@@survivingparadisepodcast All different churches including exjws are Jesus's followers according to the Bible????????

[@angelc813]

I’m filled with regret and bitterness regarding this very subject. I excelled in high school, particularly Language Arts. One of my teachers pulled me aside and informed me that each year the teachers choose one student in their classes as their honor student and he chose me. He told me I was in a good position to receive so many scholarships. I told him I wasn’t going to college as my religion forbade it. He was so upset. Before we parted ways he told me it would break his heart if years later he finds me wasting my talents working at a gas station. Years later, here I am, in my fifties, with no college education and desperately wanting more independence and freedom. Too much was taken from each and every one of us. It’s just criminal.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Angel, I can't tell you how much I struggle with the same thing. It makes me sick to know you missed out on that opportunity. Those that listened and tried to be loyal at every level to 'jehovah' have suffered a loss they can't replace. I still have lingering anger and resentment myself. They robbed us....and all we did was obey. :(

[@angelc813]

@@survivingparadisepodcast I’m sorry you struggle with these things as well. It’s not as though they stole a possession that can be replaced, they stole time. None of us can ever replace that. THEY are “like thieves in the night.” We didn’t realize we’d wake up one day and look back to find our youth has come to pass with little to show for it. Stacey (sp?), please try to find some solace in the fact that your podcast is helping so many people. I find great comfort in listening to your very well put together and very informative podcast. I’ll keep referring people to you. Thank you for providing a place for us so we can feel free to share and feel understood. It means a lot to feel understood and a sense of fitting in when the cult always caused so many to feel isolated.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@angelc813 Thank you Angel, you're very sweet. If unpacking the insanity helps one person, especially young people, to avoid this cult....it's worth every second!

[@disassociated1731]

I have been out for 35 years, and this nowadays forbidding of higher education upsets me so much… I hadn t noticed that, as I m living in a country were Jws are not allowed. Especially because I myself was a teacher at college during 30 y and when I meet former students who are now 50 y old they show so much thanks for what my teaching brought to them.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@disassociated1731 Wow, incredible story Disa....and thank you for educating young people. Candidly, the higher education (and the fact that I obeyed them in not going) is a very difficult subject for me as well. It's criminal!

[@coldboltlighting1237]

Hey I’m 24 years old Surviving paradise I’m going to get my GED and then go to college to be a genetic engineering or be a biologist.. wish me luck going to need a lot of it!!! I’m Rebelling against the watchtower. And going for it!! I wish I did this when I was 19 but hey better then 50 and being sad that I didn’t do it!!! No risk no reward!!!

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

YES!! Go get it!! Don't listen to a word they say...keep us updated!

[@coldboltlighting1237]

@@survivingparadisepodcast also have you heard that the governing body has just approved of going back door to door!? Nooooooooo😭😭😭😭😭😤😤😤😤

[@coldboltlighting1237]

If I have to go back out I will be doing cart witnessing so I don’t have to bother people at the door!

[@staceybaumann5741]

@@coldboltlighting1237 I sure did and it's going to fail miserably in this current climate! Imagine having unwanted people at your door to tell them to agree or die??

[@coldboltlighting1237]

Bro it’s been a year and I’m getting closer to my goal!

[@jackijax505]

What irks me is that back in the 70’/80’s/90’s there were plenty of jobs to get while you went to school. EVERYTHING was extremely cheaper & affordable. When we were young, we could live at home & get it done. At least I could because I didn’t get my indoctrination until my early 20’s and was the only one in my family to become a jw. Smack dab in the middle of going to Jr. College. I think it was a year when I got baptized & 6 months after that that I became a regular pioneer, went to pioneer school, got married because it was the right thing to do & lived to regret all those decisions to this day in my 50’s. We didn’t have internet back then so we couldn’t do the needed organization research. A lot of extended family practically disowned me for being a jw, stopped inviting me to family gatherings & I got shunned from ‘WORLDLY’ family. Becoming a jw, I lost family & got shunned, then after becoming one & getting df’ed I was shunned by the organization. I couldn’t win either way. Even after being reinstated it was never the same & the stigma was unreal. It was absolutely f*cked up! If you’re studying, RUN! Get an education. Go live your life YOUR way. Be happy.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

You're not alone Jacki! My path was VERY similar!! Times have changed dramatically and I know many of our generation are stuck in so many ways. It's criminal what they did to us as young people!!

[@anniesavedbygrace]

I was one of the lucky ones in education in the early 90's. The only one in my congregation that went to college (uk). I made a deal with JW mother that I would remain at home and continue at the meetings if I was allowed to continue my education into 6th form (16 to 18) and college. Thanks to that I managed to get a saturday job (field service ministry on a sunday morning) with my studies and then onto a decent paid fulltime employment giving me the means to move out just before I turned 18 and leave JW unbaptised. 38 minute mark....yes I was one that was in that group in the early 90's when parents were softened to education.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

You were so smart you little rebel 😁I only wish I had been more disobedient to this ridiculous message. It's inspiring to read that you got out!

[@lizzidpeepole]

My congregation kept it old school in the 90s. I had meetings with principals and took shit from sharp teachers for not applying myself. I had the brains and they were frustrated with the obvious waste due to brainwashing. I could have pushed but hey we are never growing old. 42 is older than I projected seeing, not sure about you guys.

[@GlennKnoebel]

Stacy, I stumbled upon your podcast when I awoke late one night and couldn’t get back to sleep. I am not a JW, instead am an atheist, but have a brother who is a JW in NY. I live in Pittsburgh very near the cemetery where that watchtower monument resided. Growing up and frequently passing that, to me as a kid, that very ominous pyramid, never realized the significance of that monument. Now that it’s gone I would really like to take a closer look at it, oh well. I enjoy your talks and will never understand the lack of desire to want to know more of… anything. JW is certainly doomed a with the access to internet, you can’t hide the truth. Thanks again for your tireless work in revealing the truth about this cult.

[@broncosbest6441]

I ignored this red flag when I studied with the JWs and told them that I education was vital and my two children would be instructed to go and pursue their education. They said that it was down to conscience and a personal choice. Encouraged them to pursue outside interests. Years later despite pushing education my child who was a straight a student left her degree to do a minimum wage job slapped on the back by JWs. Spent last 4 years telling her she is going to regret this to be cut off now as I left years ago. Don’t raise your children as JWs so when they are struggling it’s on your conscience. You sacrifice them for a business that’s all this is nothing to do with God.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

YES! I'm VERY sorry for your experience, but if nothing else is ever accomplished with this little podcast, my hope is that at least ONE parent/person will protect a child from this life altering pain!

[@broncosbest6441]

@@survivingparadisepodcast No doubt it will achieve that. I’ve met a lot of JWs who’s children accuse them of ruining their childhood and their future. So although feeling stupid I wasn’t totally stupid! The reason why they remove elders whose children go to university is they lose their freeness of speech to tell you as the parent not to sent your child. Ironically the elder who came to counsel us had 2 go but stay at home while they did their degree. The circuit I was in so many of the youngsters were doing degrees that the circuit got counselled every single time regarding it when c/o came

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@broncosbest6441 I'm thrilled to hear that kids are going! I can just imagine the endless talks and 'counsel' that resulted...and you're right on the freeness of speech issue. Elders and their kids are going to be a topic on this show! There are entire generations of kids that feel their childhood was ruined .... it's criminal

[@broncosbest6441]

@@survivingparadisepodcast It was about 70% degree/professional qualification among the youngsters in the congregation I was in. Not saying that is normal in the U.K. but was in the circuit I was in. One of the older members of the congregation made a comment that she didn’t know why so many were studying law as the society had no use for lawyers😂🤣😂 and none would be needed in the new system

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@broncosbest6441 Unbelievable! And isn't it something that the older generation of JW's are so gullible to what is going on right under their noses?? They don't need lawyers??? LOL.....it's the fastest growing 'department' at Bethel.... litigation gets more attention than preaching!

[@MJ-ej5ok]

My father who was a JW encouraged higher education, I always wondered why growing up . It was because he moved through 75….. I’m grateful I went to college and college education I feel lead me out of the organization. Listening comparing what I was being taught was key to me leaving …. As always great podcast

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Thank you Jane! Wow, I'm actually fascinated by those that were balanced during those years and gave their kids hope. GREAT job dad! Thank you for listening!

[@MJ-ej5ok]

@@survivingparadisepodcast yes I’m very grateful…. But on another note I do suffer from resentment for my dad think how can he have subjected us to that organization

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@MJ-ej5ok I understand those emotions more than you know. Several relatives I truly love but I sense resentment towards from my youth. How did they not see all of this? It's a tough one

[@MJ-ej5ok]

@@survivingparadisepodcast yes it is 🙏🏾

[@sharonwoodward7741]

I am one of those who was told to drop out to be a pioneer. It was in 1990 and I wanted to be a marine biologist. I had the secondary school grades to go into the course. Then 3 elders came over to see my mum and I, my dad was an unbeliever....on a so called shepherding call. It was really to tell me to pioneer. They told me that it was wrong of me to want to go to uni etc as the course I would go on is 4 years and I would end up miles from home. So I dropped the course and did a basic receptionist course instead so I could get a part time job and pioneer. I did pioneer until I woke up and I wished I had never given up my dreams for this cult. I was on my way out before my son was born and swore I would never allow him to be indoctrinated. And he is a full time professional magician. I am happy he has been able to reach his potential.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Ugh, so sorry Sharon! There are so many of us with these stories. I truly wonder what some of these elderly parents think when they look back, allowing us to be indoctrinated and miss out on our potential. I'm so glad you're free and your son is doing something he enjoys!

[@capnslippy2460]

I wanted to be a nurse growing up but I was told I can’t and should not go to college because the end was near and that we won’t need nurses in the new system.

[@danettelewis8002]

Just now listening to this video. Though it was made months ago. Great subject 👍 My JW daughter came over (to ask to borrow my car) I mentioned about my not going to college. She adamantly said that the organization doesn't discourage college. She blamed my dad(her grandfather) for being a fanatic jw. You've made this subject transparent. Thanks 👍

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Thanks Danette! That is heartbreaking....she has clearly been slightly brainwashed. The adamantly discouraged college and still do. However, it's interesting, they let up on it a bit for a few years and some JW's saw that as a chance to go to college....I'm guessing at her age, she was in that generation that got a softer message?

[@rebekahcurley6887]

I was so lucky, I left when I was 19, so I went to university and I only lost a year! But I went to tafe (that’s like a post high school trade school for non Australians) when I was 18 and I still got told off by the elders for that!! I definitely think that it’s the biggest regret for ex JWs that left later than me. I still have resentment and bitterness though that what I studied at university was heavily influenced by the subjects I was allowed to study at high school, and I didn’t pursue passions and dreams.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

So glad you were 'rebellious' and did what you wanted! I only wish I had been smarter myself! Ugh.....what happens in higher education is another convo, isn't it? I hope you're pursuing what you want to now!

[@rebekahcurley6887]

University isn’t a hotbed of fornication like the JWs would have you believe, it’s fairly boring and you have to study hard! Having said that, maybe it’s my degree (accounting) that was boring, maybe Arts subjects are more lively! No, it’s not my passion, but it’s a job that pays my bills and lets me live a comfortable life, which is a luxury that is denied many other ex JWs, and it’s very sad to see.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@rebekahcurley6887 They completely discount that people are actually there to learn. Like everything ...from work, to school, to entertainment, to health....everything....it's all going to make you slide into a life or immorality or apostasy. 🤣

[@LOH__]

Jehovah’s witnesses tell the worst knock knock jokes.

[@lizzidpeepole]

Haha. Zing

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

😂 it gets them through to their next coffee break

[@liv328]

In my early 40's (I was still PIMI) I really wanted to go to college because I loved Science and Psychology. I wasn't pursuing a degree, I just wanted to learn more. So I took Biology, Psychology, Anatomy and Physiology, Musical Theory and English Comp. I got straight A's! (Clearly I am not smart, I was indoctrinated in a cult for nearly 20 years of my life, but I was a good study) I love what I was learning and wanted to continue another semester, but I was counseled and told I would be "Marked" if I didn't stop going to College. I am now out of the cult, just recently in fact. But now I am almost 50 and I feel like I am too old to go back to college, and I would feel so awkward being near retirement age in a classroom with 20 year olds. The WT society stole any future in Education I might have ever had....

[@user-TheTruth]

Don’t let age stop you from going back to college , you still have a long productive life ahead of you ! Success away from the organization is something they hate, they want you to fail or be someone they can say see what happens when you leave Jehovah ! Continue to live your best life !

[@liv328]

@@user-TheTruth Thank you for being so kind and encouraging 🥰

[@TheRealFirecracker16]

Don’t let “age” be a hindrance!! You will do well!! I had no extra education and out of high school at 17… I was afraid I may have forgotten HOW to do learning, yet at 63 AND at a college on a hillside, I did a whole year and completed a year course!! You can do it!!! 💕

[@liv328]

@@TheRealFirecracker16 That is awesome! Thank you for the inspiration 💫💞

[@Womanmad1]

Just do it you know you want to.

[@ciscokidfab7595]

I have a sister and brother-in-law who are living on SOcial security and in an RV. Their four children are uneducated and also struggle in life. This system of things would pass? I have been trying to help get my brother-in-law to get into a house before winter, but he said he will rely on jahovah and his brothers in a different Christ. Sad!

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

That is just brutal to read. And there are so many JW's that are in the same spot. That 'generation' of the 60's - 90's is so bought in to the lie....I'm so sorry :(

[@ciscokidfab7595]

@@survivingparadisepodcast brutally sad and I would imagine they are not an isolated case.

[@researchound]

How sad!

[@pamelaruth7400]

I graduated in the 93. I was on honor roll and tutored other students for the school counselor. He of course tried to help me plan for college. He became very frustrated with me when I tried to explain I couldn't go. He did not believe me. I gave him my mothers phone number and told him to call her because if she permitted me to go I would love to do so. He caled her and then never mentioned college to me again.😮‍💨

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

☹☹I'm so sorry! So much unrealized potential!! We are releasing an episode on 'parenting' on Monday....and it tackles some of the huge misses by parents of JW's.....education is a huge subject

[@pamelaruth7400]

@@survivingparadisepodcast I am looking forward to seeing that!

[@jaygee2611]

I attended University in the mid-80’s while briefly associating with JWs. And you’re right, higher education was highly frowned upon. I got looks of disappointment anytime the topic came up. I’m glad I disregarded the narrow-mindedness of those JWs from my youth. I was able to pursue a corporate career and retire at age 50. It makes me sad that parents in this religion don’t encourage their children to pursue their interests and fully develop their talents.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Jay, so glad you disobeyed!! Good for you!! It's hilarious that JW's argue this point....it was blatant and constant. Only the rebels considered school....and I'm glad you were one of them!

[@TheRealFirecracker16]

I am SO genuinely happy for you!!! I was bustin’ my butt at 63 years old doing 60 hour weeks just to survive!!! How wonderful to retire at your young age!!! I’m almost 66 now and still afraid to start drawing SS as it would not be enough to live on if anything were to happen to my husband …

[@iyesis]

Its crazy cause my congregation never discouraged higher education. Maybe because I grew up NJ in the 90's/00's and the cost of living is insane. I had a therapist as an elder (which was quite useful) and a Pioneer who was a doctor nurse. Thankfully I was able to go to college. Out of 20 of us I would say at least 90% of the young people in my hall has a 2 year degree at least and 50% has a bachelors or higher.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

WOW! That is incredible....and very rare! Although during those years, they really softened on the message. My generation wasn't so lucky. Good for you!

[@user-TheTruth]

Growing up in the early eighties was totally discouraged from going to college! If you did you were not exemplary or used ! The nineties was definitely a softening on that stance !

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@user-TheTruth 100%...and I won't let that history die. It was an all out assault on college in the '80's. I never considered it, despite the opportunity to go! They softened in the 90's....and not a coincidence, when the organization was growing... they needed educated people.

[@jtf10469]

They softened up on it as the years went by. “Truth only gets lighter” on these subjects as the devastation on a mass level affects members. Then they give a talk in the convention that starts off something like, “Brothers and sisters, we serve a loving and balanced God so we encourage you to be balanced when ….” What about the thousands of lives that were affected before this loving announcement. Please….

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@jtf10469 All gaslighting. They are masters of gaslighting. They have mastered lying.

[@disassociated1731]

I m a born in, Dad was an elder ( in the 50’s, even before they called them elders), he had a hard work, due to after war circumstances, but he loved knowledge and education, and he transmitted this appreciation to me. At school, and high school I was the always first type, never bullied, always highly appreciated by my teachers. I was also fully believing the jw theology, telling my teachers I prefer theocracy over democracy, or I m not believing in evolution:) Going to college was a clear path, even the CO didn t mind it:) During my two college years, I witnessed a lot to the students, four of them became jws ( and best friends, who now are shunning me…) In the university town congregation, we were quite a lot of young brothers at higher education, but also active and best friends with the special pioneers, no elder or mature jw criticised us for learning at college. This was in the early 70’s. After two years I decided to step down from intense studying, but I made it to be a regular pioneer while I went at same time to university. I had a lot of “bible” studies ( during this time before 1975) and brought many people into the org :( Some of them engineers, who later were of good help for construction or at bethel. The brothers of this congregation supported us, and I was soon appointed as a Ms and elder. Fifteen years later, I became a pimo elder and I began to resume at university, graduated, disassociated, and found a good opportunity in a foreign country, far from jworg…

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

INCREDIBLE STORY! Wow, what an experience! You can certainly speak to this subject. Very interesting that you were in a congregation that didn't discourage education. It was a hot button topic in the U.S.

[@Strawberry-f7f]

I know for sure that the society has sent people to college to study a subject that they need an expert on to further “the work”. So hypocritical 😑

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

They certainly have, and you can add that they send many to college to become lawyers. Fact.

[@fLUKEYdNb]

My folks banned me from further education and also full time work. I was only allowed part time and was expected to pioneer then go to bethel. Subsequently I left home at 18 with almost nothing. Notably there is nothing in the bible banning further education (or getting a trade or skill) in fact it is a responsibility to provide for your family. Wasn’t Jesus trained to be a carpenter… The octopope: doctrines of men, going beyond what is written since inception..

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

I'm so glad you got out! They went through a phase where they would encourage 'trade schools' .... imagine wanting young people to stay in bad jobs with no education. NOT ONE teaching like this from anyone in the bible they don't read

[@fLUKEYdNb]

@@survivingparadisepodcast thanks for the comment and all your content, always a good listen! 25 years since I got out of the Borg, but still it leaves residue.

[@TheRealFirecracker16]

@@survivingparadisepodcast In fact, if they were REALLY going by the Bible in its entirety, wouldn’t children continue their learning till age 30??… Then and only then getting baptized and going out into the world… as Jesus did??? I’m sure his carpenter training continued through his 20s…

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@TheRealFirecracker16 Ah yes, a point I brought up often when I saw children at 10, 11 years old getting baptized. I always would say out loud "when did Jesus get baptized again" ...and let it just hang in the air.

[@nataliesanchez7997]

Nice work SFB this one hits different 💔❤️‍🩹❤️‍🔥

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

🤣 SFB! Yep, I'm right there with you... hits VERY different!!

[@marwatson7408]

I completely agree with you it’s terrible what they are doing to the younger generation they discourage higher education, I’m so glad I never married and grateful I didn’t my raise children in his nonsense and see it ruin their lives. I was told not to go to college because we are living in the last days and that was 40 years ago. I studied with a woman who is still a hardcore JW her children are no longer witnesses but she now has grandchildren that are getting married and graduating college.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

It's criminal. I hate it with a burning passion. What they are doing to children who have no experience in life needs to be looked at by the governments and authorities

[@positiveendtimes]

I’m surprised you didn’t talk about how odd it was how in the article about higher education…why was there a need in the first place to tell the friends not to look down on or give those ones a difficult time for that decision. Like I’m any normal community that’s a neutral or positive aspiration

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Thank you NV, but candidly, JW's always look down on those that received a higher education. They SHOULDN'T, but they do :(

[@naomiwillemsen9836]

Happy my parents just wanted for me what would be good for me... Maybe it did help that my father was no longer an elder (he was the chairman, don’t know the official term anymore, but something happened that he never talked about and went into depression due to how he (and other elders) was relieved from his position) so I didn’t have to be afraid about repercussions as I did no any of my actions would normally possibly impact the privilages of males in the household. They allowed my to get a degree without making a fuzz about it. I’m slowly getting the idea that maybe they knew that life within ’the truth’ was no future for me... We’re still in touch and they are grateful I’m living a happy life. They don’t even try to persuade me to come back while they, my brother, sister, nephews and their partners all still in and active.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

I'm so glad to hear that your parents put you first and you're still in touch!! Many have the opposite experiences; it's tragic

[@naomiwillemsen9836]

@@survivingparadisepodcast it is! Though there is trauma, it’s not that I’ve been left completely alone, my parents practically refused to, but had broken with my siblings for a year and are now only communicating for practical matters or in social settings. Maybe it’s because I actually shunned Them when they declined to come to my wedding, and know a bit how being shunned could feel. Then a year later we were invited to my brother’s wedding. Most who leave have a tougher situation... It’s horrible and depressing, though at the same time allowing to be liberating

[@pamelaruth7400]

Indeed it is shocking! But the abuse and coercion of minors may very well be what brings their fall so Im so glad they are publicizing their thoughts!

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

So true Pamela!

[@TheRealFirecracker16]

Yes, I came from a generation just a bit before you… You can certainly add the ‘60s to your list of the 70s and 80s! I graduated in 1974 but I know that the information was well ingrained in me in through the 60s as by the time I was ready to enter 9th grade, still in 8th, we got to meet with a guidance counselor that was there to help us decide what classes we would take throughout high school… I took Speech and Drama thinking only that that would help in giving talks( acted out with another sister on stage and also in the “door to door work.” I was at least 3rd generation JW and none of my family before me ever had any higher education. Most of us were living in poverty. I would have loved to had more education in Real Estate or Home Design, or even higher math courses… maybe architecture…I think our school had a “Drafting” course, but as I remember, at that time it was ONLY for boys!! 😒 I think I was mostly expected to pioneer, and my parents would provide, or get married and become someone else’s responsibility… So I married 2 weeks after graduation… I was only 17!!! 😣 Never got to follow my dreams… Lol… Ended up taking a year of college at 63!!! I graduated the year with a 4 point! I was SO disgusted when I heard the change…finally admitting…”Well, some may decide a little further education is necessary to survive financially” …. A real pet peeve of mine that I didn’t pursue a career that would have saved me from a life of living pay check to pay check!!! They live in their luxury and don’t even give back enough to keep the elderly comfortable, but expect others ( who also have no finances) to care for them!! All the while spending MILLIONS on their court cases!!! I miss the point ( as probably do you,) where that is showing love towards those that follow them…. I was probably the first in my family to have a 401k… but not started till in my 40s…. I remember the thought kept going through my mind, Mom had no savings or will, and now she is dead… time keeps moving forward and if I don’t plan, I will end up in the future with no plans as to how to get by and have nothing to live on… Not to mention graduating in 1974 and thinking all our problems would soon be over and knowing so many sold their homes and went to preach where it was most needed, then years and years passed and nothing happened and they were in poverty till they died…. :((

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

😥😥I've heard this story for many years from many people. It's becoming 'ancient history' for JW's now; they don't realize what they did to our generation and I want the story told. It is so damaging and has effected many of us.....living check to check without investments in the future. Do they care? NOPE. I'm so sorry you've been through this and can only say, you're not alone!!

[@asherasky8147]

My favorite podcast are you sure you are not the actor Patrick Warburton(Joe Swanson), you have his voice or should I say he has yours;0)

[@lizzidpeepole]

I hear Garand Thumb.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

LOL thanks Ashera....I love that guy! So funny!

[@muzikman74]

Would love to contact you and talk with you….I’m a former bethelite

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

muzik...would love to connect. Shoot me an email at [e-mail]

[@ericbulman1752]

Being a full time pioneer does not pay the bills , does not support the family and does not feed the family . Being a full time pioneer only benefits the watchtower

[@jtf10469]

I can’t explain enough how negatively this concept affected me being born and raised in this organization and leaving in my mid 30s. I tried to beat the clock and take speed courses and found some satisfaction in a decent career but it came with a lot of HARD work and living in New York, being content with a minimum wage job doesn’t pay the bills. It’s not a matter of not trusting that everything you need will be provided but you have to do your part too. Organization is like a toxic relationship where they make sure you HAVE TO depend on them and you feel like you can NEVER leave. My parents dedicated their lives to the organization and they can’t do squat financially for their grand children because they’re always penny pinching and living for “today” even though they preach not to live for “today” but of course, everything is twisted and over explained when it comes to the organization…. American families in this religion suffer the most because of lack of cultural belief to help your family prosper. So many broken families and the organization doesn’t help. They’re directly responsible for the added cases of broken families and no matter how you twist it, ITS A FACT. They use the scripture when Jesus said, those who lost mothers and sons and daughters etc… gain them through their “brotherhood”… Sickening.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

It continues to be a 'raw nerve' for me personally as well Jennifer. And what you described above is the exact description of an abuser. They do it with pictures of paradise (now emotionally charged videos and music)....but they're isolating you from the planet. It's classic abuse. It's evil and it's wrecked generations of people

[@hellokitty-65-s7z]

So sad. I know of a sister that was a full time pioneer for decades, was married to a Bro that committed adultery 3xs and after the 3rd time she decided to divorce. With no education to speak of she is having major struggles with paying the rent, bills etc.... She has mentioned that she hoped her father would have encouraged her towards some sort of higher education. Is the congregation really expected to carry the burden of assisting this particular sister for the rest of her life!? So sad. She lost her husband (who by the way was reinstated and remarried) the love of her life, wasted her time pioneering now in her late 60s and struggling when she should have been looking towards retirement.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

this absolutely breaks my heart! I know too many stories just like this one!

[@Vbreychak7212]

If you pursued college it meant you didn't believe that the end was near so basically if you desired to go to college you were kinda thought to have apostate thinking. Nobody wanted to look like they didn't believe the end was around the corner. It would push out potential marriage mates and keep you from getting a title.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Yes, you nailed it! They made you feel like you had NO faith!

[@researchound]

Imagine being a "sister " in an abusive relationship without a higher education, a trade or skills. Where are you gonna go? How many of them forgive abuse and unfaithfulness because they are too vulnerable to leave? A lot!!!

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

This was especially true the last 40 years. It's truly a way to control a woman. Keep her under subjection, uneducated and completely dependent on her husband and the religion for everything. Further proving it's a cult.

[@Rosenheim1029]

Hi got a question is are Jehovah witness against community college or any post education? I've actually intend a kingdom hall for 6 months (to add I'm not way going to convert)

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

PLEASE do not get baptized, see a past episode. They will 'have' you at that point. They openly discourage higher education of any kind, thousands of references to consider. However, some JWs just disobey and go anyway, but higher ed is a no no in JWs. You can be removed as an elder if your child goes to college

[@georgesotiroff5080]

I tell JWs that higher education isn’t for learning how to make money. It’s for learning how to SPEND money wisely and beneficially.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Excellent advice for young JW's to hear!

[@bobdobbs8700]

Fascinating to learn than even CTR had a chip on his shoulder about higher education. Maybe it was due to him being embarrassed by his inability to understand Hebrew that was exposed during his court case. Lucky for me, my family was so poor I had to attend a public school, so the idea of going to college felt as tempting as going to Mars -- it would be exciting to do, but was never really an option.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Yep, from early on, they have been negative about education. You bring up a good point, he was not very educated and ripped off most of his teachings from Adventists of the time. He was a much better 'salesman'

[@ingramwright5399]

Thank you for talking about this subject. I can personally relate to everything you said. Even the part about being smart, but taking the lazy way out, because...why not? In just a little while, we're going to be frolicking around in paradise with lions and pandas 🐼. I'll be 56 in two days. Playing catch up at this age is not so easy. Where are the damn pandas and fruit tables??? Btw...I'm down with any lawsuit.

[@johnnycroat]

its very hard, especially if you believed what they told us. I held on to the words of the Generation of 1914 would never pass away...Here we are

[@ingramwright5399]

@@johnnycroat that's what pushed me to get baptized.

[@johnnycroat]

@@ingramwright5399 interesting you said about being lazy. I felt the same way. why put all the effort into this system if its going to go away soon

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

YES....my goal is to be very real about what this caused in me......and looking back, it just made me lazy. I didn't need to worry about anything responsible, it was all going to burn. Putting that into anyone's head, but especially a child's, is disgusting. Yep, still angry.

[@lizzidpeepole]

Music just started and I'm triggered already! Lol. Good choice of topics.

[@rebekahcurley6887]

I was triggered by the pamphlet on the right, so much to get triggered about isn’t there!

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@rebekahcurley6887 Me too!!

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

LOL, I should probably do a warning every episode....TRIGGERS COMING!

[@lizzidpeepole]

Yes that pamphlet is oddly haunting. No need for a warning lol. Any realistic factual approach to this group is going to open moldy containers stuffed in the corners. I am kind of impressed that you continue to hit right on a nerve. There is so much negativity to get snagged on that your Surviving Paradise approach seems to acknowledge but move to root common hidden hang ups. Two thumbs way up to all of us keeping this flame alive.

[@lizzidpeepole]

I have 2 things I set reminders for and actually look forward to. Surviving Paradise new hour of laughs and heartache is number 1. Close number 2 is Killtony which is oddly the same and also a Monday drop. Hats off and much respect for the effort.

[@cmotherofpirl]

Excellent!

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Thank you!

[@Dogpool]

Someone sent me this scripture the other day when I asked him why he always says Jehovah willing I’ll show up. James 4:15 "Instead, you should say: “If Jehovah wills, we will live and do this or that. If you read the surrounding text it does seem to say that if you think you are anything more then trash you are committing a sin. That anything good that happens is only because of Jehovah and if you think you personally did it then you are ego is to big and your boasting. I would say this is a scripture that could be used to refute your saying at the end that there is nothing in the Bible that says don’t be your best self

[@BlackFlagHeathen]

There’s definitely young Witnesses who disobey the “college bad” thing and go anyway, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if Watchtower will occasionally bend their own rules and allow and pay for the son or daughter of a powerful/well-respected elder or circuit overseer or something go to college so their services can then be used by Watchtower, usually at a Bethel. They aren’t exactly known for integrity or honesty. Edit: CALLED IT

[@javirod8]

I can appreciate the time and research that goes into these podcasts but does every one of them need to be an hour or more? May I respectfully suggest 15 to 30 minutes so as to show a little consideration for people's time as well as to take into account the problems that some may have staying tuned for an hour or more? Thank you.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Thanks for the feedback Javier, I'm working on that as well....they're a little long

[@javirod8]

@@survivingparadisepodcast Hi Stacey, I was hoping to not upset anyone. Thank you for your kind reply. On the topic of higher education, you may have touched on this point already but if not, please let me add something to the discussion...there are so many folks who volunteered to go to Bethel right out of high school who, after serving for several decades, were dismissed to return to their home states. Many of these ones are well into their 50's and 60's and find themselves without any real-world work experience. Worse yet is that they do not have social security income to look forward to. They now have no choice but to fall back on the kindness of family and friends only for a place to live. The fabulous eight however, are living in very lovely accommodations with all sorts of creature comforts while being weighed on hand and foot. Where is the consideration to those many people who decided to forego everything in their youth for the privilege of working at headquarters? It seems hard to believe they have been treated this way!

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@javirod8 thanks Javier, always looking to get better. Bear with me ;) That is a FANTASTIC subject and I'm very aware of it. I had friends at Bethel that were effected and left with nowhere to go and no other job/education prospects. Great suggestion!

[@ronhansen8471]

Those of you who did not get a higher education is on you. The JW organization cautioned its members on the spiritual pitfalls of obtaining a higher education but never prohibited anyone from going to college. May 15, 1956 Watchtower "It is not the acquiring of true scientific knowledge or that on many other subjects, which is in full accord with the Word of God, that is detrimental, but rather the vehicle in which it is conveyed is often saturated with the ideas of men conflicting with God’s thoughts, such as the evolution theory as to the origin of man and other theories and hypotheses that are not compatible with the Bible. Taking in knowledge of pure mathematical science, physics, chemistry, engineering, history, etc., is very commendable and necessary for advancing and improving standards for people to enjoy in this the twentieth century, and this may well continue into the new world when done in harmony with God’s right standards. However, as transmitted to the students through modern unprincipled political ideologies, and therefore questionable, through the unscrupulous commercial methods, and through the allied doctrines of modern Christendom, it may have an adverse effect on the student’s mind?" The command at Matthew 28:19,20 is a work passed on to Jesus Christ disciples and in these last days people's lives are more important than our personal comforts. As a disciple of Jesus Christ, we make that vow to follow God's son and for that reason, no one is encouraged to get a higher education. A higher education has never been prevented. If you do the research, you will find the JW organization has provided suggestions on how to protect oneself should a member decide to attend a university or college. The thing to remember is that the GB has never dictated what its members should or should not do but local members have. The GB council has and always will be a loving suggestion that we can follow or not follow.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

You clearly don't listen to these episodes. Your comment about it being our responsibility after what was taught is absurd.

[@ronhansen8471]

@@survivingparadisepodcast I can read your comments which is enough. I'm not impressed with a biased interpretation of what many of you think was taught be the JW organization.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@ronhansen8471 You're choosing to call it biased,.... and I'm guessing you have far less experience with the organization than I do, as well as many listeners.

[@ronhansen8471]

@@survivingparadisepodcast I have been part of the organization since 1968 and there is nothing you all have said that I have not heard before. Yes, I am choosing to call your comments a biased interpretation. Your interpretation is not based on the truth nor is it following God's word the bible.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

@@ronhansen8471 All the best to you Ron, you're incorrect, but telling you that doesn't help. We will all be here for you should you awaken from the indoctrination

[@petermadsen2498]

I reckon out here in Australia the so called pioneer relied on government payment payment seems ok that the arseholes in ny don't have a problem using the government when it suits as they still do.Saw it for myself. Enjoy your podcast from out here.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Yep, Imagine suing Norway to give them money....very Christlike, right?

[@harambetidepod1451]

millions of lives ruined

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

multiple millions.....tragedy

[@Hhiller]

The rhetorical questions and gas lighting on this subject make me sick. It’s insulting. This is all their ploy to keep people dumb and not thinking and easily manipulated.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

By the gameplan for the Governing Body

[@elvenrights2428]

JW have the lowest education level of all the religious groups. Therefore also new JW converts are mostly those with low education? JW seemingly attract mostly people with low education into their religion. Otherwise the education structure of the JW would be more balanced as there are many first generation converts in JW. There are too few children in JW for even maintaining the JW population on the same level even without any disfellowshippings and dissasociations. So because the number of JW worldwide is relatively stable at 8 million, there must be a lot of JW converts who weren't raised as JW and therefore able to get higher education. Otherwise their number would decline sharply from year to year.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

They turn a blind eye to those that go to college and go back to Bethel. They need them. It would shock many to know that they actually PUT people through school, especially the legal department

[@Bobby217CPA]

Watchtower paid for Ivy League Educations for their Lawyers & Doctors. FACT.

[@roselindsey9674]

🤩

[@trevorbates8972]

In support of Jehovah's Witnesses, I would just like to say that they seem to have found the true meaning of life. I have come from a different direction but it strongly supports what they say. You see...our greatest problem in today's world is the stale lymph that builds up in our bodies and this stifles our health, our willpower, and our peace. It's quite simple to get it moving again...just follow the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ, just as he taught the Seven Churches in Asia...and if we do it right it will be very similar to the Jehovah's Witnesses teaching.

[@survivingparadisepodcast]

Always good to hear you have found peace and happiness. While it's important to respect other people's belief system, after much study many have found JW's and their leadership are dangerous and damaging.