Jennifer Crumbley trial: Prosecutor gets the last word

[@malindaallen718]

Judge should order defense to stop distracting jury during prosecution closing argument.

[@goose7574]

I would think that given how the Defense Attorney has acted during this trial, that the Jury is fully aware of what she's doing.

[@Oceanside2023]

The prosecutor sucks too! They both sound like whiny middle school girls! It’s hard to listen to them!

[@H3li0s_kun]

When I saw the length of this video I had faith that Shannon would be able to keep her promise, but alas...

[@Oceanside2023]

The prosecutor is just as annoying! They both sound like immature whiny middle school girls! I can’t even watch it when the 2 of them are going back and forth over silly petty things in the court room!

[@Twiddledup]

@@Oceanside2023remind me of high school bully chicks that were in cliques! Prosecutor imo is worse than Shannon 😂

[@donnasheraden6371]

Defense is nothing but argumentive, stupid & RUDE!!!

[@sarahcrain8083]

It is always about her.

[@donnasheraden6371]

AMEN!!!

[@turtletruth]

Shame on you Karen McDonald for throwing the first stone ...!

[@Oceanside2023]

She’s doing what she’s supposed to be doing! DEFENDING her client! You don’t have to like her personality, but she has a duty and that’s to make sure prosecution isn’t over stepping their bounds! I love how people think defense attorneys should just sit down and not say anything! 😂

[@SolaGratia.]

And histrionic and defensive and entitled and dishonest, etc. I would go on, but I don't have all night. 🙂

[@fanofthedog]

I thought this rebuttal was EXCELLENT. Defense even threw the husband under several busses and looked overall like a thoughtless cow when she made fun of her own teenagers while the parents of DEAD teenagers sat there wishing to have their kids back.

[@aspt1980]

Defense council has made herself a clear scumbag since her comments arter the larry Nassar trial. Her statement was so vile her convicted client put out a statement through another lawyer distancing himself from her and admitting the statements of his victims were true.

[@brittanywalker3668]

Facts

[@mufasasdaughter4831]

Exactly

[@PBJELLYx2]

🪔

[@kazbee6978]

Prosecutor had no right to say it wasn’t true that every parent is only a step away from being in this situation; it is true and juvenile prison confirms that.

[@Susieq0408]

When Jennifer initially took the stand and talked about herself she said her greatest fear is public speaking…. Mine is having something horrible happen to my children; like sending them to school and never seeing them again😢. This woman has no substance, no empathy for anyone except herself.

[@Whitey2716]

omg also when Shannon said “tell us about yourself” and she legit said “my name is Jennifer Crumbly, and I’m the defendant”. Yeah no shit - we know that.

[@Weatheredstorms1]

Both see and her defense attorney royally blew the trial. Don’t get me wrong the evidence won the trial. Her defense attorney stated there are many times when she doesn’t want to be around her teen and that she’s “difficult”. Meanwhile the victims families are sitting behind her having to hear this.

[@Susieq0408]

@@Weatheredstorms1 no self awareness on eithers part

[@lynnparrish1335]

As a retired school administrator, and one who taught Wayne Stare University graduate students, I am alarmed to hear that Oxford’s former Dean of Students now works in another district. He STILL doesn’t understand the standard for search and seizure as they pertain to students in a school environment. The school officials had the absolute right to search the student’s bookbag and even his person (!) under the clear circumstances of this case. This standard goes all the way back to a 1984 New Jersey Supreme Court case that is taught to every school administrator in the nation. I am shocked at his ignorance, which IN AND OF ITSELF contributed to the assassination of these students. Make no mistake! Governmental immunity should never have been a shield to his civil liability. I hope the suing attorneys watched this one carefully, as his testimony can be used against him in the pending civil suits. I would jump on that.

[@lisacartwheel3693]

What district is he in now?

[@mrL9122]

I agree. He should have searched the bag. He was laid off from a job at another school prior to Oxford.

[@lynnparrish1335]

@@mrL9122Sadly, in our business, and particularly given the low numbers of outstanding candidates, the aptly-named “pass the trash” phenomenon occurs. Better not to hire! There is a legal concept called “negligent hiring” and, wherever he is, that district would do well, if they keep him, to put him under very close supervision. Or as my British friends say, hire him a “minder”.

[@lynnparrish1335]

@@lisacartwheel3693 No idea but, after seeing what I call his “felony cluelessness” on the stand, the law firms representing victims families had better find him and have another go at him. He had greater responsibility on the matter than the non-administrative guidance counselor. And I will go so far as to say that he failed much more critically than the two parents and in my opinion he was the proximate cause of all those deaths and injuries!

[@laceyh94]

Finally a comment bringing attention to this. This is my biggest query in the entire situation. I graduated from high school over 12 years ago- had I drawn or written anything like that on a paper in school, I would have been at a minimum- searched and suspended, more than likely I would have been expelled from school for making any comment like that on paper or verbally. I can’t understand how staff cleared him to resume a normal school day with his peers, without even searching his person or his book sack.

[@ag4allgood]

Prosecutor Karen McDonald did a tremendous closing on this trial ! She hit the points that needed to be hit in her 1st closing statement. The 2nd was clear Jennifer Crumbley said she wouldn't change a thing ! No remorse. No thought of what she could have done better. The Defense Attorney Shannon Smith " opened the door " allowing the affair & the diary of Ethan in the case. That diary with the entries asking for a Therapist & writing his parents don't listen. Just that is negligence. To go to the high school & meet the school counselor & NEVER tell them about Buying Ethan a gun is criminal ! Same with not taking Ethan after being home alone texting his mother he hears & is seeing DEMONS ! She wouldn't change a THING !

[@jessicascism891]

It's none of the schools business what you buy your kid period and it was bought for him to shoot at the range with his dad

[@ag4allgood]

@@jessicascism891 If your teenager is drawing a gun on a class assignment with people bleeding out from Bullet holes & the school Counselor emails that paper with the words HELP also on it. Its time to put the MAGA sheet away & think about everybody else instead of JUST YOURSELF. Especially when he asked many times to see a Therapist. BTW responsible gun owners LOCK the firearms so teenagers with mental problems can't just take them out of unlocked cases / safes ! As a multiple gun owner I would have told that school Counselor everything about Ethan having a gun / mental problems. Not revealing those things is criminal !

[@annettekeys6071]

@@jessicascism891 Yes it is, when you have a depressed, mentally disturbed child and buy him a gun! You Damn right it’s the school business!!!! See the results when you don’t share this information 4 murder children!!!!!

[@annettekeys6071]

@@jessicascism891 Oh Yes it is! Whoever is responsible for care and safety of your child needs to know if, they has access to gun! Especially with mental issues

[@jessicascism891]

@annettekeys6071 no it's not we are Americans and we are the parents not the school and most of the time the schools are only worried about themselves and having authority over everyone they can probably because they were loners as kids

[@shannon-976]

They both should spend sometime in jail. Red flags were waving like crazy and as a parent they totally ignored them. If not for their help and irresponsibly those 4 people might still be alive.

[@Bubbleguppy_sometimesVR]

If not for the schools negligence and allowing him to exhibit signs that they felt so disturbing they contacted the parents to begin with but didn't actually do anything with is disturbing. Her rebuttal literally says "he drew a picture of what was going to happen" and who caught that picture? The very school the allowed to him stay, walk in there the next morning with a back pack unchecked and sent on his merry way. The school had someone who was supposed to be a counselor!!! That is negligence, that is caring more about looking bad had they been wrong over then the safety of the students.

[@Bonnie62563]

Guilty as a parent when that child said he was depressed she was supposed to protect him not buy him a gun

[@doodlemom4593]

Amen

[@goose7574]

Unfortunately, I think that some parents still think that "depression" or "anxiety" are some kind of a horrible label and don't want that diagnosis for their child. Instead, they should be glad that there is actual help nowadays with those diagnoses, and WANT to help their child(ren) conquer that and not go through life fighting it alone. This is proof that turning a blind-eye to something like depression can have severe consequences. 😢

[@Bubbleguppy_sometimesVR]

NOT WHEN HE WAS CHARGED AS AN ADULT. And you can hate these parents all you want but they should not be on trial. The door this opens is horrifying to think about. Pray god you are the parent you pretend to be.

[@turtletruth]

Shame on you Karen McDonald for throwing the first stone ...!

[@Fluffylover261]

@@Bubbleguppy_sometimesVRthe doors are already open when all killers or lawyers say there clients are insane or mentally I’ll. There comes a time that parents need to take responsibility. Period

[@polohorse315]

Maybe if parents start to become accountable for their kids actions we might see less shootings

[@indigoweather]

+ gun control

[@lauramartins5953]

Are parents supposed to be omnipresent and omniscient regarding their kids? What, cameras 24/7?! That's delusional and it would probably lead to MORE shootings.

[@jessicascism891]

Nope because most kids get guns on the streets illegally so you are saying every parent of every teen in Chicago that has killed their opps and others should be in jail too...parents can't watch and know exactly what their child is doing every second of everyday they do have other things that they have to do to support those kids and take care of them

[@polohorse315]

@@lauramartins5953 you have to be 18 to purchase a gun. His Mother bought him a gun and he killed 4 people with it. Absolutely GUILTY

[@The_Jonstigator]

@@polohorse315 He took out of the house without permission.

[@asamatteroffact9247]

There should have been a better judge on this case to control this disruptive, rude and crude defense attorney.

[@cristysanders4660]

I wish it was the same gentleman in Ethans trial. He did amazing!! he was soft-spoken, but he did his thanggg. He definitely controlled his courtroom. Im sure prosecution and the jury and all of us watching need a nice reset of the brain because defense was SO TAXING

[@tyroneperry2471]

I too was very hateful and upset with Jennifer Crombley. But that's what the media does to you brainwash. Now that I heard the evidence. I sat here and cried for her. Excellent lawyer. Not guilty. Facts over everything.

[@miketaylor7305]

Hi asama…IKR

[@asamatteroffact9247]

@@miketaylor7305 yep!

[@kristid1904]

I so agree! That defense lady attorney was awful and I feel like the judge always gave in to her and helped her along. The prosecution, though, BAD ASS!

[@markkeller9378]

Guilty as hell. Give her the max. Do the right thing Jury……guilty…..total neglect, totally accountable.

[@tyroneperry2471]

Where is she guilty, the facts shows she's not guilty

[@griffin2263]

@@tyroneperry2471 not sure what trial your watching ,but she totally took no steps to stop her son from harming other people .she took no care ..

[@amyd3464]

@@griffin2263 And neither did the school administration who saw the warning signs that the teachers reported to them. The writing was on the wall. They had an immediate responsibility to do something, and they did not- they took no care either. My point is, if you all are persecuting the parents, you need to look around to see who else bears responsibility in this tragedy.

[@LovePhotography-Music7]

Defence attorney give me a migraine with her closing argument 😂

[@RunetteHamilton]

This is why I went to bed. Will watch her sometime today where I can't skip parts.

[@carolyndee4565]

The defence attorney was awful! I would not want her representing me for anything. I think it was her first trial. Hopeless!!

[@lilygeorgievski8208]

I don’t think it’s her first! She defended Larry Nassar!!

[@tyroneperry2471]

She did the Johnny Cochran defense and won . I know court procedures and she did an excellent job. I love this defense attorney. 👍

[@shellytacomedy]

​@@tyroneperry2471 she was out of line in this trial so many times 😅

[@johnstein230]

The elements on that list for manslaughter does it fit every case and she knows it

[@Ad-Lo]

???????

[@bquietsouhear]

She is guilty. A guilty verdict will serve as a wake up call to parents! They'll watch and care for their kids a whole lot closer when they are aware that they truly are responsible for their kids & their kids' behavior until they turn 18!

[@polohorse315]

Well said👏👏👏👏👏 You are accountable for your child till they turn 18

[@angelirohival6270]

I agree that she’s guilty but there will still be irresponsible parents! People are put in jail for driving drunk and people still do it.

[@bquietsouhear]

@angelirohival6270 And? Did you think laws will always remain unbreakable? Drinking alcohol is not against the law. Driving under the influence is against the law. What is your solution to the problem? People obey the law when there are consequences that they do not want to pay for breaking it. Why? Because they are self sacrificing conscequences. A selfish murder then becomes a self loss when the law of the land catches them. That is called a deterrant. The law of self control & self discipline is broken before any laws of the land are broken. What is your solution for the murder law to remain unbroken regarding minors & their parents' who did not provide their child's care & well being because they would not control & discipline themselves or their child? This case is necessary as law enforcement, conviction, monitored control & lock up which is justice for the victims & a loud deterrent for others. There are laws in place for external control over those who are out of control. So.....what is the reason for your but? What is your solution for the remaining parents' that neglect & enable their minor children to steal the lives of their innocent peers, by termination? Your human equation argument is based upon feelings. It doesn't belong in a law argument because the law doesn't change. People break it but it never changes. The people have to change or be forced to change by locking them up. See how that works now?👌

[@angelirohival6270]

@@bquietsouhear , you must have a lot of time on your hands to write such a lengthy response. Besides, you wouldn’t want to hear my solution.

[@bquietsouhear]

@@angelirohival6270 You have no solution. 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂 The response was information for the ignorant. A little aid to the ignorant is worth time. I can testify to that as both a recipient of knowledge, as well as, a giver. A word to the wise is sufficient.

[@michellem4287]

No doubt she's guilty. The defense tried to make her the victim. They are both despicable and I feel bad for their kids.

[@goose7574]

The fact that she said that she DOESN'T check her children's electronics, shows her own lack of care & concern for her own children. Any GOOD parent checks their child's phones, tablets, etc. ESPECIALLY, if they have full access to Google, KZbin, etc.

[@lanielouwraps]

@@goose7574 I never checked mine. My kids turned out very well. How do you build trust with a child doing that?

[@Bubbleguppy_sometimesVR]

@@lanielouwrapsExactly!!! Because judgmental social media moms will attack like hyenas based off whoever they are following that week. Had she been checking it and this hadn’t happened then it would have been “TRUST YOUR KIDS AND STOP INVADING PRIVACY”.

[@goose7574]

@@lanielouwraps I'm glad your children turned out well. Can I ask how old they are? That matters, because nowadays things are very different with the internet and what's on it, along with cell phones and what they can do (cameras, internet access, etc). Lastly, there is always a way for a parent to "PARENT" their child in a respectful/kind way. It's our job to protect them and sometimes that means from themselves. They are still children and might not even realize that they are going down a road that "isn't good" and could affect them later. Children don't usually have that knowledge yet. A prime example of that, is us knowing that what we put on the internet is likely there forever, where a child usually thinks that deleting something means it's gone.

[@lanielouwraps]

@@goose7574 my kids are in their 20’s so the technology is current. I took precautions in settings etc. I have a great relationship with my kids.

[@sleekimagesphotography]

So, i have a legitimate question, and maybe I missed it. Why didn't whomever called them to the school and showed them the paper demand them to take the kid home

[@Fee212]

Now that's a very good question. Why didn't they?

[@karlamarcellus4941]

@@Fee212The Dean testified that they told the parents that they’d have 48 hrs to find him psych help or they’d call CPS. That apparently wasn’t threatening enough.

[@americancrimejournal]

Schools cannot just demand people take their kids home. Could you imagine if this kid was suspended for "drawing a gun"? This kid would have been martyred and on Tucker Carlson. The school would have been accused of being political. In reality, the school had no reason to believe he had access to a gun, let alone was purchased for him. It was a gun that was supposed to be locked up, yet they had expensive defense rounds. The Crumbleys had all the information, not the school. Also the child didn't have behavioral problems at school, so it appears they followed a "suicide protocol" not a potential shooter. Also, for doctors and professionals to pull a 72 hour psych, the kid would have to say he wanted to kill people or himself or demonstrate violence.

[@rubyoro0]

They did request them to take him home, but refused.

[@angelirohival6270]

@@americancrimejournal, I worked in a school where, if there was a similar situation, if parents were told they needed to take their child home and they didn’t do it, then security would remove them from the premises and take them home or to a mental health facility. The school didn’t mess around and put other students at risk.

[@tinawaggoner1031]

I believe that both parents should be held accountable

[@tammiep9628]

Both parents are being held accountable. They each have separate trials.

[@tinawaggoner1031]

@@tammiep9628 but if they are not found guilty they will not be held accountable

[@sabineliebehenz4492]

They will

[@sabineliebehenz4492]

They spent already 2 years in jail.

[@Breezy-o1w]

​@@sabineliebehenz4492so what. They victims win never see life again

[@christylovejoy5564]

I really wish the Judge would not say "you guys" to the jury. It's" ladies and gentlemen of the jury" or at least just "jury members". It all seemed too informal, too chatty, too much lack of propriety with respect to the prosecution.

[@JE4-1]

Guilty! After all the evidence shown this "mother" is guilty of all charges

[@zamzamwater8749]

So far, I’ve seen that the prosecution has presented a compelling story but hasn’t really presented any compelling evidence.

[@ssc5987]

so buying a gun for a child with clear signs of depression/mental health issues, let alone just a child in general, is not evidence? 🤔cmon

[@zamzamwater8749]

@@ssc5987 were there really clear signs? What evidence is there that he asked his parents to take him to therapy? Ethan Crumbley was very manipulative. Also, you can buy something for a child and it not fully belong to the child. For example, if I were to buy my child a car that doesn’t mean they have full free access to it to use when and however they want. Or even their room isn’t really “their room”

[@paigenicole1982]

@@zamzamwater8749exactly. The signs were not black and white. If the prosecution had more evidence they would have used it. They took bits and pieces of messages, and made up their own story.

[@r8chlletters]

It is thin on evidence. The mother bought the bullets the child picked out online…that’s enough for me. The father bought the gun and gun lock for the child and failed to secure the weapon…that’s enough for me. They knew their child was depressed and disconnected and did nothing. They did not alert the school the child had a gun and ammunition. Guilty.

[@ssc5987]

@@zamzamwater8749 his behavior was the ask. what child asks to go to the dr when they are sick? a parent knows, this child was ignored. and you're right- if a child gets in an accident with the car provided by a parent, the parent is also liable soooo.....

[@loriv828]

These parents made mistakes, but I don’t know if I can get behind manslaughter. I just don’t know. This trial seemed like a farce at times, though. Wow.

[@SunFlower-sf1go]

She was not a good mother. This family is extremely dysfunctional. The father was depressed because of the death of his mother and couldn't keep a job. Jennifer checked out of the marriage and her child. Jennifer seems very self-absorbed and just an all around crappy mom who is not capable of showing love to her son. Neither parents seem to be very bright. Ethan was weird and she obviously resented him. I just don't think these parents had the skills to deal with this messed up child. I agree they should not have gotten him a gun but it's not illegal! Pass some laws and make it illegal! Also, I think the 2 administrators should be charged as will if we are going to hold people accountable! How are those 2 idiots still employed in a school setting after those failures? Didn't even care enough about Ethan to make sure he doesn't kill himself that night! I just don't think I could find her guilty of manslaughter as much as she makes me sick as a mother.

[@estellesiecker9951]

But how many of the other parents rushed home to check on their gun when they heard there was a school shooting happening...James did that because they knew the gun was not secured and he messaged HER to ask where she stored the bullets...so she did have something to do with gun and/or bullets. They never secured the gun and bullets and it's not believable that once she knew there was an active shooter and Ethan's gun was missing, that she only thought he was going to kill himself. She knew he was the active shooter ehen she messaged him " don't do it". This tragedy could have been prevented if the gun and bullets had been secured.

[@TJYDK]

It will be so difficult for the jurors to focus on allowable evidence with this trial. You’d think this was a mock trial performed by school children. All the whining and arguing in front of the jurors.

[@Fee212]

I hope the Jury will be fair and just.

[@michellem4287]

Innocent people don't cash out and run leaving their kid behind to face the music. Mother is guilty for arming a disturbed child instead of getting him help. Her horse and lovers meant more to her than her child. She's abusive in general. If anyone gives a disturbed person a weapon, they are responsible. Ethan was screaming for help and she encouraged his dark side. Despicable!

[@tyroneperry2471]

What does her horses from 2 years ago have to do with innocent children dying?

[@tyroneperry2471]

Not guilty

[@tyroneperry2471]

If your life, house and job are threatened, what will you do? I understand parents are upset. But at who. She was at work when this happened.

[@stefanredlich4429]

Listen to the facts. Nobody cashed out. What nonsense

[@debbiespears-vd1zg]

I feel the school should be at fault too. The counselor knew he was suicidal had problems

[@carolinarivera309]

Yes and they didn’t check his backpack

[@couponlangley14]

I feel the exact same way

[@vickiesims1600]

Even if the school holds responsibility too it doesn’t mean his mother doesn’t. Not either/or. More like both/and

[@lynnparrish1335]

The school IS at fault (based upon the incompetence of its administration). But governmental immunity will prevent the families from the awards they would have won if this weren’t a public body.

[@artvandalay7632]

Pray for defense’s kids. They’re growing up with this person.

[@johnstein230]

This is the case they wanted to give Ethan crumbly and couldn't do it because he plead guilty

[@lanielouwraps]

Exactly, so they cherry pick 10 pages out of 20,000 to get out of being wrong. And if that prosecutor is pregnant, she better quit her job so she can be home with her child 24/7 365… because that is what she is holding parents to now!

[@johnstein230]

@@lanielouwraps and come to think about it something I never heard them mention ...technically legally Ethan stole his father's gun out of the house.... Whether it was in a bank vault or hidden in a shoebox...that gun was stolen property on any unauthorized person....see they left that part out 😂🤣

[@lanielouwraps]

@@johnstein230 the prosecutor was a dick… and all of his antics about client attorney privilege being broken yesterday and this morning blew up in his face… the text messages were nothing!!!

[@Ad-Lo]

@@lanielouwraps ummmmm…. Okay…..

[@lanielouwraps]

@@Ad-Lo 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@ScarlettGraceDesigns]

I’m shocked that the prosecutors didn’t object or the judge stop this closing. Total violation of the closing argument rules of court.

[@Ad-Lo]

Prosecution object?

[@americancrimejournal]

​@@Ad-LoYes. The defense attorney should not be objecting during closing arguments except for several specific things, like introducing something as evidence that wasn't in the trial. Other than that, it was total disrespect and a distraction.

[@lynnparrish1335]

Of the numerous judges I’ve observed handling a trial such as this one, this was the weakest judge by far. She and the defense attorney appear to have a lot in common!

[@rodriguezthiago318]

I was listening to the defence closing yesterday and I thought it was an SNL sketch. She said she drinks a whole bottle of wine while taking care of her children 😆. Also, talking about her son sending pictures of his penis or receiving child porn on his cell phone was the worst example she could come up with 😂

[@vincentzazueta2353]

Over rule, or Sub stain that’s it. The judge always answers with **-#&@.. hope this judge never ever get a high profile case again.

[@dianag7588]

Idk... she is guilty of being self involved with her affair and her horses and her job and whatever else she does. Just because you made a child doesnt mean you are going to be attentive parents..... its sad and shameful at every level he was clearly an afterthought. But i dont think they could have anticipated him going completely off the deep end.

[@elleswiger9329]

But....there were clues. Clued she ignored. She ignored his mental health. Mental health is the cause of school shootings. It is true, she spent her time doing what made her happy and not sacrificing her precious time to make sure her child was well.

[@r8chlletters]

Closing arguments should never be interrupted by the other side. The judge should have stopped the bad behavior by the defense day 1.

[@AstroMoonGoddess]

The prosecution has won this case. That is my prediction after watching the trial and seeing all of the closing arguments. Karen McDonald won this case.

[@stefanredlich4429]

Shady prosecutor was horrible

[@spiritof75]

I have never seen an objection during closing remarks. The prosecution has the last word.

[@gaia-papaya8772]

The Johnny Depp and Amber Heard case did too.

[@OlliyAlia]

she definitely has blood on her hands but legally I just don’t see this having a stand.

[@kristid1904]

Crumbley’s lawyer gives me My Cousin Vinny vibes BAD!

[@SuperMegaGoofyGoober]

I’m my opinion what the school officials did is wayyyy worse. Ignoring such clear signs.

[@Cbruno3]

The school didn't see nearly the same "clear signs" that the parents did. They didn't know he had a gun (that exactly matched the one in that violent picture he drew). They didn't knew he had hallucinations, was depressed, etc.

[@louesparza8003]

Absolutely right. The parents were criminally negligent. There were so many things the school couldn't have known about.

[@MsMandsa]

I dont understand america. You allow for kids to have access to weapons. You make it part of your culture. And then you blame parents for not being the best parents? You all liable. The state, the school, teachers and parents. How can you just jail the parent? Wtaf.

[@chadgriffin4901]

Not guilty!! A sneaky 15 year old boy is the only one to blame. He sneaked the gun,and his mother didn't know. Kids sneak, do drugs,get pregnant, tell lies,ect. She dropped him off at school that morning,and had no idea. Its a bad situation,but that's all it is.If she's found guilty,it's because of emotion,not facts. We can't start putting people in jail, due to grief and emotions.

[@rubyoro0]

Dude…is that what all your kids did? You failed them.

[@parthenocarpySA]

That is what we call gross negligence. She doesn't have a defense to responsible gun ownership, he had full access to the weapon, and her inability to know if he had it with him is evidence of negligence enough to convict. Maybe you don't keep weapons, but the people I know keep them safe and out of the hands of potential school shooters. Sounds kinda safe!

[@jdemartini9807]

Wow. That is one incompetent and unhinged defense attorney. She should go to work for trump

[@judyminton8227]

Karen McDonald rebuttal was right on!! Nice to listen to someone with a brain make reason ♥️

[@LuvMyTators]

I was a product of parents that are stupid; my parents have similarities to the Crumbleys; I chose not to have children due to issues that I have carried with me into adulthood. My siblings continued the same dysfunctional cycle when they became parents. Today they don’t have a clue that they lacked the skills to be good parents. Their children will continue the same cycle. It’s sad to see the cycle continue. I don’t believe the Crumbleys understand how they contributed to the actions of their son. I don’t believe they are guilty of involuntary manslaughter. I believe they are guilty of bad parenting.

[@maryalicebynum8808]

When bad parenting leads to manslaughter then you’re guilty of manslaughter not bad parenting!

[@gaia-papaya8772]

This is the story of many, I don’t think the parents should be held responsible..some kids are just born evil. He would’ve found one or another to feel relevant in this life.

[@LuvMyTators]

@@gaia-papaya8772 The trial was difficult to follow. It flip-flopped all over the place. In any event the Crumbleys are pathetic human beings. Crumbley holds onto her beliefs with the tenacity of a bulldog (prior to the horrific shootings she wrote Trump a very stupid letter despite the lack of logic or evidence to back up.) But when her opinions float in the air without the gravity of reasoning, they merely become balloons of ignorance, ready to be popped by the needle of intelligence. In the grand scheme of life, mistakes are our teachers. They give us a hard knock on the head, making sure we remember the lesson well. But in the land of Stupidvania, these mistakes turn into pesky flies, buzzing around, unnoticed, unheeded, and unlearned.

[@JackieCouture1969]

Why isnt the school being charged by not making him go home or suspending him that morning?

[@rubyoro0]

He would have done it the next day. The only people that could have stopped it are in jail.

[@deborahsmith934]

That whining Defense Lawyer is so annoying.

[@WormyJoe100]

Very good closing arguments by the defense

[@nicolemcphaul5448]

You think? Too long, she talked about herself too much, fiddled with her hair thru the whole trial, disrespectful of court decorum, I wouldn't want her to represent a dog.

[@danielcook2412]

I thought she was brilliant. Appeared to be ditzy them boom! Not guilty!

[@bellestar777]

I wouldn’t be able to find her guilt of involuntary manslaughter. Child neglect and endangering the welfare of children yes. Also the other female who just killed ppl her mother better get charged since they wanna start charging everyone. For that matter why not charge the guidance counselor and the principal and security guard let’s go all in.

[@mrL9122]

Read the definition of involuntary manslaughter. It IS neglect. She didn't commit the murders, she neglected her role as a parent. She is guilty.

[@Mike-og3xb]

If Mommie Dearest Crumbley is found guilty, she has an excellent case for incompetent counsel. Smith is an embarrassment.

[@OttawaAndy]

They're not innocent, but do we really want to start charging people for being crappy, negligent parents? That's a slippery slope that would choke the judicial system. It hits me wrong, that's all.

[@bquietsouhear]

When deaths occur as a result of the parents' negligence of their minor child? The answer is yes. Yes we do!🙄

[@Fee212]

Parents'

[@edp2019]

Unless it’s your kid.

[@Ad-Lo]

@@Fee212 no. It is parents without the apostrophe. This is a common noun, not a possessive one. The OP is correct.

[@bquietsouhear]

@@Fee212 Thanks for the correction! 😎 I have applied it.🤗

[@greggeorge3638]

A friend of mine teaches high school. He says the most frustrating thing for him is that parents expect the schools to parent their children. Parents say things like, "He won't clean up his room, can you do something about it?" "Can you make her stop staying out after curfew?"

[@jessicascism891]

We do have a parenting issue in this country but we also have a school issue in this country the schools only want to try to parent the kids who have good parents and stand up for their kids when the school is out of control and then they try to parent the parent too but not the ones who don't have any good person to look up to and teach them its ass backwards is what it is

[@timonza]

The defence attorney is dreadful - comes across as a high school moot court attorney. She is doing her client no favours by being incompetent or maybe that's their last resort

[@lynnparrish1335]

Yes, she was just about the worst I ever seen, and I’ve spent years in courts as a function of my employment. Disorganized, uncouth, rude, immature, unprepared, even ungrammatical in some of her speech. But that makes it perfect for her client, if found guilty, to claim ineffective representation of counsel. She was beyond ineffective!

[@keithmorrison2514]

She played stupid throwing husband under the bus she needs jail time 20years sounds good

[@hoogabooga9736]

i think it's all about the gun, and the gun was dad's.... we'll see

[@D-by7zh]

You are absolutely right. She kicked his ass underneath there. She's gonna sit there and say she didn't know they were at the gun store that day"they" bought him the gun ?! She stated she always knew where her husband was at. So that one day she didn't know ? Playing stupid alright.

[@Rawkstar1960]

I’m struggling with this like you wouldn’t believe. I very much dislike Jennifer Crumbley as a person but is she responsible for this crime? The victims have been redeemed by the fact the killer is in jail for life without parole. So what is the prosecution of his parents all about? If we are looking at negligence then why aren’t we looking harder at the school which had an acute awareness that there was an issue? It seems a bit like prosecutorial over reach.

[@mrs.kitsch8127]

Because they gave their disturbed minor child a firearm.

[@Rawkstar1960]

@@mrs.kitsch8127 That’s a fair statement. However, I believe the defense contends it was the father’s responsibility. That he was the adult in the family responsible for “locking up the guns”. No one has explained this to me but why wasn’t the father put on the stand? Why weren’t they tried jointly instead of separately? I assume the prosecution is seeking to nail them both which is why they put the weaker of the two cases up first. If they convict the mother they’ll definitely get the father.

[@shellytacomedy]

She's an accessory in this.

[@GenuineJukes]

This chick is a burden to all innocent people. Oakland County circuit court is a joke outside of one judge. I won't name her because she's the only real person in that whole 1200 building.

[@turtletruth]

These parents are not the son and further, this lengthy process is the punishment ...! The system already took everything these parents had. Either way, the system utterly destroyed these parents’ based on another persons actions ... The only negligent situation here is the prosecutors ominous plot to destroy a young mans innocent mother which is darker than a cold moonless night...! Shame on you Karen McDonald ... You sold your soul for fame and misfortune!

[@jmo2104]

The defense attorney needs to lose her license.

[@GigglingHamster]

The prosecution is relying on pulling heart strings not facts. This is a travesty of justice to charge the mom.

[@shcl3329]

The prosecution's rebuttal hit the nail. Very strong, very emotional and yet awakening to facts and evidences. Very touching that the four young victims names were mentioned and their pictures were shown. Reminding us that Jennifer didnot lose everything, that her son is alive.

[@gaia-papaya8772]

She did lose everything, she also lost her son.

[@Breezy-o1w]

​@@gaia-papaya8772she can write him a letter! That's not lost! He's not dead unlike the victims! Shut up

[@gaia-papaya8772]

@@Breezy-o1w I guess you’ve never broken up with someone which leaves an emptiness much like death. She’ll never hold him again..regardless of letters. He may never get her letters, people will make sure that. But yeah. YOU shut up 🤫

[@tyroneperry2471]

They don't have a case, not guilty

[@shellytacomedy]

​@@gaia-papaya8772she didn't cherish her son before the shooting, she won't cherish him after. Losing him was her own fault

[@Mrs_Jackson]

It was over when JC stated we took the shooting range & his gun from him, she hung herself, that's ball game for her & her husband. Out of everything this jury heard they certainly heard the part "his gun" under cross. The parents will be made an example of, guess this will end these horrible shootings!

[@lastfirst78]

This will lead to prosecutions of single parents.

[@Ad-Lo]

@@lastfirst78 then those single parents should not purchase their minors firearms illegally then leave them lying around.

[@Mrs_Jackson]

Why single parents? Only single moms have guns accessible to their kids? That's obviously not the case as we see here! This will teach parents to step up, take accountability for their children, parent them & not have firearms where they can access them. Does not matter if this leads to a single parent or a married couple as parents who are prosecuted. Something MUST be done & holding parents accountable may be the only answer. How many more lives are we going to senselessly lose before this ends?

[@jessicascism891]

​@@Ad-Lominors get guns all the time on the streets illegally and the parents have no clue especially single parents because you know they do have to work and support their kids

[@brendabest697]

Great Rebuttal!! However, NOT GUILTY!! You have your GUILTY person!! NO POLITICAL HANGING!!

[@lynnc637]

Great rebuttal.

[@chawkinz]

State's case and close weak. Defense got it together for close. Should be not guilty.

[@grazful1]

yeah because the defense had a child she didn't want.. right? 😂 how does telling that story help her client😂

[@GoDSaveTheChildrenJohn316]

Terrible. Guilty or not. This DA is terrible

[@danielcook2412]

She didn’t have to throw the fugitive task force after these 2

[@GoDSaveTheChildrenJohn316]

@@danielcook2412 I agree. I also agree it was all political. I’m scared what this will do to the rest of the country.

[@normamccormick2839]

Not guilty

[@dawnrobert5449]

I pray she’s found not guilty!!! No evidence to support the mom could have ever saw anything like that ever happening just based on the little things she did know.. she’s not a perfect mom but none of us are!! She’s definitely not guilty based off the little evidence state has!! NOT GUILTY!!!

[@Greg_call]

Huh?

[@lisahernandez8307]

The fact that Ms Crumbley said she wouldn't do anything different😮

[@paigenicole1982]

If she would have said she would have done anything differently, you all would have ate her alive on the comment section. She did the best she could with the information she had at the time. What happened since then she can’t change.

[@lisahernandez8307]

@@paigenicole1982 That's her BEST? Would it be the same if it were YOUR CHILD? Parents need and should be held ACCOUNTABLE FOR NEGLIGENCE

[@ppmax008]

Just one simple question: "Does evidence show that Jennifer expected her child to murder people?" If the answer is "No", then it's not guilty of involuntary manslaughter. Period. She has to know her action or inaction will cause great bodily harm or the lives of other people.

[@lauramartins5953]

Exactly.

[@tyroneperry2471]

Thank you

[@mklove8823]

Most humans, most parents, most neighbors, most co-workers will tell you that they never ever thought that "they" would do something so horrific. Even with weird, strange or scary behavior. Most people will say I never ever thought "they" would kill someone. Parents never believe the worst about their kids.

[@dclaireparsons]

This trial is very important to a number of children of neglectful narcissistic parents.

[@ac703]

The school needs to be held accountable if the parents are come on get real!!!!

[@liset4081]

Right!

[@shanaknibbs3790]

She looks mad unprofessional pausing and reading from her notes. If she needed notes that bad, she should have stayed at her table, or the podium where she could hide her script.

[@vickiesims1600]

This lawyer whines as if it’s about her and not about the case. Pretty poor defense

[@Beswift1989]

Say the victims names ❤

[@toddjohnson5176]

Karen Mcdonald is a phenomenal prosecutor. She is making this smug defense attorney look like a complete amateur. She is eloquently showing just how responsible and guiltily this fool crumbley is.I love it.!

[@coxcox7350]

Facts 👏 I agree with you 💯!! Karen is so professional and classy love her. Its hysterical when people say they love the defense attorney. Defense attorney is the most unprofessional and rude attorney I've ever seen. She's also unhinged it's scary 😳 😬.

[@sandib4234]

Guilty 💯

[@lynette5960]

That was awesome! Prosecution was amazing! If she is found innocent, I will be surprised

[@briannaoxford863]

I didn’t think the prosectutor got the last word? Shannon did an awesome job. I did not care for either prosecutor. Let’s see what the jury decides.

[@rubyoro0]

How confused can someone be?

[@briannaoxford863]

You are confused?

[@gaia-papaya8772]

I agree, she surprised me how well she did 👍🏼

[@briannaoxford863]

@@gaia-papaya8772 I googled her and she has quite a repetation. She’s defended a few big names.

[@steffendix]

Bad, bad actress PA Shannon....reading from the papers 🙈🙈 repeating and repeating things...🙈🙈

[@Sunflower-lu3sm]

That’s true she said she wouldn’t change a thing. That was not an appropriate message to send. I don’t believe she was referring to what Ethan did but more to the parenting she & her husband did. I think she tried to be a good parent. Compared to some they were good parents. At the same time, you could argue that comparing them to other parents they were not as good as they could have been. They were going through hard times at this time in their marriage. Life is hard and she was the top bread winner (at the time) with a lot of responsibility. She had a lot going on in her personal life and her comfort was her horses. I think if she was in the wrong, it was not making her 15 year old son go with her to care for & ride the horses. That definitely would have helped him from thinking only about himself. Ethan was at odd age. He was perfectly old enough to stay by himself but not mature enough to. I think if these parents are to blame then so should villains & violent video games. These kids that have done these shootings are caught up in a fantasy of these games without a clue what death really is.

[@sarahmelissa4253]

You can tell the judge is over that awful defense attorney 😂

[@MariePerral]

The other defense is very rude from the beginning of this trial. No respect from the judge at all.

[@paulfildes5489]

"WE TOOK AWAY HIS GUN and the range targets" - case closed. Great admission of 100% gross negligence in the cross examination. Ethan had unrestricted possession of the loaded Sig Sauer - as the image he took of it when his parents were asleep. There was no cable lock on it. Then she tried to say she didn't say that...although we all heard it. Guilty as charged.

[@JaniceBurandt]

Don't like Prosecution.

[@buddyfromyourgrandmasattic2363]

Its always really easy to tell when someone can just barely afford an attorney.

[@jimlewis2395]

Defense attorney talking about Taylor Swift songs 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@bruceadams9542]

High visible case trying to make History , I think it wont be fair for Jennifer that is all I have to say. I am very sorry to families who lost there kid and to the students 🙏

[@WormyJoe100]

Already not fair. The Crumbleys have been in jail for over 2 years now…Most would be out on a tether, they are being used to set an example and to enhance Karen McDonalds career…

[@breach669]

Not Guilty

[@turtletruth]

Shame on you Karen McDonald for throwing the first stone ...!

[@annmoore8696]

You never Hear The Judge Even Speak 😮 ⚖️

[@gabebannister8411]

I have never seen a defense atty this ridiculous!!!! She literally interrupted the closing rebuttal!!!!

[@Ad-Lo]

The judge is not even listening. She’s fidgeting. And it’s so disrespectful to the parents who lost their children to this tragedy.

[@RunetteHamilton]

She always looks zoned out

[@gaia-papaya8772]

Just cause she’s fidgeting doesn’t mean she’s not paying attention. 😵‍💫.

[@Susieq0408]

The judge is very aware of how her hair is placed to highlight her drop earrings..🙄

[@gaia-papaya8772]

@@Susieq0408 she was on point!

[@LunaShimmyDiva]

Defense attorney interrupting rebuttal? To complain prosecutor’s making *her* look bad? Sorry but defense attorney just made herself look bad all by herself!

[@steffendix]

The son is the GUILTY person, not the parents for their really bad educational and personal character's behaviour.

[@grazful1]

they gave a 15 year old depressed child access to a gun!

[@gaia-papaya8772]

⁠@@grazful1omg Wanda, this is America. The kid would’ve found one, one way or another to get one, he was determined.

[@carrow1057]

@@gaia-papaya8772 they handed it to him on a silver platter and did not seek mh help for him. NO CIGAR!

[@parthenocarpySA]

They aren't being charged with bad education or personal character, they're being charged for providing the gun

[@parthenocarpySA]

​@@gaia-papaya8772is your assertion that this was completely unpreventable? Without the gun access those four people are still alive

[@dianeveasey4361]

I believe that Shannon did a great job. She made Jennifer into a human being. The Crumbley's have already been in custody for two years, that should be enough punishment. They have lost everything, and you can see the difference in Jennifer. The school dropped the ball by not checking the backpack, 4 children would still be alive today. All the school shootings and they decide to prosecute these parents. My verdict "Not Guilty"

[@vanishedforgotten433]

I agree had the counselor sent ethan home knowing what was on that math sheet he seen it and let Ethan get help befor returning this woulda never happened either. BUT yet he even chose to let him go back to class so he should be charged to. but they need to charge the principal then with the involventary murder then of Justin shilling because she stated Ethan had the gun down and didn't point it at her so she wasn't in danger so she coulda tried to get the gun from ethan because she was in contact with Ethan befor he went back into that bathroom if I understood the statements right he went back into the bathroom after he ran into the principle and that's where Justin and the other boy was that ran out. So had she stopped Ethan or kept him busy Justin would be alive! It's all just so so sad I get it and I feel for the families. Start charging people that could have prevented it then

[@pamelasamat8040]

I agree

[@geoffpoole483]

Jennifer is a selfish and repulsive individual.

[@gingerritchie1839]

Spot on!

[@justmyopinion053]

This country is full of bad and even horrible parents. Is this what we want to set as a precedence? If every negligent, self absorbed parent goes to jail if a child goes terribly off track should the parents go to prison? What if there's other children in the home? Hand them off to even worse like the ridiculous foster care program? What's the solution?

[@rowenareinertsen4749]

I didn’t think counsel can argue during closing arguments. She’s a joke!! She’s making a fool of her client.

[@parthenocarpySA]

Since when can you give out guns consequence-free? Ethan went 15 years without killing anyone, then his parents bought him a gun. Direct correlation

[@MsKeebe]

Of course, his parents are upset. But, when I saw her weeping at the defendant’s table I was angry. She has no right to cry. She could have prevented this tragedy but she ignored the signs.

[@stefanredlich4429]

Horrible prosecutor. So freaking biased and only cares about herself.