NHL: Embellishment Penalties/Fines Part 4

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[@Jens95]

I had this video scheduled to go public at 2pm CT, but the officials in the Panthers vs Blues game decided to hand out an embellishment penalty so I quickly had to add it and re-upload. DeAngelo was the only player to be fined for embellishment.

[@sakup_]

Dedication. Great video once again!

[@Slyse]

I know, I just saw this one live!!

[@rayanmukhales557]

i don’t see how lomberg embellished, he got up right away and had a chance to get the puck

[@shawnagar6016]

no clue i was wondering the same thing

[@lokei1326]

Nothing should have been called there. Same play happens at least a dozen times a game and no calls are made

[@iamteeter]

just a bad call

[@xxxMekyoxxx]

I watched that game. I'm a Blues fan. IDK what the ref saw? Nobody knows what the ref saw.

[@ewoktopia7425]

Refs forget they play on straight thin blades. Just look at his feet after he gets pushed, he tries skating through it but his feet just don’t agree with him.

[@erikhuisman2487]

" I just don't see that" as he jumps and kicks both legs out

[@staal54a]

So what happens if you are moving forward and then your upper body gets stopped but not your lower body?

[@AD_Drums]

@@staal54a exactly

[@russell2952]

​@@staal54aNormally a player would fall. He was imitating a dude getting shot in a spaghetti western.

[@staal54a]

​@@russell2952 have you never seen someone that doesn't know how to skate fall like that with no help? Why can't an NHL player fall like that when being impeded in an illegal way by another NHL player? When a player takes a big hit in the chest that causes them to go airborne, where do their feet go? It would also be incredibly foolish to embellish like that as well since that puts himself in a dangerous position. That's why slewfooting is so dangerous. All of that plus the player's reputation for being an honest hard working player and the fact that being a bottom six forward without impressive offensive stats means doing something negative and avoidable (if it was embellishment which I think it wasn't), like taking a penalty in a playoff game, hurts his value. Additionally, if nothing was called, he would be way out of position for a good shot to come through from the point by Nashville. Also wouldn't help the value of a 2 way forward to be making mistakes like that. Now, the whole embellishment argument is probably based around the fact it looks like Jarnkrok "only" hooks him and every hockey fan has seen a thousand hooks where someone doesn't fall. The key here is that they are not trying to go in the same direction. Jarnkrok is trying to do something akin to a pick (though again he gets his stick under McGinn's arms and then brings it up quickly) while McGinn is trying to skate past/around him to take his man at the point as he is a winger. So McGinn's upper body is impeded but he is still trying to get out to his man at the point. Unless he is strong enough to overcome Jarnkrok's impedance with his stick and intentionally not going towards the point (he'll likely head to battle in front of the net afterwards if no penalty called to provide a screen), his upper body will be slowed down and since McGinn's skates are pointed towards the point, they don't have enough friction to stop and so keep going. His legs go forward and since his upper body is behind relative to them and his legs don't pop out of their sockets, they stay attached and follow an arc, which brings them into the air and then he falls. Notice also how McGinn's head stays at Jarnkrok's shoulder level and Jarnkrok brings his arms and stick up at the end. This means that McGinn didn't add any upwards momentum to his upper body via something like a small jump, which could be a way to get a call. Also notice his right arm spinning in circles, like someone does when losing their balance in a precarious situation. And, again, purposely falling backwards on skates while being tied up and not in a good position to catch yourself is idiotic and not even worth the potential 2 minute power play an actual embellisher is trying to get. All of that together which, minus info about the player, is available in the video and is why I don't think that should have been embellishment. Just because someone falls in a seemingly cartoon manner doesn't mean there wasn't a reason but unfortunately most of the people commenting about his legs going up in the way they did, which is natural as I explained, choose to not think (it's an active choice to not think when you take a stance and you refuse to analyze the available information at the time) and just give their "valuable" knee jerk reaction. Of course the guy I'm replying to also said on the Wedgewood injury video that it seemed odd that some players can pick up their teeth off the ice after getting hit in the face and keep playing but a goalie kneeling gets injured (while basically ignoring the complexity and issues with playing goalie with any type of injury and the problem with playing through pain and making the injury worse). So I'm probably wasting my time on someone that doesn't understand hockey (not saying I understand it well myself as mainly a fan but I have been watching it consistently for the past 20+ years). Typed this on a phone so I'm sure there's grammar errors but I don't really care as long as my point comes across.

[@politicalbandwagon4989]

That Lomberg penalty was such a shit call on both sides. That play probably happens 50 times a game. He just took a small bump and lost his balance. Not a penalty on the blues player and not a penalty on him either since he got right back up and kept going after the puck. If he was trying to sell it he probably would have stayed down.

[@deusvult6920]

Nah it was interference

[@stark1987]

i mean, on the carolina nashville one, you really have to be committed to embellishing to throw both your feet up over your head like that, lol

[@Hebrovic35]

On the Arizona Columbus one he gets slu footed

[@Defossion1]

I think I understand the embellishment rule even less than I understand the balk rule in baseball.

[@RoyalMela]

If you dive or make the foul on you look more dramatic, you get a penalty. It is very simple.

[@ghost-whitesand9447]

@red vegiesoup nah, it’s a sports thing. It’s an unsportsmanlike thing to do.

[@encycl07pedia-]

@@RoyalMela If the rule is so simple, why is it misapplied so often?

[@heavysnow8616]

Thanks Jens95 for providing top-notch hockey video’s. I appreciate your hard work. Take care my friend!

[@paragonca9736]

the difference in bias from the home team announcers when the home team gets embellishment vs. the away team is absolutely hilarious

[@rivahkillah]

Anyone else notice "Holy Diver " playing when Kadri got called for embellishment? 😆

[@brew1116]

Wowww. First of all, great catch, second, big props to that dj.

[@xpex1209]

been loving the content mate. keep it up!

[@Alex_Forlini]

Wow some of these announcers are straight brutal. "How can it be a penalty if it's a dive? And how can it be a dive if it's a penalty?" That's not how it works. You can sell a call, while the initial call is still a penalty. How do these guys even have a job

[@RoyalMela]

Agreed. It is very rare that someone dives without any foul on player. They sell it to the refs and most of the times they are called on it too. The original penalty does not disappear just because the opponents dives.

[@robm9581]

@@RoyalMela then he isnt diving; he was tripped or whatever; diving is when nothing is done and you dive to make it look lik there was a penalty

[@AM34Gavin16MM]

@@robm9581 which is why it's called embellishment and not diving :)

[@RoyalMela]

@@robm9581 Okay, just call it overacting. Same thing.

[@nsaldi913]

If anybody doesn’t know what embellishment means it means being extra dramatic or being a soccer player and kicked in the shins or tripped

[@James-hz5ef]

Thx lol

[@mute2928]

How was that a penalty on Ryan Lomberg????

[@splash3366]

can you do more goalies standing up for players?? thats my favorite video

[@NicholasHume]

Rasmus Kupari really making a name for himself with his diving

[@bumsuckaduck]

How tf is the Stutzle one an embellishment?

[@bobcranston3414]

Exactly! If it's a dive, it's not a penalty.

[@LucinaMomento]

ik this is late but I think the reason they always call both is, it usually *is* already a penalty, however the person who dives does so to make the penalty look worse to get the attention of the ref, thus they call both.

[@kjrav23]

3:20 dumbass was laughing and then realized he got penalty too and mood changed real fast

[@LukeYoungBass]

It's wild how many dives are from home teams. I guess they think they can get an easier call with the fans freaking out?

[@nathanieltheoret2971]

They should have this for soccer

[@claytonhilliard925]

They do. It's called simulation.

[@ianjanicki7725]

Brock mcginn dove all day on that play. I think it was a good call by Kelly Sutherland

[@Simone-uu8ne]

How can there be a call for hooking and one for embellishment for the same play? I mean, you either hook or they embellish.

[@lagon7830]

As much as I love 4 on 4, I agree with the announcers, if theres a penalty there's really no embellishment 99% of the time.

[@perunovich]

In the first clip for the blues #48 Perunovich is my cousin

[@pieshka4509]

They should show a little more digression with the call. Yea there are actual penalties and a player will flamboyantly react to make sure there is a call, but some there isn't a penalty and they just drop

[@MrUpsidown]

This is the kind of video where you know very well who will be featured...

[@mctoads8230]

LA trying to sell a call, big surprise 😂

[@TheHTiainen]

Gotta say, embellishment penalties shouldn't exist if it means both players are going to the box. As they are now called they seem more like the refs are trying to even out the calls with them or the refs are blatantly playing the guessing game. If you see a penalty, you call it. If you see embellishment on a play you call it. There shouldn't be a "Yeah, he hooked him but then again he went down too easy considering the hook". The refs can't know if the player in question had his balance off or not in the play.

[@colbyscott9822]

Yeah, they should be mutually exclusive penalties. If you embellished, it seems like that sort of implies there was no actual penalty.

[@francismori7]

They call embellishment penalties when the players take a dive to make it obvious that they were hooked or tripped up, it makes perfect sense. The initial call is there, you just drop to your knees to make sure the referee calls the other guy, you're sus and you go too

[@TheHTiainen]

@@francismori7 The initial call however is not always there and that's the problem with it. The refs aren't going to whistle a penalty easily when the opposing team's been taking say 7 penalties and the other team 2 in a game that's in the 3rd. Embellishment shouldn't be a thing because NHL, in it's nature as things are now, is an entertainment business first and a serious sport business second.

[@CoffeeMatt10]

Embellishment means to exaggerate. The penalty can still be called for slashing as an example, but if you make it look worse than it is then that is embellishing the infraction. 8:10 there’s a little slash at his feet, that will get called for a slashing minor, but he doesn’t need to act like the guy wound one up and let rip. He has exaggerated the infraction, that is embellishment. I think embellishment gets confused with diving, they aren’t really the same thing. A dive would be when there is no infraction, it’s fabrication as opposed to exaggeration. I don’t think it helps that they call diving as an “embellishment”, it’s the wrong word for the action that has taken place.

[@TheHTiainen]

@@CoffeeMatt10 The problem with embellishment is that it's totally open for interpretation. Some referees call it, some don't. If you look at 11:41 e.g. there wasn't even an initial call on Mantha. Slashing is slashing and it warrants a 2 minute minor, wanting to keep the game close warrants Kadri a 2 minute minor for embellishment. It wouldn't have been a call if Kadri didn't go down. Ergo, they should just stop calling embellishment minors because in most cases they don't make any sense. You're literally setting a standard in your own head as a ref for what counts as "going down easy". What's the point of having a good player in your team trying to fish for PPs if the only way he's going to get them is being hospitalized? Other than both players going to the box.

[@jovannybolden]

first clip should've been no penalties at all. i thought everyone was overreacting about the reffing this year but i guess everyone was right 😂

[@samdoucher8450]

Now if we could just get these referees to officiate FIFA soccer matches...

[@encycl07pedia-]

If upon review the players are judged to be NOT embellishing, they should get a bonus taken out of the refs' salaries that would be the same dollar value of the corresponding fine. Some of these calls are atrocious. I personally can't skate on ice, but I imagine slipping and falling down, especially when you're tussling with sticks while going 10+ MPH down the rink is still pretty common even for pros, right?

[@K4rN1v00L]

its a great rule keeps the integrity of the game and neither team gets advantage from PP

[@jackanderson9461]

The only one that seems wrong was the Stutzle call, don’t think that was an embellish.

[@mattmccutcheon2683]

First one didn’t look too bad either

[@leonf4721]

Also the one on hischier

[@bumsuckaduck]

It's because people think Stutzle has a reputation for diving, including the refs. He just happens to fall easily. It's sad that calls are made on rep but that's a result of human error.

[@mattmccutcheon2683]

@@bumsuckaduck oh wow I didn’t know that, I like Tim, I agree though I don’t think they should let rep effect the calls

[@rivahkillah]

@@bumsuckaduck don't get a bad rep

[@LD_9]

How did Nico get embellished against the bruins he got cross checked to the ice

[@michaelmeyer2725]

5:54: Was that really a Don "Have another donut you fat pig" Koharski sighting?

[@xLucky89]

I am never this early

[@independentmind7782]

Your ex-girlfriend disagrees

[@marksyvret5542]

@@independentmind7782 OH MY GOD

[@codebreaker710]

I never understood the matching penalties. Either one player embellishes OR the other player does trip/interfere/whatever but how is it both?

[@juha1428]

nah sometimes it's fine, 3:45 is good example imo. What I don't understand is that they never call just the embellishment which is just ridiculous.

[@ChrigiKro]

I think the point is that players don't try to sell a penalty too much which I can understand (looking at soccer).

[@independentmind7782]

It can definitely be both.

[@lokei1326]

@@juha1428 it's because they don't have just diving as a penalty. Just the word embellishment signifies that something happened and you're making it seem like a bigger deal, that means a penalty did occur. If there was just a diving call then they could but the two are listed as the same rule infraction.

[@-Subtle-]

Watch soccer in Europe. Then realize how bad hockey could be ruined by embellishment.

[@DavidBrocekArt]

I would pay to see embelishment calls in football too.

[@Turtle_Tortillas]

The video would probably be too long.

[@LugiaPWNZ]

13:10 we not gonna talk about this or

[@bigbengamer]

So I guess the rule is if you're gonna get penalized against, don't fall down or you're in trouble too?

[@adamhenry5791]

Don’t Soccer My Hockey…

[@GhostGhoat]

Carolina announcers just don't see it.

[@homeofhockey7071]

Alright tough guy 1:21

[@Mopman33]

I always assumed my teams home announcers were the most biased in the whole league. This video made me realize every teams announcers are just as bad.

[@ronstoll5896]

Can you imagine if they had an embellishment penalty in soccer?

[@RoyalMela]

Yeah.. refs yellow card gets out the pocket so often the radiation turns it white.

[@HuggyGamesXbox]

I didnt More then 1 or 2 small dives…. Wtf! Refs have no sense of gameplay

[@platyuis]

I agree with some of these announcers. Should not be matching penalties and just have the embellishment be the only one.

[@tiladx]

Embellishment isn't limited to diving. Embellishment also includes adding extra "drama" to your reaction, like flailing your arms and throwing your stick while going to the ice after being tripped.

[@RoyalMela]

So the original penalty disappears if the opponent dives? Penalties do not disappear. Call both. Two fouls, two penalties.

[@artisteric]

Imagine if they had this rule in soccer. 8 hour game anyone?

[@max36047]

They do, simulation is a yellow card. I'm not saying there isn't diving in soccer, but there is a lot less than you think there is. It's the only sport where you are consistently running at full speed with people kicking at your feet and ankles.

[@Trippster36]

So many of these casters are absolutely clueless. It is so obvious when a player is helping a penalty along by flailing their limbs and body along to exaggerate the impact of the penalty.

[@MrBattlecharge]

Some of the announcers are just too stuck in the old ways to understand what these calls are about. The announcer @12:45 saying "I never understood that call" when the captain just flops on the ice and stays there - he is trying to sell it. He didn't try to brace himself, he didn't get up right away. He took himself out of the game just to make sure the other guy got the penalty. If he had tried to not fall, got up right away and continued to play he wouldn't be penalized and the other guy still would have gotten the penalty. Not a good captain move in my opinion.

[@AE-vd6mi]

I like all these calls. These are the greatest skaters in the world. In my opinion, if they wanted to stay on their feet they would. Additionally, I think we would all agree every other sport should implement more embellishment calls; therefore if there is to be any error, let’s err on the side of too many: ensuring 100% effort all the time.

[@ohnicotv]

12:27 How tf is that embellishment?! Joke Refs

[@Blueman1018]

I think if embellished penalty should canceled the other one out

[@OtterPlaysYT]

I can’t with these refs they are blind

[@cippyyt1428]

That Canes commentator is so biased. Out of their clips, I would say only one wasn’t embellishment

[@thezachster1234]

I’m a canes fan and I feel like I can’t trust him with calls lol. Tripp Tracy gets so many wrong and is like OHHH I DONT KNOW ABOUT THAT. I JUST DONT SEE IT.

[@flanknstank1852]

The rule is if it’s a penalty against the visiting team it was a good call. If it goes against the home team then it was a bad call and the ref needs glasses or doesn’t deserve to be employed. Just my observation.

[@KA-gy3lz]

Freidman with the dirty hit and then giant soccer flop back to back... doesn't get much more trashy than that

[@garrettkucera1264]

how was Kotkaniemis a penalty, I think it was a make-up call for the previous where he got hit by his teammate in the face and not the stars player

[@nadnerb_sr20]

If they called embellishments consistently Wilson would never see the ice

[@curtism9702]

Most of these weren’t even dives 😂

[@artisteric]

Maybe not but the players who tend to do this are trying to good at it and diving got too obvious. Watch most of these in slow mo a d you’ll see that the refs are spotting these little things. A few of these were bad calls but overall the refs are sharp!

[@gussiejives]

First time I’ve watched an embellishment compilation and wow, this penalty is applied so inconsistently. The first three examples are clearly guys just getting tangled up in sticks and losing their balance. But the later examples are pretty obviously selling it.

[@isaacwurfel5473]

Never understood why 90% of the time they call both penalties. It's either someone interfered or someone embellished. How the fuck is it both?

[@RoyalMela]

Because both players broke rules. That is why. There was a trip, interference or any other penalty. Two minutes. And other player put too much mustard on it. Two minutes. Don't dive if you are fouled. Simple as that.

[@mynamejef7963]

I’m barely getting into hockey and god damn for a sport that prides itself on being tough these announcers are the biggest piss babies I’ve ever heard and I have to listen to joe buck more than I would like

[@kinamatic1]

the commentator saying it cant be both. yes it can. there's the penalty for the hockey infraction and then there's the penalty to prevent hockey becoming like the most disgusting sport there is, know as soccer.

[@MbeziAmsterdam]

When it comes to the fighting, the commentators most of the time have no clue what they are talking about

[@RyoKiden]

They should remove embellishment penalties. Just don’t call anyone.

[@UFConnor16]

I’ll never understand how you can call embellishment and a penalty. If it’s embellishment, then it probably wasn’t a penalty to begin with, so why call both?

[@urupomias]

Wouldn't it just be better to almost never give both teams a penalty? If a guy goes down too easy, just don't whistle those, let them play. Leave embellishment calls for those few cases where they actually imitate soccer players, and then put only the guy who embellished in the box if you want to crack down on the issue.

[@rivahkillah]

I like that they make the call. On top of the stigma of being a known diver (known by refs and fans), they can get fined. Plus it's usually the team of the player that's guilty of embellishment that has possession so that's lost as well.

[@luke_skinner]

McGinn literally jumped

[@robm9581]

who cares if a guy embellishes; if he was tripped, interferred or hooked its a penalty. now if he embellishes and he isnt touched thats is diving unsportsman like; otherbthan that it is a dumb penalty

[@raedeon]

The commentary teams are so bad lol. One of them says "it's either THIS or THAT" and then makes an analogy where it's both

[@atldru15]

The application of the embellishment rule is trash. "Yes, I know he hit you while you're skating 20+MPH, but you lost too much balance. Penalties for both." What a joke.

[@jleif7736]

This argument is absolutely garbage. "He's going fast on skates how do you expect him to not fall". Have you ever skated? You have way more balance while moving than you do standing still lmfao. Its not even a debate, so don't try to,

[@rivahkillah]

The penalty is saying "I know you got punched, but you shouldn't act like you got shot"

[@johnyounoe6219]

@@jleif7736 Oh sure let me push you while your standing and then while youre bicycling 20 MPH. Which one you gonna recover from dumbass?

[@expxnd5167]

@@johnyounoe6219 LMAO

[@robm9581]

@@jleif7736 i know you have never skated let alone played hockey; this college bull crap getting into a good sport is ruining hockey

[@thecaptain7825]

First

[@nacho1595]

Nobody cares

[@JTFilms03]

Half of these are terrible calls

[@FaintAcrobat]

I f***ing hate how the NHL does Embellishment penalties. I think you should either call only an embellishment or the other penalty, not both. Either something happened that deserved a penalty or a player embellished contact. As it is now is completely ridiculous and doesn't do anything for anyone or make it a deterrent.

[@matthewscott3708]

I'd like to see literally any of these refs get hit or hooked or slashed like these guys do and still have the balls to say they embellished LOL WHAT A JOKE

[@deusvult6920]

What a stupid comment

[@matthewscott3708]

@@deusvult6920 What a stupid reply

[@robm9581]

@@deusvult6920 idiot reply with no experience

[@deusvult6920]

@@robm9581 I played hockey for 15 years. Sit down child

[@deusvult6920]

@@matthewscott3708 nah your comment was objectively retarded. Didn't even manage to get 1 like it was so stupid 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@failtolawl]

homer announcers are just annoying.

[@oilersnation739]

Terrible penalty call. Embellishment is so dumb. You either interfered with or played that you were. You were either hooked or not. Goes on and ok. They on skates and ice. Ppl lose an edge ever minute lol

[@RoyalMela]

It is a great penalty. Keeps players in order and not turning the game into soccer.

[@robm9581]

@@RoyalMela no it doesnt; a solid punch to the face keeps you in order because that hurts

[@kiler90]

I think its absolute garbage the fact that refs can get away with calling a penalty AND embellishment... if its a penalty how the hell can it be an embellishment for the other player, absolute garbage

[@RoyalMela]

Two penalties. One players makes the first four, other players dives to make it look more dramatic. Two fouls, two penalties. If you don't dive, you don't get a penalty. If you dive and no-one fouls you, only you get the penalty. What is so hard to understand that two fouls make two penalties?