JGMaker Artist-D Extruder Issue Deep Dive

[@kerseyfabs]

Update #1: After I uploaded the video last night but before I posted it this morning, JGMaker responded to my video in the comments and directly via e-mail. They are on holiday at the moment and said they will be in touch when they return.

[@othmanalghafri9821]

I really don't want to get my Artist D with this issue unresolved. JGMaker, are you listening?

[@JGAURORA3dprinter]

@@othmanalghafri9821 yes, we are hearing, I have reported this issue to our engineer team

[@jeffjordahl6301]

@@JGAURORA3dprinter Thank you for acknowledging you are listening. It makes all of us feel better to know that you are working this issue. Please add dual-gear extrusion to this, or your Pro Upgrade. Either way, it looks to be sorely needed.

[@a-tick]

Did you ever get a grip on how to fix this issue? My printer should arrive any day now.

[@ianwright8988]

@@JGAURORA3dprinter .and they did nowt still sent the printers out with the same problems and not just the first 200 .. kersey fabrications told the truth about this printer and is the best review i have seen on this printer.. a lot of these reviewers get the printer for free and that can make them be a bit biased to the makers.. this is all fixable .. i have modified all my stuff on this printer and now its printing well for me.. only thing im concerned about now is the nozzle.. they are selling off the nozzle's and looks like they are bringing out a new one.. if the new one works how the first one should have i will get them if they are not a stupid price... if the price is high i will replace the hot end and have done with it

[@aos7194]

I appreciate your opinion. I am 1 of the Kickstarter investors and look forward to seeing if a dual gear system is added to the driver system

[@CB_agotchi]

Luckily for JGMaker you're around to do R&D for them.

[@kerseyfabs]

😅

[@ScottWorthingtonC3D]

well this is a beta version of the printer as well...

[@3dpprofessor]

That's kinda the plan and, quite frankly, it's good to see a Chinese company working with a community.

[@daveincaol]

A bit late in the day but, I had a slipping gear in my extruder on an Ender 5. What I did to resolve it was to hang weight on the release lever. No difficulties since. What I have noted is the the extra pressure on the lever causes the gear to bite into the filament leaving marks that can be felt with fingers. Did you find any markings on the filaments to indicate that the gear was indetenting the plastic. I am was considering getting a production model of the JG Maker but will cancel my interst and wait to see if the issue is resolved. Thanks for the great review and update.

[@chrisleech1565]

Thanks

[@kerseyfabs]

I missed this when you did it but I still wanted to come back and say "You're welcome!" and "Thank You!"

[@ScottWorthingtonC3D]

I have not had the same issues as him. I have checked it all fully just like Kris did I think part of the thing is I do tend to run my temps a tiny bit higher because I tend to print faster.. Now I'm only printing at 120mms on the artist D and my hotend is only at 208... Now the issue I have is I do not like cura and have not been able to tune it like I like so I'm swapping to ideamaker for the Artist-D. I will say a BIG thanks for him shouting out about me and him talking because honestly I felt most of his testing he had already done before him and I talked. Now the heating block idea I came up with and I do not have a spare heating block like the one I wanted to run the test with so I asked him about it... great to see that it worked (yes I saw pics and all beforehand from him) but that means no more worries about different sized nozzles or hardened nozzle with a simple heat block swap everyone can have all the options we currently have...

[@kerseyfabs]

Thanks Scott. I appreciate the feedback. Nice working with you.

[@nerys71]

are you getting anywhere near 120mm/s ?? ie what are the firmware hard limits (if any) on this machine? I was thinking they were pretty aggressive as this slice is 4 hours but I am at 6 hours now and only 75% through. I am slowing things down to 50mm/s with x3 p300 for jerk and acc as I always do with cr10 sized machines (I don't mind slower if it means cleaner plenty of printers if i need speed) Would love to know if you are getting 120mm/s and what the prints look like I will be sure to check our your vids!!! Got first print going now sliced up tree frog in simplify 3D (2 color) and so far its working fine. slightly over extruding still will turn the mp down to 0.90 for the next print and see how that goes. Really hope this machine works out. super excited to have an idex!!!

[@ScottWorthingtonC3D]

@@nerys71 there are no firmware limits and hardware wise I run most of my printers at 150mms. This one can do that or better depending on the way you tune. Im using my firmware that jg maker is going to be using on the production version. Im actually testing an even newer version of the firmware in hopes to get it done in time to go on the production version.

[@nerys71]

@@ScottWorthingtonC3D Nice I look forward to it !!

[@kerseyfabs]

@Nerys Hit me up via e-mail if you'd like the firmware I built. [e-mail]

[@stevemcleanmeltingpointdesign]

Having invested more than 600 on my ender 5 plus to make it as I wanted. This artist D is my next improvement/MOD project. Yes out of the box ready is what we need/expect , but for the price I will be paying, the money saved will go into extrusion mods. Of course, if JG have time to sort this extrusion issue, that will be great. Thanks for your work Kris

[@nerys71]

Interesting. so far I am having the opposite issue. too much extrusion. down to 0.92 and think I need to go down a tiny bit more. I have NOT tested consistency yet still working the first print (sliced up a 2 color tree frog in S3D) I will be sure to make some tests for that. TOO TIGHT will definitely cause under extrusion. its counter intuitive but remember the filament is plastic. plastic as in "it can deform and give" and too tight what happens is it crushes/squishes the filament and pushes it "back" and prevents extrusion and it stops or just chews into the filament. this one might be finicky where it needs to be well tuned in pressure. so far mine seems to be working well enough to finish a print but no way to establish quality of consistency until I have more prints in place. I will make some more calibration test prints before feeding it a 100 hour print. do you think replacing the feeder might be feasible? ie adapting something more reliable to fit in their?

[@kerseyfabs]

I agree, too tight could cause this problem and that would agree with my findings when I tightened fully. I could try a softer spring, which I'm sure I can find. My biggest concern about that is that we could be looking at a fragile balance. I never got to long-term print testing due to the extrusion issue. In my first video on this printer, I had a simple Megalodon Benchy fail from possibly under extrusion. So I didn't want to waste any more time/filament after my findings. My thought was to replace the whole assembly but to fit something in the cage would probably not work. I don't know of another all-in-one assembly that's that small.

[@nerys71]

@@kerseyfabs agreed if the balance for tension is too slim of a margin you'll never properly get attention as a filament changes slightly throughout the role you'll move outside of that very fine limit of range hopefully that's not the problem :-) I sliced up a two-color tree frog in simplify3d last night and it came out pretty nice I thought I had a misalignment in the head off set but then I looked more closely at the slice preview and realize the model themselves are slightly misaligned :-) I have a couple more prints to do so far they're looking okay before I attempt a larger 120 hour multicolor print

[@perryismyname7280]

This video is old but I had a few prints with tons of under extrusion. I just removed the filament runout sensors and its started running a lot better. The ones on my machine take a lot of force to pull through and I can see the machine struggling to pull the filament. When you do this you also have to disable the runout sensors in the settings.

[@kerseyfabs]

Thanks for the idea but that still means that the extruder isn't working properly and it's slipping. It's not a bad work-around though, if you don't have another option.

[@thewalabee1414]

Once again, a very good battery of tests and the results presented well. Thanks Kris.

[@kerseyfabs]

You're very welcome!

[@eduncan911]

And here I am, looking at two brand-new BGM-clone dual-drive extruders sitting on my desk, doing nothing... Begging to go into something. I've went the route of Flex3Drive's extruders on my Delta as I didn't have time to design a "flying extruder" setup.

[@Roobotics]

I know this video is old, but this could very likely be the end-result of poor thermal transfer to the quick-release nozzle. You can't just measure a static bloack near the thermistor to see if it gets to temperature at a flowing nozzle, how much heat is lost into the plastic and does the metal in the nozzle keep up with the thermal block? The loose fit they have possibly isn't good enough. Also in general these days, there are some great extrusion flow-rate tests to see if a specific region of extrusion speed is where this shows up. Possibly worth revisiting sometime if it's still around.

[@GauravGulati2019]

Great follow-up video, Kris. I hope JGMaker can do some more testing on the Extruder slippage, and deliver a better extruder unit. Hopefully, Scott can help push them as well. Thanks for all that you guys do.

[@kerseyfabs]

I hope so too. Thanks!

[@TubeRadiosRule]

Since there has to be some looseness/gap between the heat block and the nozzle in order for the quick-change feature to work, I wonder how well putting some heat transfer paste on the nozzle before installing it would work? I just ordered one of these printers on EBay a couple days ago. Hopefully in the two years or so since you made this video they've worked the bugs out. If I have the same issues first thing I'm going to likely try is heat transfer paste.

[@bastiaanbaaijens]

An other point of view about the extrusion problem. What about the nozzle with the teflon tube in it. Will the heat have enough time to melt the filament. I have no experience with other nozzles, but I can imagine that the small amount of copper which will heat the filament is not enough. And can it be that there is some inconsistency in the filament that will give different result as the melting area is critical small. Just my 2 cents of thoughts.

[@kerseyfabs]

There seems to be a lot of concern about the nozzle which is why I tested it with a completely different heat block/nozzle assembly. I even went another step further and ran a temperature check inside the original nozzle: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZqGaf3aupa97i5o Everything looked good. I can't guarantee how fast it can go but it was hot at the tip. As for filament inconsistencies, if I was using budget filament, I may be concerned but this is high-end filament to avoid those issues.

[@bastiaanbaaijens]

Kersey Fabrications. Now I remember that you switched heat block and nozzle. About the temperature check. When measured at one moment it looks good. When extruding, will it be consistent? I have the feeling that the operating window is quite small that when you operate at a higher temperature the operating window will be more safe.

[@GatorGlider]

In the reviews video with the breakdown of how the extruder is put together the first thing I noticed is that it looks very similar if not a clone of the titan aero. What would be your opinion be of changing the extruder out to something different or aftermarket? I had already thought of doing this because I want to be able to have a all metal hotend. So going to a different extruder like the titan aero would seemingly solve two issues.

[@kerseyfabs]

That's what I'd have to do if I purchased this printer and what I may do to mine here. It shouldn't be too hard to adapt but it will require a little work given the break-out board and all. If I do it, I'll film a video.

[@GatorGlider]

@@kerseyfabs Thanks for replying. I'd be very interested if you replaced one extruder and did a comparison test to show that the titan aero (or another extruder) did not suffer from the same issue as the extruder that comes with the Artist D. It's going to be expensive for those of us that backed the printer to buy two titan's, but we'd go back to having a standard nozzle type and it would open up the ability to print nylon or other engineering grade materials with the appropriate support filament in the 2nd extruder.

[@MrBrandonbarlow]

Did this ever get updated and fixed

[@kerseyfabs]

Not that I've heard.

[@Siphonife]

@@kerseyfabs I assembled my Artist D pro yesterday and IMMEDIATELY noticed under extrusion. I'm getting upwards of 30% less mm's than what should be coming out. Adjusting E-steps just produces random results. I can't predict how much filament its going to feed. I suspect its just slipping on the filament so I'm gonna try what I can to increase the tension. Sadly a hard screw almost never works. That spring has to be able to give. I modded my previous printer to run a bowden with a NEMA 23 and it can feed enough filament to go 150mm/s now lol

[@kerseyfabs]

@@Siphonife Sorry you're seeing the same problems as I did. I may be working on an overhaul to fix mine in the future.

[@jasonbutler3949]

wondering, as i am having more than a few issues with this make and model of printer, if you know of any support groups? i have only attempted 15 or so prints since purchase nearly 3 years ago, only 2 have come off the bed being even close to what i designed. filliment feeding or overheating issues, the bed itself rocks in place under the extruder, based on that its near impossible to level; just wondering what everyone did with there printer after the reviews were done.

[@Graham_Wideman]

Hey Kris, how confident are you that the extruder motor isn't skipping steps due to insufficient drive current, possibly due to resistance or intermitents in the cables or connectors? Elsewhere in the comments, Scott Worthington says he's very impressed with these cables. However, it only takes one interconnect or one conductor to be undersized to create too high a resistance. The reason I raise this is because each time you increased the load, the results got worse, even those adjustments that should have caused a higher grip between hobbed gear and filament. Ideally you would use a scope to examine the motor voltage waveforms at the motor and compare them to those at the controller board. And is this board really using A4988's? There's even a possibility the driver's getting overheated -- a bad batch might not have been soldered down to the thermal pad properly. If they are pluggable, it might be interesting to swap the extruder driver with one of the axis drivers.

[@kerseyfabs]

I'm 80-90% sure the motor isn't skipping. I have not verified it with a scope or through other testing but I did run a test that I didn't show where I clamped the filament in place for 100mm extrusion and then looked at the filament. It clearly showed that it ground the filament during that time and did not simply skip. The grinding wasn't particularly deep though, so again, not 100% certain it never occurred. I believe that the wires are sufficient and I'll tell you why. If that wire can carry the current necessary to heat the hotend, the current for the motor should be no problem. I verified that the chips are A4988s and even have a photo around here that I took to verify the resistors and chip. Heating should not be an issue due to a heatsink and an active cooling fan.

[@marcellofialho677]

I have the same problem with my printer (which is not a JGMaker Artist D) with a specific filament. With hatchbox pla it works fine, but with filamentum filament, I guess because the surface is very smooth, very shiny, my titan clone extruder is not able to push it when it reaches the third layer. So it ends up clogging, but it is a clog that is easily fixable, with cleaning filament or even pushing the filament by hand. So this is just a heads up, others may have had no problems because they used easier to push filaments. I could run an extruder calibration, but since I already know the right one (because it works with other filaments) it seems pointless to me.

[@kerseyfabs]

You're right, the finish or hardness of the filament could be an issue. Keep in mind that this is never a clog though, just slipping.

[@liljashy1463]

I also talked to Scott several times but I've had nothing but extrusion issues with this printer as well

[@kerseyfabs]

Sorry to hear it but that seems to be reasonably common.

[@supercool3544]

what do you think about the artist d pro option that was just released

[@kerseyfabs]

That's a tough one. Honestly, I need to see a fix for this problem first. BUT, for the money, it's not a bad upgrade. You couldn't upgrade those yourself for that price.

[@supercool3544]

@@kerseyfabs ive mulled it over and decided that these are completely optional upgrades, and essentially would not be a "true" upgrade unless you use the touchscreen a lot. i use octoprint, so minus a few rudimentary settings id never touch it. the meanwell powersupply is always nice but ive never had an issue with a generic one, at least on a 3d printer.

[@GatorGlider]

@Kersey Fabrications, I really appreciated your videos regarding this printer. I did back it. I now have this printer in hand and have to say that it is a well put together machine. Would you mind doing a follow up to these now that these printers are making it into the hands of backers? I would really appreciate if you could touch on setting up Cura profiles and maybe fit in a deeper dive into working with IDEX (Marlin & slicer) printers.

[@kerseyfabs]

I appreciate you reaching out. I would love to see what's been updated on a shipping printer and if I have better results. I don't have any plans to do any more with this machine (at this time) but I would be interested in seeing a new one. So we'll see.

[@GatorGlider]

@@kerseyfabs I look forward to any more information you share on this guy. This is the second Kickstarter printer I've received and must say that it is extremely well put together. The closest machine I can compare it to is a Creality CR-10 (mostly in terms of size). It's build is much easier than any of the Creality machines I've had the opportunity to assemble. I've run about a dozen dual color test prints through it for calibration. I'm seeing some oddities regarding extrusion, but I haven't ruled out the test filament that they sent with it. I must confess, I wanted to see it do dual color so I set it up and went straight to that. I'm drying the filament in my EIBOS Cyclops and will start really trying to work on getting it dialed in. The issue that I'm seeing is that if I measure off 120mm and extrude 100mm I get consistently 25mm at the measurement point, 5mm under extrusion right? I did a 40x40x40 single wall, no top/bottom, and no infill to get a single line extrusion width and came up with an average of 0.48. This was without adjusting e-steps, over extrusion?! Again, this could be filament. The prints so far have the look of over extrusion. I'll test again after the filament is dried 6hr at 55C. It did have some noticeable popping when making a nozzle caddy for their unique nozzle design. I'll try to keep you informed of any discoveries. I might not go as in-depth as you did to uncover any issues!

[@woodwaker1]

Very detailed and insightful examination. It seems like the only good solution would be to replace both extruders, which may or may not be difficult using their break out board. A dual extruder system with bad extruders is not very useful

[@Angwolf1966]

So, to be clear, is it under extruding because the actual stepper motor skips, or is it under extruding because the filament is not being "grabbed" properly?

[@kerseyfabs]

I'm sorry if I still wasn't clear. Here's how I'm using the terms: Extruder Skipping: This would mean that the extruder motor was skipping steps. Extruder Slipping: This means that the filament is actually slipping through the extruder gear. In this case, it is slipping because the extruder is not grabbing it properly/tight enough to push it through the nozzle. This was the purpose of my extruder motor test, to make sure it wasn't under-powered.

[@Angwolf1966]

@@kerseyfabs Then, it is the filament slipping. That seems to be a fairly easy fix with a bit of fine tuning the tension, either via the included knob or a replacement screw. All that needs to happen is for the extruder's gear teeth to dig in a bit deeper into the filament so it stops slipping. Anyway, thank you very much for your quick reply.

[@kerseyfabs]

That was the point of testing adding a tightening screw and testing a different drive gear. Neither of these fixed the problem.

[@Angwolf1966]

@@kerseyfabs Taking into account that I do not have one of these printers yet, and that I'm only going on what I have been able to see on videos, the extruder seems to be very similar to an MK8 type. What is preventing the tightening knob or screw from pushing the bearing closer to the extruder gear (pinching the filament more)?

[@kerseyfabs]

@@Angwolf1966 The knob on the front of the extruder doesn't do anything except give you something to push on. It doesn't tighten anything. In test #4, I inserted a screw into that same hole that allowed me to tighten down the extruder all the way. It didn't help. Rewatch that segment for more info.

[@MrTomashb]

I started up my Artist-D today and the first thing I did was to calibrate e-steps. I did not get consistent results precis as you. Best result when printing with +10 degrees more than normal as you got. I have had similar problem on an Ender 3 and the solution was double toothed gears.

[@kerseyfabs]

I'm sorry to hear that! I hope you're able to work out a fix. I still have mine, just haven't been able to circle back around to trying to fix it.

[@donb4138]

I recently purchased the pro version and I have not experienced this issue, yet. Maybe they have made changes. I ran a several hours of recommended settings for the PLA I’m using and the run out were very repeatable all within less than 1 mm. Not sure of what you experienced but this one does not have that problem. I followed the dr Vax set up procedures. I would like to change out the fans if anyone has a suggestion.

[@culbeda]

First off, ALWAYS try the easy things first! And nothing is easier than increasing the temperature. You wasted time and effort swapping out parts before even trying to increase the temp. And then you wasted more time and effort AGAIN to test more things before testing the temperature accuracy. Secondly, the PTFE tube on this model, based on all the reviews, goes almost to the end of the nozzle means. This leaves very little metal at the end to melt the plastic. So what do you have to do it compensate for the limited exposure to the heated metal during extrusion? You have to raise your temps! So it was not only the easiest thing to test, it was the most likely, given that you'd already seen the HE assembly. For anyone else troubleshooting extrusion, try disabling the steppers (or disengaging if your extruder has a release lever) and pushing filament through at different temps to gauge the resistance. That is a really quick and dirty way to approximate the right temp and even help you identify other issues, such Bowden tube friction, extruder gear alignment, etc.

[@kerseyfabs]

Wow... thanks for the advice... I think. Your delivery could be a little less edgy though. As I showed though, the hotend temp really didn't fix the issue, it just masked it. I showed by replacing the nozzle and heat block, the extruder still slipped. I also pointed to another KZbin video that showed possible slipping and by raising the temperature he made his prints worse. While this is only one example, I would expect similar results. Thanks for the feedback.

[@chrisleech1565]

Are you checking comments from over a year ago? I have a good question for you in regards to upgrading the extruder to full metal like the micro swiss or similar to run 260C materials.

[@kerseyfabs]

As long as KZbin notifies me, I sure do! What's up?

[@chrisleech1565]

@@kerseyfabs Well, I have been getting some quotes back for a project that I want done in PP GF30. I could even accept the prototype in ABS GF 15. They are complete nonsense But both require Aquatek X1 water soluble support. And nozzle temps of ~260 THis is not possible according to JG. Nor do they sell hardened steel nozzles at this time. So.... do you think it might be possible to upgrade the hotend given the layout of the guts of the extruder assemblies? I am quick on my feet and have lots of tools and skillsets but I would be interested in your opinion so I don't have to buy one only to find out that I have wasted my hard earned

[@chrisleech1565]

respondants have only offered ABS no composite in a FDM and Nylon 12 no composite in an SLS machine. (Laser sintering)

[@chrisleech1565]

@@kerseyfabs What I am saying is that the quotes are more than I can afford. $300 for plain ABS or Nylon. And I want to mess around with material that is capable of dealing with engine bay temperatures with a high output V8 motor that I have created an upgrade part for. Automotive industry uses Polypropylene with Glass Fiber 15% I must at least have something that will deal with the heat spike after shutting off the motor on a hot day, and resist deformation as well. I could prob manage ABS with GF

[@kerseyfabs]

@@chrisleech1565 So do you want to retrofit a cheaper printer or just buy a nicer one?

[@cellarboy72]

I think your temperature accuracy may have been flawed -- you were still checking the temperature at the heat block, not at the nozzle. Check out 3D Maker Noobs review of the printer and he noticed quite quickly there was an air gap between the heat block and their slip-in nozzle and when he tested the temperature inside the nozzle itself it was much slower to get to temperature than the heat block thermistor showed. This would explain why the temps need to be run higher to provide the same melt temp in nozzle itself, to account for the insulating air gap -- at least with the OEM nozzle. If you haven't seen it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i3zFcoSAfdmHeKc Also with the PTFE all the way down into the nozzle tip, that does not provide a heck of a big melt zone inside the nozzle either. I wonder if an all-metal nozzle with the PTFE removed and some high temp thermal interface material on the nozzle shaft might make it work better.

[@kerseyfabs]

Here you go! Take a look: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZqGaf3aupa97i5o

[@ScottLahteine]

My very first impression of the extruder on the JGMAker Artist-D was that the "Raptor"-style toothed gear that's supposed to grip and push the filament is completely the wrong type. Years ago I did some testing with that type of gear and it was never workable. Even with a tight spring, the flat teeth on the "Raptor"-style gear simply slip and chew up the filament. The best type of filament gear is something like your standard MK8, and importantly is should press the filament against a skate bearing idler and not against a fixed surface. You might try modifying the existing filament gear by sticking it into a jig and "hobbing" it yourself with a thread cutter.

[@kerseyfabs]

Take a look at this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/goLNm5ivp8SUjbM This shows it a bit closer. I don't think the teeth are that flat and it does have a bearing as the idler. It just doesn't work here. I don't think it's tight enough.

[@bastiaanbaaijens]

I saw in the video a bearing which the filament is pressed into. Can you confirm it? What does a skate bearing be different?

[@avejst]

Interesting test Great video as always. I hope the firm is changing this essue and the partcooling end the endproduct. Thanks for sharing 👍😁

[@prahjister]

I suspect the ribbon cables come into play. Look at all those connection points.

[@ScottWorthingtonC3D]

the ribbon cable on the Artist-D blows away all other ribbon cables I have seen on a printer... no way for them to be loose of anything like that.

[@willschmude2365]

@JGmaker My extruders keep running into eachother, my Z dived and ruined my bed, the extruder pushes out my nozzles and other things to.

[@blackwolfecc]

I do find it interesting that most other reviews didn't go into extruder issues, or calibrations. It would be interesting (off screen) for other reviewers to do a few extruder calibrations to see if the problem can be replicated across all test samples. I'm a backer, and plan on sticking with it. As much as it's a bit annoying there are possible extruder issues, I had full intention of replacing them as soon as I got the printer. That's just a my use case and I understand that's not the intent of those backing this printer. Will be interesting to hear what JGMaker has to say. Thanks for the indepth dive on the extruders, and glad to see some capricorn tubing used in those nozzles. I was curious if that would make a difference or not.

[@ScottWorthingtonC3D]

I posted a comment as well I HAVE run the exact same base test as Kris without any issues. I honestly wish I had had them or something close to be able to say yes it's in fact an issue lets find the source my problem is mine was never off except for the first try when I found that the knob on the tensionor was caught on the housing a tiny bit easy fix. so Now with me not having the issue I run into the issue of not having a test subject... BUT I'm also glad Kris had the issue because he was able to do a bunch of test including swapping to a e3d V6 style heat block and using standard nozzle... so now we also know that we can do the same and have all the nozzle sizes and types out as well... Maybe I should try volcano...LOL Maybe not ... LOL

[@blackwolfecc]

@@ScottWorthingtonC3D As these printers start rolling into backers hands, and more of us get time to really put them through their paces, a consumable and alternate part video would be valuable. Being able to swap out the heat block and use standard nozzles is a good example. Being able to swap in a volcano or not... even more valuable information! I'm not expecting this printer to be perfect off the line, but I still feel it has HUGE potential. With the right support, I really feel this could be the Ender 3 of IDEX printers. JGmaker just needs to stay on top of the more common issues. As for Kris's extruder issues... I'd like to see this spread to everyone else who reviewed the printer and get a general consensus on extruder quality and accuracy. Shouldn't take long for each, but would provide a wealth of information to relay back to JGMaker. Thanks for the reply, I genuinely can't wait to get one of these in hand!

[@peteradshead2383]

Wow , A full stock ender 5 plus working in the background and not even upgrading the bowden tube to capricorn .

[@kerseyfabs]

You never know what you'll find around here! There's actually a point to that printer and I'll be showing it off soon.

[@ASURMlN]

What are melameters? /s

[@kerseyfabs]

I understand there may be some variance to how this word is pronounced depending on which country you're from. I stand by mine. 😀 www.google.com/search?q=millimeters+correct+pronunciation&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS880US880&oq=millimeters+correct+pronunciation&aqs=chrome..69i57.7503j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[@efnick96]

I haven't seen the 1st video so sorry if you have already tried it. I believe you should just try calibrating your extruder steps and probably acceleration for it.

[@efnick96]

It most definitely is a hardware problem but give that a try. Also maybe change the driver of the e motor

[@kerseyfabs]

In the first video, trying to calibrate the extruder is what led me into this problem. It will not calibrate due to the slipping. I've used the A4988 on a lot of extruders with no issues. It's not the newest stepper driver but it's always been reliable.

[@SilentRush420]

Nice work man! Keep it up.

[@kerseyfabs]

Thanks, will do!

[@TravisStamper]

Thanks Kris. Love the content and the deep dives into the hardware. Keep it up please. Also I am gonna email you about something I saw on one of you videos quite a while back but with the state of the world have not had time to get to it. Thanks

[@kerseyfabs]

Thanks Travis, I appreciate it! I look forward to hearing from you.

[@karlhunt]

So did you ever get an answer? Because they have been ignoring me since my ks printer showed up, loud a$$ fans and all.

[@anteck7goat]

Bunch of reviews with no negatives, or pointing out that all the drivers are not silent. Subscribeing to you and unsubscribe from some others. I hope JG maker continues to give you free samples, and pulls support from those who fail to properly cover the review units.

[@kerseyfabs]

Thanks for your support. Since I don't know whom you're unsubscribing from, I have no comment on those reviews. 😉 (P.S. I don't want to know. LOL)

[@scottbaeder37]

I would say that in general, just because you use a given temperature on ONE printer, it is not a given that the same temperature should be used on a different printer. I applaud your efforts to look at different heater blocks, etc. and the "accuracy" of what the temperature probe reports. But as you said, the proof is in the pudding, and printing an actual temperature tower to look at the interaction between the cooling and the temp inside the nozzle/extruder, etc. is important. For example, if there is teflon tube all the way to the nozzle or does the heatbreak have a little metal before the nozzle. One last thing I would have liked to see is a benchy done AFTER you dialed in proper extrusion, even if the temp is a bit higher than what your other printers do. BUT still (as I said) Kudo's on the effort!

[@kerseyfabs]

Here's more info on the temperature of the nozzle: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZqGaf3aupa97i5o I'm still not interested in an extruder that slips if the temperature's a little too low.

[@scottbaeder37]

@@kerseyfabs No arguments from me here. Sounds like they skimped on the gear (ie you really can't use a "normal" gear. It needs sharp teeth to bite. Even if it was dual gear. If they are just dull gear ends (made to mesh with other gears easily), it won't properly grip. All heat does is make it easier to push.

[@lazarjovic9948]

Love your videos, one tip to improve your video quality a bit is to setup a teleprompter, that would allow you to keep looking into the camera while reading from your script. Thomas Sanladerer has a pretty good guide on his channel! It's

[@kerseyfabs]

Thanks for the tip! Since I use notes and not a script, I haven't really thought of using a teleprompter but it would make for a more polished look.

[@lazarjovic9948]

@@kerseyfabs you can use a teleprompter with a list of bullet points as notes, rather than a scrolling text. It's less information dense than notes on paper would be, but like a PowerPoint presentation a single can go a long way

[@a-tick]

Hey Y'all! Just wanted to let anyone who views this video know that a few workarounds have been found to this kind of issue. One is that you put a small metal plate inside the idler, between the idler spring and the tightening screw. Another is that you simply put a washer on the tightening screw on the outside of the extruder housing. I can confirm that at least the first solution does something, it really brought down the E-steps needed and did improve underextrusion quite a bit. Check out the Artist-D subredddit if you want more info. (r/artistd) That said, the extruders are still pretty crap all things considered. A good plan would be to eventually invest in some better ones when mounts start showing up, but the machine in and of itself is pretty solid.

[@kerseyfabs]

Thank you for the feedback. I'm glad some have been able to find some work-around. Too bad they couldn't have shipped it with one.

[@xenotrim]

I know you posted this a year ago, but I was having the same issue, and I used the washer on the tightening screw you recommended. It takes some tweaking still, but seems to improve the under extruding drastically, so thank you!

[@a-tick]

@@xenotrim you're quite welcome! Honestly the Artist D has just been collecting dust since I posted that 😅

[@NoIPHU]

@@xenotrim Many thanks! I have some filaments (mostly the shiny ones/glitter looking ones) that resulted only ~60mm extrusion instead of the 100mm. Added a washer and it works quite great (100mm with 100 e-steps).

[@pnowicki]

Where exactly do you add this washer? Any pics or videos on the installation. I can't fanthom how a washer on the outside of the extruder assembly would do anything but reduce the travel of the screw. Where does this washer go?

[@yogician]

Great video thanks

[@kerseyfabs]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@NotAimen]

Like Scott will say it's a cheap printer if you don't like don't buy it . Thanks for the video you are one of the reviewer who really test the printer .

[@Grennie1981]

I got my Artist-D Pro 4 Weeks ago with the same problems, now i am in contact with JGMaker... Quote out off the last Mail... Hi , Thank you for email . Sorry to give you bad experience . But we have tried my best to help you . That video is very early and we have updated this problem . We change it , we don't meet your problem .

[@kerseyfabs]

Sorry to hear that. At one point they told me they fixed it with a firmware update which, as far as I can tell, would not do anything for this problem. I've heard from some people that seemingly have no issues. Others have contacted me to confirm the issue. Either way, I am still considering replacing the extruders on mine.

[@Grennie1981]

​@@kerseyfabs I think the same. A firmware upgrade will do nothing. They provided me a profile for Cura wich doesnt help but trys to mask the under extrusion. Then a new Nozzle and new Gears with more Teeth and guess wat, it got even worse. Now they try to fix my machine with me. If it not works i will try to return the machine and refund my money. Was my first machine from them and probably my last. My One Star Review on Amazon might helped a little bit so Gaowei Tech is in charge

[@Chrissi33004]

Thanks for the update. I know this is a real problem and more inexperienced people should drop the Kickstarter over this problem. No doubt. But if you get this printer for unter MSRP (flash sale or super early bird) then I think it’s even worth it to just replace the direct drive setup with two dual gear extruder Bowden tube setups. This, and proper part cooling, will be the mods I will do first on my printer. On the other hand I wouldn’t buy a $600 printer that can’t extrude properly. i hope JGmaker fixes those issues at least for the pro version.

[@kerseyfabs]

I agree that the price is right to make this a mod printer. I do expect a working printer out of the box though. I hope they make some quick corrections.

[@lookin4ward1]

Well done

[@kerseyfabs]

Thanks Tony!

[@jasonhurdlow6607]

I just bought two of these (for a great price), one for me, one to donate to a school. I'm going to be really pi$$ed if this is still a problem with no easy fix.

[@zpepe]

So in conclusion the printer is under extruding due to a design flaw. This is very disappointing to here. I'm a backer and was really looking forward to this printer.

[@kerseyfabs]

That is my conclusion. They still have a little time to present a solution before the end of the campaign.

[@Chrissi33004]

Kersey Fabrications yeah but the problem is implementing the solution at a factory level. This campaign is rushed. They should have waited for all the issues being fixed before even starting the campaign. And now they are having a nice 7 day holiday instead of working on fixing the problem. It looks like they are just stalling until the end of the campaign. It wasn’t just „coincidence“ that their campaign runs now and time gets short.

[@ScottWorthingtonC3D]

@@Chrissi33004 all this would take is a change to dual drive extruder while not easy they might be able tot do it. I do agree that ALL manufactures should focus more on the beta process and avoid sending beta products out to reviews and customers. If they take the time first to do it correctly it will avoid many issues along the way.

[@Chrissi33004]

Scott Worthington how are they going to do it if they rather spend their time off and delivery is set for November? A change at a factory level isn’t just done overnight.

[@ScottWorthingtonC3D]

@@Chrissi33004 i don't think its a design flaw i have run the same test as Kris with mine and I do not have the same problems as him . I think the issue is his exact beat printer not an general flaw for example if his is slightly out of spec. Or heck maybe mine is out of spec hard to justify based off 1 or even 2 printers

[@techformsmaster930]

3dprinting, the only time where 1mm is important

[@highcooley]

Arrgh, not another slipping extruder 🙈

[@kerseyfabs]

Yeah. It's just not a fun problem.

[@Masso1973]

“Malimeter”? 😄

[@kerseyfabs]

Sometimes I speak a bit too quickly. 😅

[@SwitchToRumble]

Do not buy