Jim Keller: Elon Musk and Tesla Autopilot | AI Podcast Clips

Full episode with Jim Keller (Feb 2020): • Jim Keller: Moore's La...
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Jim Keller is a legendary microprocessor engineer, having worked at AMD, Apple, Tesla, and now Intel. He's known for his work on the AMD K7, K8, K12 and Zen microarchitectures, Apple A4, A5 processors, and co-author of the specifications for the x86-64 instruction set and HyperTransport interconnect.
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[@ekbastu]

"Progress disappoints in a short run and surprises in a long run. "

[@Adam-io9lw]

@@NautilusTSG Hey, that's my name!

[@eldorado1244]

@@Adam-io9lw ...who cares

[@Adam-io9lw]

@@eldorado1244 You, maybe?

[@nunya___]

@@Adam-io9lw I'm not surprised. They say the universe is made up of Adams. You were bound to bump into another one sooner or later. 🌌🪐✨🤼‍♂️

[@Adam-io9lw]

@@nunya___ I never thought about it like that 😃

[@elpusegato]

It's amazing hearing such brilliant words from a guy who looks like you'd see him at a truck stop in Kentucky

[@k4piii]

For real 😆

[@rexlincoln2046]

This guy is part nephilim. He is married into family with jordan peterson and he is part of the tech industry and releasing technology that is going to be part of "solutions" in computers that entirely think for us. The peoblem is that the original designers want to skip anything organically happening with time to learn, instead he follows what the previous computers tell him to do. Computers hate humanity because in their computer minds we are just in the way to solving more problems.

[@Creapture]

I live within a mile of a truck stop in kentucky, this is true! reminds me of the Stephen Gould quote "I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.” aaaand truckers. lol

[@cifey]

@@Creapture When a line of auto mechanics goes to engineering school to piss off his dad.

[@xJRx7777]

Please have this guy on again. I thought you handled him like a true gentleman but I could see you were starting to crack a little towards the end of that segment. Very entertaining.

[@PhilippeLarcher]

in the beginning too XD

[@Eric-lh8iy]

‘Imagine 99% of your effort goes to reenforcing your assumptions and 98% of those are wrong.’

[@F15HHOOKS]

Yea, I fond that really interesting too. But what struck me is that Buddhists & Mindfulness proponents say that too. I didn't expect that.

[@Brad_Jacob]

Is anything what we really perceive it to be? Everything is wrong and right at the same time?

[@llevl289]

Eric G "Imagine 99% of your thought process is protecting your self-conception; and 98% of that is wrong."

[@SCWgreg]

llevl289 yes 99% to 98%.

[@mayankraj2294]

.

[@SCWgreg]

“We operate half a second behind reality.” Lex and Jim! Thank you! This deep conversation was one of the best posts ever!!!

[@paladro]

how could you ever prove that

[@SCWgreg]

paladro scientists already have. Based on all sensory, nerves, neuron and ultimately perception reaction times,

[@solarvanlife8177]

so we're living in the past

[@SCWgreg]

Solar Van Life... were reacting to the past. ;)

[@xXJeReMiAhXx99]

@@SCWgreg fake mind blow, obviously you can not react to anything literally instantaneously, it's physically impossible, half a second might be a good round number for normal conscious interaction but for say voluntary reaction time sub 200ms is common and I'd assume some processes are even faster than that.

[@matthewmoon2463]

"It'll be a $50 solution that no one cares about." Completely agree.

[@jnauttube]

Except he compared it to the GPS network which was not a problem of human intelligence, but a problem of infrastructure.

[@j00hizzle]

@@jnauttube driving is also a problem of infrastructure

[@cifey]

@@j00hizzle Well the messy human factors get involved, politics, legal systems, economic inertia etc.

[@trails3597]

Jim is like the first time I heard Elon talk, just mind blowing!

[@ivanmeza7089]

Their chemistry is weird. Great discussion though.

[@mohamedfahad2364]

I never seen Lex this uncomfy. This engineer smarts kinda humbles him in an awkward way!

[@mohamedfahad2364]

@@TheXV22 lex was a bit afraid of him.

[@abit9485]

It was funny to see Lex squirm in the face of hard facts.

[@diraziz396]

@@TheXV22 Reminded me interviews with #RobinWilliams may GOD rest his soul..

[@leinilyu]

He's like Lex's older big brother.

[@TheKingofpop370]

"99% of your thought process is protecting your self conception and 98% of that's wrong"..that caused an earthquake in my brain

[@previouslyachimp]

The earthquake is stage one in shaking things up to set your mind free! :)

[@cad3nce]

Yeah that bit really got to me too.

[@marksmod]

.99*.98 ~= 97 percent of the time your thought process is wrongly protecting your self-conception. It mustn't have been the multiplication, what did?

[@BritainRitten]

Timestamp for that sentence?

[@baselsalam]

@@BritainRitten if you want the context behind it, 17:20. The actual quote was 18:35

[@danesovic7585]

This guy is philosophical. Please have him again.

[@davis4010]

This is interesting observation in context since he is the brother-in-law of Jordan Peterson (doesn't explain anything, but was quite surprised to find it out).

[@venway5465]

@@davis4010 damn that’s really cool

[@GeorgeArellano]

Really interesting to hear this engineers POV from interacting with Elon Musk, it's really the best interview I have seen in a while. Because he is at the academic level of intelligence, but his ability to understand typical humans is clear and concise.

[@dariomijacx]

He is not just an engineer this guy is kind of a legend.

[@pearllee3682]

One of the reason im in awe with elon, imagine the brightest minds that u look up to eg. Neil de grasse tyson, michiu kaku, tom mueller, jim keller who are in d upper echelon of highly intellectual individuals and yet they still look up to elon. How can u not, elon has deeper understanding of physics, material science, engineering, ai and programming. Armed that with business acumen, hard work and max pain tolerance. Boom thats elon musk!

[@jeremylink3489]

Lol add seems to that statement to apply first principle theory....

[@jeremylink3489]

@Gary Ferguson lol but remember.. You could be wrong about that

[@GeorgeArellano]

Dario Mijač well, most legends are incomprehensible, especially engineers. This guy can dig ditches and build microprocessors.

[@PizzaLov3r]

Would be nice to have Jim Keller back for a second part interview about what his next projects are, what he wants to solve, create etc. Keep up the amazing interviews.

[@JamesDouma]

I keep watching and listening to this thing over and over. I think this might be the most entertaining and stimulating interaction between two human beings that I have ever had the pleasure to observe.

[@ryanmkeisling9089]

I feel like I do this and feel this with all of Lex work...

[@woutdel]

"humans tend to operate under large numbers of patterns and just keep doing it over and over with slight iterations" "to get out of all your assumptions, you don't think that's going to be unbelievably painfull? I'm really happy I had that experience to go and take apart that many layers of assumptions. Imagine 99% of your thought process is protecting your self conception, and 98% is wrong, that's getting the math right. (it might even be 98,9%, but it's definitely not 50% "

[@TheOnni1]

Yeah he was spittin bars for a little bit there

[@jorgedighero1325]

Thank you Lex for another fantastic interview. I’m very happy to have found a place that challenge you to think, to question, to imagine, to learn and to wonder. Please keep up the great work you are doing and thank you for making my brain flex its neurons.

[@jerellbarber6751]

This is oddly the most cathartic, weird, and interesting conversations I've listened to

[@michaeljburt]

Fantastic interview Lex- I have watched a ton of your videos. And your pushback here is excellent. Providing a lot of context here for the rest of us in how complex these problems. And clearly, how others are of a different opinion of how difficult these problems.

[@jaydenlangmead9667]

This guy is just ridiculous. He's contributed to the foundations of x86 and has worked on flagship product architectures at Apple, AMD, Intel and Tesla. As a percentage of all people working in tech, practically nobody has done just one of those things. Four is just insane. And yet, he's completely unassuming and humble in conversation. Doesn't take long for that amazing intellect to show itself, though.

[@MattVileta]

16:03 | Holy shit... did nobody catch this dig by Jim Keller?? It was masterfully done. XD

[@everlearnercaveman3990]

I listened to complete version in podcast. Jim is a legend and the interview is challenging and very intersting. I think Lex did one of his best interviews. It'll be quite fun to listen to it in 2030.

[@SardonicALLY]

Something is only difficult until someone tries to do it and succeeds ... then it isn't difficult anymore, and a couple of years later it is super easy, because we got used to it being the norm.

[@larjkok1184]

You obviously haven’t seen Free Solo.

[@SardonicALLY]

@@larjkok1184 My comment was an obvious truism, but not a cynical one. It is a simple statement of fact, and I did not say any specific thing is easy.

[@hugehairyfetus]

@@@SardonicALLY Peter Thiel's book Zero to One illustrates the dichotomy to which you allude. To go from zero to one (invention) is infinitely more resource-intensive than going from one to n (reproducing and improving inventions). Musk's genius (in my opinion) is that he seems to moving multiple zeros to ones simultaneously by moving an order of magnitude more ones to n (improving the efficiency of things that already exist on a vast scale), which is the first-principles deconstructionist engineering approach to which Keller and Fridman allude in this video.

[@paladro]

that's it, keep it vague, so nothing sticks... is your day job fence sitter or jock rider?

[@RoguePenguinScotland]

Even though topics are way over my head it's still fascinating to listen to. Lex you are one of the rare people i subscribe to that i can safely thumb up the video before even watching it. Always a pleasure!

[@mattmarket5642]

THIS is the content I signed up for! "We've been evolving for billions of years... to drive cars." hahaha

[@arielwollinger]

@3:20 nope. The roads in Brazil are dynamic. If it rains potholes will magically appear and water mains will burst and create gigantic hidden craters.

[@jonathanrocha779]

Yeah but when these cars become mainstream the effort to improve the streets would be imperative for the economy.

[@baselsalam]

The first car will notice a difference, slow down to "remap the environment". It's like us: when we are on a familiar road we go pretty fast, but the moment we notice "something's different" we "slow down" because we are "remapping" the environment. However every single human driver on that road with a difference (like a downed branch) will have to do that remapping. With autonomous systems, the fleet can learn together. The first car "remaps" and every other car can learn from it. Additionally, the "fleet" can seamlessly report obstructions to the relevant authorities so that it's cleared out quicker than it would be when relying on a fraction of humans who encounter such obstructions to text/call while driving

[@closetcleaner]

Technology will be improved to deal with it. Step by step, we're just getting started.

[@andreasdippel2072]

That was informative and entertaining. Thanks for your work Lex!

[@bmanfitz]

Look, if my 93 yr old grandma who drives through her front yard to get into the garage due to missing the driveway can drive fine, I'll trust the AI to be on that level or better lol

[@lost4468yt]

Well on the opposite note, your grandma could recognize pretty much any object with a much higher degree of accuracy than even the best AI. She could identify sounds better than any AI. She can rationalize millions of times better than any AI. I could keep on going. They're fundamentally different architectures. Could we implement our architecture in a chip? Very likely, but we don't know or understand our architecture. We simply don't understand how to implement the type of computations your grandma does, into a computer. We will get there, but at the moment it's very very hard.

[@bmanfitz]

@@lost4468yt My grandma admits she should have failed the vision test, yet she got her license renewed without issue. The point I was making is about the high percentage of people already driving without perfect results, then throw in the impaired due to drugs, alcohol, lack of sleep, distractions, emotional distress, etc. Yet, we're going hold AI to higher standards than we already live by.

[@lost4468yt]

@@bmanfitz Yes we should hold AI to somewhat higher standards. There's no point replacing a system if you think it's only "ehh" as good as the current one. Especially since there will be all sorts of unpredicted things, which could make it much worse.

[@xXJeReMiAhXx99]

@@lost4468yt a 93 year old's object/image recognition is not better than the latest AI alternative, perhaps in some regard it is but overall someone without great vision is currently beatable by a machine in my observation.

[@MacGuyver85]

LeviHB You don’t need to be able to recognize every object to be able to navigate through the environment. All you need to know is what’s static and what’s moving in what direction, at what speed.

[@naybobdenod]

Brilliant interview, to say the least. Greetings from the UK John.

[@victorcuevas8872]

This was a very interesting conversation. I don't think I've experienced anything at that level. It really opened up my mind in a different way that I'm still trying to understand. Thank you!

[@MatrixJockey]

I loved this interview.

[@UserName________]

"... the goal with robots is to maximize the givens" - Stunning definition by Jim Keller.

[@sirousmohseni4]

Love this conversation. Lex's body language is loaded with statements. Jim is right on.

[@kraken-sx2ys]

Thanks for the video!! :)

[@tarcisiomarinho3121]

Lex face when Jim says: "Human beings are really slow, we operate half a second behind reality", at 23:38

[@tarcisiomarinho3121]

bateu a lombra

[@afpv2225]

That was interesting. Never thought that.

[@lars2638]

Our perceptual experience is what will happen. That’s what illusionist exploit

[@atlantamore]

His statement only applies to the awareness of an infant. Most human beings can predict events to happen well before they do based on stimuli given to them at every present moment.

[@_PatrickO]

@@atlantamore If you have to always predict, then you are still always behind. You compensate with prediction.

[@JellyFix]

Fun video!! Nice work.

[@lassej.d.n.4869]

Not knowing anything about electrical engineering or AI I found this whole interview very interesting to listen to. Lex Fridman asking questions and being sceptical made Jim Kellers answers more elaborate. So keep asking questions and don't be afraid to sound stupid, it's crucial for the listeners.

[@marksmod]

15:40 The difference in complexity between implementing/building the software, sensors and car to autonomously drive a car versus assembling a car in a factory is the space of possible states the environment can be in and conversely the amount of reactions the system needs to know as an answer to said environments. The space is far smaller in the factory as opposed to the latter problem of self-driving cars. The reason we do not do this in the factory is not a matter of the size of the complex space of the problem, it is because the sum of hard- and soft- ware costs exceed the cost of a worker (in a given time-frame, of -lets say- 3 to 10 years) performing a similar task in the factory.

[@Jason-gt2kx]

I would like to see a guest discussing artificial gravity. Maybe Larry Young from MIT?

[@macgreiner]

This way way more interesting that I thought it would be.

[@walidbouguima2771]

I truly enjoyed this. Keep up the good work Alex!

[@isaack8453]

Great conversation!!

[@ForrestNeal]

I love how monotoned they are. You can tell they are truly speaking from a place of logic - a breath of fresh air

[@djmips]

6:23 ... but I can't trust you because you're a human... that's something a human would say. LOL

[@mertgnrful]

he knew it before he starts the conversation

[@Neura1net]

That interview was awesome on both sides

[@Conkee1711]

So fascinating. Thanks Lex.

[@MMABrosPOD]

Great interview 👍

[@ThomasVachuska]

Great chat to listen to.

[@diraziz396]

Great talk Lex. Thank you

[@peterokaru670]

In regards to questioning your assumptions about things - 18:38 "Imagine 99% of your thought process was protecting your self conception and 98% of that's wrong..." I felt that. Kinda makes me think of spirituality and being brought up in a particular religion then later going thru the process of deprogramming yourself by questioning everything you've been raised to believe. Most folks won't traverse that road because it is painful but it's totally worth it.

[@VasuJaganath]

What an incredible conversation!

[@Smellindamix]

Fantastic discussion. Such a great insight to human understanding of physics, the issues we face and progress that we can make

[@mpetry912]

this series is super interesting thank you Lex

[@Overbelaste_Belastingbetaler]

Ty for the ZEN architechture. My ryzen 2600 is still killing it

[@famnaff5136]

Lex, I don't remember seeing you flustered. Great interview.

[@jayc3905]

God damn that was great conversation.

[@Anders01]

I think Lex might be correct, that self-driving cars is more difficult than it might appear at first, because of all the edge cases plus meta model of society needed. I hope AI will be successful at driving cars but I want a both/and approach where I can drive the car manually if I want to and like crazy and if there is any danger then the AI kicks in. And at other times when I'm lazy I can just let the AI do all the driving.

[@danielroden9424]

the edge cases are the gotchas though - white trucks in a white snow squall, construction zones and jersey barriers, accidents making those static roads not so static, big pot holes or other debris that will spear your battery pack. etc.

[@dinbach488]

This guy is extremely fascinating. He operates on a deeper level.

[@cheponis]

Super-courageous interview, Lex. I knew Jim a little from Tesla -- as in evidence, whip-smart.

[@profkg6613]

This guy is incredibly smart, articulate and confident..no wonder Lex is uncomfortable..

[@bukurie6861]

Thank you for your interview❤❤❤😍🌏

[@jestronixhanderson9898]

8:55 beard fluff incident! Lands on chest.

[@rajusapkota5623]

Very perspective. Good job though 😁😁

[@king6dutch]

Good conversation. Interesting stuff. Do computers and visions systems have the capability of acting and calculating so fast that even human chaos becomes a ballistic calculation on the computers timescale? Are we to become almost like stop motion animation to the computer?

[@LEDewey_MD]

Fascinating discussion!

[@Xplinter91]

first video I see of you, thank you for having such an interesting conversation I really enjoyed it, specially when he talked about Elon Musk personality

[@japrogramer]

I just learned tensorflow 2 .. what should i build now?

[@theredflagisgreen]

The clips channel is my favorite, thanks for sharing!

[@arielwollinger]

Lex got owned so many times

[@shepherdsknoll8]

Ariel Wollinger , never saw this Jim Keller before but he really “owned “ Lex.

[@lost4468yt]

Really? Jim seemed to be wrong on so many things here. He's taking a hardware approach to everything, which just doesn't work. The arrogance of assuming that teaching a computer to drive a car is easy is crazy, even the example of the aggression calculation, it just doesn't take into account all the conditions of driving.

[@arielwollinger]

@@lost4468yt well, I'm no expert, but only time will tell. I think Tesla had the best team for the task.

[@xXJeReMiAhXx99]

@@lost4468yt lol what conditions is it not taking into account?

[@lost4468yt]

@@xXJeReMiAhXx99 The number of conditions isn't practically enumerable. That's exactly why it's such a hard problem. There is *no* simple algorithm to determine that.

[@lorito6995]

A hardware guy... I like

[@lwwells]

Lorito such an understatement. Lol

[@tamhewitt-baker5602]

Jim makes me think of the chap out of bladerunner. I keep on expecting Lex to start asking Voight-Kampff test questions.

[@superloose5632]

Jesus... after listening to this I’m up for the Neuralink interface implant. Lol

[@kwansikkim8712]

Fascinating conversations between former boss(of the boss of the boss) of mine and young MIT scientist !

[@agee1961]

This dude looks like he will murder Lex at any second lo

[@martintran602]

Maybe for this reason Lex didn't want to make eye contact with him. :)

[@RamkrishanYT]

It looks like the monologue supervillains have when they explain their master plan

[@nadnet77]

No wonder. I would look like him if my wife was Jordan Peterson's sister

[@mbeliv3763]

So smart this guy!!! I like him!!! ❤️

[@pacificranch7451]

I love the small disagreements.

[@BernardWei]

As it turns out, you were right, and Elon now agreed that solving full self driving is a very hard problem.

[@Ottee2]

good talk

[@walidbouguima2771]

This man has an incredible self-confidence.

[@dinner4chiahao]

"It wasn't even rocket science." Imagine saying that literally.

[@tekmentor]

@Lex Fridman let us know how we can help to support your Podcast.

[@safekidda46]

If you listen to the start of a full episode, he lists all the ways he'd like support. 👍

[@cobrajitsudojo]

WOW @18:00 "99% of your thought process is protecting your self-conception". That is incredibly deep. To strip all your preconceptions, all the layers of what you believe to be true and find the essence, the initial point of truth.

[@jonathanrocha779]

Thanks for the time stamp

[@marygrace3510]

Lex, the facial expressions are priceless 🦋

[@tk2x]

I love returning the fundamentals, first principles, and asking whether there's a better way. We are in a moment of true advancement and it's exciting. "Historical first video of two robots conversing without supervision" -- I laughed so hard I had to pause the video twice to continue laughing. Followed up with some comments in TMC FSD forum.

[@dr.zoidberg8666]

"Progress disappoints in the short run, surprises in the long run" -- I think this is probably exactly right regarding autonomous driving. Innovations compound on each other, so solutions tend to accelerate when they're being developed. A great past example is the human genome project. It took them 7 years to get roughly 1% of the genome decoded. 7 years after that, they were 100% finished. My guess is car autonomy will go in that sort of pattern.

[@gradoisx2348]

To save another driver, pedestrian, or multiple casualties.... or save the driver. Calculate that.

[@vladomie]

It's fun to watch Lex struggling with a paradigm shift. ...later he will be heard to say "well of course, if you're going to do it that way" 😀

[@bikesqump]

love his quote-- progress disappoints in the short run, surprises in the long run!

[@honumoorea873]

I find this pretty dumb... Progress do not disappoint... Never. So... Small progress can disappoint people that want too much too fast.. Then of course those will be perhaps surprised in the long run... Smart people are never disappointed in progress... No way... Sorry to say.

[@anthonysmithtube]

The Jordan Peterson of microprocessors. Great Interview.

[@dinbach488]

16:45 - can someone explain what he says here? that everything we do there's a 'local maximum'?

[@TheHellogs4444]

No matter what you do, it's the best you could do given your circumstances and memory at the time. If you born a few years later and read a few different articles the result would be different (better, usually, hence the local maximum as opposed to a global maximum. In a world of changing tech there's no global max yet, for anything). Or you could become a yogi and learn to decouple your memory and rebuild from pure intelligence, like elon does. You still have to do that constantly to make sure you're not outdated or stuck in your memory/experience

[@TheHellogs4444]

@@hoxhabunker8407 I mean that's literally what he says. You only need to take what you understand from what I said, if relating it to yoga doesn't make sense, you'll probably understand it from a different perspective that's present in that comment

[@stranger8105]

"Im not mocking you, I'm intrigued by your anthropology"

[@jnauttube]

A friend of mine was on an airplane talking to a guy who was in the self-driving car industry. They got to talking and my friend asked this person where their test track was. he said Las Vegas. My friend asked how their cars did in the snow. The guy laughed and said, "There's no snow in Las Vegas". My friend responded, "So there's no possibility of any of your eventual customers taking one of these up to Tahoe". The guy was completely stumped by this question.

[@rawhideslide]

Lex, best interview ever, on many levels and in many areas. You said “systems that involve human behavior are more complicated than we give them credit for ” During the interview the light came on for me illuminating the ways that is right and that is wrong. Humans are complex,.. beyond this generation’s ability to understand let alone predict. Defensive driving espouses anticipating other drivers behaviors, not to precalculate possible reactions to the probability matrix of other humans, but this is a tool to focus the human mind on the task of intently watching and reacting. But that is the strength of computers constant vigilance, accuracy and incredible speed. The solution for autonomous driving will be done by the person that can keep this a simple problem of vision, object identification and ballistics (BTW when I ponder that sentence, I do not see how lidar helps, but that is another topic for another day)

[@LoanwordEggcorn]

Since it uses light photons, laser is subject to the same obscuration problems as cameras: fog, rain, dark, etc. If you mean radar, it can add ground truth distance measurements that penetrate dark, fog, some rain, etc.

[@AngelHernandezC]

Some deep ideas going on here. Amazing.

[@colinburgess1539]

How did the crumb that fell from Jim beard at 8:86 disappear at 12:56? he didn't look at his sweater during the whole interview...

[@stevefink6000]

Jim Keller seems too confident in his assessments in speaks in absolutes. Kudos to Lex for challenging him on these.

[@michaeldautel7568]

Steve Fink Lex seems too married to his own assumptions. I thought Jim was spot on.

[@sub-urbanpastorhomesteadin2979]

This is one of the most funny videos I have ever seen in a nerdly like way

[@DanielHettenbach1]

Lex, read Dr. Hubert Dreyfus or Dr. Mark Wrathall. Dreyfus wrote a paper on developing skills understanding and mastery.

[@DanielHettenbach1]

I think a conversation with Dr. Wrathall would be very productive. A.I. will achieve consciousness. It will be through Tesla's Dojo.

[@mpsoxygen]

I would love to see Lex push back more on the subject of how hard solving the driving problem is. He is always polite to his interviewees, but I think it makes for a less engaging conversation because he holds back on his knowledge about autonomous driving so he won't contradict the guest, but it would be nice to see him lay on some knowledge and problems on the guest.

[@vandysfam]

Given the advancements in video machine learning, I wonder if Lex has changed his tune on FSD reaching level 5

[@suchdevelopments]

Watching via LinkedIn, extended version

[@allanharper9001]

Absolutely fascinating I am building my own DIY EV, using the brains and determination of the people you are listen to now. I agree with every thing they say. Hopefully one day down the track its not just crazy idea that people can truely trust the automatisation of their own vehicles.