Jim Rose on the threat the Greens' wealth tax poses to NZ

Sean Plunket talks to Jim Rose from the New Zealand Taxpayers' Union about the threat the Greens' wealth tax poses to NZ
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[@itsjustweard2328]

I don't think I've ever seen the greens actually have a clue at anything

[@cyrillawless]

They tell you to save and invest for your old age and then steal your savings by taxing you into oblivion.

[@Marius_vanderLubbe]

Oh dear - resisting arrest. You can safely bet there's alcohol involved in that.

[@Anonymouse405]

Alcohol is for losers and Kiri Allen 🥂✊🏼🥴🍾

[@cameronlabone6050]

What if you're arrested for resisting arrest? Don't have to be drunk to find that stupid or the how longs a piece of string "assaulting a police officers" some of them are to whimpy to be able to dish out those charges sad to say. Body cameras would sort that piece of string out.

[@jasperhorace7147]

Seeing the dopey greens playing very tough is going to be interesting. The only allies they have are the crazies in TPM and liebour.

[@MG-fr3tn]

Chemistry is a bitch.

[@JacobSucksAtCode]

The greens are so financially illiterate. A wealth tax is literally the #1 way to de-incentivise ambition in NZ.

[@stevejmag55]

Financial Imbeciles

[@MG-fr3tn]

What does the current tax system encourage.

[@Pallarenda]

Just wish Shaun wouldn’t continually cut in and talk over people while they are answering the previous question…rude and frustrating ☹️

[@ericschin328]

It's a problem with all "educated journalists"

[@teamatheavenscent1863]

Tax on unrealised gains how stupid, sums up the greens well living in la la land

[@robertvanruyssevelt7159]

Not stupid that's how capitalism works - gains are seldom realised but rolled into bigger and bigger fortunes. The rich have ways of extracting the wherewithal to sustain their opulent lifestyles.

[@TheMarathonomahos]

I'm over 65, and fit into the wealth tax criteria. Myself and my business partners still own a few NZ companies, and we are watching this very carefully.

[@myresponsesarelimited7895]

Go then🤷‍♂️ ...someone else will be willing to take over the profits you currently receive.

[@junk_rig_sailor1698]

If you have more than $5M then you should be hammered with tax.

[@myresponsesarelimited7895]

@@junk_rig_sailor1698 Fkn A ...this guy might not have 5m but I bet he's not already struggling to put food on the table for his kids, it's his worker's that are at the coal face, treading water without a life jacket in the sea of financial security, there's a storm coming, and it's big enough to roll his launch, if he's just a millionaire, he'll likely end up in the drink drowning alongside us. So glad to have grown up poor and needing hunter gathering skills, got a feeling I'll need to rely on them again at some point.

[@Cha4k]

​@@myresponsesarelimited7895 Why don't you create your own business instead of trying to take over someone else's?

[@myresponsesarelimited7895]

@@Cha4k you have to have money to make money, and I do not have that kind of disposable income, and neither do you, or you'd be saying- yeah get then! 😆 It's not like anybody can just jump in and take over so don't be ridiculous. But if you think everyone is as poor as you and I, and that him picking up his ball and going somewhere else will create an unfillable void, then you are dreaming, economic opportunities don't just sit there untapped because the last person who took advantage of it- packed a sad and took off🤦‍♂️ I get that you too are the proverbial embarrassed millionaire- but I'll never for the life of me understand why you would argue for these people unless you truly thought you could be him.

[@paton57]

What a great disincentive to start or own a business, what a great incentive to invest overseas, Labour, Greens and Maori parties haven't a financial or business brain among any of them, NZ is all about them and not the NZ people

[@Anonymouse405]

...oy vey, useful idiots!

[@mvb88]

It's the left wanting us to be dependent on the government and stay poor. A case of "how dear you try improve yourself and create wealth for your family"

[@andreatodd3095]

Yes agree

[@Cha4k]

"Disincentive to start or own a business" Probably the point. Less competition makes it easier for them to consolidate their wealth and control.

[@hegzneptune7327]

All nz people or just the upper class?

[@andreatodd3095]

If there are wealthy people in this country the majority of those do a lot for charity, donations, etc, they do this willingly, however if they are taxed on their wealth it may be the wealthy will say its been taken from them in tax so the donations could cease to be gifted. I don't think the greens appreciate how much is donated by business If anyone deserves extra money it's all the volunteers that help to keep some services going, tax wealth, the wealth will go off shore and the country will inward spiral. It is an envy tax imo, the failure by greens to see how wealth grows a country and is a positive thing is an indication not to back them.

[@mvb88]

Will also force a few to take their money to a different country that won't punish them for been successful

[@robertvanruyssevelt7159]

What a moron! "If there are wealthy people in this country"...if you don't know that why are you writing? Where is your evidence that the majority of them "do a lot for charity"? Yes some do, some do not. The amounts of extra tax being talked about are miniscule in relation to their wealth. They are not going to sell their properties and go overseas. There are wealth taxes of one sort or another everywhere. With a few exceptions most of the uber rich start with the millions their families have accumulated over the generations. Do you think someone with 5 billion dollars works a thousand times harder that someone with $500,000? No, They may or may not work as hard or harder but the bulk of their wealth comes from accumulated riches and a knowledge of how to work the system. There is no proposal to take away their wealth...only to make a tiny increase in their contribution to schools, hospitals, roads etc etc.

[@myresponsesarelimited7895]

@@mvb88 but can they take the investment opportunity with them?...

[@myresponsesarelimited7895]

As for this charity bs- they may make donations in the thousands, but they make profits in the millions, bill Gates makes donations in the millions while he does harm in the billions, there are such good hearted philanthropists but they're unicorns in their tax brackets, my favourite is jeff bozos ex Mrs, she gave away A LOT!!! of money

[@mvb88]

@myresponsesarelimited7895 depends on what they have invested in. Sometimes. No they can't.

[@fairpolicycommentary]

Everything is well said! Congrats! Just two additional thoughts on this: 1) assets and the elements of wealth are funded by incomes that were taxed already in the past. Because of the wealth tax is imposed on the former savings, it actually retroactively increases the former income taxes, year by year all over again and again. The retroactive aspect might have human right ramifications as well, where retroactive punishment is banned. In spirit, the wealth tax is as such. 2) it is quite sad that the main issue is the taxation in the election. Instead, we need ideas of effective state services. Those are funded by taxes. Talking only about taxes shows how empty all parties' programmes are. And, what services is the wealth tax connected to? No one knows... 😅

[@kungfutzu3779]

i don't think it shows how empty party programmes are. i think it shows how willing the media are to hide away the real issues. for example the thereapeutic products act - who's talking about that? not the platform

[@micah1754]

If wealth has accumulated over time either by capital gains or compounding interest/growth that isn't funded by income that has been taxed in the past. Yes the initial asset purhcase may have been, but over many generations - that is a drop in the bucket

[@kungfutzu3779]

@@micah1754 not so. you're taxed on interest. so you pay once when you earn the money, again when you bank it, & now they're proposing a third time regardless whether it's yeilding you any further value

[@fairpolicycommentary]

@micah1754 hi, actually, interests are taxed. Nevertheless, profit on trading shares is not - hence harmonising the capital gains taxes is necessary. But, if the gain is taxed, and the original savings were, why more tax on wealth?

[@kungfutzu3779]

@@fairpolicycommentary this also is not quite true. profits on share trading are taxed, & capital gains are taxed upon realization.

[@ross82]

Please remember how Helen Clark got the anti smacking law in, she got the greens to bring it to the table.

[@itsjustweard2328]

That wasn't Helen Clark that was that stupid other twit Sue Bradford .And look how well that's turned out. With all the crap now going on in this insanely mental world

[@MsHburnett]

AUSTRALIA HERE WE COME

[@mikebutler2761]

See ya😂

[@Sampford834]

A major concern to every Kiwi. Green party's financial illiteracy is a serious national threat.

[@eileencoulter6263]

Wealth income tax how about taxing religious organizations the moari eletts, and courptions connected to these organizations

[@johnburnett3942]

It's another version of the tall poppy syndrome, which runs through nz.

[@gregg7617]

Wealth tax 😂 Then you'll get rent increases , Service increases , Freight increases , Food increases , 😂🤣🤣 I wonder what ai model this one came from 😂🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@J.Smith-rc6wh]

great guest, Greens never do their homework that is why they believe in their ideas, if they did any study into their ideas they would quickly realise why their ideas are self defeating

[@user-rl5nd3ys8p]

Don't Greens have jobs?

[@eileencoulter6263]

No they they all are leeches on the tax payer

[@richardpeychers4076]

Ah no so to much free time to come up with silly ideas.

[@myresponsesarelimited7895]

Overseas- wealthy people take out loans rather than receive an income, which they manage to wiggle through their business as an overhead, ...because paying the interest on a loan is cheaper than paying income tax on a wage. The income tax on an income of zero is zero. ...do you think that happens here?

[@rossr100]

Hipkins says No Tax - As long as 'he is in charge'. So... about 2 months. Then who, then - tax

[@myresponsesarelimited7895]

Hear the trickle down economics in that?

[@drunkenarcheryclub]

There is no trickle down theory that economists refer too. It's total political spin. Found that out recently when I was studying an economic philosophy

[@myresponsesarelimited7895]

@@drunkenarcheryclubJohn Quiggin is an Australian economist, a professor at the University of Queensland. He was formerly an Australian Research Council Laureate Fellow and Federation Fellow Read his book ZOMBIE ECONOMICS

[@myresponsesarelimited7895]

@@drunkenarcheryclub could you link us took your source- id be interested in tracing it's source

[@berniefynn6623]

Talk of crypto currenvy, 1904 law says all employees to be paid in CASH. 1983 update to allow for direct debiting.

[@katymcdermott2398]

Just love how all the wealthy fight this idea. Sickens me. Give the working poor a chance. If you all have so much to charity how come most of the country are poor? Just a cheap excuse not to share.

[@ooo-vc4xl]

I don’t agree with a wealth tax as it is not taxing income. I however do agree with a comprehensive capital gains tax and a death/inheritance tax as they both tax income.

[@MG-fr3tn]

Parity,🤣🤣🤣🤣. Parity between effort time education risk and capital. No a wedge and a different generation dept machine. Make new zealand better off not Oz, not an appendage. Let the cleaver be on a par tax wise with those who bank on the rest driving tangible stuff. Incentive for what, dept to the young.

[@ericschin328]

Just tax the Iwi's and churches problem solved, no more free rides for the elite! Also government overspending should come out of the MP's penton's, business owners have to pay for our f ups imagen if the government had to pay for theirs...

[@robertvanruyssevelt7159]

What a load of bollocks. No-0ne is proposing dragging everyone to the same average. The proposed taxes, which contrary to Jim Rose's assertions are not high by international standards (NZ is a relatively lightly taxed country) and are not novel. We used to have death duties, stamp duties and other taxes. Over the years the burden has been shifted to the poor by abolishing those taxes in favour of GST. At the highest level the uber rich will not have to stint on their caviar or make any other sacrifices to survive. It seems to be not the rich who make these stupid claims, because they know better, but the wannabe millionaires. The argument that we should be grateful that they provide jobs is ridiculous. Firstly because almost two thirds of their investments are in property (including rental housing) and because if they do employ workers they should be grateful that lots of people are toiling to make them rich.

[@baza0]

From the intro it was clear that Sean hadn't done any prep. The comments on the stuff articles seem more insightful.

[@myresponsesarelimited7895]

🫵👃👈 👏👏👏

[@adiudicium]

NZ is not a lightly taxed country. We pay personal taxes, are taxed on all income eg interest paid by the bank and significantly GST is on all goods and services at 15% rather than lower rates on only some goods as is done in other countries. Then there are ACC levies, fuel taxes and RUC and a whole range of other taxes and levies including EQC and fire levies as well as local body rates and water charges. People also pay a range of charges eg to get a passport or register a car and part charges for visiting the GP etc (which all have GST attached). Company tax is one of the highest at 28%, trust tax is now 39% as is the top rate of income tax despite the lower rates of personal tax supposedly being set so that people didn't pay lots more tax with GST at 15%. Just a few years ago people were still moaning about the rise of GST from 12.5% (set by Labour) to 15% but they've forgotten that it seems with the idea of other people paying more tax even if it stuffs ability to invest for the future or go into business. Most people would lose at least half what they earn on taxes of various sorts and some people lose most of their earnings once they hit that top rate. The problem is most people think they won't cop it, it will be that other guy but at the moment fiscal drift means the government is collecting ever more tax while people's spending power is eroded by inflation which they caused by printing money.

[@katymcdermott2398]

@@baza0i

[@seawanderer8371]

" In New Zealand the wealthiest tenth own one-quarter of the country's assets, while the poorest half of the country has just 2 per cent. (Rashbrooke, 2021, p. 52.) That leaves many people in poverty, lacking the resources they need to participate in society and follow their dreams."

[@andreatodd3095]

Thats the way its been for a very very long time. World wide. Just depends what you want from life, no one owes you anything.

[@seawanderer8371]

@@andreatodd3095 The government is supposed to represent all NZers and has a duty to correct huge wealth inqualities for the good of society. But current governments are captured by special interests such as the FIRE sector. Most of this wealth is unearned through asset speculation.

[@andreatodd3095]

There should be help where it's needed from taxes to assist with a welfare system that we already have. But in an open state where you have potential to create wealth from legal enterprise you ARE sharing that wealth through tax. How the gvt manages or missmanages that tax is down to them, obviously ..... even they aren't applying it where it needs to go.

[@colincameron5219]

Dreams ain't free. It's could work. I didn't inherit any money my family didn't help me I left school and home at 15 no qualifications. Just a strong work ethic. I don't smoke don't drink didn't breed with every woman I met. Did my 45 hrs a week plus other jobs at night or weekends. And I ain't a boomer there is so much opportunity out there way more than 30 years ago

[@andreatodd3095]

@@colincameron5219 congratulations, you see the potential that many others don't, setting yourself on a path to success. Self made people play a big part in keeping this country afloat.

[@hegzneptune7327]

It would be interesting to see who this wealth tax is aimed at... Large corporations that pay little to no tax? Or jhon smith the self employed bulider? Ill look into it more but im sure its the former... But i love how you framed it as targeting the working classes...scare tactics id call that. Or thats how it seems to me. If anybody should be taxed more its the elite classes, upper classes corporations etc...not small business owners or sole traders like myself.

[@parati1309]

Shouldn't have poor people in NZ. No need for it. Tax needs to be reviewed. If people on a million plus want the privilege of living here then they need to pay for it. They're lucky to live in NZ.

[@dave24-73]

Tax laws do need to be looked at as the top people don’t pay tax in the same way, and often avoid taxes. The law allows this, so they aren’t doing anything illegal, but it also means they can keep growing their wealth. The argument that the small amount of tax they do pay contributes more to the pool is a false view, because if for example the tax rate was 30% and the rich only pay 10% not only are we losing 20% but if everyone else only paid 10% it would all fall over. The main issue is they are going after capital gains, which can still be hidden in companies and trusts by the rich, but will impact people getting ahead. It might be better that they add capital tax if you have say more that three properties as anything above this is more likely to be a rental business vs taxing every home owner more.

[@Pavanrikki]

Rich aren't paying 10% on the income, they're paying the correct amount on the actual income. Asset is not income unless materialised. Wealth tax is literally telling, you have assets, I'll tax whether you've materialised or not

[@dave24-73]

@@Pavanrikki I would argue they are hiding potential tax through assets, which means they aren’t paying what they could be paying. People like Bill Gates have openly admitted this. As I said they aren’t doing anything wrong, but the tax laws do need to be changed.

[@adiudicium]

That's not true, and people are allowed to minimise the tax they pay using legal means. Like claiming back a donation tax credit. Tax evasion is a whole different thing. Rich people pay the same rates as everyone else, they can't avoid personal, trust or business tax and not anything on investments as they even take tax at source eg when interest is paid. They had to use some creative accounting and assess on taxes that don't exist and unrealised gains to say they paid less than everyone else. Taxing more won't help, they'll just pack up and leave for greener pastures if they kill off the ability to make and grow investments and make a profit off them.

[@dave24-73]

@@adiudicium let them leave, we have enough greed in the world. We simply need to revisit tax laws, to stop money going offshore where no one in NZ benefits other than a Slave wage. There are levels of creating accounting and many are on the edge of evasion, and many get caught out.

[@dave24-73]

@@adiudicium there are many people who run companies at a loss to avoid tax, and simply pretend they are trying to make a profit. If you claim a loss in your tax return, you can carry it forward to lower your income in the next tax year - and therefore reduce your tax bill.

[@radumi5394]

Is it over taxing and forcing extra compliance costs price out "local economy" out of the economy? Same as automating ourselves out of jobs and... let's also... de-carbonize ourselves out of life - why not just closing the gap in the Carbon cycle like it should be? But let's "fix Gender mental constructs" first :)

[@optimumperformance]

10% flat income tax. No wealth tax. No capital gains tax, etc.

[@hegzneptune7327]

So let me get this straight? As I've just started tuning into "the platform" This is a right wing political show masquerading as central? Or no?

[@lowtech_1]

Poor dont pay tax, you mean net tax. Everyone pays gst and fuel tax even tourists. *new car buyers of EV/tesla dont towards roads. Even though they probably also benefit most.

[@jasperhorace7147]

Who do you think pays the most GST? It isn’t the poor.

[@Cha4k]

How about we stop taxing people all together and then they use those savings to fund their own health care, housing, food etc.

[@adsdft585]

The host fails to reflect that if you have high disposable , you are likely to be able to save and so likely to increase wealth.

[@mikebutler2761]

Delusional response, if there was a fair taxation system we may not need any domestic charity and if we do then we can set aside the wealth tax to ensure all nNZer's are fed clothed and housed