Jim Ross shoots on Shawn Michaels vs Vader

[@DJDoubleCee]

Man, Shawn Michaels was such a jerk to Vader when he legitimately kicked him in the head. I don’t know how Vader was able to refrain from legitimately punching him in the face.

[@lookoutside9083]

Aww poor vader. The same guy who was stiff his whole career to his opponents to the point where it was bullish. The only time someone is stiff with him all of his fanboys or just plain bret hart fanboys that shit on Shawn start crying about it.

[@kevinmoore5206]

@Marty McK this! 100%

[@kingjay239]

@Marty McK yet, he never got anyone hurt

[@kingjay239]

@@lookoutside9083 I agree, if I was HBK, and I knew I was doing an amazing job and my co worker sucks ass, then I’d be pissed too.

[@kamfisher1714]

@Old Man What a load of BS

[@commentaccount2750]

You can tell JR has a lot of affection for Vader.

[@fmthebaron]

That's disgusting that Vader never washed his gear. There's no defending that especially when even his wife agreed.

[@EGarrett01]

This podcast is 10 million times better than Bruce Prichard or Eric Bischoff's, because JR actually doesn't just try to justify every stupid booking decision that they talk about.

[@AfterNothingsEnd]

Totally

[@pinroshan020]

Yes but the problem is jr's podcast has too many ads.

[@bigrigjoe5130]

Difference between whether you want a job at WWE again or not XD You'll hear Jim Cornette and Bret Hart do the same thing. Like them or not they are honest about what they think. Bischoff and Prichard filter everything through "I don't want the office to be mad"

[@The_Insanity_Plex]

Would be even better without this charisma vacuum host that weighs down anything he's around. Even that Hannibal guy would be more entertaining and appealing. Why is this Conrad guy involved in things? Is he just some rich dude that people in the business enjoy milking, or what? He's horrible!

[@jalenmilliner1209]

When I first watched this match between Shawn Michaels and Vader at Summer Slam 1996 I can tell that Shawn was very resilient in taking the competition to Vader. Vader was definitely a worthy contender to the WWF championship. I believe Vader would've had a great run with main title at this time.

[@vampirascoffin870]

a good 5 months he could have had! but gotta love hbks ego

[@CrooklynKnight]

They really didn't give Vader a fair shake in WWF. His two best highlights was when he did that Vader Bomb to Gorilla Monsoon, and that Raw Magazine cover from In Your House when he got bloodied up in the fatal four way. JR was right, they didn't set the table up properly for him at all.

[@attiepollard7847]

A problem with Vader in my and many others opinion was Vader was too late for WWE in 1996. Vader would have worked well in WWE say 1992 all the way to 1994 if he wasn't in WCW. When 1996 came up wrestling as a whole started to change and he started to phase out with it. I really could not see him as world champion during this time in 1996

[@antology7]

@@attiepollard7847 Yeah true, I never thought of that. He was still wrestling well and looked intimating enough. Maybe he needed an updated gimmick for the attitude era. Something more ruggered looking to get with the times.

[@jamesbarnes7045]

Vader was not good at all he did not sell his act very well he was boring and just straight garbage wrestling could have done just fine without him

[@Dakatari]

The late Leon Vader White was the true star of this match but of course Shawn Michaels and his backstage politics ruined this again

[@lookoutside9083]

Shawn was a top 3 wrestler in the world.

[@paulbenoit6076]

Vader should have broke Shawn in half during that match.

[@VideoHostSite]

Why? Because you're an idiot?

[@arcaderacer586]

What time is it???? It’s VADER TIME!!!!!

[@countof3everybodyOD]

I’m only a quarter of the way in but good on JR for telling it true!

[@almightyone1181]

Vince McMahon reminding himself of Shawn Michaels made me burst out laughing

[@belinda8780]

I watched the match. It was so good. I didn't realize what Shawn did during the match. I watched again and saw it. Then I heard he made Vader cry after the match probably because he was afraid for his job because Shawn had so much power.

[@yoholmes273]

When you are the bosses gay boyfriend, then yes, you have a lot of "stroke".

[@brandocalrissian3294]

Vader should have been better at his job. Most of the roster complained about him, not just shawn.

[@mrbdd3059]

I have seen Bret Hart interviews as well and he says the same thing Vader was to stiff and did not like working with him

[@InvertedFreeSolo]

He was notoriously stiff, and received a great deal of receipts in his career.

[@brokefolkfabrication]

Leon shouldve won gold at least once

[@attiepollard7847]

Maybe if he was in WWE in 92 to 94 but not in 96.

[@danielburger1775]

Why not 1996?

[@attiepollard7847]

@@danielburger1775 Vader was getting passed his prime, politics with hbk and changing times in pro wrestling with fans who no longer liked the cartoon character wrestling of the past. Plus if the complaining was correct by HBK that Vader was stiff the Vader should have adopted to the WWE way when it comes to safety and the wrestlers.

[@danielburger1775]

@@attiepollard7847 Vader was essentially the same age as Bret Hart. And Vader was not a cartoon character. If they had let Vader be even 0.5 Vader, it would have been for more effective. Then, when the Attitude Era started, you would have a monster heel who Mr McMahon could have set on Stone Cold.

[@attiepollard7847]

@@danielburger1775 come on you got to do the comparison in the summer and fall of 96. Hogan & Vader as champ? It just doesn't look right we got WCW doing semi-realistic shows and we got WWE doing cartoonish shows. That's not bringing me in money.

[@LouSkunt77]

JR gets a bit off topic on these shows but he calls it as he sees it.

[@kevindouglas5333]

Awww Shawn pouting cause Vader was too rough with him

[@patrickderocco296]

no cause Vader wasn't that good

[@Darren-su2gm]

No it's because Vader's gear and mask were stinky.

[@undertakerfanz8974]

Vader didn't want to wash his mask and ring gear

[@Emporkommling]

Basically overweight Kane in that respect

[@theredraven]

@@Emporkommling Vader was light years ahead of Kane in ability.

[@brandocalrissian3294]

So gross.

[@StealthMarmot_]

I agree with Jim that Shawn was being a primadonna temper tantrum baby, and that he was going through substance abuse and overall a nightmare for the locker room in general... But Shawn was by no means the only guy who hated working with Vader. Bret Hart, who you cannot deny was an absolute professional, also hated working with Vader because of the stiff shots and smelly gear. In fact Bret talked about the main reason he was willing to go heel in 97 was because he liked the list of people he would work with as a heel, and the top of the list as a face was Vader. And seeing the name Vader at the top he was like "You talked me into it." Vader was a great athlete, hell of a worker, but if in 1997 Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart can agree that something you are doing is a problem, you better fix it because they were not going to agree on too much.

[@KClouisville]

I think anyone who watched him and is honest would agree that Vader could be too stiff and sometimes too cavalier with not being safe. However, the issue with Shawn doing what he did. Shawn had already complained to Vince about not wanting to get stiff shots and to be hurt by Vader ahead of the match....so Vader is actually working pretty softly with him as far as he went. And that's the thing about the kick to the head.....it wasn't Shawn giving him a receipt.....it was Shawn pitching a hissy fit about a botched spot. You don't kick someone in the face/head over a spot that didn't go right.....in the old days Vader would have been well within his rights to pummel the hell out of Michaels immediately after that.....but Michaels was the WWE version of a "made man" at that point.

[@soulofanerd9364]

I would never be able to book a match where Shawn Michaels beats Vader, unless there is some kind of mishap from Cornette trying to interfere or some kind of complete self inflicted damage to Vader. A clean or semi clean pin from Michaels on Vader??? Nah.... I've never watched this match and probably never will, especially after seeing the "MOVE!" clip several times online, but hey these guys say it's a good one and I do respect JR.

[@VaughnJogVlog]

“Rumor and innuendo” take a shot.

[@QuentinDude]

Vader should of won the summer slam match and then lost the title to Sid at Surivor Series setting up Sid/MIchaels at the rumble. They could of then done Vader/HBK again at mania 13

[@richie9308]

I agree with most of it. But undertaker was the right call to win the belt at WM 13 and should’ve won at the royal rumble. He had so much momentum going into 1997 after his feud with Mankind and so it made sense for him to win the belt. I would’ve still do the final four but with Hart, Vader, Austin and Sid for the belt with the winner facing Taker. Have Bret win but instead of sid winning the belt the next night have Vader win and face Taker at WM 13 and Sid fight Mankind at WM 13.

[@kevinmoore5206]

So Meltzer was huge a Pat Patterson fan huh?...🤣🤣🤣 It all makes sense now.

[@joshuamoss1660]

Gayyy

[@diontenelson1116]

He could of beat his asss for that Shawn was being extra like a typical Leo

[@omegamitch]

Just like Randy orton to Koffi !!! "stupid , stupid" said Randy.

[@mmurph617]

Vader should have beat the brakes out of Shawn Michaels.

[@joshuamoss1660]

No he should have just plopped on top of him and squashed his ass.

[@L_Train]

"He called the weed, DOPE!"

[@SuperAlex2504]

I like JR but he is being very dishonest. Not only did Leon White have bad hygiene but it was a known fact that Vader was one of the stiffest guys in the history of Wrestling. Even Brian Blair said Vader was the stiffest guy he ever worked with. Anybody who blames Shawn for not wanting to work Vader should ask themselves the following question. Would they be okay working with a guy who doesn't know how to throw punches that look real but do not connect ?. JR knows Shawn had to deal with this 5 days a week. Say what you want about Shawn but he was one of the safest guys to work with even when he was doing drugs. Also JR said in another interview that there was never a plan to put the belt on Vader. But regardless, as the number 1 guy Michaels had every right to pick a safe opponent to work with every night. To pretend this was personal or only because Leon White was not very hygienic is a lie. He was stiff.... Rest in peace.

[@alecaquino4306]

Shawn (and Vince) really did Vader dirty. He deserved much better treatment than what was delivered.

[@Rschr101]

Shawn never drew a dime, business was never better in those 4 years he was gone from 98 to 2002. He comes back and suddenly things go down the tubes. Not saying it was his fault, that was Vince giving the creative team to Stephanie and Hunter...but Shawn never raised a rating point. Ever.

[@messyfilms6325]

Wrestling goes through phases, that mid 90s time was awful and unwatchable. Shawn was the only thing people came to watch during that era. Shawn just so happened to get hurt when other people stepped up and writing got a lot better. Correlation does not equal causation.

[@bbb4228]

I don’t know how anybody can be a fan of Shawn Michaels

[@dareason7581]

So that is why Vader vs Undertaker at 97 RR happened instead.

[@BrianJamesShanley]

Vader should’ve just shot and beat the shit out of him in the middle of the ring. He’d have gotten fired, but it would’ve been worth it.

[@attiepollard7847]

No it would have not been worth it

[@desisdosis473]

Vader was a stiff and at times completely unprofessional loudmouth most wrestlers didnt like to work with.

[@BulletBill-yb3ti]

Prime Vader vs Brock Lesnar. The Beast vs the Mastadon. Let them work stiff. Would have been a great match.

[@blakejarvis5302]

yeah but this led to sid getting his push and his best run of his career and sid was super over during that run

[@blakejarvis5302]

@What a disater! Ladies and guntlemen not sure what you mean

[@darnellmajor9016]

Vader should've been a much bigger star than Michaels stiff or not...........

[@mr10tomidnight]

It was so sad that Vader wasn't even allowed to win the European title from D Low Brown.

[@MajikATX]

I saw that match yesterday... Dam Shawn kicked the stuff outta him.

[@nicholashurst780]

Ozium is the shit JR. Lemme tell you ser I have put a joint out as I was getting pulled over and sprayed that stuff and it made me nose dead and made the cop nose deaf enough to not notice it

[@brianthomas3451]

Vader should have thrown a piece of paper at Shawn, he would have walked out saying “there goes your main event” and win the belt via forfeit

[@270687carl]

Shawn michaels was like a spoilt bratt in a candy shop - he exposed the business blatently during that match anyone else would of been crucified even during this time in the 90s but he was WWFs rocket boy at the time and vinces price tag wannabe ... tbh i always thought he was overrated sure he could work no question but i couldn't get really into his matches.

[@TheHannibalTV]

Vader could have been used a lot better in WWE

[@Eric-ew8jt]

See good ole JR tells it the way it is, he doesn’t carry anyones water. Unlike MR I wasn’t there

[@tun-tunninc.6492]

I need to get some febreeze. 😊😊

[@conniecarroll7222]

Part of the problem not mentioned is Vader himself. I don't recall the year or the match on Raw but Vader had a tag team Title match nope can't remember his partner but they lost. At the end of the match Vader had to be restrained I believe is a good word, you could hear him yelling about what do you mean we are not the Champions? Not the exact words but close enough. I was shocked at the fit he was throwing. Everyone talks about his match with Shawn I thought this was worse due to you knew for sure something was wrong. Shawn admitted he lost his temper, don't know if he apologized to Vader or not. Shawn said he liked him, Vader claimed later in KZbin interview that he was supposed to win that night which is wrong. Of Cornette never got along with HBK.

[@richardstange5939]

I’ve lost so much respect for Shawn Michaels.

[@brookesfriend8359]

We're ALL works in progress 🐱. I was a Dick 2 in my youth. But I love everyone NOW. Even SM

[@richardstange5939]

@@brookesfriend8359 that is no excuse. He wasn’t in middle school, he was a grown man. Just because he found god doesn’t excuse what he did to people. Unfortunately he can’t even apologize to Vader now if he wanted to.

[@vinylbuff1515]

@@richardstange5939 He was like 30 which is old enough to not be a dickhead

[@desisdosis473]

@@richardstange5939 Vader said in an interview that he understands that Shawn got mad at him for messing up the spot. They were still in good terms later on.

[@kyledamron]

I really liked HBK vs Sid and damn Sid was over

[@werleysworld8974]

I think what it is for me is the tantrum and intentionally going off script to kick his fellow worker in the head for real. This is just one of soooo many of Shawn’s moments of nauseating unprofessionalism. Yet he remained Vince’s boy no matter what. Had great entrance music and a sweet finisher, but his look was always meh, and I couldn’t stand his voice anytime he opened his mouth. The word “overrated” comes to mind when I think of Shawn Michaels🤷‍♂️

[@attiepollard7847]

But looking back at SummerSlam 1996 why the hell did anyone want Shawn Michaels to drop the belt to Vader? You do not drop the current world championship built to another opponent at your biggest summer pay-per-view.

[@danielburger1775]

To build for the rematch. Plus, Michaels wasn't exactly a big draw.

[@attiepollard7847]

@@danielburger1775 and Vader wasn't drawing either. Did people really think that during the earlier stages of the Monday night wars that a champion Vader would have been a good alternative to a champion Hogan with the NWO? Hell no. So you might as well stick with Shawn Michaels until survivor series.

[@danielburger1775]

@@attiepollard7847 But Vader hadn't had the chance to draw as champion. Michaels had already been shown to be a no-draw. Plus, Vader wasn't being used properly with Michaels. Vader was completely misused in the WWF.

[@attiepollard7847]

@@danielburger1775 do the comparisons to Vader and Hogan in 1996 and ask yourself do you really believe he would have drew as a champion if he would have became champion in '96? Come on man.

[@danielburger1775]

@@attiepollard7847 He wouldn't have drawn as well as nWo Hogan. But he would have drawn better than Michaels was drawing.

[@bhillis99]

Oh well. Putting someone on speaker phone without telling the person is unprofessional. If they say wow thing and someone else hears, then that’s on you.

[@83reggieT]

I love now that jr doesnt work for wwe he doesnt have to pull punches.

[@craigwilson3532]

With the rules the way they are the champ could always get himself counted out or DQed n keep the belt

[@MrDjklj73]

Jim Ross was being nice. Vader probably didn't bathe before getting in the ring😂😂

[@VideoHostSite]

It's 2023. Do we really have to use stupid phrases like "shoot" on wrestling podcasts? Show me one single wrestling podcast that's done "in kayfabe". Also, is JR really saying that Vader should have legitimately hurt Shawn Michaels? I don't want to say anything bad about JR, but seriously, that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Vader was never going to be anything other than a tubby jobber in the WWE. His best years were long behind him. Shawn Michaels on the other hand literally carried the entire company during the years when WCW was destroying the WWE in the ratings. Vader was a clumsy bully who didn't care who he hurt in the ring. Shawn is a one-man Hall of Fame.

[@julianwilcox399]

Shawn was just a protected Bully Boy who would have got his as kicked by almost anyone else on the roster had it come to it

[@JohnBarron-n]

Vader was awesome in this match. Shawn was better.

[@WEK-kh8gd]

Shawn is proof great things come to bad human beings.

[@A7X062388]

he was a young dude that was lost in drugs and immaturity...He is a great human being since his second run and is a great father and man. I guess you shouldnt ever be given 2nd chances huh?

[@WEK-kh8gd]

@@A7X062388 He continually assaulted reporters, used his clout with Vince to destroy careers, which took money out of men's pockets, dropped the title instead of doing the agreed upon job for Bret Hart, and with his Sunny Days comment effected Bret's marriage. Was a general asshole to most everybody most all the time. 80% of wrestlers were fucked up on alcohol and drugs in the 90's and one stood out above all the rest (well 2 with the Warrior) as a selfish, spoiled, little crybaby. Wrestling back then was a sport for men. Badass MFers....and little crybaby Shawn. Being an addict doesn't give you a pass in life. I'm in recovery and I'd never treat people, even if I was totally fucked up, like Shawn treated people. I'm glad he's better now, but everything we do in life isn't just forgotten. It still happened.

[@WittyUsernamehere]

@@A7X062388 Being given 2nd chances is fine but that should not absolve you of any past wrongdoing. Shawn may be a "better" person now, but it is undeniable that he did a lot of bad things to a lot of people before he became a "good" person.

[@barryoshea429]

Hey thats very unfair to the dude. He has owned up to not being a good guy as a younger lad. Hes changed his life around and found god. Its not up to you to forgive him

[@InvertedFreeSolo]

Yea Shawn didn't work his ass off to become the best of all time. Good call. Clown.

[@jimfaust6342]

Shawn was a whiner back then. About Vader being too stiff.

[@EOTA564]

Shawn was definitely a diva but even Bret talks about how Vader was stiff in the ring.

[@duckhive]

love VADER

[@comfortablynumblbg]

HBK was soft

[@kazman_6899]

Why didn't they buy him an endless supply of gear? How much could his attire possibly have cost? Or buy a washing machine and dryer? Or get him to come to the show early, and get a goofer to run to the chinese laundry? How could that have been a problem in a multimillion dollar company?

[@tritchie6272]

I beleive it has always been the talents job to take care of their own gear. I haven't heard of anybody else having this problem on a regular basis.

[@kazman_6899]

@@tritchie6272 In the old days, sure. But with Vince in the money, surely it would have been run like a TV show. The actresses don't take their dresses home, or bring their own dresses. It's provided for within the budget.

[@Shawnredfield98]

Shawn is the 🐐 It is what it is.

[@yoholmes273]

HBGAY is Vinces "goat" for sure

[@Shawnredfield98]

@@yoholmes273 HBGay? What are you 5? Your favorite wrestlers say he's the goat. From Undertaker to Stone cold. But thanks for the boring, lame cliché Vince comment.

[@yoholmes273]

@@Shawnredfield98 HBGAY is what he know as during his "boy hood dream" era. That is what crowds everwhere chanted. I understand young Mark how WWE likes to rewrite history but facts are facts. Certainly not "the goat" ever in any way. But cool mark out while attempting at deflect.

[@Shawnredfield98]

@@yoholmes273 That's the best you could come up with? You can't talk shit when you just said HBGay and used the corny Vince shit. I see you glossed over all of the top guys that have said that themselves. But of course you would know better. So who's the goat to you?

[@Shawnredfield98]

@@yoholmes273 Like how you like to rewrite your comment? I grew up during that era so try again. And what does wwe "rewriting" shit have to do with individual wrestlers saying that he's the best in the ring? They were all paid to say that? Ric flair, Jericho, Austin, Undertaker etc. etc. You can have you're opinion on who you think is the goat(you still didn't answer my question) but you came at it like a 5 year old is my point.

[@dman50amm]

HBK HBK HBK

[@Majestros]

Conrad got my finances in order

[@blind-sidelocc6052]

Jim Ross talk about your current employer AEW. Dont let those EVP's silence you. You have to get over WWE bro. Conrad is Vulture just like Dave Meltzer

[@belinda8780]

Wow Jim told him about his funky clothes in front of his wife. That had to be embarrassing.

[@Rocket1377]

This match and the Hogan match are why Shawn Michaels will never be considered the greatest worker of all time. An amazing talent, but so unprofessional.

[@richardchisolm8430]

except by most people he is.

[@rickytpb2164]

he was the greatest worker but he was also a shit draw and a total prick.

[@EGarrett01]

@@richardchisolm8430 No. Ric Flair understood pro wrestling on a level far more deeply than Shawn Michaels ever did. Which is also why Flair drew money and Michaels was a failure at the box office.

[@belinda8780]

What happened in the Hogan match? And which match was that?

[@Shawnredfield98]

@@EGarrett01 Annd Ric himself said Shawn was the best so there's that.

[@marvelfan8670]

The more Vader stories I hear I wish he never came to wwe. Every single story this guy is made into a joke

[@craigwilson3532]

I know it's all staged but why don't restart every match a heel cheats lol

[@tritchie6272]

Becuase they need the heels to cheat. I heard Watts make a statement I found interesting. He said in Wrestling you need rules for heels to break.

[@Kjraider2009]

They way JR explains how Shawn has his "influence with the office" makes it sound like dude had some kind of secret relationship with Vince. Just speculation on my part ;)

[@daygon128]

With Pat Patterson definitely

[@Glupkomatun]

JR is SOB

[@theallamericannightmare4163]

Vader should of won the belt in WWE.

[@danielburger1775]

Vader was the Lashley or Lesnar of the time. Michaels was the Orange Cassidy of the time.

[@brookesfriend8359]

😳 WhaaaaaaaT

[@danielburger1775]

@@brookesfriend8359 Vader was a believable tough guy who didn't need a gimmick. Being the monster was the selling point. And, all the guys who use invisible hand grenades, wrestle small kids etc. ..they were huge Shawn Michaels fans. You can draw a direct line from HBK to all the goofy comedy wrestling, and contrived spots today.

[@joshuamoss1660]

Not really, shawn was the Darby Allen of the time and vader was the brawn strowman of the time.

[@alexmartin3143]

I really hope you’re not serious… If anybody is Shawn in AEW it’s Sammy…

[@michaelsmiley15]

OK I just watched the match Why are you not commenting Jr. About being right next to Vince while all this stuff that you don't like is going on I don't think you're objective because you're still sore because they fired you and they shouldn't have but at least you could try and be more objective This match probably did not go as planned because everything Sean and Vader worked out as professionals went out the window until cornet wanted them to go back in the ring the crowd was silent they were not screaming they were not doing anything it was a mediocre match Cornette's constant go back and finish got the crowd pumped and that's what Vince wanted that's why he refused to let Vader do anything because Vader could not draw the crowd As far as Shawn Michael's trying to drop the elbow Vader moved from is moved from his Q point and Sean couldn't drop the elbow and I think that's probably what made him so frustrated If you're a heel you're gonna take a finishing move you have to maintain your position in the ring I got a sneaking suspicion that cornets calling the match to continue was not part of the plan I think that was a little bit of improve because Vince wanted the match to be bigger more energy and it wasn't there so he was signaling cornet keep the match going I think you're making too much of that miscommunication and Vader getting kicked in the head because he was supposed to take an elbow drop and he moved out of the way you can't do that This is summer slam main event is has to be big the audience has to have a lot of energy and it's not happening because Vader is incapable Vince clearly did not like what he saw and that was the be getting for the end of Vader period Well if I'm sean Michaels and the guy I got to work with made a really big screw up at the main event at summer slam there's no way I'd wanna work with him again Can you Conrad get any other opinion besides Dave Melzer seriously

[@mexmexican8619]

Vader was a bully who deserved what he got

[@jamesbarnes7045]

Yeah Shawn Michaels was a bit of an asshole but he was an awesome entertainer Vader should have never got the push in my opinion he was absolute garbage it was no point in him even being a wrestler he was not exciting nothing about him was any good in my opinion

[@theredraven]

You've not seen any of his work in Japan have you?

[@jamesbarnes7045]

@@theredraven I'm in America I don't give a fuck about Japan

[@templeos2954]

Shawn Michaels is the 🐐

[@ysbryd9779]

Dynamite kid is the 🐐. Without him, there is no hbk