Staining and Finishing Woodsrunner with Iron Nitrate and Permalyn

[@barryscott990]

Jim you are a treasure to the muzzle loading community. And my southern mountain rifle from one of your kits is my treasure!

[@kiblerjim]

Thank you, I appreciate that!

[@TheJstanton2]

I've said it before but I really love your 4 legged shop supervisors.

[@UncleDansVintageVinyl]

And, formerly at least, his three-legged shop supervisor!

[@stephenfields6236]

Well done and very practical stock finishing video. Katherine does excellent camera work too. I appreciate her questions and comments. Seeing what the dog is doing adds interest. Thanks.

[@kiblerjim]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@FlipDahlenburg]

This is how Stradivarius used to stain HIS rifles. Absolutely beautiful!

[@Shaky_Hands_Powderworks]

This is the best thing I’ve seen all day. Appreciate the video and the commentary.

[@kiblerjim]

I'm glad to hear you enjoyed the video, thanks for watching!

[@L2FlyMN]

Curly maple is so pretty with the right finish!!!! Absolutely beautiful!!! Especially as long as you can avoid rag marks & finger smudges!

[@jkalash762]

I highly recommend to try out iron nitrate on various scraps around the shop for those watching. Not all combos are great but don't give up until after a good sanding and a coat of oil. Creates some really beautiful pieces with enough experimentation.

[@Bayan1905]

I got a knife I am making and it's got curly maple scales and I am going to try this technique when it comes to staining them, will give it a period correct look for the time.

[@ndmike]

Great video as always Jim!

[@kiblerjim]

Thank you!

[@jamessullivan1618]

Great job Jim and just in time as I'm just about to start the finish on my rifle.

[@kiblerjim]

Thanks for watching.

[@victortuten4399]

Wow, that takes a LOT of coats! I never would have guessed! I would have panicked thinking I had done something wrong! Great video!

[@DocLaw172]

But, but, But! Jim, I already finished my Woodsrunner and all this time I have been telling people to watch your videos on how to build these guns. 😯😲😅😂🤣

[@nigelkavanagh2048]

Jim sir you are the master! Have you ever made one and thought I think I will keep this one? If so do you have a personal collection you could mybe do a vid on for us? Many thanks for all your hard work and brilliant skills. Can hardly wait til next week. 👌👍

[@kiblerjim]

Thank you for the nice comment. I don't actually keep any guns for very long. I used to have an amazing fowler from the late 1600s but I sold it to fund the business.

[@patrickbelongea6896]

I know Jim says iron nitrate is only for maple, but I found that it works pretty good on my hickory ramrod too.

[@mattedwards4533]

Nice job! If I had a rifle with a stock as pretty as yours I would be afraid to shoot it. Beautiful work!

[@kiblerjim]

Thank you very much!

[@tropifiori]

This video was very helpful when I made my WR. I was nervous I was going to ruin it.

[@richstone2627]

Thank you for sharing your time and knowledge.

[@kiblerjim]

Glad it was helpful!

[@drbnewberry]

Thanks for the update! I am looking forward to getting one!

[@GoldPointForge]

Thanks! Great looking shop!

[@kiblerjim]

Our pleasure!

[@TomRiddle-ww5on]

Thank you Jim!!!

[@kiblerjim]

Thank you for watching!

[@joemolf3894]

That’s a beautiful stock almost as nice as the one I purchased from you!

[@craigleibbrand7761]

It's beautiful the way it is

[@redlemur6073]

Tips tricks and time. Im glad i was a painter😘

[@stephenhodges5162]

What grade of maple is that? When ordering is that maple, fancy maple, or the extra fancy maple?

[@trevorfitzgerald4996]

Was going to get a woods runner. Now looks like a Italian gun for me. Not that i am happy about that but thems the breaks. Maybe in the new year.

[@randiegadberry5448]

Hopefully a left hand version is in the making.

[@kiblerjim]

Someday there will be a left handed version.

[@randiegadberry5448]

@@kiblerjim 👍👍👍😎

[@556suppressor]

Hope you have an Open House this summer.

[@jesusisalive3227]

Stunning!

[@kiblerjim]

Thank you!

[@loupuleff571]

Very nice Jim !!

[@kiblerjim]

Thanks glad you enjoyed it!

[@RobertSchmitt-u7l]

For naturally dark woods like walnut, if you prefer oil finishes only, BUTTER actually darkens very well, I have tried lots of other waxes and oils, and butter will soak in and darken walnut to a very presentable satin. Expecially on the new growth walnut, the woods that are cheaper and more available, this method works very well, apply a slick and let it soak in for a week. Did actually very well.

[@kenchapman4067]

I've never heard this view before, but do you think, maybe, the original "buck skinners" leaned towards the vertically striped curly maple, or more likely for the aesthetic appeal? 09/18/24 06:00

[@johnnyholland8765]

That is not too dark. That is a classic reaction iron nitrate to the maple wood. I love a darker color in my rifles. Walnut is beautiful too. It takes just the right kind of oil for walnut. I would be very proud to own that rifle...

[@kiblerjim]

Thanks! Walnut is definitely beautiful and really changes up the look

[@donfullbright8468]

Maybe I missed this? Do you use 2 coats of iron nitrate? What does 2 coats look like? Darker in color on the finished stock?I am wanting a more redish orange? Do you think that wood like good. When I order mine can I get maybe four scrape pieces of extra fancy curley maple?

[@corneliussulla4858]

I have to try that stuff on curly birch.

[@kiblerjim]

That could work well

[@ericschulze5641]

So you use bluing solution on your wood, it keeps getting darker eventually turning black or grey looks awesome by the way

[@frank64409]

Jim, would you do this before setting a thumb plate? I have looked all over, and there needs to be more information on thumb plates.

[@kiblerjim]

Inlays would be done before staining and finishing

[@TS-nb9ko]

Jim i would love to watch you make a custom gun for yourself.i can only imagine what it would look like.:)

[@mennoburmeister1973]

Jim , do you think getting the woodsrunner carving option in addition to extra fancy maple would look good ? Or to much of a good thing ?

[@kiblerjim]

We get a lot of orders for the carving on the extra fancy maple and it looks amazing!

[@joemolf3894]

Correct me if I’m wrong that if you get iron nitrate in the inlets you can use pneumonia to neutralize it. Baking soda too but pneumonia works better with a q tip

[@erinrmyers4588]

Correcting pneumonia to ammonia I believe you meant?

[@jonathanhoffman7212]

Thank you for the video Jim. The friend of mine who got me into muzzleloading and I were discussing your comment of not getting any stain in the inlets. What happens if the gun gets wet and water gets under there? The bare wood wouldn't have any protection. Is that a concern?

[@TomSchmidt-vu2vi]

The first stain he put on the stock will corrode the metal parts if you put it in the inlets. Even on handgun grips the wood is unfinished on the surfaces touching metal.

[@kenp3385]

Do you ever neutralized the acid after heating? If so which do you use? Ammonia or baking soda?

[@kiblerjim]

we don't neutralize but you can use baking soda if you feel like it

[@davidholly3254]

Is that a fancy or xtra fancy grade maple piece of wood ? Sure looks good..

[@Bayan1905]

Jim, is there a lot of difference between Permalyn and Tru-oil when it comes to finishing the stock?

[@galenhisler396]

I'm wondering the same thing 🤠

[@ricko25234]

What, if any, is the difference between Aqua Fortis and Iron Nitrate?

[@kiblerjim]

In common language, they are referring to the same thing.

[@RonOhio]

Does the iron nitrate continue to darken over time? EDIT: Found the answer as I watched older Q&A videos. As I understand it, Kibler's Iron Nitate is less prone to darkening than some other, stronger solutions.

[@jameshall5784]

Hey Jim is the reason for not doing inlets because the wood swells???

[@kiblerjim]

The wood swells and it's not necessary. Thanks for watching

[@TomSchmidt-vu2vi]

If you were looking for a higher gloss on the stock, would you keep applying the oil?

[@kiblerjim]

Yes, more thin coats would make a higher gloss. Make sure they are thin and dry before next coat!

[@JakeHegnauer]

Gorgeous! You mention when applying the Permalyn that it came out a little darker than you might have wanted. I noticed that the oil/stain appears quite dark on the cloth. If I wanted a lighter color, would a clear oil like linseed instead of the permalyn help in that regard? Thanks.

[@kiblerjim]

Thanks! I'm not sure, but hardware store linseed oil is a bad finish and we don't recommend it. Tried and true is high quality linseed oil and is partially polymerized to help it dry as well as added rosin. Either way, I don't anticipate a big color difference

[@milansekularac6196]

What is the finish you would recomend for a revolver's grips in tiger maple? Thanks

[@TS-nb9ko]

Beautiful

[@kiblerjim]

Thank you!

[@druanubis7194]

Just wished a person could buy already assembled and stain rifle most don't have the tools or room to do such a project.

[@robgoose8126]

Muzzleloadingforum, they come up from time to time in the classifieds section

[@mennoburmeister1973]

why is the iron nitrate you use red in color , but the stuff you sell clear ?

[@kiblerjim]

For some reason we had a clear batch that worked exactly like the orange/brown batches. We tested it and it works the same.

[@mennoburmeister1973]

I think the orange/brown stuff might have some dye in it . The clear stuff I used came out more brown than what you used in the video

[@h-minus2212]

If one were to sand/burnish the stock after applying the heat gun, would it affect the lighter stained areas of the stock and increase the dark/light contrast? Additionally, thank you for suggesting that there are multiple ways to finish a stock - my wife and I used a mixture of tung oil and spar urethane (from Workshop Companion's KZbin channel) and are very happy with the results. You make great firearms.

[@kiblerjim]

It's the opposite. It seals off the grain and you don't have as much variation in the penetration of the oil. It's best to do after getting a good coat of oil

[@donfullbright8468]

Nice color

[@practicalcivilguy6604]

That turned out beautifully Jim! Quick question. I’ve been having trouble deciding between a walnut or maple stock… I’ve been looking, but cannot find any info on what to use for stain on a walnut stock. What do you recommend for a beginner who loves the historical, mechanical, and beautiful aspects of these pieces?

[@Snap4590]

Not Jim, but... If the wood is brown with no light sapwood areas, just use finish - oil, Permalyn, etc. There is no need to stain walnut unless you want to try and change the color.

[@kiblerjim]

Agree with this!

[@kiblerjim]

Thanks for the message. I probably recommend maple for a beginner. It looks nice and is historically correct. Walnut can just be finished with oil and the color can be warmed up or adjusted with aniline dye such as trans-tint if you would like.

[@practicalcivilguy6604]

Awesome! Thanks for the information. Snap and Jim! This explains why I was unable to find a proper stain for walnut. 😂 Jim, this really helps cement my choice. Now I just need to finish saving my pennies 😊

[@kenfochtman8698]

Why was the nose cap left on and other parts taken off? Could the nose cap be taken off for this part?

[@kiblerjim]

In order to properly finish the nosecap, its best to leave it on. It is peened attached to the stock

[@robertwiggins4921]

There are a lot on benefits to modern stock finishes containing polymers and rubber extracts but somehow I can't bring myself to using them on a period style piece. I guess I like the traditional approach for these. Best Regards

[@kiblerjim]

thanks for watching!

[@KeithMoore-zn1ob]

On your website, what category would this stock fit in?

[@robgoose8126]

Looks like my extra fancy

[@andrewlloyd2604]

Maybe some color in the Permalyn ? Thanks

[@kiblerjim]

Jim might have added some dye to the Permalyn

[@andrewlloyd2604]

@@kiblerjim thanks

[@daveholbert6252]

Beautiful stock... do you make left handed flintlocks?

[@kiblerjim]

No we do not- There may be a left-handed flintlock in the future but it will be a few years down the road.

[@andrewlloyd2604]

Hey was any color added to the Iron Nitrate ? Thanks AJL

[@kiblerjim]

No there was not.

[@andrewlloyd2604]

@@kiblerjim Thanks for the clarification...

[@ronbyers9912]

Would you use the same stain on walnut or cherry?

[@robgoose8126]

No. Walnut is great with just oil, cherry as well but you can use oven cleaner or leave it in the sun on the cherry to really bring out the red color.

[@Cupcake847]

Do you need a heat gun?

[@Fulcrum205]

Yes. They are cheap

[@robgoose8126]

Yes. Hair dryer isn't hot enough. Harbor freight sells one that works.

[@MFKR696]

If you've still got fuzz lifting up when it gets wet, that means you didn't sand it enough. You're supposed to wet, dry and sand it repeatedly, until that no longer happens.

[@Mark-oj9to]

I've been doing just about everything that can be done to weapons since I was truly just a kid, starting out with my Dad teaching me. Yes, you sir are correct. You do need to raise those fibers between sanding applications ... this goes for ANY wood item that you've sanded through the original finish on, or that you're making from scratch. Hot water. The hot water expands the girth of each fiber and causes them to stand up. I always allow the wet stick to hang unattended for 15 or 20 minutes, then I'll often use a heat gun on low heat to finish raising the fibers and expedite the drying process. Almost no one mentions this anymore when discussing the work in question. My uncle, my Dad's eldest brother was my sidekick throughout my life until his passing on in 2011. He was a custom clockmaker & antique clock restorer. I've watched him braze old sprockets and gears and hand cut the new teeth with no more than a triangular file and honing stones then time one back in. Their youngest brother was in charge of all the construction a Disneyland in Anaheim for close to forty years. You might say they knew the trade. I like the wood and the steel work but wood is somewhat more forgiving. Have a fantastic Memorial Day weekend. Be safe & God bless.

[@robertlittle7407]

Cool man cool

[@kiblerjim]

thanks man!

[@davidmorse6062]

There is a way to control the density of the color. Cut the solution by 3, take a day per coat to get what you want. Stop, Bob's your uncle.

[@shazmcgee2008]

Promo SM