Jimmy Akin vs. James White: Justification

[@larryf4180]

I attended Jeff Durbin and James White's church once and it planted in me the seeds of skepticism towards Protestantism. I attended a Catholic Mass for the first time today and reached out to the Religious Education office so I can learn more about starting RCIA. Please pray for me on this journey.

[@StringofPearls55]

Will do, you're in for a ride. May you have a blessed journey.

[@cb738]

praying for your journey

[@isaiahtuckern]

I put you in my prayer journal. May God bless you and lead you in His truth.

[@paulnewcombe7183]

Salvation occurs within the context of God's family (not a courtroom). Welcome home

[@traditionalgirl3943]

Welcome home, Larry! ✝️🙏🙏🙏❤️🌷👏👏👏😁🤪

[@rubensolis6003]

Jimmy did a great job explaining and defending his position. As a Protestant, I learned a lot and have a lot to think about.

[@Lochias333]

May it all lead to being ever closer to peace. Love your face!

[@tolsen8212]

Next get him to teach you how Catholics "worship and adore" Allah, god of the Muslims. Maybe you can convert to Catholicism and get 72 virgins.

[@thereisnopandemic]

Which Protestant church you a member at?

[@rubensolis6003]

@@Lochias333thank you!

[@kylie3232]

The biggest issue with this debate is that James White can not keep to his own criteria of the debate. Unfortunately James is clutching at straws here. I’m Protestant but seriously looking at the Catholic Church. Reading the Catholic Catechism has cleared up many false assumptions that the Protestant churches promote.

[@guesswho22peekaboo]

Hope to welcome you with us soon! It is definitely frustrating hearing protestant apologists constantly misrepresent catholic positions.

[@isaiahtuckern]

I converted to catholic church 3 years ago after spending about 6 years reading church history, the and the catechism. But above all, reading the Bible and seeing the witness of Jesus in the lives of catholics I know was the biggest evidence. The sacraments are demonstrated in scripture, and the protestant churches I attended growing up always side stepped the clear institution of sacraments from Jesus in the gosples and the epistles. The catholic church does demonstrate apostolic succession and the authority given by Jesus. I pray that God will guide you always in truth. You are welcome in the church universal. I invite you to continue investigating and hope that you find peace and joy in the catholic church as I have. The grace God has revealed in my life through receiving the sacraments is beyond my ability to fully express. God bless!

[@octuple505]

Thank you for at least reading the catechism before offering criticism.

[@liraco_mx]

Keep learning and asking questions. Praying for you. 🙏

[@MuttonBiryani1994]

Hallelujah Happy for you! May God guide you to His Church like he has done for so many of us.

[@Mmichael1]

A masterclass from Mr Akin. Stayed on track and didn’t allow James to derail him.

[@filippguitar]

Hi did not allow James to derail him into the subject of the debate....

[@akkuestix]

@@filippguitar lol. This was supposed to be a "positive debate", ie make your case. It turned from White's perspective into "Why the Catholic Church is wrong on justification". Yet, oblivious to the gap of his bias when he admits: at death you're not full of grace, but in Heaven you are he won't say what actually causes that change... and he confesses sin every service, even though he is sinless... are we making fun of God here?

[@SaltyPalamite]

Hardly a master class. Akin was not prepared to defend the Marian dogmas. A wasted opportunity.

[@akkuestix]

@@SaltyPalamite I don't think so. The debate was to explain justification not fall into the trap of digression. What is Mr White's position on justification? That Roman Catholics are wrong? What's Mr Akins? Convert, believe, be baptised, and if you sin , convert believe and confess. Practise faith with love

[@SaltyPalamite]

@@akkuestix The BVM is the mediatrix of all graces. It's not something to be embarrassed about. Akin ran from the Marian Dogmas like the disciples fled at Gethsemane.

[@brianearts2165]

James White is great! I owe him a lot! He played a crucial roll in my conversion to Catholicism. Of course with some help from Jimmy! Keep up the good work Jimmy!

[@SaltyPalamite]

I think it would have been more effective for Akin to just stay quiet, and let White talk.

[@brianearts2165]

​@tradcath2976 LOL! Yeah, but we must hear both sides. For those who don't care to learn the truth, that would be the approach.

[@miguelinteriano125]

😂😂is James white that bad??

[@miguelinteriano125]

Or that good??😅

[@brianearts2165]

@@miguelinteriano125 he's just wrong. I remember when I 1st started studying this issue both sides sounded compelling, but as I started to understand the exact points where both sides deviated I could drive a bus though the holes in White's arguments.

[@LoveIsTruth___]

I pray seeds were planted by Jimmy Akin's speech to those who are not catholic

[@creechclann]

Matthew 13:25 but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat and went away.

[@calebmoore4727]

They weren't. Still believe Catholicism is false.

[@silassmith5348]

They weren’t…..for you in particular

[@margaretposner450]

@@calebmoore4727 do you think Jesus made a mistake in starting his church with Peter and was just waiting for Martin Luther 1500 yrs later and all the rest to get it right. There is only one truth and I’m going with the church started by Jesus. If Hitler asked for forgiveness at the end of his life do you actually think he went straight to heaven?

[@margaretposner450]

James knows he lost that’s why he kept referring to old debates. I saw James debate Catholic Trent Horn and he lost that one also

[@hemlock999]

Thank goodness youre on our side, Mr. Akin.

[@GachaTitans]

It’s because he is defending truth!

[@revelation20232]

Thank God**

[@Crusader-George]

God is Goodness Himself​@@revelation20232

[@creechclann]

misery loves company.

[@SaltyPalamite]

This was a lackluster showing, causing more confusion than light. Must be the Bergoglio effect. 😉

[@CatholicWithaBiblePodcast]

Jimmy debates topic, James argues against Catholicism

[@Fred-t2w]

Akin didnt answer anything

[@dr.tafazzi]

​@@Fred-t2wJames: "here's 8 reason Rome is bad!" Jimmy: here's a response to the only point actually relevant to the discussion (the "false gospel" accusation). Jimmy did the right choice here.

[@leslyealbaphillips]

@@Fred-t2wabsolutely he did.

[@richarddelo3506]

I attended a debate between Fr. Mitch Pacwa and James White in the late 90's. It was the same then.

[@martincorneille7998]

Jimmy agrees to a fair, ritualized fencing duel, James White shows Up with a carpet bomber

[@gannonleonard]

Interesting how Mr. White refused to agree with a single point made by Benedict XVI even when it is his own view simply because he disagrees with everything else Benedict XVI stands for.

[@guesswho22peekaboo]

In good faith, it could be that James White doesn't want to be taken out of context? Idk....sometimes you have to be extra careful with your words that someone doesn't get you into a chimp clip trap.

[@dualtags4486]

It’s his pride and narcissism oozing out of him. He doesn’t wanna concede a single point to the Catholic position.

[@mewster1818]

​@guesswho22peekaboo sure, but equally it's easier to define your core differences if you concede what is already agreed on. Despite White denying everything, Catholics and Reformed DO have many positions that are not in conflict. So nothing is lost by narrowing the discussion to the actual differences. Akin mostly attacked the debate by just demonstrating that their differences are not as big as White makes it out to be. Also White suggested the topic, when Jimmy reads the full prompt at the beginning the prompt is a mess. It's part of what set White up for failure because it was multifactorial and he couldn't actually argue all the points contained in that prompt within time limits (no one could).

[@therealong]

@gannonleonard In fact it would be quite impossible to refute anything Pope Benedict XVI/Joseph Ratzinger has written of everything I have read of him. 🤔

[@Nolongeraslave]

​@@dualtags4486 So the one who tried to stay on the subject is full of pride and is narcissist? Did you realise how the "humble" Jimmy is just dismissive of all James is saying?

[@gustavovilla45]

James white, thanks for bringing all my protestant friends into the Catholic faith.

[@cslewis1404]

😂

[@Aethelhart]

He was really helpful for my conversion 7 years ago. The Lord is really using him.

[@smallmole]

Same. I read the Catholic Controversy and it led me to the CCC and I found myself agreeing with it.

[@teeemm9456]

Very sad that Calvinism is pushing people into Catholic faith with similar issues. The RCC has made strides to remove some misteaching, but has doubled down on others.

[@ericbuentello9703]

Mary ILOVE YOU!!! Pray for us

[@kylie3232]

Thank you Jimmy for your focus on unity rather than division 🙏

[@filippguitar]

"Debate" is for debating.... assuming the sides are in disagreement. That's how it was advertised. If one is focusing on avoiding disagreement, then just do not sign up for a debate....

[@SaltyPalamite]

Disagree. We need apologists who robustly defend Catholic distinctiveness. This was modernist V2 ecumenism, at its worst.

[@christopherneedham9584]

Debate is important. Here I am as a protestant who is digging into these issues. If Catholic doctrine is true, how am I supposed to get there with this type of representation. If Catholics refuse to defend their beliefs, why should I believe them?

[@SaltyPalamite]

@@christopherneedham9584 Listen to Catholics who defend their beliefs.

[@christopherneedham9584]

@@SaltyPalamite I do, I have never heard an other catholic who defends justification like this. I also have heard several catholics who say that Akin is a heretic for these (as well as other) views.

[@trad-lite]

As an adult convert to Catholicism from agnosticism/atheism and zero background in protestantism, I just don’t get protestantism. When I hear them debate all I hear is “pride, pride, pride, me, me, me, and other excuses to simply not be Catholic”

[@56Tyskie]

Pride is the root of it all

[@prayunceasingly2029]

It seems like when one is on that side (protestant) one only sees that side unless they've been on both. I have been protestant, and I'm not catholic yet but to some degree I know both.

[@zacharyboudreau9127]

You’re right - in Protestant theology, YOU judge your soul and YOU decide if your sins are forgiven.

[@bryanwirthlin4444]

Wow, I could have written that post. I myself am an adult convert from atheism. Having no real experience with Christianity didn't saddle me with any baggage against the Catholic Church. So when I was exploring Christianity and I was exposed to Catholicism, everything just made sense. I didn't really have anything to work through. My wife on the other hand, came kicking and screaming. She'd balk at the Mary stuff and I'd be like, "They don't worship Mary. I'm an atheist and I know that." Needless to say, my not having Protestant baggage made answering my wife's concerns super easy, barely an inconvenience. In short order, we came into the church 3 years ago.

[@timothyhodgson9572]

I would pose to you the possibility that then you do not understand Protestantism. A good resource on this is the KZbin channel Truth Unites with Gavin Ortlund. He has a lot of content on what Protestants believe and the differences between Prots and Catholics. I also want to draw your attention to James White’s description of the moment of judgement and the difference between Catholicism and Protestantism. Under Protestantism the believer stands before God clothed only in the righteousness of Christ. In Catholicism the believer stands before God in a patchwork cloak made up of Christ’s righteousness, their own works, the merit of the saints, the satispasio from purgatory etc. So the focus of Protestantism is that it is entirely about Christ and what He has done and not at all about me and what I have done.

[@JoshDosh]

Why does James insist on bringing up his 30 year old debates every time he talks?

[@groatswerth2073]

He is implying his longevity in debating makes him an authority and thereby gives him credibility. Another way he tries to argue from authority is to randomly drop Greek words into his statements, as if using a Greek word without clarifying the relevance of that word makes him more credible.

[@tabandken8562]

It's the only one he believes he won.

[@CatholicHousewife2017]

I think he thinks by doing so, it gives his argument more credibility to make people think: "Catholics are unstable & changing their beliefs"

[@StringofPearls55]

I don't know his motives, but it sure makes me giggle when he does. It's just so James White. I'd feel a little let down if he didn't.

[@ModernLady]

Yeah. I’m not going to search up what he has said before.

[@krzy1446]

This debate showed that James has become so defensive that he can't even acknowledge basic agreements with catholics. I don't think it is even possible anymore to understand what James actually believes and where the actual disagreements are. He just wants to say everything catholic is bad. Well, then it is hard to have a discussion about specific issues. He cant get frustrated when he literally refuses to participate in identifying where disagreements are.

[@bezel95]

Exactly, while Akin sought to find common ground White has become so embittered against anything Catholic that he has to perform mental gymnastics to disagree with things they both agree in. It’s probably because his family converted to Catholicism that this hatred comes from.

[@tolsen8212]

Basic agreements? Your church claims Christians worship the same god as the Muslims. We have zero in common.

[@davido3026]

​@@tolsen8212you are a poor misled ignirant

[@tolsen8212]

@@davido3026 No my friend, I obviously know more about Catholicism than you do: Vatican II: “Together with us the Muslims adore the one merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day” and “the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place among whom are the Muslims” (Lumen Gentium 16). Francis: “Muslims worship the one living and merciful God, and call upon him in prayer.” Said during his first ecumenical event in 2013. Paul VI: “Then [we refer] to the adorers of God according to the conception of monotheism, the Muslim religion especially” - August 6, 1964 John Paul II: “man will never submit to any idol. The Christian keeps to the solemn commandment: ‘You shall keep no other gods before me’ (Ex 20:30). On his side, the Muslim will always say: ‘God is the greatest.’ [note: Allah is not an idol according to JP]…”St. Peter wrote to your predecessors to invite you to consider every day the deep roots of faith in God in whom also your Muslim fellow citizens believe.” - Nov 29, 1979 [Addressing the Muslims]…”We are especially brothers in God…the Muslims and the Christians are really traveling on the same ship…Dear Muslims, my brothers: I would like to add that we Christians, just like you, seek the basis and model of mercy in God himself, the God to whom your Book gives the very beautiful name of al-Rahman, while the Bible calls him al-Rahum, the Merciful One.” - Feb 20, 1981 [Interfaith dialogue] “gradually makes possible a real renewal of mentalities, which facilitates the beneficial transition from ignorance to knowledge of the Muslim faith” - Jan 26, 1982 “As Christians and Muslims, we encounter one another in faith in the one God, our Creator and guide, our just and merciful judge…We know that by working together fraternally, we will thus be carrying out the will of God.” -May 19, 1985 “Christians and Muslims have many things in common, as believers…We believe in the same God…it is in him that we believe, you Muslims and we Catholics…The Catholic Church regards with respect and recognizes the equality of your religious progress…[Faith in Christ as Lord and Savior] “are important differences which we can accept” - August 19, 1985 “I close my greeting to you with the words of one of my predecessors, Pope Gregory VII who in 1076 wrote to Al-Nasir, the Muslim Ruler of Bijaya, present day Algeria: ‘we believe in and confess one God, admittedly, in a different way’” - April 3, 1991 “From this place, [Kazakhstan] I invite both Christians and Muslims to raise an intense prayer to the One, Almighty God” - Sept 23, 2001 Benedict XVI: “I should like to reiterate today all the esteem and the profound respect that I have for Muslim believers, calling to mind the words of the Second Vatican Council which for the Catholic Church are the Magna Carta of Muslim-Christian dialogue: "The Church looks upon Muslims with respect. They worship the one God living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, (Declaration Nostra Aetate, 3)… Continuing, then, the work undertaken by my predecessor, Pope John Paul II, I sincerely pray that the relations of trust which have developed between Christians and Muslims over several years will develop further in a spirit of sincere and respectful dialogue, based on ever more authentic reciprocal knowledge which recognizes the religious values that we have in common and, respects the differences.” - Sept 25, 2006 “I pray that the links that bind Christians and Muslims in their profound reverence for the one God will continue to grow stronger” - March 19, 2009 “…Faith in the one God must bring all believers closer…I am therefore pleased with the existence of the regular meetings, organized regularly and jointly by the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue and The Organization of Culture and Islamic Relations" - Oct 29, 2009 (to the Iranian Ambassador) “I call upon the Church, in every situation, to persist in esteem for Muslims, who worship God” - Nov 29, 2011 “In the Middle East this dialogue is based on the spiritual and historical bonds uniting Christians to Jews and Muslims. It is a dialogue which is not primarily dictated by pragmatic political or social considerations, but by underlying theological concerns which have to do with faith. They are grounded in the sacred Scriptures and are clearly defined in the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium and in the Declaration on the Church's Relation to Non-Christian Religions Nostra Aetate. Jews, Christians and Muslims alike believe in one God… The Catholic Church, in fidelity to the teachings of the Second Vatican Council, looks with esteem to Muslims, who worship God above all by prayer, almsgiving and fasting, revere Jesus as a prophet while not acknowledging his divinity, and honour Mary, his Virgin Mother. We know that the encounter of Islam and Christianity has often taken the form of doctrinal controversy.” - Apostolic Exhortation, Ecclesia in Medio Oriente, September 14, 2012

[@suew4609]

@@tolsen8212The Church says that we both worship the same God of Abraham. We have nothing else in common. They don’t believe Jesus is God’s Son. They don’t even understand God the same way we do. They don’t believe in the Holy Spirit. They have an incomplete understanding of the divine nature. This doesn’t mean that they don’t worship the same God, they do, just like the Jews do. In fact that’s a good comparison. The Jews don’t believe Jesus was God, but they do worship the true God.

[@waynehenderson439]

Jimmy Akin: "Headline, James White actually agrees with the Council of Trent" (Audience laughs). The cross-examination part really distanced Akin from White. Not a good look for James White as Akin shows Charity and seeks agreement; White seeks distance and becomes angry. White uses a false version of the Catholic Church, which Akin correctly draws out for the listeners. The Catechism of the Catholic Church is open and accessible by all, clear in her teaching. Other good quips from Akin: "I don't think you know what that word means." "Thank you very much." I say all this as a recent Protestant convert from Southern Baptist to Reformed to Roman Catholic.

[@CSSVirginia]

I agree, James had to say NO because he knew if he didn't his argument was done.

[@BensWorkshop]

Welcome

[@traditionalgirl3943]

Welcome home! ✝️🙏❤️🌷👍😊

[@benjaminshirley]

Welcome! Same here! SBC Baptist for 32 years now Catholic

[@o.o.2255]

Welcome home - similar journey

[@thisisforgod868]

Jimmy, there is nothing I can say to add to what others have already said. I just want to thank you for making my Catholic faith stronger! I made that prayer yesterday to God as I trained to become a new Eucharistic Minister for the Homebound and then God answered it right away . Thanks again!😊

[@TruthWins515]

I've never seen JW look so uncomfortable in a cross-exam before. Wow!

[@guesswho22peekaboo]

The cross exam we've all been waiting for lol

[@calebmoore4727]

Really? Man, we always say Catholics worship Mary but it also seems like you all worship Jimmy as well. He struggled this entire debate from my perspective and dodged the issues.

[@TruthWins515]

​@@calebmoore4727I only worship God. 😊 The nature of debate denotes a difference in perspective from the outset. You're completely entitled to your opinion/perspective. 😊

[@calebmoore4727]

@@sonsofpolaris6102 I don’t hate you at all. I’m just not going to let a man tell something that goes against Gods word. Your church is not the “true” church it’s just your denomination.

[@calebmoore4727]

@@sonsofpolaris6102 wow with that loving and heartfelt statement I have suddenly converted and now I fully accept that Mary ascended bodily into heaven, remained a virgin, and is co-redemptor with Christ even though the Bible says none of that and it goes against what scripture clearly teaches. I will now give some white dudes in funny hates all power over my soul and just let them tell me what to believe instead of "testing everything and hold onto the good and let go of every kind of evil" like the BIble tells me to. So glad I don't have to think anymore!

[@Purpose_of_Christ]

Catholicism makes everything easy and full of sense to grasp even with small minds. It’s just so beautiful to be part of. I’ve watched a lot of Protestant explanations to issues and watched lots of catholic view on things as well. And the more reasonable explanation is always in favor of Catholicism

[@guesswho22peekaboo]

I'm biased, but I like to think so. Way too much room for anxiety and being unsure about your salvation in Protestantism.

[@beppiek]

Hiya John ”I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” ‭‭Galatians‬ ‭1‬ The cult of Catholicism has added to Jesus has taken away from Jesus ”For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”-‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22‬ Heck your poop tried to change THE LORDS PRAYER Not to mention ALL the atrocities the cult of Catholics has spewed on this world… child rape … Teresa starving Indian kids the cult sitting on tons and tons of gold and lucre It’s just a gross cult 🤢🤮 The cult of Catholicism will house the FALSE PROPHET who will usher in THE MAN BEAST So you’d be wise to COME OUT FROM HER turn and repent

[@rmlrobl]

You have that reversed my friend​@@guesswho22peekaboo

[@calebmoore4727]

from my perspective, that is totally false. Catholicism only makes it easy if you never test it with scripture. SO many traditions and ceremonies and titles have been introduced over time it's a convoluted mess.

[@ForwardTalk]

It’s only easy because you don’t have to think or study because every decision is made for you.

[@BatmanTC]

It’s just not a fair fight, Jimmy’s intellect and rationale is far superior.

[@N1IA-4]

As they say in Texas, James is "all hat, no cattle."

[@pamelaroth3497]

White comes across as a trickster that is only interested in tallying cheap points. Immaturity on full display.

[@scsteeldrums]

James seems upset that he was unprepared for Jimmy's actual arguments so he attacks other people's arguments instead.

[@richarddelo3506]

He is ultimately unprepared for actual debate. He has a script of throwing red herrings out constantly and when it comes to actually having an exchange involving responding to another's actual ideas, the debate isn't going the way he wants it to, namely by controlling the debate via leading his debate opponent along in the question after question framed around old, anti-Catholic tropes. I think this is the actual reason for his discomfort. Akin wasn't playing his little game, so White didn't want to play anymore at all.

[@cfG21]

Remember when his sister became catholic? Constantly throwing side comments...even derails his own content without other people ​@@richarddelo3506

[@IvarsKublins]

​@@richarddelo3506 oh wow, how oblivious one can be if couldn't see that exactly Akinr was the one doing small stabs and red herrings to distract the crowd. He made interesting arguments in those moments, when there was no chance for White respond anymore. He avoided the discussion all the time despite Whites eforts to deal with the real issues. Akin wanted to make it "ahh, we agree on everything" when we actually know it is not a case in reality.

[@cb738]

James White is still furious that his sister Patty Bond converted to Catholicism.

[@chrismachin2166]

Sorrowful would be a better description

[@suew4609]

Ah, so that’s his problem!

[@suew4609]

@@chrismachin2166Why would he be sorrowful that his sister converted to the true church that Jesus founded for our salvation? He should celebrate!🎉

[@cfG21]

Lol ive been saying that in the comments

[@anatalia504]

Mr. Akin is just brilliant! Bravo!!!

[@DirtExtractor]

LOL

[@johnedward-jessop9477]

Ive never seen James White look so uncomfortable

[@borneandayak6725]

For the second time, Jimmy roasted White like a Texas BBQ.

[@bobhawkins2997]

How did he do that? On what issue?

[@joshuastelly9129]

@@bobhawkins2997just on all of them. Especially the cross examination where he was actually getting Mr White to agree with Catholic beliefs but of course Mr Whites pride as always got the best of him and his only answer is NO I don’t agree…..even though he involuntarily just did.

[@Fred-t2w]

No he didnt. He just avoided to answer

[@fddooley1]

​@@Fred-t2w well that's cowardly if you have an opinion or a belief surely you stand up & speak not sidestep the issue.

[@SaltyPalamite]

I'm a Catholic. And I don't think that. Akin was not very effective in this debate IMO. Anytime a Marian dogma came up, he ran away like the disciples at Gethsemane.

[@Doppelier]

You can see how Jimmy's approach completely undercut James' game plan right from the get go. White's opening statement had one pattern, but the moment the point of "salvation through faith" was conceded, bringing the debate to the the understanding of the words rather than the words themselves, White started to rapid fire objections that had no relation to the topic. I wonder why. This was better than day 1, I think. Great work.

[@BrewMeister27]

I appreciated the intellectual rigor in the first night's debate. Jimmy owned White on the timeline for Sola Scriptura. If the doctrine couldn't be applied during the first century, how could any of the New Testament documents command it? Check mate. Jimmy's approach in this debate made him seem calm, confident, and reasonable. Meanwhile, White looked like a hammer desperately searching for a nail. I imagine a few Protestants softened to the idea of Catholicism that night.

[@mamezou3741]

On the first night of the debate James tried to criticize Jimmy for already having prepared slides for his rebuttals. And yet, all of his slides were apt, as though Jimmy had already accurately predicted exactly what James would say ahead of time. 🤣

[@andonedave]

Jimmy, I thoroughly enjoy your demeanor and wealth of knowledge.

[@richardnoronha]

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. We give thanks to God for the witness of the Holy Spirit working through Jimmy🙏🏽

[@cephasrocks8516]

Wow! I came home to the Catholic church 28 years ago from an anti-Catholic Lutheran background, and I’ve been studying Apologetics ever since. Jimmy did such a nice job defining the different types of faith and really backed it up with scripture. I’d never come across that before, but I’ll definitely be incorporating it into my Apologetics efforts!

[@ogmakefirefiregood]

Thank you for the thumbnail. I hate it when either side puts up a terrible picture of their opponent.

[@JimmyAkin]

Yes, I hate that, too. I always try to find flattering pictures of people for use in thumbnails and video cutaways. It's unfair and uncharitable to deliberately use unflattering photos of other people. It's also a cheap game that anyone can play, so it simply reveals a lack of charity to "go there."

[@simonhaokip6481]

Hello Jimmy, thank you very much for this debate. I appreciate you so much. Greetings from Rome. I have read your books. Wish to meet you someday.

[@ivanfrancis1765]

Hi @JimmyAkin will you be doing a post-debate debrief for both the debates?

[@JimmyAkin]

The current plan is yes, most likely on Wednesday.

[@joshnewhouse61]

Wow. Jimmy you pinned James many times. Again your professional demeanor was clearly superior. You did an excellent job of evading the “low hanging fruit” as well as your opponents baiting. You are a great debater and evangelist, capitalizing on the opportunity to teach the faith clearly and concise to an opposition who was flanked with your tactics.

[@LukeDelaney-g6k]

2-0 Akin. James white you are blinded by pride you have the spirit of pharisee they claimed to know the sriptures and rejected the literal word of god we are praying for you to come home 🙏🏻🙌🏻

[@TrulyCrispy855]

It’s weird to me that James White tries to explain what the Catholic Church ‘actually teaches’ when Jimmy is sitting across from him one of the greatest Catholic apologists of our time.

[@dvd1966]

If you wanna know what the Catholic Church teaches, just read the catechism and it’s not biblical.

[@peterj2226]

Well in fairness I think the modern Catholic Church is significantly different to the church of old so I agree with James White on that point. The Saints and Doctors of the church were less interested in dialoguing with Protestants and were more direct in instructing them and warning them from a position of authority, which is why we need Bishops to do this work and not laymen like Jimmy Akin. He may have a high intellect, well formed arguments and a certain agreeableness for dialogue with Protestants but nevertheless he has no authority and is not a successor of the apostles. Our bishops are not like the bishops of a hundred years ago and have become heads of NGO's more-so than princes of the church. Into the vacuum has stepped well intentioned laymen who are seriously impaired by fears of appearing too traditional. Well sorry to break it to you but the Catholic Church basically regards tradition as being the Sacred Word of God and yet the modern church regards tradition as being too rigid and since Vatican 2 "Aggiornamento" is the flavour which means "bringing up to date". The modern Catholic church is behaving like it started with Vatican 2 and are disregarding the tone and teaching of the older councils. Some sections of the Catholic church are even disregarding the teachings of Vatican 2 and the Code of Canon Law of 1983 (both of which have problems) . So its tragic that it has got to the point that even Protestants are noticing. James White even pointed out Víctor Manual (Tucho) Fernández. The Church is in serious trouble if he is appointed to be the Prefect of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith. These kinds of shenanigans are a serious problem for Catholic apologists because it is truly inexcusable and yet merely a more obvious symptom of a devolving Church which is falling away from its roots. Rome: We have a problem.

[@johnchurch160]

Jimmy, you utterly smote White in the cross examen. You put him in the hot seat. Well done.

[@davido3026]

White departed like the belial lamb!!!

[@timmleonard111]

Brilliant Mr. Akin. The cross examination was particularly revealing. Thank you for your service to the Lord.

[@Joe-gi3nj]

The entire dialogue regarding purgatory was like watching the SpongeBob meme of Patrick and his wallet lol

[@Averyaveragedeskin]

at 1:11:40 James literally agreed with jimmy and then proceeded to say he didn't agree. Incredible.

[@timboslice980]

I think James White is far too predictable for a guy as smart as jimmy. If i could ask mr Akin one question it would be: “was anything james said in either debate a surprise or did you anticipate all of his responses?”

[@JimmyAkin]

I've known James White's views for a long time, and I did extensive prep for both debates. I knew the selection of arguments he would present, but there wasn't time for him to include them all, so he had to make choices. (I had slides prepared for arguments he didn't use on this occasion but had used previously, and I'd set such aside.) The surprises were thus not on the level of him presenting new arguments. They were only in terms of *which* claims he chose to make from his regular stock of claims.

[@CatholicHousewife2017]

​@@JimmyAkin very wise

[@timboslice980]

@@JimmyAkin Wow thanks for the response. I figured you must have some slides you didnt use. I’m really impressed with that strategy, i know james white complained that you came to make a presentation, not debate but i think he just doesnt like being blueprinted and knows he lost badly. Bravo jimmy!

[@BensWorkshop]

@@JimmyAkin Could you do a video on the sacramental priesthood of the New Testament please?

[@ordinary_deepfake]

I had a bingo card for how many times he would use a Greek word for no reason

[@joevasanu7459]

The level of hypocrisy by JW knows no bounds. He repeatedly did the “Gish gallop”tactic in this debate but in his recent debate against Dr Leighton Flowers on Calvinism JW refused to answer some questions and whined to the moderator that Dr Flowers wasn’t adhering to JW’s interpretation of the debate topic, refused to continue and implied he was going to walk off the stage because he felt Dr. Flowers was improperly questioning him about his presuppositions

[@christenh359]

What’s worse, IMO is how he said in the first debate that “I hate when I’m accused of using that tactic” when in the next breath (or next debate) he does exactly that.

[@jeffg939]

If one takes a fair look at why White brought up things like the mass, purgatory ect would it not be because they are built into the Roman catholic view on salvation? Take purgatory for example, if one's sins were imputed to Christ and his righteousness imputed to the believer by faith would there be a need for a clensing in purgatory? Would there be a need for the proprietary sacrifice of the mass? Are there mortal sins that can affect your justification or did were all your sins imputed to Christ and dealt with at the cross? So while many say he's just bringing stuff up I think, it's legitimate questions related to justification by faith alone

[@joevasanu7459]

@@jeffg939 You’re missing the point. In a debate it is considered unethical to just visit them out in a list when you know your opponent can’t possibly address them in the time limits. As a seasoned debater, he was well aware of what he was doing.

[@tolsen8212]

Gish Gallop is a fake fallacy invented by atheists to attack Christians. So why are you using it? But it's all academic anyway, Catholics aren't even Christians. They worship Allah along with the Muslims. Pope said so.

[@jeffg939]

@@joevasanu7459 ok fair enough probably should of just used one example I guess or maybe saved those question for the cross examination? Not really across debate etiquette as you can probably tell, but I do think that many of these topic heavily affect justification by faith

[@bigfootapologetics]

The "Who Has a False Gospel?" slide is brilliant in that it really points out how Protestants are quick to condemn Catholicism as having a "false gospel," yet give each other a pass on equally substantive if not greater disagreements concerning salvation and justification.

[@TruthHasSpoken]

God uses people like James White to bring people into the Catholic Church. That said, we are to pray for him - we ask too that those in heaven pray for him, Mary included - that he puts his pride down and that the Holy Spirit softens his hardened heart. One great thing about being Catholic is that we receive the Resurrected Christ, a means for receiving God's grace. Protestant grape juice and crackers is just that, nothing more. I can get the same thing in my kitchen. James needs to just trust Jesus: THIS IS MY BODY - and the consistent teaching of his Church for 2000 years, which God says is the Pillar of Truth and that God promised to lead to ALL TRUTH. James can't STAND IT that Jesus didn't mean what he said, and that ALL means SOME.

[@fizzmaister]

I hope everyone had Mitch Pacwa on their James White Bingo cards! Oh who am I kidding, that's the free space in the center!

[@ignatiusjackson235]

I used to watch Mitch Pacwa on EWTN when I was a teenager, but he went off the deep end after Mother Angelica got sick and passed away. Last I saw, he was raging against the Pope for the manufactured "Pachamama" controversy.

[@canibezeroun1988]

That's so sad to hear. I watched get double team on the dividing line show and come out looking very well in Baptism.

[@prayunceasingly2029]

​@ignatiusjackson235 these days definitely are testing people through controversy. God help us.

[@maggiesace389]

​@@ignatiusjackson235wake up - that pachymama bs was not manufactured! And, Fr Mitch Pacwa went off "deep end" cuz YOU want to ignore facts? If Mother Angelica were alive, shes have gone after Bergoglio with both barrels over his "pachymama" abuse and so much more that Bergoglio owns!

[@Shonaalexandra416]

It’s hard to watch how bitter, rude and arrogant James White is. Thank you Jimmy for being a good example

[@AELmom-fs4jq]

“You will know them by their fruits.” 😊

[@Jaymes4001]

Jimmy’s style enters a room before he does . “Go forth boldly “

[@t.d6379]

Watching James White lose ALL of his last half a dozen debates has really shown me there is NO hope for him and his type. What is the point if they can not see the wood through the trees? Whites pride is disgustingly big. I watched his post debate podcast and his pride is out of control and that is definitely his defining character traits. Its how he still cant see the wood through the trees.

[@maddiemeadowsplace9990]

His after video is very telling. “Be ye not wise in your own eyes”. One can only pray for his conversion at this time.

[@fddooley1]

The first sin was PRIDE. Lucifer the fallen angel tempted Eve with the sin of pride. Eve, then convinced Adam to also eat from the tree of knowledge to become as God. Jesus is our example of humility. His grace is the only solution to rid ourselves of pride.

[@georgeluke6382]

Debate Doug Wilson please!

[@DirtExtractor]

Yes, White has a big proud head, I can't listen to him. The catholic guy is out there too. Write is a calvanist, if that don't tell you something nothing will. You gotta be on your game to support that doctrine. That being said I believe calvanists are still my brothers & sisters.

[@orangemanbad]

James White comes off as so angry and petty and not debating with Christian charity. He can never win this debate; he’s been trying decades but he can’t because the facts are against him.

[@Whatyoutakinbout]

Easy there cupcake

[@orangemanbad]

@@Whatyoutakinbout no thanks snowflake ❄️

[@BatmanTC]

Exactly.

[@BatmanTC]

It’s just not a fair fight, Jimmy’s intellect and rationale is far superior.

[@robbieg.3462]

His cadence has always been the way it is. Akin is actually the one coming off snobby and sarcastic.

[@mw7525]

James White, you turn people off by your snarkiness. Jimmy, you won in content, confidence and likability.

[@londijaramillo709]

I thought this debate was about justification, yet James has to continue to talk about Mary and purgatory.

[@bryansphere6359]

I’m a Protestant Christian and lean toward the reformed position. But I think that Jimmy’s analytics were far better than James Whites in this debate. Akin did a better job of defining terms, breaking things down, explaining and organizing his points. His overall tone and attitude was also far better. James came off as being more preachy than anything. He stated many of the issues he felt was at the center of this debate but didn’t really follow that by offering step by step arguments. James lost this one!

[@TheRealMagicBananaz]

James White does his position such a disservice by his being so uncharitable

[@davido3026]

He longs fir soeakingbinbtobgues and firgets what Paul says...if I spoke the language of angels but have no love, i am nothing!!!

[@defeatingdefeaters]

So many great parts in this debate. For example, I loved the part during Jimmy’s cross examination where White essentially affirms and denies important entailments of purgatory almost simultaneously.

[@polodown4729]

Jimmy Akin smoked James white

[@wordforever117]

Yeh but it's James White though, int it?

[@t.d6379]

It's only James white

[@iamboringguy]

​@@wordforever117 Nope. He is irritated in almost every debate like a woman.

[@bobhawkins2997]

If you are Catholic, of course you would say that.

[@christenh359]

@@iamboringguyno need for misogyny, brother.

[@Agedcheddar417]

"So these last two debates have not gone particularly well for me. I was planning on Jimmy repeating the same points from my previous debates from circa 1990. So in closing, please just go watch those ones instead. Thank you." Definitely an...interesting tactic

[@grossepointemichigan]

Imagine the surprise of protestants who find themselves in Purgatory. Pray for their souls because their fellow protestants aren't, since they don't believe in it.

[@markwilson1724]

Jesus spoke more of Hell than any other person in the Bible. There is a Heaven and there is a Hell. No purgatory...no second chance of purging sins. There is only one of two choices for eternity. Smoking 🚬 or non smoking ✝️🆘️ Smoking🚬 you become the Old Testament burnt offering. 🔥🔥 If you die in your sins you'll go to hell. Souls of believers do not go to a place of torment. 'Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them (Revelation 14:13)

[@dualtags4486]

@@markwilson1724White admits that we’re not experimentally righteous at the moment of death but nothing unclean can enter heaven so what happens from the moment of death to heaven to make us fully experimentally righteous?

[@acTioNFLp]

There are no protestants in purgatory, only Catholics are saved.

[@prayunceasingly2029]

​​@@acTioNFLp I have heard some catholics say otherwise. That some rare protestants could go to purgatory because they lived lives of holiness and only committed venial sins. But of course that's debatable 😊

[@MuttonBiryani1994]

@@prayunceasingly2029That’s only part of the condition. They must also not have obstinately disbelieved a SINGLE article of Catholic faith. So some protestants who are not ”anti-catholic” can end up in Purgatory but none of the anti-catholics that we so often come across.

[@doinkclown7020]

How do Protestants respond if someone asks them directly if Jesus failed His promise when saying the gates of hell will never overcome His church?

[@AlexofAwesome]

Being charitable and 'steelmanning' a position I do not hold, it usually involves some variation of: 1. There were always a select number of faithful Christians throughout the ages... which often 'just so' happen to align with their preferred doctrines and organizational structure. 2. The Church was always just the number of really believing and faithful Christians, like the faithful remnant of Israel, and so is not a single organized body. 3. There was a great apostasy and it just happens our (often cultlike in the derogatory sense - and I am adding this because of personal experience) leader or prophet or whoever reestablished the "true Church" or "true organization" or "true belief" or reconstructed the 1st century practices somehow despite being separated by at least 1500 years. 4. Not ever consciously thought out; or doesn't believe in Hell; or doesn't understand the symbolic meaning of that phrase. 5. Jesus meant "X" - add or subtract text as needed.

[@MeanBeanComedy]

​@@AlexofAwesomeThat's about right.

[@JesusChurchBible]

They reply with a question about worshipping Mary! 😂😂😂

[@ignatiusjackson235]

How do Protestants respond? They just stand there with their eyes crossed and their tongues dangling out of their mouths, like they always do.

[@Lizardfisher]

JW had his claymores back to front and gave JA the firing device

[@jmichaelgrey2854]

These two men are among my favorite teachers. What a blessing to have them come together to debate!

[@beppiek]

What? So you are a fence sitter A lukewarmy

[@jmichaelgrey2854]

@beppiek I have questions, and the conversation has given me much to pray on. I thought Trent Horn won his recent debate with James White, but I wasn't sure whether he actually won or just seemed nice. Just before watching this debate I heard a podcast with Trent Horn and Matt Fradd discussing biases, and Trent Horn pointed out we can be biased towards believing people who are nice. Jimmy Akin easily wins the debate if the debate were on who had the most grace. I don't know if he told the most truth. I pray for clear guidance from the LORD. Peace be with you.

[@dr.tafazzi]

​@@beppiekthat's not something appropriate to say

[@markusvanhusen8600]

Why can‘t JW just admit that he agrees with Pope Benedict on this point?

[@CatholicHousewife2017]

Pride?

[@microphone321]

He’s too prideful it’s insane

[@QuantumWired]

Watched the first debate, ready for this one. Let’s goo Jimmy!

[@EmberBright2077]

I loved James White's first rebuttal, complaining that Jimmy Akin didn't talk about a bunch of other topics that were unrelated to the debate.

[@FrankenSensei2]

James White emotionalism seems to rise to the surface in these debates, and Jimmy Akins calm and pleasant demeanor rises to the surface while focused on making his case skillfully without being derailed or distracted by White’s subtle “offense vs defense” position. My opinion and perspective. Good job Jimmy.

[@John_Six]

White went to debate. Akin went to evangelize. White playing checkers and Akin playing chess.

[@tolsen8212]

Evangelize us to Islam? Catholics worship Allah according to the Popes and Councils. No thanks, I'll stick with Jesus.

[@John_Six]

@@tolsen8212 LOL way to go! You just threw all of the Arabic speaking Christians out the window.

[@tolsen8212]

@@John_Six Because the Islamic religion has had such an influence on Arabic that they falsely translate God as "Allah" in Arabic Bibles? So here's a question for you genius: do the Arabic Christians believe in the same god as the Muslims because they call him Allah? Yes or no? And do you agree with the Catholic Magisterium that the Christian God and the Muslim god are the same? Yes or no? And because I call YWWH "God" and a Satanist calls Lucifer "god", are they both the same god seeing as the same English word is used?

[@TheChurchofBreadandCheese]

I really liked the host.

[@JimmyAkin]

I did, too! He was a great guy!

[@anitra7747]

@@JimmyAkinI found the laughing at questions asked to Mr. White a little disheartening. You were so gracious in what felt to me like a less than agreeable congregation. You handled it with an unyielding peace. Thank you for investing so much to defend the truths of our faith. God bless and keep you.

[@vvelez5]

Im working alot on trying to figure this out. Jimmy has been very informative. I dont know where I stand yet so I pray to God to have the Holy Spirit guide me the right way and the way he wantsm e to serve

[@paulhallett1452]

The Victory to Akin w/ all Glory to God.

[@SaltyPalamite]

I wish that were the case. A pretty lackluster performance IMO.

[@fortunisko1657]

Tippy Top work Jimmy! On substance there is much agreement. That took the wind out of the sails of James White. That is not a bad thing for Mr White because now he can refocus on more substantive disagreements. He should appreciate that. I know I appreciate it and look forward to further developments. Thank yuo Mr Aiken.

[@joevasanu7459]

He can’t. Conceding ANY issue to Catholics is an existential threat to Protestants like JW. He disavowed his own sister for having converted to Catholicism. Pray for him and other Calvinists

[@ignatiusjackson235]

​​@@joevasanu7459 God bless her for wiggling her way out of that bloody cult by the grace of God.

[@prayunceasingly2029]

​@@joevasanu7459James White's sister became catholic? I didn't know that

[@jillrothwein3654]

@@prayunceasingly2029 Her name is Patty Bonds. Look up her conversion story on Journey Home.

[@BensWorkshop]

@@joevasanu7459 Did he? Oh dear.

[@krzy1446]

Everyone needs to remember this as the day that James White seemed to agree with the principle of purgatory lol.... nice job jimmy

[@wordforever117]

Just heard White's opening and maybe I missed the point...but it sounds like one of the most catholic things I have ever heard. The only issue with it is the addition of the word "alone". Confused.

[@RealSeanithan]

I love how White opened his first rebuttal: "It's really not fair that Jimmy didn’t make the arguments I expected him to make, because I wanted to argue about all of these other points that he never brought up."

[@benjaminshirley]

Hahahaha Jimmy laid the hammer in the closing statement!!! The entire time Jimmy was trying to reconcile Christians. James White chose the opposite. A simple reflection on this one point alone is enough to settle the "debate".

[@borneandayak6725]

20:55 Jimmy Akin Opening Statement

[@derekbarber]

Jimmy, you did an amazing job again with this debate! Thank you for modelling charitable discussion and for showing that we have much more in common with our separated brethren than most people are aware of. Sadly James White seems intent on division and so I pray that he would have a change of heart and come home to the Catholic Church.

[@thomasbailey921]

Theres no way. Mr. White actually used his closing statement to say "i dont like the way this debate went, so go watch my other debates because i think they went better (for me)"

[@Krista_Lynne]

Another home run Jimmy! White: I don't have time in five minutes to talk about all of that. *Proceeds to spend one minute and 5 seconds reading a prayer to Our Lady of Perpetual Help.* The more I hear White in debates the more I dislike his demeanor and approach. Whines and complains (comment about an additional 30 seconds in previous debate). Spends a lot of time talking about debates he's done in the past which I can only conclude he thinks doing so bolsters his argument (it doesn't). I'm also completely unconvinced by his frequent assertion "everyone in this room knows that/agrees/disagrees". Most importantly, he never wants to agree to anything the other side says. There are things both sides can agree on (as Jimmy pointed out) and yet he will disagree or refuse to confirm agreement. More and more he strikes me as petulant and juvenile.

[@thankfullyforgiven9611]

I truly appreciate this church for hosting this event, this pastor as a moderator, Jimmy Aken, and James White. I feel like events like these will help bring the unity of the body of Christ. I just pray that we can come together, lay aside and work through our differences, focus on Christ, and bring the lost souls into the Good Lord’s kingdom. Just imagine what we could do for the Lord if we could just come together! The possibilities are endless!❤

[@AjRobinsonUg]

Such a sad looking sanctuary. I don't miss that.

[@AELmom-fs4jq]

I was thinking the same thing! It’s so devoid of beauty. It’s glorious to go to a Catholic Church and see sculpture, stained glass, paintings, and colorful robes. Churches should be our most beautiful buildings; unfortunately Protestants see images and think “idols”. 😔

[@Lochias333]

Well said. All the beauty of the statues and robes and windows always brings my mind to a wonderful, quiet place that makes it that much easier to contemplate, pray, and praise God.

[@craigsherman4480]

According to Jimmy, Dr. White had a medical emergency a couple days after this debate. Please pray for Dr. White and his family during this difficult time in their lives.

[@Lochias333]

Sure thing. Might be from all the bull-plop that White is filled with, but I do hope he gets to feeling better.

[@Sil-Von]

These last two debates were master classes. Jimmy is a gangsta no joke!

[@jeremysmith7176]

James seems to say several times "Why didn't Jimmy come prepared to defend all these other issues we had not agreed to debate tonight".

[@pinknickelvidz]

It appears, White can't color inside the lines.

[@AnonymousIdealist]

Thank you Mr White for exposing yourself. Thank you Jimmy for the great debate.

[@marteld2108]

At 53:28 White keeps questioning the Sacraments, Mary devotion, Purgatory etc. He is not even using his time to make the case for "Reformed" soteriology. And if you listen to his other debates White always complains that his opponent is not staying on the debate topic.

[@roysantiago9925]

Jimmy Akin is so very very good, he has done more than defending the Catholic Faith in a very Christian manner, but also certainly refuted James White's claims against the Catholic Faith

[@BassByRon]

My former professor once said, “If you can’t explain it to a 5 year old, then you don’t know what you’re talking about.”

[@RebeccaLynne2046]

So sad I didn't know about this. Could have come to see it live since I live close by.

[@MeanBeanComedy]

RIP!

[@RepentB4TooLate]

Hoping that one day James White will go through a life changing event and just like Paul, he was blind and now he sees. Jimmy Akin explains very clearly

[@tolsen8212]

Maybe it'll be as life changing as when your Popes discovered you "worship and adore" the same god as the Muslims? PS: Say hi to Allah for me next time you pray.

[@dejuanbattles6062]

@@tolsen8212james white worships a God more similar to the God of the Quran than the God of the bible, may the Lord reveal that truth to you sooner than later🙏🏽

[@tolsen8212]

@@dejuanbattles6062 Would it be too much to ask for you to reveal it to me right now? Just any evidence at all.

[@dejuanbattles6062]

@@tolsen8212 God is not a rapist. He could have saved us and the world all on His own without us. Instead He chose to save us and then also give us the choice to help in the mission of saving the world. We are not puppets or robots enslaved to an emotionless God. If you actually want evidence and you aren’t speaking out of two mouths, do more research on what james white believes (5 point calvinism) and if you already know what he believes, look up those objecting to what he falsely claims to be true. the evidence you’re looking for is already out there, you just have to be brave enough to look, brave enough to be challenged, brave enough to be wrong. are you? sam shamoun, Leighton flowers, trent horn, joe heschmeyer, they all speak on Calvinism. there’s your evidence, your call to action. humble yourself before the Holy Spirit and ask him to lead you into the fullness of faith, even if u think you’re already there. this could be the start of a great transformational journey, or just another representation of our flawed nature as human beings. regardless, the Lords ways are above ours. i pray for the union of all who follow Jesus, i pray He makes us one in the fullness of faith and unites us in the bond of Love. i ask this through Christ our Lord, amen. PRAISE THE TRIUNE GOD

[@sgtadhesive9044]

It was kind of painful, hearing Dr. White list a half dozen or so other debate topics. If you want to debate purgatory from a reformed vs catholic perspective, pick that topic. Being so vague as "how do we have peace with God?" Dont be surprised when there's disagreement on what the topic actually is.

[@phickle]

Mr White seems to have a problem staying on topic and addressing Jimmy's rebuttals. A whole bunch of "what aboutisms" and attempting to bring up his hot topics.

[@AMAM-ui4pb]

I've never seen a clean knockout delivered in a pleasant and charitable way! (Poor Mr.White - knowing he was getting trounced, keeps referring to a debate over 20 years ago with Mitch Pacwa - beyond desperation)

[@thankfullyforgiven9611]

I admire Jimmy. I truly believe he is one of the most charitable debaters I’ve heard. He never talks down to people, but attempts to be clear, precise, on target to the topic, and in love. For those wanting to debate and present the gospel in love, Jimmy is a great one to learn from. Thanks gentlemen. This was very good! I do wish if James is going to bring up all those other topics, then go for in another debate. They do need addressed, but they need to be in order and in a loving way. Not to sound simply as a cheap shot.

[@sugami82]

James White not content on being DESTROYED by Trent Horn he has to be HUMILIATED by Jimmy Akin as well 😂

[@FrankenSensei2]

😂👍

[@CatholicWeeb]

5:50 James White Opening 20:55 Jimmy Akin Opening

[@sebastianfonseca1788]

Confessional protestant here with a RC background. This is the first time I hear James White and I am baffled at how difficult he is. If this is reformed theology, which I know it is not from my years of experience and learning, then get me out. Unfortunately, there are many who create conflicts this way at the expense of better dialogues. I sympathize with Jimmy here - totally support his efforts to bring people together. Great job! To be clear - I am not thinking in becoming RC. I am in disagreement with the doctrine of purgatory, the RC soteriology, some wording in its sacramental system in many places is super problematic (propitiatiory and unbloody sacrafice), papacy, apostolic succession, magisterium infallability and marian doctrines. Confessional Lutheranism is my best example of well balanced and truthful denomination. BUT Jimmy’s views and accounts of doctrine regarding justification are on point here and leaves an outstanding space for Christians to come together. Love it and will continue supporting this channel - thanks Jimmy!

[@halleylujah247]

Jimmy Akin needs a pipe blend called James White. Because Jimmy always smokes him.😏

[@lebell79]

Laughed out loud at this one, good one!

[@kvnboudreaux]

Good one!

[@TKDB13]

James White seems like he came riled up for a knock-down drag-out rhetorical brawl and got completely blindsided by Jimmy's charitable and peacemaking demeanor.

[@AjRobinsonUg]

James: Imputed righteousness and experiential righteousness are different. Also James: experiential righteousness isn't important, only imputed righteousness.

[@goneawayanon]

God bless you Jimmy,what a nice job!

[@BobBob-yj6pg]

James White king of overload. “I need you to refute a pamphlet I found.” What is it with Calvinist and their obsession with Mary?

[@christinemcguiness9356]

Thank you Gents, God bless you both🙏

[@Sevenlilies]

Pray for our Protestant neighbors who believe salvation is achieved through some sort of democratic process. History shows why they reject a type of monarchical hierarchy such as the Catholic Church yet we shall never give up praying for their conversion

[@prayunceasingly2029]

I'm unsure what you mean by protestants believing salvation is achieved through a democratic process?

[@SneakyEmu]

No protestants believe salvation is by a democratic process..

[@tolsen8212]

Good luck cooperating with God in your salvation. I'm sure God is grateful for your contribution. Do you know why we reject your Catholic hierarchy? Because it does things like teaching that Christians worship the same god as the Muslims. ie false doctrine.

[@prayunceasingly2029]

@tolsen8212 I think most catholics don't actually believe they worship the same God as Muslims. I think such statements of sameness or similarities with Muslims are made for the purpose of ecumenical dialogue. But catholic teaching has always been since Islam began that Islam is heretical. Also were the statements made by the pope infallibly or just as a personal opinion? As there are differences between the two. The pope can have wrong opinions as long as they're not spoken infallibly.

[@tolsen8212]

@@prayunceasingly2029 What "most Catholics believe" is completely irrelevant, they're not at liberty to believe anything they like. Their beliefs are dictated by the Catholic Magisterium. You also have a big problem, because either the Pope's and Council's official statements on doctrine are infallible or they're not. If the Pope only speaks infallibly when making an "ex cathedra" pronouncement, then there are only two infallible statements ever made by the Catholic Church. Assumption of Mary and her immaculate conception. Which makes the entire Catholic system, councils, teachings and so on merely a bunch of opinions that aren't binding on anyone. Yet the church has pronounced a whole bunch of anathemas damning us Protestants regarding doctrines that aren't ex cathedra pronouncements - and excommunicating any Catholics who disagree. So are they speaking infallibly or not? And if not one of the Popes of all the ages apart from Pius IX and Pius XII ever said anything infallible, what's the point of the Papacy? And what are the chances of all the Popes getting their opinion wrong on Islam - a pagan religion that has a different god and a different Jesus? Doesn't sound like any of them have a clue. No, let's cut the BS - we both know that this is OFFICIAL Catholic teaching, multiple Popes and Councils have confirmed it, it's there in black and white. If you're a Catholic, you accept Catholic doctrine. And it is Catholic doctrine that Allah is the God of the Bible, despite denying Christ and not having a triune nature. You're just scrambling desperately for a way out of the embarrassment. Which is precisely why I use this to refute Catholicism.

[@ADHD_Samurai]

1:13:01 you can't joke with someone who appears to have no real love in his heart. I don't know James White's heart, but his actions speak volumes.

[@marteld2108]

At 37:34 White says "We haven't heard anything about Purgatory, Mary etc." Yeah James. The debate is about Justification. Remember?

[@Randompancakes12345]

Purgatory has everything to do with justification. If the sacrifice of The Lord Jesus Christ on the cross is effective, meaning all our sins have been completed forgiven and done away with forever, and we have the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21), what's the point of purgatory? To punish sins that have already been fully atoned for by our saviour? That is heresy.

[@marteld2108]

@@Randompancakes12345 Purgatory was not the debate topic. White used none of his time to convince anyone of his “reformed” theology. Out of the whole debate he spent only 5 minutes toward the end with one verse of Scripture to establish his position i.e. John 6:39. White lost the debate without staying on topic alone. And he picked the debate topic himself.

[@Miatpi]

Really like your way of tactic, Jimmy, focusing on articulating the Catholic position in a favorable light than just trying to dunk on Whites position or getting tangled up in details of argumentation. This opens up for a more friendly and productive discourse than if the debate had just been a competition of proving each other false. Unfortunately, many debates are just like that, and I’m afraid those doesn’t serve a better educative purpose than teaching people on how to disagree with each other. But doing it your way, something fruitful may actually come out of it.