My Two Favorite LPVOs: Nightforce ATACR 1-8 and Vortex Razor 1-10

[@ryanlepper8981]

Channel should be called Jim's Gucci Life

[@Brimwald]

Over $4k in two optics and mounts

[@lucusallen42]

Probably just saves his money lol not like he bought an island

[@ryanlepper8981]

@@jimmybrodriguez drop tha link

[@joquin4618]

Dude is either the best budgeting man, is rich, or has a sweet sponsored content creator deal. Good for him.

[@ericraymond1274]

For real! Gives us something to dream about if we win the lottery 😂

[@zacharyreed8523]

Modern LPVOs are tanks. In 2020, my M4 with a 1-6 Razor got knocked about 8-9ft off of a MAXXPRO in some pre-deployment force-on-force training. It landed *hard* on the side of the optic in gravel. The only damage to the optic was that the portion of the reticle that contains the "dot" rotated within the optic tube by a few tenths of a degree (the illumination reticle is hidden by the width of the lower vertical portion of the milrad reticle). The milrad reticle was still perfectly aligned and the illumination function still worked. The rotation was just enough to notice a small amount of separation at the base of the reticle, but the dot stayed centered. It was days before stepping off, so I started getting concerned. When I arrived overseas, I was able to confirm zero and, sure enough, the optic had no shift. Zilch. I was amazed. I used the optic for the rest of the deployment without any issues.

[@narutobroken]

Wow what mount was it in?

[@lentztu]

Ha. Love your budget talk. Most people don’t seem to know what budget means as a word. Budget doesn’t always mean low budget…it means what you can afford/willing to spend.

[@Matt-dd3cw]

One correction, they both have the same size .2 mil center dots. I like that the Vortex dot is semi-transparent. I shot some tiny groups with it, the fact that I could see my target thru the center dot was helpful. I really like the Vortex 1-10, but cost was a factor for me as it was over $1,000 cheaper than the NF. Getting the correct height mount and consistent cheekweld really helped me with the tight eye box at 10x. I found 1.7" to be the best height mount for me. I only played with the Nightforce at a gun store, but at 8X, the eye box seemed comparable on both. One pro for the NF is that the DMX reticle is easier to pick up at 1x without illumination. With illumination on, they are both awesome

[@LWRCFAN01]

NF ATACR is the GOAT. Excellent clarity and toughness.

[@jimmybrodriguez]

Agreed

[@IsThatMikiko]

ATACR and primary arms plx 1-8 compact is amazing to me, I mostly use the plx because it’s clear while also being lightweight and durable

[@jimmybrodriguez]

I’ll have to get hands on one

[@chickennuggets2929]

how is the eye box on the plx?

[@IsThatMikiko]

@@chickennuggets2929 not too bad, you can find a review here kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4W0qmSrYsSUh6s

[@damonaniton]

The primary arms is actually super high on my list because of the reticle. The cost is the best in this magnification but it is so close to the nightforce it make me hesitate a little.

[@IsThatMikiko]

@@damonaniton that’s why it’s good to have both🤣 best of both worlds man!

[@OnMyGrizzle]

Thanks for the video. Another pro of the razor, 116fov at 1 vs 96 fov of the atacr. I’ll take a little fishbowl effect at 1x to have the Scope body almost disappearing and huge field of view. No free lunch 👍

[@MaddMaxxLop]

Very convenient, I’ve been having this internal debate for the last 3 days.

[@ianaquila1858]

Check out SupersetCA review on these as well. He included a couple more as well in a Premium Scope shootout.

[@normwilson117]

another great installment.. best part, aside from the outtakes, is the features/functions to look for rather than some formula or single recommendation for every possible use case; well done, young man.. grateful

[@jimmybrodriguez]

🙌🏻just trying to help people make educated purchases and not trying to sell them anything

[@rileyshepherd3862]

Love my ATACR

[@RADIOACTIVEBUNY]

The Razor 1-10 is VERY tight in terms of eyebox. You should check that out before you buy. It really is tight. Even on 1x it's noticeably tighter than other optics on 1x. Simple physics, nothing you can do about it without sacrificing elsewhere, but it's there.

[@flooid5506]

It’s not bad. If it feels tight, you’re probably too close to the optic.

[@jgrady7779]

There is nothing tight about the razor 1-10 eyebox.

[@fook-joby-den6172]

PLxC 1-8x is an awesome lpvo and punches above its price point.

[@cliffarnold7463]

Purchased the NF ATACR for my Triarc 13.9 (which should arrive next week). Can’t wait to see what the combo can do. Well… if I do my part. 😬

[@JoseChung21]

Excellent insight - you are the first person to explain that an LPVO with a BDC reticle (which is most LPVOs) makes no sense. You could just as easily use a Eotech EXPS3-4 with 4 ballistic dots with a G45 magnifier and avoid the 1X downsides and lack of daylight brightness of almost all LPVOs. I would also love to get your thoughts on that specific Eotech model and how it stacks up against the NF ATACR. You killed it when you said the LPVO reticle is everything. Man awesome job you've done the community a service with this video.

[@JoseChung21]

@Florida Man HVACR From looking through my unit, the reticle does indeed get bigger. Without the magnifier, the spacing between the 4 dots is barely discernible (see Eotech caveat from their website attesting to this). Under magnification, the dots become easily discernible as the reticle enlarges.

[@tylergarrett4498]

Honestly man I've had a pretty relaxed time getting hits without the extra dots. The only time I really needed the dot was at ~700 yards when you can no longer have a battle zero hold and you aren't touching the dot or rings. This was the truth for me anyway, shooting norma 55's out of a urgi.

[@UponGiantsShoulders]

Swampfox 2-12FFP with 45 offset dot in badger ordinance C1 at lower 3rd height. So comfy, high value, good warranty.

[@WhiskeyJax0109]

Great info. If you ever have a chance you should try and get your hands on a trijicon VCOG. I would love to hear how they compare to the other LPVOs

[@DefZen343]

i keep hearing the eyebox on the vortex 1-10 is pretty bad, wish i could try it out. i have a vcog 1-8 and the eyebox and eye relief on it is a ton more forgiving than my 1-4 nikons, 1-6 PA, 1-6 Credo and any of my higher magnification scopes 😲 its just very heavy, like really heavy and the illumination sucks, Love the scope though 😁 eyebox, eye relief, AA batteries and an integral mount are what sold me on it 😁

[@boygonewhoopdataZZ]

Yea VCOGs are almost in their own class in eye relief and eye box.

[@mikeevansgutierrezcasanas6234]

Have you seen the Primary arms PLX 1-8 gen 1 and 2. Kinda like the older one with a 34mm tube. Probably a solid option. 👌

[@ordinary_american]

Really nice stuff here, well done. I could see myself liking the ATACR, but right now really enjoying using an Athlon Cronus 1-6. Amazing Japanese glass, costs less than NF, Kahles, or Razor, but still gets you far ahead in the game. Have a review on the channel in case anyone is interested (shameless plug). SFP and BDC, but it's perfect for my uses, and SFP isn't a downside for a 1-6x, BDC is simple and practical.

[@JGoodZX6R]

SFP on a 1-6x is perfect. 1-8x depending on reticle, can benefit from FFP.

[@emtothedee]

Saying that what an Acog accomplishes can also just be accomplished with a red dot and magnifier is some fighting words! Def makes me think though since I just picked up an Acog myself. Maybe a g45 and T2 is an equally capable set up if zeroed properly

[@jimmybrodriguez]

Haha well you have it now so learn to use it, make the most of it and learn it’s limitations. Taylor was hitting out to 400 with just a reddot. I’ve shot @shhhboss 14.5 to 500 with just a dot. So it’s definitely doable but it’s target, and time dependent.

[@darrel15]

@@jimmybrodriguezyou are a god amongst men. I feel bad shooting targets at 100 with a red dot but I’ve also never got to shoot steel. Shooting paper targets sucks

[@evanacey1414]

I’d be curious to hear your opinion on the March 1-8 or 1-10 “shorty” LPVO’s that have a Dual Focal Plane reticle where the stadia and hash marks are on the first focal plane, but the very center illuminated dot is on the 2nd focal plane. This is beneficial for obvious reasons, but add to it the fact that these scopes have parallax adjustment and are 8” in length and a mere 17 Oz (w/o mount or rings) and you have a really compelling package.. I don’t understand why these compact March LPVO’s haven’t taken off in popularity..

[@jonathandurham816]

Wondering the same

[@ItsDuct]

I've been waiting for this video for a long time.

[@Beltfedshooters]

The March F 1-10x Tactical Shorty scope with the dual focal plane reticle is better than the ATACR and RAZOR. They got a new March 1.5-15x42 with a dual focal plane reticle coming out mid January 2023 that's going to be a game changer. It will be about the same compact size as a Razor Gen II scope.

[@TheQuickest]

It's a shame March reticles are kind of hot garbage compared to most mainstream brands.

[@m4a1JAY]

Mid grade Japanese glass with the price of a German scope. No thanks.

[@Sovereignshield]

Didn't know the new reticle was a thing for the atacr. My 2 atacrs are trash!! 😆 Good video. I really like my atacrs but I've often thought the center dot was too big.

[@ShepherdOfTheSilkies]

PA and Vortex are having their compacts made at the same Japanese factory. Both I believe are also Japanese 3rd party engineers. It’s a brand new technology design and what not but don’t quote me as that’s not gunna be public information for a good bit.

[@DefZen343]

i think most Japanese made scopes come from the same plants with the same outsourced suppliers. if im not mistaken Even the factories that make the Philippine 🇵🇭 made scopes are owned by a Japanese parent company and they make Vortex's "Viper" line and some of Nikons hunting scopes.

[@ShepherdOfTheSilkies]

@@DefZen343 yes, is basically one company that’s the leader in clear glass making. They make most top tier quality glass for everything related to cameras and optics. I know they have a U.S. facility for military contracts as well. I think it’s because they hold one patient for making glass in most countries. What I’m not sure about is who holds the new optic patent, and who all uses them for optics.

[@JGoodZX6R]

Where can I find info on this Vortex “leak?” 1-8x? Any clue on reticle?

[@ShepherdOfTheSilkies]

@@JGoodZX6R vortex themselves have been dropping hints and leaking stuff since juneish. On social media, KZbin and the podcast

[@JGoodZX6R]

@@ShepherdOfTheSilkies have they mentioned any sort of time line?

[@josiahb55]

Check out the new primary arms PLx Compact 1-8x24, pretty outstanding outside of not being nuclear bright, at $1499 its punching above it's price point at the "alpha glass" class.

[@boygonewhoopdataZZ]

Eh I saw through a buddies and it was completely btfo by my Sai 6.

[@josiahb55]

@@boygonewhoopdataZZ haven't seen an SAI 6 yet. I've heard good things and would expect it to be a bit better on the top end as it isn't being pushed 2 extra magnification on the glass and it isn't a compact length. My eyes on experience is limited to PA SLx 1-6, Swampfox Arrowhead 1-10, Burris Rt-6, Burris XTR II 1-8, Riton X7 tactix 1-8, Tract toric 1-8, PST gen II 1-6, Delta Stryker 1-6, Vortex Razor 1-6 and gen 2E 1-6 and lastly the Vortex Razor 1-10. Of all those I've seen with my own eyes the PLx Compact 1-8 is overall my favorite. But I'm a sucker for the disappearing bezel effect, hopefully the SAI8 1-8 coming out this year will achieve that aspect as well.

[@19Clutch69]

@@boygonewhoopdataZZ btfo?

[@garrettgibson3802]

Maybe I’m bias but I’ll share my point of view. A Point for the acog is durability and weight. The vortex is about twice as heavy as the acog and less durable. Plus, depending on what focal plane you choose, most will leave the LVPO at a certain magnification and get an offset rmr. Field of view is also greater with the acog. Got to pick and choose what you prefer for specific needs. Mission dictates need. Does not make one better than the other.

[@jimmybrodriguez]

Agreed which is why I said what I said in the video

[@hkpro99]

Thanks man great Video! Merry Christmas

[@dylanbond1627]

IMO if 6x isn't getting it done, you need to move to an MPVO. You're sacrificing too much to go from a 1-6 to a 1-8 or 1-10 - cost, eye relief, durability (theoretically). Kahles k16i and Leupold mk6 are the sweet spot for LPVOs. You just need to decide if you want FFP or SFP.

[@signkutter9218]

Razor 1x10 was a huge let down imo...fisheye, tight eyebox at $2500 is a no go...great reticle...they would do awesome to put that reticle in the gen2e 1x6 razor

[@chrisharrelson178]

What about the lack of auto ranging ability on the attack vs the vortex. Do you find it difficult to quickly find the range without this feature?

[@lukeflaugher5334]

Awesome video Jim!!

[@mohawk3371]

The info on the acogs is a little off. If you get the BDC reticle intended for specific barrel lengths and loads, they are dead on.

[@grantshurtz]

Jimmy I see you stepping up to the Forward Controls charging handles 👀👀👀

[@jimmybrodriguez]

Slowly been swapping them over. Good to see another man of taste noticing! 🤌🏼

[@grantshurtz]

@@jimmybrodriguez they’re my favorite overall out of all the ones I’ve tried. I will say though the slightly older ones had a more matte finish that I liked a lot better. I’ve got an FDE one that I bought recently and it’s a bit shinier and more slick than I’d like. I talked with Roger about it and they’ve gone through a couple of different annodizers which is why they’ve got some slight variations. The black ones currently produced I think still have a more matte finish.

[@TheQuickest]

Is there something weird happening with the comparison shots in the glass clarity section? It looks like the ATACR is a "flatter" image with less fishbowl effect than the Razor, and it looks like the ATACR also has better clarity in the center of the image, but the Razor has better clarity around the edges. Does this make sense? Were the diopters set exactly the same between them? I don't understand why the center of the Razor should look blurry when comparing these images.

[@TheQuickest]

The Razor also looks to have quite a bit more CA as well.

[@slamfire5382]

Had the old NF ATACR, ended up selling it. I did not like the large center dot. The new reticle looks like a winner.

[@Glandash]

Between Trijicon and EOTech, there’s no reason to buy an optic that isn’t manufactured in my home state of Michigan or for a Michigan brand. Vortex and Nightforce are both great, but I’ll stick with home state pride.

[@jimmybrodriguez]

Go Blue!

[@danielgarfield2395]

I love the Brinks truck like durability of the VCOG's but at it's price point, Trijicon could've done a better job with their selection of reticles. The subtensions on them appear cluttered and if I'm going cough up that kind of scratch for an LPVO, there's just no excuse for them to be producing reticles that resemble something that an 8th grader in mechanical drawing class hastily put together.

[@yzwme586]

wow i never knew that lol

[@joquin4618]

For the $$$, I would go with vortex razor gen2 e1-6x, vortex PST 1-6x, delta Stryker 1-6x, or a solid primary arms 1-8x PLX. Use the rest to buy a reliable firearm and ammo plus training. Just a better way of allocating resources if ur on tight budget. If you’re rich, then get Everything Gucci. On a budget, get the best bang for your buck “Toyota Camry”equivalent. Just my $0.02 cents

[@EpsteinNooseSolutions781]

I’ve never seen a aimpoint or eotech fail but my Razor did completely fail. Got it fixed but I’m selling it

[@jimmybrodriguez]

This is why large datasets matter because everyone’s individual experience varies

[@EpsteinNooseSolutions781]

@@jimmybrodriguez yea word. That’s not the only reason I’m selling. It’s the gen 2 SFP and that’s not gonna cut it for me anymore.

[@12gaugemackattack]

Just curious, how did it fail?

[@EpsteinNooseSolutions781]

@@12gaugemackattack something with the erectors failed and the optic was zeroed on 6x but would be like 12” low on 1x. They fixed it and sent it back pretty quick though

[@kiteokoh2652]

Hey Jim! Great video! I think you'd really dig the eotech vudu 1-10x SR-5. Very similar reticle to DMX on Atacr with a comfortable 10x in terms of eyebox. The 28mm objective really makes a difference!

[@jimmybrodriguez]

11:23

[@jackofharts9]

Another BANGER. Only Question, how should I mount an ATACR on an M&P?

[@Esko_Vasya]

Reptilia Corp rings or bust

[@SKRAGER]

Building blocks and duct tape.

[@jimmybrodriguez]

Offset LPVO on the M&P with irons as the main optic

[@Snapper314]

Badger Ordnance Condition 1 mount.

[@maj.kamper9314]

My atacr eye box is less forgiving than my leupold cmr-w 1-6 with tremor reticle and it is significantly lighter. I love the atacr but I prefer the leupold. But rugged and durability Nightforce hands down. But leupold is American made and lifetime warranty same warranty with vortex. Nightfirce says they built it right the first time so won’t have problems. But I’ve called nightforce and thier customer service is great. So pretty much it’s preference and funds.

[@homeromorales3458]

Where can I find that leak for the upcoming Vortex scope?

[@scottcallow4593]

What would you say would be the better options that you mentioned early in the vid?

[@jimmybrodriguez]

“Better” is heavily application dependent. You can scroll the comments and see an interaction we had about khales, for 2 gun or some run and gun it may very well be a better option.

[@camron1501]

Thank you.

[@jimmybrodriguez]

🤘🏼

[@junie350]

You didn't mention the LVPO Primary Arms Compact PLx-1-8x24mm FFP Rifle Scope - Illuminated ACSS Raptor M8 Yard 5.56 / .308 Reticle. You do alot of high end stuff, bring it in a little lol. Love your videos. Can you do a review on Arken optics, just because we value your opinion.

[@rlm2010az]

Great information

[@jefff7899]

What mount is the vortex on ? What is the side mounted optic?

I only use an old vortex 1-4x on my 45-70 for hunting. Tired of shitty BDC:s and no parallax, yes I do shooting att 500meters+, but only ever use 10x.

[@HNT318]

What mount and offset was on the NF ATACR 1-8 than you displayed? BTW, great video.

[@tbardizbanian]

Unity mount and Unity offset

[@5jjt]

Random comment: Don't get Holosun's Titanium model of their 3x magnifier because most complain that they cannot mount it rearward enough, and therefore have to stretch foraward uncomfortably to gain a proper sight picture. Instead, get Holosun's $200 model, or a different manufacturers' design.

[@derek.nordgren]

Hopefully this video will help me sell my gen 3 1-10 😂

[@C_oprator89]

Great video.

[@aaronyojimbo1753]

Nice job man.

[@emtothedee]

Need to find out how the new plx compact stacks up

[@bender43718]

What kinda of paint pen do you use for marking torqued screws?

[@GolE2839]

I originally got the Vudu 1-6 but am having regrets . . . Really liking what I see and hear about the ATACR 1-8 . . . My wallet better prepare itself . . .

[@mikeevansgutierrezcasanas6234]

Just buy another gun and you'll feel better about buying a new optic. 🤣🤣🤣 so you can justify it not going to waste 😄😄😄😄

[@JGoodZX6R]

Where was this vortex compact leak? Anyone have a link or details?

[@fazotakeiteasy]

Could you do a short video on how you set up your zero on the nightforce?

[@frankopanklaric]

What LPVO for DMR in .308.(AR10).

[@hannibalbarca2939]

Why are all your recent videos only with the ATACR?

[@5jjt]

Are these really worth 3 times the cost of a Trijicon Accupoint?

[@wolfbear572]

Does the vortex razor 1-10 have an etched reticle?

[@ignaciogodinez8217]

Is the razor gen 2 or 3 suitable for an ar10?

[@sethmarksberry1881]

Have you used the Nightforce NX8

[@chasemcclure6550]

Is that the sapphire sandwich speedmaster?

[@jimmybrodriguez]

👀good eye

[@chasemcclure6550]

👊 diggin it.

[@madstoppie]

None of you KZbinrs talk about Swampfox, you just gave the Sig Tango an honorable mention. My Swampfox Arrowhead 1-6 is waaaaaaaaay better than the Sig and the glass even has almost no “distortion” compared to the ATACR 1-8. Can’t speak of long term durability, but unless you are a real operator/SF guy, “combat durability” is just a romanticized term.

[@rmp5s]

If LPVOs have such good 1x, why have a 45 degree red dot?...

[@hm096]

I’ll give you two answers. 1. It’s quicker to switch over to your red dot to get back to 1x than to change the magnification level on an LPVO, which is why some people pair an LPVO and a red dot together on their rifles. 2. A red dot will allow the user to aim passively if they are using night vision, which isn’t really possible to do with an LPVO. That said, a red dot isn’t a necessary addition to most people’s LPVO setups since, yes, 1X is really good on many of the LPVO offerings on the market. An offset or piggybacked red dot is only really needed by a small percentage of people who own LPVOs.

[@StevenPham217]

Im the very small minority, but I found the Vortex 1-10 to be more preferred between the two after trying the ATACR 1-8 for a bit. But now that Atacr has a better home with Preston lol

[@jimmybrodriguez]

I’m just gonna tell everyone it’s because you’re a vortex shill lol

[@StevenPham217]

@@jimmybrodriguez nah homie, Leupold MK6 or BUST

[@jimmybrodriguez]

How much has @shhhboss been paying you?

[@shhhboss3139]

@@jimmybrodriguez he's right you know

[@JaxT83]

@@StevenPham217 not sure if serious but man, love the mk6. Only kept atacr b/c it was clone correct for what I was doing but mk6 is amazing

[@rtk114]

I got a Vortex for just over $1400 and wish I had the ATACR. The eye box at 10x isn’t good at all. For the price I got it for I did okay though. It’s not worth the $1800 you see it going for a lot.

[@VB6000.]

My $600 2-16x Vector Optics should work for me on my 16” ADM who cannot afford more than 100 match grade ammo.

[@ExplorinInTheWoods]

Poortex gayzer, the lord’s brand in Trijicon

[@QuitYoJibby-JabbinFool]

Lmao

[@jerryyang8174]

Jinx, we said “price” at the same time.

[@dominicwilliams9473]

They are accessible because they are sooo damn expensive!

[@chap23305]

"Yes, there are better optics on the market" *holds up 4.5k in lpvos* Bruh say whaaa??? Lol

[@fordraven5884]

If you have fat pocket buy the most expensive one and practice and practice😊😭

[@JohnKrieger]

For me you drop that type of cash and need to even use a warranty aka you had a problem, that optic is out of a conversation. Optic’s primary consideration should be function

[@johnadams673]

I trusted thus guy, until he vouched for the razor 1-10. The glass on that optic is trash. And the reticle is piss poor st 1x

[@jimmybrodriguez]

I show what the glass looks like and talk about it’s shortcomings

[@johnadams673]

@@jimmybrodriguez I totally get the angle you go for here, the high end clout stuff if kinda your thing and trying to pick up the poors who want to watch and drool and the more money that sense crowd who just want to look cool. Anyways clout Is about the last factor on the list with gear. Anyone who has looked through a Kahles or razor HD 1-6 and has a brain will not be blown away impressed with the atacr 1-8. You will be incredibly disappointed that the extra grand you spend doesn't get you any advantage in clairity or eyebox, I would even say a downgrade In clarity from the Kahles, and a worse eyebox than the HD 1-6. What you are gaining is 8x without absolute losses in those categories like other options on the market. So it really comes down to slightly worse perfoemamce in visuals and usability in exchange for an extra $1000 and 2x more. Now the HD 1-10 takes a complete L in all categories major steps down from the atacr for again 2x more. Bottom line on that is if you need 10x, you don't need an lpvo

[@jimmybrodriguez]

lol you take shots at me for clout chasing then mention Khales. As I stated at the start of the video their are cheaper and better options for different people. My issue with the khales is they are second focal plane which presents their own issues. Also, first focal plane glass is harder to make as clear as second focal plane which is why you will see sfp scopes with clearer glass for cheaper. Again it’s all trade offs. Additionally, I find the khales reticle to be less versatile for my use. It make work for you and that’s great, but doesn’t work for everyone.

[@lucusallen42]

@@johnadams673what? Haha

[@johnadams673]

@@jimmybrodriguez lol I am fortunate enough to be able to buy expensive toys but truly blessed to be truly brand agnostic. I didn't realize Khales was "cool" but I totally see why it is tho, if the k16i is sitting on a table next to any other 1-6 that's what I take, however if I were a reviewer I would caution the diminishing price/performance ratio of it sits at. I can totally respect your view on the ffp aspects tho, however it does fix alot of the issues with sfp reticles from a visibility and dot brightness stand point, and I personally never dial to anything other than min or max so the reticle inaccuracy of ffp is kind of a non factor for me personally.... I just hate that HD 1-10 tho because for walking around it really needs to be at about 4x for usability but that's right in the range where there sfp reticle is in nomans land of usefulness

[@dexterous187]

More guns and scopes in the video and less of your face.

[@cardboard_shaft]

i’ve seen so many 1-6 razors break it’s not even funny, 1-10s seem to be a little tougher though

[@TheStevenbryant19]

What mount and offset is that on the razor?