Jiren: A Bad Character Done Well

[@Vraelf]

"To me Jiren remindes me a lot of One Puch Man Saitama in one specific way" my mind automatically thought you would say "they are both bald"

[@hoenaoi5030]

Monroe: A bad boy done good

[@imtheman84]

Devilish boi

[@inamerica55585]

I would like Jiren's character to be fleshed out by having him be totally incompetent and un-confident outside of fighting. Like, he puts on the strong silent type because he literally can't think of what to say to people.

[@overdrivee00]

I'm a year late but this is the most genius idea I've ever heard well done

[@sephikong8323]

This is so fucking hilarious,why did I only find out about this comment now ?

[@thelittlesonic7250]

Jiren is both exceptionally boring and entertaining at the same time.

[@zipperman6045]

I like to think Jirens last thoughts whilst being erased were "I would've won if I hadn't broke my back carrying this team"

[@milesandrews6711]

I mean at least 3 other members damaged some of universe 7s team significantly or almost eliminated someone or did

[@DimitriMonroe]

Monroe BLACKED

[@JustJohn816]

TheSMonroeShow Subarashi

[@no_mnom]

Thanks no Homo

[@PromKnight]

Again?

[@hoenaoi5030]

Blacked and White

[@animeacidtrip4396]

TheSMonroeShow Nah, fam. Also, are you ever gonna do a video about power levels or this whole Power scaling thing?

[@ramblecampbell]

This channel: A good boy done even better

[@Draylin41]

What I would have liked to see is Jiren actually doing something when he decided to start meditating other than just wake up when Goku was able to go Ultra Instinct again. When they revealed the part about him exuding so much energy no one could even approached him I thought for sure his plan was to just create a slowly expanding barrier that would eventually push all other contestants off the stage. It would explain why he wouldn't start until he was certain anyone that could penetrate it was already dealt with. Naturally Goku and company would end up proving him wrong but it sounds better to me than the "Wake me up when it's over" kind of feel they went with.

[@BeforeIforgot]

You're cute as heck

[@ticklemonster7956]

******GAAAAAYYY******

[@PhyreI3ird]

Of course someone named Ticklemonster would say that.

[@lainhikaru5657]

Yep he is :p

[@PromKnight]

If Chaotzu was still alive, he couldve taken care of Jiren pretty quick. ;_; I miss that little chinese stereotype

[@renlenks2840]

I do too :'''( goodbye old friend

[@markusoliphant1865]

No one ever expects him...

[@lapplandkun9273]

Lol, he was completely forgotten. At least krillin, Tien, and Yamcha appeared in super. I don’t think chaiozhu appeared once in the series at all

[@threefingerdeathpunch4259]

Jiren is a bad character but a good obstacle

[@RacingSnails64]

Here here, man! Jiren being the "Chuck Norris of Dragonball" sounds ridiculous, but it's genuinely cool just how raw this guy's base form is. No transformations, just him. I like that. His style of utterly untouchable feels uniquely done in Dragonball. Incidentally, I'm in the vast vast minority that has no problem with his backstory--I don't think being generic is inherently a flaw, plus it faciliates his lack of trust in friends which makes him arguably the best foil to Goku to date--and the manga actually gives a bit more motivation to Jiren. He's basically a superhero along with the pride troopers, and he *doesn't want* to be in the ToP, nor does he have any interest in being a God of Destruction. That's why he spends so much time meditating and just staying out of conflict. I like insanely strong characters who are apathetic to the main conflicts. He also just comes with a LOT cool imagery and abilities. His meditation, his eye flurry attacks, his "it's over" finishers, his ki looking like a red sun... His fights are just generally spectacular. People may not like Jiren as a character but he brings a lot to the table!

[@hadsbros]

Jiren is an AMAZING antagonist! He embodies someone who has overcome insurmountable oppression and has surpassed ultimate confidence in his abilities to champion over all who oppose him. Jiren takes our imagination on a rollercoaster ride of how we stand up and persevere though any obstacles no matter the situation. His only flaw is opening his heart and mind, he has mastered the win or die complex completely! Even more than ANY mortal like Goku and even a GOD like Beerus. Jiren is a cosmos of interest and intruige, I'm sure we'll see him fleshed out soon enough... So cut him some slack will ya?

[@BlackHawke21]

I also liked Jiren, even with all the hate he got. I agree with your points that he was done well, in that he never really faltered like others. He benefited from the arcs structure as a constant looming threat in the background. Also that final scene with Goku, Freeza, and 17 vs Jiren with music is amazing.

[@Nehezir]

probably one of the better arguments for his scenes. those moments toward the end were pretty exciting. just...not really good enough to be preferable over an actual antagonist. Plus Jiren isn't even written badly. It's more like he's barely written.

[@gh0s7-704]

>Watches a video the day it was uploaded "So this is the power of ultra instinct?"

[@sidclauwers5945]

Fun fact I want to get into dragon ball because of Jiren and this was the last push XD

[@Chrome166]

Yeah! I mean, my favorite characters are Kale and Caulifla, but even in the parts without them it was my favorite arc ever, and a lot of that hinged on Jiren's execution and the tension surrounding him. He was the perfect foil to the main characters, too!

[@Colossus42069]

I am actually a huge fan of completely over powered characters, especially when they're dealt with well, just the idea of them makes me feel almost challenged myself to beat them and relate to the protag more even if the protag is the overpowered one, cool vid, thanks :D do you play OW/League?

[@Gemini_Hero]

These are some pretty fair points; I think ultimately it depends a lot on the individual viewer. For me, ToP was Super's absolute lowest point. The entire structure from word go is busted, the whole tournament is basically a giant farce with no actual purpose (and when you learn the actual purpose it makes even less sense), Goku is solidified as criminally reckless and negligent, honestly to the point of villainy, almost every introduced character (including and ESPECIALLY Jiren) is a giant bundle of completely wasted potential... It was by far the longest arc. We spent forever watching week to week, wondering if it would ever go anywhere or do anything interesting, and basically every week we were disappointed. There were key points they clearly wanted to hit: "Ultra Instinct fight with Jiren midway'll be super cool! Frieza and Goku tag team aw yeah that's so cool!", but then it completely forgets you actually need some ok writing to get us to those points. Otherwise they just feel hollow and shoehorned no matter how cool the premise or animation is. And that's exactly what the ToP was to me. A hollow series of ultimately meaningless, if not awesomely presented, moments.

[@Zouketsuki]

Monroe Black is 😩👌

[@snowball9392]

He wasn't a bad character its just that we didn't get much of a back story. I do remember Cell. He was powerful too, but he did have a good backstory. Jiren wasn't a bad character

[@Hdubs44]

Sebastian Michlieas do you remember what made jiren stand out as a character

[@bladehero8490]

but jiren literally had no personality for like 80% of the arc

[@ggamesgarner8027]

I mean at least cell actually had character. Jiren is just a brute who’s strong for no reason.

[@Amnesia1998]

My favorite femboy talking about a childhood anime. Cool

[@geckgoes6719]

Honestly, his character development and story was rushed towards the end. If they gave Jiren an arc earlier in the show, people would’ve felt excel irating seeing Jiren and goku duke it out instead being bored about another over-powered antagonist cliche.

[@DM-Oz]

I kind of wanted Jiren to have been painted as the hero of the arc while Goku was antagonizede

[@chayalexander18]

Jiren had some really good points but after seeing ultra instinct he still just played around so each time it seemed like the end it wasen't which drained any suspense from the show at that point that last fight was pretty hype. Great video

[@EnochVA]

Toppo:Jiren! Jiren:.... Toppo:I'm the lorax Jiren!

[@lapisleeps8692]

This was a enjoyable video, something more relaxing.

[@PersianSlashuur]

I really did like Jiren. And because of that, I want to ask this: Everybody says that his backstory is generic or clichéd, and...yeah, it is. _But why is that a bad thing?_ It's not like it did nothing for his character. It's not like it didn't effect him in any way. In fact, his backstory is _why_ he acts the way he acts. His parents were killed by "someone" and the friends that weren't also killed by that "someone" completely abandoned him. It's why he doesn't trust anyone and why he's so obsessed with power and strength so much. Is it complex? Not really. But honestly, most DB villains-Hell, most _characters_ even- aren't all that complex with the exception of Vegeta, Gohan and Piccolo, in my opinion.

[@Hdubs44]

Persian Slashuur because the backstory was boring and dumb, it's was so ordinary for an anime backstory

[@PersianSlashuur]

Like I said, it isn't really complex, but it still explains his motivation and why he acts the way he acts. The fact that it's "ordinary" doesn't really mean anything. For the sake of argument, let's say that he was actually from one of the 6 universes that were erased by Zeno, like may of the DB theorists said. The question is: What does that change for his character? The answer: Instead of wanting to become stronger to defeat a random bad guy, he wants to become stronger to defeat Zeno. Other than that...nothing really changes. He'd still lust after strength and he'd still be haunted by the memory of the people who he couldn't save. It also raises the question of "How did Jiren survive a _sixfold universal erasure?"_ What, was he in a different universe while that was happening? He _alone_ was in a different universe while that was happening? Why? How? Did Zeno/The Grand Priest leave him alive intentionally? Again, why? It just becomes way more confusing than it should.

[@EatherTrainer]

OMG, especially the last time the song kicks in

[@steelblake]

I´m from latam so i forgive Super for a lot of dumb BS well that and i love shonen so i´m acostum to a lot of BS but that´s not the point. When Tori come with the concept of the character of Jiren i have to admit it´s not something you saw in DB before, like a serious treath who is serious andwhile his character was poorly executed i have to admit i did have fun when he was on screen even if it was for the wrong reasons. Good video Mon. I hope the Toei hammer doesn´t fall over the channel

[@Elsa_Jay]

that Freeza chant tho. imagine if everyone did that in his original appearance. he'd literally have won from hype alone.

[@Carzeyday]

Sometimes you don't need a villian. Sometimes,a titan is fine.

[@Kinra_Jade]

Jiren isn't an antagonist. A rival would be more appropriate. The guy works to arrest bad guys in his universe and had a different view on strength than Goku. Their fight, to me, was a clash between their belief.

[@YightLagami]

General problem for me is in general the asspull power ups which came along with it like how Goku got ultra instinct and how ultra instinct gave a power up for some reason?

[@ajojoreference2307]

"I want to talk about Dragon Ball or Smash" I'm waiting on the Smash video.

[@JerichoVR]

Learned something new and it's kinda ironic that one punch man was sort of a parody of dragon ball but well has that ballad brick wall. Lol

[@ZarelYddrasillIngway]

I didn't like Jiren due to how poorly written his character was (not just the back story either). But then again, he wasn't half as bad as Cell so I can give him somewhat of a pass. Frieza, the U6 Saiyans, 17, and [Ultimate Battle] carried tToP arc for me.

[@SpaghettiGod34]

Alright you’ve convinced me about Jiren but I still don’t like the arc itself

[@DukeApples]

Jiren is not a villain...hes just a boring hero from another Universe.

[@ArcadeChan]

Love to see a fellow Dragon Ball fan! 😊

[@ChibiRuah]

Glad to see a video you enjoyed more or is at least lighter

[@DimitriMonroe]

Don't get me wrong I loved my last video it was one of my favorites. But also one of the hardest to make because of the topic, it was nice to talk about something light before going back to normal (:

[@Pensive_Scarlet]

TheSMonroeShow Haha, I was hoping you weren't just joking about liking this sort of stuff. I've always been utterly baffled by just how much I honestly, genuinely love a good, long, crazy fiction about big huge man-men going on beat-face adventures. Are you big into Street Fighter or the Capcom universe at large, too, by any chance? Or even better, SNK stuff? :D

[@frappompi]

Lmao that last clip happened in my city, people fucking adore Dragon Ball here.

[@JustJohn816]

I agree! Not much else to add. What did you think of the Zamasu arc?

[@DimitriMonroe]

I enjoyed the black arc, it was the first time super got me genuinely invested. Everything before was just kind of meh or done better in the movies. However, the last episode for the arc left a bad taste in my mouth. Wasn't a fan of the whole "reset, with two trunks and two meis in one timeline" Would have preferred if trunks just stayed in the main timeline which means he could have been in the top. Which ya know, would have been cool to see.

[@JustJohn816]

TheSMonroeShow right? I liked it a lot and thought Trunks shoulda Nut Cut Zamasu and then that was it. Or as you said he goes to the ToP What about the Saiyan waif- ahem... Girls

[@DimitriMonroe]

I wanna nut in caulifla while she beats me up.

[@JustJohn816]

TheSMonroeShow OMG YEEEES

[@JustJohn816]

TheSMonroeShow Ahem... I agree sir

[@thejedisonic67]

As overpowered as he can be, lets not forget the great moment Jiren meet the one who easily destroyed him: Ultra Instinct Shaggy

[@phantomstar9406]

The brain cells I’ve lost reading that title

[@jon-b-poor8566]

hey Monroe, when you do your horror game live stream, you should start with Baldi's Basics because the game is free to download and you can test the waters as the game isn't as scary as other horror games. I know your a little kid at heart and get spooked easily but the jump scares aren't too bad.

[@gumgumdookuin7963]

Monroe has become a anime trap. Everyone in the comments below keeps sayin' he's cute. Correction: he is adorable. -_-

[@JustJohn816]

WHAAAAAT Havent finished the video yet but I'm SUUUPER excited (no pun intended)

[@Kennedy640]

Dragon ball powerscaling is a fucking shit storm And I love it

[@thealcresth595]

All the dragon ball villains are hot, especially Jiren

[@PromKnight]

The hottest DB villain is Monroe Black by far

[@beiwubsnsod7378]

What about el hermano

[@gravethestampede3454]

Jiren might not have needed to transform but he certainly wasn't full power from the start. He was either doing nothing or going easy for the majority of the tournament.

[@DimitriMonroe]

Never said he didn't hold back his power, he had it max from the begining and used exactly the amount he needed to overwhelm the opposition. The point was to say he was never overtaken, there was no back and forth.

[@chanceneck8072]

I fucking LOVE Jiren. Still......

[@0rriAndroid]

The execution in how he's utilized is done well in and of itself, it's just that everything about Jiren as a character is as generic and bland as it gets. Your hair is adorable, by the way!

[@DDD_Tinker]

4:38 "NO MAMES"

[@chriscanul4075]

I love this channel!

[@PromKnight]

Chris Canul I love you UmU

[@chriscanul4075]

Prom Knight uwu

[@mattsmith457]

Leaked Goku vs Jiren script, read at your own risk: Jiren - *stops ur attack with finger* pssssh... is that all u got? *troughs punch* Gonku - *quikly doges* hmm fuCK hes good, or should I say, food because I like food Janin - *puts finger on fedora while grunting as he thoroughs Barack of punches at Gondor* Gordo - tsshhhh... U mised fagit Jupiter - Or do I? *Explonsion behind GoPro* Gapple - HRNNNGH? Joestar - *tepelorts like 60 times then does kickflip then follows it up with does super explosive canin blow* Conker - KRRRRRR... MASAKA Jeep - Kaiokek X 40 Geodude - *wips blood off moth* my moth Jacksfilms - *Speeds into Garnet and charges punch* Gyro - *Smirks* Hmmmph, u have been fallen into my trick Jenga - *eyes become dark* what did u do desu Greenday - u are right in the blast radius of my blue eyes white dragon! Jinx - not wicked at all *jumps out of way* Galileo - Woaha haha careful bud u almost bumped me ther Japanese - Oh sry my bad lol Groundhogs' day - hmm, forgive me Roshi-kun, I most go all out just this once *fuses with blue eyes white dragon* Jerry Smith - *does fast kicks* Geico - *Dodges and smacks Jotaro lik a pimp* fuck on *casts helephant from Wizard101* Jalapeño - *Doesn'nt even flinch and gets hit by blast* Gaster - *does default forrtnite dance* Finally, I did it. *dust clears and shows Johnny Test still alive with cut on his cheek* Jirachi - Hmpph. A worthy foe. To defeat you I shall use my true ultimate form! *takes of mask revealing he is actually Bulma the whole time* Gogurt - NANNIIIIII???? Jay-Z - *Does jumping punch* what do u think about, that?? Goldilocks - I think ur a simpering fool of u think u r the only one who has secrets! *taks of mask revealing he is Sans* ur gonna have a bad time... * Uses ultimate bone attack and does ultra instinct kamehameha* Jaraxxus - YARO, KYAAAAA!m *explodes in air and falls down to ground* Gintama - *hair stops glowing* u were a strong opponent my nigga, but not strong enough *walls away* Jiren - J-jinkies... Kid... *dies of blood loss and Ebola*

[@krysle3337]

Monroe JoJo posing in the thumbnail 😌

[@Foul_Ghoul]

Oh that Cell theme So damn good

[@orangypteco8858]

Why he looks like that weird tentacle baby in Men in Black 1? Or Thanos as a baby.

[@thecartoonfaxuator6878]

The manga did it WAY better!

[@hellothere921]

I dont really watch dragon ball tbh but his character design feels off to me. Looks like a goofy purple pug. Lol. They again they did have that big ol fat pink guy. Absolute unit.

[@scynapz]

His design get's better at the end. l also don't like his initial reveal design. But as the fight goes on and dude gets swoe, he looks a hell of a lot better. kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5C9eYCMmLB0pLs

[@Gokubond_1984]

He'll yeh

[@gabrielchastain6091]

Ya know there are alot of times i rag on super most of which i only do to give the a majority of the dragon ball fandom a giant "F" you because of how they treated and still treat dragon ball GT And to see it get hated while Super gets loved for the same flaws or newer more problematic flaws Makes me pretty fuckin mad Most of the things i rag on super for i only do as a comeback when someone is shitting all over GT because GT has gotten hate for the last 10-20 years that alot of it was undeserved in my opinion But that being said while ill gladly rag on jiren and the other super antognists if someone calls the gt villains shit I never had much of a problem with jiren He wasnt the most interesting but i remember being super intrigued at Toppos warning of him in the Pre T.O.P tournament And while his backstory isnt that deep it isnt that bad and while ill rag on it for being a batman rip off like everyone else if the time calls for it I actually dont believe that His parents died and he wants to avenge them thats like alot of Protagonists backstories why is it a Batman ripoff? Jirens backstory is sad , not super original or emotional as it should be but the added music makes it abit more emotional and thats important Jiren aint that bad and when some fans have made comparisons of him such as "He is what Goku would have been without friends and only seeking strength" it makes him feel 100x more symbolic and interesting and i personally believe it Myself because its great

[@furioni333]

I like super for how fun it is, and I gotta say I had the most fun watching super. Just constant entertainment.

[@shitlord2067]

those eyes they not right i tell NOT right

[@SiggyTundra]

I would argue that Kale and Caulifla are way worse than jiren. Also ribrianne.

[@tadpoles4379]

Please trying to make db more deep than it is

[@staraptorflock3661]

Jiren is a terrible concept but an excellent execution

[@vincristine4357]

The comparison of Jiren and Saitama feels rather weak as a result of Saitama being a parody of overpowered characters . If Saitama was not written as satire he would've been a pretty bad character. This analogy for me, just shows how poorly and without self awareness Jiren was written in comparison.

[@lynbot2377]

Saitama being a parody doesn't mean there aren't genuine moments to be had with him, the aspect of him that has been used for comparison here has always been presented as something to be excited by in OPM (i.e. the subterranian dream sequence), not just entirely a joke. The point made in this video was not that Jiren is related to Saitama in any way beyond that one specific aspect and the video acknowledges Jiren's other flaws several times.

[@DimitriMonroe]

Lyn already covered this, but to reiterate i never said jiren was like saitama in any way other then being an immovable object. The analogy was simply to state the excitement saitma was searching for was the kind of rush i got in jirens final fight. When i said "one specific way" thats exactly what i meant a single aspect.

[@DogratDavis]

Vin Cristine Toei was very much self aware with Jiren. The entire ToP was structured around representing each Universe as a different exaggerated anime Trope

[@vincristine4357]

josh ch what is that representation in service of ?

[@vincristine4357]

TheSMonroeShow So the analogy was between Saitama's excitement and your (monroe's) state of watching at certain jiren moments at super ? Analogies are so fucking easy to missunderstand (or I could just be dumb) :c

[@johnford3997]

Ya know, a really good example of a bad guy done good is Iago from William Shakespeare’s Othello

[@adachi535]

Hello

[@DimitriMonroe]

Hello. I appeciate your work

[@rootfelixfake6716]

I just don't like him because of his design

[@carrion-fairy]

Have you played Dragon Ball Fighterz? it's one of my favorite games this year. also you're cute

[@TheMrchachalaka]

FREEZER FREEZER

[@ChikkinMcNuggetz]

Sorry, but I still hate Jiren and DBS. I hate how much this show disrespected a lot of the other cast members. I could rant for hours about DBS but I'll spare my rambling and just sit here and cry over how they fucked Tien, Piccolo and Vegeta over :/

[@steelblake]

Wait what? If something DBS give to old character a lot of spotlight with the exception of Tien and Yamcha, you could say they were disrepected. Piccolo is fine and Vegeta still has the most character growth in the series still in DBS

[@DimitriMonroe]

I'd argue that dbs does the exact opposite of what you're saying, it gives a lot of old characters time to shine, which was basically nonexistent toward the end of Z. Like there are several times where super just contrive reasons for older characters to be able to keep up and get some spotlight. Tien being the one exception honestly. I don't think super is particularly good overall, but that's really one of its strong points.

[@Nehezir]

I just found it to be an utterly lukewarm, milktoast experience for almost everything except the Goku Black Arc, which was decently suspenseful at times. The exception being anything Vegeta. Daddy Vegeta is best Vegeta.

[@treythegamerwolf551]

mauro banegas don't bring up Tien, Tien ain't do jack squat

[@ZarelYddrasillIngway]

What in the world are you talking about? Vegeta has only gotten to actually be a useful character in Super. In Z, he's a walking, living description for the "talk shit, get hit". He only gets to be a menacing villain once. Only to find out that Zarbon was still much stronger than him. He continues to be a worthless bitch until the Android saga, where he beats up a Jobber, Clown-droid, only to get laughably crushed by a super model. He then let's Cell become perfect so he can lose again. He does nothing until he gets magic'd up to SS2 and "wins" against a Goku who could have won and ended everything from the start. He then redeems himself by Chiaotzuing himself on Buu's weakest form, failing to accomplish anything. F u s i o n. And that's it for Z. In Super he gets to catch up and marginally surpass Goku much of the time. He's treated like a secondary main character instead of a professional jobber like he is in Z. Monroe is also correct when he says that Super actually gave other characters something to do. It wasn't just Goku and his kin saving the day while the other sub-characters curse their own uselessness. Yeah it wasn't perfect, but Super FAR surpasses the Cell and Buu arcs imo.

[@Not_cee]

Talk about gamisalas

[@uzunami810]

oWaRi dA

[@infinite_ammo]

Shitty Character decent plot device IMO

[@thepurehealer1279]

This Is kinda why I couldn't get into dragon ball... I mean it's all the same thing if the samples of the show i have watched holds water... just feels so predictable and to me seems like it comes down to who has the bigger numbers

[@Mylifestoriesmaybe]

Boi... *Ur voice*

[@Owlero]

joao santos the hormones haven't kicked in yet

[@Joker-tf8xs]

Not gonna lie I hate Dragon Ball, enjoy your videos tho. Lol.

[@M3rtyville]

Dragon Ball Super sucks

[@wolfhunter2426]

i stopped caring about DB super since the power scaling is completely broken

[@catisreckless4647]

Sorry, still sucks.

[@frogglen6350]

I stopped caring about DB after the Cell Saga

[@CalebCraft10]

I've never bothered with Dragonball. Nothing about it looks interesting in any way. Just power fantasy without diversity.

[@carrion-fairy]

Violet Rose same thing I thought until I watched the whole series a few years ago, but if you ever change your you should watch the original Dragon Ball, it's just a fun little 80s cartoon

[@ggamesgarner8027]

So I guess you do t like naruto, one piece or one punch man either. Those are worse

[@Tachyon836]

Yooo you're a cutie 💓

[@ilikethecokev2]

Not the best character, but probably had the best fight in all of the ToP