JIS Vs Phillips Screwdrivers : Mini Skills

[@harveysmith100]

For those not yet converted. Look for Vessel screwdrivers on the usual sites. Vessel are probable the largest JIS screwdriver manufacturer. They also are very good quality. The standard ones are really good but they also do one called an Impacta, which works like an impact driver but is looks just like a screwdriver. Excellent to get out screws that have been attacked by a Philips. JIS also appear on pretty much anything made in Japan, cars, printers, computers etc. Once you know, you just know.

[@MotoMirius]

Nice one Harvey. 👍. Pinned for reference. Skäl. David

[@rasmusvedel]

@@MotoMirius Skäl?

[@MotoMirius]

Indeed

[@rasmusvedel]

@@EODChaosWo1f No it isn't. That would be skål. And you're replying to a three year old comment, you really that's relevant now?

[@kings17court]

This is advice ABSOLUTELY worth listening to. They look so similar that you can't believe that there is really a worthwhile difference, but there is. The other thing to be aware of is that usually the screw head has a little dimple that verifies that you need the JIS. I really wish this difference didn't exist, but since it does, you want to have the correct screwdriver for the job.

[@MotoMirius]

The little dimple is a sign of JIS. It isn't always there but it is most of the time.

[@kings17court]

@@MotoMirius Yes, I noticed it was not on the front master cylinder screws featured in the video. I remember buying a used XR250R a while back, and I was trying to take the carb off. It was frustrating, because the screws for the bands that hold the carb to the airbox and boot that leads to the engine were stripped. As well as the float bowl screws. And if they weren't stripped, I stripped them. I thought, what the heck, this must be a cheap after market Chinese carb replacement. But no, I could clearly see the Keihin stamped right on it. At the time, I was unaware of the whole JIS thing. It really does make a difference.

[@ThEMiKeMFjOnEs]

This guy has content we need. Great information. I now understand open and closed and systems, and now, Phillips vs jis screwdrivers.

[@MotoMirius]

Thanks, much appreciated

[@donkeytrousers]

Really clear, consise and well-presented. Thank you so much. Now I understand!

[@MotoMirius]

You're very welcome! Skäl David

[@donedonager6322]

Your information had many applications! I am replacing the rotor on my car and it has JIS screws. I just happened to read someones comment on a diy video. Best accidental lesson ever!

[@MotoMirius]

Nice one! Skäl. David

[@MrSamPhoenix]

Got me Vessel Impacta a little while ago and love it. I use to take out the infamous JIS screws in brake rotors of Japanese cars like Hondas.

[@andrewstambaugh8030]

*Has anyone tried grinding the tip on a philips bit?* The primary angle is the same 26.5deg, but the JIS stops shorter / more broad at the tip. The biggest problem with the Philips bit is that its tip bottoms out, keeping it shy of contact at the outer edges along the whole outer length. The outer edges, especially the upper outer, are where most of the load is carried due to lever arm (and also distance travelled micro-flex). Because it's not contacting at the edges, the lever arm is reduced. Reducing the lever arm requires more force to produce the same amount of torque, more force acting on already reduced contact area! So bad is stacked on bad is stacked on bad. *Blunting the tip of a philips would allow it to drop in farther.* Even if you ground off slightly too much, the effect of the whole top end/outer edges seating should significantly reduce the force required and also increase the surface contact area. There is some subtle differences in overall shape of the splines, but that is so minimal that tapping a modified Philips in the 1st time should take care of that. *I think a blunted philips would immediately become a favorite tool for people with JP bikes here in the us. It's also something that can be accomplished on a road trip with stuff available at most hardware stores* (bit + a metal file) *My experience trying to get JIS bits/driver here in the US:* I went to 3 different motorcycle store/shops looking to buy JIS bits or a screwdriver. But when I asked for it, they were completely unfamiliar and gave me doubting looks as I explained what it even was! And of course they don't carry anything. That included a honda, suzuki, and kawi shop. I've even asked if their shop mechanic was in at 2 of the shops, and they gave me a "well I'v never heard of or needed such a thing".

[@MotoMirius]

Grinding will help, but it's not the best solution. Expecting to be able to buy this sort of thing locally is a uniquely US expectation - only really true for Imperial sized tooling. I recommend buying online.

[@chrisrag1346]

Ah so that's the difference between the two is it. Nicly explained there David. Think I better get me some JIS screwdrivers then 👍

[@MotoMirius]

Have a look at forum posts and the like for taking off the tops of the carbs in the XVS. Loads of moaning about screw heads chewing up. See you soon! Skäl

[@021mr5]

This is why some philips screw drivers in my uncle's tool box were shaven off at the tip. He said it was to avoid stripping the screw. I gifted him a vessel set with a spare impacta one. He's oldschool and really appreciated it.

[@MotoMirius]

Very nice!

[@JamesE707]

Great little video! The same must apply to Japanese bicycle parts? Shimano for one! Also, as an electronics person, I have found no Pozi nor Philips screw driver that fits (properly) any Japanese made Communication Receiver or HiFi separates. I have had to resort to flat head screw drivers to 'fit across' the head to get it off safely. Cheers! PS - my old film cameras too!

[@MotoMirius]

Indeed it’s a Japanese thing! Same for cameras etc. Skäl. David

[@GTsGarage]

Sound advice, the difference is amazing, especially on those carb screws that everyone minces out.

[@MotoMirius]

They do don’t they and then blame the screws! Skäl GT

[@paulhartwell8460]

Hi David; I have bought a set of JIS screwdrivers; well worth it. Do you know a reasonable place to get JIS screws from most sellers only have philips or pozi drive? Many Thanks Paul.

[@MotoMirius]

Hi Paul. That’s great news. I’ve not bought often so I can’t really comment on prices. I will be replacing that master cylinder screw on my next order from Wemoto. They sell that sort of thing but it’s buried in their website. For other screws I’ve just Googled JIS screws UK and accepted that buying a small quantity is always going to be a bit pricey. Skäl. David

[@dboyyarris4811]

You didn't come back for your car washing. Lol👍

[@trevorjameson3213]

Some of the newer Japanese bikes are using regular hex head bolts instead of those stupid screws. I guess they have been doing that for a long time now, but I can remember back in the '70's and '80's, the Japanese bikes were using screws even on the clutch cover and mag cover, which was awful! We never heard of JIS back then, so we ended up ruining all the screws and replacing them with allen bolts or hex head bolts.

[@MotoMirius]

Yes I remember everyone replacing the screws with bolts because we didn’t have JIS screwdrivers. Modern bikes use a lot of different fastenings depending on how automated the production lines are.

[@matthewjackson3034]

Chewed my screws on my clutch switch yesterday, had to break it off to get it off. New switch on order and have ordered some JIS screwdrivers.

[@MotoMirius]

Well worth the investment!

[@Jackdaw5]

Good video. After 40 years of bodgering up innumerable Honda screws, I've ordered some JIS screwdrivers.

[@MotoMirius]

Yeah, I think we've all been there!

[@garryhills8648]

Thanks David just bought some great help !!!

[@MotoMirius]

Cheers Garry. Hope you are keeping well.

[@donewithutube]

That explains what I wasn't understanding. Thank you.

[@MotoMirius]

You are very welcome. Skäl David

[@Vladimir-hq1ne]

BTW, beware of micro screws - Canon, Nikon uses JIS only! That's quite a way to destroy your precious lens if you will use Philips... Not only bikes then ;)

[@MotoMirius]

Oh indeed. It’s Japan Industry Standard not Japanese Bike Industry Standard! Skäl. David

[@Jim-ie6uf]

Most JiS screws have a dot on the head so you'll know. I find the JIS screwdrivers work well on Phillips too

[@MotoMirius]

Yes, they do, to both. Most JIS screws have the dot - but not all. Really little point in owning a Philips screwdriver.

[@x_gangsa]

Thank you... So clearable with your video

[@MotoMirius]

Glad it was helpful!

[@martinwilkinson2344]

Chewed my brake master cylinder screws up just like that and had to drill them out. Mind you, someone had torqued them down stupid tight before I got to them.

[@MotoMirius]

I think we’ve all been there. Sometimes they do corrode and seize as well just so annoying though isn’t it Martin. Skäl. David

[@1silvervespa]

Only been getting stuff from Japan for How long now ? Use the Bike's Tools .

[@MotoMirius]

Bike tools are better than using Phillips, and form a great starting point for a new rider.

[@tommytwotoes3880]

FYI, JSI screws have a small dot on the head of the screw.

[@MotoMirius]

In almost all cases yes - but not always and I do mention this in the video.

[@SalmanKhan-pk5wo]

This needs many more views!

[@MotoMirius]

Thanks Salman, appreciated. Skäl David

[@SalmanKhan-pk5wo]

@@MotoMirius You're welcome Mr. David! Quality content is always deserving of appreciation and viewership!

[@garryhills8648]

I know what you mean David!! I am just in the profess of spraying my dt250 mx and ts100 frames. Have you got a FB group

[@MotoMirius]

Never ends does it? Just a page on FB.

[@V1K1NGofDOOM]

Can you use a JIS screwdriver on philips screws?

[@MotoMirius]

Many people say yes. I prefer to use the right screwdriver - but if you are only carrying one I’d choose the JIS.

[@OjStudios]

JIS fits philips better than philips itself. It's because philips is made to cam out, JIS is made to apply "infinite" torque.

[@garryhills8648]

Yes great David !! I hope you are too!!! What project you on at the moment?

[@MotoMirius]

Too many projects, all at once! This weekend I’m back on the Bandit with some repairs and if I have time some upgrades to the cockpit. My instagram and Facebook tend to be a bit more real time because video processing takes a long time!

[@softailfun]

Nicely explained mate. Have never been aware of JIS drivers. Just out of interest, you explained well the negative effects of using Phillips on a JIS screw..... What about a JIS driver on a Phillips screw, any detriment here (or am I being a bit thick?!)? Cheers mate.

[@MotoMirius]

Cheers Stan. Never tried it to be honest but I’d think you’d have the same seating issue because the sharp corners of the JIS screwdriver would bottom out on the curved inner corners of the screw.

[@psdaengr911]

I've tried it. JIS drivers works better with Phillips screws than Phillips drivers do. (Better at applying torque without slippage) Screw drivers apply max torque at the outer-most part of the recess. Phillips drivers can cause cam-out damage to Phillips screws, not just JUS screws. A JIS driver of the same numerical size as a Phillips sits lower within a Phillips screwhead and makes a more positive contact with the head farther away from the tip, where torque is greatest. Because it is cut square, it doesn't push up out of that head as you turn the driver. The only risk is over-torqung the screw and shearing off the entire head.

[@softailfun]

P Schmied Thanks for that fella. Looks like I know what my next driver set will be. 👍🏻

[@MotoMirius]

That’s good to know. Perhaps I can finally throw away those Philips screwdrivers and bits. Skäl

[@oklahomahank2378]

I agree. The JIS works better on Phillips than the Phillips do. But the other way around is bad.

[@1966johnnywayne]

Sure, now that I know this I have a Japanese bike with hex head bits...or are they some Japanese variant of the hex head? 😒 To add my bit to this information (pun intended)...for those that do the occasional drywall work, there are are now 'reduced' head Phillips bits designed specifically for drywall work. These bits are labelled PR2 or P2R, depending on the manufacturer as opposed to the more common PH2 Phillips head bit. Skäl.

[@MotoMirius]

Japanese and other makes are often built with torx - because these are easier for the automated machines to install compared to more traditional screw heads.

[@1966johnnywayne]

@@MotoMirius Just went out to the garage to verify...my new NC750X uses hex head bolts for the engine and hex head cap screws everywhere else. Maybe Honda does it differently for different markets. Either way, I'm glad the Phillips fasteners are gone.

[@tinks43]

Great advise as always Dave! 👍🏻

[@MotoMirius]

Skäl Dave. 👍

[@JETZcorp]

I wish everyone could have just settled on Allen or Robertson. First thing I wrenched on was Husqvarna and Maico dirt bikes, both of which make liberal use of Allen heads. Never stripped anything. Deal with heavier-duty stuff with regular hex head bolts, and now you might hurt threads but the bolt head is always fine with 6-point sockets. And then. The wild world of Phillips/JIS (apparently). Suddenly every screw head is stripped already, and no wonder because it seems as if all these heads are made of lead or hot mercury. On my latest Kawasaki project, I've been systematically taking all the bolts to the hardware store and replacing them with Allen equivalents. I'll have to get some JIS drivers and see if that helps. It's ridiculous that the rusty corroded head bolts came right off, but the air filter is permanently attached with these stupid screws.

[@MotoMirius]

Japanese bikes made liberal use of JIS as case screws and such - I suspect if your Kawa doesn't have them except in the airbox it's because they have previously been replaced. In almost every case I've seen complaints that the screw heads are soft it's the result of someone having used a Phillips into a JIS screw - imagine if someone had tried to take a hex head out with a slightly oversized socket and rounded it off - when you try the right sized socket it just rounds off more and seems 'soft.' Sadly I don't think that the Japanese are going to retool their entire industry and stop using JIS (although to be fair I guess they are now all Torx which is just as bad). Skäl David

[@JETZcorp]

@@MotoMirius It's not just the airbox (the bike doesn't even have an airbox). It's everywhere except the things big enough to require a half-inch drive socket. Side covers, ignition, fenders, everything. A few we've had to drill out and it's like drilling through cheap aluminum. They're JIS, and they're made of crap metal.

[@MotoMirius]

@@JETZcorp Yes, that is exactly what I would expect. In the Eighties people would replace all of the JIS with allens because even the dealers didn't have JIS tools which means any time anyone worked on the bike with Phillips bits then the screws chewed out. If you run a finger over a JIS screw and you can feel a little four pointed crown in the middle then someone has used a Phillips on it. Wrong tools will round off and chew fasteners. Of course, if something has been in thirty years, there is a good chance of damage even with the right tools - I'm not a fan of putting high torque through a JIS because of corrosion even with the right tools! But same issue applies with Torx.

[@dhpbear2]

1:27 - That little curved section is the EXACT reason why the Phillips system SUCKS! I came here after disassembling a wall-bed with 100s of these! They STRIP very easily AND there's no positive seating; when trying to unscrew some of them; the screwdriver gets 'cammed out' due to that DAMN tapering! Roberson would be *infinitely better*! And, no , I'm not using JIS anywhere!

[@MotoMirius]

The cam out is a nice design feature but for many applications it just isn't the best choice! Skäl David

[@cristianmitran8620]

This was informative. I came across this video for other reason but it was useful, though.

[@MotoMirius]

Glad it was useful. Skäl David

[@springy-2112]

Good job Dave ,then there's Pozi to throw in the mix 👍☮❤

[@MotoMirius]

Indeed, and torx and half a dozen other oddities. Skäl Springy

[@FindecanorNotGmail]

Pozi is what I had been looking for more info about, but didn't know the name of ...

[@MotoMirius]

Easily recognisable by the lines on the screw heads but mostly found on self tapping screws and not so much on bikes. I’m pretty sure there will be examples out there though. Skäl. David

[@bobsgunk1871]

@@MotoMirius Yes, J.I.S. usually have a small dimple on the screw head.

[@suntzuwarsword1964]

thank you

[@MotoMirius]

You're welcome

[@nigelwilson8331]

I've just got myself a honda 400.4.1975.heard about jis drivers and yes they do work its not a myth. Not expensive and good I any tool box. R

[@MotoMirius]

Very nice!

[@1pcfred]

Throw those Japanese screws in the bin.

[@MotoMirius]

Better than the Chinese ones you buy in the shops to replace them!

[@1pcfred]

@@MotoMirius the Chinese are constantly improving. I am old enough to remember when Japanese goods were regarded as that cheap import crap from the far east. When I was young I bought a set of nail punches in a five and dime with Japan stamped on them and they're made out of metal soft as gum.

[@MotoMirius]

@@1pcfred I'm old enough to remember it too, but it's rarely true now. Yes, the Chinese make some products that are as good as or better than anyone else - but average bolts sold by hardware stores and suppliers are largely sourced from China and (unless you are paying premium prices for good quality stock) quality can be quite abysmal.

[@1pcfred]

@@MotoMirius I know that the perception of Japanese goods has changed radically over time. The Chinese make products to specs. If you want the worst they can supply that. That's what hardware stores are ordering too. They are interested in making a profit.

[@MotoMirius]

@@1pcfred Everyone makes products to specs - always have and always will. What doesn't change regardless of specs is that a poorly fitting tool will always damage the fitting it is used on. You can replace all the fittings or you can just use the right tool - the choice is open to everyone.

[@manny_f]

Phillips screw drivers are absolute rubbish. Just ordered a set of Vessel JIS drivers, should have sourced these like 15 years ago. What a difference! I don't know why anybody would use Phillips screws/drivers in this day and age.

[@MotoMirius]

Phillips are fine when used for the purpose they were intended for. Sadly they are used where they should never be used!

[@coreyferguson401]

Not just motorcycles. Every japanese electronic piece of equipment uses JIS. $200,000 Sony Broadcast Camera chewed and ruined. I would like to see every screwdriver marked PHILIPS 0000,000,00,0,1,2,3,4. and JIS 0000,000,00,0,1,2,3,4. but....THEY DON"T. DRIVES ME CRAZY!!!! The manufacturers are not helping with this problem. They can mark anything these days. DO IT!!!!!!

[@coreyferguson401]

A great company that has recently bought Moody Tools Inc RI listened to me and offers the JIS minature screw drivers 0000 to 0. Made in USA. Moody Tools - Great 1st class company.

[@MotoMirius]

It would be good to see sizing but if it’s made in Japan it should be assumed that it’s JIS. I don’t really understand why it seems to be such a secret! Skäl. David

[@seniorrider9337]

@@MotoMirius I believe it is not so much a secret as people refusing to believe there is a difference because they look so much alike, unless you get out a magnifying glass. I had a discussion with one fellow who claimed to have restored many goldwings and never needed a JIS screwdriver because the bikes had all phillips. SURE they do! Yep, in the 70's most bike shops had small plastic bags of allens designated for all the covers. My 97 Virago came with allens on the engine, JIS elsewhere. Use a phillips on the carbs and prepare to dish out some serious cash!