Screws - Phillips or Pozidriv ?

[@hmedwards3]

There is also JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) which is neither Phillips or Pozidriv, but looks similar. Used on Japanese cars, Motorcycles and other Japanese products. JIS screws have a dot on the head for identification.

[@seankearney6915]

I came here to say that too. Proper JIS screwdriver saves ruining small screws on Japanese items. e.g. Shimano Bicycle gears. Looking forward to an AF, Whitworth, BA explanation!

[@losipoop]

you can grind the tip off of a phillips driver to use it on JIS fasteners in a pinch. it gets rid of the tendency to pop out of socket as phillips heads are designed to do when too much torque is applied. i grind the tip off all my phillips drivers for that reason alone, but am also able to use them on my Japanese bikes.

[@Hermiel]

Ha, you beat me to it. Yeah, JIS.

[@dosgos]

But the dot is not always there. JIS is popular in laptops also.

[@TheErador]

@@dosgos so much this.

[@gingerelvis]

Then there is working on old houses where you need to take every screwdriver you own just to take a door off it's hinges

[@uBmaniac]

Just a straight edge and a hammer ;-)

[@marcmeyer5643]

thank u sir..

[@scatcat1994]

I angled grinded a flat onto some stripped screws the other day

[@leepicciotto]

Or a relatively new house where the homeowner thought they'd fix everything with whatever they had lying around

[@joinedupjon]

Was aware of the difference but tbh I usually just graunch them in like a brute anyway.

[@cheeseschrist2303]

Yes, "brute force and ignorance" as Big Clive says. 💪💪

[@Zeekos126]

Simply one of the greatest videos ever uploaded onto youtube 😁

[@EpicWinz]

I concur :)

[@bluewanderer9903]

Definitely

[@RCDriftChaser]

Indubitably

[@martinda7446]

??? I don't get it...

[@southerncharity7928]

Not enough cats or screaming adults acting like toddlers to make it to the no.1 spot

[@markmiwurdz202]

Sometime ago TV motoring pundit James May made a series of programmes called "The Re-Assembler". In one of the episodes James re-assembled a Japanese made Tokai Stratocaster copy guitar. Mr May was so pleased to find that his treasured vintage JIS cross-head screwdriver was the right tool for the task in hand. And James did explain to camera the subtle difference between JIS ( the "dot" pressed into the 'head) and other cross-head screw patterns.

[@Newmachinist]

Hi John. Here in Canada the screw type of choice is the Robertson which has a square indentation in the top (four points). The driver has, obviously a square head at the end of the bit. This was the only common screw form in which you can insert the driver bit into the screw head and hold in any position. It was designed in 1908 by a PL Robertson, a Canadian of Scottish decent but born in Canada. The screw was superior to any other on the market and used extensively in the second world war. Henry Ford realized it's superiority and tried to buy the patent rights which Robertson refused to sell. Ford was upset that Robertson would not sell the patent and started to use the inferior Phillips screws instead. Since the Robertson screw patents would not be sold the Americans developed the Torx style screws which have a six pointed head circa 1967 and is also an excellent screw system comparable to the Robertson but not very common. The Robertson patents etc were bought and sold but tightly held in Canada for years until the big money hungry conglomerates made a big chunk of change selling it to the Chinese. Send me your address and I will send you some screws and drivers to experiment with.

[@samithmadushan450]

Hello sir, can u please send me some screw driver bit set. i live in sri lanka. in here they are very very expensive.

[@ShadowzGSD]

I really wish manufacturers would pick just one when making things, i have had to use pozi, philips and torx on the same item before.

[@BenCos2018]

same tbh It's defn a pain haha

[@CrusaderSports250]

Now add in tri wing and square pin (seen on a lot of Canadian stuff!), to name but two more for good measure and we are well away☺.

[@goodun2974]

@@CrusaderSports250 " square pin" are more properly called Robertson screws ---- invented by a Canadian guy named Robertson. Henry Ford liked them enough to consider using them for automobile assembly but didn't like the idea of being dependent on a single Canadian source for such fasteners because Robertson refused to license the manufacturing of his invention to anyone else.

[@goodun2974]

@Schwalbe262 , no, call 'em Torx, because there are also 5 point " star" screws, used in electronics assembly. Torx have 6 points.

[@Basement-Science]

Pretty sure most of the hate for cross screws is actually down to this. And people using the wrong size of course.

[@volvo09]

Yeah. As soon as i feel a tight cross head i immediately find the tightest driver that fits. My old boss hated cross head because he always used the wrong (smaller) size driver in any screw. I tried explaining it to him but he just didn't get it. Which i don't understand because it always caused him so much grief getting stuck extra hours trying to get a machine out of a rack with 50 cent shitty screwdriver. Thankfully that still left meat for a proper driver to hammer into, but DAMN did that piss me off.

[@Basement-Science]

@@volvo09 The "problem" there is that unlike most other types, cross bits actually allow incorrect sizes and even screwing at an angle without damage, at least for low-torque applications. So some people just constantly use them wrong and dont realize it. Pretty much all other types will not tolerate any kind of wrong driver or use at all. If you use a Torx size 15 in a size 20 screw, it doesnt work at all. If you try to use it at an angle, both the screw head and the bit immediately break. Same if you dont apply enough pressure.

[@johnburns4017]

@@volvo09 _"My old boss hated cross head because he always used the wrong (smaller) size driver in any screw. I tried explaining it to him but he just didn't get it."_ Match number to number. Could he count? 😊

[@5roundsrapid263]

@@Basement-Science I have used Torx bits for hex screws in a pinch. You can’t do it too much or it’ll strip the screw head, though.

[@rpavlik1]

Well, that and that Phillips screws were designed intentionally to cam out as a method of limiting torque of early power drivers, apparently.

[@johnmusgrave3179]

No wonder the Canadians love their Roberton square drives. No camming out and no confusion. Same argument applies to Torx. I was aware of the Philips/Pozi difference but this is a good video for anyone who isn't.

[@djdjukic]

Thanks for sharing, it's always frustrating to work on furniture or construction where someone had previously mangled all the Pozidriv screws with a Philips bit and a cordless drill set to max torque. Conversely, in computers, most of the time the only driver you need is a Philips #2... Which doesn't stop folks who once assembled an Ikea table jamming their Pozidrive in there, or even a flathead if that's all they've got.

[@josephe3697]

According to our friends at Wikipedia, the Phillips head is actually designed to cam out, thus limiting the torque applied. Sadly, they cam out long before you can do any damage to the screw, and also long before your screw can cut threads into a shank-sized hole in oak.

[@Basement-Science]

Not if you apply enough pressure.

[@whitcwa]

@@Basement-Science And use lube and pre-drill the hole to the correct size. If it isn't going in you're doing something wrong (is what she said).

[@tookitogo]

Yet the original patent filing doesn’t mention this “feature”, so it’s highly likely that this was actually a retroactive attempt to market its weakness as a supposed advantage.

[@Georgggg]

​@@Basement-Science Yes, this "feature" makes you to press into screwdriver, which feels like doing at least half of the screwdriver job, instead of automating it for real. This is very tiring and so annoying when screw is in tight space, where you can't properly apply force.

[@Basement-Science]

@@Georgggg not every screw head is suitable for every application. Its as simple as that.

[@andygardner9219]

It never ceased to amaze me people didn’t realise there was a difference. And I’m talking about so called tradesmen I have worked with. Superb vid .

[@fritznien]

did not know,do not care. i will go on using robertson screws!!!!

[@AngDavies]

when younger I did know the difference, but always thought pozi was an "extension" of phillips (it's not, the angles are completely different, totally different standard) I.e. that a pozi screw was just a phillips screw with extra wings you can use with the special bits to gain extra torque. Like those hybrid Phillips/flathead screws- best done with a phillips, but can be used with a flathead in a pinch. Wouldn't be surprised if those hybrid screws were behind most of the confusion tbh, at least for Phillips screwdriver-> pozi screw. Especially as Phillips is more common.

[@manganiphiri4331]

Imagine that, I once had a heated argument over this with some of my colleagues. Some people don't know their tools.

[@goodun2974]

@@manganiphiri4331 , I used to yell at my boss for stripping posidrive screwheads by using the wrong Philips head --- he was always very particular about telling us how and how not to do certain things, so, turnabout is fair play!

[@thabood]

100% agree. I noticed and learned the difference within a month of labouring. Tried discussing it with the 55-year-old "tradesman" i was working for; he was clueless and didnt give two shits.

[@davepusey]

It should also be noted that Phillips (the screws) is a completely different company from Philips (the electronics manufacturer)

[@video99couk]

And a different amount of Ls. But many people refer to the electronics manufacturer with two Ls. Interestingly enough the electronics manufacturer have tended to use Torx screws more than cross-head screws.

[@johncoops6897]

It should be noted that Dave who made this (stupid) comment is a completely different person from Dave Kindig, the car customiser on TV. Dave Pusey is also a completely different person from Dave Grohl, who is a Rock Singer.

[@charanvantijn541]

Clear, concise, well explained, what more can I say? Thanks!

[@johncoops6897]

Well, I can say that he mispronounces "Posi-Driv". It's Posi -DRIVE ("Positive Drive") not "Posi-Drivvv"

[@MrBanzoid]

Thanks for the comprehensive run down on foss head screws and drivers. I've noticed that a few people are switching to Torx head screws and fasteners now.

[@quartzlump]

One thing I love about Miele is that right since the 1980s, they've just used torx more or less everywhere. Absolutely no mistaking which piece you need of using one of those horrendous kits you allude to at the end. The world world be a much nicer place, if the only two fasteners you needed were torx screws and hex cap machine screws.

[@Anvilshock]

Step 1: There are 14 competing standards. Step 2: "We need a new standard to unify and replace them all!" Step 3: There are 15 competing standards.

[@stakkerhmnd]

Apart from all the Pozi screws they use. The Pozis were only around £2 each to replace all the rusted up ones in a Miele appliance. Apart from that, Miele do use Torx.

[@tookitogo]

If it were up to me, ALL screws would be Torx. It’s such a superior drive in every way...

[@bimble7240]

@@tookitogo Only 2 things against Torx. The bit often sticks in the fastener after tightening (also a problem with robertson to some extent) and if they are painted over it is a right pain scraping the paint out of the splines to fit the bit in. In this respect both Robertson (square socket) and hex (Allen) headed screws are easier to scrape out. Another advantage of Robertson is they still grip when the driver is not exactly aligned to the screw. With Pozidrive I just hammer in a philips driver as the old paint takes up the slack and makes a tight fit to get the screw out.

[@____________________________.x]

It’s all pozi on their hoovers, some buried in deep holes, Miele get some design things really wrong

[@tinytonymaloney7832]

I remember back in the early 80's on sites, all we had were slot headed screws, before the days of battery drills as well. We used to have pump drivers, Stanley and CK were like the proper makes, if you couldn't afford that (about £30 I think) you got some unmarked foreign make. Many a time where the flat driver slipped off the screw head and into your finger tip, usually on a freezing cold day 😭. Not quite sure I remember the cross headed screws appearing TBO. I just remember using them and how good they are with a battery drill to wind in. Interesting vid that. 👍

[@Basement-Science]

I think in the 1920s Ford was replacing slot head screws for the same reasons. I really dont get how it took everyone else this long.

[@danielstokoe6564]

@ tiny tony Maloney, bang right mate slotted are a nightmare aarrgghh ! Tell ya what though the T bits (e.g spax ) grip the best out of them all including pz and ph , never slip .

[@PaulSteMarie]

@@danielstokoe6564 Yeah, Torx is clearly the way to go. Robertson aren't bad-too bad the inventor never came to terms with Henry Ford.

[@danielstokoe6564]

@@PaulSteMarie where are you from mate ?

[@johnbowkett5920]

And carpenters sharpening their Diston saws by hand .

[@PaulSteMarie]

The answer is Torx, of course. When you said the Phillips was seated solidly and wasn't going to slip out, that was good for a laugh. Give enough torque on a Philips head, and the drive will always pop out. Not really an issue for electrical work, but when using a fastener for a mechanical purpose, Philips is pretty much my least favorite. Pozi is a bit better, but it's still not a Torx head. I'm a bit surprised you didn't mention Frearson heads. Aren't those the home team favorite, just like Robertson in Canada? There's actually a #4 for Phillips. Don't know about posi-driv. I had an old Atlas 12-in lathe that used #4 Phillips fillister head machine screws to hold the front apron on.

[@danielsanichiban]

Philips was designed to slip out, so they can't be over-torqued. Pozi came into existence because the torque limiting was an annoyance

[@Warpreacher]

28 years on this earth. Many of them spent rounding off screws. This video is blessed, out of the darkness and into the light.

[@pqrstzxerty1296]

Use a hammer to nail in the screw its quicker.

[@SaxJockey]

@@pqrstzxerty1296 Claw hammer to remove it 😂.

[@stillman5733]

For the sake of completeness, there is a number 4 in both Phillips and Pozidriv which I used to encounter in my job 40+ years ago. I couldn't find either of the No.4 screwdrivers in my local UK tool shops, so had to sell my soul to the Snap-on Tools man for one of each, which I still have, but rarely find a use for these days. Cheers.

[@garethblake3941]

Hi, Very interesting video, l am as a Brit. presently living in the Americans and strangely enough you will usually find that all cross-head screws regardless of type will invariably be referred to as Philips headed screws. If you request a PZ type driver invariably you will get a blank look even though they are available or they will just say you mean a Philips driver. Keep up the good work and stay safe.

[@Rosscoff2000]

Torx has become very common in UK construction work, especially in the larger sizes of wood screw (5/6mm). The boxes tend to contain a fresh driver bit in each as well. Much easier to use, especially with powered drivers.

[@1992jamo]

Oh really? Man that is so damn good to hear. I've been saying for ages that Torx will only go mainstream once it's used widely in construction. I kinda thought that it would be hard to convince construction companies, as Pozi tends to go in no problem, is a bit cheaper, and it's not the construction companies problem if it cams out when someone tries to remove it in 10 years.

[@Rosscoff2000]

@@1992jamo Yes, it's a good trend. As they get more and more used of course the price difference drops - they don't cost any different to make, it's just the size of market that's running any price difference. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313488928253

[@fraserbell2716]

I work on aircraft and we use offset torqset bits and screws. They have great contact grip and because off the offset, it's also impossible to apply more torque while installing the screws than removing them. Making it always easy to remove them :)

[@mrld3005]

I work on groundcraft and we use 1 dollar tips and when they wear off we just toss them away.

[@Orgakoyd]

Can I ask what you mean by “offset torqset bits and screws”? Do you have a link to this type of screw/bit?

[@EVnewbie]

I just redid my roof with Torx T25 for the wood and hex heads for the sheet metal screws (metal roofing) All hail the Torx! IMHO, the Philips, Posi and JIS made such a mess of things I avoid them all and use Torx whenever possible and no more cam out, no more worn out impact driver bits and I always know that a Torx is a Torx. Some people call Torx "star drive" but no matter what you call it, it works very well and no worries about tearing up bits.

[@grahameblankley3813]

Thanks John very informative, I'm 73 learning all the time!

[@Hermiel]

Ikea is-or at least was-notorious for supplying Pozidriv screws with furniture but referring to them as Philips in the instructions and providing only Philips drivers in their ubiquitous orange tool kits. I picked up on this in my early 20's (I'm in my 40's now) and set out to equip myself with PZ drivers and bits. I was determined that neither my friends nor I would ever strip another Ikea screw and gouge our walls or new furniture. Since them I've also take on an educational crusade of sorts. In the last 25 years, every time I've been tasked with assembling Ikea furniture I've felt the cognitive dissonance kick in, as well as a compulsion to take a few moments and email (and later tweet) Ikea a few sentences of reprimand. I can't say for sure that it was due entirely to my masterful persuasive tactics, but Ikea did eventually start including Pozidriv bits in their orange clamshells, at least in Toronto. Their instructions are still misleading, but I cherish my one step towards victory.

[@tookitogo]

Well done!!!

[@dan_]

How have I gone over 30 years without knowing this. I had to double check the upload date to make sure I hadn't just accidentally clicked on an April fools video. It seems I'm not alone with my ignorance though, thankfully!

[@benbaselet2026]

I find it very odd why that is the case.. the different bits are rather obvious.

[@splodders]

Wow! I honestly didn’t know that people didn’t know!

[@booshallmighty]

I thought everyone knew this but obviously John had realised that not everyone does. I had a similar thing about 15 years ago. I didn't know that that SDS drill stood for Slotted Drive System. The drill bit had slots to make for a much better hammer action. I wasn't told this, I had to look into it because I kept seeing SDS all the time, it was driving me nuts. No pun intended.

[@TheErador]

That and the actual tool has a proper linear hammer action as opposed to the more vibratory action of a standard 'hammer' drill

[@renrutmat]

SDS = Stecken Drehen Sichern (Insert Twist Secure). Developed in Germany by Bosch and Hilti. Internationally Bosch refer to SDS as Special Direct System.

[@booshallmighty]

@@renrutmat Yeah, in the UK we refrain from using the word “Special” for anything. Josie Marino made the mistake of calling himself special. The ridicule follows him to this day. Most of us know (or may not no), SDS = Slotted Drive System. We know SDS bits by the Slots on the shank. We also know SDS will fit in a normal drill but not the other way round. We all all just say SDS and recognise the bits by the slots. If you went in to Screwfix or any UK hardware / DIY store asking for special drill bits they will have no clue. They may however say, ‘Don’t think you’re special! On every subsequent visit. Oh, important to say - SDS drills are amazing. Well done Bosch.

[@neilmartin83]

Fun fact - Philips are designed to be fastened by machines on assembly lines so they cam-out without over-tightening the fastener or mullering the bit/head.

[@manuelurdaneta8649]

That is true, for mechanical screwdrives the Phillps is better

[@Zmej420BlazeIt]

This explains why I had to drill so many out (or because I didn't know the difference between pz and phillips, lol)

[@ritecomment2098]

@James M it was in a time before torque controlled hand tools where you could measure the torque and angle for a fastener.

[@johncoops6897]

@@ritecomment2098 - Nope, they are still used in their BILLIONS every single day. Drywall plaster screw drivers work using that exact method, except they use a physical stop to help cam out the bit, rather than simply using torque to push it out.

[@astrazenica7783]

Why they're so shit for DIY

[@RavuAlHemio]

It is unfortunate that two incompatible standards of basically the same shape (three if you count JIS as well) succeeded in the market. I wonder how much damage and additional costs the resulting confusion has caused.

[@benbaselet2026]

A huge amount. Many very expensive executive yachts have been purchased with the money spent damaging equipment unnecessarily.

[@Marcel_Germann]

Pozidriv is based on Phillips, it's a more improved version. It can handle higher torque than Phillips. The badest thing is if you got a device were they mixed up screws with PZ and PH head. You can actually use a Phillips screwdriver on a PZ screw without damaging it. But you must be careful with the applied torque, some intuition and finesse in your hands. Use a screwdriver and not an impact driver or something like that. So nothing for people which we call "Grobmotoriker" in German...(person with inadequate fine motor skills).

[@fancymcclean6210]

I never knew this. Will check out screws/screwdrivers to make sure they match in future. Flaxen Saxon.

[@orangetruckman]

Thank you for making this video! I never knew that there was a difference between the two. I’m considered a jack of all trades, master of none and never was taught or discovered this basic tool information 🤦🏼‍♂️

[@edwardmckenna7829]

Hi John, nice video. Maybe you could show the Pozi Slot screwdriver as well. It's used specifically on terminal screws, MCB RCD RCBO etc. If you look carefully at the terminal screw you will see what resembles a Pozi head with a slot. I must admit to thinking that was to enable the use of a flat head or a Pozi. The Hilti set of insulated screwdrivers include this type.

[@PenzancePete]

Thankyou for this. I've been trying to explain this to people for years.

[@andrewd762]

You used to get Supadriv (maybe Super drive... can't remember) which were also crosshead type screws. They were around in the UK in the 1980s. I remember they were easier to work with because the screwdriver was less prone to camming out of the screw head under high torque. Not sure if they still make screwheads in that form factor but I've still got a couple of the screwdrivers somewhere.

[@SimonZerafa]

Until you come across a JIS screw and need one of those screwdrivers. And yes those are found in the UK and worldwide.

[@reddevil9554]

I wish I'd have known this small detail years ago. I found out the hard way. I was using a Pozidriv drill bit with Phillips screws once and it turned what should have been a quick and easy half-hour job into a few hours' hard work. I really had no idea at the time, I thought they were basically the same. It would have been easier to do it all by hand; instead I ended up chewing a lot of the screwheads up and had to keep doing it again. Lesson learned and blisters gained with then having to remove lots of damaged Phillips screws with a regular screwdriver with what was left of all those chewed-up screwheads.

[@akdenyer]

Hi John, A very good system liked here in Canada is Robertson. It looks very simple as it is just square. However using the correct driver the screw locks on and you can use it to insert the screw. I am from England as you know and did come across these in England on some Canadian equipment. However only used in Canada not even in the US. I am a convert and use them a lot in my equipment. The problem with PoziDriv and Philips is that they are very easily confused and getting the correct drivers can be difficult as very few people know the difference. There are a few other versions as well. In my experience Philips were mainly on actual equipment like televisions and radios and PoziDriv were used more on wood screws. Now we have a myriad of different drives like Torx, male and female, security Torx, and triangle drive used on fisher toys to name a few.

[@bertblankenstein3738]

Yep, living in Canada for most of my life I've come to like the Robertson screws. I honestly think that nobody here would go in to a hardware store looking for posidriv. Phillips heads are used for drywall screws but beyond that you'll get Robertson heads and some torx.

[@marhar2]

Learned a lot from this video... And from the smart commenters, I learned that Posidriv and JIS were not the same thing! Thanks, smart commenters!

[@reginaldgraves1684]

Thank you very much. I had wondered why I have a set with 24 driver "bits", I assumed that there was no standard and just tried to find one that didn't wobble on the screw head. Now I know how to categorise all the drivers and screws scattered around in my shed and marry them up correctly when required. Subscribed.

[@Bin216]

The #2 size can be used even on surprisingly small screws. I’ve had computer servers where the side panel (barely thick enough to take the countersink head) was held in place by very small screws which the best driver to remove and replace them was a Phillips #2 (screwed into a punched hole in a slightly thicker sheet metal part). A Phillips #1 driver would cam out unless pressed down hard where as a Phillips #2 driver fit perfectly to the point the screw was retained on an unmagnetised driver after removal. (Edit: spelling).

[@benbaselet2026]

Sounds like you had the wrong bit there.

[@whitcwa]

Conversely, a damaged #2 screw can sometimes be turned by a #1 bit because it reaches undamaged metal.

[@tookitogo]

The important message here is that the *size of the screw head doesn’t tell you what size bit it needs.* (It is NOT correct to imply a #2 driver is somehow universal; it is not.)

[@robroysyd]

The Phillips system was designed to prevent over torqueing with powered drivers. The idea is that with too much torque the driver will cam out. Personally I prefer the Pozidriv or for wood screws the Robertson as the screw locks well onto the driver which is handy when up a ladder.

[@arisskarpetis]

Yep. The cam out feature should have been mentioned

[@danielcarroll3358]

The only problem I had with Pozidriv was finding a good regular screwdriver, not a bit kit. I ended up buying one the next time I was in Köln. I'm in California and nowadays I would just do an Internet search. :)

[@drojf]

Pozidriv screws are not that popular where we live, but my dad somehow had some. I watched this video a couple days before helping him with some DIY stuff where he tried to use them, so I could tell him that he had the wrong driver for it, thanks!

[@nimbas9824]

The head of the Phillips screws is designed to permit the driver head to cam out whenever excessive force is applied. The Pozidriv was patented by GKN Screws and Fasteners in 1962. It was designed to allow more torque to be applied and greater engagement than Phillips drives. As a result, the Pozidriv is less likely to cam out. It is similar to, and compatible with, the Supadriv screw drive

[@mikeZL3XD7029]

I gave up on Philips and PZ screws some time ago, I find the #2 Square Drive (Robertson) screws are really good and you can hold one of these screws on the end of the driver if you're installing things like light fittings to a ceiling. You can buy a very strange type of screw over here in NZ, called a Supadrive screw, apparently you can use any type of screwdriver in these screws, although the ones I've seen, seem to fit none of the drivers I have and they are equally sloppy.

[@Ilovebrownbreadtoast]

I often have to repair UPVC windows at work. The locks and hinges are usually fixed with phillips head screws and I cringe so hard when I’m with someone else and they go at them with an impact driver, fitted with a PZ2 screwdriver bit. You just know it’s going to rip the screw to shreds and either make it a right pain to get out or put back in. I always have a bit holder with a PH2 bit in the toolbag. Better to swap it over quickly than fart around trying to make a PZ2 work.

[@roverchap]

Very clear, thank you. I was aware of the two terms but not clear as to the differences. No doubt I have been using the wrong combinations of driver and screw which is why I have often experienced mashed up and stuck screws!

[@alanr2609]

I have a set of PZ and Phillips screwdrivers. This video has finally taught me the difference after 40 years. I suppose it's too difficult for the manufacturers to show a simple diagram matching screw to screwdriver.

[@fredhunter3950]

Canadian Square screws are excellent as well, simple design screw holds firm at any angle. Does not cam out. very strong. Long history, ford motor company used them but the guy who designed them would not sell the patent

[@benbaselet2026]

Robertsons have their good properties. I kinda like the idea, easier to see what is going on and more material to ruin before you end up with a round hole :-)

[@bluewanderer9903]

Robinson or something like that? I only tried them once didnt like them, dont think its a good design at lower cost. Torx and pozis for me, I only had a problem with pozi once when I tried tightening one with my left foot, they work 100% otherwise I cant understand how folk magage to screw them up ...

[@1992jamo]

​@@CliveChamberlain946 Ah not so basic, I think Robertson is also tapered. I waiting for Torx to finally get some traction. Not sure that is going to happen until construction companies start using Torx (and I don't see that happening as Pozi drives in just fine, and it's not their problem is cams out 15 years later when trying to remove).

[@bimble7240]

It is useful to note that impact drivers are much less likely to "Cam Out" when driving or removing Phillips and Pozidrive screws than a drill driver. With drill drivers you will have to push hard into the screw to stop it camming out with tight screws. If you don't the driver bit and screw will very quickly get chewed up.

[@michealplater9007]

In austraila, see more Phillip screws, however starting to see more different types of screws. As a electrician need to carry different types of screwdrivers for day to day works. When I started as a apprentice electrician, didn't have self drilling metal screws or battery tools, how things change. The first battery drill was a Skill 4.8volt, had a better chance drilling a hole with a pencil.

[@jeffm2787]

I keep both types on hand and use whatever fits best. Don't forget the JIS screws as well that look like Phillips but really aren't. JIS is often close enough that you can get away using a Phillips screwdriver.

[@brendanrandle]

I'm yet to find a Phillips screw that doesn't come out with a JIS screwdriver so that's all I buy now

[@cheeseburgerbeefcake]

Found out the hard way that the screws at the back of my oven (when replacing the element) were phillips and not pozi after stripping 1 and having to cut the head off. A box of drills/driver bits that I got from B&Q (not a very cheap, but own brand one) had 2x size 2 PZ and PH bits with singles of most other sizes that are useful, I was somewhat impressed!

[@davebaines7846]

Phillips screws are criticised for camming out much more easily than posi, but this can have its uses. The advantage is it limits the tightness of the screw when using automatic screwdrivers, and it's why they were used on car assembly lines before torque limiting screwdrivers existed, and are still used today for plasterboard (drywall) screws.

[@Orgakoyd]

It seems like a terrible idea to rely on the driver camming out as a means of torque control. The driver will wear fast, screw heads will be damaged, and the torque achieved is user dependant. Not to mention pointless for everyday fastener use as you squally want the ability to easily tighten screws in construction/ on equipment. And in production settings, well you’re gonna have to use a torque sensing driver. Not saying you’re wrong, but this just seems like a terrible idea.

[@SqwarkParrotSpittingFeathers]

John’s not wrong. Wiha’s chisel type screwdriver set said in one part of the description, on Amazon, Pozi, but PH, in another. Came with Phillips. The Bahco has Pozi in its set of chisel type screwdrivers. Both are excellent sets, so I kept both, but they are expensive.

[@simmcowaPang122]

This is probably the earliest I've been. Thanks for the great video JW

[@paparoysworkshop]

You should also have mentioned the Reed and Prince (Frearson) screw driver. Which looks almost identical to a Philips. The most noticeable difference is the tip of a Reed and Prince is pointed while the tip of a Phillips is flat. The angles are also different.

[@jamesrodgers3132]

1. At a pinch, you can sometimes get away with using a Phillips in a Pozidriv, but not vice versa. 2. Never heard anyone call it anything but Pozi-DRIVE 3. Given the theme of this channel, it seems odd to omit the fact that Phillips are prevalent in electrical/electronic applications

[@jaakkooksa5374]

The world would be a better place if everyone just used Torx screws.

[@fuckfannyfiddlefart]

Security Torx or regular?!

[@jaakkooksa5374]

@@fuckfannyfiddlefart The regular kind. Security screws of any kind are mainly good for annoying.

[@RichardLamsdale]

The history of screw heads is quite interesting (sadly!). I believe cross-head screws were developed when mass-production took-off - screws needed to be inserted by power tools and the traditional slot-head was no good as the driver doesn't self-centre. It saved a small amount of time per screw, but that added-up to a big saving overall.

[@cag9284]

Lol .. finally someone who knows....I have been in so many arguments with my co-works regarding this.. they say there no difference... but obviously there is. Thanks

[@1992jamo]

How on earth can they say there is no difference? How many screws have your co-workers stripped lol.

[@cag9284]

@@1992jamo ... Quite a few,.. and it always pisses me off when I have pick up the work after them 🤣

[@dbtest117]

There is only one to use in 2010-> Torx or the cousin where the driver has a nipple on the end and the screw a matching hole where the screw is compatible with a normal torx driver. Can’t find them now on google as they seem rare and it’s about 5-10 years ago I bought them. But these were superb. With the later one you never really need any magnet on the driver.

[@Adrianyoutubing]

Now introduce the Japanese JIS plus screw, looks almost identical to a Phillips screw but has a slightly different geometry so a Phillips driver doesn't fit quiet correctly. Only see them on some Japanese machinery and Japanese vehicles.

[@5roundsrapid263]

They’re all over electronics.

[@SaintCronch]

I just use torx screws instead, almost all kind of screws are avaliable with torx head nowadays

[@andygardiner6526]

That's not a lot of good if you are taking a screw out ...

[@MrJdebest]

The best screw head is the Robertson, square hole, square bit. Screw stays on the screwdriver, securely. I don't know why they keep coming up with new shapes, like Torx and this new Phillips style here.

[@markpickett6758]

Hi John I believe Pozi drive is used mainly in Europe and places like the USA which use Phillips screws and there's also a no 4 Pozi drive and Phillips screwdriver as well as and also worth mentioning is never buy really cheap screwdrivers because the tip tends to made of soft metal instead of harded metal

[@millomweb]

Looking at the comments, I'm surprised how many people were unaware of this. I've a Stanley 'Yankee' screwdriver - 3 flat blades and 3 phillips bits - a good fit in all screws :)

[@TheLOD2010]

Thankyou very much for showing the differences that clear. Now I know all my mistakes in the past are based on me using the wrong driver

[@em0_tion]

Good to see you again, John. 🙂👍

[@electric_leo1630]

this is very useful cuz I was using my screwdrivers wrong and now I know why some suck at drilling in the screws

[@heronimousbrapson863]

I find here in Canada, the square Robertson screw to be the best.

[@tutnallman]

I have only recently found and used some of these- really locate the screw securely onto the bit. excellent torque- they are not generally available in UK.

[@oyleyhands1332]

Those dark red coloured screwdrivers you had in your hand look like the RS drivers I had some 40 plus years ago, I still have some around. That colour was standard for RS tool handles and unique to RS. I was never sure who made them for RS then but they looked like Steadfast or Eclipse, but they were great screwdrivers, blades really lasted.

[@jwflame]

Yes, they are the RS ones. Those in the video are about 20 years old, but RS still sells them.

[@mairmatt]

The correct answer is: Torx.

[@gerardtrigo380]

When the handle of my Posidriv screwdriver broke, I was told that they no longer make the posidriv in the US. They were popular in the 70's and 80's, but I have not seen a posidriv screw in any newer cars.

[@dougjordan1544]

Thank you John, that is a great explanation

[@danj7123]

In New Zealand they mostly use square drive screws. Having worked on building sites for many years here, they work very well in my opinion. Not sure why we don't use them back in the UK.

[@owensmith7530]

My dad's decking is built with square drive deck screws. However the square drive is so uncommon in the UK that every box of screws had an electric screwdriver bit in.

[@3DNightmare]

Thank Q... Now I know why when I power Drive "BEFORE" I check I run the screws in THEN "Bam" I ruin the HEAD... Real Help-full for us Welders who don't use all the time.

[@PurityVendetta]

One of my biggest triggers lol. Having worked in the past as a motorcycle mechanic I used to find so many mangled JIS screws. Faced wot a JIS that someone has destroyed using their Philips or Pozi drivers used to make me 😠 I work mainly on British bikes now using flat head screws. The trick with these is to grind driver heads to fit precisely, never use those naff drivers with tapered blades. The faces must be parallel. Sorry, I admit, I'm a screwdriver Nerd and don't even get me started on threads 😂

[@bjem2287]

Square drive all the way. They didn't appear in NZ before the 1990s but are extremely popular now.

[@tlangdon12]

There is a lot to recommend square drive if your driver has a torque limiting clutch, but Torx is better still.

[@bjem2287]

@@tlangdon12 Torx is good, but I still prefer square drive for less "exotic" applications.

[@meltrechsler3086]

Only JW can make screws interesting 😊

[@celticwoodworking8706]

Sadly here in the U.S. it's torx that seems to be the most common. I use Posi-Driv or Robertson square drive only in my shop. They are harder to find, here, but well worth using.

[@StuWilloughby]

I prefer Torx. They're just so much more bloody expensive than Pozi in the UK. No idea why.

[@martyclarke969]

Rule of thumb generally I find is if it’s screwed into metal work, it’s a Phillips, everything else is pozi. Wouldn’t say 100% of the time but generally it’s the case

[@1992jamo]

It's easy enough to see the difference between pozi and phillips, but I notice that almost all appliances I've brought which are made in America or China seem to use Phillips.

[@martyclarke969]

@@1992jamo well I’m from a construction background and I would have been inclined to say if it’s screwed into metal, it’s always gonna be Phillips, just like you say. But I wouldn’t have the hands on experience in the electrical/appliance industry so I would never assume so thanks for that.

[@johnmayer5920]

Oh no! Another complication I don’t need. I’m glad I live in Canada and we have the Robertson screw, and our neighbours to the south have the torx which are becoming popular here in Canada. I try to avoid Phillips whenever I can and now I have another reason to.

[@Mogul25Years]

I've been pronouncing is as pozi drive...all these years. So it's pozi driv? You learn something new every day.

[@richardharlow1748]

Nope; you are right: it's pozi drive.

[@VittorioZamparella]

I beg to differ: on phillips heads I use pozidriv drivers and bits to minimise cam-out and phillips drivers and bits to protect the base material (eg plastic) from excessive torque. Heads and driver do wear out as any other things do, but absolutely no catastrofic effect. In the end I never have the luxury to chose the head print, just the tool.

[@alexanderguestguitars3619]

My guess is that Phillips and Pozi are both around due to PATENT LAW. I believe Phillips came first to the market and I'd guess they put pretty hefty patent protections on the system and the tooling to make both the driver and the screws. Then Mr "Pozidrive" came along and wanted a slice of the cross-head market. But how to get around the patents? Phillips basically grinds a set of 4 grooves around the end of their screwdriver, with a grinder, and the slots in the screwhead match. Pozi screwdrivers are made different, if you look. They use two grinding wheels, to cut away the end of their screwdriver to leave a little "fin". They do this four times around the screwdriver tip, to leave the Pozi shaped bit, with the little notches in-between the "fins". I think this is how Pozidrive were able to make cross headed screws which didn't infringe on Phillip's patents. Whether this is true or not, IT'S A PAIN IN THE 8RS*! Phillips drivers seem to seat much better in the screwheads, than Pozi drivers in theirs. Phillips look much tidier and neater than messy looking Pozi's as well. And Phillips is all we need. We don't NEED two different systems of cross head screws. Just DUMP Pozi (in my opinion), and just sell Phillips. Trouble is what do they always sell over here in the UK? POZI.

[@alexcantley9137]

John please can you finish the conduit series 🙏 if you can I like the way you explain things thanks in advance

[@johnt9379]

Don't know what sites you go on but the only times anybody uses PZ1 screws are to fit signs onto fire doors. PZ2 screws are probably used 99.9% of the time. Ask for 1 1/2" 8 or 2" 10 screws at the wholesaler, you get PZ2 headed screws.

[@SeanBZA]

Also remember the scredrivers have a limited life, you will find they wear out eventually. That is why when you buy proper drywall screws in a box you get a bit to install them with, because the bit will last around 2000 screws before it is totally knackered, so you get a new one with every box of 1000 so you do not get it slipping out. Good fine pitch drywall screws will self drill through 1.6mm steel with no problem. The coarse ones are only good in chipboard and plastic.

[@bimble7240]

That's because with drywall the original electric drivers (I still have one) have a collar to control the depth of the bit protrusion, which is adjustable. When the screw reaches a certain depth in the plasterboard the bit is prevented from gripping by "camming out" and this chews up the driver bit over time. So you need a new one with every new box of screws. Pozidrive is not used because PZ screws/drivers are not designed to cam out.

[@SeanBZA]

@@bimble7240 True, but even the hand operated screwdrivers wear out with time, and start to cam out easily. I have replaced many screwdrivers because of wear, and even those with hardened tips you find they wear out, if the tips do not just snap off when you are trying to undo a stubborn screw.

[@Strider9655]

Fun fact Philips screws were invented for the aerospace industry, because the screw cams out (by design) at high torque, it was good for stopping people stripping threads on aluminium panels, which on a large aircraft would have been a very expensive mistake.

[@mikeherbst1825]

Pozidrive heads are very common on European style cabinet hardware. Originally developed by GM for dashboard assembly.

[@tookitogo]

This is also why I hate how in many languages, it’s common to refer to these as “cross screws” (in the respective language), rather than by their formal names: it teaches people to think they’re all the same, when they decidedly are not!!

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

Number 2 Philips seems to work quite well on number 2 pozidriv, but not the other way around! So I use number 2 Philips as for most things.

[@bobpackard9527]

All very well, but I have tossed most of my Phillips head screws out, and I have a full selection from 20mm to 100mm in Square drive. Duplicated in Stainless as well as coated steel. This is for a retired fellers workshop!!

[@tavislucaso]

John quick question for a 13amp plug and play hot tub, would export the current PME supply to earth the new outside socket for it, or would you do a TT system for the earthing. As DAvid savery did in his hot tub video?

[@johnburns4017]

Philips screws were initially designed for electrical equipment. They were designed to _slip out_ to ovoid overtightening. An in-built, cheap, torque screwdriver.

[@tookitogo]

Yet the original patent filing doesn’t mention this, so it’s highly likely that this was actually a retroactive attempt to market its weakness as a supposed advantage.

[@johnburns4017]

@@tookitogo Could be. But they were designed not to be over-tightened, the prime aim of these screws. The screws tended to have a chromed head, which also looked better when domed. The domed head clearly was not for a better grip. Why design and make them when slotted screws can do the same? The original Philips screwdrivers had a more rounded head simply to slip out to prevent over tightening. Posidriv was more squared off as John Ward shows in the vid, giving a firm fix between screw and driver giving a firm non-slip drive of the screw. When Posidriv were first introduced in a big way, they were advertised on TV. Tradesmen shunned them as it was perceived as a DIY gimmick. The TV ad'' pronounced them _Posidrive._ The name told you it gave a positive firm drive with no slipping out that frequently occured with slotted screws. Joiners fixing frames found that they could do jobs in a fraction of the time using an electric driver and posidriv screws, rather than by hand with slotted screws. Posidriv really took off when electric drill-drivers were commonly used as the drill never spun out of the screw. Then torque battery drivers came along, then impact drivers, taking advantage of the firm mating of the driver and screw. When I look at old framing with 4 inch slotted screws done up by hand, I always wonder how long it took and how much wrist strain they suffered - much came back to affect their wrists later in life.

[@tookitogo]

@@johnburns4017 Rewording the claim that Phillips was designed to limit torque/over tightening doesn’t make it any more true. Wiki: ‘The design is often criticized for its tendency to cam out at lower torque levels than other "cross head" designs. There has long been a popular belief that this was a deliberate feature of the design, to assemble aluminium aircraft without overtightening the fasteners. Extensive evidence is lacking for this specific narrative, and the feature is not mentioned in the original patents. However, a 1949 refinement to the original design described in US Patent #2,474,994 describes this feature.’ That reeks of retroactively trying to market a flaw as a feature.

[@johnburns4017]

@@tookitogo You may be right. But the fact is it, *does cam out limiting torque.* If you were designing a cross screw and wanting to have a firm purchase between screw and driver, you would not design one like that. It would be more like the Povidriv design. It _may_ have a been an unknown side feature, but that made it take off, as some manufacturers liked it so adopted it. These day we have torque screwdrivers, drill/drivers, etc.

[@tookitogo]

@@johnburns4017 I’m not disputing that Phillips does cam out and thus limit torque. I’m only disputing the claim that this was an original design goal, which seems very unlikely. (In fact, it was supposedly developed to, among other things, address the _problem_ of cam-out with slotted screws. Wiki again: “The Phillips screw design was developed as a direct solution to several problems with slotted screws: increased cam out potential; precise alignment required to avoid slippage and damage to driver, fastener, and adjacent surfaces; and difficulty of driving with powered tools.”) Nor am I convinced that anyone actually considered camming out at any point to be _desirable,_ even if it did limit torque, because of how camming out damages the screw head, driver, and often the workpiece.

[@gabest4]

I never understood why there were different sizes. The end of the driver is a triangle, it should fit any hole.

[@thabood]

Ah but it's not. Only on PH1. PH2 has a blunted end, PH3 even more so.

[@bobross6802]

In Canada we went Robertson and didn't look back ...

[@duckman5642]

Flange head(square shaped head) screws used alot in Northern Ireland, i haven't seen then anywhere else?

[@w1swh1]

Thanks John! Never realized until I watched your video that there were two different types of 'star' drivers and screws. I have ruined many a screw and driver not knowing this to the extent that I have moved over as much as I can to torx screws and drivers wherever I can where there is no chance of using the wrong tool. Or is there?

[@NorthernMonkeeUK]

I've seen many people attack torx screws with hex drivers/allen keys... So yes, tools will always use the wrong tool.