John Piper's Faulty View Of Determinism, Intuition & Assumptions w/

John Piper explains his view of presuppositions in light of the determinism vs. free will debate. Braxton Hunter of Trinity Radio joins Dr. Leighton Flowers to discuss whether John Piper is correct in his approach to the Bible and Soteriology.
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[@cecilspurlockjr.9421]

Once again, calvinistic determinism corruptly portrays GOD and HIS righteousness . It proves a type of insanity to claim its correct to punish someone for something you have forced them to do from birth without any choice to do otherwise.

[@duncescotus2342]

Well said. I'm giving you a thumbs up so you will continue to take top comment. Having just listened to a bit of Dennis Prager's teaching on the ten commandments, it struck me: No Jews seemed to have believed in divine determinism. Providence, yes. Provision, yes.

[@cecilspurlockjr.9421]

@duncescotus2342 Thanks brother. GOD bless you

[@lordjared2572]

hi echo chamber, bye echo chamber.

[@duncescotus2342]

@@lordjared2572 what does that mean?

[@duncescotus2342]

@@cecilspurlockjr.9421 Thank you bro. Keep up the witness for the holy universal (catholic small c, orthodox, small o, apostolic, small a, etc) Christian faith!

[@bigdogboos1]

i have finally left my church of 10 yrs because i just cannot stand this kind of doctrine anymore. it eats your soul away and makes you cold to suffering (it was all God's will, and his will is always good, so therefore all the suffering and evil that happens is good). The calvinist God is a monster, and not what God reveals himself to be in scripture. I tried the "agree to disagree" for a long time, but it's just become one of the major doctrines for me, that i cannot attend a church over.

[@jjphank]

Although we do go thru suffering, Calvinistic god & suffering makes us callous, like the parable of the Calvinist in Matthew 25 a.k.a. talents!

[@duncescotus2342]

You're brave, and I pray the Lord reward you with a healthy church fellowship where you and your loved ones can flourish. There's more to salvation that just the new birth anyhow. May revelation, peace, joy, mercy, good fruits and the power of the Holy Spirit be with you and your household of faith today and tomorrow until He comes again: "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, you and your house." As regards evil: "God tempts no one, neither can He be tempted..."

[@cecilspurlockjr.9421]

Praise THE LORD that yiuvwoke up my friend. One who truly holds GOD and HIS righteousness as paramount in their theology can't possibly stay in worship with those who make calvinist claims about ( against ) GOD .

[@rolandovelasquez135]

J Piper is one of the best contortionists I have ever seen. He's simply incredible! Unequaled 😅

[@amapola53]

Never trusted him after his promotion of "Christian Hedonism!"

[@jaycenaicker589]

Thank you Leighton for making scripture so clear to understand.

[@Dilley_G45]

Somebody tell.them.cavinists that Calvin and Zwinglys writings are NOT part of scripture. The whole reformation started about sola scriptura and sola fidae. Not about replacing the pope with Calvin

[@duncescotus2342]

Good point, and we need to hold to the scriptures as a unified Church without tearing ourselves apart: As the apostle said, "I would that you be united in one mind and purpose, saying the same things..."

[@Dilley_G45]

@@duncescotus2342 divisions are brought by heretics. When my church decided to allow women pastors I had to leave....The Bible clearly says there is no unity through false teachings. We are to rebuke false teachers. We are to be united in truth, in the word of God...not for unitys sake.

[@iwilldi]

@@Dilley_G45 Now i know why in Mark the women at the tomb were afraid and said nothing to noone. They were afraid about you!

[@mikelyons2831]

Kids you can get all your toys out, draw on the walls & eat spaghetti right out of the can in your bedroom... how dare you!!! Look at this room? You are all in big trouble, except for Timmy. I have decided he is randomly exhonorated.

[@cecilspurlockjr.9421]

You forgot to set all of the kids on fire, except for Mikey, my friend.

[@ElephantInTheRoom777]

i am in the process of trying to show my calvinistic brothers that they don’t need the extra baggage of calvinism to be Biblical. So far it appears that not only do i not understand calvinism, i must have never been a calvinist, and that i am in denial. I preach in A LOT of places……… once.

[@jjphank]

God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9! God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined! Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1! Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright ! So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says ! Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue. So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8! But if you’re a Calvinists it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“! Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try! Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!

[@eiontactics9056]

Calvinism is not Christianity, and I wouldn't give someone that might not be saved (because of believing in a different god, gospel and Jesus) false validation by calling them 'brothers'. That is enabling and abetting the false Calvinistic delusion, being part of the problem and further allowing it to continue.

[@chaddonal4331]

@@eiontactics9056Sorry, this is too far. Read some good Calvinists to see their love for Christ and their pursuit of God’s holiness. They seem to have a flawed philosophical foundation but have primarily arrived at their convictions thru their interpretive views of Scriptures including John 6, 10, Eph 1, Romans 9 and an assortment of OT verses which emphasize God’s involvement in everything. Know that it is possible to be mistaken or to make faulty interpretations and yet still know and love Jesus. (Just like you: you have wrongly interpreted Calvinists to be outside the kingdom of God, but that errant view doesn’t make you an unbeliever.) 😅 Same principle.

[@eiontactics9056]

@@chaddonal4331 I've been studying Calvinism and evangelizing to many Calvinists and having discussions for years now. If you had done more research before you left a comment, you would know that Calvinism isn't 'interpretive views of Scripture'. None of the distinctives of Calvinism are found in Scripture, nor were derived from Scripture. On the contrary, these distinctives originated from Manichaean Gnosticism that Augustine influenced within Roman Catholicism. (Total Inability/Depravity, Unconditional Election (Augustine/Gnostic Predestination), etc.) These distinctives came about and were influenced by Augustine in his debate against Pelagius. Instead of Augustine going to Scripture to win the debate, he relied on his old Manichaean Gnostic, Stoicism and neo-Platanism to come up with philosophical ideas to defeat Pelagius. Later on, these ideas lead to questions, and what we now know as Calvinism/Reformed theology came about simply by answering those questions based around an idea that was never derived from Scripture, but rather Manichaean Gnosticism (Total Depravity). Example: "If everyone are born totally depraved and they are evil and have no free will, how is one saved?" Answer: "God unconditionally chooses who will be saved before eternity past". (Unconditional Election) Q: "What if someone is chosen to be saved but doesn't want to be saved?" A: "God irresistibly gives them faith". (Irresistible Grace) Etc... Then these philosophical answers were reversed engineered into Scripture... this is why ALL of Scripture in context contradicts Calvinism. They only have passages taken out of context and have to redefine words in order to even demonstrate Calvinism to even be seemingly in Scripture... Nobody can ever come to the conclusion of Calvinism by just reading Scripture. You would have to be ignorant to Scripture and already taught the ideas of Calvinism before you've read Scripture. Calvinism is literally a false religion that masquerades as Christianity, that rejects Scripture, the Gospel, God and Jesus for their own Gnostic perversion. They claim things like 'Sola Scriptura' and 'Sovereignty of God' to beguile the ignorant, while actually being Sola TULIP and redefining 'Sovereignty' to mean meticulous determinism. You can not believe in what Scripture says and the Gospel and believe in Calvinism at the same time. They contradict eachother. If you would like to discuss more on this topic, I'd be happy to. Hope this helps you understand 🙏 ❤️

[@chaddonal4331]

@@eiontactics9056 I am plenty researched. I am well aware of all you have written. I have also studied Luther and Calvin directly (in addition to how you are presenting Augustine). All that has caused me to leave Calvinism behind. But I still regularly interact with hundreds of Calvinists, have read countless works and have benefitted from the ministry of many. They are redeemed brothers in Christ even though I disagree with them on how we understand Soteriology and underlying philosophy. Most adherents know nothing of Mani’s gnostic teachings. They see passages like “You did not choose Me, but I chose you” and see the spiritual hardening of most people they know and they interpret those scriptures and those interactive realities within the Reformed lenses they’ve been taught. It seems coherent to them. This is why I’m saying that Calvinism isn’t a litmus test for salvation (in either direction - to accept or reject Calvinism is not a basis for one’s faith). Countless believers have subtly or insistently affirmed tenants of Calvinism while placing their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. In false religions, faith is placed in something or someone other than Jesus Christ. And THAT religious conviction does not save. You simply cannot assert persuasively that Calvinist leaders, pastors , authors and theologians like Charles Haddon Spurgeon, John Frame, Jonathan Edwards, Martin Lloyd-Jones, John Piper, Michael Card, Don Carson, Douglass Moo, Ann Voscamp, Tim Keller, Rosario Butterfield (as an assortment of examples) do not truly know the real Jesus and that you won’t see them among the redeemed in eternity. If you truly Do assert that… well I have nothing more to say. I expect to see them and embrace them as brothers and sisters. And I fully expect that all of us will discover needed revisions to our theology when we no longer “see dimly”. Until then, we bear with one another in love and extend to grace where we disagree.

[@dpcrn]

When bringing these short clips out of a longer video, I think it would be a good idea to link to that longer video in the description. For example, I don’t remember watching this longer video and I will try to go back and find it. The shorts are wonderful. But adding that will help for times when we want to go back for more in-depth study. Thank you for all your hard work on making these clips.

[@lauren8407]

The more I hear this kind of stuff from him the more I feel for his son!!! This drives people to despair and is so insane!! His son needs to trust in Jesus but I understand his reaction to his understanding of Christianity which is just hardcore Calvinism.

[@wfxxfox1963]

So let me see if I understand Piper... he believes God determines literally everyone's behavior, punishes them when said behavior disobeys the law HE created, then declares it to be free will, at least... some form of it?!? Ima need at least ONE book/chapter/verse that clearly states this completely illogical and unjust theological belief! But serious question: how does someone as smart as Piper come to this belief; or put another way, how can ANYONE fail to see the canyon-size holes of logic and injustice existing in such an obviously man-made theology? How I would LOVE to know where the disconnect happened to get men such as Piper, McArthur, Lawson, Baucham et al to really believe, teach and preach this inane doctrine!

[@cecilspurlockjr.9421]

You won't find what Piper is saying in context anywhere in scripture .

[@thebluedoorstep647]

i think that Piper credits studying Jonathan Edward's writings. Since then the Bible is always seen through this lens.

[@capnbingbong7833]

From what I understand, all Calvinists believe this not just Piper

[@cecilspurlockjr.9421]

@@capnbingbong7833 Absolutely, but they have different ways of ad hoc rationalizing what they believe when it actually all boils down to the same thing.

[@mikeshahan1960]

If God determines everything and we are not free what is the point of preaching the gospel? What is the point of prayer? If God has determined everything, how can we love? How can we hate? How can we obey or disobey? Calvinism is riddled with logical impossibilities and moral non sequiturs. And why would God give us deceptive intuitions? I will say it: If we are not free to choose then God is unfair to judge. If Calvinism is true then we can live as we please and the outcome is the same as if we lived a righteous life. We needn't worry ourselves about obedience since it is beyond our control. We needn't worry ourselves about the unsaved since it is God's sovereign plan that they be that way. Calvinism is logical insanity.

[@titosantiago3694]

Is it not free-will vhen John Piper use to believe in free-will but then chose to believe in determinsm? How did he test and reason logically to come to his new belief if not through the use of his free-will? Deception is the word that comes to mind.

[@Jsmoove917]

Calivinihilism lol

[@bobbyadkins6983]

If a person who believes like John Piper is saved, how they could be so would have to be a MYSTERY.

[@chaddonal4331]

John Piper is a believer via faith in Christ Jesus, the Faithful One. Just like you and me.

[@jackshadow325]

The opposite of “free will” is not “no will” - the opposite of “free will” is “enslaved will.” Sin does enslave our independent wills, but not to the degree that Calvinists believe. To make right decisions, one must know the truth about what one is deciding. You shall know the truth and the truth will set you free.

[@iwilldi]

Imagine two unconnected sets of dominos. No domino can claim free will. But each stone can claim that it is not affected by the other set. And that is what we mean. It is the intuition that while all are causally determined, there are limits in regards to the interactive causes. The man at the other end of the visible universe is free from whatever i am caused to do! We use language often emotionally. Free will has to be translated to the will to freedom. To some degree that seems to be a pattern. It means that my actions become unpredictable and unguided. And humans achieve this kind of freedom regularly. But besides our coloquial usage we have to ask: what is the topology of causality, and what happens at nodes or ends, if there are any. And can we ever speak about that, which is beyond causality, namely chaos.

[@iwilldi]

The truth does not set you free, but it makes you lonely.

[@bigburton24]

I’ll take Jesus’ words over yours. Jesus said, “you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free… I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me.”

[@titosantiago3694]

God deliver us from this lie called Calvinism.

[@iwilldi]

They fought 30 years over it. You cannot claim that god did not try. But maybe his failure was predetermined

[@DOO718]

Well said, guys. Great info 👍🏼

[@cjphillips90]

Thank you for the video. Commenting for the Algorithm.

[@titosantiago3694]

According to Calvinism, God determines Christians to have contradicting theological views, which means no one can ever know who is and is not being deceived. Calvinism is a mockery of the faithful God of Truth.

[@iwilldi]

Calvin implies: Catholicism is true because god determined it Calvinism is true because god determined it Hinduism is true because god determined it Communism is true because god detirmined it Atheism is true because causality determined it The sin of atheism is to reveal a true name of god.

[@martianuslucianus4485]

The interesting thing about his views on this is that he has inadvertently adopted the philosophical positions of his mentor Jonathan Edwards who was an occasionalist that denied secondary causes and therefore made God the primary agent of every happening in the universe in a very direct and causal way.

[@sheilasmith7779]

Yes martin: Augustine could not reconcile the co existence of a benevolent, all powerful God ...with the existence of evil. So his solution was to promote the idea that God determines evil for His glory. Wrong assumption, wrong explanation or solution.

[@lmorter7867]

In order to believe in divine determinism one has to deliberately check their common sense and reasoning at the door.

[@iwilldi]

because it is divine or because it is deterministic?

[@TheMaineSurveyor]

God is divine and He determines things. It's Scriptural. God is righteous, which means He doesn't sin, and therefore, isn't the author of sin. So, God at once can both determine things and yet not be the author of sin. *God determines* Job 38:4-5 “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it?" Daniel 9:24 “Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy. Acts 4:27-28 For truly against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose determined before to be done. Acts 17:26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings *God is divine* Numbers 23:19 “God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good? *God is righteous* Psalm 11:7 For the Lord is righteous, He loves righteousness; His countenance beholds the upright.

[@lmorter7867]

@@iwilldi Both. It is not reasonable because it makes God responsible for everything which includes evil.

[@iwilldi]

@@lmorter7867 At times people thought it more reasonable to conjure up an adversary of god. But even causality has an adversary: chaos. Rational is relative. It most often corelates with the debth of the trenches of your thought patterns. So if you don't want to make god responsible for all evil, then you need something totally independent from your good god. I think you accept this argument as rational. Question: what is it which is totally independant from your good god?

[@lmorter7867]

@@iwilldi You are talking over my head. The reason I can't buy into divine determinism is because it is not logical. If God is good and there is no evil in HIm as the Bible says - "This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." - 1 John 12:5 - He can not be the determiner of evil things. If God determines everything that happens it means He is responsible for everything that happens. To say that humans are not responsible yet they are responsible at the same time makes no logical sense. No where in scripture does it say to ignore logic. God doesn't break His own laws. God IS Logos.

[@HrvojeSL]

So according to Calvin, life is like pro wrestling. We the audience are in suspense about the outcome of a match, but said outcome has already been decided by the wrestling higher ups

[@Jebron_G]

Great points!! How's the gospel good news when the majority of humanity is predetermined and sentenced to go to hell forever ?? What kind of good news is it when majority of your children are determined to die eternally? Horrible news is a lot more suitable in the Calvinistic view, which is why Calvinism is totally unbiblical!

[@chrislucastheprotestantview]

I like the point at the end

[@MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

Prefect question. They are saying that God predetermined us not to believe in predeterminism, so how do they know if they aren't the ones that God predetermined to not believe in free will.

[@dianeglover479]

In our courts if someone couldn't help doing a crime( mental health, age etc) they are not held accountable

[@jamesjohnson8918]

What purpose would be served the doomed. Why have people who are destined for hell. What would be their purpose. The lost don't have irresitable grace to offer. Why would and kind merciful God create people who have nothing but hell to look forward to. Godless calvinism

[@chaddonal4331]

So, is it accurate to assert: compatibilist determinism is not useful? (Because it is not livable, as one must deny their convictions and live as if their decisions matter, even while believing that all their decisions were previously and unalterably determined by God).

[@johnknight3529]

One wonders why such a God would call anyone "stiffnecked", if everyone is doing only what was "previously and unalterably determined by God" for them to do . . Which of course I am wondering (according to the total-determinists) only because God previously and unalterably determined I would . . He apparently wants me to be very confused ; )

[@eiontactics9056]

Who Jesus died for, etc. Are core essential fundamentals of Christianity. Calvinism twists the Gospel, God and Jesus. It is not Biblical Christianity. It is another false religion that masquerades as Christianity, just like Mormonism, JW, etc. Paul says that anyone preaching another Gospel is accursed.

[@Scotts.Christianity.Teaching]

I've a good amount of Calvinist family that I want to share this to on Facebook. I almost committed suicide from 5-Point Calvinism, because I believed I wouldn't go to Hell. I thought I'm Arminian now. I thought about Free Will Baptist church or Evangelical church.

[@cecilspurlockjr.9421]

Praise THE LORD that you came to your senses brother.

[@Madcow7777]

You were lead by kindness and sternness. And we rejoice .

[@bjacres7057]

People who love predetermination are usually people who are afraid they aren't saved so predetermination let's them off the hook they then ASSUME they are one of the chosen therefore saved forever no matter what.

[@Madcow7777]

Yes my pastor turned fulled calvinists because “everyone was afraid they weren’t going to heaven”. It was an incredible response because mine was “so not because jesus said so?” And the desire for salvation assurance is overwhelming, look at any of rc sproul sermon, it’s a fixation with our own assurances rather than gods 🤷🏼

[@larrybedouin2921]

A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. {James 1:8}

[@gregorylatta8159]

Calvinism is counterintuitive!!!

[@nordicnugget]

Could you do a video on is Calvinism Biblical by Real Talk with Jordan Riley

[@jayheinz4624]

Great point at 16.40 minutes on ,,👍👍 regarding the atheists statement,,! And by saying by sharing the gospel , with the atheist, they're convoluting saying they could possibly become the elect?? But maybe you're not the elect?? let's just keep guessing ?and hoping , enduring and working and looking at fruits!! And more fruits!! and playing mental tulip gymnastics the rest of our lives and hoping we make it to heaven.. this is the gospel,!! this is the good news!?????

[@dw6528]

*THINGS WHICH ONLY EXIST AS MASQUERADES WITHIN CALVINISM* In Calvinism: 1) Everything which comes to pass - is solely and exclusively determined to infallibly come to pass before man is created 2) Only that which is decreed to infallibly come to pass is granted existence 3) No ALTERNATIVES from that which is decreed to infallibly come to pass are granted existence 4) Nothing within creation has ANY SAY - ANY CHOICE - ANY CONTROL over anything that is decreed 5) which means man's SELF has NO SAY - NO CHOICE - NO CONTROL over anything that is decreed 6) Thus in Calvinism 100% of man's SELF is meticulously determined - solely and exclusively by Calvin's god 7) Leaving ZERO% left UN-Determined - and thus ZERO% left over - for man's SELF to determine And yet the Calvinist has a need to claim that in Calvinism - man is granted "SELF Determination"??? Yes! But only in the form of a MASQUERADE! :-D

[@cecilspurlockjr.9421]

What better argument could an atheist or Muslim have ? And it's provided right here in the untenable tenants of calvinism .

[@owengoodspeed5763]

Yes, all assumptions that the Calvinist brings to and tries to insert into the text.

[@iwilldi]

Your conclusion should rather be: Man is given the gift to have contradictory beliefs. And yes that is what we observe in the world: people having contradictory beliefs within themselves and among themselves on every scale. It seems causality only sometimes favors convergence of ideas, and the only reason why people are actually conservative in their beliefs, because the more their thoughts run in circles the deeper the trenches become.

[@a.k.7840]

For some reason I feel like calvinism would sound more intellectual were it to be recited through a snorkel or maybe a kazoo.

[@dw6528]

@@a.k.7840 DW: OH! That is totally hilarious! The reason Calvinism is a more superior belief system is because it requires the believer to be DOUBLE-MINDED. And in Calvinism - having two minds which constantly contradict each other - is superior to having one mind which doesn't contradict itself! :-D

[@johnknight3529]

If the ultimate fate of those who reject God/Christ was to just be disintegrated upon fleshly death, then total predeterminism would not be repugnant to me on the "intuitive" level, I suppose. I could rationalize God using them as demonstrations of what He does not want people to do, in a "world" wherein those who would be preserved/saved to be His people and He their God, in a subsequent Life . . But the concept that He would cause them to suffer greatly, as a result of being made (by Him) unable to accept/trust in Him, renders such a God suspiciously like what those very people who reject Him most stridently like to portray Him as . . (A psychopathic control freak, simply put.)

[@cecilspurlockjr.9421]

The last couple of sentences of your comment are a very good point, my friend .

[@luke31ish]

Even if election is true, it's useless to talk about it if we don't have the knowledge of who's elected. It's all obfuscation, imagination, sophistry and posing. One surely can't say he's elected because he feels like it.

[@Madcow7777]

I’d argue that the true definition of Calvinist predestination vs biblical, ie they all claim “we can’t know”. The bible says “be sure and certain” meaning Calvinism says believe in gods predetermine and guess and wish your are gods elect. The bible says you ARE (no maybe )

[@Mike-hr6jz]

John Piper is quick to defend doctrine that determines God is evil, but he won’t defend a good God, who does not sin and does not tempt anyone God is bigger, and his ways are higher than ours. He can chew gum and walk at the same time. He didn’t know what the future is, but still give us the choice to do right or wrong why is this so hard for these people they hang to their philosophy and would rather Demean God‘s personality and. Goodness The priorities are obviously about intellect there’s being greater than they think Gods is How confused. Remember the scripture John there is a way that seems right to a man, but the end is destruction.

[@primeobjective5469]

If all things are determined by outside forces, even Pipers convictions are false.

[@a.k.7840]

And they also didn't originate from John Piper, thus they're only called "his" by dint of having been assigned to him rather than to some one else.

[@jjphank]

God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9! God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined! Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1! Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright ! So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says ! Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue. So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8! But if you’re a Calvinists it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“! Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try! Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!

[@shredhed572]

​@@jjphank I see how you're pasting in a prefab (predetermined) comment. Very calvinist of you 😂

[@jjphank]

@@shredhed572 Get a clue, my notes are very anti-Calvinist! I just don’t wanna repeat myself, so I cut and paste! Any questions on the Bible ? get to studying Junior?

[@iwilldi]

If everything is a domino, every domino stage is as true as the first stage, if there is a first stage.

[@Azurewroth]

To redefine responsibility is to redefine good and evil since these are inseparable concepts. This is an unwarranted and unannounced paradigm shift of the Calvinistic worldview that should be opposed. This is how Calvinists defend their theological perspective. They redefine fundamental terms and concepts and use those redefinitions under the guise of existing ones. Their entire framework hangs on these redefinitions and without them they run into many logical contradictions and inconsistencies. The layman who is unaware of this is then misled into thinking that the Calvinistic position is Biblical and logically sound.

[@TheMaineSurveyor]

No redefinition of words is necessary. 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. _Who is bound to give thanks to God?_ Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, named in the letter's opening in chapter 1. _For whom are they giving thanks to God?_ You, brethren beloved by the Lord; the recipients of the letter; the Christians at Thessalonica. _Why are they thankful for the recipients of the letter?_ Because God chose them. _What did God choose them for?_ For salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. _When did God choose them?_ From the beginning. _What else did God do for them?_ He called them. _How did God call them?_ By the gospel preached by Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy. _What does the gospel achieve?_ The obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Note that this is saying God chose people for salvation. It is not saying God merely chose that salvation would be an option for some general group of people. Any reader of this letter at Thessalonica could look at those words and say, "Yes, God chose me for salvation, and God chose Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy for salvation, too. All thanks and praise be to God!" Context Check What is the context of the Thessalonians passage? In chapter 1, Paul talks about the coming judgment of those who do not know God. He also encourages the believers, telling them he's praying for them to remain steadfast. In chapter 2, Paul warns the believers to be on the lookout for false claims that Christ has already come. He says a falling away must come first, then the man of sin will be revealed. Paul reminds the believers at Thessalonica that he told them all this when he was with them. The lawless one will carry out signs and wonders to deceive those who are perishing. Then God will send a strong delusion, so that those who are perishing believe the lie, and all who do not believe the truth will be condemned. Then Paul says that he, Timothy, and Silvanus are thankful for the recipients of this letter, because God chose them for salvation. The implication is that they won't be condemned because God chose them for salvation by the Spirit and belief in the truth. The Thessalonians can rest in their salvation, because they believe the truth. They will not believe the strong delusion that God will send to those who are perishing.

[@Azurewroth]

@@TheMaineSurveyor "No redefinition of words is necessary. " You say that in a reply to a video where John Piper redefines responsibility and justice. The statement is patently false. You took a long while to explain the supposed context and meaning of 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14. This proves that it is not a clear and easy scripture to interpret, which means it is also possible that there are other logical interpretations as well. Since you said no redefinitions are necessary, "world" and "whosoever" in John 3:16, "Any" and "all" in 2 Peter 3:9 as well as "everyone" in Acts 2:21, "whoever" and "all" in romans 10:13 will mean simply and exactly what those words mean as is commonly understood. All these clear scripture therefore stand opposed to the interpretation you have given to 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14. Instead of trying to twist clear scripture to fit convoluted interpretations of unclear scriptures you should be conforming your interpretation of unclear scriptures to be consistent with clear scriptures. Since your interpretation of 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 contradicts so many clear verses we can only conclude that it cannot be true.

[@TheMaineSurveyor]

@@AzurewrothI'm not a John Piper fanboy. Sorry to disappoint. I'm here neither to defend nor oppose him. I'm simply responding to your comment as written. You didn't point out where you thought my understanding of 2 Thessalonians was convoluted. But let's look at what you said. Let's start with "all" Does "all" ever have a context? Can it have it a context, or can it only ever mean "everyone or everything without exception"? Luke 2:1 And it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered. Is Luke telling us that Caesar Augustus decreed that people in China, Australia, Madagascar, and Hawaii should be registered? Does "all" have a context here? Of course it does. By telling us that Caesar Augustus sent out this decree, we know that "all the world" must mean the all the Roman world, or all that was under the control of the Roman government. If you agree, we have just seen that the Bible can place a limiting context on the world "all". What about "all" in 2 Peter 3:9? Who is Peter talking to? He's talking to believers, saying God "is longsuffering toward us." And "all" can't mean "everyone without exception" because Peter already listed an exception in verse 7, the "perdition of ungodly men." There will be men who are absolutely going to perdition. We can safely conclude that those men will not repent, therefore "all" can't include them. What about "any" in that 2 Peter passage? Some do perish under God's exercise of His justice, and so He allows perishing to happen. But now we seem to have a contradiction between what He wills and what He does. So who is the "any"? At a minimum, surely we can agree that all who do and will believe the good news of Jesus Christ will not perish. The Day of the Lord will come at exactly the right time; no one who comes to repentance will suffer God's wrath. Let's look at "world" and "whosoever" in John 3:16. These words aren't a problem. I don't dispute them. Do you think I should? They're beautiful, and wonderful words, which we should preach to all people, as commanded by our Lord Jesus Christ in the Great Commission. Everyone without exception should hear the gospel of Jesus Christ. What about Acts 2:21? Sure, no problem. Anyone who calls on the Name of the Lord will be saved. It's absolutely true. I'm not sure why you think I should have a problem with that. Should Romans 10:13 be a problem for me for some reason? I'm not sure why you would think that it would be. Now, please understand that I'm not hiding some secret meaning of "anyone" from you. The gospel is literally made available to all people without exception. Surely we can agree that not all will believe it. And if you and I can figure that out from Scripture, surely the Author of Scripture already knows who those specific people are. It is not a nameless, faceless group to Him. The Good Shepherd knows His sheep, of all folds, whether of Israel or of Gentile origin. Jesus laid down His life for His sheep. And from His ascension to His return, we are to be His witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.

[@williammcguire5685]

How does he figure he's one of the chosen? Was he visited in his sleep did he have a dream how do they know they're saved and not going to hell.

[@MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

I don't get their hostilty toward free will, as if it takes God's soverign will and makes it inferior to ours! The only way we can be responsible for our decisions if we have a free will. I give my daughter the keys to the car and told her not to drink but little does she know I had a chip implanted in her to where I can control her and when she went out I hit a button and made her disregard what I commanded her and she did drink and drive and endes up taking her own life, but it's still all her fault.

[@Iprofessshirk]

@14:08 - This is the big paradigm for me. I'm a professing Christian who believes that it is possible for me to "fall away" and I can peer into my heart and I believe that I could be deceived & reject God...therefore, if I became convinced that Calvinism was true, I believe I would have no choice but to "fall away" because if I believe in the reality of the possibility of falling away, then obviously I COULD NOT be one of God's elect, and any attempt to continue following God would be self-delusional... In addition, I'm pretty sure I would not desire to worship a God who is the author of evil.

[@pepehaydn7039]

Catholic here. I love arguments in favor of "libertarian free will" because only this view is compatible with the absolute goodness, sanctity, Justice of the Trinitarian God.

[@larrybedouin2921]

John Piper doesn't know that God's mercy is equal to his justice and that requires libertarian freewill.

[@chaddonal4331]

Equal? Interesting. Perhaps far surpassing. Consider a deep dive into Ex. 34:5-9, where YHWH presents Himself the most clearly (prior to Jesus’ arrival) to Moses. Notice the quite UN-equal self-descriptions by God regarding His disposition toward people!

[@larrybedouin2921]

@@chaddonal4331 As Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make *the tabernacle* for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. The mercyseat covering the Ark of the Covenant that and the alter of sacrifice where built to a pattern of the heavenly tabernacle, both being equal in hight. And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments. {Revelation 16:7}

[@SB-zl7mm]

I believe that Calvinists have to brainwash themselves in order to accept and live with the whole doctrine. They have to recondition their minds to think that Biblical freewill and complete determinism are compatible. They have to force themselves to believe that God is just in determining people to sin and then judging them for it. They have to brainwash themselves to believe that sin, evil and corruption are good because they must have been determined to occur for God’s glory. You have to go against the Bible, logic and your intuition in order to accept Calvinism. And even if you get to the point where you’ve accepted the tulip doctrine in your head, you cannot possibly practically live it out. Even Spurgeon had to go against the doctrine he believed and taught in order to follow the Bible. He preached the gospel to everyone because he said he wasn’t sure who was “elect” and who wasn’t. He had to choose to follow either the Bible or Calvin. Thank God he followed the Bible in regard to preaching the gospel to the lost.

[@otiscorn4538]

If all things are determined you can’t ever know truth, period.

[@yvonnedoulos8873]

If I intuit that I have free will to choose to do right or wrong, then one tells me it was God that ordained that to happen and for me to believe it was my choice, how is that not gaslighting?

[@TheMaineSurveyor]

Where do we find out what is true? Your intuition or Scripture? (I'm not suggesting that God is the author of sin; just trying to find out how you test what is true.)

[@yvonnedoulos8873]

@@TheMaineSurveyor - Paul tells us that the Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are His children (Romans 8:16). I think we can assume He will guide us to know if our intuition is right, as well.

[@TheMaineSurveyor]

@@yvonnedoulos8873 When you find out that your intuition disagrees with Scripture, which do you hold to as correct?

[@yvonnedoulos8873]

@@TheMaineSurveyor - If I intuitively believe I have willfully chosen to do something, what Scripture would deny that?

[@TheMaineSurveyor]

@@yvonnedoulos8873 Of course you can make choices! I'm not arguing for exhaustive, meticulous control. The kind of determinism that Leighton opposes, I oppose as well. That kind of determinism is not a "Calvinistic" doctrine. But it is apparently a Piperistic one. There seems to be a difference, at least as presented in this video. But Piper will have to speak for himself; I'm not him.

[@lifelinesoutreach]

Name one person or people group not chosen by God in the Bible?

[@Madcow7777]

This is an easy statement because god did the choosing but what exactly did he choose them for? In Calvinism you only have the elect (the sheep) and the reprobate who god chose for destruction. But Roman’s 11 argues the gentiles and Jews are branches, which means they are neither sheep nor wolves and need to be careful… because they are branches …. Even argues they are grafted in ( barely saved as rc sproul confirms but detests). Not sure why it’s so hard to accept. So because they are NOT promised to be held on to no matter what they should fear because god didn’t spare the natural branches.

[@lifelinesoutreach]

@@Madcow7777 1 Corinthians 1:27-29 New King James Version 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the [a]base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.

[@marincusman9303]

I have the choice of driving a bus into a crowd of people tomorrow. On Calvinism, if I choose to do so, I LITERALLY COULD NOT HAVE NOT DONE IT. On Calvinism I can do any sort of evil and be able to consistently claim that I had absolutely no ability not to do that evil. Apologies, repentance, none of that make sense when you can literally and accurately say God made me do it.

[@marincusman9303]

Consistent determinism necessarily brings about the worst nihilism I can imagine

[@jjphank]

God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9! God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined! Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1! Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright ! So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says ! Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue. So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8! But if you’re a Calvinists it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“! Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try! Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!

[@marincusman9303]

@@jjphank did you mean to reply that to me?

[@duncescotus2342]

Interesting analogy. Ugh. Maybe if we said, the Spirit is like the wind, and we're sailors, and the Spirit is also like our charts and compass, and even more, like the wisdom that we have learned about sailing, that might be more like it, so that all good ultimately comes from God, but we still have to do the sailing.

[@shredhed572]

Lol It's the "flip"ped version of Flip Wilson's "The Devil made me do it."😂

[@geertjekneefel5252]

So God predeterministically made the person in 1 Cor 3:14-15 to ENTER HEAVEN yet HAVING NO REWARDS which are the outcome for his SPIRITUAL LAZINESS that supposedly this 'laziness' had been initiated by God. This 'news' is such a RELIEVE to those who wanna be spiritually lazy in LAODICEAN kind of away .... it such a relieve that we can be LAZY SPIRTUALLY WITHOUT ETERNAL CONSEQUENCES because after all our LAZINESS itself is also presumably iniated by God. There's no need for A TRUE REFORMED preacher to encourage his conggregation to have a discipline prayer life and striving in their pursue of holiness he would just simply say If God has fatalistically made u a person of prayer and pursuer of holiness then u will automatically live that way however if God has fatalistically made us as 'heaven citizen' yet with lazy attitude and stagnant spiritually then u should accept your fate and be happy because what's matter most is ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED...as long as we have been secured out of hell then NOTHING ELSE MATTER .

[@xneutralgodx]

Self evident to know and to use the to know to know free will is self evident . For ultimately much knowledge is under self evidence category and this particular category unfortunately for calvinists it is pressed upon us every waking moment libertarian free will and self determination as truth To quote anime PREDICTABLE Even with free will we are predictable.

[@AmayzinOne]

Leighton, I have one thought I am still struggling with and if you could walk me through it, that would be super helpful. I struggle with God knowing the future in ultimate detail if we are truly free. Often in the Old Testament there is prophesy, even with God telling Moses what will happen with Pharaoh in the burning bush. I recognize knowing does not mean determining, but if it’s truly possible man could choose otherwise, does it lend the chance of prophecy failing? Or, if man will not choose otherwise because it is known, is it not in some way determined? Ultimately, if before the foundation of the world, God knew all things and chose to create those things, would he not be the determiner? I believe in free will, I’m just struggling with how a created being can have true freedom. I’ve read through molinism and other concepts and just wanted to see if you had any guidance or if this is an appeal to mystery we must stand on.

[@paulmann7297]

What Piper calls an assumption, is not an assumption, and it is in the Bible. Maybe he should pick one up and read it.

[@lindajohnson4204]

You must have real responsibility for that for which you are being held responsible by God. That God owes us nothing does not mean that He does not believe that He has an obligation, created in His own sovereign word, to act in truth and justice, according to what He believes justly and honestly represents His word, as He intended.

[@Hicky33]

Need that content where Piper affirms every single thing are determined, kindly share the link.

[@jjphank]

God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9! God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined! Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1! Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright ! So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says ! Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue. So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8! But if you’re a Calvinists it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“! Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try! Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!

[@loucontino4804]

2 Peter 1:5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, 6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, 7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; 11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

[@lcee6592]

I'm fairly certain that mankind's inherited sinful nature, is the biggest cause of sinful acts. That is directly tied to our free will. God does not cause us to sin, He may let us sin or even stop us from committing a particular sin but (for His reasons) not cause our sin.

[@buzzbbird]

Calvin's institutes- 14.18 Paul declares generally that unbelievers are blinded by God, though he had previously described it as the doing of Satan. It is evident, therefore, that Satan is under the power of God, and is so ruled by his authority, that he must yield obedience to it. Moreover, though we say that Satan resists God, and does works at variance with His works, we at the same time maintain that this contrariety and opposition depend on the permission of God. I now speak not of Satan’s will and endeavour, but only of the result. For the disposition of the devil being wicked, he has no inclination whatever to obey the divine will, but, on the contrary, is wholly bent on contumacy and rebellion. This much, therefore, he has of himself, and his own iniquity, that he eagerly, and of set purpose, opposes God, aiming at those things which he deems most contrary to the will of God. But as God holds him bound and fettered by the curb of his power, he executes those things only for which permission has been given him, and thus, however unwilling, obeys his Creator, being forced, whenever he is required, to do Him service. 17.11 How comes it, I ask, that their confidence never fails, but just that while the world apparently revolves at random, they know that God is every where at work, and feel assured that his work will be their safety? When assailed by the devil and wicked men, were they 194 not confirmed by remembering and meditating on Providence, they should, of necessity, forthwith despond. But when they call to mind that the devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are, in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how much soever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay, unless in so far as he commands; that they are not only bound by his fetters, but are even forced to do him service,-when the godly think of all these things they have ample sources of consolation. For, as it belongs to the lord to arm the fury of such foes and turn and destine it at pleasure, so it is his also to determine the measure and the end, so as to prevent them from breaking loose and wantoning as they list. Supported by this conviction, Paul, who had said in one place that his journey was hindered by Satan (1 Thess. 2:18), in another resolves, with the permission of God, to undertake it 18.4.1 From the first chapter of Job we learn that Satan appears in the presence of God to receive his orders, just as do the angels who obey spontaneously. The manner and the end are different, but still the fact is, that he cannot attempt anything without the will of God. But though afterwards his power to afflict the saint seems to be only a bare permission, yet as the sentiment is true, “The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; as it pleased the Lord, so it has been done,” we infer that God was the author of that trial of which Satan and wicked robbers were merely the instruments. Satan’s aim is to drive the saint to madness by despair. The Sabeans cruelly and wickedly make a sudden incursion to rob another of his goods. Job acknowledges that he was deprived of all his property, and brought to poverty, because such was the pleasure of God. Therefore, whatever men or Satan himself devise, God holds the helm, and makes all their efforts contribute to the execution of his Judgments. God wills that the perfidious Ahab should be deceived; the devil offers his agency for that purpose, and is sent with a definite command to be a lying spirit in the mouth of all the prophets (2 Kings 22:20). If the blinding and infatuation of Ahab is a Judgment from God, the fiction of bare permission is at an end; for it would be ridiculous for a judge only to permit, and not also to decree, what he wishes to be done at the very time that he commits the execution of it to his ministers. Calvin is a true determinist. Calvin contradicts himself, claiming permission, then claiming permission is a fiction

[@donhaddix3770]

logic. if God predestines everything that include who goes to hell.

[@barnabasalbonetti2536]

Jesus shows that man has will when he was praying that the Father would take this cup from him. He said, but not my will but yours! The man Jesus! But he submits unto the Father! In order for Jesus to be a man, he had to have his own will and deny his own will! Without choice, he would not have been a man! I will say one thing you might not like. God also had a choice! Genesis 1:2--4 shows that he did. If you interpret it the way I do. Genesis verse to is God thinking before he created. It is a riddle of poetry! If we are made in his image, then he had a choice also. He is light because he chose light. If he was robotic, then he would of made us that way! And we would have never fallen.

[@joshbohn2884]

Premise 1: EDD posits that all events, including moral evils, are determined by God. Premise 2: Classical Christian theism claims God is wholly good and does not author evil directly. Premise 3: If EDD is true, it creates a tension with the claim of God being wholly good since He would be the determiner of evil events. Premise 4: Satan, as described in scripture, aims to deceive humanity and challenge the nature of God. Premise 5: The strongest deceptions are those rooted in paradoxes or apparent contradictions within God's nature or actions. Premise 6: Satan does not employ the concept of EDD in scriptural narratives to challenge or question God's benevolent nature. Intermediate Conclusion (from Premises 1, 2, 3, and 5): If EDD was a clear and uncontestable theological concept, it would serve as a significant tool for Satan to use in questioning God's wholly good nature. Final Conclusion (from Intermediate Conclusion and Premise 6): The absence of Satan leveraging EDD in scriptural narratives suggests that either EDD is not an accurate portrayal of divine operations or it's a concept that wasn't considered or understood in the same manner during biblical times

[@SSNBN777]

*_The love of God is the root of all evil._* Oh wait. 1 Timothy 6:10 KJV ... *_the love of money is the root of all evil:_* which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

[@paulmann7297]

This man Piper is deluded.

[@sheilasmith7779]

Either we accept the words of scripture as God's truth or we follow the teachings of others. 2 Tim 3: 16-17, tells us scripture is the only authority. The root of this for Augustine was the issue of evil, its very existence, with the existence of a good God. These 2 could not co exist. Wrong premise, wrong conclusion.

[@buzzbbird]

Satan said, God does not want you to eat of the fruit, because he knows that you will become like him, knowing good and evil. God said, "Look, man has become like us, knowing Good from evil. We must put him out of the Garden, or he will eat of the tree of life" Satan, of course, said this, not to the man who received the command, but to the woman who did not. Regardless of that, Satan did it to cause man to fall. There was evil intent behind his "truth". In like manner, when a Calvinist gives a "truth" it is done to, eventually, promote the false doctrine of Calvinism. I will not evangelize with a Calvinist, nor pray with one, any more than I would do those activities with a Jehovah's Witness or Mormon.

[@jjphank]

God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9! God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined! Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1! Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright ! So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says ! Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue. So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8! But if you’re a Calvinists it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“! Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try! Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!

[@shredhed572]

Proof...... ...that if you torture the data enough it will confess anything you want😅

[@jjphank]

@@shredhed572 youngster, pull your head out and start reading the Bible. We all have start at Ground Zero.! You have to “love the lord, with all your mind, soul heart and strength,”so use your brain to know God’s word! Spend a few hours a day doing this, and then the rest on entertainment instead of the other way around! OSAS- 3 verses in the Bible say your name can be blotted out of the book of life; Psalm 69:28, revelation 3:5, 22:19! Never receiving Jesus is not the only way to go to hell Says Matthew 7:21-23 ; verse 23 ‘away from me I never knew you’ does not apply to everybody, Jesus says this twice in verses 21 and 22! “Not everyone will say to me (on that day)……., yes many will say…..” If OSAS was true he would’ve said “everyone and all” instead of “not everyone and Many”! So not everyone will go to hell based on never knowing Jesus, and other verses will back this up as well! you can no longer use Matthew 7:23 or say they were never saved to begin with! Same with 2 Peter 2 “after knowing the Lord, they went back into their vomit as a dog; or back into the mud as a pig wallowing in the mud”. The word ‘knowing’ is the same word in Matthew 7:23, it’s ‘ginosko’ in the Greek- it’s a salvific relationship with Jesus! So you can lose your salvation, says this verse as well! 2 Peter 2:20 “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning!” THEY ARE ENTANGLED IN THE CORRUPTION OF THE WORLD…AGAIN- says this verse! Jude 12 - “twice dead”; Dead in sin, born again, dead again! And there’s many more; Revelation chapters 2 & 3 are full of ultimatums and all Jesus is focused on is our works! Revelation 2: 5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place! Revelation 2:14 there are some among you….. 16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. These are just 2 and Jesus says “he who overcomes” , Overcomes is present - future tense, and Jesus says this to all 7 churches even the 2 good ones! You have to stay faithful to the end of your life to go to heaven! John 3:16 is he who continues to believe will have eternal life! it doesn’t say ‘believed’ past tense, you have to maintain your faith to go to heaven! The Greek word ‘believes’ is ‘Pistis’ which basically means faithfulness so faith equals faithfulness, according to the Bible! So if you have problems with this, then you have problems with the word of God, the Bible! You need to study these passages so that you can make it to heaven! If your pastor cannot answer these questions according to what I just said, then you need to leave that church!

[@Scotts.Christianity.Teaching]

Why to raise kids Christians. Christian world domination. God Son Jesus said similarly to whoever is useful the most is the best merited of the apostles. Useful merit for eternal rewards and competition with other Christians. With God Son Lord Jesus Christ faith teaching, people will want to be useful for the kingdom of Heaven, which usefulness happens on Earth and if any other place. We need to help this world as much as we can! This text will motivate, supposed to be Christian people, to do all types of usefulness. Chores, volunteering, grade school, high school, college, and work. Good people; this world needs them. New American Standard Bible (NASB) Mark 9:33 (V)They came to Capernaum; and when He was in (W)the house, He began to question them, "What were you discussing on the way?" . Mark 9:34 But they kept silent, for on the way (X)they had discussed with one another which of them was the greatest. . Mark 9:35 Sitting down, He called the twelve and said to them, "(Y)If anyone wants to be first, he shall be last of all and servant of all."

[@zach2980]

“And now, deep thoughts on the fictional subject of my PhD.” ;)

[@theeternalslayer]

Lamentations 5:20 "why do you forsake us o lord? That we may restored, renew our days as of old, and you remain exceedingly angry with us!" They're just angry at God and dont want to admit its their fault as i see it. Go to 2 timothy 1;6 paul repeats again "in christ before ages began." All of this is pointing to the promises of the old testament and the holy spirit of promise that we are sealed with, but basically following the scripture as it says We have to be born again, dead in our sins no longer able to bare our shame and guilt and then we can believe and be reconciled. Everyone i know today says this "I used to go to church but not anymore im not a believer because i never saw anything that confirmed the truth to me." We are just seeing prophecy being fulfilled and some are called but feww respond

[@lifelinesoutreach]

Are you born Again?

[@jonbuono7826]

I am currently seeking a more comprehensive comprehension of the convictions held by synergists. Could someone here kindly provide elucidation on this matter? From a synergist's vantage, it might emerge that throughout the annals of eternity, the Divine Creator gazes down the corridor of time, apprehending the unfolding tapestry of human actions. Within this temporal panorama, the Creator discerns the intricate threads of individual deeds, encompassing even the profound darkness of certain grievous transgressions. Yet, intriguingly, the Creator, having dwelled in the eternity past, seemingly elects against a course of intervention aimed at forestalling these very transgressions. Rather, these sinful acts are allowed to manifest in the unfolding future. The essence of the matter rests in the Creator's refraining from "forcing" individuals into sinful choices, as previously articulated. Equally, the Creator refrains from "forcing" humans toward abstaining from sin. The pivotal crux thus lies in the Creator's acquiescence to the unfolding of these sinful acts. This contemplation beckons the questions: What constitutes the synergist's rationale behind this prospective perspective? Should this perspective indeed be representative, what might underlie the Creator's allowance of these sinful manifestations? Moreover, in the act of permitting such sins, where precisely does the concept of divine benevolence find its place within this paradigm?

[@sparkomatic]

French theology doesn't work.

[@duncescotus2342]

Swiss cheese. full of holes.

[@bravebarnabas]

Joseph's brothers had NO EXCUSE! Atheists have no excuse. Compatibilism leaves no excuse.

[@zach2980]

How is hell justified for not believing a snake once talked and the god that crated it exists?

[@zach2980]

Did god know he would want to cut open the stomachs of the pregnant women before he created them?

[@sorrowinchrist3387]

I feel sad for this guy as Dr James white is right 98% of his video is about something he does not believe. Just always attacking Calvinism's and Dr James White. And on Dr James white channel he stopped and there hardly anything about him. His channel is so deep with many types of topics. Dr James White has been asking if your interested in all the wokness going on? Are you talking about it cause he would love to hear your thoughts rather then keep on bashing Calvinism. You have friends that tell you to ignore James white and he has friends that the same too about you! You channel exist cause of Dr James white so give it credit that you have surges of subscriber cause of Dr James white. Both have stories that is what Dr james white said, your followers quiting calvinism to head to you. And same like wise qutting your man made views to head to Dr James white. Something you need to admit. Dr James white actually won the debate you had with him you did take notes either not very good when he was talking. I suggest you do more debate with him rather then going on holy crusade attacking Dr James white.

[@zacharybaker695]

Was it wrong for Absolom to sleep with all David's concubines? Yes. And yet that event was decreed by God as the punishment for David's sin. And in the end, both temporally and eternally Absolom received the just punishment for his actions.

[@shredhed572]

Sorry, but I haven't watched the entire vid yet, but does it say what you claimed? That Absolom's actions were decreed as punishment for something? As I remember, it was prophesied by the Prophet that the "...sword would not depart from your (David's) house." It doesn't say Absolom' action of sleeping with David's concubines was.... ....unless you're talking about a different kind of "sword" here..

[@cecilspurlockjr.9421]

Really ? That causes you to believe in and accept hard determinism that corruptly portrays GOD and HIS righteousness ? What did David do to receive that punishment, my friend? And what has an infant done to deserve to be predetermined to serve satan instead GOD and burn in the lake of fire for eternity with no choice to do otherwise? Conflating and throwing away context is the main reason we see the very many false doctrines we do and calvinism is most certainly one of them and ridiculous statements and comparisons like you've made here is a prime example .

[@cecilspurlockjr.9421]

@shredhed572 GOD did tell David HE would cause that to happen to him but it was a punishment for a terrible sin , not like an infant that is predetermined to hate GOD and serve satan instead of HIM and to burn in the lake of fire for eternity with no choice to do otherwise like with the predeterminism in calvinism. This guy is ignoring the context of the story and conflating the way one would expect from calvinists. I see this kind of childish mess all of the time from them .

[@zacharybaker695]

2 Samuel 12:11-12 (ESV): Thus says the Lord, ‘Behold, I will raise up evil against you out of your own house. And I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun. 12 For you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel and before the sun.’ He does also say the sword will never leave your house. But I just find it interesting that a sinful act(Absolom committing adultery with David's wives) is used as punishment for a sinful act(adultery with bathsheba) So God decreed that Absolom should do those things. Then he was punished for it.

[@cecilspurlockjr.9421]

@@zacharybaker695 why do you find that so interesting? We see this type of punishment from GOD for extreme sins against HIM in scripture several times .

[@Philip3]

Amen piper 🙏

[@lincolnwillis3345]

True. He is a man

[@jjphank]

God wants all men to be saved first Timothy 2:4, second peter 3:9! God, predestines groups or plurals only, never individuals. Ephesians 1 -2 points: “ us and we” are pre-destined never “you and I“! And 11 times in 11 verses from 3-14 you have to remain “in Christ“ (in him, in whom) to be predestined! Romans 9:1-3 Paul is talking about the nation of Israel, all the way to the end of chapter 11 ! So, “Jacob, I loved, Esau I hated“ is genesis 25:23 “there are two nations in your womb“! It’s talking about ‘Nations,’ not individuals in the whole context of those three chapters! Stop taking it out of context, along with Ephesians 1! Of course, we have the story of Jacob and Esau and how Esau despised his birthright ! So God truly does love all people, he truly did make hell for the devil and his angels just as Matthew 25:41 says ! Even the 42 youths, mauled by the 2 bears, was because they mocked Elijah‘s rapture, a.k.a. the resurrection , they were saying “go on up Baldy “ ; and ALL their prophets just recently Were killed by Elijah and they should’ve known to stop worshiping Baal! Bethel was the headquarters of Baal worship, where this took place! 490 priests got killed by Elijah, There was no Priests around,; should’ve been a gigantic clue. So God never arbitrarily and haphazardly deals with any human being ! His love cannot be measured says Romans 8! But if you’re a Calvinists it’s “his love cannot be measured , (Wink, wink)“! Come out of the false belief system of Calvinism ! Now you have no excuse because you cannot out argue this, let’s hear you try! Read Matthew 25 the parable of the Calvinists, a.k.a. talents ! Where the guy buried his talent calling God,- somebody who doesn’t judge rightly & he was thrown into hell as a result! He had the wrong view of God, & So Will a Calvinist, they’ll have a callous view of God & The love of Christs sacrificial death on the cross!