Calvinism Affects Apologetics w/

Does Calvinism inhibit apologetics? In short, yes! If you hold to consistent Calvinism, your apologetics will reflect your deterministic soteriology which begs the question, why would you invest time in apologetics if theistic determinism, i.e. Calvinism, is true? Dr. Leighton Flowers is joined by Frank Turek of Cross Examined to discuss how Calvinism affects Apologetics.
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[@thewild5]

"God is so sovereign, that He can get His will done through our free will." Bravo, well stated! Yes, yes, yes!

[@SundayVibesmusic]

Is there any possible universe in which we as humans could have not killed Christ? Is it possible that our savior actually would have never died on a cross for our sins? And if not how are we “free” the very fact that we are not sovereign and God is shows we don’t actually have autonomous free will as God does. Our “free will” is nothing more than me as a parent allowing my 2 year old to run freely in the house..but I’ve limited him from going out the front door and absolutely have limited him from driving down the street or buying plane tickets to fly to another country. He is “free” but there’s levels…and as a teenager I’m sure he won’t feel as “free” the more he realizes how limited he is. We say things like God is sovereign but that again is an admission to the fact that we are not. What does it mean for God to be sovereign? He can do as he pleases..we’re we can do as we please but under the confinements of Gods restrictions. I can heal at will..God can..I can’t know all things..God does..I can’t even do the things God wants me to do lol I literally need his Spirit, I need his life in me. The Bible literally talks about predestined. The Bible talks about knowing man in the mothers womb..the Bible talks about raising a man up for a specific time. Free will is limited and in that regard freedom isn’t really free

[@jesuslover6497]

This statement is brilliant!

[@toddstracke9267]

The statement is also unbiblical. I’m more than willing to be shown that it is biblical however.

[@ivylagrone8632]

@@toddstracke9267 why do you think it is unbiblical?

[@toddstracke9267]

@@ivylagrone8632 because the Bible denies human free will and repeatedly emphasizes that the Lord does whatever He pleases in heaven and on earth and never even hints at God limiting Himself for the sake of human autonomy.

[@cvent8454]

Dr. Flowers, before you came along and explained Provisionism I never felt comfortable aligning with either Arminianism or Calvinism. Both always seemed to fall short of the totality of who God is. So, I just went along thinking I must be a terrible Christian or that I was missing something somewhere. Then, I began watching your videos and it all fell into place for me. I no longer felt like a stranger in a strange land. I've supported your ministry ever since. Thank you.

[@greenbeans4796]

Same here. Well said. 🙏

[@SundayVibesmusic]

nothing more than me as a parent allowing my 2 year old to run freely in the house..but I’ve limited him from going out the front door and absolutely have limited him from driving down the street or buying plane tickets to fly to another country. He is “free” but there’s levels…and as a teenager I’m sure he won’t feel as “free” the more he realizes how limited he is. We say things like God is sovereign but that again is an admission to the fact that we are not. What does it mean for God to be sovereign? He can do as he pleases..we’re we can do as we please but under the confinements of Gods restrictions. I can heal at will..God can..I can’t know all things..God does..I can’t even do the things God wants me to do lol I literally need his Spirit, I need his life in me. The Bible literally talks about predestined. The Bible talks about knowing man in the mothers womb..the Bible talks about raising a man up for a specific time. Free will is limited and in that regard freedom isn’t really free. I truly want to see what you guys are seeing because I’m absolutely missing it. I hate when people deem us as Calvinist as if we’re “second class citizens” or unworthy of love..this channel and the comments are the reason why I’ll never want to be among this company..the hatred sucks if I’m being honest. A Christian channel that isn’t aimed at sharing the gospel or talking about things that really matter like human trafficking or how to reach the lost..it’s just a bunch of people who hatch many Christian’s for a doctrine that isn’t even primary…it’s just sad..Christian’s times can be spent doing so much more

[@eugenejoseph7076]

Freewill has no limitations! That's why we're in this mess! People will soon worship the Antichrist as God. Do you really believe that God allows it or He lets people make their own free choice to worship the devil?

[@Jus4kiks]

@@SundayVibesmusic a man is sovereign over his house, even though he doesn’t determine all of his wife’s actions. Calvinists believe God can do anything but be sovereign and choose to give man free will. Keep listening to Non Calvinists, and eventually the light switch will flip - and your eyes will open and all the verses will fall like dominos - non of them mean what you think in Calvinism. I’ve been there, it will click eventually but you have to stop listening to Calvinists so it stops being hammered into your brain. -- how I was able to get out of it, Ty God!!! Check out Steve Gregg’s 14 part series called Gods sovereignty and man’s free will. It will help. God bless.

[@SundayVibesmusic]

@@Jus4kiks with all due respect yes I agree with you man is “sovereign” over the house but you can’t compare my “sovereignty” over my house to the All Mighty Gods sovereignty. It seems silly the comparison you’re making..I can’t even stop myself from getting sick..or what if the power goes off in my home? What about if a tornado or flood destroys my home. Again I mean no disrespect but this is what I’m talking about. Yes on a basic level of understanding and every day talk I get what you’re saying but logically and biblically the two are nothing alike. You can’t compare anything to God and that is the point..when you try to give human examples of what God is like you’ll always fall short

[@scottthong9274]

My friend who is a Calvinist and professional apologist told the audience, and I quote, "God is responsible for evil, but God is not to blame for evil" 🤦‍♂️

[@jameschristiantaylor123]

That is what many Calvinist state. That God causes/determines all things, but yet, since He is God, He is somehow not responsible for them in some mysterious way. The Bible is very clear. God is good. We need to keep that in our minds, hearts, and souls. That God really is GOOD.

Make that make sense.

[@scottthong9274]

@ Haha the emcee literally said "Wow that makes my mind crazy"

[@andrewjackson8244]

Two guys I love listening to and they are having a discussion? Don't tempt me with a good time 😁

[@thewild5]

Agreed!

[@kevinteichroeb6997]

I always appreciate the groundedness Dr. Turek brings to Christian apologetics.

[@greenbeans4796]

Thank you for defending Gods character. Great show!

[@frankieparley]

Frank has always been sound on the Christian basics, in my experience, and his critique of Calvinism is also sound. Always great to listen to him and his Jersey accent, especially in conversation with Leighton!

[@timfoster5043]

imho, this is one of Turek's big weak points. Well, this, and his difficulty with plainly answering a person that they're going to hell if they don't believe in Jesus Christ to save them from their sins. (there's a video out there)

[@leonardu6094]

@@timfoster5043 This was one of his weak points?

[@timfoster5043]

@@leonardu6094 Yes. It's hard to think that someone of his caliber hasn't studied Calvinism well, but his comments on why he thinks Calvinism doesn't work are quite shallow. They're a clear indicator that he ought to spend more time checking it out.

[@leonardu6094]

@@timfoster5043 it could be the case, but i won't know for sure until you are more specific on the specific reason he cited you think is shallow.

[@timfoster5043]

@@leonardu6094 I don't remember them (plural) off the top of my head. I'll have to go back through the video and check it out.

[@ebercondrell6603]

I talked to a Cavlinist pastor once who said he would consider using a free will argument while doing apologetics, mind blowing.

[@jimhughes1070]

Yep, 😂😂

[@sskuk1095]

Love it!😂

[@LetsTalkChristMinistries]

Great discussion. I’ve been watching both guys for years. I’ve learned a lot from both their ministries.

[@trebmaster]

I love Mr. Turek's comparison of Calvigod to Allah. That is true and it's an elephant in the room, AND it describes some of the shared blunt instrument behaviors between Islamic faith and Calvinists.

[@jesuschristsaves9067]

And how sweet James white is to them.

[@fantasia55]

Calvinism is influenced by Islamic theology.

[@josephgarrett3075]

The comparison is ignorant and incomplete. It's akin to when atheists try to lump Christianity, Judaism and Islam into "Abrahamic religions". the god of Islam is capricious. The Triune God Yahweh is not. Islam rejects the deity of Christ and the crucifixion and faith alone for salvation; so a "comparison" is weak at best. Shall we be compared to Muslims and Jews because " hey look! We're all monotheists! "

[@josephgarrett3075]

@@jesuschristsaves9067 You mean by debating them, correcting them.....sharing with them the true Christ and Savior?? Or are only non-Muslims to be evangelized??

[@jesuschristsaves9067]

@@josephgarrett3075 No one mentioned anything about evangelism. But since you’ve introduced the topic. We see how glorified white is by the Muslim community. Where are the ex-Muslims he’s lead to the lord? ZERO. Christian prince, Hatun Tash, David Wood, Jay Smith, Sam Shamoun etc.. have testimonials from ex-Muslims, and how their ministry has lead them to Jesus Christ. Yet, they are hated by the Muslim community. With white, it’s the opposite. The correct gospel? What Calvinism? No sir. Calvinism is not the “true” gospel.

[@chaosinorder9685]

Glad to see Frank is turning against Calvinism because he never believed it but now that he sees the horrible things it entails he’s definitely as against it as we are

[@Nicky-hr1qz]

Long before Calvin with with John Calvin subscribe to what they now call Calvinism long before he subscribe to that the Bible had already subscribe to it but that hit you because Frank Turek knows that we are chosen without him first choosing us and drawing Us near him that's what the Bible says so the Bible makes it clear not everybody's chosen that's why there's even a series called The Chosen that's right because not everybody's chosen but we God knows everything so God knows who would have chose him back who would have believed the gospel and who would not have that's why there's some that are chosen something or not

[@chaosinorder9685]

@@Nicky-hr1qz ?? What?

[@josephgarrett3075]

What specifically, are the horrible things it entails?

[@raymatthews4319]

Calvinists may or not be poor but one thing is certain: they are far removed from humble.

[@Nicky-hr1qz]

@@Rileyed God knew us when we were in our mother's womb also the other thing is is it God chose us we cannot go to God's without him choosing us the Bible makes it clear us on her own do not go to God on her own because we love our sin God has to choose us he draws Us near him anybody who gets saved that includes atheist and others murderers Etc when they get saved it's because they were chosen and he knows God knows everything so obviously God knows who was going to choose him back who would never ever accept it the Bible is very clear on the chosen ones that's why they even have a series called The Chosen it's extremely biblical everybody's not chosen with those of us that are born again obviously are you have a problem with that you might want to talk to God cuz God makes the rules and he knows he knows who will choose him back and he knows who will never accept the gospel no matter what we don't get to make the rules God did

[@josephbachota]

Dr Michael Brown in a debate with James White said the same thing Frank said here. that Calvinist don’t take Gods sovereignty enough as to where God has to rig the game to make His will work instead of making it work in spite of our free will

[@ZelphBones]

Are both saved?

[@josephbachota]

@@ZelphBones are you referring to Dr Michael Brown and James White? If so then yes. They just defer in how God does the saving, but yes.

[@jaggededge7155]

God is so sovereign that us having a free will doesn't in any way effect him.

[@HeIS-Isaiah45]

perfection

[@gregpierce9800]

I read your book Frank, years ago, turned me around. Thanks, Frank

[@markever234]

Here is a thought I just had. How does one grow more in Christ (sanctification) if he effectually causes our will and actions?

[@glennishammont7414]

Not resisting the inner work of His Spirit, that aleays remains a choice.

[@spiritedtoday]

Psalm 143:7 - 12

[@angeliquaserenity5009]

We cannot choose to be saved. We can however choose to answer God's call for us to be saved.

[@spiritedtoday]

Psalm 145:9 " The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works."

[@Superado2006]

"Stricter or higher calvinism" is just the inevitable end of where all calvinism leads.

[@monaroxyclio]

Wow great conversation. These are essentially all of the thoughts I have been having about Calvinism, which I'm beginning to think is heresy.

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

Heresy is a word that should be reserved for something like non-trinitarianism. They're wrong, that's enough.

[@Blessedpb]

I think Bro Turek has hit on a big part of it "easier". HOWEVER, it is likely just the newness of the subject and the peer groups pressure to learn it. I've always presented that God's sovereignty bestowed us with free will and even with that....His plans are never thwarted. Nothing is impossible for God!!!

[@michaelbock5111]

I love listening to Leighton Flowers and Frank Turek discuss this. However, I lean. toward the Calvinistic side because of my own experience of when I was born again. I was a progressive Christian and was dead set against conservative Christianity. I thought I was practicing historical Christianity (as Alisa Childers calls it) with just a few tweaks but I was dead wrong. They talk about in this video God playing chess. I felt he was playing chess with me and checkmated me. I could not understand what was happening to me at the time. I think with people like me or Jay Warner Wallace or Greg Koukl I think our experience leads us to Calvinism but I still love apologetics. With that being said I do appreciate all the work Leighton does on this channel and I plan to read his Provisionism book because I am open to changing my mind. One point about Calvinists appealing to mystery....I think the likes of Sproul, Macarthur and Alistair Begg appeal to mystery because Paul does in Romans 11:33 "33 Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!"

[@Adam-gm5tm]

There is no Gospel under Calvinism. If you are of the elect than you were never in danger of going to hell. If you are not of the elect you never had a Savior, and there is no good news. Just believe the Gospel we read in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

[@glennishammont7414]

What was meant for you, is meant for everyone, no one excluded, the only reason people will not inherit salvation is their own choice to resist His Spirit, or going back to a godless lifestyle, yes you can loose your salvation.

[@Adam-gm5tm]

@@glennishammont7414 The Lord Jesus says in John 6:47, Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believes on Me HATH everlasting life.

[@thebluedoorstep647]

i am glad that you saw the error in progressive Christianity. I hope that you keep on seeking for truth because the basis for Calvinism is also in error which is discussed here. With Calvinism there is NO free will. God is ALWAYS sovereign and man has no ability whatsoever to respond freely but only the way that God sovereignly decrees each person will ie. accept or reject . Many people have had to be de-programmed after being indoctrinated into it.

[@timfoster5043]

Every theologian appeals to mystery somewhere along the way. (If they don't, then it means they understand all of God.) There are really only 2 questions here: - where do they appeal to mystery? - are there passages in the Bible that make the same appeal to mystery? - - - - - Arminians: God is sovereign, but man is still free. We don't know how that works. It's a mystery. Provisionists: God is so sovereign, He's able to use man's free will to accomplish His will. We don't know how that works. It's a mystery. Calvinists: God is sovereign, and man cannot resist His will. Yet man is still culpable. We don't know how that works. It's a mystery. (Rom 9)

[@JSAY1069]

This reminds me of a recent STR podcast where Greg was trying to explain sovereignty to a teen caller. It was really bad. I'm an STR Strategic Partner and love the work that they do, but this is one area where Greg seems to get lost.

[@truthseeker5698]

I’ve emailed and called STR. The inconsistency Greg continues to subscribe to of reformed calvinism immensely diminishes his ministry Integrity matters. Calvinism reformed theology are absurd in basic application of faith.

[@christianhalkides5707]

Frank is awesome

[@heresmytake2782]

love Frank he speaks plainly and on my level

[@BornToPun7541]

I really like both A. W. Tozer's and Tim Stratton's takes on God's sovereignty.

[@canadiankewldude]

*_God Bless_* your work online helping God's children.

[@Pixieeeveryday]

Amen! Thank you for this video.

[@carlolapuz3776]

1:59 I just want to address the elephant in the room. If the Calvinists believe that God is the author of evil, do we even have the same God?

[@Jammaster1972]

No, in fact I was a little shocked when Frank conceded that the Calvinist's can "make a case." Though Frank admits that their case is interpreted wrong, I would go as far as to say it's not even a case. It's heresy (strong word here), but that's just my opinion.

[@josieb1991]

I have wondered that too, I struggle when I hear our brothers and sisters who are calvinist but yet its not my place to judge a persons heart.

[@ingela_injeela]

The "Calvigod" looks a lot like "Allah".

[@deborahd2936]

I didn’t know there was another option back in the day for many years! Now my eyes are open!

[@Azurewroth]

The free will defense for the problem of evil cannot be used by the Calvinist and leaves their position wide open to various criticism concerning the character of God as the ultimate cause of evil. It is hard to imagine how Calvinists can defend God as being maximally good when their perspective of God is not an all-loving one. It is even more incomprehensive how a God who for the sake of his His own glory, specifically creates and determines certain people to be unable to accept the gospel, and then punishes them in hell eternally for not being able to do, can somehow be considered to be Love itself, as the Bible defines it. The removal of free will not only undermines moral responsibility, it also destroys what love is all about. Love that is not free is not love, it is just programming, but apparently the love potion type of love can somehow actually be considered genuine love in Calvinism. How does one remove the freedom to choose from the concept of love itself? This is just completely unthinkable.

[@JesusPPK]

God used lying spirits & wicked spirits to bring about his judgment. He also used holy spirits to do the same. Where do we go from here?

[@Azurewroth]

@@JesusPPK If evil already exists in this world, and God permits it to happen as a form of his judgement, what is wrong with that?

[@quinnpeterson2716]

Isaiah 10 literally says that God used them as the rod of his indignation.. “though they did not intend and their heart did not so desire.” Lol.

[@Azurewroth]

@@quinnpeterson2716 Neither did the babylonians, the persians, or the romans for that matter, intended or desired to be God's instrument of judgement, simply because they did not know that they were doing God's will, and were not servants of God.That does not imply that God forced them to be as such or gave them the desire to. Even we as humans can use somebody apart from their knowledge without needing to force them to, much more God. There is nothing in that verse that implies determinism and you are eisegeting.

[@OrthodoxJourney359]

You should have Fr. Josiah Trenham on. He was a student of RC Sproul but now an Eastern Orthodox Pastor.

[@joatmon6132]

I came across this channel about a week ago. Excellent channel, Thanks for discussing these subjects, and this one in particular.

[@BEABEREAN10]

I've always argued that it takes no real power to make a barbie doll do what you want. But it takes much power to overcome free will of Jackie chan and beat him in a fight. Us having free will actually reveals just how supremely powerful God is.

[@dw6528]

*CRITICAL UNDERSTANDING CONCERNING CALVINISM AND SCRIPTURE* There is a critical weakness which all Calvinists have with scripture. The following instructions to all Calvinists by John Calvin himself reveals what it is: -quote Each ought to so apply himself to his office *AS-IF NOTHING* were determined about *ANY* part. (Concerning the Eternal Predestination of god pg 171) When one scrutinized Calvinist behavior - this is in fact what one will constantly see. 1) The doctrine is *SAID* to be what scripture teaches 2) The doctrine strictly stipulates that *EVERYTHING* that comes to pass is determined in *EVERY* part. 3) However - in order to retain a sense of human normalcy - the Calvinist is forced to go about his office just as John Calvin instructs *AS-IF NOTHING* is determined in *ANY* part. 4) This is what you will observe. The Calvinist will consistently treat his own doctrine *AS-IF* it is FALSE - in order to retain a sense of human normalcy. 5) In doing so - the Calvinist automatically treats what scripture teaches him *AS-IF* it is FALSE QUESTION: Where does the scripture instruct the believer - to treat scripture *AS-IF* what it teaches is FALSE? CONCLUSION: One of the Calvinist's most grandiose claims - is that his doctrine (divine determinism) is what scripture specifically teaches. Divine Determinism is *THE MOST SACRED* of all that scripture teaches him. Yet he lives *AS-IF* what scripture teaches him is FALSE Thus his own behavior betrays his relationship with scripture.

[@josieb1991]

That says it all, they follow a man's teaching and not the scripture

[@brianhill3219]

Has anyone ever met someone who studied the Bible and came to believe that it teaches Calvinism but they also came to realize they unfortunately were not one of the pre-chosen elect? In other words, I have never met a Calvinist who did not think they were one of the elect.

[@margriettalen6713]

They say they do not have free will, yet they freely choose to believe that they are “chosen”. That does not make sense. They also believe they do not have to go out to the ends of the earth and tell everyone about hat Christ did for them.

[@Jus4kiks]

Of course not. You have to be taught it.

[@Jammaster1972]

No, but I've run into a lot of them who were confused and worried that they weren't chosen. Illogical, right? Right.

[@janwilson6763]

Sadly, I have heard people use the Calvinist view as an excuse to not believe. They blame God, who they don't believe in, for their rebellion against Him. SMH

[@Jammaster1972]

@@janwilson6763 This is why I think the doctrine came from Satan. Is he not the accuser constantly condemning but never taking responsibility for his own actions? Satan to God: "God you created me to fail so that you would get all of the glory (that Satan himself covets). The whole system was rigged from the beginning." See what I mean?

[@ReapWhatUSow52]

I really respect Dr. Turek, does a great job debating topics. But to be completely honest, some of his answers rubbed me wrong. I think a thought Calvinists have about the other side is we think too highly of ourselves and that we don't see the seriousness of sin. I say that to compliment Leighton. You have really grown and understood what the best arguments are and how to present them. Your focus in soteriology has truly blessed others and I thank you my brother! Keep working for the kingdom

[@MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

Right, I mean who are we praying for, who are we helping to save, God has done everything already, according to them.

[@ronwolcott5839]

My favorite apologists.God bless you and thank you.

[@clarkl4177]

❤ Your calmly, kindly, clearly presented perspective is Spot On 💪 Thank you so very much!

[@gregorylatta8159]

Calvinism is counterintuitive!!!

[@cecilspurlockjr.9421]

As well as counterscriptural .

[@gregorylatta8159]

@@cecilspurlockjr.9421 🙏 A Calvinist just called me unsaved because I disagree with him???

[@cecilspurlockjr.9421]

@gregorylatta8159 Was his name Manny or alethia . I get that several times a week from several different ones, Gregory. That and pelagian, semi pelagian, self determiner, freewiller, etc.. they just can't contain their hatred it seems . They like to tell me what I believe and why i believe it and how it's because I'm such a terrible person that is a child of satan . Lol

[@gregorylatta8159]

@@cecilspurlockjr.9421 That is because they believe God is the author of evil. Who does that sound like??? Hint 😈

[@cecilspurlockjr.9421]

@gregorylatta8159 It doesn't just sound like it, my friend. The describe the desires of GOD to be that of satan's as far as desiring people to burn in the lake of fire for eternity with no choice to do otherwise when we see plainly , e okicitly in scripture that GOD desires all to be saved and that none should perish. 1 John 2 : 2 tells us that CHRIST is the propitiation for our sins and not only ours but for the sins of the whole world . Hebrews 2 : 9 says that CHRIST tasted death for every man. Titus 2 : 11 says that the grace that brings salvation has appeared to all men and John 12 : 32 tells us it's because CHRIST has drawn all men unto HIMSELF. And there are many, many more full atonement passages, but the stipulation is that one must believe .

[@maksymgudyma]

Thanks brothers.

[@JudeMichaelPeterson]

Trent Horn against James White is one of the best debates on this topic.

[@AlexanderosD]

Calvinists have chosen freely to give more loyalty to their reformed theology camp and their 'doctrines of grace', than loyalty to the Lord.

[@Jammaster1972]

I've always said they are more interested in converting people to Calvinism, than they are to Christ. Does it make sense the world had to wait 15 centuries after Christ to get clarity on the doctrine of salvation? Of course, NOT.

[@PBAdventures146]

Jeremiah 19:5 Kind of makes it quite clear from my perspective. "They have built pagan shrines to Baal, and there they burn their sons as sacrifices to Baal. I have never commanded such a horrible deed; it never even crossed my mind to command such a thing!" NLT.... Seems to be 100% proof that humanity does things that never crossed God's mind to command man to do. So they where doing things completely outside of God's choice.

[@josieb1991]

Oh my goodness, I had to look that up and read the chapter, that is amazing. Those people were doing things that never even entered into God's mind to command. You are right that does make it quite clear.

[@yesitis1395]

As a Calvinist, here to listen to those who disagree with me, so that I can better investigate ways to love others and also what I believe, Mr. Flowers does a good job of being kind to his opponents. Mr. Turek, not so much.

[@kevinburtnick7818]

EXCELLENT!!!!!!!

[@bridgetgolubinski]

2 of my favorite people!

[@bobbyadkins6983]

How could anyone who believes in hard determinism ever feel guilty for their sins? And how could there even be such a thing as sin if we are doing exactly what God wants us to do? Sin is going against God's will. If hard determinism is true, then when we sin we are going against and doing the will of God at the same exact time. Try to make sense of that.

[@KM-zn3lx]

Good point!

[@davidschrodt507]

What is the best book you recommend as a critique of Calvinism?

[@Jammaster1972]

The Holy Bible. LOL, just kidding.

[@dman7668]

lol

[@youflatscreentube]

I just had an analogy come to mind as Leighton mentioned God “Not having to play both sides of the chessboard to ensure His own victory.” A grandmaster chess player is so skilled and confident that even when he plays against the most crafty opponents he allows his young, inexperienced, and beloved grandson to make every other move on his turn. And, to the amazement of all watching, in the face of a humiliated opponent the grandmaster wins yet again. All the while his grandson is learning from him, but most importantly, they are becoming very, very close to one another. This view seems to demonstrate an even more sovereign and loving character. Also, it makes a “public display” of the humiliation of an opponent that have lied about the grandmaster’s sovereignty!

[@INSPIREDGenerationMedia]

I love to be there on the debate of James White and Dr. Leighton Flowers if only I am in the US but I'm in the other parts of the world particularly in the Philippines.

[@SpotterVideo]

I knew there was something wrong with "Calvinism" when a Calvinist I knew said little children should not be allowed to sing the song "Jesus Loves Me", because he said Jesus does not love all children. Augustine was trying to get children into an Old Covenant relationship with God through water baptism. The term "new covenant" is not found in the man-made confessions of Reformed Covenant Theology, even though it is in the Bible multiple times. This is the rotten fruit produced by confusing the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai, and the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary. New Covenant Whole Gospel: What the modern Church needs is a New Covenant Revival (Heb. 9:10) in which members of various denominations are willing to re-examine everything they believe and see if it agrees with the Bible, instead of the traditions of men. We need to be like the Bereans. It will be a battle between our flesh and the Holy Spirit. It will not be easy. If you get mad and upset when someone challenges your man-made Bible doctrines, that is your flesh resisting the truth found in God's Word. Nobody can completely understand the Bible unless they understand the relationship between the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai and the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary. What brings all local churches together into one Body under the blood of Christ? The answer is found below. Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him. He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14. Awaken Church to this truth. Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by husband unto them, saith the LORD: Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? What did Paul say about Genesis 12:3 in Galatians 3:8? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart. Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (John 1:49, Acts 2:36) We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24. 1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. The following verses prove the Holy Spirit is the master teacher for those now in the New Covenant. Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. Watch the KZbin videos “The New Covenant” by David Wilkerson, or Bob George, and David H.J. Gay.

[@joshuabecker9615]

When 2 of your favorite apologists collab on a video. 👍

[@joshuabecker9615]

The thought came across my mind the other day. If God is determining everything than why is the world going to be destroyed and there will be a new heavens and a new earth?

[@BloodBoughtMinistries]

Yes say it like it is. Calvin-ism has a different God.

[@JD-yq3dd]

I tend to think this as well

[@jcaraway8206]

This is good stuff

[@sheilasmith7779]

The question of evil was Augustine's struggle. He considered human catastrophe like famine, illness or storms, evil. So if the belief about what evil is, is wrong, wont the cause or response to it be wrong? Essentially Augustine struggled with the existence of all unpleasant human experiences, and the existence of a morally good God. Out of that came an either/or belief. A false dichotomy.

[@fantasia55]

Augustine was a Catholic priest. John Calvin would have had him burned at the stake.

[@davidjoly9816]

I think part of the problem with Calvinism, is reading theology back into the text, rather than reading theology out of the text. One example is the use of the words "choose", "chose", "chosen", etc. These words have taken on a theological weight beyond what is demanded by scripture. John 6:70-71 is a demonstration of this: Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.” He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray him. Calvinism frequently reads the doctrine of unconditional election into the word "choose" when God is doing the choosing. But here, Jesus chose Judas? So is Jesus referring to a choosing to salvation? No. Jesus is referring to the selection of his disciples.

[@jimhughes1070]

Well said... That pops into my mind occasionally😂... Just know that we have the other thousand pages of the Bible to back us up! 🤣👍🙏

[@JudeMichaelPeterson]

Jimmy Akin has a really good study in the word, "chosen," in scripture that shows how the word is abused in modern dialogue on this issue, it's well worth the read.

[@jimhughes1070]

@@JudeMichaelPeterson hey Jude... (See what I did there?)🤣... I know you've heard it a thousand times!! 😍🙏... Thanks very much but I'm not confused at all on the issue!... In fact it's so clear and simple, "that a fool, though he were a wayfaring man from another country, should not err therein" 👍🙏... Pride and overthinking is the problem... In fact I've been through that trial a few times!! 👍 Again! Thank you for your service! You are very kind sir!!! 🙏

[@JudeMichaelPeterson]

@@jimhughes1070 my comment was in agreement with the original comment. I would be wary of fearing overthinking, I've never heard anyone concerned about overthinking who was not themselves under thinking. No offense intended, that's just a phrase I've learned to hate after hearing it many a time from under thinking people in leadership positions.

[@jimhughes1070]

@@JudeMichaelPeterson that's a good point my friend!! I was trying to think of something considerate to say (I actually know why they do what they do)... I always hated "he's overconfident!!" 🤣🤣🤣... In the case of 2,000 religions built on One book 🤣... That's the definition and "poster boy" of overthinking! 🤣... A single line out of "gone with the wind" could never draw so many " interpretations"... The book is straight forward... Including warnings against gendering "confusion"😭 if one's argument is "based" (that's what the book "says") then you're standing on pretty good ground. Arguing against the plain script,... I would say that is... "not inspired by the author" 🤣(you know the one that created the cause and effect universe) wherever you fall on "so simple that a fool, no he were a wayfaring man, should not err there in"... Thank you for looking out for your fellow man! 🙏🙏👍

[@MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

Take Joseph. I heard Jeff speak on this to prove his doctrine. How he says see God said it was not because of the brothers that Joseph landed in Egypt as a means to say, "See God made his brothers want to kill and then decide to sell him." Well, yes and no. Yes, God is the reason Joseph landed in Egypt, but no God did not make them desire to commit sin. I would mention that God intervened in a way. When He gave Joseph his vision, and when Joseph told his brothers, they became wrought with jealousy. Not because God created them that way but because Joseph told them the vision, and because of the hardness of their heart, they became jealous, which led to them selling Joseph.

[@Hicky33]

Need help. What are the best proofs (quotes, articles etc. from leading calvinists) that show determinism is the cornerstone of Calvinism? I know one pastor denying God determines every choices and accusing me of misrepresenting his Calvinism.

[@davidgarnica1085]

Posted the link to the debate they referenced 😅

[@bradfoland2127]

We have free will to choose but God knows who will choose Him and who won’t. Thus, a Calvinistic view on sovereignty is not contradictory to free will. Only God can open our hearts to know him but we still freely choose. We evangelize because we don’t know what God already knows. It’s his ordained mechanism. No man can ever take credit for endeavoring towards his salvation. Mystery? Indeed. Just like so many other mysteries about God that we accept due to our admitted inability to be all knowing.

[@anthonydefreitas5734]

I've enjoyed listening to your articulate, in-depth and rigorous discussions on this intriguing topic...with huge implications. Thank you for your honest, unemotional assessment even when describing others' positions. I have to agree with your position, one that highlights the impartial love of God for all. Titus 2:¹¹; 3:²-⁴ Ben made an interesting observation about the negative effect on evangelizing the Calvinist view has. The Christian movement I'm part of has zealously proclaimed the Bible's message and esp. the Kingdom theme (Matthew 24:¹⁴) for the past 100 years to ALL nations and peoples precisely because it is impartially available to everyone. 1Tim.2:⁴-⁶ Our official website is now in over 1,050 languages!

[@trebmaster]

The Calvinist answer to theodicy/problem of evil/Epicurean paradox is to deflect. That's their only recourse is purely dodging it.

[@mr.jollybear5180]

I have a question comprised of several questions. Jesus Christ's crucifixion, was it predestined? What did determine it if so predestined? What made the outcome certain? Or was Jesus Christ’s crucifixion was something God foresaw in the future that would happen and hence foretold about?

[@bjacres7057]

My question is why would God give us free will if he didn't want us to choose salvation? Or if the game is rigged why even let the "unchosen" even live? Another question I have is if salvation is only for the chosen what was the point of the crucifixion?

[@matts.6558]

The reason many choose to be Calvinists is because of their charismatic leaders

[@chasep2001]

God can take bad situations and use them to further His will. That doesn't mean He created the bad situation. God can take bad people and use them further His will. That doesn't mean He made them bad.

[@coreykeplinger3391]

How do I know personally Calvinism is not true? By the Spirit God has given me.

[@jordanrouden6440]

Dr. Flowers, respectfully to you and Mr. Turek, I have yet to hear either of you deal with WCF 3, which addresses many of the points raised in this video concerning God being the author of sin and no free will in Calvinism. Perhaps taking some time to tackle reformed teaching on first (primary) causes and secondary causes may be useful.

[@LightBright708]

I always thought it was interesting that a person could think that they do not have the ability to believe that Jesus died on a cross and rose again three days later. Yet people all over the world believe in things that are crazier than that.

[@somethingtothinkabout167]

Perhaps we are always free to choose for we have been given choices but not free to not choose or claim that which is not on offer.

[@clintbeacock7663]

I think most here would agree to that, but it just skirts the main issue- namely- is the gospel offered to all or just some. Calvinists say some, provisionists say all. I think the Bible supports the latter consistently, whereas I feel there are only a few passages that really make a feasible case for the former, and require a very counter-intuitive reading of many very clear passages.

[@OkieAllDay]

According to Calvinism: your prayers, fasting, evangelism, and apologetics don't make a single difference in somebody coming to Christ. All that matters is if you are one of the lucky few that God wanted to save. That's it.

[@seanelgin]

Actually, though I am not a settled Calvinist, it is my belief that your first statement is absolutely true, and I'm not sure the second one isn't true, either. But at least in your first statement, at least in my understanding, none of that makes a difference, because it is God that must draw us to him. Prayers, fasting, and evangelism, much like apostolic miracles such as healing ... the purpose of all these things is NOT for our glory, or for our credit, but for God's glory. We do these things because God COMMANDS us to do these things, in the Great Commission, in his commandments, etc. - NOT because they may or may not be effective in "winning" or "converting" anyone to Christianity. God does the work - salvation is through faith alone - not from our works, nor from the works of anyone trying to evangelize.

[@Steelblaidd]

And if your theology is sufficiently different you're going to hell, and all they have to do is stand there and tell you so.

[@aquinasrost]

Frank hit the nail on the head when he said calvinism promotes the idea of whatever God wills is good. This is exactly what medieval Islamic scholars argued, and even Martin Luther held to a voluntarist view. However, whatever God wills is good MUST be consistent with his nature, otherwise God is a relativist. This is the problem set forth in Plato's Euthyphro's dilemma.

[@jbishsr]

What is Geisler's answer to the question he asked Gershner?

[@PBAdventures146]

I view God's sovereignty as a chess game as you mentioned, which is the first time I've heard someone use the same example. But God inhabits all of eternity. So He inhabits the past, present... and future. So He is already in the future, which means He knows every move on the chess board that will be made and He has made his moves already in His soveriegn plan to bring about His will. How do you fool or beat someone who's already living in the future and knows every little move you will make since eternity past? So God doesn't need to choose for us. He has already in the future responded based on the moves we are now making in the present. It's impossible for a chess player with that capability to not win. And God wins.... plain and simple. God living in the future is one of the things that I think MOST people miss, not just Calvinists. If God inhabits eternity past present and future, then He has everything predetermined based on our free choices ahead of time. He didn't determine our choices for us. He predetermined "His" choices on the chess board based on the moves He knew we would make and haven't even made yet. That's what I believe the Bible teaches explaining the incomprehensible sovereignty of God to the best of my very limited ability.

[@truthseeker5698]

Dynamic omniscience and how is a loving God sovereign . Jesus said only the Father knows the day /hour of return . The sovereign attribute of reformed calvinism deity is no different than Gnostics , many atheists compatibilism, and Islam’s Allah. God is a living and active powerful presence and personhood of Father, Son, and Spirit. God grieves, displays emotion , has messengers, a divine council which demonstrates He is relational , and most of all , He is love . Gods compelling relational attributes are the wellspring of life appeal/argument that makes The Most High relatable and invaluably worthwhile to know.

[@joelauretta4067]

Question ?? Why do people assume calvinist, which I'm not. Are not saved when the opposing views though it refers to salvation are not salvific ?

[@ferdinandmaniwag4856]

wow, it is like ravi zakarias is alive again through you. thanks

[@williamroberts8174]

God is so sovereign that He can choose not to use his sovereignty in allowing free will, while still being able to work out His will in the end. Otherwise, if He cannot choose not to exercise His sovereignty, God is not omnipotent.

[@davidleonhardt5907]

I always feel that when we get behind a man’s doctrine, like calvinism, we are not following God’s word, but that man’s teachings. I’ve always been told to test doctrine or teachings against the Word of God, and I don’t see calvinism as standing when tested. And Paul warns us about philosophies and traditions of humans. And if you’re one of the “elect”, wouldn’t that make you proud because you were chosen?

[@laurakosch]

So does eternal conscious torment - apologists are hard core on this subject. To the point of making conditional immortality a sort of Shobboleth, preventing discussion and study of this doctrine. It’s a discussion that needs to happen.

[@rickward2977]

How do I know I’m “selected?” (NOT a Calvinist) I’ve studied Calvinism more over the past year, or so, and the more I learn the more convinced that it’s a misguided system.

[@criticalthinkingwjake]

Dr. Flowers, I am a pastor and understand this question Im going to ask, but its in regard to another argument made in a long past video and thought i’d ask here for the help of others. Maybe you could address this point in a video. Do you need grace so you can approach the throne of God, or are you given grace once you approach the throne? This addresses the U. Thanks!

[@dman7668]

You can call me your pastor, I will answer this question as a pastor to pastors. You need grace to approach the throne of God. There. You are welcome.

[@Hendrix312002]

What are your thoughts on Cornelius Van Til?

[@DunbarIII]

I know They reject his method of apologetics

[@rolandovelasquez135]

Is it true that for followers of John Calvin, God sends people to eternal damnation for doing exactly what he determines that they do? In other words, the Lord God Almighty makes it absolutely impossible for these billions of persons to spend eternity with him in paradise. Or am I missing something? How can I possibly share that with an unbeliever?

[@littlefishbigmountain]

According to my understanding, you are exactly correct. However, at that point they tend to reframe the conversation like this, “Does anybody _deserve_ to be saved? No. Since everybody deserves hell anyways, God would be perfectly just if He sent every last one of us to hell, so God shows extreme mercy to every single individual He chooses to save.”

[@rolandovelasquez135]

​@@littlefishbigmountain Yup, but God is the author of this situation. He creates us "deserving" of hell and then he sends us to hell because we deserve to go there. Even a five year old could see through this insane logic. How can intelligent human beings believe this. I will never understand why anyone would be a follower of John Calvin.

[@littlefishbigmountain]

@@rolandovelasquez135 I think whenever you use the “but God could’ve made it more like this” argument against Calvinist predestination because it seems unfair to you, odds are good that you’re gonna get hit with “You will say to me then, ‘Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?’ But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, ‘Why have you made me like this?’ Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump done vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory-“ ~Romans 9:19-23 ESV Nevermind Jeremiah 18:1-10 btw

[@joschmo1007]

So far ad the question of God's Sovereignty and man's free will, and how they go together (I would be considered a Calvinist more than an Arminian), I would say the question is not "well, does man have free will, or is God Sovereign," but rather "how could these two go together, Biblically and logically." I think the answer is that God is absolutely sovereign, and His free will is infinite and absolute (because what He says will happen will happen), but He chooses to give us a measure of sovereignty and free will, where neither our sovereignty nor our ability to express our free will are infinite nor absolute. His rule in all things supercedes anyone or anything else's, He can still call those whom He wants (and He doesn't even have to explain why or how!), they can respond the way they want as He gives them the opportunity (and He does), and we are judged for our decisions.

[@watchman4todayreloaded192]

What a great discussion. I too often think that the god of Calvinism is very much like Allah "it is written"

[@thrilledinthird7415]

It seems to me here lately that there are so many that align with Calvinism. When i was growing up, there was only one denomination that I knew of that really held fast to predestination. Now, it seems like it's almost everywhere. Has it become more prevalent lately, or am i just now noticing it more?

[@dman7668]

I agree with you, the error of Calvinism is spreading.

[@josieb1991]

I kept wondering why they don't have their own churches like the mormons or JW, instead they go into Baptist churches and slowly but surely take them over and they do so while being dishonest about what they are doing, someone mentioned when they do that they already have the building and the followers and they don't have to start from scratch so I guess that makes sense,.

[@RR-ue4im]

Great points fellas

[@robertleo7486]

What would you even tell an unbeliever in your witness to them as a Calvinist, and what makes the Calvinist be confident of their own salvation ?

[@seanelgin]

The same thing, I would think, as a non-Calvinist - because that's what the Bible says to do. The Bible says "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved - you and your household" (Acts 16:31). Roman road. Calvinism is not worship of Calvin, but simply a sincere and what many believe to be correct interpretation of the Bible and worship of Christ. The Calvinist is bound by what the Bible commands just as much as any other Christian that believes in a different doctrine.

[@robertleo7486]

@@seanelgin All good, except if you were deterministically born for Hell by God's predetermined decree then your message "Gospel" must include that...and that's not good news my friend. So one is always left with uncertainty, including the person preaching for he can't be sure either. This does not seem to jive with God's character that we read in His Word.

[@jaysanders1794]

Concerning libertarian freewill. The only true honest answer has to be: I chose Christ because I understood the message clearly. I was smart enough to "get it." It was my decision, I had the ability to understand and respond. If any outside force or supernatural power was at work that would be coercion, which would be morally evil.

[@myinternetname5911]

I’m not a Calvinist - far from it. I despise their teachings. However, I don’t think we choose to believe the gospel because we’re smart. We do so because the Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin and of our need for Jesus Christ as our savior. Those who accept Christ do so because they realize they’re lost without him.

[@jaysanders1794]

@@myinternetname5911 The Calvinist believes that the Holy Spirit works in the heart of the unbeliever causing them to be born again (given spiritual life) and are now able to understand the gospel, convicted of sin, see our need for Christ as our Savior and now able to believe and RECIEVE Him. (no where in the Bible the word "accept" is used, that is an Arminian traditional term) The non-Calvinist believes that ultimately you are involved in the salvation process (synergism) you participate by using your freewill to believe. So my conclusion of being smart enough to "get it" makes it based on my ability to understand when I believed.

[@davidjoly9816]

God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble (1 Peter 5:5). Allow me to explain by way of a medical example. Imagine you are diagnosed with terminal heart disease and need a heart transplant. To be saved you must humbly admit that 1) you have a terminal problem, 2) you cannot fix the problem, 3) you must put your full faith and trust in the heart surgeon to save you. Can you really say that you saved yourself? Of course not. And neither can a Christian claim they "saved themselves". I should also point out, that understanding the gospel message is a pretty important part of being saved: Matthew 13:19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path. If you don't understand your sin problem, and don't understand the cure, you won't be saved. Why do you think the gospel is preached at all? It's to expose the sin problem and the only way of salvation. In Calvinism, God gives saving grace to the proud who either think they don't have a sin problem or that they can save themselves, in contradiction to the plain teaching of Scripture that says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.

[@jaysanders1794]

@@davidjoly9816 When you quote Scripture of course I agree with Scripture, it is God's Word, infallible, inerrant. When you apply Scripture improperly you come to a very wrong conclusion. Let me use your illustration how one is saved by putting the horse in front of the cart. Imagine you are dead by a terminal heart disease and you have no understanding that you need to be resurrected, the great physician comes into your room and takes out your dead heart of stone and transplants a new heart of flesh that not only gives you new life but GREAT understanding that it was only by His goodness that you get a new heart, you don't deserve the new heart, because your sin killed your old heart. Now because of this new understanding you love the great physician and you want to do His will. You humble yourself because you know your a sinner, you repent from your sin, you have faith to believe whatever the great physician says. Sir, you don't understand Calvinism. Calvinist know they are great sinners, Calvinist know that the only remedy for sin is a great Savior, At the moment of salvation no Calvinist knows the process of Salvation nor does anyone else, like a new born baby all they know is that they have life and want mama, same with anyone who gets saved. As we grow spiritually we begin to know God, that He is creator, that He is all knowing, that He is powerful, that He is love, that He gave His Son for sinners Etc. As we go deeper in our understanding of the Word of God, we see that He planned everything, it wasn't by chance. We see He chose a people (Jews), we see He revealed His will using Prophets, Apostles, His Word. Then we see man how sinful he is, how he loves sin, how he hates what God loves, how is heart is a stone toward God and His will, the we hear a gospel message, or someone talks to us about God, then the Holy Spirit begins to work, He causes us to understand spiritual things we are born again spiritually, whereas before we had no interest in God or His message, because of the Spirit's work we now understand that we a sinful, we are humbled by our sin and see that we need a Savior, we repent and believe now we are saved. Sir this is how it works. This is how we see from Scripture how God saves people. You said "In Calvinism, God gives saving grace to the proud who either think they don't have a sin problem or that they can save themselves" Before new birth everyone is proud and think they don't have a sin problem, after the new birth they can now see and understand the pride and sin problem humble themselves repent from it and trust Christ for salvation.

[@davidjoly9816]

@@jaysanders1794 having read most of Calvin's institutes, Luther's bondage of the will, among other reformed literature and sat under Calvinist teaching for years, I think I understand Calvinism very well. Your comment to which I was replying overtly accuses non-calvinists of being proud of their ability to understand the gospel, as if they think they save themselves. The whole "synergism" accusation that is thrown around by Calvinists is completely unnecessary. No true Christian believes they can save themselves, nor do they think they can earn their salvation. I don't agree with your interpretation of the deadness of the unbeliever. Being separated from God by your sin, and facing judgement is not the same as being dead to the point you cannot hear the gospel. Moreover, underlying the lay-man's Calvinism that is commonly served up on Sundays that is presented as a humble theology, is the terrible decree that God has predestined all things before time began, including every thought, word, and deed of man. Every word of this conversation, every abortion, child sacrifice, murder, etc. Calvinism ultimately turns God into the author of sin and takes away from the very real responsibility that God gives everyone to humble themselves, repent, and turn to God of their free will. Moreover, it is the choice of every Christian to sin or to obey God. We have a real choice, God does not force us. When you sin, when I sin, it's because we freely choose to.

[@darrennelson5855]

To respond to the question as to why would a person choose one viable option over another... I think it's simply because they think a particular option is true. We shouldn't think of all viable biblical interpretations as food on a smorgasbord where we just get to choose the one we prefer. We should not be looking for interpretations that are possibly correct, but for the ones that are most probably correct. People trained to look at Scripture through a Calvinistic lens will naturally be convinced that Calvinism is the most probably correct despite how appalling anyone else finds it.

[@miken8143]

I am constantly surprised how they say Sproul or others are wrong on this but they have said other good things. I see Calvinism as something foundational to your view on the gospel. If they are that wrong on such a foundation principle why would you listen to anything else they say, it is all built on a faulty premise.

[@clintbeacock7663]

I think it’s because most Calvinists still faithfully relay biblical exhortations that comport with free will, and appeal to mystery when it seems to contradict their soteriology. My church is Calvinist in doctrine, but filled with sound teaching from the pulpit and from its members most of the time. So, I suppose most calvinists, IMO, contradict their theology to an extent, rather than destroy other foundational principles, if that makes sense.

[@jimhughes1070]

Also, let me apologize upfront for lacking in winsomeness! 🤣... Why am I compelled to need a glossary of seminary lingo, everytime I watch a video? 😭🤣😭😭😢

[@josieb1991]

I can relate to you there, all these terms and stuff is a little hard to swallow sometimes

[@jimhughes1070]

@@josieb1991 they were created to describe the "religious systems" contrived by so-called reformers of the Catholic Church... They have nothing to do with biblical Christianity.... There you go I bumped up the challenge a bit 🙏😍

[@josieb1991]

@@jimhughes1070 Well thank you

[@sheilasmith7779]

God gave the angels AND humans desire, BUT He did not limit or control desire or free will. Evidence? The choice of Cain versus Abel. Both chose to do what they desired. A sovereign God can create or design what He wants. Apparently, He wanted humans with unlimited desire and the freedom to choose what desires they pursue.

[@mynameis......23]

1:41

[@immanuelcan3310]

Why would a person choose Calvinism? I can answer with reference to cases I know. You would choose the Calvinist interpretation, even if both are available, because you're insecure, and having a simple, strict, deterministic God would mean you no longer have to have anxiety about the future, or that you have a stable and reliable "father" that you lacked in your growing up years. Or you would choose the Calvinist interpretation because you are tired of moral responsibility, and find it restful to think you don't have to bear it. Or you would choose it because somebody you admire taught it to you, and you don't want to think he was wrong. But you could find many reasons to refuse the free will view, even though it fits the context of Scripture much, much better than the alternative. And your whole hermeneutic, including your view of salvation, morality, eschatology and interpretation will suffer because of it.

[@joelauretta4067]

Frank Tureks question was self refuting because ( God is sovereign enough to get His will done through our free will) 1 Corinthians 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. So how can God's will be accomplished through a mans unwillingness. It's hard to believe that people actually think Franks comment made any sense ??

[@matt8637]

In a nutshell, how is Provisionism different from Arminianism?

[@jerem18h]

Dr. Flowers, are demons spiritually dead? because like James said even the demons believe there is one God and they tremble, so does that sort of prove that the spiritually dead can believe? basically trying to prove the point that the spiritually dead aren't unable to choose to believe etc.