John Piper Said WHAT at John MacArthur's Conference?

John Mcarthur's annual conference for pastors, Shepherd's Conference, happened this past week and a lot happened. Including a very odd moment from John Piper and worship that is being criticized by conservatives as being "effeminate." Let's get into it.
#johnmacarthur #shepherdsconference #Johnpiper
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[@davidroeder6592]

There's no need to fear, Underdog is here. (Old cartoon, gotta be old to know it)

[@unapologeticbeliever]

I refuse to accept that label. Because I know it. And yes, I'm old.

[@charleshays5407]

I remember that show. Disney made a crappy movie based on it.

[@mattwilly7959]

I am tired of hearing about how Songs about the kindness of Christ is effeminate.

[@nursemarie4819]

I wonder if they think the fruits of the spirit are effeminate as well

[@longllamas]

And even if they where, so what!? Is the church not allowed to cater for women at all?

[@unapologeticbeliever]

"Fundie Mecca" LOL LOL!

[@erinvandermaten6567]

I appreciate what you mention about the legalism of emotion. It makes me think about how the way so many aspects of Christian living are taught are taught with legalism rather than freedom, even with freeing concepts of the Gospel. The concept of being emotionally satisfied in God should be a freeing thing and should point to the fact that God is enjoyable, but instead of seeing that, it now becomes "how can I make sure I'm emotionally enjoying God enough?" There is a huge trend of preaching from a legalistic perspective rather than a freeing perspective. Thanks for sharing that!

[@Kendojin]

"Legalism of emotions" what a good thing we should watch out for... I was a part of a charismatic church for a few years, and I love many of my dear brothers and sisters there, but there seemed to be a legalism not only what you do but also in how you feel... While they also simultaneously said that emotions can't be trusted, because the heart of man is fickle So if anyone runs into legalism of emotions, I bet you you'll also find "your emotions can't be trusted" teaching alongside it

[@dnettewakefield8686]

40 mins in... I'm done. Wish that was 40 mins I could get back.

[@reformedpilgrim]

The "erotic" thing was a big swing & a miss. The "effeminate" music critique came from WAY further out in left field than Piper's comments. (I'm a musician who likes The Who, Mozart, The Carpenters, Johnny Cash, Led Zeppelin, and many others.)

[@Kendojin]

I'm glad Piper caught himself and explained. And I'm glad you included the whole clip, and your explaining it One of the things I learned early on is that I can learn a lot from preachers and teachers that God gave to the church... but that doesn't mean they can't be weirdos I feel like John Piper is a good teacher, and a Christian, but he's ALSO a weirdo. Just like I'm a weirdo in my own way haha

[@anna-marialopez940]

I'm glad that you finally saw the truth about Lawson. I knew that you would see it eventually 😊

[@SpiritualDiscernment91]

I got saved from all sins. I was a homosexual and an Occultist. I have been saved about 1yr and half. I have no issue with different genres of Christian music. However, I do understand if the context is not of God but becoming sensual and carefree into trance. Music has that kind of power, but I think music should point our attention to Christ not to ourselves and gratify our flesh and be in a outer body experience and then indoctrinated when the music playing. It does happen a lot in contemporary music. I was in the occult and music helped me to get into a trance to out of the body to do magick and allow spirits into me by clearing my mind. Occultism is about sexuality and sensuality . What these people you talk about forget is some old hymns are not godly. I think John Piper doesnt preach a true gospel but a works based gospel.

[@rejoicingbones]

Interesting take on Piper and emotions. Part of the reason being a fundy (IFB) ruined me was because I didn’t get what it meant to enjoy God, or delight in him. (Psalm 37:4). Figuring out the truth about Piper’s message helped me a lot. It’s not emotional legalism. He’s passionate about people understanding that loving God is essential. I used to say “love is not an emotion” as a cop out. Now I see it as the best way to be faithful, not out of duty, but out of satisfaction in Christ.

[@DavidTheZealot]

If you want to get to "enjoy God" re read John 6 and consider the real presence of the Eucharist. We eat it, we adore it, it's heavenly, quite literally

[@jonahdav9589]

How much hedonism do you need to have to be saved under Piper's precept of man? Gal 1:6-9 Piper gets his doctrine from Pascal a catholic and CS Lewis a catholic affirmer. Might want to test the spirits again. Piper also has two same sex attracted elders, one of them is Nick Roen. Piper affirms false teachers from Rick Warren, Beth Moore, Christine Caine, Sam Allberry, Lecre, Jackie Hill Perry, and a slew of others. Eros is not above Agape. But Piper skillfully mixes error with true to use sensuality to deceive people. God's love is not erotic. And How much hedonism do you need to go to heaven? Piper says, "there is a condition you have to meet in order to be saved. And I want to try to show as my last point that becoming a Christian Hedonist is an essential part of that condition." John Piper desiringgod messages conversion-to-christ grace for you to believe in Jesus Christ through grace alone by grace alone in Christ alone. No hedonism added.

[@guycooke6306]

Emotions are not always reliable indicators of love. One can love truly and deeply and yet feel and express little emotion. Personality types as well as personal experiences greatly influence the level and even ability to exhibit inward or outward emotions.

[@lindacowles756]

51:09 But what definition or concept of "satisfied" is used here? Satisfaction can mean different things to different people in different settings. To be satisfied, as in having had enough to eat, as in accepting the quality of someone's work, or as in enjoying a certain pleasure, are various uses of the word "satisfied." We even sing a song in some churches with the line, "the wrath of God was satisfied." In many videos I have watched, someone has just finished cleaning an extremely dirty and neglected house and often says, "That is so satisfying." The apostle Paul says that he learnt the secret of being content with little or much. That's satisfaction with what God provides. Simeon, when he held the infant Jesus in his arms, expressed satisfaction at having seen the Lord's Christ before he died. He was satisfied with his life. When we say that we have satisfaction in Christ, it means (or should mean) that we have all we need fulfilled in Him.

[@CarolannBrendel]

I know you were trying to be charitable to that Piper guy, but we have eyes and ears, and what he said was just warped. I fear we've become so wrapped up in the chain of authority, whether it's Pastors or church fathers, that we have lost the ability to think. When you read the words of Jesus in the New Testament, the loud subtext, in my opinion, is " I gave you a brain. Please use it". Instead, we seem to be overly dependent on experts, both past and present. Ultimately, we will all stand before Jesus alone, and when he looks us in the eye, whether it's the unredeemed for condemnation or the redeemed for reward, we won't be able to blame our decisions on anybody else.

[@lindacowles756]

25:46 "He's saving right now." True, but I doubt that Dr. Lawson was referring to "right now".

[@Detritus0311]

I think the other implication is that Pastors need to wake up, realize the people that walk through their doors are going to face the wrath of God and do whatever they can (understanding God is soverign) to do something about it. I think this statement was meant to be jarring, it was meant to shake awake the pastors that have been lulled to sleep by our comfortable culture... At least that's the generous take, no?

[@unapologeticbeliever]

WHOA! Yes. Legalism on emotion. "love Jesus more, and FEEL THIS WAY...." I have never thought of it this way - but as soon as you said that, it made sense why I can't stand these guys. (One of many reasons. The primary is that they're creepy.) PLUS - Satisfaction/contentment can be VERY FAR REMOVED from "pleasure". If you are SUFFERING (ie think a painful physical condition) you are not feeling a lot of pleasure. But you may likely still be feeling a deep satisfaction and contentment in Christ! So the fact that Piper is conflating these terms - and now with eros - is bizarre to say the least. They are NOT the same!

[@gogos869]

The so called “effeminate” song sounds like something a child would sing. It’s just a poor quality song. I had to stop listening! As Christians, we can do better

[@tonilynn3179]

They just sound terrible singing it. I used to have a cd with this song on it years ago. On the cd recording, it's a beautiful song.

[@johnnydev9318]

Around 34:00 Comments about marches I agree - in fact that very song they were singing could BE a march - it would just have to be sped up somewhat

[@johnnydev9318]

"Cruise ship for pastors" 😅😅😅 That's clever, bro'

[@KevinHale-vq2xr]

Contemporary sounds the same too

[@andrewmattiewalter]

Dean you need to put the Todd White clip next to Piper THEY SAID THE SAME THING! LOL

[@trfatman]

New sub here. I grew up in the fundie movement and heard all the pastors and evangelists preaching on the horrors of rock music with its "strong backbeat" and backwards masked lyrics. It caused me to do some real study and research on music theory and the history of music. My problem with most worship music today has more to do with purpose rather than style. If we take the prayer literally, "Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven", then our goal with worship music should be to use what would be appropriate to sing before the Throne of Almighty God. So, imagine transporting this ShepCon service into John's vision of the Throne in Revelation, with the Four Beasts, the 24 Elders, and all the angels and saints in Heaven bowing and worshipping the Lamb. Does the song fit the purpose? A separate example might be a mother singing a lullabye to her infant. She may be singing a beautiful song about how God loves her (covenant) child, but I would not find that lullabye appropriate for corporate (liturgical) worship on Sunday morning. The song must fit the purpose. And now I will take the relatavist cop out and leave it up to the viewer to decide if they think the ShepCon song fits or not.

[@theslimtoa4195]

Asking why Lawson needs to say anything like that at a pastors conference is like asking why a pastor needs to preach the gospel in general at a pastors conference. That logic doesnt add up. We all need reminders of the truth. Im not saying that i defend everything that comes out of their mouths, but that criticism did not make any sense.

[@davmatheophilus159]

Funny, my pastor really appreciates Washer and Piper…they both rub me the wrong way, for some reason.

[@michelleheltz6116]

The effeminate song is not effeminate. The meloxy is very depressing. Not positive.

[@jakevoos5906]

Underdog Theology, how can I get in touch with you? I may have a story you'd be interested in.

[@davidroeder6592]

Ferns?! We need TULIPS

[@carinacoetsee2334]

There was nothing wrong with that song. The men's voices sounded so good!

[@lindacowles756]

57:53 What is the Greek word for "pleased" used in "in Him I am well pleased"? I highly doubt that "pleased" has an erotic connotation.

[@sarademoret425]

David lamented! How effeminate!

[@wonderlife62]

Ferns in their pretend garden of Eden

[@SimonJification]

I dig your soundtrack. And Lawson's wrong. :)

[@BlakeRatliff-h8b]

>-Samuel Sey looks like he might have took this picture at the conference Two breaths later... >HoW cOuLd hE sAy ThIs To A gRoUp oF pAsToRs

[@WingfeatherE12]

Good thoughts, I cringed too

[@BibleStudywithVernon]

Not another Christian Wendy Williams

[@hezekiahthomas837]

Literally like 500 men over the age of 30 singing about christ and his kindness. And somehow this mad effeminate because of the piano. Like sorry god created beautiful music 😂😂😂😂

[@carinacoetsee2334]

I don't like that John Piper said it's erotic! Our love for Jesus is not erotic!!!

[@davidclark5618]

I hope you have truly moved on from Grace Community Church/Masters. They seem to be living rent free in your head. Fundamentalists/personality cults can have this negative impact. Their cognitive dissonance leads to conclusions that unless you’re them you’re not conservative. Conservative, biblically faithful Christianity is actually quite diverse/

[@thisguy2985]

I think I can speak a bit of fundie, specifically the patriarchy dialect, so let me take a guess. Maybe the effeminate is the fluttering of the piano notes instead of straight chords. Possibly the higher octave of the music. It's stupid, but that's just my guess 😂

[@danielbeardsley7846]

The opening line from Lawson does not speak of the Christ of holy Scripture. Revelation is a tough book to understand but that is just appalling.

[@ameliacoburn4787]

ummmm what Bible are you reading???? LOL

[@danielbeardsley7846]

@ameliacoburn4787 the same one you read most likely. But I'm Orthodox, so I've received the interpretation of the Bible as well as the books themselves. The Christ we know does not delight in the death of the wicked.

[@lindacowles756]

1:22:29 "and John Adams was the only guy there." Wow, you look young for being that old.

[@ericfisher1360]

What is a "Patriarchy Boy"?

[@Underdogtheology]

Backyard patriarchy boys are what I call this new wave of Christian nationalists who promote patriarchy because it’s more fun than saying “patriarchalists.”

[@gogos869]

I stopped listening to all of the pastors at this conference years ago, including Alistair Begg. Something is just off about them. The Holy Spirit redirects me for some reason.😢

[@mcocknoxy]

Steve Lawson is an extremely bland preacher. (And always has been) I often agree with him, but almost never enjoy listening to him.

[@sarademoret425]

Love your shirt. Did your wife pick your clothes today?

[@Underdogtheology]

🤣

[@dogmatika7]

What a misleading presentation....

[@oksills]

46 minutes of sophomoric nonsense to get to the advertised Piper comment. What pastor would take their family to D L?? You have missed sooo much about Biblical instruction regarding music, worship, about masculinity. Very worldly channel..

[@samdg1234]

I'm glad of your timestamp. I couldn't stand listening to the tripe. Even going directly to the Piper part, I couldn't take this guy. I'll look for content else where of Piper at the shepherd's conference.

[@JoshuaSchow]

γε "φιλω" εστιν

[@louisduplessis2075]

After listening to Johnny P...my naughtiness seem more superfluous

[@dnettewakefield8686]

seriously, 20 minutes of goofing off to get to the subject of your vid. 🙄