John & Revelation Project - Part 1 - The Literary Center

[@JCCIDC3]

Good gravy.. I feel like a derp.. Glad you're doing this. You two are incredibly intelligent..

[@Corinna_Schuett_GER]

Hallelujah, FINALLY someone who realizes the "Woman" and the "Serpent" equaling the original enmity from Genesis 3:15!!! So sick of hearing the flawed comparison to "Israel" by traditional Zionist understanding and teachings! I cannot even tell others because they won't hear me out. THANK YOU 🙏💖🙏 MARANATHA!

[@Corinna_Schuett_GER]

Edit: After proceeding to min34:20 I have yet to disagree about the "male child" because of the 'harpazo' (snatching up = rapture!). This "child" here can ONLY be the CHURCH which is the BODY of Christ, also given power over the nations and a rod of iron in Rev2:26-27. When proceeding further into the chapter we see the parallel to Isaiah 66:7-8 and the "TWO births" of her SEED, one the church of Christ BEFORE birth pain and then during the pangs (Jacobs Trouble) the remnant of Israel.

[@strangetheology]

18:48 Brevard Childs “canonical approach” lends to this idea. Not only were the words of each book inspired but the collecting and ordering of this library of books was done under Gods direction. I’m no expert on Childs but it came to mind as you were talking about this.

[@robdez999]

My Brothers in Christ... To truly understand these spiritual messages we have to be aligned with our Lord. Reading , prayer , meditation. 1000%

[@Bee-uy2cn]

Naw bro

[@robdez999]

@@Bee-uy2cn why naw Mrs bee

[@pastorjonathansoto]

Dr. Chip, I’ve watched this teaching several times… thank you so much

[@Awako06]

God bless you guys! Dr Chip is the new David Pawson in our generation

[@phillipdye5717]

Thank you, a lot to study, think, and pray about

[@susanvanwyk1806]

I love these genius discussions!!!

[@colleenlewis790]

Thank you. This was such good teaching. Hungry for The Word.

[@Wealth_Wise736]

Is there more material/books I can read to help expand on some of the things you guys are talking about…specifically Dr. Gage’s understanding and approach to the biblical books and their literary structure?

[@josephfarabee8786]

Woohoo! Stoked for some mind blowing stuff.

[@jamessierra5214]

If you like this, go check out Dr. Taylor Marshall’s series on the Book of Revelation. Its one of the best.

[@achristian11]

Pretrib all the way! Come Lord Jesus Christ

[@bryanbouzigard7019]

No pretrib sorry

[@cristianfernandez1874]

I came to this conclusion sometime ago by myself, it's cool to see more people, and trained people specially talking about the interrelation of John and Revelation from a conceptual/literary/symbolical way; but I'm a bit bummed in how the discussion seemed to be limiting too much of the symbols. It's scary for evangelicals/protestants (it's my camp for now too) to go into ideas about Mary, but it's obvious chapter 12 is a symbol for Mary and a new Eve in the same way you were going fleshing the Jesus and new Adam symbols; it seemed a bit inorganic to ignore those references. John use of symbology (and symbolical thinking in general) is more a net of associations bundled together that resists delineating or outlining just one route of interpretation, the fullness of the message is in the expansive matrix of ideas unfolding, clearly this does not mean allowing for wacky things or heresy, but to let the frame be the limit of possible and reasonable associations/allusions present to us in the images of the text.

[@Corinna_Schuett_GER]

At first I congratulated the idea of Eve in Genesis 3:15 (which is indeed correct) but Dr Gage would then hit with an overdose of symbolism which is also wrong. "Eve" is the mother of MANKIND and the number of living humans. Out of her comes Jesus, Israel AND the church saints (naive set theory). Revelation 12 depicts the whole story of the endtimes before and AFTER the rapture (harpazo) in verse 5. Besides, the "signs" are being depicted in HEAVEN so this means there are starry constellations showing the actions (Genesis 1:14 the purpose of stars). Many Christians have already watched the heavenly signs in 2017 perhaps you have heard about it (Virgo constellation , very unique). When Jesus Christ came to earth for the first time, the "Star of Bethlehem" would indicate the event to humans that watched it. Same with the second coming. The church also gets to see the "Morning Star" (Venus conjunction) in Rev2:29.

[@johnojosipe5364]

Dr Chip, thank you very very much for this breakdown, but I don’t exactly understand how Sarah gets to be in the three women represented by the pregnant women, I can understand Mary and the Earth, but not Sarah

[@Corinna_Schuett_GER]

Jesus never came to "deceive Satan". He always talked and walked in plain TRUTH. He was truth in person a 100%. John 8:25: "Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, *Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning."* The demons also knew who He was. Mat 8:29: "And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, *Jesus, thou Son of God?* art thou come hither to torment us before the time?" NEVER ever would have Jesus used "tricks" to defeat the enemy. He was GOD in the flesh and Satan wasn't even able to take His (human) life as He gave it on His own. (John 10:17-18)

[@inchristalone25]

That deception story seems to be from scholars, notably Michael Heiser who believed Jesus had to trick Satan to circumvent his plans. Very troubling how many Christians follow Heiser only because he's a "scholar".

[@johnchola1643]

Wow 😲😳 Do you offer scholarship for people from Africa who wants to study theology... Please Dr Chip

[@toddott633]

Actually, the place that Jesus goes to prepare a place for us is not heaven. The Father's House is not heaven. It is the Temple, which Jesus equates with His Body. "Destroy this Temple and in three days I will raise it up." Jesus was going to the cross the prepare a Body for us to become dwelling places, Living Stones in that Body. HE is the way to the Father. By HIS indwelling within us, we become God's House. WE are God's House, not heaven. Jesus and the Father live in us, and we live in them. He said, In a little while you will not see, Me, and then again in a little while you will see Me. THEN (in a little while) you will know that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me, and I in you. Jesus is speaking of the new birth, of the sending of the Spirit to dwell in us, NOT about the Second Coming. He sent the Comforter, His Spirit. "I will not leave you comfortless. I will come to you." Jesus has come again through His Spirit, and has made us dwelling places in the Father's House. And while our bodies live on this earth, our spirits are raised up and we are seated with Him in heavenly places.

[@GoldenCup888]

So is there a resurrection from the literal grave followed by a white throne judgment or not?

[@archadeinteriors]

9:00 Don't you think it's kind of self defeating to try to point out the ' mathematical geography ' of scripture, as if it is any way lacking something in the merit of it's own truth and content! Scripture, unlike, secular literature for example, does not need reference to symbolism . . like, i mean, those may be interesting analytical perspectives, but if they detract form the significance of plain, straightforward content to be found in the scriptures then in this context, that is : understanding of the scriptures, then they are actually self defeating!

[@archadeinteriors]

i don't know i'm getting a few minutes in and i am seeing Dr. Warren Gage totally dominating the conversation; with each pondering suggested he immediately takes a que to lecture away endlessly, is this a dialogue, intended to develop these thoughts and ideas or a Dr.Warren Gage forum? and 2) Dr. Warren Gage seems to over analyze and symbolize the scripture as stated above, he takes it too far and this diminishes it's power and it just means a lot more Dr. Warren Gage dominating the discussion and cross referencing & talking endlessly

[@Corinna_Schuett_GER]

​@@archadeinteriorsI stumbled on this series by researching "Chiasm" in Revelation and listened to Pt8 first which was really good. I love digging deeper into structures and language details which I deem important to identify real DIVINE inspiration. BUT I do agree with you, I mixed up the guest with the host and then in this part I realize there's much of over-symbolizing where there's not necessary for understanding. I have left some comments. Greetings from Germany, MARANATHA! 🙏👰💖

[@justmaitake5910]

Hello. I must respectfully disagree regarding your suggestion on the above video @ # 35:28 . Jesus did not say, "I go to prepare a place for you... and don't worry, I will hang there out till you get there." No, Jesus said, "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am..." (John 14:3) And where is Jesus at that point? He has returned. He is on Earth. With that in mind, He finishes with, "that where I am, there you may be also." That is right here on terra firma, not in Heaven, because He first spoke of His return before He added that we would then join Him WHERE HE IS. You know that Peter mentioned, as if it was common knowledge to his immediate audience, that David never ascended into the heavens, and that his grave serves as a reminder of that fact. (Acts 2:29, 34 -35 ) But to force the scriptures to say that the saved go immediately to heaven upon their death, preachers start, not in the middle of a book, but in the middle of a *sentence* to create a false doctrine from what Paul wrote as a matter of mere wishful thinking, about his desire, not as a fact, his desire to be away from his body and with The Lord. (2 Corinthians 5:8) Paul never said, "Ladies and gentlemen may I have your attention, please? Ok ready? (Ahem) 'TO BE away from the body is to be..........." as everyone misquotes the apostle in their own wishful thinking. Paul said, "In fact, we are confident, and WE WOULD PREFER to be away from the body and at home with the Lord." Big difference. The contradiction that exists if saints have to crawl back into their graves so they can be resurrected upon Christ's return, but who are said to be still in their graves waiting for that call, should be enough to settle the matter of soul sleep being the correct teaching. But I guess it's not. Yes, the Bible teaches that "the spirit returns to God who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:7 ) You and I know this is a reference to a person's breath, not his consciousness, yet preachers take advantage of the scripturally ignorant to use that verse as a proof-text for going consciously to heaven after we die, as many also use the transfiguration VISION (Matthew 17:9 ) of Elijah and Moses "appearing" to Jesus to also teach that lie. The Bible says, "The dead know nothing." (Ecclesiastes 9:5) and that's simply what I am going to continue to rest my hat on, and to wait for "the last day" (John 6:40 // 11:24) with Lazarus and with David for the ressurection.

[@bwsandy]

very good analysis on 2 Cor 5:8. I am guilty myself of misquoting this a few times. thankyou!

[@bwsandy]

also, for the John 14:3 topic, are you referring to one of the resurrections (depending on whether u are a pre-trib/post-trib etx) that we all be with the Lord on this earth during the millennial reign?

[@Corinna_Schuett_GER]

​@@bwsandyIn the Millennium Reign, of course we will all be on earth with Jesus, each having their "cities" to rule (talents parable) in a completely SINLESS government and administration for the people in the flesh to rule over (Rev2:27-28).

[@Dave-kh6tx]

Hmmm. Self proclaimed Bible interpreters. Doesn't know prophecy of Christcs return was fulfilled in the 19th century and left another religion already established in Israel. The 7 angels and 7 churches represent the 7 major religions of God. 😄😄

[@trentbishop6180]

Wrong. try the 1st century

[@Dave-kh6tx]

@@trentbishop6180 try the Baha'i religion. Baha'u'llah fulfilled Christ's return.

[@trentbishop6180]

@@Dave-kh6tx false doctrine

[@Dave-kh6tx]

@@trentbishop6180 ignorant comment and attitude. There was a great expectation mid 19th century for Christ's return. Many were disappointed. But they knew not that it indeed happen and had to transpire at the speed of life itself. You should investigate it before talking down on it. I came across it by accident with not EVER hearing about it before. Baha'u'llah also stated the next manifestation of God like Himself or Christ would not appear for a full 1000 years from when His journey started. All you lazy christians who hold 2 religions in your hand, the Torah and the Gospel, seek to discredit other religion as if yours is the only one, yet you have 2 religions bound together for your Holy Text. I never understood this. In the last 20 years I have studied several other religions enough to know that God reveals a little about Himself and His plan every time a guy like Christ or Buddha show up. Those that shun prophets like Baha'u'llah and Mohmmad are shunning Christ Himself. Antichrist is mentioned in the Gospel 3 times. It's simple definition is those that are against Christ. Tell yourself what you gotta tell yourself, but you speak from an ignorant podium. Baha'u'llah deeply stressed that individuals should investigate the truth on their own. He said when more people did this that dogmas and superstitions would evaporate from this realm. I challenge you to open your eyes. What the heck is the Universal House of Justice doing in Haifa, Israel? How did they form? How did they get there? How many times was the baton of God passed to individuals before it was passed to them? Dig deep enough you will also see that most of the prophecies in Revelation and Isaiah are no longer prophecies but are now proofs, become they have come to pass.