"John's Gospel is Christian Fan Fiction!" DEBUNKED

John often gets the short end of the stick in discussions about the historical Jesus-it's like he's the red-headed stepchild of the bunch. Scholars are constantly questioning his reliability and historical accuracy and claim that he's just proto-orthodox fan fiction. But was John writing theological fiction, or was he giving us a real history of the historical Jesus? There are clues in his gospel that tell us that he was trying to relate to us historical truth about Jesus.
Lydia McGrew, Eye of the Beholder, amzn.to/3Jvw6ja
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[@bearistotle2820]

Idc if you are Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, or whatever, but as a Catholic, I appreciate your style and solid argumentation. Keep it up, my brother in Christ!

[@thephotoshopper5908]

“BuT sPiDeRmAn GeTs StUfF rIgHt AbOuT nEw YoRk!” -Atheists who didn’t watch the video

[@bobjob2514]

As a bit of a comic nerd, thanks for the laugh. It’s reeeally convenient when you can inject a prophecy into the past, huh? They should try doing it from before the foundation of the earth like God did. You can’t simply deny the Messiah - clearly presented from Genesis forward - without serious scales over your eyes.

[@uncle_Samssubjects]

​@@bobjob2514that's how I view the protesters of the Church. If the well is poisonous like they claim, logically that means so is the bucket they pulled from the well. But they love their man made traditions.

[@crso6830]

Why wouldn't an atheist watch this? It's like people arguing over if the Star Wars prequels should be cannon. It's hilarious.

[@matt66716]

@@crso6830 for ignorant people

[@SeanWinters]

@@uncle_Samssubjects the church is not a well that the bucket pulls from, it is the other way around.

[@mgvilaca]

I watched you for the first time on Easter Sunday. Since then your views and subs have skyrocketed. Amazing work bro

[@negativedawahilarious]

I noticed that too ❤ Glory to Jesus

[@lordbebech]

It is due to skill in meme use.

[@axxel9626]

It is due to Jesus ​@@lordbebech

[@TouchedByArod]

That aint how god works bro. The man makes AMAZING and easy to digest content.

[@lordbebech]

@@axxel9626 grace builds on the nature.

[@justinyashan1172]

7:03 Let Jesus cook 🗣️

[@harrygarris6921]

The crazy thing is that it’s the gospel of John which appears to stand as the odd one out to our modernist eyes, but in actual history Marcion viewed the gospel of Luke as having a unique quality and rejected the other three gospels. And this led to a schismatic Marcionite group who only had Luke’s gospel as canon. So in a way the 19th century German theologians were right that one of the gospels was used over and against the others by schismatics. They were just wrong about what gospel it was because they were mistakenly assuming that second century Greco-Roman Christians would operate under the same modernist presuppositions that they operated under… but this is a bad way to understand history.

[@thiagoulart]

People often tryna understand the past with the lens of a present mindset. I wished there was a name for this phenomena. "Epochal appropriation", maybe? 🤔🥴

[@logicianbones]

@@thiagoulart It's anachronism fallacy. Although that isn't specific to which timeframe is used in place of which. Also sort of provincialism.

[@thiagoulart]

@@logicianbones sounds about right, thanks!

[@DanielSilva-gc4xz]

@@thiagoulart not the appropriation again 💀

[@F0r3v3rT0m0rr0w]

This channel is a true diamond in the rough.

[@darkwolf7740]

After using the Roblox oof sound, it is now a moral obligation to use it in every video 🤔

[@skydivingcomrade1648]

John is more accurate than others want to ever admit.

[@PastPresented]

John is accurate about history and geography- but hiding lies among a mass of verifiable truths is deception 101.

[@joe5959]

​@@PastPresentedyou need to take philosophy 101😂

[@PastPresented]

@@joe5959 Nice to know that someone read my comment- it now seems to have been disappeared.

[@bobjob2514]

Likely because they don’t want to recognize who God is. Do me a favor, please. Read the beginning of John chapter 1, and take that understanding of “the Word” into his first epistle 5:7. Then tell a friend!

[@JesusWillRaptureUs]

@@bobjob2514 🪽🪽🪽

[@rivereuphrates8103]

Dude I've been binging the playlist all weekend. I wish these were longer, but the short run time is actually perfect for helping others during discussions. You're doing a really great service.

[@sceptigator1313]

Incredible series so far!

[@justinyashan1172]

3d ago 😮?

[@darkwolf7740]

​@@justinyashan1172Early access or... secret time traveller. I hope it's the 2nd 🤞

[@Mr53gil]

6 AD - In the 43 Year of Augustus Caesar, happened a terrible Famine in Rome, on which Augustus sent away not only Strangers, but most of his Servants out of the City. This would mean he became Caesar in 37 BC

[@darabakare7591]

Was so happy when i saw the notification for the vid pop up lol. Cant wait to watch, and God bless you!

[@user-ns5sw6rc1e]

I am a simple man. I see biblical wojaks, I click.

[@ReneSance]

Cultural references we need to look up to understand. Proceeds to show a gameboy and a cassette... I guess I am old now. 😅

[@dillydanny-o8807]

The burglar example is like the “millions of years” hand-wave to explain macro evolution. “Just add more time, it’ll make it make sense!!”

[@minifox3603]

Happy to see that your channel is growing, love these videos.

[@jeremiahhunt8387]

The historical context you provide is amazing as we gain more depth and perspective throughout the gospel, however I’d love some of the sources your using to read for myself, Blessings thank you

[@dillydanny-o8807]

The book of John was the most widely circulated gospel at the time of church founding and growth if I remember correctly. I believe it has the most remnants of copies found in historical sites since it was used as a “pocket gospel” of sorts.

[@AnHebrewChild]

Matthew was, by far.

[@ChannelStarface]

I'm discussing this video on my next podcast... This is very well done. God bless!!! Christ is King

[@bk2524]

Are you "Christ is King"ing because you are excited or are you "Christ is King"ing because your a groyper? The difference is substantive.

[@homemovelha4173]

@@bk2524 ´´this guy said one of the most common christian phrases ever, he must be part of this niche political movement that uses the phrase frequently´´

[@Cuhpri]

Your content is extremely important, please do not stop!

[@nickstone3195]

And... Saved that video to a playlist! God bless homie

[@BoScotty]

I’m glad I found this channel. Keep up the good work!

[@jdlyonsky]

Is there any way you coukd do a critique on the backyard lproffesors latest vudeos on jesus and josephus?

[@thiagoulart]

"Ad hocness" you've said has also a psychological explanation. It is basically a fearful, anti-alterity defense mechanism that protects the subject's belief foundations, on which is based his very subjectivity. Against anything that threatens the worldview, such is the psyche's "tenacity", whose degree of affection gives a clue about the subject's intelligence and confidence. In other words, people's unreasonableness against a topic is directly proportional to the possibility of their mistake on it, which very much says of a fear-driven, insecure personality.

[@TestifyApologetics]

No lies detected

[@Datroflshopper]

Can you do another video going into more detail about how John, Luke, Seutonius and Josephus fit together?

[@chrisalan11rus]

Bro this series is amazing! 🤩

[@JTFtheTheoPhPoliticalHistorian]

Some historical books that have mythological beings we still call historical books but also say that the mythological beings obviously didn't exist. I think that's the same thing with the Gospel of John for some people if we're strictly talking about facts.

[@darbearbromine9529]

Your videos seem pretty cool, dude, I’ve liked what I’ve watched. God bless you!

[@MatthewChenault]

Speaking of John, my personal favorite chapter from John is John 11; the story of Jesus raising Lazarus from the grave. It is both a story of Jesus’s compassion for fellow man as well as an affirmation of the consistency of the Biblical narrative as Jesus risks his life to aid Mary and Martha.

[@ggpt9641]

I remember when his disciples express concern for it too, knowing the chief priests wanted to kill Jesus, and Lazarus's burial site was around 2 to 3 miles away from Jerusalem. Good reminder.

[@liothemachine]

as an Orthodox Christian, web read that last sunday and it is beautiful

[@psevdhome]

The weirdest thing about John is, it seems to have a chiastic structure. Meaning every passage has a parallel passage at the opposite end of the book. John 1 about the Word of God who made the world parallels the ending where it says that if all the things Jesus did were put in a book, the world could not contain them, because Christ created the world, so the explanation of everything he made could not fit. Sometimes these parallels can be a bit of a stretch, so I am not sure if this is true, however I once read it beginning and end and so forth and there were direct parallels in a lot of places.

[@justsomeguy9192-hx7jv]

@testify I like your case for 27 AD start of ministry. I’ve always been a 30 AD believer. Could you do a comparison of the evidence for 30 vs 33 AD for date of crucifixion?

[@nebricback1430]

Yeeees more knowledge in my brain

[@IslandUsurper]

Does anyone else think that woodcut of the woman at the well looks like it came out of Studio Ghibli? Something about the way her face is rendered… More seriously, what’s the evidence that John wrote in Ephesus? I don’t doubt there is some; it’s just the first I’ve heard of this.

[@timmccreery6597]

IMO- John firmly cements Jesus as God- the Second person of the trinity. I believe that is why it is so attacked-

[@learningtogrowinChrist]

Thanks bro! Good stuff!!

[@dedshi4788]

You deserve a sub.

[@chrisazure1624]

Where does the "boo" sound come from?

[@TestifyApologetics]

Old roblox lol

[@Pyr0Ben]

Uhm ahkshually (projects saliva) it'sh pronounshed "OOF"

[@p.j.obrien7034]

Great vid!!!

[@itsamindgame9198]

The genius burglar theory works a lot like the theory of evolution.

[@TestifyApologetics]

Yes

[@captainblocker4324]

almost all evidence points to evolution by natural selection being the case though? even those who deny natural selection still admit evolution of species is a real, proven and observable phenomena

[@dansmith7009]

Except that the theory of evolution makes testable predictions that are accurate, so…

[@itsamindgame9198]

@@dansmith7009 4 errors in one partial sentence is impressive.

[@dansmith7009]

@@itsamindgame9198 do you claim that no one has accurately predicted features of fossils that should exist if evolution is true, before they are discovered? Or even more commonly, the specific species that will be found in each geologic layer, and which species are never found together? Prediction, tested, shown to be accurate. What are the 4 errors you think exist in my statement?

[@Cornelius135]

I didn’t think the debate was whether or not John made up the details as much as the fact that he is far less concerned with historical precision as theological reflection - so of course he gets general cultural stuff right about Samaritans and circumcision, but the order of events and dialogue have been massaged to serve John’s rhetorical goals in a more obvious way than the Synoptics.

[@ref8632]

So interesting

[@GrahamRannick]

Could I politely ask why the comments or replies I've made on this video don't appear on any account except mine? (this is a different acccount) Is this a weird KZbin thing?

[@PastPresented]

It's likely to mean that Testify has his channel moderation set to the strictest level rather than the basic level. Strict moderation on KZbin generates loads of "false positives".

[@GrahamRannick]

@@PastPresented What is odd is that I've gone back over the last few videos I've commented on, and those comments also do not show under a different account. Nothing I've said I would imagine should be flagged for content, But I don't want to assume anything beyond KZbin being KZbin.

[@TestifyApologetics]

I see you

[@GrahamRannick]

@@TestifyApologetics This account yes, but not my other account?

[@GrahamRannick]

@@TestifyApologetics In any event, I had posted this: Out of interest, how would you account for John being able to relay to the reader the conversation that took place between Jesus and the woman? Would you be inclined more toward Jesus relaying the story to the disciples later, or would this be an example of the Holy Spirit advising John? Genuinely curious, not attempting to be facetious or spring any kind of 'gotcha' nonsense.

[@jabeavers]

Shared!

[@scienquist]

But if John's account of cleansing the temple correlates with Luke's why is John's account at the beginning of Jesus' ministry, rather than after Jesus' final entry into Jerusalem like in Luke?

[@secular13]

Same as,"And you 12 will judge 12 tribes of Israel" but he is talking to Judas too.

[@bk2524]

Can you imagine? "I know the Messiah is coming" "I'm here cuuuuuz"

[@kerwinbrown4180]

So is Philo of Alexandria's writing also fan fiction? John and Philo both write in similar ways.

[@coltclouse7561]

Love the Roblox noises and the great lol placements. Amazing humor

[@bradleymarshall5489]

While I agree with John Behr’s recent scholarship on the theological and apocalyptic views of John, I don’t see why that somehow doesn’t mean John is still historical

[@yourneighbour3309]

like your videos. you should look into Eastern Orthodoxy.

[@TestifyApologetics]

I have. I respect it. I love aspects of it. I believe I'm where I should be but thank you.

[@yourneighbour3309]

@@TestifyApologetics ill respect that, you do good work anyways. No Need to read the rest and thank you for the response! but You cannot Remove The Bible from The Church, History, Acts. All of the OT and NT is about Christ, The Apostles establishing historical actual real churches, and all kings and queens will convert to the Orthodox faith and worship him for 1000 years as predicted in OT and NT. Not about End Times...... What is Worship? What is a Church? You cant interpret The Scripture by yourself!! as i said you dont need to read this, and im sure i cant convince the heart. But was just posing for you to look more into the history of Christianity (Eastern Orthodoxy) since youre great at it. Jay Dyer would be a great person for you to look into it. As i said no need to read this but thank you if you had and no need to listen. I lovee your work and the history you dig into, so thank you anyway and sorry if you did read this! lol

[@heatproofedwrens5449]

​@@yourneighbour3309how is all of the OT about Christ? Or do you mean that it is about God, and as such God is Christ?

[@RoyCyberPunk]

Can I ask this channel host one and one thing only why does his presumed "avatar" in the videos he makes reads "Praise The Watchmaker" I did a search and all I could find is a novel called Praise The Watchmakers which is about Jews during the Holocaust but I have a feeling that you are trying to equate God/Jesus as the Watchmaker but nevertheless it could lead to confusion to some people who might then turn away from this channel as a result. Just saying

[@Pyr0Ben]

It's a reference to William Paley's "Watchmaker argument". Because the entire universe shows evidence of design, down to the smallest atom, it follows that nature had a designer. He's not equating God witha watchmaker, but rather explaining that we ought to praise the creator, not the creation.

[@RoyCyberPunk]

@@Pyr0Ben Well a watch requires a mind a creator so the analogy fits anyway.

[@georgeofthejungle6313]

@@Pyr0Ben The irony of accusing someone else of getting all their information from r/atheism when you get yours from Answers in Genesis. The strongest argument you could make for evidence of design would be life on earth. Beyond that, there is very little sign of design unless your definition of design includes galaxies colliding, stars burning out and black holes making a mockery of our understanding of physics. And given that earth forms less than 0.0000000000000000001% of the observable universe, that's some flimsy evidence you have there.

[@Pyr0Ben]

@@georgeofthejungle6313 um... is this meant to be an argument? Earth is the only habitable planet we know of, therefore no God? Black holes and supernovas exist, therefore no God? You're kidding me. The purpose of everything in space isn't to be live in by us but to proclaim the glory of its creator. And no, I don't really read AiG articles.

[@georgeofthejungle6313]

​@@Pyr0Ben Did I say 'therefore no God'? No, but because your arguments rely on presupposing what your opponent states and then responding with your chart of telemarketing prompts, you have to misrepresent what I said. I didn't even use the word 'God' in my objection. I was dealing directly with the assertion of design and fine-tuning. ' The purpose of everything in space isn't to be live in by us but to proclaim the glory of its creator.' - so just to be clear, you are asserting that 5% of the universe being observable is a design choice for the proclamation of glory? 'Earth is the only habitable planet we know of, therefore no God?' - um, if it's not the only known habitable planet, the argument from design falls apart. Or at least, in its current form.

[@dillydanny-o8807]

Telling the woman at the well is yet another way women are honored as some of the first allowed to share the good news about Jesus-like the women finding him alive first.

[@narrowistheway77]

Good job, 12AD is indeed the correct date for Luke 3’s recounting of when his governorship(ηγεμονία) began, but just an FYI Brother, you messed up your math by forgetting the way Romans, Greeks, and Hebrews counted regnal years. 15th year of his ηγεμονία(governorship aka being declared Caesar, but not necessarily Augustus/Emperor yet) means that at least 14 full years had passed but not yet 15 years had passed. So it was 26AD, and if you check archaeology against Daniel 9 and Nehemiah 2, you’ll also know Jesus was foretold to start his ministry in 26AD in the latter part of Summer as well 😉😁👍🏼

[@Sampster0]

Hey dude the audio for this video was perfect, simple, clear. The memes were hilarious. I think the hook-nose Wojack image in contrast to the entire rest of the video, is a real mistake. I don't think I've ever seen it used in a positive context. IMO it completely yanks me out of the cool argument you're using and immediately makes me instead focus on why you would allow that image to be associated with your content. Would replace that slide with one that have a regular Wojacks (or at least not the specific one you employed), keep the same audio track, and re-upload.

[@maxdavis473]

For a second I thought your shirt said "praise the watchtower"

[@ryanrockstarsessom768]

Thank you

[@SonnyWane]

awesome content

[@PMA65537]

4:54 and we see this in John two after the feeding of the 5000 .... hohoho you seem to mean John six

[@TestifyApologetics]

John too not John 2

[@user-ok4wd3xr2c]

Bro the messianic secret got me traumatize

[@squids]

This one is actually pretty cool

[@Eric_Eric_Eric]

I will lead off saying John has always been my favorite book. The question I always had is how can John differ from when Jesus crucifixion took place. It’s so clear the last supper was Passover Eve. Passover begins sundown and the next day is a sabbath. Matthew, Mark and Luke so clearly say to prepare the Passover. How can John get the timing so wrong on what is the quite literally the most important event of our time. Is it translation bias or John shifted the date to make Jesus be the slaughtered Lamb? That’s all I could ever come up with.

[@MeanBeanComedy]

2:31 Someone's a proud father! 🙄🙄🙄

[@TestifyApologetics]

Yes

[@RodMartinJr]

Could Jesus have kept his identity under wraps because the timing was off? After all, he wanted to spread the Gospel before the Enemies of the Light could gather against him. 😎♥✝🇺🇸💯

[@DominikKoppensteiner]

In Adventist doctrine, the autumn of 27 AD is also the end of the 69 weeks from Daniel 9 (starting with 457 BC) and the beginning of the 70th week, in which he (the Messiah, not the Antichrist) would form a new covenant with many. In the middle of the week, he, the Messiah, would bring an end to sacrifices by becoming our perfect sin offering on the cross 3.5 years after his baptism, in the spring of 31 AD during passover. (By the way, I have heard, that this is also the time, during which the Jews were not allowed to kill anyone [John 18:31]. Maybe you could investigate that claim for a future video, it was allegedly under consul Lucius Aelius Seianus; Also, the pericope adulterae, which some manuscripts insert after Luke 21:38, would make sense in this context, because if Jesus said "Do it", they would have accused him before the Romans, and if he said "Don't do it", they would have accused him of breaking the law of Moses.) The 70th week ends in 34 AD with the death of Stephen. After that, Paul was converted and the Gospel went to the Gentiles and the Jews had lost their privilege. They still had time to repent for 36 years, but they didn't, and the city was destroyed.

[@Boundless_Border]

There's much that can be discussed but I care more about your closing remarks. You imply that somehow we must consider that either we should take the gospel of Joahn as either entirely historical or entirely made up. As you indicate in your prior video the style of John is fairly different and much like how we may be skeptical of the accuracy of a historical fiction more than we would a documentary with artistic licenses. Notably, neither of which have an exact requirement on how many details must be accurate. But they speak to the intent of the author and how certain we can be about whether it is a report or something else. Much like the question of what events in Spiderman are actual history we would be much more uncertain just going off that as we know it is fiction and so will make up many things for other purposes. Yet Spiderman can be depicted attending real elections and so forth despite all the additional fabrications. We simply would be unable to tell if the depicted election was real or not only going off of if it was in a Spiderman comic.

[@ProfessorThock]

I’m always amazed by the mental gymnastics 🤸 stay flexy friend lol

[@TestifyApologetics]

no u

[@thoroughlyunoriginalname]

no u

[@ProfessorThock]

@@TestifyApologetics 😂

[@Pyr0Ben]

Always good to exercise your mind by studying scripture :)

[@thoroughlyunoriginalname]

@@ProfessorThock 😂

[@mauricetravis868]

🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@trentitybrehm5105]

fire

[@nothingnothing7958]

Hey Testify Bart Erhman says 1 Corinthians 15:51 is a false prediction of Paul where he thought Jesus would return within his lifetime and take him and other believers to Heaven how do we answer this?

[@billwassner1433]

Does Erhman show that Paul necessarily includes himself in "we," and that he (Paul) is not referring instead to true Christians in general? If not, then is argument is inconclusive, no?

[@nothingnothing7958]

​@@billwassner1433I was thinking that it's like a preacher today who says " when christ returns we will be raptured into the sky", it's ok to say " we" because Jesus could return in our lifetime but we also know Jesus could return centuries from now. Paul in 1 thessalonians knew Jesus return would be unexpected and he knew in philippians he could die.

[@JuhoPurola]

@@billwassner1433That would make the statements about the return being soon utterly meaningless. And the within their lifetime interpretation fits with Mark 13:26-30.

[@TestifyApologetics]

Inspiring Philosophy has a good series of vids on this

[@billwassner1433]

​​@@JuhoPurola I propose that they are utterly meaningless, and I see nothing in Mark 13:26-30 indicating that Christ's coming was imminent. (I mean "utterly meaningless" not to the passages themselves, but to the interpretation that they indicate Christ's coming as being imminent).

[@masonkesslar8168]

Why is John's gospel the only gospel that omits Jesus excorcising demons?

[@stephengray1344]

Probably because John deliberately chose to include fewer instances of Jesus' healings and miracles than the synoptic authors. He mostly focuses in on ones that particularly highlight Jesus' identity.

[@oenthusiast]

Maybe, since his gospel was the last one written and he was likely familiar with the earlier ones, he felt that they had already covered the subject adequately.

[@rickoshay5525]

Ad Hocness. One of the favorite weapons of the evolutionists.

[@lonerpt7731]

not the point - John was terribly corrupted by Esau [read 'Pharisees'] ch. 1 is about "the creation of eden" [in the other reality] - which Gods covenant is about ! ; Christ never said 'drink my blood' cause prohibited in the OT , etc etc

[@AnHebrewChild]

In the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established. *Mat18 >* Mouth, singular. Truthful witnesses speak with one mouth. This same principle is distinctly called out in the trial narrative of Matthew & Mark: And now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought for witness against Jesus, to put him to death; but found none; yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. For many bare false witness against him, but their witness agreed not together. At the last came two false witnesses... but neither so did their witness agree together. *Mat26* *>*

[@adamstewart9052]

I wonder if this video has anything to do with the Spider-Man fallacy proponents?

[@benabaxter]

​@@UBEUILLBEMEhe has a video on that, FWIW

[@TestifyApologetics]

​@@UBEUILLBEMEyou can stop pounding the table anytime

[@jjnn2]

@@UBEUILLBEME No, it just makes you look silly. If it makes you feel better, I'm mad. I'm so mad I'm crying please don't say this please I'm so angry

[@patrick953]

@@UBEUILLBEME Spiderwoman, why are you still pounding the table?

[@patrick953]

@@UBEUILLBEME No, I am asking why you are still pounding the table?

[@Gospelman777]

John only confirmed what God already told us !

[@ieattwiceaday4116]

Dude I ordered a new kitchen sink im waiting for the tutorial

[@ieattwiceaday4116]

In all seriousness nice video

[@darkwolf7740]

Day 1 of asking for a kitchen sink putting together tutorial video but apologetic style

[@user-ql8kw2pl2k]

Being a "black sheep" doesn't discredit ol John's input by any means.

[@PastPresented]

He's not a "black sheep," he's a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[@user-lt7mv2ui2p]

I don't get this "dunk of the atheist" angle i see a lot of these channels doing these days, isn't our purpose to planet seeds and not mock non-believers, i didn't believe until someone told me "read the gospels of Jesus" and BOOM was on the train. I was distant from GOD because everyone who had a opportunity to teach me was so caught up in their ego. Let's get back to helping people over mocking them

[@TestifyApologetics]

I'm not dunking tho

[@user-lt7mv2ui2p]

@@TestifyApologetics idk the memes in the thumbnails, looks a little condescending to me, like they're a bunch of idiots. I wouldn't want to convert if I saw that, just saying.

[@HealerTheMaroon]

Where do you get the idea that these people where when they spoke and AfroAsiatic Languges and all Afro asiatic languges speakers are black to brown?

[@shin.511]

❤️

[@blastermaster5039]

Yeah. Everyone would end up rallying to Jesus, hail him as king and install him as one as they rebel against Rome. But Jesus doesnt want that since he is just there to preach worship and peace famalan.

[@pakrolska]

Sillymaxxing

[@BenjaminBaschmann]

I believe John was always somehow closer to God; probably by fasting... I have this theory that he became like this because of his experience in the Isle of Patmos... But that's just a theory...

[@anarchorepublican5954]

...Truth is John's 3 year ministry probably more accurate than the Synoptics 1 year framework...

[@TestifyApologetics]

There isn't a 1 year framework in the Synoptics

[@anarchorepublican5954]

@@TestifyApologetics ....well...only one Passover is mentioned in the Synoptics...sounds like the makings of another awesome video...I'm open to being wrong...if it makes the Synoptics more right..."I'm all ears", said 🕷Spiderman🕸...

[@JM-jj3eg]

@@anarchorepublican5954 For all we know from the synoptics, Jesus' ministry could have lasted five years.

[@kevinjin3835]

Theists will take a clear cut, illogical argument, and stretch the wording so long that the fallacy is obscured. It’s the linguistic equivalent of the proof for 1=2, where the 0/0 error is hidden among otherwise correct math.

[@TestifyApologetics]

Point out the specific error don't make vague gestures

[@kevinjin3835]

The argument’s premise is that some of John’s testimony is corroborated by others, and is therefore reliable. A relatively sound premise. The falsely derived conclusion is that the uncorroborated testimony is therefore reliable as well.

[@TestifyApologetics]

I've addressed this many times. Just look for the recent vid with the spooderman thumbnail

[@kevinjin3835]

That other video premises that Luke/acts having corroborated testimony increases its reliability, which is true, then concludes that the entire text must therefore be more reliable than not overall, which is false.

[@nick-apologetics]

W content?

[@AnHebrewChild]

What does W content mean?

[@nick-apologetics]

@@AnHebrewChild great content

[@darkwolf7740]

​@@AnHebrewChildW + great = Wheat

[@KalonOrdona2]

comes from "win," I assume

[@yesyo9109]

So you are saying the other gospels are wrong?

[@TestifyApologetics]

no. would you get that out of what I said?

[@yesyo9109]

@@TestifyApologetics The Gospels do not agree on when Jesus was in the temple. John says it was early in Jesus' ministry, but Matthew, Mark, and Luke say it was near the end. They can't all be right about the timing.

[@patttrick]

My view is that it's an eye witness account,with theologians adding to it.

[@liquidoxygen819]

Jesus sounds like he would've been a very frustrating person to talk to. Getting answers out of him was evidently like pulling teeth; everything he said seems to have been annoyingly intended as some kind of cryptic message or hint: for example, when he says "destroy this temple, and I will build it again in three days", and he was really talking about his body, not the Second Temple (which is what everyone else was explicitly referring to, and which was the background topic for the conversation itself in the first place). Must've driven people up the wall. In the case of his body, "rebuild" is a deliberately misleading, metaphorical word. Must've been agonizing

[@valleyscharping]

It wasn't deliberately misleading, it was the perfect word for the analogy which he was trying to draw their hearts to. They were focused on the temple, when they should have known from the law that Moses received Tabernacle as a pattern from heaven. Jesus Christ is the true Temple. Now I understand if you feel that he gave unclear or indirect answers frequently, because he did, but not to everyone. To his disciples he revealed his plans or his analogies directly and frequently. Just like when he resurrected, he appeared to hundreds but ONLY appeared to his disciples. He came for specific people and for a specific purpose not to answer everyone's bad faith questions (The Pharisees, whoe for example, essentially worshipped the Temple). Your frustration should cause you to ask why he would speak in such a way.

[@JuhoPurola]

@@valleyscharping So, Jesus intentionally made statements to people knowing they would not understand him, and when faced with questioning he acted like the others are foolish for not knowing what he meant and for not agreeing with him from the beginning. I’m not quite sure what tha says about him, but I can say I want nothing to do with a guy like that.

[@BenjaminBaschmann]

Its more like this; "You think you're smarter than me? Prove it." - Jesus

[@BenjaminBaschmann]

​@@JuhoPurola Its more like this; "You think you're smarter than me? Prove it." - Jesus

[@JuhoPurola]

@@BenjaminBaschmann And the other guy proves it, followed by Jesus making some nonsensical statement trying to invalidate the other person, and later gossiping about it to his buddies.

[@David_Brinkerhoff93]

Doesn't change the fact that the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus is fake or that the woman taken in adultery narrative was a later add on. Let's not forget those trinitarian verses that were added in either. Like it or not, John is a fanfiction and has little to do with the historical Jesus.

[@Pyr0Ben]

"🤓"

[@RealGreekLife]

Proof?

[@williamspears1627]

@@RealGreekLife It's unanimously considered to be the youngest gospel, it doesn't claim to be written by john, and it doesn't harmonize with the synoptice gospels (Matthew Mark and Luke).

[@modernatheism]

Lets say I tell you this: "An allien ship arrived in New York and landed on the last floor of the Empire State building, which is the 102th floor". Later you do some fact checking and notice than the Empire State building has 102 floors, just as I said. Does the fact that I got this detail right prove that my entire story is true? Same thing here.

[@Pyr0Ben]

buddy, he already debunked this stupid pseudofallacy multiple times over

[@TestifyApologetics]

no

[@darkwolf7740]

*Strawman intensifies*

[@preciousjatau6244]

No. But provide more little details like 102th floor and we can conclude that you're a New Yorker. The simple argument being made is that John's gospel is consistent with Matthew et al in historical and geographical minutiae.

[@modernatheism]

@@preciousjatau6244 Then we can conclude than John came from the region. Thats all.

[@GentlemanBystander]

I think it's important to note, that is Jesus Christ was a fiction, it was a fiction perpetrated by people who weren't directly connected to each other over about 300 years who had, somehow, managed to get all the historical details correct and (largely) didn't contradict each other for absolutely no net-benefit to themselves. The statistical likelihood that Jesus did not exist grows ever closer to zero.

[@kiddarius]

99% of atheist historians disagree with you. Your Superman Richard Dawkins has even came out and admitted he was being intellectually dishonest by denying his existence. Jews who hate him will even say he was real. Quit the cope, read a book, polish up on your history.

[@planteruines5619]

​@@kiddarius i think he's on our side , but a misspell made the if an is , making it seems he is not