How to assess for Spinal Motion - is the facet joint closed or open?

[@Sahil_Lath]

I mean every time I see this video, No one could have taught us better than this. Just Amazing !

[@JohnGibbons]

Thanks for the message and pleased you liked the video, regards JG

[@embodieddynamics]

To me, this is the clearest and the most concise explanation of FRS vs ERS. I watched this video several months ago. At that time, my background knowledge was insufficient to fully understand it. So I read a couple of books on this mechanism. This concept was still murky after reading the books. And I watched this video again today. I finally get it very clearly. Without this video, it would have been difficult to grasp this concept at a very practical level. Thank you very much, John! I deeply respect you! I've also been enjoying your e-books!

[@JohnGibbons]

Thats amazing to say those comments - thanks a million - regards JG

[@michadora4182]

Discribing the complex matter easy is showing the master. Thanks from Germany. Mike

[@JohnGibbons]

Very welcome!

[@petulajennings9436]

Dr. Gibbons, you are a great teacher. Wow!!! Your explanations are absolutely clear, your presentation slides are amazing. Thank you soooo much. Mi hope you will keep teaching for a long time. God bless you.

[@mna2159]

Thanks John, very well explained. Just a tip, in other videos don't use laser because is not visible in the video instead use something else like stick :) And please make a video for SI joint assessment and treatment manipulations. Thanks in advance :)

[@coleendunn6287]

I also cannot see the laser! maybe if it was a bigger dot? it does help to see where you are referring as you explain. Thank you for these videos.

[@Tachyon111]

I am taking the Manual Osteopathy program in Canada. Your videos are very helpful!

[@JohnGibbons]

Best of luck for your osteopathy studies, regards JG

[@eslamzidan9766]

John ,I would assume that in the last example,it's FRS to the left ,as the left side is deep and is unable to move into closure when the patient is asked to extend or arch backwards, why is it then that you are writing FRS to the right in the left stead??

[@titonathdith1522]

Eslam Zidan I was thinking the same thing Eslam. The dysfunction is on the left facet joint.

[@seanmoloney3296]

@@titonathdith1522 You still have to name the dysfunction by the ease of rotation and side bending. The left was stuck open so it is a flexed segment, but by definition if the left is deep then the right is shallow and so it would be considered rotated right. Rotation and side bending couple in a non-neutral somatic dysfunction, so it would be FRS right.

[@eslamzidan9766]

Ok,let us analyze and break this down to bits and pieces , will we ?? I have thought about why the facet that is presumably and supposedly unable to move and migrate is on the opposite side to the dysfunction and not on the same side, because in this way it would allow and permit the facet to move as freely and as unopposedly as it can be,and to specify things more, in the last example in which the dysfunction is flexion, side bending and rotation to the right ,whilst the facet that is dysfunctional is on the left side,but the entire segment of L5-S1 is fixed in FSR to the right and it is because the left is open allowing the segment to rotate to the right side without putting up any resistance to that abnormal motion , for further clarification the LT side is fixed open as we have illustrated and by the same token when the patient arches backwards the Lt side is fixed anteriorly in an open position giving some room for the right side to rotate backwards even more thus producing more asymmetry as the right side becomes more prominent , and the position of L5-S1 becomes even more asymmetric than the neutral position for the right side traveled more backwards .

[@alminhas07]

Excelent vid. I was having a few doubts concerning this matter, but with this explanation I'm now able to clear those doubts.

[@JohnGibbons]

Glad to hear it! Regards JG

[@tylerbeck3806]

Any reason the Chiropractic profession does not use this evaluation method? We are taught that these fixations only occurred in extension. Thank you for expanding my horizon! I always come to this channel to round out/reality check what I have been learning.

[@JohnGibbons]

Glad it was helpful! Regards JG

[@Tachyon111]

I watched this video 40 times and still get it mixed up in my head 😁

[@JohnGibbons]

It is a complex subject to understand - regards JG

[@stinahystad1529]

Could you make a video showing the practical assessment? Thank you for great videos! Very helpful!

[@baoluo1]

Thanks, John, you fill in the gaps where my tutors are unable to do so. Cheers.

[@JohnGibbons]

Thanks for the lovely comments, regards JG

[@JoePAcalaughs]

So, if I understand correctly.. an easy way to remember would be: It's an ERS if corrected/leveled by extension, an FRS if corrected/leveled by flexion, and the side (Left or Right) would be named by the shallow side.

[@JohnGibbons]

Not quite - If in flexion there is a shallow side it is fixed in extension (ERS) the shallow side - if in extension there is a deep side it is fixed open (FRS) - regards JG

[@JoePAcalaughs]

@@JohnGibbons ok, great. Thanks!

[@mrhmd8308]

Thanks John, is this the same way to assess cervical spine?

[@JohnGibbons]

Not the same for cervical spine - I have videos on that, regards JG

[@baghdeda]

On which theory is this based? In 0:43 you mentioned Harris and Fry 1918 (?), I 've never heard of them.

[@JohnGibbons]

From Harrison Fryette, regards JG

[@baghdeda]

@@JohnGibbons thanks a lot!

[@JacobDiPaolo]

Great video john! I study in Osteopathy right now and no teacher I've had has explained this as well as you, brilliant.

[@JohnGibbons]

Thanks and many osteopathic students want me to lecture at their universities because many tutors struggle with certain components of the course, regards JG

[@ATTherapist]

Thanks John, no doubt a difficult language to present to beginners. I was wondering if this particular video and the one with the Spinal Laws where you mentioned Fryette, and Gracovetsky, are these videos in your courses that you teach to therapists?

[@JohnGibbons]

They are taken from my courses so yes, regards JG

[@floriancarreras8409]

Thanks to you John i've understood this complicated topic.

[@JohnGibbons]

Glad to hear that! Regards JG

[@robertbell9914]

John I fear that I may have this sort of disfunction.. who can I find in the Michigan area that would understand your philosophies?

[@JohnGibbons]

Thanks for the email and have no idea as the US is pretty big compared to Oxford in the uk. regards and hope you find someone, JG

[@21elmoQT]

I definitely enjoyed the talk!

[@JohnGibbons]

Thanks for the message and comments - regards JG

[@Chris102102]

Hi John, finally starting to understand this, I have two brief questions if that's ok. 1) do you go through the flexion extension assessment every time or is this something that becomes redundant with increased palapatory awareness and 2) if it's fixed in an open, would you add an extension lever to manipulate it vice vers for extension

[@JohnGibbons]

Ideally when you test the position of the spine you assess in 3 positions as explained in video - after a while it becomes second nature. I do show a video for the cervical spine - where I close the facets with a side bending thrust, regards JG

[@Chris102102]

@@JohnGibbons hey John thanks for the reply. I really struggle at the moment with the typical SL lumbar etc assessments for flex ext SB rotation. This short lever method is way preferable. Is there one you find yourself doing more? And is that side bending thrust closing a facet that is on the same side as the finger producing the thrust? E.g. atypical to a normal side bending thrust for a contralateral cavitation? Thank you

[@wastelandwanderer2434]

Thank you for your videos, are these the part of a course I could purchase somewhere?

[@JohnGibbons]

My Diploma in Oxford - read the info about the video, regards JG

[@daimahmad4095]

any discount on online courses?

[@JohnGibbons]

Use BMM10 at checkout for a discount, regards JG

[@MrQianfengchen]

hi, when will you organize workshop at Asia? like Singapore?

[@JohnGibbons]

I was invited but they changed the format so if you organise i will come. regards JG

[@flamurbedrolli802]

Nicely explained .

[@JohnGibbons]

Thanks and welcome, regards JG

[@hirephysio]

Sir this is fryette 2 law dysfunction.right Could you please explain type 1 dysfunction also.it would be great help.please do reply . Thanks

[@JohnGibbons]

Yes it is and i do explain type 1 in other videos, regards jG

[@MrQianfengchen]

let say a facet is fixed open, will the patient feel discomfort or painful when he/she do extension ?Thanks

[@JohnGibbons]

If a facet joint is fixed open then the patient will struggle to extend, also think of the Psoas muscle as that can hold the facet in an open position. regards JG

[@daniellewinton2398]

Yea I need to book a course

[@JohnGibbons]

Thanks and link in content to website - regards jG

[@goafreak5625]

Hi John, I had a client complaining of neck pain in in the upper Cx ,(C2/C3 is what I guessed from palpation) With pain on Ext on the right side. When I tested him he seemed to go positive for ERS on the left. Would a stuck facet joint on the left create pain on ext on the right? Cheers

[@JohnGibbons]

Typically a facet restriction on one side can cause symptoms on the opposite side, so treat dysfunction rather than pain, regards JG

[@jiaqingxu3910]

sir it's really a nice video, and also l am interested in some examples of the solutions

[@JohnGibbons]

Thanks, regards JG

[@almata73]

Thank you John so much for your amazing videos. They are so helpful 🙏🙏🙏 I have a question please 🙏 what if there is very tight muscle (very prominent) on one side, how can you figure out if its an open facet? Im just a beginer in osteopath program. Thanks 😊 🙏 Happy New Year to you and your team🎉❤

[@Sahil_Lath]

Amazing, OMG you cleared all my doubts. How can I thank You enough ?🙏

[@JohnGibbons]

Glad it was helpful! regards JG

[@Sahil_Lath]

@@JohnGibbons Kindly visit India ( Chandigarh ) & consider doing workshops here. You will see amazing response from us🙏.

[@baoluo1]

Hi John I know there are two camps that write the diagnosis differently. For example if you're restricted to the right in flexion, we say RFSB right. I know others go the way of ease. I'm just trying to get my head around this. Thank you.

[@JohnGibbons]

Thanks for the message and the restriction will be the opposite motion to where the facet joint is fixed in. So if flexed then cant extend - if closed then cant open etc...regards JG

[@krsport]

G Maitland the Rolfer also explains this. Not half as well as you do though :)

[@JohnGibbons]

Thanks and Geoffrey Maitland has a good book and writes for the same publisher, regards JG

[@michaelborasmussen4475]

Now thats great stuff 👌 Very clinically relevant

[@JohnGibbons]

Thanks, regards JG

[@carrd1]

I finally understand this now. Thank you!

[@JohnGibbons]

Great, regards JG

[@ashderoth]

Great talk thank you for sharing

[@JohnGibbons]

Thanks for the comments and appreciate the kind words, regards JG

[@archanagautam393]

thankyou! it was very helpful.

[@JohnGibbons]

Thanks, regards JG

[@KhalidKhan-xj1sf]

Great Sir 🌹

[@JohnGibbons]

Thanks and pleased I could help - regards JG

[@anandhanmahendran9946]

Great talk , Thank you

[@JohnGibbons]

Glad you enjoyed it! Regards, JG

[@揣鑫]

Thank you very much.🌹

[@Re-assure-Clinic]

Nice

[@JohnGibbons]

Thanks, regards JG

[@aaronlai2754]

Thank you so much !!!

[@JohnGibbons]

Thanks for the comments, regards JG

[@dr.s.p.]

Good content, but your laser pointer is much too difficult to see on all your new videos.

[@JohnGibbons]

Thanks for the message and yes I agree so next videos I will use a pointer, regards JG

[@farhadfatah81]

Nice demondtration john

[@JohnGibbons]

Thanks for the reply, regards JG

[@belgas3139]

🙏❤🙏

[@JohnGibbons]

Thanks, regards JG

[@адам-в7е]

👍👍👍✊

[@JohnGibbons]

Thanks for the thumbs up! - Regards JG