Apple AirPlay's audiophile 'Easter Egg'

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0:00 Intro
1:08 Not for hi-res fans
2:56 How AirPlay 1 works
5:47 How AirPlay 2 works
8:05 Is my receiver AirPlay 1 or 2?
8:21 It's the app wot done it
10:22 Is my app AirPlay 1 or 2?
👉 As mentioned in this video...
This video is based on a written article
📖 darko.audio/2023/10/apple-air...
And here are the video's show notes
📖 darko.audio/2023/10/apple-air...
This video's findings jive with What Hifi’s AirPlay 2 explainer piece (last updated in March 2023) that reads: “However, the news isn’t so good with regards to using AirPlay 2 to send lossless Apple Music streams. Apple Music’s Lossless streams supposedly convert from ALAC (Apple’s lossless codec) into AAC (Apple’s lossy codec) at a pretty lowly 256kbps when transmitted over AirPlay - and therefore not losslessly.”
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Apple Airport Express (discontinued)
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[@AndyP126]

Just because AirPlay is sending things in bursts doesn't automatically mean it's lossy. You can send things in chunks and then reassemble them into a 16/44.1 PCM file in buffer. That doesn't prove anything. You need to intercept the traffic and actually look at the data in the packet.

[@tgp-2]

Correct ... "continuous" network transfer vs bursts doesn't prove anything, but it's an easy way to visually identify buffered vs real-time Airplay streams ... comparing the average bitrates is more convincing More details available here ... docs.google.com/document/d/1BUee0PqM6LC4lo6HqTtEb5bQxs4GoCFSxvEsOveWvS8/edit?usp=sharing

[@meneer_kooi4466]

When I first started watching your channel I was drawn by the mid century modern interiors, your down to earthness and the intro's with the coffee making. Love to see that nothing has changed and the coffee making is back :)

[@JerryZigmontMacWorks]

If your are interested in picking up a used Airport Express with Airplay 1 note that there are two versions- The first Express (model A1084) was wireless A/B/G, and the next gen (model A1264), obviously, is wireless N. They both look the same in the old body style. More importantly, the oler model A1084 doesn't interface with Airport Utility 6.0. at all. It can't be recognized by your network if you're running 6.0 - you'll just see the amber light. So you will need the A1264 to use with Airport Utility 6.0 and have the benefit of N wireless along with Airplay 1.

[@neekondrums]

Absolutely love this video. This is exactly the kind of information I look for, which is to say that it's technical and specific, but it is also not above my head and nicely contextualized so that people can decide for themselves whether or not it's worth taking any action to address. Useful information without a whole lot of judgement or hyperbole. Hit me right in the sweet spot. Thanks.

[@mwmaccount]

John, thank you for an excellent installment. This clarity is much needed.

[@bennozoid1]

Loving the channel. Thanks for all the great insights Sir!

[@nikhoward]

Thought I was watching James Hoffman for the first 40 seconds.

[@tmtrueblood]

This is the most helpful insight to AirPlay I’ve seen. Now, I have to decide which streaming service I need to move to to get the max data rate and best quality. Love the channel and all the information. Bang up job!!!!!!

[@williamsanderson9279]

Thank you for making a complicated subject understandable. BTW, I enjoyed the music background behind the B-Roll in the video. It's a nice touch!

[@mdrlz]

superb research! thanks

[@DarkFire515]

Great video, and also a great V60 pourover technique!

[@RAMIRO61FERNANDES]

Excelente! This is what is realy helpfull! 5 stars on this review.

[@maximumsoftness7469]

Outstanding organization of information and delivery of such! Well done Mr. Darko.

[@blairholmesproductionsinc.9432]

Thanks for the info John Ndola Brother Thomas. Love the music and opening b roll on this one too!

[@Stealther]

Very informative video, thank you!

[@goldenears9748]

Amen brother Thomas

[@beesharp9503]

Thanks for all you do, Jon.

[@tomhohum4275]

I watched this whole presentation to the end and hardly understood any of it. Good job, John 😉. Always entertaining!!

[@sjqideez6626]

Thanks for this guys, much appreciated. I got fed up with this & AirPlay and now I just use a good USB DDC for my DAC. Sorted.

[@tdmduc]

Okay, Enlightened 🙏😇

[@TyRonKitzeRow]

Very good explanation

[@steenhansen8]

Very relevant content !!!

[@ridley68]

You explanation here on why you think it is lossy is either poor or plain wrong. Just because data is sent in bursts does not mean that less data is sent. Full lossless CD Audio is approx 1.5 MBytes per second so approx 15MBytes ever ten seconds. A 5GHz wireless connection can transmit about 130MB per second so you'd need a little over 1/10th second burst to provide all the lossless data you need for the next 10 seconds of playback. It would be highly inefficient to send a tiny amount of data continously. I am suprised tgat AP1 apparently took this approach, bizarre. Do you think the streams that you get from TIDAL or the like are continuous? Well they're not, all Internet data is split up and sent across the Internet in chunks. The chunks may or may not arrive in the right order, but that doesn't matter they're put back together again, perfectly. Besides the next part of the file is only sent when the receiver requests it, the transmitter doesn't just keep sending a huge file as one continuous lump without any handshaking and control from the receiver end.

[@kenmace933]

I love the coffee intros John!

[@markdowner2435]

I’ve been using the DJ Pro app on and off and recently they updated so that you can play Apple Music through it. If you then use Apple Music to Airplay the music to WiiM Pro, the WiiM app shows 900kbps as opposed to the 256kbps if you Airplay directly from Apple Music. Appears to be gapless too (appreciate is a dj app with mixing anyway.)

[@jasonodette8607]

I appreciate your effort 👍

[@RobBobPenny]

Love this content John and Thank You Bro' Thomas. I'm a little old fashioned and use my Mac as the streaming control around the house, so I now need to see how this affects quality too. 🤣 BTW for any AudioPro owners, the Wiim app also controls their hardware and seems a little more stable when selecting radio content. 👍

[@leemartin2978]

Thank you Brother Thomas 👍

[@Cypher_NZ]

I use a Raspberry Pi Zero 2 as my end point and have been trying to get Airplay 2 working. Thanks for video, will stick with Airplay 1.

[@sabrowenie]

My first foray into streaming was Tidal on my iPhone 8 to an older Apple TV with optical output. The optical fed a Schiit Modi3. It’s long been replaced by an assortment of streamers the current ones being a Node and WiiM Mini. I use the same DAC on the WiiM

[@Rory626]

Apple could win over so many audiophiles if they just properly sorted out Apple Music lossless and made it as good as Spotify Connect

[@NeilLavitt]

So true, the issue is that audiophiles are a tiny group and are not worth catering for. It may well get done at some point, but at this time, they are catering for the bigger group.

[@mongo2044]

I think you mean *work* as good as (UX) as Connect. Apple Music in lossless is better sounding than lossy Spotify.

[@bestuurdvsgroningen3603]

Good video! Lately I made quite the effort to stream lossless files to my integrated amplifier. I connected an apple tv a1469 with toslink to the amp and put all 16-24 bit 48khz (I read somewhere that 48khz 24bit is the highest an apple tv can handle but brother thomas's table seems to indicate otherwise) music in the music app on my iPhone. For a moment there I thought that all this effort has been futile but my phone shows the finch without circle when selecting the apple tv for music. I looked somewhat further into it and it seems as if this apple tv (happily) does not support airplay 2. I'm surprised at how complicated all of this is and determined not to get a newer apple tv soon.

[@reviewlaunch]

To play cd quality from Apple Music. You need a1264 airplay 1 . Connect to a good dac . And set to 7.5.2 version.

[@rohrek]

Very interesting video thank you! Do you know if using the Apple Music app on the Apple TV wired to an amp prevents the downsampling?

[@1actionkamen]

Good to know! I am still using shairport-sync on my nano-pi with toslink hat and even considered replacing it Wiim pro just to get Airplay 2. I think i will skip this upgrade then :)

[@higurashinerd]

I love the more technical discussions! Especially on the software/hardware interaction. Knew of Airplay 1 & 2 but not of their technical differences. A lot of the information here confirms my own suspicions about AirPlay's 'inconsistencies' and why I disliked Apple Music over even just Spotify in some cases.

[@kl9941]

John, this is f***king insane. It does explain finally why when I stream Amazon Music or my ripped CD's via AirPlay (I assume AP2) on an iPhone 12 to the Wiim Mini endpoint, the sound is definitely inferior as compared to streaming CD quality from the Wiim Mini Amazon app to the Mini endpoint. I thought I was imagining the lower audio quality. Thanks to you and Brother Thomas!

[@johnpischedda6951]

Thanks John and Br Thomas , Very informative. Who would have thought that Airplay 2 would compromise the sound quality? Before (tidal,spotify) connect came along Airplay was the streaming choice for many albeit Airplay 1.

[@mongo2044]

It did not. This is only a situation under specific use while using paid Apple Music streaming. I stream fine ALAC files from a Mac using iTunes Remote on iOS as well at Lightning to USB to DAC to amp.

[@stevenwaldstein2249]

Thanks for the video. Still confused on how to play my Apple Music to my stereo with either a WiiM Pro or Node 2i end point. Also using Roon server for all my ripped CD in FLAC but know how that works. Must I go thru an iPhone or iPad?

[@Mr_Quimper]

My brain hurts.

[@aarondr0pdead]

Thank goodness for this pious audiophile and his devotion.

[@KellyPauw]

I like your videos. Extremely easy to understand hard to get material like losless, lossy, hardware and app differences. However I am missing an overview which apps support airplay 1 for losless music.

[@1chrisrowe]

Very interesting video.

[@tomgilbertson2279]

John, love your content , great job. (thanks B Thomas!)Kinda, make me wonder why spend $$$$$ on high end gear if the source is typically streaming? If source material is CD or vinyl then one could make a case for a bigger budget for gear. John thanks for helping us sort facts from marketing (hardware and software).

[@9thstreetbrandt]

Loved this video, there are many of us I suspect that really appreciate this!

[@marcgoldstein2957]

I can smell the coffee looking at this.

[@themilk3]

Please continue this kind of videos....this was so interesting and informative. It's crazy how there is now direct info on this on Apple's website for example. Oh and thank brother Thomas (I hope I wrote his name right HAHAH)

[@Lou-f]

Would love to hear how you rate the Apple AirPort Express using one (analog output) to your recent reviews of more modern kit. I I’m still buying stand LP’s so use it for radio. Ta

[@Sampardhanani]

Lovely insight on the AirPlay theory brother John.

[@Cathul]

When you put the music files onto your iOS device it's always transmitted with ALAC encoding. The fallback to AAC is only if the files are streamed wirelessly from another device to the iOS device to the AirPlay2 receiver. I verified this with my own shairport-sync installation which has a debug mode when started on the command line. ;)

[@jasongoughuk]

So if I download an album that I would like to listen to in the lossless quality option, and then airplay stream it to my Bluesound powernode… That would continue to transmit in CD lossless quality? And are you sure about your findings?

[@robertson1a]

Love your reveal of why Brother Thomas is named so at the end.

[@d.j.vandermeer3832]

I use the button below Airplay on my iPhone or iPad, use the device as a remote. That way I can go directly to the streaming device and can even close Apple Music and the stream will continue. For automations I use the Homekit app and here this is also working.

[@johnpischedda6951]

Hi John! Dig the Jazz soundtrack music on this vid. As stated, the apple airport needed a 3.5 to to toslink cable to your DAC. Unfortunately i found the drop outs unbearable. I had to go 3.5 to RCA into the amp and use the internal airport DAC. With this configuration at the time, I found the sound decent with no drop outs. Things have moved on from then with Connect features and DAC's. But you got me thinking ! Im going to do a comparison between my old Apple Airport set up and current streaming kit to hear how far along i've actually come.

[@RickRolling-tc7vb]

Thanks John, and thank you Brother Thomas. It really isn't simple, is it? I like multi-room audio, so I was delighted with Airplay 2. I was already running Shairport/Airplay 1 on a Raspberry Pi 3B+ in my lounge room, and I bought the Apple TV 4K for my televsion and stereo in my media room. However, I endured consistent and regular loss of audio from the Apple TV anytime I selected more than one endpoint, anywhere from 3 minutes to half an hour at most. Single endpoint always worked fine.The Shairport never missed a beat. I changed the TV, the amplifier, the phone, the network, all the operating systems and yet the problem persisted for over a year: it looked like the AppleTV was playing the music, but no sound came out. I wasn't alone, some on the apple forums with similar experiences, but no real solution. I found, eventually, that Mike Brady had developed shairport-sync, an Airplay 2 client, and that did the trick: with now only Airplay 2 endpoints, I have consistent multi-room audio and no more drop outs. So mixing that protocol didn't work out so well for me, your mileage may vary.

[@hamidrezahabibi8111]

The Nice 👍 One ☝️ Great information.

[@michaelruss9604]

This finally explains why there is an easily perceptible difference (for me) between playing music locally through my M1 Mac mini as the source for my hifi rack vs streaming from my 13mini! I did tons of research a while ago and the findings were similar in that AirPlay 1 devices reliably did cd quality lossless, however there was no rhyme nor reason to it. Nice to have an explanation :)

[@mongo2044]

If you mean from a mac to your system by , no Airplay, macOS has no exclusive mode, unlike iOS. Are you adjusting Audio MIDI Setup on the mac so it matches your audio file? For every song… If not, like me, I just set mine to 24 bit/176.4 kHz as none of the bit perfect add ons from third parties work all that well and that setting works well for nearly all music resolutions for upsampling. If by Airplay from mac to your system, Audio MIDI Setup does not come into play.

[@antwake]

thanks a lot for all of this john! not keen on the brother thing tho 😉

[@BrentWatkinsMusic]

I like the nod to Cheapaudioman - except you show how a proper cup of coffee should be made.

[@2shoestoo]

Does that imply my Kcups suck? 😀

[@ChrisThompsonthetechguy]

Hi, I have never used any Apple product but still loved learning more about it. Do you think you could do a video comparing Roon Plex Amp? I use Plex Amp and have Roon but rarely use it. I control my music with whatever screen is nearest to me. I also use the Sony NW-ZX707.

[@djhmax09]

I'd love to know how those sonus faber duetto sound on a desk, if you ever get a chance (or if they're just too big)

[@Selene_M3]

Spotted the Baratza grinder. I use my iPhone to control the AppleTV4k for Apple Music, HDMI to AVR. Still have an AirPort Express in a box not currently used.

[@branikkkk]

Airport express (the one that looks like white apple tv) got it's Airplay2 update via software. I'm not so sure about HW lvl of Airplay2 you were talking about. Still interesting video. Thanks!

[@sickdevs]

This is wild, thank you very much folks 🙏😎

[@amosshearer1137]

So my iPhone 13 mini, very popular phones I hear, to my Airplay 1 Yamaha 803 will be a better option than sticking a WiiM in between them. Timely as I was on the lookout for one of these.

[@AdamJRichardson]

As soon as the Sonus Fabers got announced I figured those were what you had under the covers in a recent video. Looking forward to that review!

[@bodowagener2670]

Streaming Airplay to the Cambridge Audio CXN V2. How can I find out whether the CA app is a AP1 or AP2 implementation?

[@leemazur870]

Very pleased to see your upgraded coffee game - filter coffee is the best coffee! Try a stir of the slurry at the end of your pouring to get those high and dry grounds to draw down fully - you'll get a more even extraction and balanced cup.

[@LencoTB]

Coffee isn’t healthy as many people think. It contains acrylomide

[@sixergixer]

@@LencoTBNeither is the air we breath.

[@dexterts1]

Yeeees,great one Jon,this topic really needed addressing! Now for part two,sound comparison between airplay one and two stream and should we all get that aging ariport bridge 😂

[@ridley68]

You do know that ALL network transmitted data is not sent continously? Ie the files are sent in "bursts" (packets) Just because the data is not sent continously does not mean it's lossy!

[@johnsonlam]

Thank you to Brother Thomas research.

[@ekjellgren]

That's some nice V60 action! Do you have some good local roasters in Berlin?

[@garyvaiskauckas8463]

Great investigative work John and Brother Thomas! .... May I suggest a topic for another video: the Apple Music app feature to "Control Other Speakers & TVs" for those who want to stream Apple Music Lossless controlled by their iPhones. I avoid AirPlay 1 or 2 for reasons that John stated in the beginning of the video (battery drain, loss of music when out of WiFi range, or interruption when taking a phone call). My preferred method is to use the iPhone as merely a remote control by choosing the option to "Control Other Speakers & TVs". In my case the other devices are Apple TV 4K's connected via HDMI to Oppo 205 and 105D. The device being "controlled" then streams Apple Music Lossless directly from the internet. Cheers, Gary

[@YouTubes33]

That's a useful comment. Will definitely try that! 💯

[@guystpierrecomposer]

Question: what append when the music is downloaded to the iPhone?

[@DavidHead61]

Great video and info John and Brother Thomas. I also tried various ways to listen to Apple Music on my setup (BlueSound POWERNODE and Polk Audio Reserve R200 speakers), including streaming from an iPhone, an iPad, a MacBook Pro and an AppleTV. I found that the best quality was directly from an LG tv with the Apple Music app installed (via LG WebOS) and using the HDMI connection.

[@andrewcrossley2448]

Or just get an Apple camera cable a top end DAC and wire it into a high quality stereo. Apple Music and Apple Classical via a small iFi ZEN Signature DAC v2 is full HiRes and sounds better than any BlueSound product I’ve demoed. The iFi holds its own with top Rega and Marantz amps into serious speakers such as AE 520s. The Node system is less accurate.

[@mongo2044]

I think the webos LG app on the TV has a really nice interface. Maybe the best. However, note that Apple Music controls like that on a non Apple device, stream only AAC 256. But it still sounds great!

[@bzcup]

The delay at start and during play/pause might be a hint on what AirPlay version is used on a particular setup.

[@tigertiger1699]

Priceless 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@johnfogarty4720]

Why oh why oh why. Just keep it simple Apple FFS. Stop thinking for us. Thankyou Brother Thomas and Brother Darko for this analysis. I just want to hit play and listen to lossless music all the time. This is not science fiction.

[@LoniGuitarChannelHr]

There is one more mode when Apple stream losess - from Mac, when you in audio setting in remote control app (or in apple music app on Mac) select streamer as output device.Then you should get lossless audio stream, you can then control playback with remote app.

[@paulinquebec]

I’ve noticed this stays as lossless too… but I have read in other threads that it’s only really indicating the source quality and upon arrival AirPlay 2 is still playing as lossy aac.

[@kevinholliday2066]

Great information mate. Question… I have AirPlay 1 hardware for sure, so I'm happy about that I guess. However, what's interesting is that when I'm streaming to the AirPort Express from my iMac, there is no 2-second play/pause delay. I use Roon and the core is on my iMac, but I basically remote control the Roon Core from my Roon app on my iPhone (if that makes sense). When I pause the music it is instant. BUT… if I play Qobuz straight from my phone to the AirPort Express, there is indeed a pause. Roon is sourcing from Qobuz, but no delay. What do you think is happening at the Roon level that enables it to not have the delay? Thanks mate.

[@sneakyds]

Cf. The audiophilestyle article from a couple of years ago entitled “Apple Music Lossless Mess Part 2: AirPlay” which also goes into this in some detail from a slightly different slant

[@roadhouseguy]

Curios if this would also apply to streams which are hosted and initiated from a HomePod running Apple Music natively and then airplay to a receiver? Meaning the phone is not transmitting anything. Since the HomePods are always plugged maybe battery isn’t a consideration.

[@lvervoortify]

I stream Apple Music from my 2022 iPad via Airplay onto my Anthem AVM 70, Accuphase a45, Martin Logan electrostats. It sounds incredible, couldn't dream for a better sound. Only downside still is that often at about 10 seconds in a track it may skip a bit. Known glitch with Apple Music. Hope they will solve this.

[@rumbolzpunktde]

New picture on the wall? Your work? Like it.

[@timothyfrost6543]

I have major problems with trying to run my Kef app on my ipad. I don’t know if this is a fault with apple or with kef. Often airplay stops recognising my ls50 wireless ii speakers. But also the kef app stops recognising my speakers too 🤷 I’ve tried deleting and reinstalling the app, resetting the speakers, restarting my ipad. Unlikely to be my network as I have super-fast broadband and no problem streaming tv programmes and music on my Denon speakers. Answers on a postcard please 🙂

[@michaelwerbick]

Thanks for the tip on identifying airplay 1 v 2 with the marks... If I am streaming via my iPhone, I am not concerned about total quality as I'll have my airpods in or be using my Sony headphones on an airplane. If I want to Listen, I stream via my 1st gen AppleTV 4k that has lan connectivity, use the HDMI out, and ultimately ending in the receiver and not using any bluetooth or airplay. You CAN tell a difference. I have an older Denon AVR 1911 and using Mirage 1090I for the fronts and bi-wire them.

[@sheglova]

It seems it would make more sense if the receiver and media source supports it, to send the URL for the media steam to the receiver, then the sender just basically becomes a remote.

[@g000se99]

I’m using airplay2 to buchartd gear via an AirPort Express - sound is lovely. My only concern is it could sound lovelier… but I’m in it for the ride, and happy to roll along. I also don’t think this packet theory is correct ❤

[@vladimirkremlacek]

So that means only way how to get Lossless sound from Apple Music iOS app is using wired connection when receiver is AirPlay2?

[@JohnKaess]

I guess i'm unusual. I never stream music from my phone. I stream all my music from my 27" iMac. Mostly i use JRiver Media Center as my source, but occasionally Apple Music. I stream to a stereo pair if Homepod 2's in my office. I also play music from my iMac through JRiver Media Center via &SB to my Dac -> Headphone Amp -> Headphones. Obviously that is always hi-res, full but depth with out any lossiness. I'm wondering though if i'm using JRiver on my iMac to airplay to my stereo 2's, is it being downgraded to lossy or not? Your very thorough video doesn't seem to look at this type of situation. Can you hrlp clarify this, please?

[@rahulkaran5265]

When is the Duetto review coming out?

[@radu_c]

Please put in every video a coffee making clip :D

[@rosswarren436]

Wonder if the general sentiment that Qobuz sounds better than Tidal or others stems in part from it being CD quality via Airplay while the others are AAC 256kbps? Great video and great written article too perfectly explaining this mess. Come on Apple get with it and give us the choice to enable Airplay 1 or 2 on our Apple devices. Of course, we need streamers with software that can do the same. Maybe WiiM could give us a toggle between Airplay and Airplay 2 functionality. That way we could decide what is more important to us, sound quality or battery life.

[@roccobruno8027]

Filed into the Doh category. I use the Onkyo HD app to stream to an AirPlay 2 AVM 70, so I can only wonder about what I'm actually hearing.

[@GadZookz]

Thanks Dariko! This is useful info.

[@kekomelero]

Hi everyone! Amazing job, John! Really usefull! Does anyone know, who is Brother Thomas? 😅 Im trying to look for him on the internet! Thanks!

[@mistermarkdavis]

I'm confused by the table showing bitrates. If I am streaming 24/48 from apple music to airplay2 is it ALAC or AAC? How Can I test it?

[@Sven-yl4py]

I use my Apple TV 4K to stream Apple Music over Airplay to my Powernode 2i. I start it with a scenario in the Home app activating them to play an album or playlist which I change from time to time. I then use Control other speakers….. in the Controlcenter on my iPhone or iPad to manage the music playback. This works very good, even better now with IOS 17. I have compared the sound with Tidal, and I really can’t tell any noticeable difference. I have read that the HomePod uses 24/48 Bitrate when paired with an other HomePod. Can it be that Apple Music down samples to AAC when you stream over Airplay from an iPhone or iPad to preserve power, and use ALAC when streaming from an AC connected device like HomePod and Apple TV when power consumption is no issue. It would be interesting if you John or Brother Thomas, or anybody else, could try to verify this. As I say, Apple Music over Airplay from Apple TV to my Powernode 2i sounds really good and is super easy to operate with the Home app.

[@canuckchris5733]

A little of topic But I noticed in the settings of my usb c AirPod pros. It says you can’t use Crossfade when using Airplay I’m using Bluetooth and seeing this Is this a possible hint to usb c AirPods using a combination of Airplay and Bluetooth to possibly stream Lossless with a future update

[@sasagpopovic]

Dueeettooooo! 🤩🤩

[@hansoosterwal4073]

nice audio furniture!

[@andrewcrossley2448]

Mine is very similar. My Grandma’s 1960s sideboard and SolidSteel stands….but my TV is on a White IKEA stand to match other bits of the room….