Grief in Death's Shadow | "The Old Sugarman Place" Explained

SPOILER WARNING FOR SEASONS 1-6 OF BOJACK HORSEMAN
The Old Sugarman Place is my favorite episode of BoJack Horseman. This story comes on the heels of Sarah Lynn’s untimely death, at a point where the audience and BoJack are both grieving, and fittingly, grief is what is explored so thoroughly in this episode. Primarily through the eyes of BoJack, Honey Sugarman and Eddie the Dragonfly, we take an in depth look at the many ways death and grief can break us, and the ways that improperly dealing with that grief can have major long term effects on us and those we love. Enjoy this breakdown of this masterpiece from BoJack Horseman season 4.
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Video Used:
BoJack Horseman (2014-2020)
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#BoJackHorseman #BoJackHorsemanFinale #BoJack #BoJackSeason6 #BoJackFinale

[@Johnny2Cellos]

I’ve got some regrets about how I covered the stages of Grief in this video! Obviously these stages aren’t linear or the same for every person and I should have acknowledged that. If I could do this video over I’d have done it differently. I do think there’s still some insight into how these characters grieved, but I wouldn’t have covered it in such a linear fashion if I did this over again.

[@bfffggffdfd]

Respect for coming back and amending something so old already. Love your work!

[@hopper8514]

I think you did alright. If you feel like you should redo this, go ahead! It would be awesome to see you come at this with a fresh mind.

[@jasonmalice]

You did fine.

[@svlagonda7417]

Brilliant analysis and explanation.

[@stevechance150]

The way you expose the cycles of abuse from one generation to the next and then repeated again onto successive generations, is invaluable. It's something that lots of everyday people experience. Thank you.

[@spookymadeleine]

There's something ironic about Honey being lobotomized, subsequently losing brain function, while her children died from a bullet wound to the head and from complications of dementia. All of her children ended up having "half a mind"

[@gwendolynstata3775]

And the reason Beatrice always had her guard up and refused to show any kind of vulnerability was because she was scared of also being lobotomized, only for Alzheimer's to take away her mental capacities anyway, damn.

[@ndhdysu5933]

Butterscotch died by smashing his head on a rock, I think thats pretty close to "half a mind". He has nothing to do with Honey though lol

[@MyAmbianceLiveNow]

:( sad facts

[@veronikapermaul5531]

@@ndhdysu5933 I always wondered if he committed suicide but it was called something different because no one wanted to admit it.

[@kellyhoward1956]

oh my GOOOOOODDD

[@alyssals2530]

Its kind of scary how Honey's breakdown is so reminiscent of Bojack's destructive behaviours - drinking, making advances on people she shouldn't, asking a child to drive (endangering someone shes responsible for - like bj and sarah lynn) while acting like everythings fun and okay. i might be reaching but i think the intergenerational trauma is shown so well in this show

[@lujorom9172]

I was your 666th like, which symbolises how trauma and a lack of coping mechanisms is the devil (666) of the Sugarman/Horseman family.

[@joyflameball]

And the whole "I want to be better" thing is another parallel between them.

[@andrewkohler3707]

Excellent connection!!

[@Kitty-ex2gq]

I like to think honey has BPD and has passed on coping mechanisms to Beatrice and Bojack

[@jocelynnmariah2993]

I think this family suffers from generational borderline personality disorder, and they constantly cycle each other’s traumas.

[@wut-dah_7212]

"Well that half you can keep." Oh my god.

[@TonyDSends]

That line really hit hard on the 2nd binge

[@wut-dah_7212]

@@TonyDSends No kidding.

[@zestybutterfly7161]

The lobotomy took away her emotions though, so strictly speaking she didn't get to keep that half.

[@higaiwokeru]

@@zestybutterfly7161 well, I guess you can say Joseph was talking about Honey’s ability to kiss him, not love him

[@emiliam2279]

love the pfp

[@TriforceWolf93]

Anyone else make the connection between Eddie’s past with Lorraine and him saying “I wanted to see how high we could go” and BoJack inviting Sarah Lynn on an “epic bender”

[@pavement66]

Did not consider that detail, great insight.

[@Johnny2Cellos]

Really great insight, wish I’d thought of it!

[@kenya1067]

Whoa!

[@orrissirro]

Didn't Saralynn invite Bojack on the "epic bender"? Either way a great observation

[@mssthinktank181]

Brett Roberts bojack invited sarah lynn, she was like 9 months(i think) sober at the time

[@sketchyjulia]

One of the background designers, Kelly Wine, desired the lake house wallpaper with horseshoes and acorns, because acorns are poisonous to horses and it foreshadowed the horrible events that would take place while the Sugarmans stayed at the lake house and the poison that would continue decades later

[@Johnny2Cellos]

LOVE this detail, thank you for sharing!

[@gracekim1998]

Whoa

[@Hotpink51]

holy shit... I keep finding new reasons to love this show

[@Jarod-sm5rf]

Wow that’s dedication there this show rocks

[@rubbergamer5092]

How the fuck do you even eat acorns. Besides chipmunks and squirrels.

[@pixwool]

It’s so damn sad that Honey wasn’t able to finish the cycle of grief. What she said was probably in the heat of the moment. She never wanted to have her mind destroyed like that.

[@sully2932]

Intense mental pain can make you desperate. Imagine how hard being unable to escape the anguish of losing a child must be.

[@katdeasyy]

I know how intensely you want things to stop when you feel such strong anguish but to imagine someone taking that pained wish and destroying your brain because of it instead of helping you through the dark is so twisted and scary , women have so often been prevented from healing and instead just silenced

[@SJ-ni6iy]

My great aunt was given a lobotomy, after losing a child. She lost her son, who was only 6 years old, to an illness. A short time later, she was getting off a bus in Chicago and tried to take another woman’s baby. She spent the rest of her life in a mental institution.

[@SitaraAleu]

Therapy as we know it today didn’t really exist back then, especially for women. 85 percent of all lobotomy patients were women, many of whom were put through it either for grief, like Honey, or else they were too sassy, too spirited, too smart, or mentally disabled. Lobotomies were only widely performed for a little over twenty five years, but in that short window of time until they were banned in 1967, they destroyed dozens of lives.

[@theotherohlourdespadua1131]

She unfortunately made a deal with the devil...

[@NomzNoodle]

The phrase “why I have half a mind...” is still the most haunting and chilling line of dialogue in any piece of media I know. I get goosebumps every time I hear it

[@christinethuo6840]

I was shouting at the screen to stop saying that

[@jraxreviewsxcosplayxmore6934]

That hurt to hear... it was so disturbing.

[@korikeniston3796]

Was on the verge of tears the whole episode and that's the line that made me lose it. The show was written too well and it came full circle into a brick wall of emotion 😭

[@Bleak]

I thought it was an ill-natured punchline. I found it crude. But isn't what she said indicative of Bojack's humor despite his tragedies? He's basically his grandmother's charisma incarnate, but carrying generational woes that siphon the authenticity out of his stand-up comic routine. His humor is like his lobotomized grandmother's. That's poignant.

[@isaiahromero9861]

One of my favorite things about this show is that even though there are major tone shifts, the "language" of the show always stays the same and it never feels too jarring. The jokes and puns actually convey certain themes in such a unique way that can't be conveyed in a strictly realistic writing style. That "half a mind" line is structured as a joke, but it's not meant to be funny, the wordplay actually elevates the tragedy which is just so genius. I think this show is the pinnacle of dramedy.

[@emilynelson1969]

My family is riddled with generational abuse on both sides, and seeing this portrayed on tv in such a creative way gave me a lot of valuable perspective about my own life

[@gothicMCRgirl]

Same here, maybe it’s not as bad as the Sugarman family, but both sides of my family have recurring issues with absent father figures and neglectful/abusive mother figures. My sister has a toddler now and I wince every time she just goes off on her kid because I can already see the patterns forming already, and my nephew isn’t even 3 years old yet. I don’t want kids, not in the slightest. My issues are my own and I would NEVER want any kid of mine to suffer through the consequences of what my family passed down to me.

[@loverrlee]

Same. Watching these insightful videos helps me gain perspectives to help me heal from my own generational abuse. Thanks to the creators of the show and to all the talented and brilliant KZbinrs who have made truly life changing content. ♥️

[@lizishengelia9833]

@MasterStryfe What's so funny?

[@ani-ma-tion5326]

Same for me, Watching this episode made me feel less alone.

[@astridkjellberg]

@@gothicMCRgirl same.

[@JamesEmery6]

this episode truly demonstrates the butterfly effect when it comes to cycles of abuse.

[@WobblesandBean]

Yes. That's part of why I never wanted kids. I can't trust myself to raise them, I think I'd screw them up like my parents did to me.

[@JamesEmery6]

Wobbles and Bean - I don’t know your situation but if you feel that is best then do that. I also feel deeply committed to never having kids, i cannot imagine the trauma that i could even inadvertently cause to another being under my supervision.

[@bonniedoon4071]

Intergenerational trauma is a very interesting subject, sorry I don't have a source but if you read around, there is good evidence that it can change one's genes and brain chemistry

[@JamesEmery6]

Bonnie Draeger - sounds interesting. I wanna look into that

[@flamingmidas]

@@WobblesandBean by

[@rolanslide8509]

god. the reason Honey and Eddie can duet across time is because they are both accustomed to singing and harmonizing with another person. god fuck

[@ihateyoube]

i am sobbint

[@pidgypod]

When Honey said “never love anyone as much as I loved Crackerjack. Why, I have half a mind-“, this could just be a random thought she finished mid-sentence, but it could also be her explaining to Beatrice that her love of Crackerjack is why she was lobotomised: “never love anyone as much as I loved Crackerjack. *IT’S* why I have half a mind-”

[@angelcalderon5680]

Think it was just supposed to be a really dark joke, to cement the tragedy of the event

[@queenla227]

It could be interpreted as a thought she can’t complete (like she had something more to tell Beatrice), but I think that it’s what the other commenter said about “dark humor” (like when she tell Joseph she has half a mind to kiss him).

[@rubbergamer5092]

Really I think she was cut off because of either lobotomization or she was just saying it as it is. She has half a mind. Or maybe the time mr sugarman cut off the piano duet between cracker jack and honey was foreshadowing to her cutting of her sentences.

[@liberationgz4120]

Mind blown Edit: I didn't realize I made a pun until after submitted the comment

[@Zaedia1999]

The advice honey Sugarman gives to her daughter Beatrice “ never love anyone as much as I love to crackerjack.” is the most haunting and scary advice I have ever heard of Mother say to their child and a TV show

[@exxon101]

You said we don't see Bojack bargaining, but that's what the house reconstruction is. The desperate idea that if he can fix the house, he can fix himself, like a plea to an unhearing God. And of course, then, the hidden meaning that Bojack is incapable of fixing the house (or himself) and needs the help of others (the fly). The rehab clinic is the obvious next step. Good video.

[@Tkokat]

Nice interpretation

[@allendepacheco3419]

And then he destroyed the house and believing it was a huge waste of time. He also ruined his relationship with the fly by trying to budge himself into his problems. Could be for shadowing to how Bojack had never learned with the house reconstruction and he won't with rehab while also ruining his relationship with his rehab therapist. There are people who do want to help Bojack to fix himself but he keeps pushing them away whether intentionally or not

[@ashb609]

I just realized the place was called Harper’s Landing and in the the episode downer ending of season 1 Bojack’s hallucination daughter he had with Charolette was named Harper

[@Johnny2Cellos]

Yep! One of my favorite details

[@puppyhowler]

also harper kind of looked like Beatrice ngl

[@ssai90]

And she was voiced by Sarah Lynn’s actress (I think?)

[@bfffggffdfd]

@@ssai90 Harper is voiced by Alison Brie, Diane’s actor

[@lujorom9172]

I wonder why though. Why would Bojack name his daughter after the place his abusive mother spent her summers (and suffered trauma)? Why would he name his daughter after that place...

[@samanthastephens5285]

Coming back to this episode I just wanted to mention: the look of anger on Beatrice's little face in the last scene she appears in. Joseph said Honey was better and acted like there was absolutely nothing wrong with the shell of a person that Beatrice ended up meeting. Grief leaves you sick, but its the bitterness that will truly poison your heart. She already lost her brother. Now her mother is gone as well. Eventually even her doll would burn. She had a lot to be angry about.

[@purplenutria1351]

i feel so sorry for joseph, the guy try to remain strong and do the solutions society portrait at that time to do the best to hes family, one of the moments who break my hearth is josep desmostrating ''honey is better'' is a lie when he try to discuss with her in their bedroom, and its curius how joseph never cry o let people him bad, the things he demostrate uis just being heppy positive or angry, i remember having patients like him really hurted in their feeling but saying ''im the man in my family, i cant feel worst than my family'' just sad i think people really dont understand joseph in the series.

[@toolatetothestory]

@@purplenutria1351 Ehhh. I can't fully agree, but I do think that he chose the solution that was just most known at the time for his manic depressive wife, and back then, Lobotomy was still accepted. I can't even fault him too much there.

[@jumentogenial-oi2oo]

​@@purplenutria1351 I had never realized that. It makes sense even in today's times people have difficulty accepting men crying my family did this to me I can't cry in front of others because my entire childhood I was emotionally invalidated and now I only cry when I'm alone because crying is good but I can't in front of others. not that I like josef after what he did but everyone in the family did bad things because they were suffering and I feel sorry for everyone and now your comment made me feel bad for josef too who was the only one I didn't sympathize with but now I see it differently.

[@purplenutria1351]

@@toolatetothestory when we see joshep at all times in this chapter hes always a positive man who try to remain strong at any moment, from.the start to the end he just follows tradition and try to make their family better, he dont left honey, he dont left hes daughter, he is just a damaged man who need to be the head of the family. Again the thing who desmotrste to me he whas not a bad person is he really trying to help hes family after hes som is dead, hes wife "cheat on him" and become gradully insane and having a kid he need to work for

[@purplenutria1351]

@@jumentogenial-oi2oo i dont like joshep because hes the embodiment of ignoring the real issues because he "need to be stoic" but i dont think hes a bad man At all

[@lou5956]

This episode spoke to me. My grandmother lost a brother in WWII, this impacted the way she treated my mother, and how my mother treated me. The trauma bleeds down through generations.

[@simonpetrikov3992]

It is a bit of a tragedy from a biological sense that stuff like can wipe out entire bloodlines decades after the initial event

[@unimaginativecommentary2055]

That seems oddly specific

[@KD-ou2np]

@@simonpetrikov3992 it happened to millions of people

[@simonpetrikov3992]

@@KD-ou2np i just find it bizarre personally but hey weird stuff happens all the time

[@alicianelson1252]

Sad but one person can break the cycle

[@arentyougladimnotabot]

The duet scene really gets me and I wondered if CrackerJack and Lorraine each sang the other half of the duet with Honey and Ed when they were alive.

[@Johnny2Cellos]

I do think that’s the implication!

[@saphirawinters7028]

Wait Ed and Lorraine? I might be reaching here but do you think they chose those names because of Ed and Lorraine Warren?

[@meghnalekshman4137]

@@saphirawinters7028 Oh shoot, that's where I've heard those names before!

[@lilianag7092]

@@saphirawinters7028 I think it’s possible. The show does have nods to real life people even if there isn’t a symbolic meaning and they’re just there as a fun Easter egg.

[@KindredKeepsake]

@@saphirawinters7028 That scared me! o_o Whoa!

[@Heating56]

Jospehs’ “it’s only ghosts here in the winter” paralleled with Bojack falling asleep in the freezing house was always striking to me

[@kevin.peixoto]

yes!! I don't understand why this isn't talked about more. I personally felt it was one of the harder hitting moments of the episode

[@flamingmidas]

If you look closely in some scenes you can free Beatrice carrying her baby doll in this episode. Specifically when she's on the porch with Joseph

[@Johnny2Cellos]

She's got it when Crackerjack gives her his blanket, too!

[@micycle8778]

who made that thumbnail and why haven't they won a Nobel prize yet

[@flufftronable]

Right! it's great

[@sockratariansarah5561]

Ravioli v2 did, their comment is up her in the top comments

[@anthonytitone]

I think a super small detail that’s underrated is the sugar cube packaging that brings Bojack to Michigan says “family owned for over 100 years” and since we know everyone immediately related is dead the odds of it being a truly family owned business r slim it’s possible Joseph had a sibling who took over but I think it’s trying to hint at how companies try to appear more small business like to appeal to consumers

[@Johnny2Cellos]

Wow I never thought about that, really great insight!

[@martinfawkes595]

I was curious about that but the Sugarman sugar cube company is now a division of Fukusaka family of international conglomerates according to the sugar cube label.

[@emiliebury7546]

Could also be talking about the trauma since it's passed down 3 generations

[@mysincerestcondolences]

@@emiliebury7546 oh my god the sugar's the trauma

[@kingofrivia1248]

For me it was always the gut punch of realizing that beatrice is the girl on the sugarpackets yet died poor in a nursinghome

[@raviolithedesigner3736]

A pleasure working on the thumbnail, can’t wait to see the video!

[@pavement66]

It is a beautiful view of the heart of the script.

[@pikkusaukko]

It's hauntingly beautiful.

[@DalekBricks]

Love the thumbnail's style, great job man

[@WobblesandBean]

It's really really good! What programs did you use?

[@raviolithedesigner3736]

@@WobblesandBean Thank you! I use Adobe Illustrator.

[@jasonmalice]

This was a real thing. JFK's parents lobotomized his sister, for her emotional difficulties, turning her into a husk of a person, right around this post ww2 era.

[@liliesaregoodfortheliver2954]

Her father did it without consulting her mother, because he didn't want her to "embarrass" the family.

[@ladela7348]

@@liliesaregoodfortheliver2954 It didn't even become public knowledge until 1987, over twenty years after JFK and almost twenty years after RFK were assasinated

[@aff77141]

They did it because she was an 80's woman in a 50's house, and she was far from the only one

[@noviembre.rz1]

right, thats Joseph Kennedy and Joseph Sugarman

[@jakesevere9165]

everyone knows lobotomies were a real thing bud thanks for the explanation

[@pavement66]

A favorite. Probably the best storytelling in terms of style and technique of the series. And it's no surprise since Kate Purdy wrote it. Just brilliantly showing how trauma echoes, reverberates across generations. And still hilarious. Can't wait til Tama-rah.

[@pavement66]

Fantastic thumbnail, btw!

[@raviolithedesigner3736]

Brasil66 ❤️

[@chadkennedy7855]

The same Kate Purdy who wrote Downer Ending?

[@russsavage1611]

The metaphor of the house itself being rebuilt along with all the flashback overlays of Honey Sugarman's grief was absolute mastery and only really the top layer. The layers in Bojack continually amaze me over and over again. I always think this show is the type of work James Joyce would create if he were alive in our era.

[@leticiakay6422]

i never would have caught this, this show never fails to amaze me

[@xoTalim]

Something else worth noting about A Horse With No Name....Bojack's character on Horsin' Around was literally just named "The Horse". He didn't have a name on that show.

[@HavenXII]

People don’t realize how absolutely TRAUMATIZING bea’s childhood was… her brother died brutally in the war, her mom was mentally unstable and they almost died in a car crash, she was shamed by her dad for her weight, she was told she couldn’t have sweets but she could eat a sugary lemon, her dad told her to never cry, her mom almost killed her, her mom (who she was closest to) was LOBOTOMIZED causing an end to their special bond, she was bullied severely as a child, she caught Scarlett fever, her mom and dad fought, everything that she owned was burned to ashes, she watched her favorite object burn in a fire, and everyone ignores how terrible her childhood was…

[@Kay_DR]

I think it's not a matter of ignoring, but rather not using these things as "excuses" for how she was mother. But it was really horrible and no one deserved it.

[@Misty713]

Trauma isn't an excuse, Be went through HORRIBLE thing's, nobody will deny that. She still chose to treat her son horribly, turn to drinking and so on. Yes her trauma stopped her from terminating her pregnancy and so on, but rather then trying to set a better example then how she was raised...she chose to drown and take Bojack down with her. Speaking from personal experience's I can empathize that what Be went through was god awful, it simply isnt an excuse

[@redzeppelin6]

I always thought him destroying the house at the end links to his destructive actions. He tries to fix things, but burns it all down in the end.

[@itsukori609]

Or it could be his way of “taking a wrecking ball to his grief” in a way, he went through the anger and bargaining and such during the process of repairing the house which was also a metaphor for that process, and then felt like he was ready to move on and not have the reminder of not just that grief but the decades of generational grief and trauma, even if he wasnt actually completely out of the grieving process

[@oreokitty333]

I came from a family where the pain runs almost as deep as Bojack's, with a very similar result. As far as I know, we didn't have any lobotomies, but we did have a failed back-alley abortion, and a beloved mother dying in childbirth. The pain echos through history until my own abusive mother, who's currently dying, and in myself. I've made the choice to end the cycle here; I'm not having children. But watching the relationship with Bojack and Beatrice made me feel more seen and understood than any single piece of media I've ever seen. I have The Old Sugarman Place, Time's Arrow, and Free Churro practically memorized I've seen them so many times. They really helped me contextualize my relationship with my own mother. I knew about my family history, but seeing it play out so clearly in front of me helped click some things into place. I have a lot of mental health issues from what I went through, and I'll always be dealing with them, but I wish I could thank Bojack Horseman's writing team for what they did. I cried for ages, and I can genuinely say it helped me process some of my own grief. Brilliant line of episodes.

[@Liz-iu5lx]

I hope you break the circle of pain, good luck, you are strong

[@SmokesOnMe]

You mean you couldn't have any children if you wanted to 😭 Sorry that was my own family's cycle of abuse rearing its ugly head

[@sobgray]

You learned so much though. The world could use a kid who was raised by a parent who understands the larger picture.

[@brianhill2171]

Don’t give up hope man. Children are a beautiful thing. Remember that, through your trauma and grief, depression is not an immovable object or unconquerable obstacle. It’s really hard to deal with, but greener pastures exist for all of us if we go through life correctly and understand our psyche. Always keep trying and moving.

[@Bethiscrapwithnames]

Sorry to reply to this so late but I wanted to let you know that my family is also the product of failed abortions and its a lot to process and its all very broken. You're not alone and just because your family may be broken doesn't mean that you have to be. Idk it's big and scary and sad but life is a beautiful thing. I totally respect that you don't want children, the thought of bringing children into my world of dark worries me too, but I've decided to adopt when I have healed so I can still be a parent but can try and break the cycle. It's totally okay if you don't want the same. I just want you to know there's so much more to you than the trauma you were handed

[@lalakcj]

To me, the “Old Sugarman Place” represents both the physical location where the episode takes place, but also the abusive “place” that is common to the family members. That really is Bojack’s true family inheritance, at the end of the day. Thank you so much for doing these. They are fantastic breakdowns. Could you please do one for Time’s Arrow? There’s so much going on in the background of that one I’d love to see analyzed! Thanks!

[@JADraco124]

Also, just the fact that her name is Honey is also very clever. And I feel this way because the name ‘Honey’ just feels rather…impersonal, even patronizing at times when Joseph says it. Such as, “That’s just war, Honey.” It feels like an impersonal, cruel statement, and yet we also know that’s her actual name. I’m not sure if that makes any sense-but it just seems to reinforce the idea that Joseph does not genuinely care for his wife.

[@kelliezee]

Definitely makes sense. It almost acts as a symbolism for the realistic humanity she had compared to Joseph SugarMan. Her living, moving and grieving was real while Joseph almost felt like a cardboard cut out of what a man “should’ve” been at the time

[@beabea5985]

Where was it shown that Joseph didn't care for his wife? He was just unprepared to deal with her emotional turmoil, as he clearly stated. He helped the only way he knew how. I didn't see one singular sign that what he did (horrible as it was) he did out of malice.

[@plantlinqq1789]

@@beabea5985he literally talks about how he's supposed to keep his mistresses happy but isn't able to if honey kept acting like that. honey literally grieving the very tragic loss of her child. imo joseph is clearly supposed to be potrayed as a very unsympathetic character

[@stpvtrick5943]

@@beabea5985 are you really apologizing for Joseph Sugarman, yikes

[@arrianagreen6473]

@@beabea5985 Joseph portrays the type of selfish man who doesn’t know how to emotionally connect to his wife and child. He knows how to have fun with his family and have good moments but he doesn’t know how to deal with the emotional turmoil that comes with having a family and he doesn’t care enough to try or learn. He just told her “well, that’s how war is honey,” and moved on. He didn’t offer her comfort or even try to share the emotional burden, Honey only had a seven year old to give her emotional support. He literally gave her a lobotomy so she would shut up and so he didn’t have to deal with a woman’s grief.

[@sprytefox]

I never understood why they had this random episode about a horse named Hambone FakeNamington that looks like Ryan Gosling.

[@FrowningTable]

Yeah wasn't he on the bojack horseman show back in 2007?

[@crushingturtle4517]

I'm too Critical No no no, I swear I’ve seen him in the show back in the 90’s Horsing around.

[@mr.boombox5021]

This comment, a joke amidst the serious analysis, perfectly fits the show.

[@zuko5651]

Wasn’t he the horse who played secretariat?

[@T0xXx1k]

*you* are secretariat

[@MilkScrew]

In the episode exploring Beatrice's memory of her past as Bojack is taking her to a terrible nursing home, there's a scene which really shows just how awful Joseph Sugarman REALLY is. Beatrice had just been diagnosed with Scarlett-Fever and Joseph is yelling at Honey in the hallway outside Beatrice's room. He yells, "It's a mother's duty to keep her children alive, and you are CONTINUALLY failing!!" He's blaming HER for Crackerjack's death, even though he said it was "just war" previously. Also, he completely ignored Beatrice's complaints of how she didn't feel well, chalking it up to her being afraid of her bullies. If I said I felt sick as a child, my parents would at LEAST feel my forehead/take my temperature before making a decision on whether or not I was well enough to go to school. As soon as Joseph felt Bea's forehead he realized she had a fever, but it took her fainting to get him to even do that! I think the lobotomy ultimately kept Honey Sugarman "alive" because she without that part of her brain functioning, she could not understand the abuse that was being directed at her. If she had not been lobotomized, she would've more than likely committed suicide because of the blame her husband put on her along with the guilt she felt just by herself. Joseph Sugarman is the perfect example of how someone with toxic masculinity and willful ignorance can destroy everything they touch. It makes me sad for the generation of people in post-WW2 era America who were taught that this behavior was not only normal, but healthy, and if you were not someone with this type of mindset, YOU were the one who was wrong and needed "fixing".

[@nidohime6233]

Seeing how he treats her I wouldn't be surprise if he also takes advantage of her by calling it "housewife duties".

[@penneymoore7133]

It was tragic how inept he was in dealing with Honey's grief. No suprise -- men were not expected to express emotion at all and women were shamed for it. There was no real treatment for PTSD and grief at the time. You were either locked away, medicated to death, or in extreme cases lobotomized. The prevailing attitude was that women were these "emotional" creatures who could not act rationally under stress. Joseph could conveniently blame Honey for it all due to the fact that he had the power in the family and his decisions were law. So sad, because he had zero emotional intelligence. I understand that Joseph was the way he was due to his own upbringing and I bet he was smacked in the head by his own dad every time he expressed emotion. This show has always hit me in the gut because my own family has had its history of cyclic abuse that was swept under the rug for being "dirty laundry." The show has actually been therapeutic to many people. It is absolutely brilliant.

[@hkazu63]

I’ve said this on a few videos, but Joseph Sugarman is the true villain of the show and the root of EVERYTHING. He destroyed Beatrice in her childhood and early adulthood, fat shaming her, forcing her to adhere to antiquated gender roles, criticising everything about her, which she internalised and passed on to BoJack, and imposed his views so deeply that he stunted Beatrice’s very ability to live by using Honey and her “womanly emotions” as an example. BoJack’s life is ravaged by intergenerational trauma, and the very root of that is Joseph Sugarman. He’s a truly awful, hideous character and arguably more evil than any other character in the show.

[@potetpoet]

Bojack's grief is not parallel to Honey, only Eddie is Honey. They can't deal with their pain, it completely consumes them. And Bojack... is Joseph. Joseph and Bojack want easy solutions, they don't want to actually work with Eddie and Honey's pain, so they just try to make it go away in clumsy and destructive ways. Joseph eventually destroys Honey's mind, Bojack destroys the house him and Eddie worked on together and leaves Eddie. Come to think of it, another fun parallel between Bojack and Joseph is they both destroy Beatrice's baby. All the rage Beatrice felt towards her father was let out on Bojack, and that moment he lived up to her expectation. Fun, fun show.

[@radhikaparkhi1856]

completely agree with you on this one, although the episode’s main focus is Bojack’s grief, I think their intention was to connect Honey and Eddie. Bojack more so parallels with Joseph due to his relationship with Sarah Lynn, esp in that’s too much man. he literally does everything to ignore (whether consciously or subconsciously) her concerns/feelings until eventually he gives in and takes her to the observatory. sure it’s not as brutal as Honey’s lobotomy, but I think it’s clear that Bojack has similarities from both sides of Beatrice’s family

[@otakugemi8414]

I think it's more sad when you realize that the sugarman name will probably die with bojack because just like his grandmother he on some level cant feel emotions or just cant feel others emotions to actually be in a relationship and have a child, and even if he did adopt witch is something he wouldn't do, it still wouldn't go well for him as he'd just break the child as he was broken.

[@gracekim1998]

True

[@dydx2946]

I am afraid to have a child because I think might break them just like I am broken.

[@otakugemi8414]

@@dydx2946 sad truth is if you're not mentally stable enough to have a child you probably shouldn't be in a relationship as you might lack what it takes to give emotion back even if you really want to.

[@aweirdoandaphone4135]

@@dydx2946 I feel the same way man. But my parents keep on telling me that I need to focus on the present more than the future for now, since I’m still in high school, so here’s to hoping ig.

[@laurena7894]

@@otakugemi8414 having a kid and being in a relationship are two very different things.

[@chrisgonzalez3388]

Now all we need is top 10 underrated episodes of Bojack Horseman

[@trafficcontrol2420]

Chicken 4 Dayz!

[@MHBULLSFAN]

All of them...

[@shayshayshayshayshayshayshay]

Stop The Presses, It’s You, The Amelia Earhart Story, The Face Of Depression, Best Thing That Ever Happened, The Shot, After The Party, lovin that cali lifestyle!, Good Damage, The Dog Days Are Over.

[@hbluemole6941]

I know 76 underrated episodes

[@lolwutizit]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mGq2h6p9edN_q8k Your order, sir

[@laurocoman]

"They don't care about your feelings, they only want to see you perform!" Now we know where that came from.

[@sftrkrt07]

Can not wait. This is the most important episode of all bojack horseman. It sets up the story of every single episode. It explains why his mother is the way she is. Why bojack is the way he is. Its not just a episode of a single bad discussion or how bojack almost drowns. But supplied reason for all that. Plus eddy was pretty fun! "We got a saying in Michigan..." hahaha

[@hopper8514]

One of my favorite parts of this story is that Honey’s name is *Honey.* You can’t tell if Joseph is calling her by a pet name or her actual name so you can’t tell if he really cares.

[@alexiab2598]

Bojack tearing the house down could have been symbolic of repressing what happened, going into denial and just pretending it didn't exist. And by it I mean the role he played in her death

[@Smkpt42]

"I Will Always Think of You" is a really great song. Saved it as soon as I heard it. Literally thought it was a real song from the 50's.

[@chaoticneutral7976]

Also a small detail: this is the only time we see Beatrice have ice cream with her only getting two licks. Interestingly, her freezie pop resembles the dreamsicle Bojack imagined when he tried to write his memoir for himself (though that part is kind of reaching I admit).

[@luanminitti1177]

When Honey says, "love does things to a person, terrible things." I still think she's not just talking about Crackerjack, but her borderline abusive relationship with Joseph. I truly don't think she was lobotomized at will, and even though she asked to be fixed, I don't think having her brain poked with a fork was her ideal solution to her depression and hysteria :(

[@melhoneybee3]

she was lobotomized at will. she asked for it. she begged for it. at last, joseph sighed and agreed thinking that maybe it would help her.

[@kathrineici9811]

At the time she and joseph both would have seen it as a good solution-it was a huge craze because it seemed to make mentally ill people docile and that was deemed a cure

[@Taevarth]

@@kathrineici9811 Yea watching documentaries about the history of Lobotomy makes you realize how close science was to being truly evil, completely un-intentionally. All it took was a guy with an agenda wanting to get rich or whatever. And it's scary to also think how gullible many people can be when they have "evidence" against something they dont like (I.E Mental Illness). People would have rather Lobotomized their family member with issues because they didnt want to deal with it, or were unable to deal with it financially, and it was sold as an easy and cheap fix.

[@Gon-hx4df]

Considering after that she mentioned Crackerjack by name, I think she really was refering to him

[@kingofrivia1248]

I dont even think joseph is abusive. He is incredibly weong but you can see that he truly loves his wife and especially Beatrice, he is just not capable of caring in any way than what he did. He is afraid to be vulnerable etc. but he does care

[@quinintheclouds]

and THIS is why you're my favorite bojack-related channel

[@Johnny2Cellos]

Thank you Quin ☺️

[@skitddle3777]

i personally like the episode where he talks in his mother funeral, even though the whole episode is about bojack just talking.

[@rajnandiniranbhare6696]

It's "Free Churro". Amazing monologue it has.

[@Christopherjazzcat]

My favourite episode. Fantastic analysis. I do feel compelled to point out that the stages of grief are not as linear as they're often portrayed.

[@Johnny2Cellos]

Totally! But it’s a helpful roadmap.

[@chrisgonzalez3388]

I consider this episode and The View from Halfway Down to be some of the best episodes of TV

[@Johnny2Cellos]

My top 2 episodes!

[@penneymoore7133]

The entire series was brilliant.

[@Invisibleplqnetsmusic]

Joseph is a great example that toxic masculinity isn't always agro, violent, demonstrative actions. It can be the inability and unwillingness to learn empathy and sympathy....

[@mrx4022]

The Sugarman family really is cursed with pain and suffering; it caused Honey to lose half her mind from the grief she felt when Crackerjack died. It forced Beatrice to grow up with the mindset that emotional attachment can lead to sadness and pain. And that carried over to BoJack.

[@arrash4388]

The 'I will always think of you' duet between eddy and honey is also my favourite scene of the entire show. I love how fluid the story and animation is.

[@morosenberg5571]

Imagine living your life knowing you're only here because your grandfather was horrible

[@PriusRaj]

That's a lot of people 🙃 Mine was 30 when he married a 16 year old girl. This was his second wife. The first one committed "suicide". 🙃🙃🙃 He's dead now at least.

[@Hotpink51]

I always kinda get the feeling Bea never really shared that with anyone. She never let anyone that close. She might've mentioned it in passing but I don't think Bojack was really aware of how much his mom went through.

[@bryntendo]

My granddad was apparently a horribly abusive alcoholic, there have even been things alluded to that he was sexually abusive and physically violent, but I haven't probed into that with my family. I never knew that side of him, but looking back as an adult I can see how it would've been likely. I think a lot of people would have family history like that, especially if they're of a certain age where men like Joseph Sugarman were stock standard. It's upsetting to think about, but it's the truth, unfortunately

[@astridkjellberg]

hi, that's me.

[@MxDae]

Lol, I don't need to imagine it. I'm only here because my bio grandma abused and isolated my dad so much that he turned to sleeping around to "cope" with his depression and loneliness, and when he learned that my bio mom was pregnant he begged her to not abort me despite neither of them really being old enough or capable enough to become parents. And a few years and an adoption later... 🙃

[@hambone.fakenamington]

Yay! I’m so excited, this is my favorite episode of Bojack, as I feel like it really highlights the (my interpreted) theme of ‘Everybody has their shades of grey’ because it really goes out of its way to, not justify, but explain Beatrice’s harsh and emotionally abusive rearing of Baby Bojack. This show has so many deep insights into certain aspects of life that I think we kind of forget how much of the show is about how your really young and moldable years effect you and the people you go on to have an imprint on. I think a lot about Diane’s questioning of why did she have to go through things on her childhood that haunt her when they didn’t directly shape her career or creative fulfillment, how she wonders about the worth of her trauma when she can’t put in on paper. I think about Butterscotch Horseman’s attempt to put his own personal story (and his own history or trauma, we must assume) to paper and ending up with weird Anti-Semitic ramblings and nothing his own family finds worth reading. And then I think about Beatrice. And how every inch of her horrific upbringing ended up coming back to haunt not only her but her only child, and even her husband’s abandoned daughter. I don’t know. Something about how Diane realizing the fruit of that trauma isn’t always worth pursuing and holding onto, and something about how Bojack’s family tree is the perfect example of how trying to use the things that made you feel broken to build a foundation of success on isn’t the best choice. Love your vids, very excited for this one!!!

[@vanessagonzalez7862]

Well said Hambone Fakenamington

[@bingobingo7755]

I think bojack destroying the house is a parallel to the lobotomy in some way- he couldnt handle the pain it brought him so he just removes that part from his life hoping its go away But the memories linger

[@ClaireSamuelsVA]

15:06 I LOVED that they chose to include this sound of the truck backing up because it reminds me of the sounds of an operating room. Truly haunting...

[@uhermuh]

Thank you for still making content about this show! I binge-watched it for the first time during quarantine and immediately watched it 3 more times haha, it struck such a chord with me and I’m glad to see there are still people discussing and analyzing it!

[@leticiakay6422]

i did the same thing! i’m glad ppl are still talking abt it

[@EwYoureCringe]

“A Horse With No Name” is also about Heroin, which is what Sarah Lynn overdosed on

[@JohnHarrison-yq2zv]

The creators said it isn't about that, though it has been interpreted that way.

[@shiomicchi7247]

I think that the contrast between little Beatrice peacefully playing outside in 1945 is shown at the same time as Bojack having the lakehouse knocked down in the present is such a powerful piece of imagery. Beatrice's home is literally being torn down around her whilst she plays outside, seemingly unaware of her picture-perfect life and family literally crumbling down around her - yes there is a 70 year time gap but there's a reason these two scenes are shown simultaneously. With the juxtaposition of Beatrice serenely playing in the middle of literal destruction, I think this scene is portraying how she can't fully comprehend the severity of her situation (her family and home literally falling apart). Whilst she is traumatised by everything that has happened, she is still only 7, and I don't think she fully grasps the situation. All she knows is that things are bad. Her loving and peppy mother has changed and is gone forever, as is Crackerjack, someone she clearly idolised. Still, Beatrice chooses to go about her day as normal, even after that harrowing piece of "advice" from Honey. She either honestly believes that her life will return to normal, eventually, or in this moment is coping with her own grief and trauma through escapism through play, and by acting like things are normal. The sad truth is, things would never be the same for her after this particular summer when Honey was lobotomized, as she would become incapable of looking after Beatrice. With her mother out of the picture and her loving big brother dead (who I believe would have made a better role model for Beatrice than their father, had he survived), Joseph is the only person left to take care of Beatrice. As we know he is problematic already due to his upbringing and the way society was in the early 20th century, but he also became increasingly toxic throughout the following decades, lashing out and chastising her for trying to be her own person. Without Honey and Crackerjack to support her or at least balance things out in the family dynamic, Beatrice is completely left to her father's mercy. From this moment, on the day that Beatrice met her lobotomized mother and saw how grief stemming from love can destroy an individual, Beatrice's life as she knew it was over and the potential for a better future crumbled to nothing, as symbolised by the destruction of the lakehouse.

[@jakesevere9165]

Joseph is one of the coolest characters in the entire series. His calm, creepy demeanor, his voice, everything about him lets him steal whatever scene he's in.

[@ehna8558]

“Our actions have consequences, and sometimes those consequences outlive us all” is so profound

[@brawlornothin1008]

The thing I appreciate this show is how you can empathize and understand his trauma, it ultimately doesn’t excuse his toxic behavior or let him get away with it. It shows that ultimately it’s up to him to get help and take responsibility for his actions, and the consequences of him continually rejecting that concept. It’s a hard line to balance but it’s done so heartbreakingly beautifully. Thank you for the awesome video breakdowns!

[@SpacekidMuradiye]

Could you cover the episode where Diane is trying to write her book and finally states that "if she won't write it, it will mean that all of those years when she could've been happy instead of sad and depressed are for nothing."?

[@TheRealSparkplugTheFox]

Honey is hands down my favorite character in this show.

[@shayshayshayshayshayshayshay]

Thank jane krakowski for that

[@lizlazmccringe2043]

It sounds weird but I think Beatrice is my favorite character, and I the couple episodes that go through her past specifically are my favorite. They really traumatized me with her crying out as a child saying “not my baby!” and how that reflects with both BoJack, Hollyhock, and the doll they give Beatrice. It’d be neat if you could analyze those couple episodes !

[@freebornfloor1600]

I think the beauty of Bojack, and how I'm seeing so many commenters and this channel delving into layers and layers of deeper meaning, is no matter how many layers, puns, hidden meanings, or double entendres the writers intended, we can look and see other brilliant connections. Truly the best, deepest show I have ever watched ever. I have made 5 other friends Bojackers.

[@AntoinetteChanel]

Loved this breakdown. I didn’t realize how far-reaching Joseph Sugarman’s actions were, so this connected a lot of dots I hadn’t actively connected myself. Could you do a breakdown of Fish Out of Water?💕

[@Johnny2Cellos]

Fish Out of Water is probably the episode I’m MOST considering covering next :)

[@chadkennedy7855]

@@Johnny2Cellos Could you do a breakdown of The Telescope and Still Broken after that?

[@AntoinetteChanel]

@@Johnny2Cellos 😍 yesssssssssss

[@simonpetrikov3992]

True but what started it all was WWII

[@pinklikdblue]

"Our actions have consequences and sometimes those consequences outlive us all." Wow. That sure is some food for thought.

[@ThatMissQuin]

So happy to see more Bojack episode breakdowns from you.

[@Johnny2Cellos]

Thank you!

[@codythespacedude7845]

I honestly watch this episode and connect the butterfly effect of the endless cycle of abuse echoing through generations of the Horseman/Sugarman family and wonder how people are so quick to defend Joseph Sugarman as just “ a product of his time” yes, the practice of Lobotomy was an accepted thing back in that time, but he only did that because he didn’t want to attempt to actually reconcile with his wife , and help her, directly , through all her suffering, which is obviously in some way related to his relentlessly sexist mindset. Him “not understanding women” caused him to seek the most damaging solution possible , as opposed to actually being there for her, and that single action practically cursed the family for years and years to come, long after he was gone. His negligence at best, and unwillingness to show genuine love and support for his wife to the point of permanently damaging her mind at worst, effected the rest of everyone’s lives to come after that point. We don’t give Bojack a free pass for fucking up, whether it’s intentional or not, same with Beatrice. I’d argue Joseph Sugarman is the most truly evil character in the whole show. If it weren’t for him, none of this would’ve happened. While he had no control over Crackerjack’s death, he did have control over how he supported his family during this time, to which he just chose to completely avoid it.

[@p_ensemble18]

This is a masterpice of an episode. So glad you're doing it!

[@chadkennedy7855]

I ignore season 4.

[@sprytefox]

The first thing I met was a fly with a buzz ...

[@FrowningTable]

And a sky with no clouds

[@theredcoffeemaker]

The heat was hot and the ground was dry

[@Jim-so3zm]

This show is an absolute masterpiece.

[@lucasdolding6924]

This is an episode I've always loved and appreciated, but thanks to your breakdown I love it even more and can totally understand why it's your favourite. Looking forward to more BoJack content, shame there are so few analyses of this great show.

[@Johnny2Cellos]

Thank you! If you want more BoJack analysis would also recommend checking out Savage Books, Nerdwire, Shady Doorags and Schaffrillas just started a 6 part series on the show.

[@lucasdolding6924]

@@Johnny2Cellos Thank for the reply! I think I've seen Shady Doorags' videos and saw part 1 of Schaffrillas' series already, but thanks for the recommendation of the others as well.

[@Bloodanna]

I feel like the destruction of the house is also a brilliant metaphor for Bojack's self-destructive tendencies: he can actually fix things and make things better *if* he acknowledges he needs help and *asks for it*. But, ultimately he is going to make himself worse and tear down any progress while he presenting it as both the logical next step and someone else's fault. Even worse he uses it as a punishment both for perceived wrongdoings against him and for someone having the audacity to try and care about him.

[@pavement66]

The 1940's dialog rings so true in this episode and 'Time's Arrow'

[@soonsims]

To me Eddie was the most tragic story, I balled my eyes. I feel for him, I so feel for him :(

[@TTVArgusGuy]

Just got to this one on my first rewatch. I really liked the comparison of grief in this episode, and I can't believe I missed the parallel between Sarah Lynn's death and Lorraine's death. "She wanted to go back. But I wanted to see how _high_ we could go" Amazing episode

[@lauracee5081]

My personal favourite episode of the series as well. This heart-wrenching episode gave so much insight on to Beatrice’s past and why she was always so cold hearted to Bojack. It doesn’t justify her actions, yet it makes the viewer empathise with her and realise just how deep trauma and abuse ran in bojack’s upbringing and how it has lasting effects throughout generations. You should definitely break down “Time’s arrow”, also a terrific episode in the series, especially as it goes hand in hand with “The old sugarman place”

[@leticiakay6422]

i don’t think you can blame everything beatrice did to bojack on her childhood. while that’s definitely why she acted so distant to him, there were so many things she did that can’t go back to her past. she would lock him in his room without feeding him, told him he was worthless, tried to *drown him* , and when bojacks choir accompanist tried to touch him in 8th grade but didn’t all she had to say was “wow, i guess no one wants you.” ig i just don’t like how everyone lets her off the hook bc of her past. i loved this analysis though!! you catch so many things i would have never realized and they are always fun to watch. i hope you make more!!

[@gracekim1998]

True but we have a reason for her behaviour given your upbringing (environment and family) affects who you become as a person

[@greg.589]

Her past explains her but it DEFINITELY doesn't Excuse her.

[@pavement66]

The episode Time's Arrow adds more context. As Pickled Eggs mentioned, it doesn't excuse her actions, but helps explain where it can come from if trauma is not properly dealt with

[@carmena.gonzalezrios8372]

she tried to drown him? I don't remember that, but that's something Beatrice would do

[@pavement66]

@kristian rikardsen Maybe in another series. Are you maybe confusing Beatrice with Wanda?

[@PurpledaisyShasta]

I have been rewatching bojack and I am now watching this episode. I just noticed something that I think could be considered foreshadowing. When bojack first enters the house and looks at the family portrait there’s stain patches over it. One of the patches is on honeys head in the exact same spot as the stitches from her surgery

[@ricksanchez5841]

Thanks for still digging into the show

[@SaltpeterTaffy]

That little bit at 0:29 where you distort the second note of I Will Always Think Of You was a nice touch.

[@blahblahblahEMILY]

"i have half a mind" will never not break my heart

[@shooby9496]

This show is so much more thorough than I ever expected it to be.

[@WobblesandBean]

Thank you for your insight on this. You bring up several points I hadn't even thought of, and it's as brilliant as it is heartbreaking. As much as I love this episode, I will never watch it again. It's too hard. I think the biggest impact for me isn't there ending with Honey's fate, it's not knowing what happens to Eddie. The last we see of him, he's begging Bojack not to destroy the Sugarman house...and then, nothing. We never know if he ever coped with Lorraine's death. We never know if he stopped wanting to kill himself. We never see him again. And, to me, that's gut wrenching. Honey and Sarah Lynn are long gone, but Eddie is here, still grieving, still suffering. And as far as we know, that's where he still is.

[@Aidenkun64]

This is easily the best Bojack episode. It's the only episode to get me to cry.

[@bigpictureguys8415]

Always liked how in the view from halfway down crackerjack jumping into the oil (dying 1st) pulls Beatrice down with him as they are tied together.

[@TheMilkMan8008]

Watching Bojack again and finally got to this episode again. I noticed how similar Bojack and Honey are. 8 feel like he definitely takes after his grandmother. The way she can't deal with things, her humor, turning to alcohol and just her personality in general. Maybe its just me but I think it adds to the realism in the show just like the patterns. People really do take after their family members and aren't just each compleatly different.

[@YTThurious]

those words from honey.... 'well i have half a mind...' and she never finishes. Because she only has half now. Heart breaking

[@cartercena8053]

This episode literally traumatized me, the irony is not lost on me.

[@huntmine2343]

“Times arrow neither stands still nor reverses. It just keeps marching on.”

[@featheredcanine1897]

Loving these new thumbnails, they really catch your eye

[@canonogic]

This episode was truly truly painful. It's one of my favourites from the entire series, and one that always gets me to introspect.

[@lydrowl]

Sadly, even the overview of this brings me to my own "The Old Sugarman Place" moment. My grandmother was given electroshock treatment and was never the same. It was seen as the time as a good idea, and the long term effect I think still effects our family. I mourn the loss of my grandmother even more these days due to that because I suffer from my mental illness issues.

[@pietro822]

favorite episode for me without a doubt. Just the way the story was layed out, the use of parallels, contrast, colour and music is just astounding. I will always remeber this episdoe.

[@Heidegaff]

Here's a nice bit of foreshadowing the background artists put in the lake house: If you look at the wallpaper, it has horseshoes and acorns. Now, acorns are poisonous for horses. They can't eat them.

[@lycaptain]

8:48 “well, let’s explore that grief and death” *enthusiastic ad music plays*

[@gguggdyghvyvyc]

I love Eddie so much, his character and how he just broke down after being saved. This episode made me so sad.

[@Yenkaa]

This might be your best breakdown, View from Halfway Down will always be my favorite episode of the series, it was chilling. But this episode is right up there with it after watching this.

[@kelly7925-w7z]

Cool fact: in the episode Time’s Arrow, somewhere around at 20:06 we see Beatrice and Butterscotch Horseman talk about Henrietta getting pregnant, there is a portrait of Bojack, Beatrice and Butterscotch on the wall however it fades in and out and the slightly transparent image of the Sugarman family portrait.

[@arthurgoes1994]

This episode is still my favorite, there's so much interesting concepts in this ep: telling both stories in the same place, but in diferent timelines, bojack's grandma and the firefly parallels, the cycle of abuse, " time arrow only marches foward"... And of course it's filled with amazing quotes and a memorable song