Butt Kickin' 5.56 Bullets - ep3 - 65gr Sierra Game King and CFE 223

Butt Kickin' 5.56 Bullets - ep3 - 65gr Sierra Game King and CFE 223
Starting a new series on .223 Remington and 5.56x45mm bullets for hunting and self defense. This video covers the 65 grain Sierra Game King bullet with Hodgdon CFE 223 powder.

[@4ndyw45h3r3]

Your videos are great, super informative and entertaining. Even 7 years later I dont think there is more comprehensive 5.56 load work up any where else on the internet

[@caseyterrence1606]

I really want to that you for creating and sharing these videos. I find them very informative and helpful.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

No problem! Thanks for watching!

[@jeremyschwarz3718]

Same here! over and Over. i dont have a chronograph so I use his numbers for my ballistic calculator!

[@henrychristopher9131]

I WOULD HAVE WENT WITH THE 26.3 GRAINS AT 2.250 OAL.IT HAD THE TIGHTEST GROUP MINUS THE FLYER.BEST RELOADING CHANNEL ON KZbin

[@dontbetreadin4777]

Why are you still yelling 7 years LATER?!

[@blfsd3977]

I got a pretty good node with this bullet with 8208XBR and federal AR Match primers. 5 Shot groups; 0.813" with 21.8 gr, 0.784" with 22.2 gr, and .906" with 22.6 gr. Daniel Defense S2W 18" cold hammer forged chrome lined barrel 1:7 twist. Cases were mixed range pickup but they were annealed and neck expanded with a carbide expander mandrel to 0.001 under bullet diameter. No chrono (planning on buying for myself for Christmas). Thanks JRB for everything! Your series have taught me more than you could imagine.

[@josephfeinburg3915]

The 65 grain Sierra Game Kings are excellent for accuracy and excellent for deer. I reload with CCI BR primers and 24 grains of Varget. I can't post the pictures, but with no wind mine shoots 10 shots inside a dime at 100 yards.

[@workingr]

I use 26 grains of CFE223 with my 69, 77, and 80 grain bullets, with military brass. Never had a problem. It's a little dirty but the velocities are faster than any other powder out there. Varget can't even touch this stuff. It meters like a dream too. Last chrono on the 77's was 2800 FPS out of a 20" 1-8 barrel, and just over 3000 FPS out of a 26" 1-7 barrel. No signs of any pressure. Both have Wylde chambers. In my .308, I have gone as high as 45.6 grains of CFE223, and gotten 2900 FPS with 175gr Sierra TMK's and SMK's. This was out of a custom Remington 700, with an Obermeyer 5R barrel. Again, no pressure signs. After cleaning, the patches didn't show any copper. They were dirty, but no copper. I love this powder.

[@skankhunt4252]

I'm glad theres KZbin for beginner reloader like myselfe. Been working up successful handgun rounds. Starting on 223 pretty soon. Finding it to be more of a hobby than an way to save on ammo. Which is a plus with reloading. I've never shot my 10mm so much!!!

[@ewetho]

Hey Johnny, I love this format of actual load development beyond the initial ladder or whatever they are calling it and shooting a second and then lands workup.. awesome

[@johngiff2978]

Good for you for mentioning your powder funnel spill problem. The same thing will happen with the RCBS funnel if it isn't perfectly lined up to the .223 case. Great video Thanks!

[@gerardgoubel4169]

Oo

[@ordinanceconcernedamerican2357]

I love watching your verry informative vids. your full of information. I learn tons of tips from you.. I don't use the load data because your guns are different than mine but I gain confidence in experimental loads from the vast info you put in your videos. . I want to thank you for showing how to experiment with loads..

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

Thanks, brother! Comments like this really mean a lot to me. I enjoy sharing my hobby and it's pretty cool to me that people like watching.

[@JAM4MORE]

Love the detail in your videos. I would be happy with most of the groups at 100yds. Great videos

[@TheWVgoodguy22]

Excellent video Johnny, very thorough which I like. I bought these two exact components for reloading a hunting round for my bro's Bushmaster AR-15 with a 1:9 twist barrel. I was looking for the heaviest or most optimal bullet to pack some punch as well as cut through wind and shoot longer distances (if I had to) mostly for varmint or predator hunting as well as possibly for whitetail doe as well. I was told that ballistic tip bullets would not load right in a mag and chamber correctly so at the advice of a firearms outfitter at Cabela's who reloads for his AR he recommended the CFE223 for a good powder to start with and that I shouldn't go above 68 or 69 grains for the bullet to stabilize in the 1:9 twist AR barrel so I went with the 65 grain Sierra GKs. My youngest bro has loaded those particular bullets for his .270, 7mm Mag and my Dad's .243 and they have done well and shoot accurately and taken deer from a bolt action rifle. I also bought CCI small rifle primers and a small base die set, hopefully I have all I need and after watching this video and seeing that you also couldn't find a load for that bullet from any of the books as well, but came up with some averages based on bullets that are close. I will have to try the same loads you did and see how it goes. I will be safe and make sure it fits, chambers, ejects, and there are no over pressure signs it should work well for me. Thanks once again and Happy Shooting/Reloading.

[@iepatriot9426]

I use a .17cal funnel for my .223 case charging. it works great and seems to fit the case neck well with no powder spill. just an fyi

[@RockKnocker17]

Last winter I made a 223 load with 65SGK and CFE223. It shot awesome, in the winter, when I took the same load to the range this summer it was horrible. Half inch groups in winter, 2.5+ inch groups in the summer. My load was 27.3gr CFE/CCI450/LC brass with no pressure signs even in the summer when groups were terrible, and it was really slinging the 65grs, around 3150fps according to drops out to 400 yards. 16" Black Hole Weaponry barrel, I love the BHW barrels, accuracy can be great and velocities are always unbelievable but when they dont like a load they HATE the load. Same barrel with CFE and 53vmax shot groups larger than a foot.

[@stephenmurphy1638]

'Johnny's in the basement mixin' up the medicine' - Dylan

[@lfratta]

Great video 👍🏽 I really like IMR 8208 XBR for 308 and 223. Recently getting very good groups (0.75") with the cheap Berry's 55gr and (0.5") with Nosler 69gr Custom Competitions out of my AR with 18" DD S2W barrel. I got similar groups with the 65 Sierra. I use a dryer sheet to control static on my funnel, works great!

[@trumpie5399]

8208 and 77 MK is what ADF sniper load 23.8 with CCI 41 primers

[@robcrummel]

Truly appreciate the work! If you hate chasing brass, get yourself a Caldwell Brass Catcher.

[@reempire888]

Thanks for everything you do!

[@rodvasquez2747]

I use almost the same thing. Odin works 18"dmr 1/8 twist. Fed ar match primer, 26 grains varget with the 65grn gameking. That's a great deer round.

[@steverutherford9418]

Pile of shame Can't wait to start my own.

[@jacobdendinger4140]

thank you for doing all of the legwork I also shoot the same calibers and ammunition that you test. The number one take away from watching this video is that your rifle shoots much better without the suppressor on the muzzle. Overall throughout all of the different grains of powder and bullet weights your best grouping and Beth accuracy is found with no Muzzle suppressor

[@sschup821]

Just a reminder, you don’t necessarily need a micrometer or calipers. With practice you can use the threads per inch method. For example a 7/8-14 UNF would equal to .0714 inches per one revolution/turn of the die. 1inch divided by 14 equals .0714. I hope this helps.

[@antouab221]

Why haven't I found this channel earlier :) Lot's of good science and experimentation here, would love to see more testing done on 55gr Hornady bulk soft points with CFE-223 or H4895 (some say it's more stable in temperature extremes vs IMR). Liked and subscribed, keep up with this incredible work man, cheers.

[@butchhaight]

The 65g sierra game kings have been the most accurate bullet I have made up. I tried several different powders but the 65g and 335 powder proved best for me. Out of a 16" comp barrel I got really exceptional groupings. Best being .338" at 50 yds using old iron sights.

[@brandonomelian5185]

Excellent music for the fast forward parts and I love the thoroughness of your videos. I’m not a reloader yet but watching you is as relaxing as all get out. Just found your channel and thank you for putting out great video like this!

[@hebrewhooligan5462]

Everyone complains about lead ruining there lawn but where you shoot the jugs it seems like the grass is doing great!

[@rdchris6146]

Loved the video. Tells me not overly impressed with 223cfe with this bullet. I have wanted to try this powder but can’t find it. I will try the bullet anyway with some different powders that I have and see if results are different

[@garygriffiths6998]

Johnny, EXCELLENT videos! They've been very helpful, and I'm learning a lot about powders and bullets I haven't tried yet. A couple of points that might help you out in the future: CFE223 powder is very apt to stick in powder funnels due to static cling. If that's a problem, borrow a can of your wife's Static Guard and spray the livin' crap out of your funnel. After it dries, the problem pretty much completely goes away, and stays away for a long time. An observation on this video: I would have been very interested to see what your powder/bullet combo did right around the 26.3 grain level. The OAL data was interesting, but I would have liked to see what 26.1, 26.2, 26.4, and 26.5 grain charges would have done. Also, one factor in group size besides firing the first shot from a cold barrel is that if the first shot in the group is chambered manually, it doesn't chamber exactly the same way as it does when it is chambered after another round is fired. When I fire for groups, I load the 5 test rounds under two or three fouling rounds that I shoot for warm-up. Then I will fire four of the test group, drop the magazine and load the next 5 rounds, and fire the last of the first test group before switching to the next target in sequence. That way, all shots fired have been chambered identically.

[@billbee235]

I just picked up 200 of those 65gr Gamekings and had pretty good results with Varget. All my groups were right at about 1 MOA. I did shoot a 0.65 inch group at 100 yds with 26.4 gr of Varget but I want to verify that at the range again and make sure it wasn’t an accident

[@chriskristopherson7739]

I watch a lot of videos on youtube and yours are very good. Keep it up!!! Can you do a video on crimping using RCBS dies in 223 or 556. THANK YOU!!!

[@marklofaso9201]

BTW Loving all of your videos.

[@wileycps1]

A little baby powder dusted in the powder throw hopper helps kill the static and makes things slippery. Something a buddies grandfather showed me.

[@markvogeler7564]

This was a great video. I as well have done a ton of testing with the 65 gr game king in a 16" 1-7 AT AR15. I didnt set up my chrony because its a piece of junk but heres what I cam up with. First, My range is 111 yards so take that into consideration. Ive only tested Benchmark and Varget. When I started Varget testing I knew I was onto something. Top 3 groups were all at a coal of 2.260. LC13 brass that was neck turned only to clean about 80%. CCI 400 primers. 25.7 gr yielded a .250 c to c group for .236 moa 25.8 gr yielded a .375 c to c group for .377 moa 26.6gr yielded a .5 c to c group for .472 moa

[@michaelgarrow3239]

I still have a bunch of 64g rem-pp. loaded it years ago. Love the combination-deadly on Acxess deer n stuff.

[@butchhaight]

Of all the bullet weights I have worked up best recipes for the Sierra 65g have been the most accurate rounds for my rifle. Using 335 powder, I get 2950 fps and can get a 1/4” group at 50 yds.

[@wahru3357]

I gave up on military brass for shooting really tight groups.Try the same load data with commercial brass.I shoot for group size,choose the load,then chronograph.I do enjoy your vids.

[@dgunnut6550]

Great video, I have been trying this combo out and found decent accuracy, slightly less than 1 moa at 25 gr's. I have not chronied the load yet. I am Ok with a slightly less velocity as I think the bullet expands too much at the higher speed. I don't see my kids shooting a deer beyond 100 to 150 yards, so 2500 fps should be fine.

[@madbulgarian]

Going to load of some of these and Nosler Partitions over some Ramshot TAC next week.

[@donbenson5292]

I use those 65 gainers for many groundhogs and 1 deer. I use r15 or imr4320. I moly coat mine and that bullets in my 223 with shot the butt off a gnat at 100. I also use them in also in my 220 Swift with a 1 in 12 twist and it does the same. It is a toss up between r19 and r22. Great video.

[@armedfarm3429]

Hey, glad I'm not alone, my powder with the 65GK lately is 25gr of 4320, First it was IMR 4895. Then I tried 4320 shazam. under an inch @ 2700fps, & a few nice whitetails.

[@pawswet9476]

Awesome video! Very good methodology. The 2.240” OAL is very interesting. Vertical consistency is very good. Bullets and powder seem good. Maybe the barrel is controlling?

[@butchhaight]

I worked up all my recipes on a 2.26 OAL.(2.255-2.26). It has been a little bit of trial and error. Good recipe for 55g, (my weapon has a 16” barrel and is most accurate with a velocity of around 3050 fps) can’t say the same for the 62g, 69g is ok and 77g is good but requires a different “0”.

[@neilharris4462]

to help with static i have found some aerosol graphite that i spray on my funnels and weigh pans. it works great for the internals of my powder measure too. just be careful with some lighter weight and clear plastics as it may deform.

[@therealmccoy9948]

My rifle really likes 25 grains of cfe223 and 69 grain barnes match burners.

[@RanchoFiascoMike]

Love the videos. I watched one the other day using H335 and decided to try it as I had about a half pound. Worked great! Problem is now I can’t find it anywhere. Need to find a reliable source of powder that is not going to cost $50 a pound

[@josephfeinburg3915]

This is my WOA 18" complete upper free floating varmint barrel fluted 1 in 7" twist attached to a Colt M-4 with a Geissele SSA-E trigger. Using reloaded Sierra 69 grain Match King bullets it shoots 3/8" five shot groups at 100 yards. I also have a Bushnell 4.5-18x40mm scope with Custom Turret label accurate out to 900 yards. The rings are 1" high QD aluminum. The group in the picture was with 65 grain Sierra Game kings which I use for deer..

[@HypocriticYT]

barrels can make a huge difference in group size. My 18" heavy barrel shoots 1/2" with Hornady 55g HPBT. My 14.5" pencil barrels shoot 1.5"

[@nickparimuha81]

Would you revisit the butt kicking 223 series and add the speer 70gr.. I'm loading it now and struggling with it but the reviews on the bullet are great ! It seems like a very very strong .224 bullet for hunting

[@teddylebleu1392]

that 65 is my go to I really like ramshot tac for it they have load data for 223 and 556 with that bullet on their website really like the vids

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

Thanks, Teddy! I've got some TAC. I will have to give it a try.

[@Mav8887.]

Excellent video! Surprised sierra 63gr smp data doesn't show cfe223

[@fredrikottesen1480]

Hello Johhny, i really enjoy your videos, can you make more vids about 22-250 ?

[@mikeadams8293]

I would like to see hornady 75 gr HPBT with some H4895 powder?! I just loaded some but I just used one powder weight 21.2 gr. I think!? Great videos!!!

[@neilharris4462]

The lack of velocity jump with the shorter length may have something to do with the 5.56 chamber and the roomy throat/leade area that negates some of the pressure spikes once the bullet gets moving out of the case. Very interesting results though.

[@trumpie5399]

Try the 70gr TSX with TAC or CFE 223 or 8208 and CCI 41 and LC brass

[@robertvarner7392]

I've heard of and tried the use of a used dryer sheet to reduce the static from funnels, dippers, scale pans, and powder measure parts. Works for me. I don't think this leaves any contamination by its use, but correct me if I am wrong.

[@lesliewilliams7397]

O

[@Nwwoods]

Great video! Thanks 👍👍

[@rdsii64]

CFE is a slow powder. In a 20 inch barrel you can get that 65 grain bullet to 3000 FPS. With your 16 inch barrel close to 2900 is reasonable in your short 16 inch barrel. If you are not seeing pressure signs, CAREFULLY move up the 27 grain range.

[@roywadsworth2102]

the rifle is a savage 111 bolt action with 26 inch barrel 1n9 twist

[@chrism1190]

Great video as usual. Thanks!

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

Thanks for watching!

[@dross1492]

VV 135 is the powder

[@GODS_N0T_DEAD]

you can probably use very close load data for the Barnes TSX and hornady GMX. they are extremely similar bullets

[@JasonParker_114]

FYI rub your powder hopper down with dryer sheets to remove static cling of those types of powders. Not a 100% fix but def helps.

[@russellcowher3877]

It appears to me that your hand is moving around a lot on the grip, and I believe that may be affecting your horizontal dispersion, also as others have noted, that chronograph has a negative affect.

[@jimmorwood9715]

Good job I’ve been wanting to see if I’m loading or building a load for my 22-259

[@kg7caf480]

I know this is rather old test and you use a White Oak Barrel now, but see cpl problems, that chrono fastened on barrel will change bullet impacts and accuracy, same as a flash hider or silencer ect changes barrel harmonics, other it look like many times you have the chrono or the barrel on the bag, which also changes barrel harmonics a great deal, good video though love the Redding press.

[@vodekz2892]

Great job! 16 inch barrel .

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

+Vodek Z thanks!

[@jasonhacker7270]

my brother killed a pretty big buck with this bullet at 125 yards loaded with h4895. getting about 1.25 inch group at 2900 fps

[@jake501967]

It’s in the Sierra manual edition 5 printing 5. It’s not called a game king just SP but the product number matches. There isn’t data for CFE 223 in mine but I think mine was printed before CFE 223 came out

[@tomgrigsby2350]

I found the magic in 25 .5 grains of tac with that bullet.

[@conradangel8602]

We need to get you a 18-20 inch match barrel so you can showcase your hard work a little better, thx for your the education 👍🏾

[@bobbygreen2291]

CFE works good in all small calibers, where I ran in to the first problems, was 308

[@jandmevert]

69gr SMK- sugg. TAC & 2230 please. Great work, your videos are easy to watch & extremely entertaining!

[@hebrewhooligan5462]

what Vortex scope is that? It looks smaller then most?.?.? or is it just a really big ar15? lol like a an AR10 sized AR15?

[@jamescone9354]

I need some of these

[@robertvarner7392]

I would have thought for a Game bullet, it would have hung together better. I don't like picking bullet parts out of different meat parts in my game. Hmmm.

[@ThreeEyeGypsy30]

Great video, thanks for sharing. What is the part number of the projectile?

[@TheKentuckyWoodsman]

Would love to see a test with the Hornady DMX- 70 grain.

[@jerryhudnall1844]

Wilson Combat load .223 65gr game king out 16 in barrel 2730 fps out of 20" barrel 2890 fps lake city cases unknown powder and primers but said low flash and very clean burning

[@rikkrahs6607]

might be a dumb question but im just curious, would a free floated barrel have had a noticeable or beneficial difference? also see im a few years late to the party but this channel has seriously spiked my interest in reloading. i am baby stepping my way into it. Each paycheck i buy another peace of the puzzle. thank you for all of the videos they are extremely helpful and so interesting.

[@Eugene2ndW]

Does CFE live up to its name for reducing copper fouling or easing cleaning?

[@uralbob1]

C'mon Johnny, when are you gonna swallow the 350 Legend pill? I know you can't stand it! Love your videos man, just kidding. You've taught me a lot. Sincere thanks! .

[@slappopotamus1001]

350 legend is a bs cartridge

[@eddieschosman7029]

Hey Johnny, how will this loads be different in an 1:7 twist barrel? Awesome videos

[@dwayneputt1822]

Wrap a new dryer sheet around the powder measure, that should help with the static.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I keep a box of them right by the bench! It does indeed help a bit. Thanks for the tip.

[@66branch]

The Chrono can affect barrel harmonics and throw you groups.

[@Mark-iq6hi]

Why don't you wrap a drier sheet or two around your powder measurer? I do whenever I am reloading and it works great for keeping powder of this type from sticking to the side.

[@jude.25]

Johnny, I keep a dryer sheet in my powder measure and funnels. Virtually eliminates all static. Also, do you sort your brass by weight in any way, or do you find it doesn't make enough difference in groups?

[@haritchie3460]

Well reason posting . Wife had 762 x39 AK 49 Latter 243 youth rifle About 3 years ago she pick out Her own weapon she like Used her own money to buy it. Due to plinking and her first Learning 1000 rounds don't last for ever. Being a good wife She paid half on a reloaded. The only dime I have a say so about. Do hear about DPMS Panther Oracle she pick up for me.. Now this main reason to say THANKS Guys One of the videos a woman can enjoy. Let ya know she real See that small picture with the black rings there a throwing hatchet or axe in the wall. No clue in case see can see the white of there eyes . 😳

[@butchhaight]

I'll take that a little further. My AR has a basic lower, no mods. My upper is a BCM with a BCM bolt carrier group. I prepped all my brass diligently. (LC brass) I loaded 26.2g of 335 (kinda hot, the only sign of pressure was slightly flattened primers) the primers were the federal AR match primers. (I don't know what powder the factory loads were but weighed out at 27.6 to 28.2g) with an OAL of 2.26" (i load all my 5.56 at 2.26") I don't remember velocity exactly but it was around 2920.

[@brianhorne3136]

If you use a 17 caliber funnel with ball powder won’t spill around edges

[@nrainfidelforlife]

Are you inspecting your cases for powder with a flashlight Mr. Squib? Just playin'. Outstanding presentation. I've been wanting to try CFE 223. I forget what your twist rate is? Thanks.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

Brutal jab. The Colt is a 1:7.

[@tristancase8546]

sorry if i missed it in video im thinking of buying these bullets for my 1 in 7 twist i was wondering what barrel twist is your gun

[@ILOVETOSHOOT]

77 TMK would be great out of your white oak. I read online that guys were getting close to 2800 ft/s with earshot tac.

[@johnwhauserman]

I made some repointing dies for this bullet and it shoots 1 MOA AT 300 YARDS.

[@highland-oldgit]

I managed a 9mm ( 0.35 inch ) five shot group when testing them with Viht N135 last weekend, 23.8 grains of that seems to be spot on.

[@TexanUSMC8089]

I don't know why Hodgen says cfe223 is a good powder for a 223. It's too slow of a powder for 55-65gr bullets. You can't fit enough powder in the case to get anything close to max pressure. With a 65gr gameking and 26gr of powder you're only burning about 90% of the powder in a 20 inch barrel. That's just wasting 10% of the powder you load. It's not a bad powder for 308 and 150gr bullets.

[@Jewdew18]

I hope you know Elizabeth warren's campaign ad played before this video. I think you can have somewhat of a control as to who ads on your videos

[@jayyoung5627]

It's just her wasting money. Hopefully Johnny is getting something out of it. I think I remember seeing some Bernie ads on his videos before.

[@allpraisegoddessmonika2887]

Maybe he likes Elizabeth Warren? He can support anyone he wants

[@benjaminlittle7916]

try opera browser with ad block turned on, youtube with no ads it's great

[@outdoorswithroostercurrie6984]

At what distance were you shooting the water jugs? And do you plan on Deer hunting with these bullets?

[@sithyarael6807]

So I am just starting into reloading. What dies do you like the best. What I can get where I am are Lee and Hornady. I am starting off on handgun reloading and the Lee dies are four dies yet the Hornady are just two dies. What is the trigger you have in the AR? I just put an RRA 2 stage in mine which it about a 3.5lb trigger and haven't shot it enough yet to see what the first stage is because not much take up before the brake. And Yes a suppressor will lose velocity just because of how they are designed, It has been proven although I don't have one yet cause I missed the 41f shit yet would love one on my .45acp for home defense so I don't ring my ears if someone breaks in.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I like Lee pistol dies a lot. Check out the die video in my Beginner's Guide to Reloading series. I have a whole video devoted to dies. Check my channel playlists for the easiest way to navigate through them. The Colt AR I'm using has a stock trigger. I have CMC 3.5lbs triggers in my 300 blk guns and love them.

[@sithyarael6807]

Cool will add the playlist for guide to reloading to watch them. Mainly reloading handgun round right now although will move to 5.56x45 after I build my work bench. Well finish it. About 3/4ths the way done. Just got to do lower shelf and screw the top down with reinforcement in the corners for reloading press and vise the other end.

[@blackriflecoyote7821]

Hey guy good videos have you got any load worked up for a 60 grain V-Max in the white oak Armament barrels

[@garyjohns5817]

Johnny in .223/556 what in your experience is the best powder for it in the 50-62 grain bullet range

[@mrmidnight32]

Wonder how these stack up against 68gr. If you run out of series to do. You should do head to head comparisons. Test the best nodes of each for grouping and distance of all the different weight bullets you test. Show how they all stack up against each other again for 100 yard groupings, then at 100 to 600 or 1000 yards (caliber dependent) and see if some reign king. Maybe some shine over the goto’s.

[@johnverzwylet3346]

I know this is an old video, but what about 69gr Sierra match king with ar comp

[@armedfarm3429]

Thats the way the 65gr game Kings are found in the deer I shoot every time. Dead deer every time & the jacket against the hide on the other side with rib cage shots & about half the time the slug is found with the jacket, the other times the slug blows through the hide, but I find the jacket. I've used IMR 4895 @ 24.5gr's, I've used IMR 4320 @ 25grs, & CFE 223 @ 25.5 grs. My first batch of cfe was not right, I didn't like it, too fast a max load of only 23. 5grs. Everybody else was doing at least 25- 26, so I bought another bottle with a different lot# Bingo. I have also used 25grs of LVR. I like all 4 powders, but my favorite is LVR. I seated most of mine @ 2.240 IIRC.