Computer Space Arcade Game Restore Part #2 - Power Supply Rebuild

[@scucci]

"We're going to hook up this NES and see what's what..." 15 minutes later... "LOOK AT THIS FAN!!!!! THIS FAN!!!! HOLY CRAP, THIS FAN!!!!!!!!!" :P

[@DasMrOSi]

Hey there, if you're measuring resistance you'll first have to short the leads of your multi-meter. You'll notice that those leads will have an resistance too ;) Just subtract this value from the value you're measuring =)

[@Johnsarcade]

+Das Obi yeah, valid point. That resistor was so low that my Fluke couldn't compensate for itself.

[@DasMrOSi]

John's Arcade Game Reviews & Tech looking forward to see part 3 =)

[@AdmirialMav]

John I want your arcade! This is MY DREAM!

[@adampepper7557]

This restore looks like a very big project, especially that old TV. You are a brave man.

[@ht8520]

Thanks for allowing these machines to live and not end up in the scrapyard

[@benmmaddog]

Looks like one of the tubes isn't lit up . 24:33 tube in the lower right hand corner .

[@Richard31337]

Could be. Right where the Lightning struck ;)

[@killerreviewscom]

Have you tried putting power to the flux capacitor?

[@nightbirdds]

Holy crap! That was no small spark! That TV needs a complete rebuild. If you got that kind of reaction by flipping a switch, then you've got voltage going where it shouldn't be.

[@Johnsarcade]

+nightbirdds yeah, that was scary.

[@Johnsarcade]

+Richard Herzog Roger that! :)

[@MightySquirrel]

If the signal is composite... why not just run the wires from alligator clips to a composite tv?

[@Johnsarcade]

+MightySquirrel Yes, we might do this next. The problem I heard is sync, however.

[@TannerGremmert]

+John's Arcade Game Reviews & Tech you could also attempt to go to a lumber yard to find another TV. it could theoretically just be the TV

[@kristoferhanssonaspman3879]

+John's Arcade Game Reviews & Tech I usually take this approach to old B&W PCBs. Connect it to an old Commodore-monitor or something. I'd recommend you to try the PCB out next. If there's something wrong with it, order spare parts early on and work the monitor while you wait :) Looking forward to see more of this project, especially monitor fixes and recommendations for troubleshooting TTLs on the PCB (if that will turn out to be a problem). Anyway, great video, and an awesome piece of art! I only ever had the opportunity to see a red and a green cabinet, never the yellow one. Then again, I am from Sweden and Computer Space likely never got here in the first place.

[@nightbirdds]

Oh. Just thought of something. They used lead based solder back then. Might want to wear a mask going forward.

[@bryanp9504]

what's that blue pump tool you're using when you're removing parts from the board?

[@Johnsarcade]

+Bryan Parkerson it's called a solda pullt. A desoldering pump.

[@bryanp9504]

Thanks! Are you in TN by chance? I saw a Titans light. I'm from Nashville.

[@kazman500]

How do the breakers in your house handle all that load from the games?

[@Johnsarcade]

I have four 20 amp circuits that feed the Arcade.

[@lepterfirefall]

I wonder what his electric bill is like too.

[@EdwinNoorlander]

Hey, wy the sudden stop on 1:30:45?

[@Johnsarcade]

+Edwin Noorlander Ugh. I have no idea. SOB

[@EdwinNoorlander]

Did you pay the bill? ;-)

[@joshuasprucie8933]

+Edwin Noorlander I think It's still processing since I can't get 60fps to work. You might need to reupload if it doesn't work within a few more hours :(

[@joshuasprucie8933]

Yeah. I noticed some weird characters when editing my comment before. update: It is now in 720p but waiting for 60fps to finish processing

[@jeenkzk5919]

I guess he didn't pay the KZbin bill...

[@Frog_Puppet]

does the new chassis have the tubes? If it was working whrn you bought it from ebay you could swap the tubes probably.

[@Johnsarcade]

+Orange Peel Yes, I can do that. I suspect we don't have bad tubes but I suppose anything is possible.

[@Richard31337]

+John's Arcade Game Reviews & Tech Tubes do go bad. The fact they are lit up just means the heaters are on but does not mean they are working. Might be worth testing if that's possible or basically shotgunning them as you do with other stuff. Nice vid and good to see you working on this! :)

[@kamiboy]

Only half way through the video so I do not know if you did this, John. But why not test the game board by connecting it to a regular TV with a composite input? That way you can confirm that the TV is indeed broke if the board works since then you've tested the TV with two different video sources

[@TheTurnipKing]

Use the spare with the NES, see if that's good. If so, wire up the composite video signal of Computer Space to an RCA jack and and take it to the spare to test the boards. It MAY be you have to remove the dead TV from the cab foe repairs eventually, but no point 'til it's nessecary.

[@Johnsarcade]

+TheTurnipKing The spare TV would require RF as it has not been modded yet. So, I can't test the NES on it and in the same way.

[@TheTurnipKing]

Oh, that would make sense. Why would Syzygy hack it for composite if it supported it natively? Back when that thing was made, it was RF or nothing, I guess.

[@jodini5]

This is awesome John! Buddy of mine just picked up a blue one and we are going to be watching you intently! Your are only hope Obi-wan!

[@Johnsarcade]

Good luck to us all!

[@Darryl603]

You notice the seal or ring on the top of the cap signifies positive...

[@KingNast]

I think I saw some old paper capacitors in the TV.. Definitely replace those before doing anything else.

[@drifter848]

+KingNast not only that the tube on the side with the red wire is coming apart lol with it in that condition even turning on the tv is very unwise right now its fixable but keep shorting stuff out and youll ruin it for good lol

[@TVindustries5000]

kid niki is probably one of my fav NES games! the only NES game I've played that I've been able to beat lol

[@mattbluestone]

John, why no molex or quick release connects on those wires on the power supply? That would have saved time and effort having to desolder then solder those wires to the transformer. It would also save you headache down the road when you go to fix or replace the fan above the power supply.

[@Johnsarcade]

+Matt Bluestone Yeah, we can do that. Was just keeping it original. I thought of that too when it comes time to clean the fan. D'oh! :)

[@MarshallGTV]

The TV isn't on channel 3.. Just kidding:)

[@vintageceilingfans]

You can always post about the TV set over at videokarma.org it's a site for people who collect vintage TVs from the 40s - 80s, and I'm sure someone on that site has the Sams Photofact manual for that set and can help you troubleshoot.. You could even send the TV chassis to someone that could restore that set if need be.. The TV looks like it only has minor issues.. It defiantly has a good flyback and tube is very bright, so all the less common parts in it are good.. It may be something as simple as a bad tube, or some caps or resistors.. But defiantly check out videokarma.org about that TV chassis... That era TV is defiantly something commonly talked about over there..

[@loganarzuaga8316]

hey John whats the fan size (in mm screw hole to screw hole on the same side). I might be able to find a replacement.

[@Realmasterorder]

Hey Johny !About Time to get going with this Historical game !the Power supply is one of the foundation blocks for all games. You did a good work in starting by trying to determine if the monitor works,u got to get that out of the Way soon try it on another monitor or from another signal source. Btw I Loved Kid Nicky played it in the Arcades back at the time ! Keep up the good work and good luck.

[@lasvegasira]

John, it may not affect the circuit, but I think you put those diodes in backwards. The silver band is the negative side.

[@Johnsarcade]

+lasvegasira No, I put them in the right way. I made sure matching the schematic drawing that was on the old one and the band on the new one and using this cdn.instructables.com/F0A/XIG0/GYVDJUW1/F0AXIG0GYVDJUW1.MEDIUM.jpg

[@lasvegasira]

Oh man, that's right!! I would have blown that thing up... I hate when I forget basic stuff like that...

[@mheuzeroth]

I cant wait to see Part 3. Hope you can fix the issue with the monitor. When will you work on the Computer Space Arcade again?

[@jacktheaviator4938]

My bedroom TV was a 13 inch B&W that was made for Montgomery Ward in the early 80's. It served me well, I would love to find another of the same model so I could hook up my NES and relive playing games on a tiny B&W screen. I didn't get a color TV in my room until i was 13 and I mowed grass all summer for a pawnshop 19". But my Commodore 64 did have a color monitor. (My mom could talk my dad into spending money on the C-64, it was a "real computer" and could do "school/educational" tasks. I did type on it once in a blue moon, but honestly, the C-64 was used for games more often than anything else.)

[@TorutheRedFox]

+John's Arcade Game Reviews & Tech I have a question for you,what version of OS X was on your Mac?

[@ArgonautArcade]

Keep it up, I wanna see this thing working!!!!

[@paulcerveny9384]

Nice old school wiring repair job on to of the rf modulator.. looks like yellow masking tape.

[@matiassampieri9964]

John try conecting the board to a tv that works with conposite video and power it to see if it works

[@Johnsarcade]

I will. However, I heard it doesn't sync with newer tvs easily.

[@alansarcade8459]

Thanks for reading my Viewer Mail.....yes I am still looking for a Mr. Do! joystick.....still searching....Thanks John

[@justindarc]

I would be concerned that moving the NES from the LCD TV to the B&W TV may have caused the NES game to not start up. I just know from experience that the 72-pin connectors in front-loader NESes can be sensitive to bumps and moving the console around. I would try hooking up something more reliable to the B&W TV like a DVD player or something.

[@justindarc]

+Pow da Bro BA-DUM. TSS!

[@xboys_archive]

+Justin D'Arcangelo u speak English bro

[@billkalin422]

Would agree to try the bed on the eBay TV. Also, I think someone mentioned to make sure the tv is on the right channel. Sounds stupid but I remember that pic back in the original Atari and commodore days....wrong channel.

[@Johnsarcade]

+Bill Kalin The tuner has been bypassed. It's my understanding the tuner doesn't function on the modified TV in the Computer Space.

[@billkalin422]

+John's Arcade Game Reviews & Tech would like to see if nec works on the other TV. Stupid autocorrect put "bed" down earlier. It would at least verify that the nec works on that type of chassis, barring any other major mods. I know you need to see what those may be still.

[@TorutheRedFox]

That spark scared the s**t outta me! D:>

[@saenkoludmila]

Did you say SCREW outta here?

[@AlexPerrine]

Ludmila Saenko no, Toru said That Spark scared him.

[@chuck12-82]

John, you should have used the TPG for your video source, specifically the green channel. The NES composite signal may be too much input signal for that old tv due to colorburst. You should also check where the sync signal is on the tv as this will allow you to sync any signal and verify if it uses H or V sync.

[@joeyk959]

How did you get computer space I can't find it on ebay or anywhere I could only see it at funspot

[@bitrot42]

Cool video! Looking forward to seeing this thing come back to life. Replacing the 500 uF cap with a 560 is not a problem. The general rule when replacing power supply caps is that it is okay to use a somewhat larger value, but not a great idea to use a smaller value. Using a cap with higher voltage rating is okay as well. Do NOT use a lower voltage value, or Bad Things™ can happen. 0.18 Ohms is really too small to measure with a typical multimeter, for two reasons: - resistance between the probes and the resistor leads can be greater than the resistance of the resistor itself, and varies depending on pressure, position, etc. - Shorting the probes together often doesn't give 0.0. (You can compensate for this yourself, or if the meter has a 'relative' function, it will read 0 for shorted probes.)

[@MaximRecoil]

For the record, the Computer Space boardset doesn't output a composite video signal. Composite video is a color video signal, so named because it is a composite/combination of a luminance ("black and white") and chrominance (color information) signal. The Computer Space boardset outputs a luma video signal.

[@Johnsarcade]

Everything I've ever read has said it was a composite signal. electronics.howstuffworks.com/tv9.htm

[@MaximRecoil]

"Definition of: composite video An analog video color format that combines all three YUV video signals into one channel. The first video signal to include color, composite video transmits brightness/luma (Y) and colors/chroma (U and V) over one cable. Back to the 1950s Composite video was created when color was added to black & white TV in 1954. The color signal was multiplexed with the monochrome signal and transmitted in the same TV channel (see NTSC)." www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/40120/composite-video But maybe some sources, like the one you linked to, consider a black and white signal to be composite because it is a composite of luma and sync signals.

[@Johnsarcade]

I think it's more about the sync. NO!? "“In the early ’70s monitors were heinously expensive. The solution was to synthesize raw composite video and feed it in to a cheap off-the shelf television set.” - Retro Videogame Magazine, issue #1, page 40."

[@shmehfleh3115]

They're posting a load of crap here. Analog B&W TV signals like the one Computer Space puts out ARE composite in nature: Sync + luma. The only difference between "RF" video and composite video is that RF is modulated on a carrier frequency so that it can be broadcast. Think of it as the difference between listening to music coming directly from a record player and music played from a Mr. Microphone to a radio.

[@lmiddleman]

Is your NES still okay? That old TV chassis is full of vacuum tubes. The NES output may not be able to withstand a high DC bias.

[@CODMarioWarfare]

+cottonproductions You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how electricity works.

[@hingeslevers]

I'm here to learn. Can you explain what his fundamental misunderstanding was?

[@elamriti]

how long untill its 1080 P ?

[@Johnsarcade]

+scroeffie Rats. I dunno. When I published it, I assumed it was. Rats.

[@googleboughtmee]

+scroeffie Well, more than 3 hours is the answer so far... why does KZbin hate John?

[@elamriti]

??

[@pgj1997]

+googleboughtmee it's not his fault. This is just a lengthy video with lots of traffic.

[@googleboughtmee]

+pgj1997 Who said it was?

[@videokilledaradiosta]

woot bout time lol been waiting for this.

[@delsarcade]

Polybius exists. Yotsuya on BYOAC built one. It will be a Zapcon (yet again) this year in Mesa, AZ

[@omegarugal9283]

don´t you love the look of old electronics fitted with new parts?

[@merkurfan98]

Try your NES on your tv wich you got from ebay. to make sure is is working with GE television.

[@Johnsarcade]

The eBay TV is not modded for composite.

[@superpacman73]

+John's Arcade Game Reviews & Tech Swap out the vacuum tubes out of the ebay tv if you know for sure that tv works..

[@merkurfan98]

Sorry i missed that ;)

[@Shundi12]

+John's Arcade Game Reviews & Tech Could you hook up the game board to a modern tv via composite to see if it works?

[@Shundi12]

Ignore me, just got to the end of the video when you suggested the same thing :)

[@NaturalProgressGames]

That cabinet scares me... It looks like they made it out of some sort of epoxy and fiberglass... Only thing is that game came out at a time when Fiberglass was uncommon and Asbestos was all the rage. I can't help but wonder... Should be fine as long as none of it is damaged. Either way, that thing is awesome! Look at all those gigantic parts...

[@atariforever2002]

Asbestos fear is also "all the rage" He ain't gonna eat the damn thing.

[@NaturalProgressGames]

atariforever2002 The risk of asbestos is not ingestion.. but breathing it as the particles are literally glass that is lighter than air. Therefore you breathe it and once it's breathed into your lungs, It causes microscopic lacerations that in turn cause scar tissue to form and over the years your lung capacity is diminished to the point where you can no longer breathe enough to sustain your body and you eventually die from painful suffocation. If something made of asbestos is intact, there is no risk. Once that item is damaged it releases these particles and you're at risk of mesothelioma which is basically what i described earlier. Don't take my word for it though, I'm just a guy on the internet who never worked as a inspector and risk assessor to oversee safe removal of asbestos from schools, military installations, and buildings set for demo... Because as we all know, people on the internet don't have jobs or expertise on anything... i probably just read all of this on a facebook post. You Know how everyone's talking about asbestos these days!

[@LilyRoseTerraharuka]

+Natural Progression What's even scarier is that the monitor sparks and that spooked me. That and I was afraid that the cabinet will explode because it was old as a hill. Also, as long as the cabinet doesn't get damaged, he won't get hurt.

[@jamesw2560]

Now Mr. Do has started a Myth for the way this episode ends.

[@sockcutter]

Have you considered trying a monochrome signal?

[@robertfolsom1]

Hi John; your problems at the 1:00 mark are due to you measuring resistances in-circuit. The small testing voltages that your multimeter puts out will supply a slight charging effect to any capacitor downstream of your measuring points. When you remove the probes and re-measure the voltages, the capacitor will discharge across the resistor and into your meter, giving you false results, and make you tear your hair out... :)

[@Riz2336]

Guess you had to cut the vid off abruptly to go watch the super bowl, fuck yeah broncos. Good vid dude, it'll be cool when you can finally get that old school arcade game up and running.

[@alexp-vs4rh]

did you check which channel the NES was on both need to be the same, tv needs to be set to the #3 channel and the NES must be set to #3 channel on the side of the NES console cheers...

[@RWL2012]

that's for RF, the TV is tuner-bypassed for composite input and the NES is also outputting composite on the AV out

[@LudicInterface]

Buy some CRAIG DeoxIT and their pot lubricant! Couple cans of that stuff will help bigtime with these old electronics.

[@MystiqEevee]

I'm wondering if one of the reasons you cant see anything is the brightness is cranked way to high

[@MrRandomposter]

That television must have those some of those old waxpaper capacitors in it replace them plus the power cord then see what happens. Be safe John.

[@10100rsn]

Missing a nut... LOL. ;) If you find you're missing a nut, don't call the doctor right away. Just be sure to check your shoes first. ;P

[@elamriti]

i saw this one John gets a 1971 Yellow Nutting Computer Space Arcade game! 1st video game! Ed Fries interview!

[@TVindustries5000]

wow i never knew rca cables worked like that

[@JakeVegas-d4o]

finally ive been waiting for this video

[@pinmandan5164]

You got to be really careful de-soldering those wires off the power supply like that John ! The wire can flick the solder up into you eyes :( I found out the hard way LOL

[@franciscuncich8206]

Hey Buddy, it's Francis from Detroit: Two points I want to share. 1st: I sympathize about the bathroom issues you discussed during the AO Podcast last week - I have to watch my caffeine intake; otherwise, I am in a world of hurt - I once had to visit the crapper 8 times in the 1st 3 hours of work & it was HELL - I had to take two Imodium AD's. 2nd: I am super impressed of what you have accomplished in less than 10 years of arcade refurbishing. I mean, King of Kong was the genesis of you getting into the hobby & that came out in 2007. What is your professional/knowledge background regarding restoring arcade games? Are you self taught? I'm thinking about attending Brofest & I am a solid LOCK for Grinkfest fur sure. Be Well & keep fighting the fight. Be Well

[@ratman396]

John, I would attack that by removing the TV then put it aside....it does need major work. The flyback on that thing scares me.....get everything else working first, have Adam help if need be then attack that nightmare of a tv chassis

[@PHXGorilla]

My Dkjr has a white screen too. I''m thinking its my power supply as well.

[@musicman0150]

Hey John, these games are so cool. My high interest is knowing about the vintage games like "computer space" and some of the other older games that used black & white monitors. Did all those old games use actual television sets that were modified like this one? Some of the games that I'm curious about are as follows: Canyon Bomber, Tank, Basketball, Sprint, Destroyer, Video Pinball, Superbug, Night Driver, Anti Aircraft, Space Invaders (both the original and deluxe versions), Star Castle (had the rainbow overlay on the screen). Not sure if that was vector or raster image. Also Pong and I even seen a game similar to Pong called "playtime" which was located at Idora Park in Youngstown Ohio. The other black & white game I'm highly interested in is Asteroids in how they used a Vector Monitor rather than a raster monitor. Would a Raster Monitor work on Asteroids? There's probably more black & white games that I can not recall but the ones listed were and still are my favorites. If you can research these and explain in a video that would be great.

[@RWL2012]

I think there were black and white arcade monitors chronologically inbetween black and white modified TVs and colour arcade monitors. And no, raster monitors don't work on vector games.

[@AceGamingCentral]

About time John!!!

[@dvv45]

I would remove it from game. check what has been bypassed. it may still work. was the tv set to channel 3? or is that switch disconnected. best bet is to just rebuild it. the tube parts are out there? Glad you didn't get shocked!

[@TorutheRedFox]

I wonder why I see a lot of those "Mich" coin mechs in these early games. Huh.

[@elamriti]

part 2 wtf ? when did you upload part 1 ??

[@Johnsarcade]

Well, I am calling the first pick up video the part 1 of this series.

[@dodoubledragon]

Just throw the old TV out & put in a Dell flat panel monitor & be done with it. ;P

[@drewleclair1281]

Hey, John. Those old tube sets have voltage divider networks in them. A lot of them use big power resistors (sand bar or what are referred to as canned ohm) that are known to fail. I'm actually surprised that the set has high voltage and a raster. I would get a hold of the schematic and look at the power supply section. My guess is that there is a power resistor in the power supply which is common to both the video and audio amp that has gone open. Could be anything with old tube sets, however. .. You need to get a hold of the Sam's technical manual (www.samswebsite.com). That site can be a bit goofy, but first find the model and/or chassis number (hopefully inside the original 15" set) and search, then browse "General Electric" for your model/chassis. If no model/chassis number can be found on the original, look on the smaller eBay set and I'm betting that will get you close enough. BE CAREFUL. High voltage vacuum tube sets can be lethal. Just use caution, and you'll be fine. The big scary pop sound was most likely caused by a condition called "tin whiskers" either inside the power switch or in one of the other controls. It's a condition in which the metal that certain components were made from actually start to release fibers that migrate and can short out switch contacts and wafers inside various control pots. Nothing to be afraid of. Good luck, would be glad to help if needed. Really wanna see you conquer this one! Drew

[@flyguille]

I would use the old transistor, because the new one can be fake (with a tiny die, and by that make more heat), by that reason the new one measures higher (thin semiconductor = higher resistence), if the old one measure correctly in reverse (infinite) no reason to change it. .

[@10100rsn]

Measuring very low resistances on any voltmeter is likely to give you wrong results.

[@nubowner1]

As for getting a higher resistance reading than expected on the 5 Watt resistor, it's hard to get an accurate reading on such a low value resistor by simply using the resistance setting on a multimeter. I found an article on how to get more accurate readings: www.robotroom.com/Measuring-Low-Resistances.html

[@Scythe42]

"Welcome to the Polybius restoration series Part#1". Yeah, that's how a bad found-footage film featuring John would start.... Like that idea though. Maybe April's Fool? But you need a cabinet with some fake side art for it...

[@denzelmantoys-industriallt316]

nice

[@thepixelgaming3168]

where's 11 of pac man & where"s 4 of quantum

[@Johnsarcade]

Pac-man? We done? Quantum in the spring.

[@thepixelgaming3168]

John's Arcade Game Reviews & Tech where's the back door on pac man?

[@ChezArcade]

+gumball7839 on the back

[@Johnsarcade]

+gumball7839 Oops. I never did make one. lol

[@theorgandude]

wow, looking forward to watching this episod but wanted to tell you that my 8 year old son calls you "pucko-john". i'm not sure why, he likes your shows, he's swedish, perhaps that's why.

[@Johnsarcade]

+theorgandude I don't know what Pucko means. :)

[@yorgle]

That fan doesn't seem original...

[@Johnsarcade]

it is.

[@f.k.b.16]

At 14:00 You need to start saying Woo woo woo wooooooooo! Your voice sounds so much like another youtuber I really enjoy! No offense to either of you!

[@ninjamaster3453]

john check out 'obsolete geek' and 8bit guy. they're going back to pick an old TV repair business. they already did one video yesterday. maybe something can fit your needs.

[@charliebrowncbiii]

is it only me or did the video end during viewer mail????

[@hannonm]

Need the RF adapter.........

[@RWL2012]

for what...? the TV is tuner-bypassed / composite modded...

[@andywood2012]

can't you just do a mini upload with just the bit missing?

[@LansaDiag]

John, i highly recommend you make contact with +drh4683 He's a guru with old vintage televisions and will surely have a schematic for you. If not, he'll have a very good idea of how to troubleshoot it.

[@uhfnutbar1]

yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah :)

[@patmlem]

John, love your videos! I waited a long time to see this video. I hope your next video for computer space comes out sooner than this one. Your videos gave me the confidence to start collecting and fixing arcades. I only have 3 so far. Rygar, TimePilot1984 and a mame cabinet. Keep up the great work! Here's a video of my small collection. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rJSTYXRrbZ2Kp6c

[@thesmf1210]

and cut....

[@Mustakari]

Why the constant yelling?

[@Johnsarcade]

+Mustakari WHAT?

[@goahead2402]

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