JOKER: FOLIE À DEUX Movie Review (NO Spoilers!) | Joaquin Phoenix | Lady Gaga

[@joecamps1119]

I can’t say I loved it but I was never bored and it’s impeccably made imo. There’s a choice in the third act where Philip’s chooses to subvert expectations in a way that made Lady Gaga’s character less impactful imo but “aggressive pivot” is a fantastic description. They tried something for sure.

[@blackforest825]

Christie's comparison with Dancer in the Dark, which is an absolute masterpiece, just proves to me yet again that these two critics are the only film critics the internet really needs. Love ya

[@BreakfastAllDay]

So sweet, thanks for being here!

[@Missjunebugfreak]

Dancer In The Dark is a phenomenal film. More people should watch that instead of this boring film.

[@jmully9525]

Fish jelly are excellent movie reviewers. Funny, honest, in depth. Nick has encyclopedic knowledge of film.

[@BreakfastAllDay]

@@jmully9525 We're fans of theirs too! They're friends of ours.

[@professorderoteiro]

The Brazilian critic Pablo Villaça said he became increasingly sad and desolate while watching the movie, feeling more depressed with each passing minute. “It was a film that drained my life source.”

[@markjames8603]

That's too funny😂

[@JohnnyNada]

The ending of the movie had me depressed and exhausted

[@markjames8603]

@JohnnyNada movies like that are manipulative and I would resent paying money for that experience

[@stephennootens916]

If you don't want to pay for it wait four months and it will be streaming.

[@sudevsen]

It Jokerfied him.

[@RH1812]

I actually enjoyed it. I’m happy a group made a movie that didn’t repeat the first one. A bit of cutting here and there would have made it tighter, but it’s doing its own thing and I was on board.

[@UrbanDecayLova247]

Same!! I’m a BIG fan of Scorcesse’s King of Comedy so never got the hype for the first one - I didn’t dislike it, but it’s certainly not the masterpiece some have made it out to be. That said, I enjoyed this one - it was different and I was never bored.

[@alexandrosalexandropoulos4836]

🙏

[@HonkHonkler]

No

[@MarcosIsABaritone]

" ... Sure... Yes. If these are the choices..."

[@sweeney60]

This could have worked if this was an original score. If they were original you could match them exactly to the scenes and emotions of what they are trying to day say here. They should have hired Lady Gaga to write original songs.

[@blackforest825]

I'm shocked that they didn't! Especially given the fact that she just won an Oscar for best original score. How dumb can you be? And her as well, releasing a bunch of cover tracks that nobody cares for as a companion piece. But it sounds like this still wouldn't solve the movie's problems.

[@Missjunebugfreak]

It makes no sense to hire Lady Gaga to be in a musical and not have her write any of the songs. It should've been original songs.

[@sweeney60]

@@blackforest825 no but it would have made a little more sense. You can forgive a bad musical if the songs at least work.

[@nickyb3800]

​@@blackforest825 Not like she had much say in this. She's a supporting actor, not main, and was paid as such.

[@theitaIianstallion]

I dont understand how y'all can basically say if you reeallly liked Joker, then you might like this & how it continues on & reiterates storylines from the 1st. Its derived from Batman lore so, no casual person who does not like Batman, would see these in the first place?? If you both weren't reviewers, why would you see this? As fans? Or curiosity? Yes, it could be an original movie about a guy turned crazy clown, but it was so popular bc ppl didn't expect it to be BCUZ it was a so-called "comic book movie". Love yall! 🤡🍿

[@MasonGrant0704]

I don't get the level of hate this movie is getting compared to most blockbuster movies. I'll take Joker 2 over the MCU or Barbie trash any day.

[@bev9708]

Firstly, BRAVO and THANK YOU to you both for your pronunciation, you are among the very very rare reviewers who bothered to verify how to say "deux", which only takes about 5seconds on google after all!! Totally totally agree with what you did like about it, and for me there's really a lot to love about this movie, especially Joaquin Phoenix I found!! HOWEVER!!! ... maybe I would have liked it more if I had known it was a musical, but Todd PhiIlips had insisted that it wasn't, but rather a film with a "some" musical numbers... which sounded just awesome to me!! I admit I really loved it the first time they sang, the second time only 5 minutes later I was surprised but ok no problem, the third time only 5 minutes later I slumped a bit in my chair, the 4th only 5 minutes after that, I literally groaned out loud!!🤦‍♀ That annoyance continued with almost every song... 4 songs throughout the entire film would have been perfect but this was too much!! Plus they totally wasted, but WASTED Lady Gaga... apart from singing, she did nothing, nothing at all!!! And Harvey Dent was beyond awful!!! Little SPOILER!! And just at the point when I thought Awesome! something is finally going to happen in this movie and we are going to have the Joker wreak havoc on Gotham and becoming one of Batman's greatest enemies... nada rien niente!!! What a disappointment!!🤦‍♀🤷‍♀ Maybe I'll like it more the next time I go see it because I won't be expecting the comic-book Joker that quite obviouslyTodd deliberately did not give us!! Don't make us choose between this and Megalopolis though, Christie... they are both experiences and both gorgeously made by artists trying to create their own unique vision... part of the reason why we love cinema!!!

[@BreakfastAllDay]

Merci beaucoup, Bev!

[@jasonsmith530]

I love singing show tunes in my head when bored in jury duty

[@AhBeeDoi]

Will the jury foreman sing the verdict?

[@americanpancakelive]

Let's go ahead and say it too. If a great actor makes you forget who is doing the acting than Lady Gaga always fails, not only is she a subpar actor on her face (??), she subtle over-acts always, SHE doesn't even act well as a performance artist on stage but she is so wildly talented as a singer and songwriter that you forgive her but on the big screen you see her all to well 'trying to act' but never really succeeding.

[@messedupguy9648]

Couldn't disagree more. She was very in tune with her acting here and actually gave a mesmerizing performance. The trouble a lot of people have is that her character is not the comic version of Harley Quinn which they have been expecting. But it was clarified early on that her version is a composite character and it's tiresome to hear people give a msisguided complaint that she's not good when that's a problem with the material she had. She did the best with it.

[@martymascarin486]

Heath Ledger cultivated the delightfully diabolical with a deadly sinister streak in the Joker and his twisted connection to Batman: "You complete me.: In "Joker," the filmmakers were dead serious (pardon the pun) in building the character, we didn't see the cutting insane dare we say it---murderously mischievous---mindset of the character. This sounds TERRIBLE. How can it be???

[@LivinNexus]

This film is another great excuse to recommend the Fx show: LEGION. About mental health, features dance/musical segments regularly while not being a full musical AND it takes place within & features characters from the X-Men universe (standalone). Only three seasons.

[@Locusto199]

Especially if you like Dan Stevens/Aubrey Plaza (love both), the show is a must watch. Great/bizarre with an amazing cast. When they sing ‘Peace, Love and Understanding’ 👏.

[@petergrossi6605]

I agree with the bad reviews. I thought the movie was disjointed and it didn’t jell well. Gaga and Joaquin are great, she was underutilized. I didn’t hate it. I loved the production, set, and costume design. I gave a “barely up” thumbs up only for the things I mentioned above. 2.5 stars out of 4. The movie was unnecessary and it shouldn’t have been made.

[@bluescat59]

I kept checking my watch. Never a good sign

[@BreakfastAllDay]

Same here!

[@justinriley]

I've never seen a sequel that undermined its own predecessor as much as this one did. Did not enjoy it at all.

[@miyamarksman2335]

To me i like the chemistry of lady gaga and Joaquin Phoenix but in other project in the future maybe remake of past lives

[@sebastianalegria3401]

Despite the fact I didn't like Joker 2, Phoenix & Gaga did it very well, but it's not their fault if the movie didn't succeed like the first movie getting to know making a sequel was a wrong idea from a beginning especially, for Todd Phillips (the film director), who was forced to make this sequel nobody wanted.

[@readysetmoses]

Great review yall, I will wait for streaming for this one

[@robertcongdon6296]

I want to see this film about as much as I want to walk over hot coals in my bare feet.

[@WriterusAeternus]

I just came from Mark Kermode’s review. Really surprised by his take. So far the criticisms from the critics I follow are all over the place. 😂

[@BreakfastAllDay]

We’ll have to check that out. His Megalopolis review was hilarious.

[@amugsgame9936]

Kermode rarely comes across an Oscar bait Mainstream Hollywood movie he doesn't like!

[@stevethomas74]

He is a national treasure and my favourite film critic! I very rarely disagree with his reviews and this one was no exception 🙂

[@timothyw98]

Just listen to his sex and city 2 review, pirates and the Caribbean movie reviews. Not forgetting his classic Da Vinci Code review. He sounds hilariously pained in those.

[@stevethomas74]

@@timothyw98 S&TC2 and his POTC reviews are some of the best rants PERIOD! And his first 3 Transformer reviews!

[@MichaelMoorePDX]

It sounds a bit like Phillips is channeling Sid & Nancy too.

[@ChubbyChecker182]

Joker 2 should have been a mix of Goodfellas (the rise of Joker and his gang) and Cape Fear (Joker going full on crazy like Max Caddy) keeping up the Scorcese homage

[@megamoviez]

So not be an original movie and just be knock offs of what we’ve seen before like the first Joker

[@johnpjones182]

So, is it an even more depressing musical than "Pennies from Heaven"?

[@JohnnyNada]

As someone struggling with my mental health/ Bipolar disorder this week especially this movie really kicked my ass lol. Dismal depressing

[@stephennootens916]

I was going to take my aunt to see it but after she saw the review from the critic she trusted she said we would wait until it is streaming on MAX to watch it. And given how the reviews have been add in the fact I was not all that interested to seeing it and I saw my one bad movie (thank Mr. Coppola) I am fine with waiting the four months.

[@martymascarin486]

After finally seeing both Megalopolis and Joker, I agree with Christy. Out of the two, Megalopolis has slightly more redeeming entertainment value. There are some actual storylines in Megalopolis, albeit fragmented, scattered, under-developed but something of consequence actually arises by movie's end---dubiously. Whereas the musical numbers in Joker really don't reveal much about how Freck views himself or how his relationship with Lady Gaga is supposedly elevating his spirit. I confess that the business in Megalopolis with Jon Voight and his bow and arrows and Aubrey Plaza and Shia LaBoeuf had me chortling, just enough so that I was finally affected by the goings-on. That bit of business salvaged the movie for me, almost. lol. But a lot of money has been spent on achieving so little effect in both cases.

[@BobSullivanAKABuffy]

If you post a review and I haven't seen something yet, I usually zoom to the end just to hear the numbers. I think your low numbers (in addition to everyone else's low opinions) had me go in with such low expectations that I actually really enjoyed this. Can't wait for the spoiler review!

[@BreakfastAllDay]

Glad you had a better time than we did, Bob!

[@ChubbyChecker182]

The Osxars for the 1st movie should be returned

[@dodgelandesman]

Just saw it. Thought it was bold, a subtle slap in the face to the general one note action or super hero movies that these days dominate theater screens. As someone who hates super hero movies, i loved this film. Funny, substantive, character driven

[@antony_post]

It was Chekov’s TV Movie, how do they mention it so many times and we never get to see it Agree with a lot of this and I loved the first film. It seems odd to have a spent an entire origin movie on Joker and he doesn’t really get to be Joker in this movie. One of Hollywood’s most nihilistic offerings. But get Laurence Sher as the DP for other things (maybe Batman Part II if Fraser is busy)

[@JohnHermann-b5t]

If the first movie was Taxi Driver/King Of Comedy, is this New York New York?

[@thecriticandtheuncle5784]

Probably

[@Philbert-s2c]

Wouldn't it be great if these films weren't just rehashes of better Martin Scorsese films?

[@TrevorV.]

I think the aim was either New York, New York or Dancer in the Dark. But it sounds like neither was achieved here.

[@shahmeerhashmat6897]

Best reviews on KZbin. Super well spoken and intelligent people

[@BreakfastAllDay]

So sweet, thank you very much for the kind words!

[@lonwolf8245]

I wanted to like this Film and I was loving the kitchy Musical Numbers, but it went too far and too long and the end not satisfying at all. (Musicals usually have happy endings) A shame because there is a good film in there somewhere. I felt same way about THE SUBSTANCE.

[@Mr3Submarine]

This is what happens when a film studio gets greedy for a sequel, because the first film did so spectacularly well at the box office (in the case of the first Joker, over 1 billion dollars worldwide). Todd Phillips never wanted to make a Joker sequel, he wanted the first film to be left alone, but it seems WB twisted his arm to do Joker 2. The end result being that Phillips went into self-sabotage mode and made a Joker sequel so bad that nobody would like it, so WB would never pressure him to make a third Joker film. I could be totally wrong of course, but that’s how the situation with Joker 2 comes off to me. The lesson to be learned here, film studio execs, is this: not every film that does great at the box office needs a sequel. The first Joker movie was meant to be a standalone, “one and done” movie, and it should’ve remained as such. Joker 2 was unnecessary.

[@ssssssstssssssss]

Anette was a solid musical that turned into a courtroom drama toward the end so that can work. Too bad this didn't.

[@tonyg76]

Mixed opinions on this. Phoenix gave another great performance and the storyline had some interesting points. On the downside, it was pretty depressing too. As far as above the line Oscars go, I was disappointed with Lady Gaga and thought she was mainly a singer in this movie and should not be nominated. I did think Phoenix deserves another nomination for this.

[@Thomas15]

I thought the second half of the film was more enjoyable and successful than the first, which I was mostly bored by. I liked the courtroom approach to examining the consequences the first film, which I think is the right approach for a sequel to Joker, although it could have been executed a lot better. I didn’t mind the musical aspects which played into the reality versus fantasy theme, and I appreciated what they were doing (or trying to do) with the Arthur Fleck character and Joker persona. The film wasn’t great but I don’t think it’s the disaster than many are saying it is. 6/10 (I would choose Joker 2 - or any other film - over Megalopolis every time!)

[@johnpaulgonzaga5997]

I totally agree with you. This is not Joker for me. He's not even funny even in the 1st movie. Joker may be sadistic but his lines especially with batman are brilliant, witty, and funny. Mark Hamill, Heath Ledger, Jack really got the guy.

[@ghostwolf1435]

The Wife and I were beyond disappointed with Joker 2 The Courtroom stuff dragged on The Musical Sequences put the Brakes on with whatever minor plot was happening And that ending was a slap in the face and pulls the rug from everything in the first film This film was ultimately pointless I really disliked this film 🎥

[@kyleb8655]

Biggest disappointment of the year. I was so frustrated watching this. What the hell happened?

[@indauroleal7953]

Basically the Jokers criminal career is over in the beginning of this movie, so why should he exist in the same universe as Batman?

[@mrdoctoreleven9731]

Alonso's face when being asked to choose between Joker 2 and Megalopolis: 👁👄👁

[@rhealg123]

I know that this would never happen but I think that casting Martin Scorsese as the judge would be amazing. They do have a guy who looks like him tho

[@JordanStrong-h4j]

I know a lot of people loved the first one…but I personally hated the first film…but was intrigued at the idea of a musical in a mental institution…and Lady Gaga’s casting as Harley Quinn. Would have loved to see her as Harley in a main-DC movie, as I liked the idea of her playing the character more than Margot.

[@aishaalamoudi599]

I watched it, thought it was OK

[@TrevorV.]

“Smoking is not a personality” 😂

[@mrdoctoreleven9731]

This movie is the best advertisement for Marlboro I've ever seen 🚬

[@jeanpepin6497]

I think I'll skip joker and megalopolis.

[@crithon]

Hangover 3.... not surprised. Not surprised at all.

[@craigbarr2003]

I have a triple feature Saturday of MONSTER SUMMER, THE OUTRUN, and WE LIVE IN TIME

[@ryanmitchell6937]

I can already tell by the looks on these two faces that this isn't gonna be a glowing review🤣

[@kaleyrose47]

Loved your review. Didn’t love the first JOKER and not seeing the sequel. Curious: THE WILD ROBOT will have made around $70 million in its first week in theaters on a $78 million budget. I’ve wanted to see it multiple times, but I notice people aren’t selling out theaters to see it. Do you think word of mouth will help gain its numbers? I really want it to do well and possibly beat Disney for the “Best Animated Feature” Oscar.

[@rossdilworth3412]

Is folie a deux...madness for two? Where two people share the same delusion? I think ill just go speak no evil again.

[@danielcastillo4537]

Subverting expectations is not a valid argument for bad filmmaking.

[@adamJKpunk]

I would rather have seen the in universe TV Movie they kept teasing. The movie itself is just a boring mess.

[@BreakfastAllDay]

Yes! We were curious about that too.

[@ranestorypictures1738]

Rather hear these songs at the dentist while getting a root canal than see this.

[@MattB0610]

I didn’t like the first movie, and I was looking forward to this because of the musical element and the inspired Lady Gaga casting, but oof this was awful.

[@axebeard6085]

First I need to preface my comments: I have lived a life very similar to Arthur's (minus the murdering). I suffered childhood abuse. I experienced severe trauma in the Army leading to PTSD. My PTSD and Bipolar depression were misdiagnosed for 30 and 28 years respectively. Due to the misdiagnoses, I was being fed MULTIPLE antidepressants which ACTIVELY made my bipolar depression worse. For 24 years, I was living at or below 100% the Federal Poverty Level. I spent ten years as an adult living with my ailing father who was one of my childhood abusers. I experienced folie à deux for several months. (Unlike Arthur, mine was the folie imposée subtype.) I have been an involuntary celibate due to mental illness for 27 years. In the 2000's, I temporarily lost public mental health care because of budget cuts. I see how people avoid me like I have the plague when my bipolar mania kicks in and I start talking too fast or saying too many personal things. I can tell you from experience that Joker and Joker: folie à deux are amazing and realistic depictions of what it feels like to suffer extreme mental illness. Arthur's experiences in the sequel are absolutely accurate to what I experienced with folie à deux. There was the exhilaration of finally finding someone who gets you, only for that to turn into manipulation and lies and excuses for the lies and eventually rejection and betrayal. During his closing statements in the courtroom, Arthur showed everything I felt after I was no longer under the spell of folie à deux: the shame, guilt, resignation, depression, and a desire to unburden myself and tell the world everything that happened. (Which I obviously haven't gotten over entirely). Having said all that... 2:21 I'm afraid you are wrong here. There is no wobbliness. It was clear that the elaborate set pieces always followed Arthur falling asleep or preceded Arthur waking up. The other musical scenes were part of the real world. The film is doing something that many films fail at: showing complex internal emotions. In the Golden Age of cinema, this was often done with song and dance. I think most people didn't bother to find out that "folie à deux" is an outdated diagnosis in the versions of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders being used in the 1980's. It is basically a break from reality that is shared between two or more people. In the non-dream musical sequences, the film is telling us what Arthur AND Lee are feeling at the same time. (Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with those songs. I suspect that the film sequences they first appeared in would add additional context to what is happening in this film). I can say from experience that being part of shared psychotic experience is very much like a musical number from an old Hollywood film; you and your partner are the stars dancing beautifully in a musical that is mad, beautiful, and frenzied. 4:20 What you're calling "blank characters" is actually called "flattened affect". It is often seen those suffering from schizophrenia, autism, and (most importantly for this film) PTSD. In case you didn't catch this from the first film, Phillips is giving you an EXTREMELY REALISTIC depiction of mental illness. 4:40 And now we reach the portion of todays program where the critics show their ignorance about the subject matter. For those familiar with the DC comics and graphic novels, it is clear that Todd Phillips was inspired by Alan Moore's The Killing Joke, which gave us the "psychological horror" version of the Joker. The Killing Joke is also one of (if not the) most revered Batman stories. Aside from telling a story about a man devastated, broken, and finally destroyed by society, Phillips obviously wanted to create a realistic origin story for Batman's Joker. It is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that Batman's Joker would just appear in the wild. He has to be molded, and it is clear by the end of the film that Lee (with her background in psychology) will be doing that molding. She will mold him into her fantasy Joker that is so perfect that her infatuation will blind her to all of the abuse that is to come. 5:27 Again, showing that critics DO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO THE FILMS THEY ARE REVIEWING. Both films are set in the early 1980's. The first film was set in 1981. All those hokey 70's tunes are EXACTLY what Arthur was listening to. When Arthur/Joker was dancing down the stairs in the first film, did you notice the song that was playing? It was "Rock and Roll Part 2", the B-side of Gary Glitter's 1971 (released in 1972) single "Rock and Roll". I guess you just thought the song was catchy and didn't pay it much mind. Maybe you noticed the type of police cars? Or perhaps the clothing? Or the news broadcasts? 5:51 Hmmm..."distractingly erratic" is a good way to describe mental illness. Hey, can you remind me what these two films are about? 6:24 *facepalm* 6:50 "...repetitive and overbearing and heavy-handed...and just dreary." Gee, that's a pretty good way to describe what mental illness feels like. 8:08 Saying with a straight face Harley Quinn wouldn't pass her own Bechdel Test? Seriously?!? Are you absolutely, completely, and utterly ignorant of Batman lore?!? 8:25 Thank you. At least SOMEONE is not proudly standing on top of Dunning-Kruger's "Peak Stupid". The thing to keep in mind is this is EARLY Harley Quinn. She will have some agency in shaping her fantasy Joker, but she will lose that agency when she becomes enveloped by her creation. 9:18 "To what end?" This film expects you to use what you've seen, and once the credits roll, extrapolate the probable future. Isn't it great when you get a film that expects you to think? 9:37 You used that word "relitigate". I don't think that word means what you think it means. Let me help you out here. Todd Phillips made a film about a horribly tragic man who was devastated and eventually broken by society. A society that is disturbingly similar to our own. But instead of feeling empathy for this man, most people either (a) ignorantly reviled the film for the "unrealistic" depiction of mental illness, (b) had a moral panic over how people would react to the film or (c) cheered as the broken man said F-society and went on a killing spree. So, Todd Phillips makes the sequel about a horribly tragic man who was devastated, broken, and eventually destroyed by society. A society that is disturbingly similar to our own. But instead of feeling empathy for this man, most people (a) complain about the musical numbers, (b) complain about Gotham not being burned to the ground by Joker and Harley Quinn, (c) complain about not enjoying the film. THE WHOLE POINT OF THESE TWO FILMS IS THAT YOU ARE SICK IF YOU ENJOY THE EXPERIENCE. Obviously, I have very personal reasons for enjoying these films. It is like someone with a lot of empathy put aspects of my life up on the screen for the world to see. BUT MENTAL ILLNESS IS NOT FUN. IT IS NOT ENTERTAINING. 10:05 "...smoking is not a personality..." *facepalm* Again, you weren't paying attention. Perhaps you've never been a smoker. It's not just the act of smoking. It is HOW the smoking is done. There is a very distinct difference between how Arthur smokes and how Joker smokes. Look at how they hold the cigarette. How they bring it up to their mouths. In case you didn't know, those are called "visual cues'. Also, you're showing your ignorance about mental illness. According to the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), "as many as 70-85% of people with schizophrenia and as many as 50-70% of people with bipolar disorder smoke." Gee, I seem to recall saying something about these films being extremely realistic... 10:58 Ah, so the plot thickens... You saw the film later in the day? Perhaps you were tired? Perhaps you weren't at your sharpest? Perhaps you weren't paying close attention to the film? Perhaps you were impatient for the film to end? Yeah, I can see how the film would feel like a slog under those conditions. 11:25 Hmmm...you mention the word "dissonant". I wonder if dissonance might have any relation to mental illness in a film... 11:53 It's funny that you mention Megalopolis... The Joker films have A LOT in common with Megalopolis. - They all expect you to leave your preconceptions at the door. - They all expect you to pay close attention to every detail. - They all expect you to be consciously aware of the things you don't understand so that you can think about and research them after the film. - They all expect you to question your perception of reality, and your biases. - They all mirror the horrific failures in our society. - They all highlight what happens when society fails to see the real person behind all the labels they've plastered on. - They are all films that require more than one viewing to understand.

[@tsarstepan]

Going to see a limited anime film release, Look Back. A pretty short feature film (at 58 minutes) from the mangaka, Tatsuki Fujimoto, whose most famous work is the wildly popular, action manga - Chainsaw Man. Before you roll your eyes? Here's the IMDb plot summary: "The overly confident Fujino and the shut-in Kyomoto couldn't be more different, but a love of drawing manga brings these two small-town girls together."

[@justinriley]

I didn’t even love the first Joker movie (I liked it enough). But this movie actually makes the original a worse movie in retrospect.

[@Pswayze23]

I always though the first movie was massively overrated. It wants you to feel sorry for someone as if their life is so much harder than everyone elses, and therefore all the mayhem he ensues is justified.

[@adamp2029]

@@Pswayze23I felt the opposite. I don’t think anything in it was portrayed as being justified at all.

[@jameswilliams-zr8co]

@@Pswayze23 wrong, its not kid, the first movie is great,,this crappy sequel is a boring dull pathetic waste of time

[@wet-read]

Yes, yes it does! And I'm ALL for it! The way I see it, Joker had a negative batting average going into this lame sounding sequel.

[@wet-read]

​@@Pswayze23 I largely agree. I think the issue is Arthur being overwritten. They often do that with unsavory protagonists on some level, because they want to make sure the audience roots for them (Walter White from Breaking Bad is another great example of this sort of thing). He had ridiculous baggage to begin with and then bad thing after bad thing keeps happening to him. No real suspense at all, and no real chance for the audience to maybe not like him, at least a bit (contrasted with the main characters in TD and TKoC).

[@looney1023]

Nope! I choose The Substance! The third, superior choice.

[@AKSyndrome]

Not to sound too passive or defeatist, but on behalf of the BAD community: PLEASE DO NOT do a spoiler chat on this. By the prevaling general reception, this film was a "flash in the pan" as far as the public was concerned. Plus, it was announced today it will be on HBO Max (yes, I still call it that 😊) starting Oct. 28th. My significant other & I did see the film last night. In short: we found it rather boring and just dreary. It's not worth, in our opinion, as a curious view.

[@BreakfastAllDay]

Ha, we probably don’t have time at this point anyway!

[@jamesanson2711]

I am 59 and I love movies!!! I have walked out of 5 in my life. Now it is 6. I made it to 1hr40 out of 2 hr 18. It was boring, uninspired, and did nothing to to further the character of the Joker. How could folks earmark $200M for this?

[@BreakfastAllDay]

Oh no, sorry you walked out! You missed the very violent conclusion.

[@ebransc09]

Shoulda been titled Clown Man

[@crakatoot5480]

Without Jared and Margot, what’s the point

[@jeremyslather]

Welp, i guess I'll get to that megalopolis showing then.

[@arubinojr5670]

"The firing squad is too quick. I'll take the drowning."

[@tlovehater]

I'm good, I'll wait for Anora lol

[@Advent3546]

I'm no real fan of the first Joker but the negative reactions I've been seeing have me curious

[@BluePrada]

You wanna be edgy so bad

[@HonkHonkler]

You people are sad.

[@intimacy2440]

I took the ending as him killing the weaker persona, after the prison & Harley trauma. Remember, his lawyer said that he has multiple personalities, and uses them to cope in times of high stress. I think the death was symbolic, especially because “Arthur” is an unreliable character, since his view is scattered with delusions and hallucinations, even in the first movie. Tell me what yall think 🤔

[@Jealod24]

Multiple personality disorder has never been proven. I think you’re reading too much into it. He was way too old compared to Bruce

[@intimacy2440]

@@Jealod24 It wasn’t proven (because Gotham PD is corrupt af, which is shown through the trial and in prison), but in a second watch, I want you to notice the signs when he “shifts” into the “Joker” personality (especially when that inmate is choked out), then watch the ending. Also watch the limited scenes where the ending “guy” shows up. Maybe it’s a reach, but I doubt it 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@niktour352]

Man that sucks

[@rogue8554]

A joker/harley musical could've been so much fun, ended up being insanely boring and empty

[@literaturaearte2022]

I loved it. I can feel people will only appreciate it in the following years.

[@HonkHonkler]

No lol

[@nocturnus009]

I am watching Wolfen (1981) this weekend.

[@lancelovecraft5913]

I am going to skip this one and go see Terrifier 3 instead

[@BreakfastAllDay]

We're going to catch up with that this weekend, as well.

[@SkolneyVikings]

I went to a Joker movie and the Seinfeld finale broke out.

[@desertsuede4]

Have Christy and Alonso EVER not agreed with the critics' consensus? Often feels very cliquish. Going to critics screenings and then discuss it afterwards, and get their opinions that way? Is there any movie they like that has Rotten on RT, and vice versa?

[@BreakfastAllDay]

All the time. We don't love The Wild Robot the way everyone else does, for example: kzbin.infoNBn9vfRAfXE?si=VSsid6XHMimD1yE-&t=564

[@jasonesposito5606]

I have absolutely zero desire to see this. Once I just it was a musical and hearing reviews on it nope I'll stay home

[@TdF_101]

first film was a fluke, a crossbreed between dc-universe Joker and Scorsese films (King of Comedy...). It had an original look and high production value. The director doesn't strike me as someone who is particularly good at making a prestige film or a meaningful one. But whatever.

[@HonkHonkler]

Cope harder because your fear-monger about it not only failed, but wasn’t even true lol. First Joker is a free elseword origin film.

[@HonkHonkler]

But whatever lol. We keep taking wins, so it’s all good, whatever cope helps you from offing yourself lol.

[@BadGuyRants]

Harley Quinn hasn’t been an interesting character on screen since the animated series from the 90s & that supposedly was made for children? She needs a break for a while… I mean so does Joker. I think our society turning into comic book land was a mistake.

[@JordanStrong-h4j]

It would have been interesting to have had Harley become the abuser in an iteration of her story with Joker, instead of being the abused one most of the time.

[@intimacy2440]

She manipulated him the whole movie though

[@JordanStrong-h4j]

@@intimacy2440 Gotchya. I hadn’t seen it yet. But don’t mind spoilers since I didn’t care for the first film.

[@intimacy2440]

@@JordanStrong-h4j I mean, I think she did. Hard to tell with an unreliable character with delusions and hallucinations lol I liked the first one, myself. The second one, I walked out not liking it, until I thought about the ending more. It’s a mind-fuck, but it makes sense once you know you can’t trust what “Arthur” sees or thinks.

[@travisspazz1624]

It didn't fully commit to being a musical. You got Lady Gaga to just do cover songs?!

[@jdj830]

I never saw the first Joker and my impression based on its effect on the culture is that it elevated toxic masculinity to insufferable martyrdom and is the reason there’s a distinct gender gap in this year’s election. Am I being unfair? I’m hoping to see Megalopolis this weekend but will give this a pass.

[@thomasbaxter1371]

A slog??????? No way, this was mesmerizing from start to finish.

[@myytchanneldinakoha8498]

The thin plot does not justify the runtime. As a character study, it’s unrewarding. Phoenix and Gaga were really good tho.

[@thomasbaxter1371]

@@myytchanneldinakoha8498Not sure which film you watched. It didn't have a thin plot, it was thematically dense.

[@myytchanneldinakoha8498]

@@thomasbaxter1371 Theme is not plot tho. And it drags its theme for over two hrs.

[@aaronsanders9328]

Megalopolis good, Joker 2 movie bad

[@JowanaBueser]

I've seen it three days ago and oof. For better or worse, this film will crank up the online hot take cottage industry.

[@BreakfastAllDay]

Ha, very true, we're seeing that already, Jowana!

[@HonkHonkler]

You mean like this video? Lol.

[@HonkHonkler]

@@BreakfastAllDayI look forward to your tears in November lol. Your too Jowana lol.

[@EmilyFoxSeaton]

This needs to be the end of Hollywood making movies to upset their fans.

[@MaleTears]

I’m only going to see it for Lady Gaga. Mother Monster just singing and doing her thing is enough for me

[@carmichaelk.5214]

Oh yea, she's great. Especially in those commercials where she shills pills for big pharma. Such an inspirational figure!

[@lisahall9061]

Dont waste your time. Its a huge disappointment.. gratuitous violence..

[@thecriticandtheuncle5784]

I look forward to James Gunn bringing DC out of this grim batch of "gritty" movies where we can't have fun.

[@SydneyTravellersGuide]

I really liked this. I didnt like JOKER but this I enjoyed. 8/10ish.

[@HonkHonkler]

Pathetic comment and for clear ideological reasons. Why you’re losing lol.

[@sudevsen]

Bad musical numbers are a hate crime against the gays so I apologise to Alonso on everyone's behalf

[@filippo2769]

The first Joker with Joaquin Phoenix is one of the most overrated movie of the past 10 years.. His performance is also so far up his A%$ it's almost unbearable. Todd Philips I think is just an average filmmaker.. He did a couple of hits, actually war dogs is better than both jokers, apart from the hangover

[@mikekelly4702]

dancer in the dark.

[@NitramNetwork]

I liked the ideas in this film and it worked for me. If someone watched The Dark Knight and rooted for the Joker then this film isn't for them but it is about them. The Joker, of this film, doesn't live up to the power fantasy with which people idolise him. And that's what the film is about, especially at the end.

[@desertsuede4]

Great summary of what the movie is about. I really enjoyed it and I'm shocked at the dislike for it from critics and audience, but especially from critics (audiences are usually not very receptive to movies that challenge them in any way).

[@HonkHonkler]

And it failed to do that commentary too lol. I’m still rooting lol.

[@HonkHonkler]

And now the film is dead. Nice job with non commentary on people merely likely a fictional character lol. And then you wonder why we’re winning? Lol. Because entertainment is first with us lol.

[@ChrisOliver4307]

Ok my guess is Lady Gaga is a figment of Arthur's imagination. Todd Phillips MO is to do the same thing twice

[@danielnelson9411]

I do not waste my time watching remakes. Those that do remakes are killing the movie industry. If you cannot come up with something new, you are wasting everyone's time and money.

[@BreakfastAllDay]

It's actually a sequel, but you can avoid this, too.

[@danielnelson9411]

@@BreakfastAllDay Already did. Saved my 🤑

[@padraicnoonan]

Is there a spoiler vid uploaded?

[@skatealex1]

I was initially excited for this movie but I think I may even skip it after this review and what I've been hearing about it.

[@sarkisdrejian5395]

the title of this movie is tailor-made for you two.

[@jasoncarrick5461]

The first one is overrated, with a few intriguing scenes. The second one is just plain not good.

[@benfisher1376]

Absolutely agree with you .

[@HonkHonkler]

Cope

[@faaug]

It’s a series of missed opportunities……. that’s what this film is. It aims to go somewhere, but it NEVER gets there. It still baffles me this was green lit by a major studio and that Joaquin and Gaga said yes to this shallow, watery, insipid script. 🤦🏽‍♂️

[@mthomas1091]

Team Batdance 🙄