Joker: People Think This Movie Will Crumble Society (Review)

[@AmandaTheJedi]

Just clarifying, I did really enjoy Joker! I truly stand by my belief that how excited you are to see this movie is going to affect how much you like it. If you're excited, you'll probably love it but on the flip side, if you're looking for reasons to hate it, you're going to find them. Now that it's out, what are you guys thinking?

[@ziggygunz2447]

Exactly! Took the words right out of my mouth...for a DC shill :P

[@kelvinzer0614]

Well,.. Amanda. Do you actually think, do you actually beleive, that the movie would have been better, if EVERYTHING we had just saw was a fantasy from Arthur ? That would have meant that there would not have been a "Joker" in the movie, AT ALL. Seriously,... It would have destroyed the movie completely... "I've dreamed I was called Joker" isn't a good movie plot.

[@joshua8414]

Just discovered/subbed to your channel! Solid review. Nicely done. Thanks!

[@dejota1136]

Spoilers... . . . . . I think whether or not Arthur was adopted is unclear. Joker has delusions and is a narcissist like his mother. This shared diagnosis, at least to me blurs the line to whether or not Penny was forced by Wayne to sign the papers or not. She could be crazy and still be a victim of Thomas. It might not be as implied as I thought but it was something that stood out to me.

[@ironyage]

Thanks for this. A very even handed and well informed review.

[@swagromancer]

If a clown movie can crumble your society, your society deserves to be crumbled.

[@sallyforth2955]

It's was the clown president that deservingly crumbled it. Meanwhile, where are my royalties, lolol.

[@mistermetokurarchives]

@@sallyforth2955 imagine unironically thinking that

[@sallyforth2955]

Mister Metokur I was not being ironic. Snl, Disney, etc where are my royalties? Did you mean that part, or about us getting what we deserve from electing the trench coat long tie guy?

[@luckyprincepk]

Awesome statement Robin! Don't know what's wrong with these people. I think if Joker is of that level then also put Silence of the Lambs, John Wick, Rambo Last Blood and other psychic and violent movies in the same list first.

[@sallyforth2955]

Prasad Kulkarni yes. Someone should start a test lawsuit filed if the person believes their love one is negatively impacted by violent content in movies, video games, politics. Attention: if you lost someone in a shooting after a trump rally, sue the RNC for not vetting their candidate better. Not against free speech, just holding the profiteers of violent speech liable.

[@Caisio]

Because when we all saw V for Vendetta, everybody that was discontent with their government, went around the world bombing countries parliaments right?

[@alcalshel]

Well there are protesters who wear Guy Fawkes masks all around the world today , so maybe ?

[@johnnyguitar7921]

@@alcalshel lol

[@deazy6453]

... No. But Anonymous.

[@satyamthassu1509]

Well said.. Well said..

[@mawarwati9224]

v for vendetta pleased all those kind of people tho,it had a homosexual and fascism thing that those people support so yeah.

[@vaderdave5046]

"It's just a movie!!!" Thank you! People need to realize that again!

[@Dazs]

Right?!? I feel like people forget that movies have push boundaries before. Everyone forgets about clock work orange? Also the obvious cannot restrict art. People are getting outraged for the sake of it I feel.

[@indobleh]

The problem with "It's just a movie!!!" is in today's world it has real life consequences, lunatics can walk into a cinema with semi automatic rifles and start shooting the place up! It's already happened, that's our world today. Nothing to do with content, art or idea's just someone crazy wanting to make a name for themselves off the the back of popular media. This films theme and content potentially attracts that nutjob psycho killer, like a moth to the light. You're not wrong it is just a movie! I hope everyone see's it the same way, it's pretty simple.

[@AmandaTheJedi]

indobleh but the more people say things like ‘this is going to make people do bad things’ the more you’re encouraging that reaction because people know they’re already getting the reaction they’d want.

[@vijaybhoski5259]

If it was just a movie, these discussions would not be happening..

[@MatrixEdit]

Not all people are sane, so they don't realize it

[@terryburnett751]

So can we say this is the best joker, cause he's literally causing madness.

[@johncalhoun9444]

Seriously. I cant think of another character who's origin story would have the military and us government in a panic and issuing warnings. Joker always succeeds in causing a chaos

[@JasonXBeats]

Brilliant!

[@coltonfauquher]

that’s such an interesting way to think about it... i love it!

[@MasterBetty69]

terry Burnett this amazing comment deserves more likes. I wish I could give it 1000

[@marlom7882]

terry Burnett all it takes is one bad day… or movie I guess

[@ckline5486]

I am 55. An "old man" to most on this page. But I have seen many wonderful movies. I once feared America wasn't producing great actors any more. But Joaquin Phoenix has developed into a genius. His performance in "You Were Never Really Here" was fantastic. When I see the physical transformation he made between that film and "Joker", it speaks to his strong commitment. I know Joker will be intense and am glad to see there is still genius here and there among US actors. To my younger friends, art is what makes like worth living. Give it all you have.

[@alpkorkmaz6967]

Hey man, great comment. Good of you/for you to follow the industry at the age you are, which is not that much.

[@FBIAgent-ur2gd]

As young as I am I would like to *tip my fodora* in respect to you

[@ziggygunz2447]

Don't see what age has to do with following or enjoying modern cinema.

[@ckline5486]

@@ziggygunz2447 Good point Ziggy. Movies are for everyone.

[@ziggygunz2447]

@@ckline5486 praise from Caesar! Lol jk thanks man. It just makes sense going as far back as cavemen gathering around a flickering fire. No age limit on enjoyment.

[@dickgrayson8799]

If you people are one film away from killing people, then I would think that speaks volumes about society itself, not filmmakers.

[@jhart1127]

It says alot about individual responsibility.

[@reneedailey1696]

We live in a society

[@OneTopic]

A spoiler free discussion of the controversy? I'm down with that.

[@OneTopic]

WHOOPS DIPPING OUT AT 13 MIN THANK YOU

[@AmandaTheJedi]

One Topic At A Time AHA I GOT YOU WITH THAT WARNING

[@KealohaHarrison]

At the beginning when you said “the last Joker left people wanting” I assumed you meant Heath Ledger’s Joker and were gonna say “left people wanting more” and then I suddenly remembered Jared Leto played the Joker after having blocked that movie out of my mind completely lol

[@KealohaHarrison]

liukangstoupee that’s true, the way I worded it made it sound like I hated him in the movie, which I didn’t really, rather than just hating the movie itself. I think he wasn’t in it long enough for me to have formed an opinion on whether or not he gave a good performance y’know? Like if he was more prominent in the story instead of being a glorified cameo then I could say one way or the other if he was good in the role or not

[@danielarcher4060]

I had the exact same thought

[@kaylabarr7432]

I am a little lost on how a man who loathes himself so much he almost can't continue to live has been labeled a narcissist I never got narcissism from his character. He despises his own existence so much that it breaks him. His actions are unforgivable but his story is a tragedy. He lived his whole life being tortured and asking for help that never came.

[@gweejiahan9336]

There is one scene where Arthur holds an old photo of his mother with the line "I love your hair -TW" on the back so its still possible that his mother wasn't crazy at first and the affair with Thomas Wayne really happened and Thomas wayne really did pull some strings and framed her as crazy.

[@kimberlyhaines107]

It said “smile” not “hair”.

[@a3ch]

Or she could’ve written it as something she desperately wanted and it furthered her own delusions as she fell deeper.

[@sylascarey1300]

I took it as they had an affair and when he ended it (maybe because she was unstable), she adopted Arthur as a ploy to get him back .

[@Xehanort10]

The funny thing was none of the things people who didn't like the film thought it would cause happened. No one dressed up as clowns and started killing people, no incels shot up theatres, no one went on a killing spree or anything like that. People who didn't like the film just wanted to scare people out of going to see it.

[@NatReyes961]

I hate the amount of intense hyperbole and ridiculous controversy around this movie. This movie feels like it’s going to invoke the Streisand Effect. Thank you for saying “It’s just a movie!” I can relate to that.

[@yourarchnemesis8453]

Its sounds like these ppl want something bad to happen at a joker screening.

[@s.ormgamalson6489]

This isnt the first time thomas Wayne was made into an antagonist but even if he were a benevolent, friendly billionaire oligarch, his role in the rot of the city would remain.

[@Irvingstark]

Apparently, all of America is in complete disarray and madness over this movie. ... But I never heard about it, till yesterday.

[@ravenwhiteduck3158]

Used to be don't believe everything you hear on TV, now it's social media too

[@kasmidjan]

watch RT (russian today) LA is getting more and more homeless

[@Hanyousan1661]

@@kasmidjan Where would you rather be homeless? NYC, Chicago, or the place that is temperate year round? I used to see people along the I-20 corridor in Louisiana hitchhiking to central and southern CA all through the 90s and 2000s. It's only politically expedient for people like you to push notice of it now, instead of when the Terminator was running the place into the ground.

[@masterstuffing]

What’s more offensive the joker or literally hitler 👏👏 2019

[@redx210]

Really? ask John wick 3 killing 400+ people or rambo killing 300+ people in last 30 mins of the damn film!

[@kennysp666]

I saw the German movie Look Who's Back on Netflix. That was depressing.

[@kennysp666]

Hitler is also in Preacher. I suppose it depends on how they are portrayed.

[@markwilson4078]

“Everybody just needs to calm down a little bit” Amen! I will never forget “The Interview” and how The Guardians of Peace tried to cancel the film because of how North Korea and Kim-Jong (Il? Or was it Un?) was portrayed

[@InitialPC]

Un

[@EDP2000]

The fact that people are putting this movie on a political pedestal is really insane. Granted, people put movies on a political pedestal back then, but never to this extent.

[@fm111.]

Society is crumbling on its own damn accord I think this movie and particularly this character only reflects alot of people's frustration and discontentment with the system

[@MobotnikStudios]

“THE AMAZING SPIDER MI LOVE BATMAN” was also quite a controversial DC movie, though I enjoyed it.

[@jalves6494]

Also Todd Phillips doesn’t say that, that point of view about the ending is wrong, he said he doesn’t want to define it which clearly means it’s up to us as an audience to determine what’s real and fake which again is a great idea

[@AmandaTheJedi]

J Alves nah when he was talking about it in full while there he specifically said that he found it interesting that people were interpreting it that way, I know he’s not completely closing it as a possibility but he definitely said it wasn’t really what he was going for. I think he definitely wants people to define it their own way though. I just thought it was interesting that it didn’t seem to be his intention at all.

[@jalves6494]

Amanda the Jedi oh ok gotcha, the way you explained it is probably how most people will view it so I hope he just accepts the fact that people think he’s smarter than he actually is

[@AmandaTheJedi]

@@jalves6494 I'm honestly good if that's not the case, I just thought it was really kinda wild when it transitioned to that moment and I was like 'woah, holy shit, did any of this happen?'. But there's so many ways to analyze this movie (some people suggest that he's not even the Joker at all and just some random crazy guy) which makes it really fun to think about and talk about with different people

[@jalves6494]

Amanda the Jedi I’m going to the earliest show I’m able to in Boston on Thursday afternoon so I can’t wait to see this for myself!

[@jalves6494]

Amanda the Jedi ok I just got home from seeing this movie, clearly the end is up to us, it’s very obvious that after the ambulance hits the car, everything that happens after is made up in his head to glorify his actions being held as a hero. Genius.

[@Tirreger]

Jack Nicholson.. Heath Ledger.. Joaquin Pheonix.. I love all the three versions of the Joker these man have created. Noone I think is better just a different interpretation.

[@kpacf]

the aurora shooter has nothing to do with the joker character. that whole story was a complete lie

[@kimberlyhaines107]

It’s the media. What do you expect?

[@RyansChannel0203]

Joker > The Dark Knight Don't @ me I also had no problem with the supporting characters btw. Each character makes a significant impact on Arthur Fleck. I had no problem with the Wayne's either because I thought it was used perfectly without being too distracting.

[@AliciaNyblade]

I think the point about Thomas Wayne possibly being Arthur's father was a nod to the story that inspired the Joker's creation in the first place: "The Man Who Laughs" by Victor Hugo. The novel features a disfigured clown named Gwynplaine who learns his mouth was cut into its eerie grin as a punishment to his father, a nobleman who stood up for the people. Actually, "Joker" deals with a lot of the same themes as "The Man Who Laughs" in terms of confronting social inequality, to the point where it took direct shots and imagery from the 1928 silent film adaptation of Hugo's book. And, as a big TMwL fan, I thoroughly enjoyed that.

[@Sourabh169]

Has anyone noticed that the move used Hanz Zimmers Dark knight's themes at 2 ocassions - 1. When Arthur is talking with the lady counsellor there is this constant rising Horn Percussion in the background. Same as that of the dark knight. 2. When Arthur is visiting Arkham Asylum you can hear The Dark Knight's Joker theme. It's possible you might have missed it but watching it over again if you pay attention you can hear them. I am not saying they are the exact same background themes but they did sound extremely similar to me.

[@Princess_0f_Trees]

It’s definitely about rich vs. poor. Idk how anyone could say it’s not when the hero’s are billionaires, and the villain only spiraled down into a life of crime after his mental health programs ran out of money..... and he no longer had access to counseling or medication.....if the Wayne family paid their fair share of taxes in the universe this version of the Joker wouldn’t have been able to exist. And that’s what this movie points out. The Wayne family would do more good if they sat on their asses and just paid their taxes. I’m not convinced that’s what the writers were going for. But it definitely parallels into our universe too well..... and it’s not a shitty ideology to want economic justice to ensure people who are pre disposed to mental illness never have to result to becoming street smart as a form of survival. They will just get the care they need because those programs would be funded.

[@Bravohalo]

I loved this movie, but having the Waynes in it almost ruined it for me. Complete fan service, really didn't belong in a Joker origin.

[@veloc.raptor9136]

How can one comic book character have so many iconic interpretations: I dont know which was better Mark Hamil's unique and memorable voice and laugh to the animated series Jack Nicholson's cool and collected agent of controlled chaos Heath Ledger's insanely unnerving image of "those who just want to watch the world burn" or Joaquin Phoenix's frightenedly real portrayal of a deeply troubled mind Saying one is better than the other is like saying you prefer cake over sex, or sex over cake. Both people, both are good

[@veloc.raptor9136]

My understanding of the ending to Joker and quote "you wouldnt get it": Joker still has the "uncontrollable laughing disease" but has now fully accepted it and doesnt reveal to anyone. So when the therapists asks he lies and pretends that its from a joke. His hate for anyone in power is still there and thats why the other guards start chasing him (he attacked the therapist and probably seriously damaged her). Another one i like is the idea that The whole movie could have been made up by the joker (the entire thing) and the end is him finishing his fantasy, leaving the audience confused as to what is actually the jokers real past. Another one that im not too sure about but people have mentioned: that its joker realising that his actions lead to the Bruce's parents getting shot and Joker is finding the fact that he literally created his own worst enemy by becoming his own worst enemy the greatest joke ever.

[@veloc.raptor9136]

Also the point I checked out with Arthur was when he started chasing after the last guy to kill him off. The first one I kind of accepted, the second one was collateral but the third was too much. This wasnt a man who wanted freedom. This was a man of hate who wanted to those who wronged him to suffer and die.

[@peyotepete4903]

Alot of people will be wearing purple suits for Halloween this year

[@robk.6591]

One of the biggest weapons a villain can use is to gain someone's sympathy. Joker looks like it's doing just that. He's still a villain regardless.

[@robertperrotto870]

really not sympathy as much as empathy. And then there is a point where it just stops. Where that point is is really up to the individual watching the film.

[@AvidCat5000]

My favorite theories are that the entire movie was just in Joker's head justifying himself, or it's Arthur wishing that he was Joker. Directors can be wrong with their films. I'm looking at you Blade Runner.

[@laurenjadee]

Just wanna say that this video was SUPER well done. Such good editing. Good shit Amanda.

[@AmandaTheJedi]

Lauren Jade upside of film festivals is that I feel I can take the time to make something better than me just talking before the movie drops

[@melware1372]

Media: This movie is dangerous and it will crumble society Everyone who has seen the movie: Haha funny dance meme

[@wildwesley9328]

I loved the cinematography, acting and score of the movie. I only really took issue with the writing. The beginning felt to divorced from the ending. It did also feel too “topical”, as in they tried to cover too many topics/themes at once instead of diving in to one or 2 themes more in depth. They weren’t able to really say anything about all the topics they tried to cover in the run time so it feels like it’s trying to be topical without understanding the issues. It made me feel like the movie had everything to say without saying anything at all.

[@MrDayday112]

Was waiting for your review on this. I like that you're not doing the whole it's problematic thing but still addressed it. Looking forward to watching this movie

[@yorkiyorkxx]

Lol your profile pic

[@VR0180]

I may be an outlier but I actually liked Jared Leto’s joker. If I met him in real life he would absolutely terrify me. Arthur I can see myself being more uncomfortable than afraid, at least at the start of the film.

[@blinktucker262]

Sounds like the greatest movie since The Godfather. Now I'm definitely seeing this film.

[@siresorb1419]

Sjw: We need to politics into everything! DC: got it. Sjw: Not that political!!! RE!

[@jayncoclassic]

No be political but what is the film saying?

[@paulmartin591]

Anti-SJWs: I hate all this politics in movies. DC: What about Joker? Anti-SJWs: Oh wait never mind. I do like politics in movies when it conforms to my preconceived ideology.

[@siresorb1419]

@@paulmartin591 These were anarchist politics dude. We liked the movie because the movie was good...

[@mapuangames5847]

Joker seem like a leftist to me, I mean he hates Thomas Wayne who acts a lot like Trump

[@mapuangames5847]

seems*

[@Dazs]

Great review, I agree 100% on your thoughts on the craze. The media is driving things to an extreme degree. But well constructed video also without spoiling anything. (She provides a heads up) I got my tickets for next week and excited!

[@Dazs]

Appreciate the heads up on the spoiler talk later in the video. (FYI she notates that 8:58 minutes in where to skip to)

[@dyejohn1905]

Its just a movie, in a couple of years it will be forgotten and the next big thing will come along.

[@davidmace3310]

If this movie can crumble society then guess what it’s already crumbled.

[@codyw1]

​@DejaVoodooDoll The whole reason the SJW crowd is having a meltdown is because this movie is showing society driving a WHITE MAN to madness. If it was a woman or a minority, they'd be celebrating it as a damning indictment of the modern world. But flipping it upends THEIR carefully cherry picked worldview (this fantasy land they live in where all white men live in Paradise and have everything given to them on a plate), and hysteria results...

[@Sky-ps9ev]

I get that people will disagree really strongly ( because that’s what people do when you tell them their favourite thing isn’t … you know … the best thing ever ) but I neither liked or disliked the movie . I waited to watch it to avoid the hype and I don’t think the film reached the high that the hype raised it too . Which is a shame because hype really can affect a movie for better or worse . I did like Phoenix , but ledger was better ( my opinion ) I just don’t think it went far enough in its ideas and concept . I think they should’ve pushed much further into the shift of his personality from a shy individual to a potential super villain . I know people are gonna say “ oh but that’s not the point “ well I disagree . I don’t think it’s too much from a film called joker , clearly set in the Batman universe, to capture the moments that lead to the the joker that we all recognise . Once again this is just me but I really wanted to see him develop into an almost confident insanity . To me by the end he was still the same shy individual , just with a few more murders under his belt . I still can’t see why people would follow / celebrate him to the point of freeing him from police custody and starting riots , there wasn’t any point in the film where I thought “ now I get why they’re following him “ . Once again this is MY option , not looking to debate just saying how I see it haha , I just felt more could’ve been done with this premise .

[@tornay131]

Marvel vs. DC? We got Logan and Deadpool. It's time for DC to shine.

[@aersiul]

This movie works a lot better when you think of it as the Joker's side of the story (like a handful of scenes sugest). You don't know if it's true, if he's making it up or maybe he's trying to remember, but his memories have been corrupted by his own madness. Or it even could be an alternate universe type of story. Sorry. I know, old video. LOL

[@sergioguzman4550]

Hollywood overestimates the effect and value of movies.

[@LittleLea141]

oh god the amount of misogynistic incels emerging after the movie came out and feeling like the main characters killed me

[@chocod1352]

I love watching people's reviews but why can't people just go and watch a fucking movie anymore? These 'PERPETUALLY OFFENDED SERIAL COMPLAINERS' get on my fucking nerves. (Edit) love your videos 😘

[@chelscara]

While Phoenix is great, my opinion of the movie is “ya know, it’s alright. I’m glad for the ‘you get what you fucking deserve meme”. Don’t get the extremes either way.

[@thevillainwasright2601]

I’m betting it will be top 5 best movies if not THE best of 2019

[@Kanashimimo]

I think this movie still tires me to this day, because it's just another portrayal of mentally ill character going violent and being creepy, when it could be so much more. I think the movie would have gained from other mentally ill characters who are NOT on Joker's level. The discussion around this movie is honestly exhausting, as a neurodivergent and mentally ill person, hearing people telling it's awesome because it's saying "look at what might happen if we don't treat mentally ill people good". And I'm like... Well, we're already treated like that. And most of us don't become violent towards others as a result. It's mostly directed towards ourselves. Also, the female characters in this movie... Eh. Not the greatest portrayal of womanhood. The most important character is only a fantasy, that we ultimately don't know anything about.

[@jonathansmith4742]

The movie was awesome including the Wayne aspect. My girlfriend and myself both laughed at many of the “bad” parts. Why? Because it’s a movie and we love that Joker is insane and incredibly dangerous.

[@Beacuzz]

I'll be honest I didn't truly understand why it was made, but I understand why some people enjoyed it. That said I almost had an anxiety attack in the theater and had to leave in the first 20 minutes

[@Princess_0f_Trees]

What was “Dangerous” about it is that it pointed out that the Wayne family would do more for Gotham city if they just paid their fair share in taxes than Bruce does dressed as a militarized bat.

[@tomeeshahaller4226]

Y'know what, I'm absolutely seeing this movie. I'm interested in seeing a different take on the Joker.

[@alisaurus4224]

Oh man, I’ve seen a bunch of Amanda’s more recent vids where the sign is still in the back, out of focus, and i thought it said “I LOVE BENIS”

[@Deathly-Night]

hey amanda! great review and just wanted to give you a shout because not only have i been looking at countless joker related videos the past week but i'm also a HUGE fan of NoisyButters and realized as soon as i saw your name that i was in the same discord server as you :D the internet is a small world!

[@danielcopeland3544]

Speaking as someone who has experienced mental illness, I think this movie is a much more sophisticated commentary on it than most people give it credit for. (Some spoilers below.) No, Arthur is not a narcissistic psychopath. He has some form of schizophrenia with comorbid uncontrollable laughter as a result of childhood abuse and traumatic brain injury. His laughter, his delusions, and his smoking are symptoms of his illness. His violence is not. His violence is a cold, deliberate choice, after he discovers that killing people gives him control. Some people are talking like, well, if they'd just given him his drugs he'd have been OK. No. If they'd given him some less harmful means of controlling his life, he'd have been OK. As for the Waynes, I disagree. I don't think they were badly written. I think you're just seeing what a man like Thomas Wayne looks like in a city like Gotham. (This bit got longer than I meant it to, so feel free to skip the rest.) Frankly Thomas Wayne's depiction in the _Dark Knight_ Trilogy always struck me as false, and it's just as well they didn't give him any more screen time or it would have seriously weakened the story. (He's a billionaire CEO but he takes time off from CEO-ing to be a doctor instead because it's a nicer way to help people? Could he _get_ any more saccharinely saintly?) The fact is, Gotham is a shitty city with people in it who have the money to fix it but choose not to. There's a limit on how good those people can realistically be. Thomas Wayne in _Joker_ is a man who gives to charity but, like all fortunate people, underestimates the role of luck and overestimates the role of merit in his own success. As a result he lacks empathy for the disadvantaged, not out of callousness but because of distance. He just doesn't see what they suffer. His thought process is "How bad could it be? _I_ made it OK. They must just be lazy." Add to that that we first see him at a very bad moment. Three of his employees have just been brutally killed, and he _does_ care about that, and he has no idea what they did to bring their own deaths upon themselves. Naturally he's going to be full of anger towards the killer. Then there's the scene where Arthur meets Bruce at the gates of Wayne Manor and Alfred confronts him. Again, from Arthur's perspective we see all this in the worst possible light. But imagine things from Alfred's point of view -- some dirty man off the street, potentially a paedophile for all he can tell, reaching through the gate and fondling his kid. I'd be pretty harsh in those circumstances too. Even Thomas Wayne's response to Penny Fleck isn't all _that_ off, when you realize that from his perspective she's basically been harassing him for decades. Again, he has no idea of her real circumstances; Arthur goes and looks up her record at Arkham and finds out about the abuse she's suffered (and passed on to him) but Wayne has no reason to do that. Finally, in the alley scene, my memory may be at fault but I don't remember any other depiction of Thomas Wayne, even the _Dark Knight_ Trilogy Thomas Wayne, physically stepping in front of Martha and Bruce to try and protect them from the killer. So there's that.

[@amphithere]

I really love this analysis... most people associate him with being a sociopath but I hadn't realized he may also be a narcissist until you pointed it out. this movie is a great character study and I'm SO excited to see it

[@foxbox1802]

My favourite so far. 1) Joaquin Phoenix 2) Jack Nicholson 3) Heath Ledger

[@dr_lubaba]

0. Mark Hamill

[@bethkindt8432]

Ledger was a philosophy joker, Phoenix was a psychological joker.

[@chadfalardeau3259]

In DC comic Canon there is more than one Joker

[@lucidheller]

i remember feeling SUPER unsafe in my house after watching this because my family (who all suffer from mental health issues) related a bit... too much to arthur, and found a bit too much joy in the worst parts of the movie. i couldn’t sleep because i was scared.

[@izzyspell2629]

When I watched Joker in the cinema with my friend, about halfway to the movie it stopped and the lights turned on. Like 8 police officers walked in along with a cinema employee who said that they got an anonymous tip that there might be a bomb. And I live in a peaceful central Europe country, may I add, I've never felt endangered anywhere and never got told that I could literally die. The officers kinda looked through the people, one of them said a joke on the way back and the film started playing where it left off. I sh*t you not I was scared for my life the entire rest of the movie and walked out of there trembling. My friend who lives in a large city where this is more common had to help me calm down. I did genuinely believe, after the officers came in, that someone could go bonkers and blow us all up because they agreed with what was happening in the movie.

[@bane5343]

Damnit, I understand he's new to it but Todd made the one thing you don't do when making prestige films. Never Answer for the Ending!!!

[@liz6595]

I met a psychopath who said he felt like he understood the joker. And that this movie understood him. He also got tattoos too look like the joker. I'm not joking this dude was off his rocker. But I feel like alot of people like that feel that way. They see their own toxic mindset and behavior mirrored and they feel that the movie is trying to make excuses for them But it's because they have that behavior. They are so blind to their own reality that they can't see how horrible they are XD

[@ZombieMaster420]

I'm on the side of it's a good movie but only because it's based off other better films. Taxi Driver and King of Comedy are the better versions of this. Joker really only stands on the shoulder's of them and the fact that the character is one of the most famous characters of all time. I do find it fascinating how people have defended, obsessed and outright cheered for this movie despite the fact it is of a tragic character not a hero. I think that unintentionally it highlighted why the Joker has goons, henchmen and followers. Some twisted part of society really does empathize with the villain and want to see bad things happen to others simply because bad things happened to them. In that way the movie is a powerful piece of art but I doubt it was ever the intention of Phillips.

[@VR0180]

This is an excellent point. I never thought about his goons that way before 🤔

[@banjo1154]

Lady DC has made plenty of movies that don’t suck. Quit what that nonsense.

[@j.k.1239]

It's good vs great.DC have made good movies like Wonder Woman, Aquaman ,Shazam but Joker is on another level just like Dark knight.

[@AmandaTheJedi]

They've made a lot of progress but I think people including myself are always waiting for the next Dark Knight. Wonder Woman was awesome until the ending, I personally hated the villain side of Shazam though I really enjoyed the movie otherwise. This movie is the most consistent thing they've been involved with in ages. There's no lulls, it stays enjoyable throughout, satisfying ending, leaves a lot of room for discussion. It's not perfect but to a lot of people this is going to hit the mark in every way.

[@CousinCubone]

@@AmandaTheJedi but in saying "waiting for DC to make a movie that doesnt suck" you are comparing it to something that you think is the standard for being better, and you cant say TDK because that's DC so you must be comparing them to their only competitor in the comicbook movie game, Marvel, and lady if you think Marvel movies are great and "scratch that itch" for you then why the fuck am I even here commenting on this...haha

[@AmandaTheJedi]

@@CousinCubone Literally was speaking from a general stand point of the public being excited for DC to start making great movies again. And I definitely meant that from a standpoint of where they were with TDK (which was great), and to where they got with Justice League (which in my opinion, sucked). They've made some great steps towards that with Wonder Woman, Shazam, and now this, and I think they finally understand what they need to do to produce quality films. Doesn't change the fact that the general public consensus is that they'd been struggling and in some cases, down right sucking.

[@jadenvanhess2341]

Not recently. The only DCEU movie that was really good was Shazam imo. Everything else was either God Awful or just boring and forgettable.

[@JenniferMcMahonhawaii78]

”This town needs an enema” - The Joker

[@s.ormgamalson6489]

What a coincidence that arthur went into her apartment as a stranger and then the murderer cop who was recently sentenced.

[@s.ormgamalson6489]

8:25 that's where most stand up comedians begin. Talks about your own history

[@Bat_Fiend.]

I had to wait a long time to see it and was so excited to. I was not disappointed. I loved it. Although it had it's flaws with the Wayne family bits, I think that was sort of needed to tie it to the universe. However maybe they could have done it a bit better. I think it's sort of childish to expect and want the protagonist to be the hero or a good person. As long as it's not portrayed as a good thing. Here it's all from his perspective, the whole movie is about his mental state. And therefore it makes sense that HE sees it as good. It was horrifying to see him kill these people and I was uncomfortable. But it worked. It's not supposed to be an uplifting story that glorifies everything the main character does. It's supposed to make you uncomfortable, and relate somewhat to the themes. Eventhough they are on the extreme side and dramatized. Just because a movie is violent it's not condoning violence, it's an age old debate. Like Amanda said "it's just a movie". I interpreted the ending sort of like Amanda and I think it's ok to stick to that. I would have preferred it. But it's left open ambiguous enough that it still works.

[@rahulb4638]

I see nothing in this movie that can crumble anyone. Sensitive people are gonna be crumbled anyway. That's their problem.

[@youtuberzero2583]

So this movie is Joker begins, he's been training his whole life to become the Joker.

[@USCena]

I guess Joker has hit the list of "most controversial (but overhyped and fear-mongered by the mass public) media arts", joining the list to include: The Grand Theft Auto, Dark Night, Scream, Manhunt, Mortal Kombat, etc. series and franchises.

[@VictorRodriguez-xk5ck]

Nobody talking about how hustlers is encouraging woman to drug men without them knowing 🤣🤣

[@matthewstephenson5781]

That's probably because that one clearly paints them as the bad guys, ends with them getting arrested, and is based on a true story so can only be changed so much

[@gregoryadams9025]

The Joker is political. There are extremely clear class issues addressed throughout the film; and our societies lack of treatment twords mental illness especially in poor areas is a very real political issue.

[@ckline5486]

Joker is genius. I have not seen a film this good in years.

[@kingebeneezer7986]

I think Thomas Wayne is portrayed as an asshole because we are seeing Wayne from Joker's perspective and the Joker is an unreliable narrator.

[@plaguebearerbob8882]

Ah Joker. The longest Batman origin story ever made...

[@Corn_Pone_Flicks]

It's like we're living in a culture of toddlers, people who learn a new word and have to use it over and over. Somebody coined the term "incel" and now people see them everywhere, as if the sad sack who can't get a date is somehow a new phenomenon, and as if it has one goddamn thing to do with the Joker.

[@puncherofbread]

I would love a Joker style film featuring someone like Bane or Scarecrow

[@Tearsheet]

In fairness, I did laugh a few times at improper times. Mostly because dark humor has a certain balance of taboo and horror. It's a very well built movie. Sure, the humor is horribly dark, but if you appreciate it as a movie, then you'll enjoy the movie more.

[@VR0180]

This is an excellent point. Some of us have a darker sense of humor and that can affect the way we perceive the film.

[@TheSilliestWilly]

I think you nailed it when you said that the story could have been about any random dude. I would not be surprised at all if this was a fully fledged screenplay about a random guy suffering from mental illness, who is neglected and mistreated by society, and eventually snaps. It seemed to me like the connection to the Batman universe was kind of shoehorned in. I think the filmmaker didn't want to really make a superhero movie but needed to sell it as a superhero movie for the studio to green light it.

[@ziggygunz2447]

Unpopular Opinion: Joker was better than King of Comedy 😁

[@teagangraybill8160]

I loved this movie. When I saw it in theaters, there was a group of people next to me who were laughing at the characters misfortune instead of being sympathetic, and they left halfway through when they got uncomfortable because no one else saw it as a comedy show. Just, ya know, awful people being awful.

[@teagangraybill8160]

To clarify, this was in the beginning. The group was laughing at him being beaten up in the opening scene. The joker is a bad person, at the end of the day. That doesn’t mean that we can’t be sympathetic to him in the beginning of the movie.

[@TheSugarRay]

Why does everyone discount the hangover guy? I remember watching a thing about how Hangover 2 and 3 are deconstructions of the first movie and their audience.

[@someonerandom8552]

Art has been “crumbling society” since the era of ancient Greco/Roman philosophers. Give me a break. That said, I think there is a definite discussion to be had around how much charisma a talented actor can bring to a villainous performance and how that can affect audience reactions, which I find to be rather interesting. Other than that, there are honestly far more scandalous happenings in the western literary canon than fucking Joker. (And I say that as someone who loves the movie dearly.)

[@atiqahdiyana5665]

I agree with you so much about the Wayne subplot. I didn’t really like the movie as a whole anyway because I thought it was cliche, unoriginal and just doesn’t really reflect the nature of the joker in any way that was new or interesting But the Wayne subplot pissed me off severely and just ruined the whole movie for me. It was completely unwatchable to me. Not just because they assassinated Thomas Wayne’s character for a cheap plot twist and poor attempt at some kind of capitalists=bad themes, but also cause it’s an incredibly common and lazy trope where you take away the depth of one character to make another sympathetic. The movie was a huge disappointment for me and the only DC movie I consider worse is Birds of prey

[@TheChileanMapuche]

I feel like this was a great journey to the darkest parts of the mind. I love how there are points where it seems how it seemed as though much of what happens is a figment of Joker's imagination

[@eleftheriak.8889]

I think at the end Todd did leave it slightly open. Like If someone tells me they think it never happened and that that is a Canon possibility I would agree

[@thebrideofghostface]

I love this movie a lot (just for context, I don't like superhero/villain/action type movies, so I am looking at this in a stand alone movie type way), and what I had heard a lot online is that it 'justifies people doing awful things'. That is so not true. Many other movies do this. Pretty much any murderer or whatever have you in real life has some kind of bad things that led them to some kind of breaking point and that movie just uses it to explain his behavior rather than justify it (although yes, some people who love this movie try to justify his behavior?). The thing that this movie does so well, in my opinion, is make you root for him even after he does despicable things. Partially because it's a movie and you know it's not real, but also because I feel like he is likeable, seems like he could be a real person, and bad things have happened to him, and you see that break down/breaking point thing which is really interesting. And idk, I thought the whole idea of him having followers and stuff really interesting, especially considering there are weird people who justify the jokers actions in real life.

[@cryptid-king]

The thing that bothers me about the movie is people idolizing the joker shooting the talkshow host and shit

[@point-bl4nk]

yo, Italian here. About Marriage Story. one simple reaseon: 0 Ads, 0 coverage, nothing. Not on youtube, tv or anywhere else. And no, awards don't mean s to us, nominations even less. We have like 3 movie festivals and they're all pretentious af. Networks only mention them only when it's time to say _"Ehi look, this famous actor who did that movie 20 years ago, and look that other actress with a dress that barely covers her"_ and that's that. And if we don't know a movie even exists, we can't go see it. So yeah you might want to redirect your question to the publishers.

[@JasonXBeats]

That little kid joker is touching is Robert Pattinson

[@ckline5486]

Amanda, this was a brilliant, wonderfully descriptive review. You have really grown into an elegant film critic. This made me even more interested in the film. I skipped the spoiler part, because I haven't seen it yet, but I will come back after I have to hear the rest. I was impressed by how rich this review was in language and tone. Thank you for this.

[@captawesome42]

Joker is a difficult character because his charisma is always fighting against his atrocities and some people just get taken in by charisma no matter what the person is doing or saying. their brains just shut off to context entirely

[@captawesome42]

look at how many people glorify the obviously abusive and unhealthy relationship between Joker/Harley Quinn. I've seen way too many people wishing they had a relationship like theirs or just completely missing how horrible it is just because they are two charismatic characters

[@lakerstekkenn]

If people are talking about this movie like this, this means it's a dame great movie, that's doing it's job, MAKING PEOPLE THINK.

[@pokeygorilla9368]

You missed the point that the Joker as a character is a nihilist. He got hurt so much that spreading it around becomes hilarious. The Joker does not really give a fuck. Can't wait to see this on Friday

[@EDDIELANE]

Not sure why exactly but Arthur didn’t become unpalatable to me. Even at the end when he kills that big clown who was mean to him, he let the little clown go and there was a crude moral code there. When he kills the talkshow host it’s I totally cheered because to me, it was the Joker stepping into his role. The director didn’t make Arthur morally reprehensable enough.