YOUR GAMES | Game Design Feedback

[@JonasTyroller]

Feedbacking games that are already pretty great is hard but I like the challenge, haha. Hope some of what I said makes sense at least. Enjoy!

[@theothetorch8016]

It definitely makes sense.

[@TheHive95]

Dude, you put so much effort and consideration into this. Great job.

[@LevyMorFit]

I feel like these types of videos would be better done on small games made by 1 developer, not on games made by a whole team

[@IdunInteractive]

Thank you for those kind words @JonasTyroller. Love the video btw and great feedback! I will do some tests to see if I can implement your suggestion, or at least find some other solution to address the issue you brought up.

[@patrickvad5310]

Hey Jonas! How did you make the water in Thronefall??? Could you make a guide at some point? :O

[@axolotlstarvaders]

Hey Jonas!! Im the lead designer for StarVaders Thanks so much for taking a look at our game haha, i didnt expect it! Glad you really enjoyed it! Your feedback is totally real. My god are you correct with how hard it is to make a trailer for it lmao, it took us like multiple weeks of back and forth with our trailer editor to really nail it down. We're kinda hoping that word of mouth will help us long term for marketing haha, just focusing on making the game as good as possible, get the demo in as many hands as possible. But yeah, I think we're gonna be working on some invaders and bosses with more visual flair too for the future! thanks again, cheers!

[@CJ-mr8dn]

should've used the power of the dark side

[@joshhorner2392]

I can tell you that when I first saw the game online somewhere. I immediately went to steam and downloaded the demo because it just looked like a game with interesting decisions. I didn't even consider the size of the board 😜

[@contentatogames]

I can empathize. I was in the same boat - game seemingly fun to play, but not very much pizazz you could stick up on a trailer. Yours looks pretty great though! Cheers :D

[@_skorme]

Game looks great and I hope your strategie works out. Maybe a big KZbinr/Streamer will play it and will spread the word. Are you planing to release this game on the Switch? Looks like a perfect game for the Handheld/Nintendo market.

[@Dakta96]

Why not have a giant boss on one side either spawning ennemies, making some of the tiles dangerous etc. If you make it visually distinct it could look stunning in a trailer!

[@smallbag123]

It's nice of you, as a professional game dev, to help smaller ones with feedback. Thank you :)

[@JonasTyroller]

I try. :D

[@ksunoma]

Heeey, Blessed Burden level designer here 👋 Thanks a lot for your feedback, it inspires us to keep going and make our game better! We`ll take into account all your comments, everything you`ve said makes sence 🖤

[@bibanez135]

Be honest... Ultrakill was an inspiration right? It's a hell of an inspiration though, I loved it!

[@theConcernedWyvern]

Your game looks amazing! I'm so excited to see what you do with it!

[@clay112]

As a speedrunner the game looks very cool, i think if the movement was more varied that would be awesome

[@NolenGYT]

Where are all your subs!?? Lemme fix that. Love the game.

[@malibaturhan]

I do not think we need explore. I really miss linear action

[@warrenhenning8064]

This is a very good example of how to give good constructive criticism. It provides actionable feedback on how to actually make the games better while acknowledging the things they do well.

[@josephplayspickleball]

Great detailed feedback on these games is not just helpful to the creators, but Jonas finds a way to teach all of us so well with principles that can be applied to all of us viewers. Thank you Jonas for the great content you put out.

[@soviut303]

In the 2nd game (IDUN) a possible counter to clumping would be an overheating mechanic. The objectives and the turrets could produces different amounts of heat in a radius. Clumping them too closely around each other causes them to overheat more quickly. This could also be worked into the enemy behaviour with them seeking out the hottest points (the objectives) and only sometimes attacking turrets if they're too clumped.

[@IdunInteractive]

Love this idea. Thank you @soviut303. The game already has a temperature system, where enemies run faster but are weaker when hot. So the pathfinding actually already prefers warm areas. It would be interesting to also make this temperature simulation affect turrets.

[@daylinroper5286]

​@@IdunInteractive expanding on this idea, perhaps the overheat/heat level could affect turret/mining speeds instead, encouraging but not forcing players to spread out turrets? It could also lead to some interesting "challenge" levels/maps designed to intentionally cause issues like that. It sounds like a good way to potentially increase the skill ceiling for experienced players, and also keep the skill floor low for new players. Regardless of where you take it, you should be proud of the gem you've made. Well done

[@skylark.kraken]

Eh, you'll still just clump them just more spaced. It doesn't change how you play, just the density

[@Spacemarine658]

I think for IDUN what would help would be turrets flying up and over to their next location so it takes time and maybe turrets take a second or two to start firing again it would make moving them more costly

[@Atropos148]

yeah, that is how turrets work in Creeper World 4 and it makes it a much bigger choice when you are moving them. Instant teleport should be a very limited resource, so you only use it as last resort.

[@belgarathlesorcier8385]

Yeah I would personally make the turrets slow to move, but maybe give the heroes a jetpack to be able to jump rapidly from one place to the other, to compensate the slow turret movement. So I think the developer should turn around the balance: numerous but slow turrets, and few but very fast heroes

[@estrico6298]

For IDUN, the terrain could have glowing crystal rock formation acting as both elevation, mining ressource and turret booster. Said crystal should be required to build turrets and individual turrets could be placed on chunks of them to improve their fire power. This would insentivise more strategic planings and as the game progress the player could be thrown into a conundrum of either mining the crystal the turrets currently use or risk their life mining further across the map.

[@truc_e]

The skill floor is not necessarily where beginners are. The skill floor is the minimum skill required to play the game to a functional level. A game could have a really high skill floor meaning it is very hard for new players to get to that level. In this case the skill floor would be above the beginners skill level.

[@ezgarrth4555]

Couldn't agree more about treating audio the same way you treat lighting. A lot of ways to run with that. With acoustic spaces, you could have different locations playing the same sound make it sound different, reflecting the way it should sound in that place, which is normally a realism thing, but also adds variety. There's some development towards acoustic path tracing, which is like an auditory equivalent of raytracing, where materials have properties for how they reflect sound, that are then used to build acoustic spaces, but I don't know if that's ready for games yet; I just think it's very neat

[@kevinscales]

Similar ideas can be implemented in more or less sophisticated ways, from literally just changing which sound files play depending where you are standing to calculating distances (and maybe angles) of different materials around the player to adjust the effects applied to sounds, to doing a full on physical simulation of sound propagation (and probably baking in the results of that into a grid in the level so it is just a lookup table with smoothing of the results over time as you move). Obviously if you want the path from the origin of the sound (that dynamically moves around the level) to the player to properly effect the sound realistically, you will have to do some real-time calculations, but that is maybe a little more sophisticated than necessary to add audio variety to a cheap indie game that isn't going for ultra realism and probably doesn't have much in the way of sophisticated enemy combat that requires players to figure out where something is based on sound. The simplest solution that does what you need is always the correct answer. StarCitizen did a cool video on how they make the environment around the player effect sounds.

[@BernhardVoogenberger-tl5ox]

I like the floating text tutorial!

[@JonasTyroller]

Fair enough.

[@BernhardVoogenberger-tl5ox]

I also like (love) your feedback videos!

[@Squidmoto3]

For the second game I think the better solution is having turrets like/dislike being near eachother. Like Turret A does 10% more damage for every Turret B near it, but Turret B does 10% less damage for every Turret C near it. It makes placing them like a puzzle. And then also some places you can put them they should just be safe - like on top of a rock where the enemies can't reach, or only flying ones can. I feel like Bloons TD6 is a great place to look for inspiration from one of the best TD games ever made too.

[@solindiegames1999]

I love this series. So helpful for devs even if their game isn't featured...there are still so many great tips to be had! Thanks so much Jonas 🥰

[@DesignFrameCaseStudies]

It's very cool that you do this for your community! I'm starting to dabble in game design consulting myself (currently in early days as I revamp the current website, including free resources!), but I just love helping indie games, and I love how a series like this actually gets good views! 😄

[@advrakshachaudhari3699]

Wow, as a beginner game dev, i got to learn so many things about game design and overall thinking. Thank you so much for this video.

[@galvinvoltag]

For the second game: Maybe they could add a bit of delay to the Orbital Minigun to make the player think the next few seconds rather than only the present? They also can add some electrical based turrets? Maybe it is more effective towards closely based enemies cuz it chains between close ones? Oh oh, imagine an enemy type that has gasoline blood! You could set it in fire to create temporary barriers!! Just some ideas I had while watching the trailer, had to write it down. The game looks amazing btw, fr fr!

[@IdunInteractive]

Thank you @galvinvoltag, those are some sweet ideas! The reason the SkyGun is so fast is so the player can feel the power at their fingertips. I already have electric tower / weapons in the my backlog, will probably be added post launch. Spreading fires and oil too, but that is for the next game. : )

[@babylumberjack]

I'm loving these design feedback videos, Jonas! It's fascinating to see that even polished, great-looking games can find areas for improvement. The feedback is excellent and will really help the devs. Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to help us small indie devs!

[@MiloticMaster]

This series is soo cool, game dev on one side and amazing indies on the other. As much as I wish you could do this as a full-time series, I understand you've got your own game to work on as well!

[@OxAA00]

I really love this format. It's actually so cool that you take the time to do color correction and really think about game feel and possible improvements! I bet this takes a boatload of time to prepare. Thanks for making cool videos. Beste gruesse von einem fellow GameDev aus Berlin :)

[@nick-brooking]

Once again thanks for an amazing video! I really appreciate how much effort you go to demonstrating your suggestions and ideas, not just talking about them.

[@manskracht]

This is reeally good feedback. I hope the devs take it to heart. Also very fun and educational to watch as an aspiring indie dev. I hope you do more of these!

[@Baekstrom]

IDUN looks great. It's the kind of game you consider playing just because of the looks of it. If it plays half as well as it looks, it deserves to become a hit.

[@mortalvoidstudios]

Bravo with this Jonas! One of our fave series for game developers! You have some good points and hope the devs think about those things going forward. The last two do not need much adjustments to be successful. If they follow your advice and pay attention to just a few more smaller details they have a chance of really becoming hits! Excited for their team/s.

[@okay_cam]

Really enjoyed the video! I think the things you pointed out for Blessed Burden were very interesting, especially about complementing the visual variety with acoustic variety - thats not something I had thought about much before. Excited to see more of your content!

[@drewstillwell]

Really liking this series and the obvious time and attention you're putting into your feedback, thank you!

[@PaulPlay]

I love that you are making more of these videos🙌 My fav series on the channel

[@arnauadell4824]

A thick german accent saying "I don't think this is the final solution" was really what I needed to start my day on the right track (loved the video)

[@bjenssen]

These videos are great, it's nice to see how different games require very different feedback. Very educational :)

[@karatturmenko1]

thank you for such detailed feedback about Blessed Burden!

[@skibbl_dev]

pointing out way more positives isn't really a bad thing... Its still really helpful to think about things I would like to do in my games.

[@r.g.thesecond]

8:52 No PLEASE No more bloom! I'd personally recommend a little emission variation instead. (similar to real-life flow of lava) Bloom is overdone, and without HDR it looks bad.

[@miachristensen5444]

Dude Star vaders is such a nice looking/feeling game, its so Northernlion-core that i can only imagine it being VERY useful in the marketing compartment

[@AF-lt2fr]

Good feedback. Game 1 - it's crying out for a bhop mechanic. Routes that are wide and slow (but reachable via normal sprint and jump) vs trickier paths that can only be achieved via optimal movement. CS gives you extra distance from crouch jumping, or doom with strafing etc. There's definitely ways to make it better and more epic without having to rely on ramps for momentum. The criticism of the sound was fair - I don't necessarily think silence is right - sometimes noise and fear of the unknown / ominous sounds can have an impact too. Limiting sounds to zones / areas and a bigger variety matching the surfaces is important. Game 2. This game looked a bit too chaotic - one criticism from the proposed change is I think that would result in the same clustering which was the main criticisim. One way to improve this would be to have some cost to move turrets. Or some 'bonus' for killing at distances away from the objective. There seemed to be little skill in the turret placement - perhaps less enemies, or more tanky ones that spawn at intervals. Game 3. This game looked ok - the player grid seemed quite small and it wasn't obvious what the movement vs attack cost was. Also enemies advancing didn't look like they were predicable - but I didn't play ultra close attention to this. I'm not the biggest rogue like / deck building fan - but it looked unique enough.

[@Betruet]

Great Video Jonas, kind of you to give input to these nice looking games!

[@lejocarry]

Wow so much work too help devs and really interesting feedbacks ! ♥

[@FawnFiona432]

Love your videos. I like watching your feedback on other games, it can also help with the process of making my own game

[@NKCubed]

gotta be my fav series you're doing!

[@ThinkWithGames]

Just so you know, it appears the chapters are not recognized when there are other lines separating them (like the steam and twitter links). Keep the feedback videos coming!

[@buzzmandev4017]

The chapters are showing for me

[@PhoenixRemastered18]

JONAS IS BACK LET"S GOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

[@pabloferro2872]

Amazing video. Great advices, I would never have thought of it.

[@stellanovaluna]

YAY NEW JONAS VIDEO

[@adnanebadi3798]

This is gold for both those whose game got picked... and for the others too!

[@snorlaxhd4677]

These were some amazing games and you still had so much feedback, I literally have no shot😭Time for a backup plan💀

[@JonasTyroller]

A backup plan is definitely great to have but don't give up so easily. The more games you make the easier it gets.

[@snorlaxhd4677]

​@@JonasTyroller Jonas you are so kind and amazing, and even though I joke that I have no shot, you actually inspire everyone to not only make great games, but to create things that are special, keep doing what you are doing, and thank you.

[@soviut303]

For the first game (Blessed Burden) I think having a "crouch slide" mechanic that builds momentum would be a great way to raise the skill ceiling. By jumping into crouch in a rhythm you could effectively "skate", like some of the faster characters in Quake Champions.

[@Salted_Potato]

Never miss a Jonas video. 100% excellent rate

[@tiagotiagot]

That first game looks exactly like the type of game where you would have things like those crazy mouse swing jumping momentum tricks like from Quake and other games derived from that engine (like the Half-Life and Portal series for example); and things like those surfing glitches by doing arcs on inclines like those Counter Strike surfing maps, and stuff like that.

[@mmmnn1324]

I'm a big tower defense fan and I put IDUN straight on my wish list. The game looks super cool

[@ivyjuicegames]

I really like your feedback videos! :D

[@Agshsdbfn-uv7lg]

Wow you realy put in time to give extremly helpful tips.

[@Vulpixon732]

For IDUN game, making different enemies that have different targeting priororities (Turrets/Objective) is a good suggestion as such small change already gives variety in enemies, not making them feel the same. Regarding the strategy of placing all turrets around objective, there is a solution for that, that would increase enemy variety as well: AoE damaging enemies These should be in small amounts during waves but packing enough of a punch to be able to counter that strategy, while at the same time promoting more strategic placement and proactive gameplay. Good example of enemy variety for this type of game is Dungeon of the Endlees in my opinion, even though most enemies work the same, the variety in their attacks and single unique enemies with unique action sets cause the enemies to feel not repetetive and force adapting the player to the situation.

[@barbagrossa]

This is a great video and feedback was amazing! I loved this type od video, pleqse make more

[@acalebm]

The legend has returned

[@vvvorlds]

About Idun, for me it feels visually overwhelming. Particularly the rocks at first look like a swarm of something. Second, everything is over saturated. It’s a question of taste but beadability is important. It’s also a try and error process. I think Gmtk have an episode on this. In your case it could be the question of just tuning the color and reworking a couple of assets/textures. All games are really great by the way. @Star Vaders, for the marketing.. Maybe some animated cut scenes in the trailer? Like in Brawl Stars marketing, or Advance Wars trailer.

[@LavroseRovender]

I’m not a gamedev and don’t wanna be but I love watching this !! ♥️

[@tealbaron2808]

i played a demo of starvaders a year or two ago and rly liked it! glad you agreed :D

[@Some_Dev_Guy]

video: gives feedback on some games me, who hasn't even gotten to the game making part of the game making: "Interesting"

[@shpleemcgert]

Good video. Good feedback. Well done!!

[@liondoesthings927]

Guess who’s back? Back again?

[@terminal_2495]

Tyroller's back. tell a friend. Guess who's back? Guess who's back? Guess who's back?

[@theothetorch8016]

Watching this video made me think several times: He's making a point here!

[@FrostDrive]

8:53 "and I added a lil bit o fuck in the distance"😂

[@bigfin20]

these vids are always great

[@AoiEgg]

I can see you really enjoy this episode!!

[@brian-tria]

IDUN seems like a good treatment for my There are Billions itch.

[@jeremiahrosa1329]

Idk what you mean, that star vaders games seems very fun to me from what you’ve shown (and the trailer)

[@BucketmanAnimations]

This is SO AWESOME!

[@ekzac]

16:46 and before, you are basically describing MarZ, I see every decision in that game. And I must say I liked it very much. There are some negative reviews and the overall design did not call my attention at first, but it is a good.

[@maxentityita]

2:11 why did this game gave ame a shiver

[@nischalthapa2460]

omg I remember playing and writing reviews for starvaders from gameround

[@jack5590]

These are really good.

[@_GhostMiner]

*5:30** but what meme is this a template for?* 🤔

[@an9l1c1sm6]

YESSSSSSSSSSS! ANOTHER VIDEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@jonnymo_13]

yes!!! nice vid bro

[@typothetical]

I feel like the first game would do very well with wallrunning or at least some shady knight level movement

[@tiagotiagot]

Perhaps the gameplay trailer for the Star Vaders could ditch the fixed camera and zoom in and frame on where things are being done and swing to the consequences, chasing the cursor as the player makes decisions and stuff like that; taking just a bit of artistic liberty without straying too far from honest gameplay footage, and perhaps have some oldschool Batman "POW" style text popping over less relevant areas naming what's the cool thing that's happening at the moment in the highlighted areas?

[@skylark.kraken]

For a parkour game it feels like ground and air control should be the same, not even just a decreasing effectiveness; for more realistic games, sure, decrease it

[@LogicStudios_1]

Great video as always Jonas. Just wondering, are you working on a new game yet?

[@TheVisualDigitalArts]

Why am I not subscribed ?well o I’m subbed now.

[@DartWizard8601]

Will there be videos on your old channel again at some point? I really liked the German Game Maker videos (unfortunately there aren't that many German Game Maker tutorials)

[@AxoTheGamer]

Is will you snail getting any updates or no

[@ThatMagicGuy01]

Hey jonas, Ive always wanted to be a game developer, and I’ve always looked up to you, and now, i’m ready to make my game, but before that, I would like an answer to one question. Where do I start? I started watching your will you snail videos in 2022, so i don’t know the full story, but sense will you snail has inspired me so much, It was an awesome game, so, I have the full idea for my game, I just don’t really know where to start, so I would like to have feedback from a real game dev. Thank you :D

[@Graviti809]

i wanna buy star vaders!

[@marcboss]

You should do it more often

[@phoenix-heartentertainment7293]

I totally agree with everyone else! Thank you! Im trying to make one myself action adventure rpg but my programmer walked away and took the combat system. Devastated hoping to find a programmer soon so we can finish. We have most the scripts and mechanics but need to be finished. If you kniw anyone okease let me know. If you can, give your opinion i would appreciate it that as well. Thank you

[@arbainrahat4578]

IDUN used job system for this performance.

[@IdunInteractive]

Yes I did, but not ECS. It wasn't ready when I started working on the game.

[@me1ne]

Servus! Bist du mit der gymnasialen Kunstlehrerin Fr. Tyroller ausm schönen Niederbayern verwandt?

[@stoik-aa]

bro got the dominic thiem voice

[@LiamDoubleU]

IDUN seems to use AI voice acting which im not the biggest fan of

[@JonasTyroller]

I agree. I did not like it that much, either. The reasons I did not mention it in the video: 1) Often times AI voice acting is used as a placeholder so it's easier to imagine the finished product during development. Could be the case here. 2) In case there is not enough budget for real voice actors, from a player perspective I'd still prefer this over no voice acting at all. 3) I don't think story is what people will play this for anyways. Don't really care if the story sucks (it kinda did to be honest / did not catch my attention).

[@stuhl1941]

there are more alternatives besides "no sound, AI voice acting, real voice acting" there always could be text sounds like un animal crossing or undertale (a story driven game). TTS also exists. AI is the lazy "solution" to a non-issue, and in worst case its not with permission person behind the voice. and if you have the choice between this or no voice, no voice would be better. Generative AI is the worst that has happend to us as a species in the last years.

[@LiamDoubleU]

@stuhl1941 I agree that many choices can be made for a more stylised approach or even just some mediocre voice acting for the demo. The AI just puts doubt in my mind about the product and the developers, hope they change it and AI isn't used for anything else.

[@PhoniexStudio]

​@stuhl1941 imo I think a traditional text (like undertale) would be better suited for it.

[@stickguy9109]

​@@stuhl1941 I tend to disagree with people who are so openly against AI but lately corporations have been shoehorning it to so many places and they're so in your face that even hearing the word AI makes me feel grossed out. So yeah I agree I would much prefer if it was text only.

[@watercat1248]

The last one it rimadnsmy the battle system off megaman battle network

[@nerdtime7657]

Nice

[@deerymaslo]

FINALLY NEW VIDEO

[@quelfth4413]

I strongly disagree that [W] -> [Space] is roughly the same as [Space] -> [W]. I'm not saying this is true for everyone, but for me, the most interesting kind of mechanical complexity is when it's less to do with timing and more to do with the ordering of input presses and releases. So it's very fun when these kinds of differences result in wildly different outcomes. Yes it's initially confusing before you understand what's happening, but that's what makes it so rewarding to figure it out.

[@kapcapkapcap6104]

2:02

[@MoraesMusician]

11:30 instantly don't want to play this lol

[@singularityraptor4022]

You are a chad

[@thursday_concerns]

Comment for engagements sake

[@emberchord]

Wwwwwischurly showing us

[@knight_lautrec_of_carim]

ERSTER!

[@JD2jr.]

"I could keep nitpicking to extend the video"... these aren't the *only* 3 games you played, are they? Assuming not, you might pick a few not great games (who are still obviously trying and not asset flips) to sprinkle in between the great ones and give one or two bits of constructive criticism, might have to juggle people being disappointed at not getting such in depth advice, but it could give them motivation to improve and resubmit (and if they have decent concepts give viewers more things to comment on, trying to get you to revisit the less polished stuff in the future).

[@AlvinAndTheChipmunks4]

You kinda look like Christopher Nolan