Jonathan Blow: Design Reboot

November 27th 2007
braid-game.com/...
topics:
What Can Games Provide?
Architecting vs. Exploring
Listening Skills
links to things mentioned:
www.nytimes.com...
www.amazon.com/...
www.amazon.com/...
www.everydaysho...
www.rodvik.com/...
www.clicknothin...
www.quartertoth...

[@shastabolicious]

Thanks for matching the slides to the audio and uploading. This is a great talk.

[@soulstudiosmusic]

Man, thought the audio was crap till I heard the original - you did a great job!!! :)

[@Mikesapien]

The notion that game rewards behave like drugs/food has to be one of the most useful metaphors about game design that I've ever heard.

[@gordo6908]

How prophetic given this was over a decade ago. The GDC talks titled The Design of Time and The Gamer's Brain seem like great companions to this talk.

[@matthewbowers9180]

I'm so fucking inspired right now

[@garfocusalternate]

"As game designers, we don't understand food. We don't really know how to make food, and so we often resort to drugs." Y'know, taken out of context ...

[@mattmorgan-moriarty4445]

Nah, it's accurate out of context *puts down pipe*

[@MidnightSt]

Books: Tell. Movies: Show, don't tell. Games: (Enable/Make player) do, don't show.

[@Jotto999]

So what kind of games can I find now? I'll try Myst, and I already played Braid (loved it). Skyrim seems more nonlinear than Obvlivion, so it'll be a better candidate right?

[@EDcaseNO]

That's fine, I understood where you were coming from and i can see your point. I agree with your sentiment and probably came off as a bit of an ass with my replies. You just interpreted his statement differently to me. [and to be fair probably more accurately] Thanks for actually taking the time to try to get your point across... although.. he didn't actually say you had to be an adult to appreciate Jonathan's ideas. =P I think i was being a bit pedantic with my 1st reply.

[@nottellinganyoneanything]

I learned in WoW: cooperation, English, and that it is really bad to not take things in moderation.

[@EDcaseNO]

i had seen the comment you were replying to. i don't think either of those points were implied =]

[@tatoforever]

Really, This should be sticky somewhere for future game developers.

[@ddd1234ify]

I think I agree entirely with everything this man says. Save for what he says about BioShock but... TO AN EXTENT. What he says IS true for the most part. But it's still one of my favorite games. It's just that it's more like an interactive artwork than a GAME I suppose.

[@mescellaneous]

there are only a few people who embody "the unexamined life is not worth living"

[@DoisKoh]

Excellent

[@Efim141]

The difference between emergent circumstances and deliberate sadism is the difference between Dark Souls and Dark Souls 2.

[@samfortunato]

well if you categorize games as an art form in the same way music, movies and other mediums are art forms... intellectually stimulating and even intellectually challenging work is out there. many books are layered with metaphors and hidden meanings or thoughtful musings on life, and theres some music out there that you might only enjoy (or just enjoy even more) if you had a high level of musical proficiency (certain progressive music/jazz or classical for example). sure people might (cont. ^)

[@samfortunato]

(cont.) still want that instant kick of more "simple" or "accessible" like a goofy comedy or just a straight up loud dance song (neither of which are bad per se), but just because a lot of people only (or just most of the time) want simple and easy to understand doesnt mean nobody enjoys something that is complex and stimulates the more brainy parts of yourself. tons of people still enjoy shakespeare or mozart, and some might only like MTV or teen mom. or some might enjoy both. people are varied

[@EDcaseNO]

Yeah, of everything we could be talking about from this presentation. My second response to you I wish i could retract. I'd finally found where the inbox was for youtube replies and started to type when my friend started harassing me to start a game of dota2. So i just rushed it, both of your points were implied and I had known that beforehand but in the rush and since it had been so long since I'd first responded... anyway, my bad. =] good morning and game on.

[@rubbermuck]

@grthwllms search for "A moment with Jon Blow".

[@taloketo]

Jon Blow is a true genious. This video is mind-expanding and I think he's right at everything he says here. Games shouldn't be a waste of time. I shouldn't feel bad for playing them. You can actually hear an ambient dubstep track on the silent moments of the video.

[@TheApatheticGuy]

Right.

[@rubbermuck]

@thomtropez i didn't either.

[@Gnurklesquimp]

I don't really know what to think of the political side of topics like these but personally I hate playing games that aren't engaging activities in and of themselves. I personally think it's the number-one issue in the game industry, I will give some examples but don't expect it to give you anywhere near a complete picture of the scope of the issue.. Short version: Basically, yeah worlds and stories where you have some agency are cool and that's seriously an amazing thing that games can do, but even games focusing on that could learn from games like Chess and be MUCH better for everyone because of it. Combat, or whatever activity it'd be, can be more than just a means to express your character in a cool way. So I should start out with that there's absolutely nothing wrong with focusing on other things at all, but it's like the actual GAME part of the game is too often just discarded. ''Ohh, we can involve the consumer? Let's have them press buttons when it's obvious they need to!'' That's not entirely fair though, I think allowing you to personalize a character as part of a world or story and to have an impact on those is amazing! That's a good reason to not let class building be the deciding factor for playing well, but there's kind of a few activities in between, maybe don't have those be boring grinds? I understand how things like rpg's introduce so many parts that it's often hard to balance a game so that it functions properly, but that doesn't mean you just go ''well, fuck it I guess''. And yes, THAT is what it feels like when I'm playing Skyrim spamming a calm spell, whacking the R button and pausing the game every 10 seconds to refill magicka for 5 minutes. THAT is what it feels like when I stand on top of a rock pelting arrows at a sabercat who's pathing just can't handle it. Even the basic dynamics don't end up being anything engaging, these moments where you're allowed to make meaningful tactical decisions in battle that are interesting only present themselves SO seldom, and they feel accidental on the developer's part. The combat feels like it's only a means by which we can express our character in a cool way, making the activity fun in and of itself will only make it better, right? This is not a dig at Skyrim or whatever, it does the things that it is primarily about very well for the players it does that for, it involves design that is very impressive.

[@AlexMorellon]

yeah right ?!

[@amateurdude]

Right

[@FoundationsofPause]

This guy is a saint in an otherwise bleak and disappointing generation.

[@authentic6825]

41:11 "Eventually I gave up and I murdered him. What else are you gonna do?"

[@Outshinedsg]

I think that Jon has expressed a very noble point of view in this lecture, but I wonder if he isn't being too optimistic. I watch videos where players struggle to solve even rudimentary puzzles involving spatial visualization or moving blocks. Ask them to solve something intellectually challenging, and the game would lose a substantial portion of it's audience. Game developers can't stay in business without selling games, so it is difficult to ever imagine simplistic games being less common.

[@Jojoateyt]

What about designing games that offer challenge for you to do better and reward it, while not necessarily demanding it?

[@Shendue]

This doesn't mean i don't respect his opinions as a game developer, but as smart and talented as he is, i consider myself smart enough on my part not to take anything someone tell me as the absolute truth just because it's well spoken. I think he's right on many things, but some are debateable. I loved Braid, tho. The storytelling in that game is freaking amazing.

[@sergesolkatt]

HARDCORE

[@Mikesapien]

I really love this talk, but Blow hasn't convinced me as far as Bioshock is concerned. I feel like he has missed the game's central messages and is oversimplifying the experience.

[@MsBickle76]

38:35

[@EDcaseNO]

nobody said you needed to be.

[@camp7203]

Smash TV was fair??? That game was a quarter sucking nightmare!

[@DanielGilchristYT]

Never played the game but I do get the addictive vibe from it! might emulate it sometime. I can tell your comment is probably not serious but just for clarity, he didn't say the game was fair overall, just the part about getting killed at the bottom section of screen where you can't see what's going on.. Even though the threats are obfuscated, you are well aware of that fact during your playthrough. Actually, the obfuscation IS the threat in a sense, which is inherently fair since you know about it.

[@MsBickle76]

0:38:35

[@Seryosin]

yes. Q_Q YOU MONSTER!!!1

[@MsBickle76]

38:00 38:35

[@Shendue]

Actually i was relieved and amused by destroying it. I don't care at all about an inanimated object. If caring about an inanimated object is more human then caring about a little child (i know they are both a bunch of pixels, but i'm implying in-game context here) then Blow may be right. I think it's the other way around, tho. He is implying that not caring about homicidal monsters is weird and caring about a box with a heart painted on is, which sounds silly to me.

[@davidt0504]

"The first step was not Halo 3" Agreed, I believe that games like Mass Effect, Deus Ex, or the Witcher are though.

[@nicha112]

>november '07

[@shitheadjohnson2797]

design reboot:: the answer to all problems today is. -> MORE AI IN VIDEO GAMES.

[@nicholasharris2108]

Halo 3 is better than The Witness.

[@gerardborrull]

+Nicholas Harris Aww.

[@firesoul453]

Halo is like Pop music. Meant to appeal to as many people as possible.

[@Gnurklesquimp]

@firesoul453 I can't argue with that, it's simply true that Halo's design was influenced A LOT more by money than the witness. However, Halo actually kind of worked out to be something amazingly intricate to people who did take it very serious :D I should point out I don't believe there's something wrong with not having a ''developed taste'' when it comes to any art form (and I don't see why taste development can't go deeper into a direction that happens to be popular) but I think it's important to note that even things that try to create a shallow experience for the masses can end up being more than that, so you shouldn't judge the consumer too quickly. Again, not that I think negative judgement should be passed either way.

[@freindmaker4473]

love halo but NAHHHH jonathan and thelka made a masterpiece