Hope for the Future and the Religion of the Apostles | with Fr. Stephen De Young

[@frandrewstephendamick]

Thanks for this, Jonathan. We are very happy to be in this alliance against nihilism.

[@ChristIsKingPhilosophy]

An alliance once existed between Elves and Men. Long ago we fought and died together. We come to honor that allegiance.

[@frandrewstephendamick]

@@ChristIsKingPhilosophy That line (and that scene) isn't even in the book, but it still gets me right in the Numenorean feelz.

[@ChristIsKingPhilosophy]

@@frandrewstephendamick Poor Haldir haha. Yeah, me too. Father, I want to ask your advice on something, can I have your e-mail?

[@Keeronin]

@@ChristIsKingPhilosophy reach him on the Lord of Sprits Facebook page, and that’ll be a better way to contact him if he’s interested

[@jackkeoseyan7395]

@@frandrewstephendamick YES! I have some problems with the scene (especially that it sort of diminishes the grit of the victory of Rohan, and also the fact that the Last Alliance is no longer the Last Alliance), but cinematically it is so glorious.

[@vanessaday258]

I’m one of those who would keep listening without really “getting it” but gradually the lights came on.

[@06rtm]

Same. I understood just enough to keep me going.

[@ChristIsKingPhilosophy]

Yeah, me too. I think it has its benefits and its drawbacks. Like I wish Jonathan was a bit more systematic, or at least pedagogic, but I really used this. I prefer this over Jordan Peterson any day.

[@danielbishop62]

@@ChristIsKingPhilosophy read his brothers book, very systematic

[@kwlester1]

@@danielbishop62 Yes but it needs a sequel!

[@danielbishop62]

@@kwlester1 I heard Jonathan mention he is aiming at writing a book on one of the recent podcasts. I'd love to see it, for somewhat selfish reasons. I need somewhere to point to when people think I'm crazy talking about this stuff!

[@colmwhateveryoulike3240]

As a biologist (ex non denominational Christian) atheist I was baffled as to why so many right wing American Christians were skeptical that there were consequences to failing to fulfil our role as stewards. Now I am Orthodox after encountering God, it's nice to hear this link being made.

[@Christian_Maoist.]

What do you mean by encountering God?

[@maxonmendel5757]

yesss... one of the problems I had with Christianity was hearing Dr. David Jeremiah say on a radio broadcast, "climate change doesn't matter because this world is gonna be destroyed and God will create a new one anyway." thats one moment for me anyway. and learning how green Orthodoxy can be has been encouraging. the high church has it right. 😊

[@W-G]

Yes I also like that they acknowledge the issue but aren't alarmist and nihilistic like secular world. It is damaging our young peoples happiness gratefulness and hope for the future by being so scare mongering about it

[@maxonmendel5757]

@@W-G not being worried about climate change is to be in denial. this is the biggest problem humanity is facing right now

[@TheDonovanMcCormick]

People: what shows do you like? Me: the symbolic world and Lord of Spirits podcast People: who’s in that? Me: I’m glad you asked.

[@CarlosVargas-jz8gl]

There’s something about Fr. Stephen de Young and Jonathan Pageau conversation that is just so satisfying. Hope you guys have more conversations and With Fr. Andrew as well.

[@house0paine535]

I love all the laughter and smiling whilst talking about the most destructive and pervasive elements of reality. Reminds me of Tom Bombadil playing with the ring of doom comedically.

[@SweetPeteUnleashed]

Haha, that's a good analogy 😅

[@06rtm]

The reason I continued listening for two years, despite not really getting it, is because I understood just enough to realize there was treasure at the end of this road. Then every time I re-listened to a podcast, I would catch twice as much as before. Now it all seems so simple, but coming from a materialist background can make symbolism really difficult to wrap your head around.

[@processrauwill7922]

Well put definitely reflective of my own experience. Because I saw Jonathan put things together for me, that made sense I just didn’t understand how he put them together.

[@papercut7141]

It's really weird how easy it all looks in retrospect but I remember being mind blown by the simplest things at the beginning. It makes it that much harder to explain to my materialist friends now lol

[@MarcVeitch]

I bought the book and started reading....it is well written but more importantly, it is fundamentally enlightening. Never thought of Orthodox teaching as being relevant or meaningful.....very relieved to be proven wrong. This is going to be some ride....hopefully I am ready for it.

[@BarbaPamino]

Bless your soul. Welcome!

[@ALLHEART_]

Fr. Stephen De Based.

[@lovethepie]

De Based, yes. Debased, no 😉

[@superpeaceloveunity]

What does Based mean? I keep seeing young people use it and I don’t get it, lol. I’m 38

[@lovethepie]

@superpeaceloveunity Its basically the true version of being "woke". It indicates having a sound understanding of social, political, or in this case religious circumstances as they ACTUALLY are, as opposed to viewing them thru the lens of propaganda.

[@ALLHEART_]

@@lovethepie Couldn't have said it better myself. Yeah, it has the connotation of having a true belief or believes that are counter-cultural or counter to institutional propaganda or popular opinion.

[@ALLHEART_]

@@superpeaceloveunity lol, all good, chief.

[@OrthodoxJourney359]

Michael Heiser had a huge influence on me becoming Orthodox from an ordained Baptist.

[@FREEAGAIN432]

inspiring and revealing on many dimensions. Deep bow Jonathan and Fr. Young. Blessings.

[@Im_No_Expert_72]

Glory to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ ❤️

[@user-di5rm9ee1p]

Orthodox Serb here, just to say I enjoyed this conversation.

[@FirstnameLastname-py3bc]

Ortho Georgian, enjoying watching now, and hello there!

[@AmyMaris]

Your joy, Jonathon, recommends your faith to me.

[@stevenmathews7621]

pretty full statement - "every atheist is dragging around the dead body of the God he doesn't believe in, behind him"

[@fitz3540]

Speaking of Japan, and metallurgy, have you seen/heard of their ritualistic sword making? Even to this day, there are still Master sword makers who forge in a ritualistic process that includes prayers and offerings.

[@omari3545]

what a great discussion.. truly this is at the top of understanding reality, no one else, no other scientist or philosopher has gotten this close to understand the reality we all live in.

[@OneMansOdyssey]

At 47:43, I always think it's interesting when you bring up psychadelics because I think you are totally right that people think they are unlocking some tool to "understand the world" or reach spirituality, but when queried how they have no real understanding. One of my friends who is a proponent of psychadelics will often bring up ayahuasca rituals performed by native Americans, but then when I ask him why never starves and dehydrates himself for 3 days beforehand, or why he never uses datura instead of ayahuasca, or why he doesn't steep himself in the mythology for months before the "ritual", it quickly becomes obvious that the psychadelics are just a cheap, consumerist way to "experience" spirituality or true understanding.

[@theLord_is-my_shepherd]

58:50 Interestingly enough, when you want to weed out a garden one of the ways you can go about it is to put a veil over the ground; the roots and the thorns and the sprouts etc, such that they don’t get any sunlight and water … and after the tares have become soil again you can remake of it a beautiful garden once again. Praise the Lord! Thank you for this conversation and blessed be everyone that carefully tends this garden !

[@younggrasshopper3531]

The harvest is plentiful and the workers are few!

[@theconstructionmonk]

Yes!! Fr. Steven is right. The spiritual realm is moving all around us and integrated into the physical, we simply have turned off our ability to sense and see it, and we truly do need a reawakening to it, although that reawakening is problematic and traumatic to go through. I know this first hand.

[@tedclemens4093]

"Why are you asking me? Just get it from God." Exactly what Paul did his first three years as a believer-and he remained independent thereafter (see Acts and Galatians). The strength of this one-to-one with Christ is what had Paul even correcting one of the esteemed leaders of the Jerusalem church (Peter) over his personal compromises.

[@danrocky2553]

Considering the complexity of the subject matter, it’s an amazingly easy, enlightening and pleasurable read.

[@thecryingshame]

I'm at the end of a story. It's kinda painful but these talks really help organize my thoughts and attention. Thanks!

[@yellowknife8960]

His grace is with you brother…

[@leemartin9579]

I was one of those viewers who had to keep watching for sure, but boy is it worth the knowledge to keep listening. Fantastic show! I have learned so much from this channel since I see him on Jordan Peterson's podcast.

[@MrJustListeningMusic]

'there is a crack in everything. thats how the Light gets in' - Cohen

[@olgakarpushina492]

Yeah, I got that reference too. Have been meaning to ask Pageau about symbolism in Cohen's songs.

[@normadaly7506]

Thank ye both!!!

[@aurelius1964]

This is great stuff. With all the sadness, nihilism, chaos and hardship going in the world it feels as though these kinds of conversations are manifesting in response. Wonderful.

[@edchair3559]

Man Jonathan you bless me so much. I was raised evangelical and have been discovering so much new old information that is so encouraging! We need fellowships of men and families

[@michaeldavidnvitales]

“It’s a cinematic universe.” -Fr. Stephen I want to be a part of that.

[@colmwhateveryoulike3240]

You are.

[@samuelnuzbrokh3027]

Love whenever Fr. Stephen says "The Idea..." . Mic drop time

[@rontheproton1783]

Thank you for touching on psychedelics. I recently did psilocybin as a Christian and it was not a visual experience but a very very disturbing psychological/spiritual one. Very hard to explain but I will never take it again.

[@Orthodoge]

Same, Im only a catechumen but I did it months ago, very mindset altering

[@mjb91]

Don't do mushrooms and watch the movie "IT" unless you want to experience a very real confrontation with a demon.

[@rontheproton1783]

@@mjb91 yeah I think experiencing the true reality behind our veil of what we experience is too much for most people to handle. Mushrooms seem to heighten the perception of the spiritual or at least feels that way. It, at the very least, feels like you lose control of your imagination.

[@rontheproton1783]

@@mjb91 and hell no. You’re basically asking for it if you watch a movie like that on shrooms.

[@maxsiehier]

Are you allowed to do psilocybin as a Christian?

[@Popscotch328]

In this fresh conversation I've sat at the feet of 21st century Gigantomachy heroes. On many occasions I tapped the back button to rehear the spicy bits. Going around for a second listen. Excited for that LoS Q&A this evening. Glory to God for all things! Christ is risen!!!

[@frandrewstephendamick]

The Q&A episode is on May 13.

[@thedreadtyger]

so good to be back home in good old Late Antiquity! Evlogoumen to Kyrion! Benedicamus Domino! Mebarekh Marya!

[@bonitakupton]

More conversations like this, please!!

[@ProtestantismLeftBehind]

Just bought the book. God willing I’m gonna buy a bunch to mail out for Christmas

[@random_person6041]

“A negation can’t exist. “ 🤯🤯🤯 thank you por ayudarme a organizar mis pensamientos.

[@sunbro6998]

"Why are you asking me? Just get it from God." - wow, he just went for the jugular.

[@claesvanoldenphatt9972]

This is a profound statement that demands the interlocutor contemplate Divine economia. How can grace manifest if not through some instrument?

[@Im_No_Expert_72]

Fascinating. I love how it is, that God is the Author of reality. I love how He is the One who calls the things that are not as though they are. I love learning of the absolute Telos, which is the Spirit. Praise be to God

[@d.b427]

Yaaay fr Stephen de Young, he should be a regular guest

[@oambitiousone7100]

Have listened to Lord of spirits per Jonathan’s recommendation, so this is the first time I’ve seen father Stephen.

[@behindenemylines3149]

I first Read the title of the Video in my head: Orthodoxy and The Religion of the Future.

[@markwoodson2020]

Few thoughts: I experience Grace at levels that have been shattering. Opening the doors of psychedelics are like drinking chaos itself from a firehouse. The grand story is obviously what people are hungry for. My story is integrated and my family is in the process.

[@thesecondlawandthetowerhou6026]

“We don’t understand the material world.” Brilliant point! Everything is off.

[@addisonpoindexter7052]

All the foundations of the world are out of course.

[@IAMFISH92]

Just purchased the ebook version. Super good so far!

[@thestraightroad305]

Jonathan, please, please talk to Dr. Michael Heiser. The connections between his work and yours, the understanding of language, metaphor, symbolism and second temple /ANE literature and art are many and to me, would be a significant contribution to our lives and thoughts and Biblical understanding as Christians seeking God continually. Please consider it! I’m not the only one who sees such a conversation as enormously profitable

[@markomarko494]

Thank you both. Loved this conversation. ☦️

[@cawile]

So I’m a Catholic, and I’m starting to find that this my go to channel....what is happening?!! In other channels I’ve shared some experiences in the comments thread, and often get replies like “come to the Eastern Orthodox Church”. I’m feeling confused, but so grateful for this channel.

[@ethanshepard8608]

Best thing to do at this point is visit your nearest Orthodox parish and attend a Vespers service on a Saturday evening

[@nancyd001]

The Lord works in mysterious ways. I'm a former Catholic, who was very happy being Catholic until the Lord "dragged"me into Orthodoxy. But what a blessing!!!

[@MeaningToMatter]

As a fellow catholic and convert to the faith from protestantism, I absolutely love Jonathan's channel and think his content is fantastic fantastic fantastic! However... Having come from the fragmented christian unity we see in protestantism, I cannot help but see a similar fragmented ethnic disunity in orthodoxy. The Orthodox church is not One, like Christ and the Father are one. The Catholic Church's warts abound, filled as it is with sinners. But, it is the only church founded by Christ and the only christian denomination that has remained one since Christ.... The only one holy catholic and apostolic church. That said, I am so so so very grateful for the vibrant artistic tradition kept by our orthodox brothers and sisters, and I pray that our church would one day be one in Christ. P.S. Theosis is not unique to Orthodoxy. Check out the Catechism of the Catholic church CCC460. I will say, as a Catholic, I have often heard it refered to as Divinization rather than Theosis... But absolutely the same thing and a fundamental Christian concept. PPS (sorry y'all, this is getting long...) Jonathan P, love you brother! Always praying for you, and grateful for the awesome work you're doing!

[@perelandra35813]

Just follow Beauty, Courtney. Wherever it leads.

[@ChristIsKingPhilosophy]

Go orthodox! Just kidding. Check orthodox services and theology and see for yourself. I was a secular philosopher and found the orthodox theology much deeper than whatever Thomas Aquinas was babbling on about, like babies going to hell for not being baptised. Orthodox understanding of hell and salvation is both more "humane" and I think more theologically sound. There's no trying to reach God through the intellect, but through the nous. And catholic theology just confuses key terms constantly... Essence, energies, catholics make a mess that falls into contradiction, confusion and even heresy constantly.

[@JAMESKOURTIDES]

"We've gone through the looking glass when Americans look at Canada as a police state"

[@nepsis33]

Please pray for us in Canada.

[@Ettoredipugnar]

I’m going to buy the book , I hope I can put it in my reading cycle with the 4 other books I’m reading now

[@Jim-Mc]

I'm a Christian from a certain branch of the American Restoration Movement tradition ("speak where Scripture speaks, silent where silent" 😉) , but a lot of us love and respect the overall Orthodox narrative, and you may be interested to hear we have a lot more in common doctrinally speaking, with Orthodoxy than we typically do with our Reformed brothers. I have quite a few friends from church who follow both your work. Great channel, and great interview!

[@kaidoloveboat1591]

You should look into what Fr. Seraphim Rose had to say about the French Revolution

[@JAMESKOURTIDES]

Timely. My copy is out for delivery as I type.

[@jmtheboat]

Superb discussion.

[@ibelieve3111]

Thanks

[@HomesteadForALiving]

I’ve never been more excited for the future. 2020 was the most meaningful year of my life.

[@justinseligman9539]

Great crossover episode! The Symbolic World meets The Lord of the Amon Sul Aereopagus

[@aquiladavid5681]

Alternate title “Hope for the NOW“! What a great discussion. Thank you both so much for everything you’re doing. It’s a cinematic universe lol. I think so many of us that are serious about reconnecting to our root identity through our common Patronage (the big “P“) are strengthened by this community that is taking shape, through voices like yours, that is truly a testament to the grace of God - just like all other moments in life ;) - but in a way that is collectively adding to the momentum of transformation. I was a self-proclaimed atheist, “living the myth” as I now like to say, up until about 4 years ago, and I’m astounded at my own transformation and other’s stories I hear in my parish. What God is doing is truly glorious and revelatory. Can’t wait to get the book!

[@bradspitt3896]

Stopping everything for this one. I could use some hope.

[@gigig2492]

This was such a great discussion. I especially liked the way the two of you interacted with such good humor. Thank you for this. I found myself pausing and rewinding just to hear certain parts again. Profound wisdom here! I bought the book on Ancient Faith and look forward to reading it. ☦️🙏🏻

[@etymosmax9421]

I just started listening to the Lord of Spirits Podcast. Excellent content! The symbolic world & symbolic perspective has inspired me to re-start my YT & I hope to contribute to this excellent conversation.

[@superpeaceloveunity]

What’s YT?

[@maximilianosantiago]

Thanks Jonathan, incredible conversation

[@hyweldda56]

Superb and a must listen. Thanks.

[@Mik3xcellence]

Beautiful conversation

[@TommyGunzzz]

Jonathan, 41:20 is the most fundamental question for people today. Can you make an entire episode on that?

[@DennisCNolasco]

Nice to see Father Stephen on Jonathan's channel and I was wondering what he looked like. Will have to get his new book!

[@JissenkanHonbu]

Already a couple chapters in! Great so far!

[@knightrider585]

Regarding the appropriation of religious iconography by the Bolsheviks, there was an "icon" of Trotsky slaying a capitalist serpent done by Viktor Deni in 1919.

[@Sirchud68]

Hello, Fr. Stephen!

[@Bellg]

These people losing themselves in whatever fantasy universe are missing out... we really do have the best lore, because it is true. Our revealed knowledge of creation is just awesome in the literal sense of the word. If only these people's hunger for wonder and awe would direct itself back to the primordial source material for their respective favoured fantasy worlds

[@kathyjanik9122]

Yes

[@lauragiles4245]

Fantastic. Getting the book.

[@DouglasHorch]

this is the best of what you do.

[@jasonlambert2226]

A few minutes in but it would be interesting if Dr. Michael Heiser was interviewed on your channel.....Old Testament scholar that knows Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. He talks about "the Divine Council" mentioned in Psalm 82 and refers back to Deuteronomy 32 frequently as a particular "worldview." That would be an excellent interview.

[@DerekJFiedler]

@5:16 "All the sudden, this idea of ritual doesn't seem so stupid anymore." Indubidably.

[@jamememes4114]

How did KZbin dare not notify me about this

[@jessedutch3086]

I'm very interested in reading the book HOWEVER read a lot of complaints for the lack of sources and refs. It should be noted to Dr Steven De Young that at least a digital version of the book with full references should be brought out if his message is to reach further than the current fan base. Gratings and blessings

[@maxonmendel5757]

I would love for Pageau to feature Zizek.

[@dcb774]

I keep listening to Pageau and Michael Heiser. I would wondered why b/c they spoke of Christian from different perspectives. In this their two perspectives converge.

[@theconstructionmonk]

Just adding voice to the idea of a drug-induced spiritual experience. The main problem is that it is an unguided experience and can go anywhere and open us up to things we're not properly able to handle. This was the function of shamans, and also the function within Christianity of the Holy spirit. It is in a sense the essence of the Fall, which is to try and handle the spiritual on our own terms in our own strength. We need a guide in this experience. Without a guide we are in a grave place susceptible to many things we are simply not prepared to handle.

[@AmyMaris]

Jonathon, have you watched the series, Endeavor? The path of the world of crime in Oxford England in the 60’s is portrayed in the time of the first psychedelics and you can see how they contributed to the changing of the culture.

[@falkokonig8981]

It would be very important for Jordan Peterson to hear this conversation.

[@aprillee83]

So good. If you “get rid of God”, you have to get rid of yourself. Most atheists seem to hate strongly what the don’t believe exists.

[@taratasarar]

Great dialogos, thanks!

[@jennifercampanaro7544]

The sparks !

[@marymelnyk3678]

Please at some point can you speak about the “Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament “ … and how best to honour that 🙏

[@samplesamplings]

Perhaps the 16th century reference of inccubi, succubi is exactly that? An example of in-vitro fertilization? Pointing to the entire process as ungodly the process itself only produces something unnatural?? This could be more of a message to the future?

[@lavinabowman8489]

I love how they are able to make fun of this at the end

[@michaeldavidnvitales]

Incredible video 🙏🏻

[@isaacangelmeza]

YEEEESSSS

[@hongyi99]

Wow the work of Michael Heiser and the Unseen Realm cross over! Psalm 82 Duet 32!

[@caytieking7642]

QUESTION- have any of you who have read this book also read "The Universal Christ" by Fr. Richard Rohr? I am wondering if Fr. De Young's book has similarities with "The Universal Christ"?

[@robiszabo903]

Jonathan, please talk to Hank Hanegraff

[@stephentuck2970]

I really like your video. And, would like to add something concerning the end discussion about the baptism for the dead. It’s just another theory. But Paul’s overall concern is the reality of the resurrection in contrast to what it means if that was not true. This language begins in 1 Corinthians 15:12, concerning those who say the dead aren’t raised. Now, Paul, from verse 12, all the way to verse 32, holds to a kind of comparative dynamic concerning the reality of these ideas. So, the overarching idea is, are the dead raised? And if not, then what will those do who are baptized for the dead in verse 29, do? Verse 29 is leaving off from the description of Christ and the sequences of those who are made alive through his resurrection power in verses 24-28. Now, verse 29 is based within this thought process of “is Christ raised, or is he not?” And the leading word of “otherwise” that starts verse 29, tells us that if what was stated prior is not the case, being the reality of the resurrection, then what will this certain group, being those who are baptized for the dead, do? Now, In light of what I’ve said so far, the dead are referring to those who have been baptized into the hope of Christ Jesus himself (1 Corinthians 15:12,14,18), and perished. And those who have been baptized for the dead, being baptized through the gospel, are those who are baptized into Christ’s vain hope (Romans 6:3-5, 1 Corinthians 15:19). So, the idea is, if Christ hasn’t been raised, then Christ’s baptism, concerning the dead, is hopeless since all in Christ have died in their sins. This echoes an earlier statement of Paul’s in 1 Corinthians 15:17-19. To be more specific, the dead, in verse 29, are about those who have been baptized (Romans 6:3-5) through their belief in the gospel and perished under a theological framework of Christ not having been raised. And those who have been baptized for the dead, are those who are still alive and in hope for the dead’s resurrection. Even Paul speaks to this dynamic in the following verses in 30-32. He speaks about the dangers of his ministry, and how he dies daily to himself so as to do the will of God. But, in light of this danger, what profit does any of this have if the dead are not raised? As an answer he states, “ if the dead are not raised, let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”

[@justingoforth8350]

Johnathan, Look into books by Michael Heiser a Hebrew scholar, has the awakening school of theology, and naked bible podcast. He has dived into all that your discussing. He would be ideal to have on your podcast.

[@mr8282humble]

The Ambrosiaster corpus uses a latin construction similar to Monotheism in his commentary of Romans. Though the sense is perhaps different.

[@enjerth78]

I had to pause at 29:08 to disagree with what Jonathan just said, God "creating out of the potential" -- but there was no potential. The potency is all in the creative work, not out of the potentials of the universe, but out of the emptiness and lack of potential. Additionally, later in the conversation... metallurgy and other material manipulations is a skill of the earth, an authority granted to Adam, to dominate the earth. Manipulations in the spiritual realm is not an authority granted to Adam. They are both forms of using knowledge to acquire dominion. Only one is granted to us and the other is not. But then Adam dominating other Adam by use of metallurgy or other material manipulation was also not part of that command of dominion. Love the conversations! Thank you so much!

[@petarjovanovic1481]

There is no such thing as emptiness.

[@enjerth78]

@@petarjovanovic1481 My glass is empty.

[@petarjovanovic1481]

@@enjerth78 Empty of what?

[@petarjovanovic1481]

Emptiness doesn't exist. Modern physics has shown that. Intergalactical space is not empty.

[@enjerth78]

@@petarjovanovic1481 Yeah I get that. I just don't see how that's going to change what I'm trying to say with that comment.

[@madduckks]

In other parts of the Body of Christ, there is much teaching on deliverance and deliverance going on, as the Bride is getting ready. Many Christians are demonized and need to be set free. In addition, battle is being down with principalities that rule over certain territories. The church is waging war and declaring Jesus as Lord. The spiritual realm is more real and our spiritual eyes are being opened. Many are teaching on KZbin and helping people get set free. One young man is Isaiah Saldivar.

[@dzemperator]

What I wanna know is - is the wall behind Jonathan gray or blue?

[@domesday1535]

I could not click this fast enough