Jordan Peterson - Hitman Hart: Wrestling With Shadows

original source: • 2017 Maps of Meaning 0...
Psychology Professor Dr. Jordan B. Peterson talks about the pro Wrestlers Bret Hart and Stu Hart to answer a student's question. It's better to be strong, kind and wise than to be just strong, because no matter how strong you are, someone can take you out!
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[@SchweitzerMan]

I love how he got so excited talking about this movie and Bret Hart that he momentarily forgot what the question was.

[@andymcglynn4570]

Yeah it's called waffle

[@thelegend5243]

@@andymcglynn4570you’re not a very intelligent person are you?

[@crimsonchin2786]

what a crossover of my interests, what a pleasant surprise

[@andrewhagan8885]

Most very intelligent ad wise people have an eclectic interest in many subjects and know how to relate them to each other

[@ENCwwe]

JBP just got even more cool than he already was.

[@patriceaqa288]

Crimson Chin Peterson talking about Bret Hart and wrestling with shadows. I guess I've seen everything now. What a joy I'm ready to die now

[@brettash7640]

Ikr...whenever I saw this video pop up I immediately got excited

[@GameTime-yj6qv]

Exactly

[@danlacina7562]

THE BEST THERE IS, THE BEST THERE WAS, AND THE BEST THERE EVER WILL BE!

[@hhbentee]

Lmao the way he stood up as he began the story about the Montreal Screwjob.. when you see that you know you’re in for an epic tale

[@burda5186]

what a mark

[@ENCwwe]

Jordan Peterson marking out is the best

[@showtimehussle4579]

Hahaha i always say the same thing

[@PKJones-on5bc]

He’s explaining mark psychology 101

[@MM-qi5mk]

Dude I literally LOL when I read this

[@acethegreat3963]

I didn't think I missed anything about school but seeing this reminded me of those fun classes where you were learning about something you were genuinely interested in and the teacher was so enthusiastic to teach it to you.

[@GrinningAries]

That was a great documentary. I don't even like wrestling or know much about it, but it was really compelling and interesting

[@jedimindtrick75]

I love Jordan Peterson. I love wrestling. I never though in a million years these universes would collide. Never say never, I guess.

[@cloudyy9033]

I´ve never heard jordan peterson say Aye as a canadian before lol.

[@davincicod1]

It surprised me, eh

[@shmuwee]

Eh*

[@UltimateIrishRebel]

he actually does it quite a bit

[@Cheersbigears]

aaayyyyyyyy

[@thomasdr08]

He says it's in nearly every lecture 🤔

[@ArcanicFire]

Someone should send this to Whatculture Wrestling.

[@rodycaz8984]

They're leftists; they probably think he is a fascist or something.

[@Vaga-Bard]

@@rodycaz8984 lol. Who isn't to them? Ya know?

[@tylerchristensen1484]

Summary: It's good to be strong. It's better to be strong and kind. It's best to be strong, kind, and wise.

[@granpastreetz]

Never in a million years would I hear JP utter the words "Bret Hart" in any context related to wrestling.

[@paradisecityX0]

Wrestling was on its golden age in the late 90s

[@chrismale9976]

Sure was, Bret, Michaels, Austin the undertaker. Miss those days

[@KELPacino]

80's & 90's

[@brian6x]

Ever since the Montreal screw job, Wrestling's been down hill and garbage. Full of trash, sleaze and no character.

[@PeteSanctions]

I feel this because when wrestling is brought up in conversation I launch into a sermon about how much I love it and could seemingly go on for hours that I forget what we were originally talking about

[@ek737]

I hope his students appreciated how lucky they were to have such an interesting and engaging professor.

[@cwell510]

I've been a huge pro wrestling fan for decades and it's so cool to see a collge professor and a person as incredibly intelligent like Jordan Peterson reference Bret Hart and compare his documentary to good and evil.

[@therealbs2000]

0:43 "for a while the most famous canadian on the planet." years later, another man would go on to become the most famous canadian on the planet...

[@Vaga-Bard]

For the same reasons.. psychology. Except bret applied it.. JP just studies it.

[@Nobody-xe9fc]

Owen?

[@therealbs2000]

@@Nobody-xe9fc the anvil

[@Nobody-xe9fc]

@@therealbs2000 Who

[@AnnaPresman]

Ahaha I love wrestling. I like it how he appreciated it when he saw that it's all about the struggle between good and evil. I mean, the story pro wrestling portrays is old as dirt, really. That's why it's appealing.

[@dariusneidhart1068]

I am a great Bret hart fan from India. Still find time to search more and more content on him because I just couldn't see him do more of what he did best. I was only 7 when Bret left WWE in 1997 and we didn't have a cable network in India that broadcasted WCW, so I couldn't watch him wrestle there. When I was introduced to the internet. I immediately searched for Bret hart. Followed his website and got to know that he had suffered a stroke. I was so sad for years. But then again when wwe announced Bret's induction into the HOF with the video clip. I moved to tears immediately and I was a big 16 at the time. I had never cried like that. Listening to his entrance theme and seeing his face so clearly after 1997, when I had only flashes of him, it was a very emotional moment for me. The kid inside me always hated Vince, Shawn, hhh for what they did with Bret in 1997. He was a hero and pro wrestling will die without real heros who kids can trust. Now, it's just a circus. Imagine how good Bret was that at 7 years of age, I had become his lifelong fan who continues to get emotional to this day (30yrs old) thinking about him. I love bret. I wish I was rich enough to travel all over to Calgary and meet Bret and spend good time with him discussing so many of his matches that I watched over these years. Thank you, Bret. You were a good example for me and so many others. You're a true hero. Love you!

[@thadanzwiggler]

I remember having a professor in undergrad like this dude. NO ONE ever missed his class.

[@danlacina7562]

YES HITMAN HART! i saw the opening of that movie in Toronto back in the 90s

[@justinp5661]

Terrific. My two interests collide.

[@ATCRyderX]

TOUGH AS A BOOT™ ~ That is just Canadian AF. Dr. Peterson is delightful and as everyone is saying: I love that he's a REAL wrestling fan.

[@lefterisatheras5918]

Cornette and Last should invite him to watch AEW together, we are gonna be lauging for a decade 🤣

[@ATCRyderX]

@@lefterisatheras5918 I wouldn't wish that on anyone LOL. It would be a pleasure & a privilege to throw back some Steveweisers with JP & watch some 96-99 WWF Real Fyre Piff tho.

[@BlankEartling5339]

My world just exploded. Dr Peterson mentions professional wrestling!

[@mikeb242]

Love this

[@DaboooogA]

Excellent documentary btw! I'd also recommend *Beyond the Mat*

[@shawnpatrick6698]

Wow a hitman fan omg now I love you even more

[@SefniAsheforr]

I actually think his point resonates to how we see female characters represented in most mainstream entertainment these days. They (as in cultural critics and many popular voices) are particularly obsessed with the "strong" part, but not the other qualities Peterson attributes to the "good archetype" like kind and wise. Seems we're in a cultural position where left-leaning folks (generally), and feminists in particular, care much more about women being depicted and/or viewed as mighty (strong, in their eyes) than humble, wise, dutiful, and altruistic, as the "good archetype" would be classified in many cases.

[@MsStealYourDadAndMom]

I think this was the first time I've seen him giggle and get all giddy 😂

[@LOSKOSKI]

Amazing! I never would have thought Jordan and Bret Hart in the same clip. Mind....blown!

[@SomethingRedundant]

I love his spirit fingers

[@nihilistchannel4598]

This is weird because Jordan Peterson does an interview with John Stossel and John Stossel had a pretty interesting interaction with a professional wrestler

[@shakeandjake_1]

Jordan interviewing Bret would be interesting

[@ShinbrigTV]

I loved that he started nerding out about Bret Hart

[@MrPatt1983]

He mixed up the World Wrestling Federation with the World Wildlife Foundation.

[@Thecrows_eye]

Awesome

[@1980bwc]

I would have gone to college had I known I could have this guy as my professor.

[@Razear]

No way. Dr. Peterson was a pro wrestling fan? I remember him criticizing pro wrestling in his second talk with Sam Harris, but never knew that he had actual knowledge about it. Fucking love this dude.

[@anari234]

He isn't, he says the documentary showed him what the appeal was.

[@toprightchannel3080]

That's what I respect about JP. For me if you're Canadian and you don't know about Bret Hart for me that is a lack of vision like what Peterson is talking about here. There's nothing sophisticated about being ignorant, Bret Hart was a big big deal.

[@ENCwwe]

@@toprightchannel3080 That's interesting, Hart was before my time but it seems that he isn't nearly the cultural force in the States that he is in Canada. Hulk Hogan is still a household name here 35 years later, I don't think Bret is exactly. I could see why he would be huge in Canada though. I imagine the Montreal Screwjob much more well known there too.

[@ChrisWolff2013]

@@ENCwwe Hulk Hogan is also a major league scumbag

[@ENCwwe]

@@ChrisWolff2013 Saying the N word years ago doesn’t make you a scum bag. He’s apologized.

[@TheSinlessAssassin]

I would love to see what Jordan Peterson would think of The Rock documentary. I'm sure he'd have a lot to say about The Rock not having much of a character until his first heel turn which finally gave his character the edge he needed to finally be interesting.

[@9yearoldUmar]

“Bret hart not sophisticated”? I always thought Bret was extremely creative…a story teller in the ring.

[@brian6x]

As well, the excellence of execution.

[@scotty6388]

You sit at a table with idiots and you’ll look like a genius. It’s all the circles

[@Floridaburg-]

Bret hart “thank you Jordan Peterson for continuing to let me be your hero” Lol

[@lordlobezz1769]

the documentary is called Bret Hart wrestling with shadows

[@dariosmoviereviewchannel7555]

Peter got it right! SEEING - AWARENESS!

[@nulifidianpos9089]

Anyone have a link to the documentary? Pls?

[@MarLenBo]

It's on KZbin in complete form. I suggest also looking up the director, Paul Jay. His work with TRNN is far more enlightening than this fucking mark.

[@totallybored5526]

Go to the search bar in KZbin an type in the title. It’s really easy

[@Vaga-Bard]

In wrestling, the good always wins, the bad only wins when more heat is needed and tickets need to be sold, but eventually the good always unseat the bad.. ring psychology they call it..

[@wrestlingtapes2036]

Bret Hart is the goat of Professional wrestling

[@freshair3865]

Bret hart 👍👍

[@phanes3440]

mind body and spirit. Master your body as well as the rest

[@thelegend5243]

Such an intelligent man

[@only1icon1801]

Bloody hell, he is the Bret Hart of intellect, a league of his own

[@Mojames1984]

I would love to see Bret on the JBP podcast!

[@DRE4Mzy]

i'm not sure if Jordan Peterson is aware that he is the father figure for so many young men

[@hg1651]

I wish movies operated at a high level now.

[@cadijot]

look at all those 'young men' in the foreground enjoying his lecture Hitman Hart - great documentary

[@no_one01-5]

This is why I don't like anecdotal evidence. People remember the outlines of situations and they fill the details what they think they remember. Just watched that film and details were all wrong here.

[@user-vg5rv5xf4u]

I approve

[@hospice8896]

If you haven't watched, do it! I learned of it from JBP. He's right, it's staggeringly good. I grew up watching wrestling" cynically " in some ways in Dallas. A bit of a hot bed for wrestling, ( Von Erichs, etc.), This is powerful stuff.

[@vlad_o_sh]

Anybody read the first Essay in Roland Barthes "Mythologies"? There he is also talking about "catching" in France (you can say that it was the forerunner to wrestling) as a staged fight between good and bad.

[@salmanjaffri2539]

Multiverse

[@jhonwayne9999]

I don't like wrestling but this was a great point and story(the three that down voted must be trolling sjws

[@Clay3613]

Why does Peterson teach in what looks like a community college if he's so prestigious?

[@nenabunena]

We have major and prestigious universities that have rooms that look like this in my country. What a Snob you are

[@spikeep6141]

The Man of Strength hero archetype is further characterised by their tendency to be arrogant, supremely overconfident oafs who are punished and forced to learn to think by submission through trial by ordeal : • Thor is total oaf who Loki constantly makes a complete fool of. • Heracles is forcibly humbled by being tricked into being responsible for the deaths of his wife, his children and his best friend, Abderis. • Samson : Worst Priest *EVER....* So there *is* a wrestling connection to the Montreal Screwjob with the finishing submission-Hold - in the documentary, Brett Hart (The Man) maintains that Brett ‘Hitman’ Hart (The Character) never submitted in his final bout against Bad Guy Wrestler Shawn Michaels, which is True.

[@4ArchieLee]

Note: this will be the only Wrestler with the analysis over him.

[@booates]

wait that stuff about reading is true? what

[@ricksanchez2425]

Brets a hero love Bret

[@spikeep6141]

“It was the Ancient Egyptians who first figured out that it [Godhood] had SOMETHING to do with SEEING....” That’s the Observer Effect in Quantum Mechanics. What You Believe to be True IS True.

[@ProfessorMatrix]

Now Canadas top wrestler is! Kennnnnnnnnnyyyyyyyyy OoooooooooooMEGA!!!!!!bret is still the best.

[@phillipcarr3469]

Reminds me of the story of the 3 Senior Citizens that met for a reunion one night and were accosted coming out of the restaurant by half a dozen knife carrying thugs that were there to rob the old gents. Anyway a fight broke out and the poor buggers were lying and bleeding on the pavement. After the Ambulance came and took the victims to hospital it was discovered that the old gents were ex green beret unarmed combat instructors from WW2. The gang eventually recovered from their injuries.

[@psynque]

Green Berets did not exist during WW2 but a cool story you made up.

[@thewestlingfanatic2405]

He knows Hart, having grown up on Stu and he forgotten the name of the promotion(WWF), Which made Hart a superstar. I don't believe it!

[@Kyruusstatic]

That wasn't the message of the movie. It was detailing the rise of the anti-hero and how it was a bad thing. It wasn't natural.

[@jordand5616]

SO TRUE IN LIFE: No matter how strong, smart, or successful at the highest of levels you must remain kind & humble BC there’s ALWAYS one out there who has your number.... You may not run across them, but their out there. Funny though he totally missed the ENTIRE point of the movie. However it’s really cool to be reminded that the lay person or ‘casual’ fan sees wrestling a TOTALLY DIFFERENT way than smart marks/IWC whatever you want to call that particular small group of the audience.. When that group bitches & Fucking endlessly complains about the booking and creative they need to see something like this to remind them: WWE is coming to town to fill a 10K Arena for a ppv--- that 9,500 tickets are sold to people who think like this guy and 500 tickets to people that think like IWC/HARDCORE Fans and regardless of the creative the 500 people are always pretty much going to fucking be there..... It's the 9,500 that they're trying to cater too or program for...Thats for instance why VKM chose REIGNS BC he thought that would attract the 9,500.. Not somebody like BRYAN. I Would fucking pay good money to get the real reason why AJ styles got that built from gender out of nowhere and kept it for so long while at the same time when Baller return from that injury got buried up until a couple of weeks ago..... At what age can an elderly person be deemed mentally unstable and removed as Board of Directors from a public company??? 🗣there’s an interesting storyline for You ALL....... and triple H could take over the WWE & inject NXT'ets all onto the brands...all the Internet wrestling fans would be happy and stockholders would be confused.... business as usual, BUT: Ratings would not dramatically improve because it is not work rate that makes people watch it is fucking star power and in less you show me Dwayne Johnson Steve Austin or Mick Foley someone with that level of character and charisma I don’t give a shit how many flips and lives in seven star Masters they have there not moving the needle.... as sick as this sounds Cena has been the only thing that has moved numbers the past decade.. BRYAN in 2014 could’ve MAYBE been A long terms ratings draw but will never know if he would’ve been a draw as champion or if it was just about him chasing the title like STING used to be. Now if really, the real wwe company machine would’ve gotten behind him and he wouldn’t of gotten hurt DANIEL may have been the guy to change wrestling a lot like BRET HART did in 1992 when he literally redefined what wrestling was. Honestly, the only one that pushes the emotional needle nowadays like it or hate his title reign but those little Butterflies used to get in your stomach as a kid before the WWF title matches sometimes reappear before a lesson or match. It does have a real fight video which is fucking amazing for pro wrestling in 2019.. Summer slam 2016 shocked the hell out of me I really thought they were going to go in a real different direction that night with Lesnar doing his thing BALOR winning the title after only being on RAW for several weeks & Nakamura JOE, ROODE, CWC TournamentWe’re all signaling for the first time since John Cena error in 2005 a new direction new era ...,. Jim Cornett told me to stay away from smoking that fucking Hopium..... Now its 2019!!!!! WHATS GONNA HAPPEN NOW THAT VINCE HAS A COUPLE OF HUNGRY BUT UNEXPERIENCED BUT: WELL FUNDED COMPANIES NIPPING AT HIS BILLION$ Tv RIGHTS HEELS???

[@user-vg5rv5xf4u]

Look

[@retter2critical]

Such a good film that Jordan is talking about. Watch it here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/boiskJeVg7aYldU

[@user-vg5rv5xf4u]

Hey?

[@SSJ1Igor]

Dont feel like he answered the question though, as interesting and fun as this video is. The most I got was "Well over time strength just became one of the elements which were considered for what's morally good" thanks to that chimp digression. And the question still remains: "Why did strength become a mere part of it?". I guess we can extrapolate: "Because people realized that other qualities played a role of equal or greater value in what makes one's life quality improve". Which is a "good enough answer" but still not a precise one in my opinion. I really love this dude's lectures but was legit interested in a precise straight-forward answer.

[@SSJ1Igor]

I mean we still have the question of "Why is quality of life 100% correlated to "morally good" if this were the correct extrapolated answer?".

[@GrubKiller436]

It was as straight as he tried to make it.

[@brian6x]

The Montreal screw job

[@ENCwwe]

Much of wrestling is pretty stupid but when it's done right or can be an extremely sophisticated method of storytelling. The storyline between Shawn Michaels and The Undertaker leading up to Wrestlemania 26 is probably the best example of this.

[@ENCwwe]

@A Lakonophile I think its pretty sophisticated for professional wrestling. It chronicles the tragic results of an obsession or in religious terms an idol. We see Michaels self destruct losing his virtue, his friends, the respect of his fans and eventually his career. At the end he accepts reality and there's reconciliation but his career is still gone. To me its a masterpiece, I think Jordan would appreciate it.

[@ENCwwe]

@A Lakonophile Why do you say that? Michaels had several deep storylines over the years. This video package for it is amazing kzbin.info/www/bejne/mX6qdWuHfbd1mLM

[@rvdjt8874]

Jesucristo es Dios

[@metalheadjake3339]

WWF/E is my gulity pleasure. I know it's fake/staged and all an act but I don't care. Still a very dangerous "Sport" and the risks are extremely real

[@Kabodanki]

An old man wrestling boys in his basement ?

[@themeg1145]

Jon the was a catholic priest that lived near by who had been doing what Catholic priest does with kids. So Stu invited him round and took him into the dungeon. And started stretching him to the point where the priest was screaming to the high heavens and asking for mercy. To which Stu replied “did the boys scream like this when you had your hands on them”

[@isitoveryet9525]

@@themeg1145 Wait, is that for real?

[@thomasc.5219]

@@isitoveryet9525 yes it's very real. While the priest is screaming in pain from being put in legit wrestling holds, Stu says "did the boys scream like this while you had them in your room." He hurt him real good. Stu was a old school shoot fighter. Bare knuckle, no holds barred fighting. He was a tough SOB. I cant remember what happened to the priest after but I'm sure he wasnt around town after that.

[@brian6x]

the dungeon

[@fanenthusiast3802]

Sun tzu

[@user-vg5rv5xf4u]

I love wrestling and drugs

[@LawyerandThePerp]

Only, this never happened. Anyone who has watched the doc and is familiar with it, knows Jordan is full of shit. The “young buck” was never rude to Stu or insinuated anything else, and he was 230 pounds of muscle at like 25 years old being ONE HUNDRED PERCENT compliant for an 85 year old local legend, who just happened to get off on stretching out compliant people because he was decades removed from being able to do it against someone resisting/his weiner no longer worked and he was half crippled on top of being a fossil. I’ve been grappling for half my life (im 36) and if Stus grandchildrens lives were on the line he couldn’t have gotten that young kid to submit against his will, and the kid knew NOTHING! I didn’t realize Jordan was this liberal with the truth, sadly, I’ve lost some respect for him after seeing this.

[@justinp5661]

I don't think this was malice. Just error. What he is describing is exactly what Keith Hart said in the documentary. He just got them mixed. After all, he couldn't remember what wwf meant.

[@LawyerandThePerp]

@@justinp5661 Not true. I could remember nearly every word of that doc! Keith was talking about Stu's conversation with younger guys who were also looking for help/guidance in the industry, and he mentioned how Stu would rub his palms together and say "Ok Tiger maybe you can show me something too!" That would be a real grapplers attitude, except Stu didn't mean it! And what Stu considered "showing a move" was putting someone in a submission who was fully compliant, and cranking it as hard as he poss could! He never swapped positions like he would do if he was u know....TEACHING THE MOVE! And btw, it wasn't "malice" per se, but Jordan Peterson was straight up knowingly lying here IMO.

[@coldestwinter9913]

You're looking for that so that's what you see. He's going off of memory of a documentary he saw probably once. He forgets the question that he's answering halfway through the video but you don't believe him to have remembered details of a documentary wrong? It's easier for you to believe that he's lying? He could simply provide a different example from a work he's more familiar with, but somehow it's in his interest to lie and potentially get caught in the act by one of his students who actually do know what WWF means? You're seeing what you want to see.@@LawyerandThePerp

[@algol291]

4:00 what is hr talking about? He must be speaking of films from the sixties and earlier, and a few modern films. Today, the cinema is built for morons and teenagers.

[@themeg1145]

algol291 and yet the people who see movies today don’t understand them

[@KenOnStrength]

Jordan doesn’t exactly get his facts straight here. Makes me question anything else he talks about.

[@bluntfello]

Bret Hart gives this video a 4/10

[@birdofhermes3506]

I'm kind of surprised he didn't go deeper into the morality of the Bret Hart story, or the "Montreal Screwjob" because that would ultimately answer her question.. The basis of the story is, at the time Hart was offered a VERY sizable pay increase from WCW, and the WWF wasn't financially sound as it is now, he chose to stay on a 20 year contract instead and within months McMahon backed out so Hart went to see if the other offer was still open. But, the problem was he was the WWF champion and it's kind of wrestling law you NEVER take a company championship when you leave.. McMahon and Hart couldn't come up with a compromise for him to drop the title when he leaves, Hart didnt want to lose in Montréal and McMahon wanted him to go out on his back regardless.. finally they decided to finish the match with a disqualification, that would ultimately keep Bret his title that night and he would lose it soon after. What ended up happening was during a live event the finish of the match was changed without Hart knowing when McMahon came out and told them to ring the bell when Hart was in a submission hold, making him look like he tapped out and lost. It would later come out that alot more people were in on it including his opponent and the ref who was a real life friend. He was so torn contemplating leaving a company that made him who he is for a way bigger paycheck that he chose to stay, then he got screwed over on live TV because of gross negotiations, only for that rival company to go out of business in a few years time, and he's forced to retire due to injury regardless of all of it.. Strength in morality is a moot point because morality could be looked as inherently strong, so it's never a question about who's right or who's wrong it's all about whether you decide to go through a situation gracefully even when you're physically strong enough to solve it either way. Granted the world's painted in various shades of gray but it's also pretty clearly defined.. and as a person you either walk down one road or the other, it's impossible for most to remain truly chaotic neutral.

[@GameTime-yj6qv]

Exactly. The Montreal Screwjob and the events leading up to it is perfect for a lesson on morality.