Jordan Peterson on European Pride

original source: • Jordan Peterson @ Lafa...
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[@sirtarquin6306]

"Pride is not the opposite of shame but it's source. True humility is the only antidote to shame." -Iroh

[@jamesgarrett2928]

Ayeee look at Uncle Iroh finding his way into this conversation

[@manictiger]

Ah, there's my Pai Sho tile.

[@malcolmmacinnis247]

My ancestors are smiling at me imperials. Can you say the same?

[@HarashiKalou]

Skyrim belongs to the Thalmor. Remove Ulfric.

[@dianamwangi8726]

By still controlling African countries

[@theexpert758]

*blood boils

[@stahlstahlstahl2325]

@@dianamwangi8726 Africans must solve their religion superstitions and political corrupt leaders first, after that blame someone else.

[@unicornonthecob4302]

4:50 "DON'T SAY PRIVILEGE DON'T SAY PRIVILEGE DON'T SAY PRIVILEGE!"

[@Mercurio_volante]

LOL yes!

[@peterniedrich4037]

aaaaaahahahahaahaha nice man, haven`t realiced that struggle at first

[@234245]

OP on suicide watch.

[@unicornonthecob4302]

Witch Hunter Tyrus Why would you think that??

[@hydraelectricblue]

AHAHAHAHAHAHA I caught that too.

[@BusanDalint]

Why shouldnt I be proud of my ancestors? They survived so much. They build everything around me. I carry their genes and have a responsibility to preserve and continue their work.

[@midget3048]

I think what hes saying is take pride in you and what you have done, not what some guy who happens to be from the same part of the world or happens to have the same skin colour has done. Because you didnt do it. You have the genes and the potential to do great things as we all do, but to take pride in something you didnt do is just kinda meaningless. Instead of taking pride in the greatness of the past, take pride in the greatness you build. Just my opinion

[@big_bickie]

Dušan Bálint you shouldn't be proud because you didn't do shit.

[@invictuspublishinghouse]

*+Docta_diaz* I shall remember not to take pride in my daughter the next time she achieves something - after all, I didn't do it. You people are laughable.

[@rooksed]

saying you are proud of your child is much different than saying you are proud of people who lived hundreds of years before you whom you have had nothing to do with their accomplishments (besides being born with their DNA).

[@big_bickie]

Thorium that's completely different because you created her environment and helped her grow.

[@buybuydandavis]

They can have gratitude for the civilization bequeathed to them, and pride if they take a hand in preserving it and improving it.

[@jamesgarrett2928]

So have white people thank slavery for their 10 bedroom home and then use pride to inspire and turn that home into a castle?

[@buybuydandavis]

@@jamesgarrett2928 In the US, slavery allowed the ruling class 10 bedroom homes while impoverishing the great mass of Whites and slowing wealth production overall, and that's Benjamin Franklin saying it in the 1750s.

[@jamesgarrett2928]

@@buybuydandavis any articles, videos, or sources confirming the impoverishment of "the great mass of whites"?

[@buybuydandavis]

@@jamesgarrett2928 Franklin makes the argument here. Observations Concerning the Increase of Mankind, Ben Franklin: founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-04-02-0080

[@Citadin]

@@jamesgarrett2928 "whites" did not run or profit from slavery. Read Dr. Tony Martin kzbin.info/www/bejne/apPYZGmHn8Z7fq8

[@nalissolus9213]

Alright by the same logic we shouldn't have collective guilt....

[@nalissolus9213]

Also some level of pride brings the people together and prevents atomization and isolation. By telling young people about their forefather's accomplishments they are given a source of inspiration and an ideal they can try and imitate and draw strength from through all the challenges that adult life brings. Or if you're not destined to greatness you are at least inspired to create a social environment where people (especially men) of great talent can grow and take the civilisation to new heights in art, literature and science.

[@angreeee]

exactly. Leftist say we should be ashamed of our heritage and right wingers say we should be proud. Both are iIdiotic ideas.

[@victorcates9330]

It's very aligned with a lot of what resonates with people. A meritocracy implies you control the actions on which your value is assessed. It's a call to action (you can do something about your actions, but not your ancestors). Other considerations are irrelevant. Getting some free credit (or debt) on accident of birth is opposed to this. It's also creates a barrier to acceptance of the west if it's assumed that free credit is handed out to white people. (this is an assertion that's often made in deliberate opposition to 'western' values, attempting to construct it as somehow racist and needing to be resisted)

[@maxalain9948]

Yes. We all agree. Did you think that people would be on that inconsistent bullshit? No collective pride, no collective guilt.

[@olivesama]

@@angreeee I've scarcely heard anyone say we should be "ashamed" of anyone's heritage. Rather, that we should be willing to acknowledge the dark chapters in our history rather than pretend they have no absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the state of affairs we have inherited today. In the same way modern "pilgrims" (as Peterson called them) flock to sites of high culture in order to learn from and better understand what is right with the world, we must not ignore the darkness. The maintenance of civilization is an ongoing project.

[@jonm8218]

Pride is being used in the wrong way. Admiration and respect should be the right response to European culture. But when people are confronted by people who hate and want to destroy European culture it’s hard not to feel attacked.

[@kramarancko1107]

The reason they want to do that is because that’s what they did themselves to others

[@dannysullivan3951]

No one is likely to ever destroy European culture, it's embedded in American culture, our music, our art, our literature, our science. So let's not pretend that's a real threat.

[@fenezervzerv5816]

​@@dannysullivan3951 If you read brave new world you'll see that the idea of the sovereign individual can and eventually will be replaced by something else, in this case a cast system. This new philosophy is developping right now thru economical liberalism and the guise of a left leaning societal progress. Most ppl don't read books and have a sporadic knowledge of history, which facilitate this process. The west is morphing into a new culture that has nothing to do with what Peterson is defending here.

[@MoisePicard-mk1nt]

​@@dannysullivan3951 It's not about that. It's about disrespect.

[@TheGreatGodPan]

Peterson logic: Greed and free market capitalism is good, being proud (but not taking credit for) your ancestors' achievements = bad.

[@dumass048]

Pride - "feeling deep pleasure or satisfaction as a result of one's own achievements, qualities, or possessions or those of someone with whom one is closely associated." You sure as hell didn't achieve anything, and you're not closely associated with those people at all, you weren't even alive at the same time as them. Even proposing the idea that you were is ridiculous. This isn't pride.

[@TheGreatGodPan]

@@dumass048 ok atheist. It is pride because I am descended from these people and it's human instinct to take pride in what our ancestors and relatives accomplish. Literally every race on this planet does it. Stop being so pretentious.

[@kodiakbearguy1675]

​@@dumass048it's all of Europeans that have accomplished a lot it took a Nation period. You hypocrisy is wild bro?!

[@deader6]

Pride isn't as simple as he makes it out to be. I'm sure he feels proud when a family member achieves something. This is externalized pride, not the internalized pride he refers to in an attempt to counter nationalism.

[@syedali-rs8cj]

keep moving the goalpost,family ties are more familiar to a person than arbitrary national ties which do change.

[@hannass4797]

@@syedali-rs8cj How about the World Cup? How about when we cheer on our national teams, and we get all ecstatic and proud when our country wins the final game? Because I mean, as someone not playing in the team, I had nothing to do with their win, so why should I even be happy they won?

[@dumass048]

@@hannass4797 exactly, there's no reason to be proud, but it makes people feel better so they do. You just defeated your own argument

[@biggibbs4678]

@@syedali-rs8cj since when do familiar ties not change? People literally make a new family when they get married have kids. Most people never change countries.

[@citytianyu]

I think some people here mix pride and proud inproperly. You could be proud for a family member's achievement or a win of your national soccer team, but you don't wave a flag endlessly in the future because of that, and you don't feel yourself special or brought up to a new level since that, which is basically what "pride" implies. Being proud is a good experience but "limited", like you are happy when you get a raise, but that doesn't gaurantee that you become a happy person since then.

[@BitesizedPhilosophy]

This little segment is very relevant to my own plan to move to Florence this fall to study painting and drawing at an atelier type of school. Seeing the works of the old masters puts my current self to shame and I can hardly believe I got accepted. It certainly is an inspiring place to study/train, but it is also judging you and asking you to work harder. This material belongs to "The Mill Series" channel (full video link in the description) and they were very kind to allow me to use some of it. I would appreciate it if at least some of you could hop over and give them a subscription, a like and/or a comment as a little "thank you" for their great efforts and footage.

[@BitesizedPhilosophy]

Well, given that I am usually a coward, leaving the country alone is scary enough, but I barely think about it, because all my fears are overshadowed by the gigantic workload that is coming my way and the judging eyes of the super competent instructors. I am more scared of failure and not being able to keep up with the training schedule than anything else. I was never in Florence before, but my guess is that it should be a pretty safe city?

[@SerenityReceiver]

I was in Florence twice, other than being overcharged at restaurant, very pleasant. BTW: with regards to the video to use "Europe" makes them sound like they know very little. "Europe" is 47 (!!) countries that have very different cultures. If "european pride" even exists it must be a very recent developement. Enjoy your studies, you are there to learn, not to already be good at everything ;)

[@winniewildflower3540]

Congratulations ! All the very best to you :)

[@todomachii]

Congratulations. And remember, to learn is to fail a little bit. By the way thank you for citing the source of the video.

[@fermentedsourdough5462]

Bite-sized Philosophy : It was safe 5 years ago but now I suggest you take great care. All the best & you will learn a lot.

[@BobSmith911]

4:35 and 4:49 Peterson almost slips up and uses the term 'privilege'

[@loismustdie475]

Yeah, but he didn't say it. This guy amazes me, to think that a human being can be that careful, clear, quick, and articulate with their speech. It's a real inspiration.

[@paolocalvaruso182]

Ahahah at 4:35 he almost said P...!

[@baldr2510]

@@loismustdie475 Yea Its inspiring that he can be such a weasel.

[@Ardepark]

To quote an ally: "I'm embarrassed for doctor Peterson in this clip. This is a shockingly bad argument. He seems to be implying that pride necessarily means taking credit but not taking responsibility or trying to live up to. But I don't see why this must be so. Why *can't* pride mean taking responsibility for and trying to live up to? Second, he ignores the actual question which has to do with individualism not surviving if groups of individualists are overrun by tribalists or ethnocentrists. (And some groups are measurably, demonstrably, more individualist than others...) Third, he ignores the context which is that the only reason anyone tries to sever the white, Western man's sense of ownership of and identification with his birthright and his inheritance is to try to steal it. Maybe I didn't build that, but my genes did. And they built it for me (and me for it.) Jordan Peterson here is making himself accessory to that theft of my birthright and inheritance and its redistribution to other individuals whose connection to it is much more dubious, because they have NONE. Fourth, Jordan Peterson is ignoring the wishes of my ancestors. In my constitution it says "to ourselves and our posterity" and this sentiment is echod in a variety of other sources. None of them say "to whoever wants a piece" or "to whoever needs it most" or "to whoever has the least" or any such nonsense. Fifth, he repeats the stupid lefty trope of reducing race and ethnicity to skin color. You bloody know it's more than that you bloody liar. Sixth, when I glorify my ancestors I am not TAKING credit, I am GIVING credit, which is also in accordance with their wishes, as it is in accordance with their wishes that this credit come from their progeny. Fuck you, Jordan Peterson, you status quo, hack."

[@fellowtemplar5679]

Thank you for uploading these videos Bite-sized Philosophy! Have a great day/night! (It’s 1:00 am here)

[@BitesizedPhilosophy]

Thank you and have a good night!

[@pushthetempo2]

I'm proud to be a European. I dont go around telling people about it or showing off. But I'm admiring of the great history, culture, food and art born out of Europe. It should be studied and preserved and built on. Also I dont know what white privilege has to do with it, you cant apply that to all of Europe, it's a hugely diverse continent. A poor man in Romania or even southern Italy hardly can say they are privileged, definitely not compared to a man in a city in Germany or England. And they are not even really that white, many Europeans in the south have quite dark skin and links to Africa/middle east

[@yungfaas6688]

J T where in Europe if I could ask?

[@user-pd9ju5dk5s]

But why proud? What did you do to be born European? How is it different from winning the lottery in that effort was not a variable? Respect, sure. Appreciation, sure. But pride? That's absurd.

[@hanyu_dada]

the thing is when an american talks about europe they're talking about uk/germany/netherlands and some other of these countries and not the actual europe

[@swaythegod5812]

Again America doesn’t define European only Europe does Olive skin as we say in Europe are considered white because they have mostly European dna that has always been the case America doesn’t get to redefine who’s white when they have identified as white for thousands of years before America existed For example by European standards Mexico and a lot of South American country’s Would be considered white Only America is obsessed with looking like a vampires You could make the case for some Parts of the Middle East too being white For example turkey who are a mixed race of Europeans and Turks Some even have European features and lighter skin Or some parts of Afghanistan and Iran in the mountain area’s there are literally people who are as white as snow and have blue and green eyes

[@haterade3.029]

Dark skinned and European dont go in the same sentence

[@TomorrowWeLive]

By Peterson's logic nobody should be proud of the achievements of their family members. Parents shouldn't clap when their children get awards. But it is human nature to identify oneself with the larger group to which one belongs: family, nation and race.

[@DuncanL7979]

That's so true.

[@spitalhelles3380]

"my father will hear about this"

[@mooreuproar2139]

Well said.

[@hydraelectricblue]

Yet you believe in rugged individualism????....you're such an intellectual hypocrite.

[@JoeyPerp]

Parents have an active part in the raising of their kids, hopefully, and because of that, the child's successes are a result of something the parents actually did. While your ancestors may have done cool shit you shouldn't go around taking credit for it. Make your own great accomplishments that your future descendants can look at and be inspired by rather than take credit for them.

[@Veilzlol]

I like this response. While I think there is nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage, to a degree that does nothing for you. I can identify with the forefathers of my nation or ethnic background, but that doesn't make me anything. To contribute and pull the chain further forward is the responsibility he is talking about. If your heritage is of greatness and innovation you shouldn't be standing still claiming how you identify with it, you should be moving it even further and pushing the boundaries. Pride is similar to idle, it tricks us into not becoming what we could.

[@Veilzlol]

I don't want to see any race disappear at all, and of course I'd fight against any designed idea to do that. Your argument assumes though that nobody but people of traditional European descent can hold their ideals. That is why assimilation is key over multiculturalism. I agree it seems sick some people wish to extinguish an entire ethnic group, but I believe even if somehow that happened the values would live on.

[@erikhalle6504]

So what, I can’t be proud of my dad because I think he does great things? Even though I know his accomplishments aren’t mine, am I foolish for taking pride in them and letting myself be inspired?

[@stevenponte6655]

then you should also feel guilt when your dad does bad things.

[@hydraelectricblue]

Inspiration is fine, but your dad didn't do great things because he can sunburn.....

[@altaydraws]

Erik Halle hey bitchass pay attention to 03:40

[@syedali-rs8cj]

Erik, first the pride towards a family member is more familiar than pride in a nation, your parents took the time to raise you and helped you but even then do not take pride in their accomplishments as your own, make your own accomplishments. Second, do something In your life that you can actually be proud of.

[@lint678]

pride is the wrong label

[@masterjunky863]

Proud to be white and european, love all people.

[@visfor9355]

I don't see why everyone's saying "peterson is just saying this because" this has always been in line with how he thinks. Taking pride in your skin color for things ppl of your skin color accomplished is basically tribalism. And he has said several times he's no fan of tribalism. I feel like ppl just want to believe that he's got some sense of white pride that he doesn't have. This man is a true individual and he happens to be white

[@thatfellow4497]

It's worthwhile how he notes pride as a sin. Humility, however, is a virtue; we should show this through gratitude for being born in the west, not through pride, over a civilisation we did not build, and perhaps are yet to even contribute towards. I respect him for putting the regressive side of the right on full blast, just as he does with the regressive side of the left.

[@honoraryanglo2929]

Having pride inst the same as taking credit for someone else work, its having an appreciation and a desire to continue their legacy for the benefit of the society you live in, this genuinely what geniuses desire to do, they acknowledge the shoulders they stand upon and desire to make other people's lives better in some way, how selfish and backwards would we be as a society if we kept all our accomplishments to ourselves

[@dumass048]

That's not pride then, that's everything else you listed

[@bruv1039]

Yeah jp did his best to explain how his overwhelming admiration of those acheivements differs from pridefulness.

[@scottleckie3148]

Why would you only take responsibility for something you didn't do (but rather your ancestors) and yet not take pride for the same? If you're proud of it, you're more likely and more justified to take responsibility for it. And, then, he jumps to "skin" colour; that's not what Nationalist (of any repute) take "pride" in. Furthermore, the "gift" of "Western greatness" is not entirely "unearned" if our Forefathers created it so that we might inherit it. It's not about skin.

[@hydraelectricblue]

Exactly it's not about skin . So all skin colors inherited it not just white people.

[@kingkold1000]

@@hydraelectricblue Exactly, and that which we've inherited isn't all down to "western culture" or it's European forefathers.

[@syedali-rs8cj]

Scott Leckie No you are not blamed for what crimes some of your ancestors committed and you are not credited for what your ancestors accomplished you make your decisions for what you will be credited/discredited for.

[@mindymiller3270]

BTW - I do love you Jordan! Most of your answers are spot on. I do understand you are facing a lot of pressure right now, and how you answer this question could double that. Which only proves how unfair of a monster the anti-European rhetoric really is!

[@anewagora]

I guess it depends on your interpretation of "pride", which seems to be way too flexible as a word in this case. I frankly never find it useful as a word anyways. Why not use a different word? That might change the conversation substantially. Peterson has a good point, just like people today cannot be blamed for slavery hundreds or even thousands of years ago. Maybe instead to get into history properly so we can better appreciate the autonomy, resources and technology we have left today, which is indeed miraculous even with corruption and evil creeping in from the edges. I'm just eternally grateful I have enough autonomy and opportunity in my life to strengthen myself to standing up for what is right. Gratitude over pride, that's probably how I would go about it.

[@invictuspublishinghouse]

The sin of "pride" refers to hubris and arrogance; not a positive attitude towards one's identity.

[@NoahSteckley]

Why the holy hell should you be proud of your identity?

[@invictuspublishinghouse]

Because my identity is who I am. You are literally saying "why take pride in anything other than your actions". It's a completely ridiculous sentiment which attempts to divorce a person from everything that gives their life context and significance.

[@NoahSteckley]

Location doesn't give meaning or significance. Direction does. If you're proud of your identity, then you fear losing that pride if you _change_ that identity. Plus your identity is undoubtedly a horrible wretched shadow of what it could be. You should be proud of the direction your identity is changing into and the potential it has.

[@vintifada7115]

This video is one big strawman basically

[@justinstark5732]

Thorium Identify is too illusive and ever changing to be "who you are"

[@vintifada7115]

Peterson is correct so far as taking comfort in simply knowing that you are white or something else uncontrollable is wrong, but pride in ones people is a different sort of pride than personal pride. It would be best redefined as honor. I basically would like to borrow the asian term of honor your ancestors and the third Christian commandment honor your mother and father for this new definition. Honor your ancestors by doing the best job you can to continue their work and to be moral and build a better civilization. You can’t take pride in their accomplishments, correct, but it would be a shame if you squandered those accomplishments. Rise up Western Man and take heart that you have a clean slate, but you have someone else’s slate to improve upon

[@invictuspublishinghouse]

This is Peterson's biggest blind-spot. My pride as a European amounts to a duty to protect and preserve everything created and built by my ancestors. I do not claim to have built York Cathedral, but I take great pride in knowing that my kinsfolk did.

[@Rhodiac]

Thorium doesn't he also say that, acting that other people matter would make society better and better. Wouldnt you want to be proud if the majority acted like that and produced amazing cultures as a result?

[@scottwilson4798]

well I would argue that you're still placing pride pointlessly on your identity. i think pride is the wrong response for things like that. like he said about a sense of responsibility, i think a more somber response is appropriate when looking at accomplishments of those before us.

[@scottwilson4798]

European Advocate yes i'm implying that because that's often the case when people place a huge importance with regards to their identity on the accomplishments of those before them, over their individuality (or lack there of).

[@scottwilson4798]

European Advocate i just don't buy that it's "natural and healthy". it's very easy to claim something feels natural and if it feels natural it probably satiates some pleasure system in the brain and so you tell yourself its good for you. You could argue watching porn every day is natural and healthy on that basis. And then your point of groups of people not caring about their history, that's my point. It's ok to CARE about your history, obviously. it's encouraged, there's lessons to be learnt and great things about which to learn - but blind pride for 'where you come from', even having learnt your history (which most won't do properly), and propping your identity up on that with pride is just absurd. Pride is just not the right response in my view

[@scottwilson4798]

I might add that it works both ways, i'm not saying at all to be clear you should feel shameful or anything like that for being white/european/black/whatever - things like the ideas of white priveldge are just terrible for trying to bring shame on groups just because of some past actions of the group. My view is more that you should ground yourself in you, not some group identity you or someone else assigns to you. so don't feel any sort of past shame for the sins of those before you, but equally you shouldn't go feeling any sense of ownership towards the achievements of your group in the past

[@redpillgermany2162]

My ancestors where proud of their ancestors and I am proud of them. Period. Who the hell does he think he is? It is a strawman to say that right-wingers think that they built the medieval cathedrals, themselves. Nobody thinks that. Our ancestors did that. And because we are proud of them and their deeds, we will defend their heritage. How is that false pride or unearned? Who said we earned anything for these things? We earned it if we can save it!

[@wadut7261]

"Who said we earned anything for these things?" How about that: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_pride You are talking about pride in another context. Peterson took pride in the context of the seven deadly sins and you very likely take it as a feeling of honor towards your ancestors which isn't the same.

[@torkel85mal68]

You are right - you are right Germans are a part of Europe, a proud Nation and we are all proud of You btw here is the link to a proud german song enjoy - du bist recht Deutsche sind das Teil von Europa ein Stolzes Volk und Wir sind alle stolz auf Sie kzbin.info/www/bejne/bp3HgZ-gmt2Vl7M .

[@dardalion3199]

I love JP, but for obvious reasons he has to tread carefully with this topic and be more PC than he usually is. "These things originated in the middle east" I know some originated there, but has he not heard of ancient Greece and Rome?

[@gracelikos1734]

He knows that almost everything originated in Greece and Rome but he is afraid to say it. At this stage he wants to continue to get brownie points from those that have supported and allowed him to flourish.

[@234245]

+Grace Likos "everything originated in Greece and Rome" Let us commence the autism test. So where did the idea of sine and cosine come from? Please elaborate how these two vital trigonometric functions were concepts created by the Greeks and Romans.

[@dardalion3199]

Witch Hunter Tyrus I think he means not everything, but enough to have a healthy amount of pride and respect for those europeans who came before us. Ancient egypt for sure was the progenitor of many greek and roman ideas(esp mathematical and philosophical).

[@Jowdanicus]

It is because he is a Christian and wants to believe that it was his god and religion that created democracy. Its like he doesn't know about the dark ages.

[@stevenponte6655]

He is actually right.

[@TANTHEMANFILMS]

im mixed of cores you can be proud to be European or whatever its you're heritage..

[@vladanlausevic7971]

The idea of West has always changed through time. Before in history Germany was not seen as part of the West

[@Cheeseatingjunglista]

So when do you mean? During the Roman campaigns where the Germanic tribes battered the legions, and the Romans retreated back over the Rhine? Or when Charlemagne and the Franks conquered everything they wanted? When then? Why did you make this up?

[@freckleheckler6311]

Of course it was seen as the west 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@mannypardo5730]

he almost said unearned privilege but paused and said unearned gift instead hahahahaha

[@biggusdickus7089]

You can tell the difference between Middle Eastern architecture and European architecture. I know I can. I am proud of what Europeans have created in this world and I know that they and I are one in the same intellectually I have the capacity to create what they have created

[@pushthetempo2]

What Middle Eastern architecture? A hut made out of some rocks with a goat tied to it. 😆

[@vladanlausevic7971]

Individualism is not an ethnic value. It is a liberal, universal, and civic value that connects people around the world

[@freckleheckler6311]

Yes sure BUT it emerged almost exclusively by the civilization that was cultivated BY westerners. You fool. Making it a WESTERN trait

[@TheFreshestLyrics]

"It came out of the Middle East". What the hell, Mozart, Rembrandt, the great cathedrals and inventions have nothing to do with the Middle East.

[@sadeq001]

TheFreshestLyrics you are correct these people have nothing to do with the east, but the people before them perhaps had something to do with it.

[@TheFreshestLyrics]

@@sadeq001 If you take that path we should credit Africa with everything since that's where our species supposedly originated.

[@sadeq001]

TheFreshestLyrics to some point you are right but I think Peterson is referring to the Judeo-Christian code of ethics which came from the Middle East. For some reason Jesus is viewed as European where actually he is Middle Eastern.

[@Lightnings]

@@sadeq001 True.

[@ArkDesignHD]

I think he probably refers to the fact that the judeo-christian tradition is embedded in much older one, which stems in part from Egyptian culture. For more on that you can listen to his personality Lecture 11 (2017 version), when he talks about Nietzsche, or read his book "Maps of Meaning", in which he cites Eliade by saying "at the beginning of Egyptian history that we find a doctrine that can be compared with the Christian theology of the Logos [or Word]” (Eliade, 1978, pp.89-90)."

[@Nullius_in_verba]

I can't understand who feels sense of guilt about European's culture(or western in general)..Every culture has proven to be able to do good and bad things,at least we are humans; the West had only done both in greater ways..so i feel myself proud about Europe and his culture,history and conquests. Im not physically capable to feel this guilt,only to pitying whoever feels it.

[@kramarancko1107]

You don’t even feel the slightest thing, not even necessarily guilt, about the amount of cultural genocide wrought on every continent of the world by Europe?

[@Nullius_in_verba]

​@@kramarancko1107 Nope, and I would lie stating that i dont care at all, realty is that IMHO westernization is the best thing that could happen in this world. The west is best and all the rest is Barbariae

[@KloneheimBiggums]

the canadian trembles at the thought of the awakened hwhite man

[@angreeee]

You are a pink man, not a white man. Don't lie to yourself.

[@scotiabushcraft9570]

Duchesne is Canadian.

[@hydraelectricblue]

Jordan Peterson is an awakened white man here he is speaking on his awakening.

[@aladinlutfi3256]

That was amazingly well put together! He meant that we shouldn't look at those inventions or acomplishments as a source of self pride, or a pride that only you and some individuals who have the same skin color of the inventor or accomplisher of that thing , but as a human pride. Something to be proud of for the sake of humanity!!!!! To me, this is the way of thought in a futuristic world. Simply amazing!

[@wadut7261]

finally someone who got it. Many here seem to be mixed up because their perception of pride isn't the same as Petersons. And it isn't because Peterson defined pride in the context of the seven deadly sins and not as feeling of honor.

[@syedali-rs8cj]

To add further do something to progress intellectual exploration in a positive manner.

[@prince-electorsnoo2540]

I feel like responsibility could still be a cause for the same actions.

[@dayron9802]

I don't think everyone understood what he stated. Basically, an excessive pride in the accomplishments of your ancestors without you willing to take on responsibility is ridiculous. European pride is something that should drive you to become a responsible individual that will maintain the order within the walls of your city instead of pursuing short-term pleasures or personal interest.

[@luisangel444]

"European Pride should drive you to become responsable..." How about Humility? What should it drive you to become?

[@demsrchildabusers7959]

I didn't make my car either, but I do take pride in it. Is that wrong? Should I just say to heck with changing the oil?

[@LUBAProduktion]

You paid a price for your car. Your work justifies your pride. I think an inherited watch from your father would be a better way of thinking about it.

[@ETBrooD]

Fine, give up your pride. Pride is not required in any of this. But *never* give up your *dignity,* your *rights,* and your *culture.* There are people coming into our countries who want to erase you and me and all of us. Do you ask to be erased from present, past and future? Erased from life? Erased from history? Do you welcome death in life and in history? If that's what you want, if you're ok with being erased, then fine, give up your dignity, give up your rights, give up your culture. But if you losing your dignity also loses me my dignity, if your rights are also my rights, and if your culture is also my culture, and you're ready to give it all up, then you are not my friend and certainly not my ally. Because for evil to win, all that is required is for good men to do nothing. And I say that with all the love and respect I have for you. Because I want to defend you. I want you to exist. Because we share the western world. The most free world that has ever existed. The most prosperous world that has ever existed. If you're willing to give it all up, you will have to accept the consequences. And that is to become irrelevant. I ask you, do not give up your dignity, your rights and your culture.

[@hydraelectricblue]

You probably know less about European history than I do and I'm black. You guys are such a laughing stock.

[@syedali-rs8cj]

Soy wars in what context are you saying never give up your dignity, rights, culture?

[@hydraelectricblue]

@doom. I'm sorry did you have a stroke rebel flag rick?

[@hydraelectricblue]

@doom. I think you meant to say, WE WUZ SUPERIOR AND SHEET.

[@LinusFeynstein]

I think you haven’t understood or listened

[@Trunks47r786]

I like his answer. Be proud of your own accomplishments.

[@Skatapow]

One of the most brilliant things Peterson has ever said, I have always agreed that national pride is a broken concept and JBP's response that it should be actually responsibility and something to live up to instead of pride covers me 100%. Gotta admit, though, it's hilarious how hard tries not to say the word "privilege" even when it's perfectly fitting :P Let go, man!

[@gracelikos1734]

You ask Peterson a very good question regarding Duchesne that he doesn't really answer. It would be very interesting to hear a Q & A with Peterson and Duchesne or just with Duchesne.

[@alkhymy]

Remarkable sophistry by Peterson. Look at him revel in wilfully conflating an idea of "Pride" as brazenly claiming personal credit for prior feats that one had no hand in (as if this is a major thing), with simply the natural desire of any group to form a coherent sense of identity based partly upon a shared cultural inheritance. He knows exactly what he is doing. He would never dare attempt this sort of deconstruction on any group other than those of European heritage.

[@julien.s2002]

Absolutely, spot on.

[@williamcline9335]

no, you're wrong, he just did it to the gays

[@Brdstfff]

I'm proud to be a person of white ancestry. When Humankind moved out of Africa, those who moved the farthest north had to work the hardest to survive. Hard work became part of their DNA. Their hair and skin lightened and they became the people who built the best societies that exist in the world today and EVERYONE IN THE WORLD KNOWS IT.

[@syedali-rs8cj]

...but what have you as an individual accomplished?

[@bar1825]

@@syedali-rs8cj well he can write with caps lock on. That is an accomplishment.

[@lotstolearn5350]

JBP's popularity is due to his comforting western men as they go quietly into the night. He knows that western liberal democracy isn't being upheld & will soon be replaced by a more dominant ideology.

[@tommasobergamaschi4277]

It is surely good to get rid of that but let's hope the new dominant ideology won't be even worse

[@Cheeseatingjunglista]

@@tommasobergamaschi4277 It will

[@tommasobergamaschi4277]

@@Cheeseatingjunglista Yeah, we have to fight that, need more folks like JBP

[@tommasobergamaschi4277]

@Dilligent Yeoman Yeah I wasn't very clear... I was adressing the current state of the West in general, the culture of the last 50 years more or less, which is so bad that it needs to change. I doubt it will change into something good though

[@tommasobergamaschi4277]

@Dilligent Yeoman For the people no, but the intellectuals were already stirring the culture in the direction in which we ended up today

[@lonelytraveller5062]

As an Asian, I agree with Dr. Peterson. This pride on the basis of race or ethnicity is all but rubbish. We have to look at our culture not as a source of pride, but as a source of responsibility on what we have to do to preserve what is good in the past and what we can contribute to the future. And this is my fear on what is happening in the West. The people of the west are now in a societal suicide where it is fashionable to destroy and hate their own heritage. That was wrong. Instead of destroying it, try to buttress it with your own contribution for future generations. I said that because NO ONE will take up your place and pick up the pieces. Don't expect the Asians to pick it up, nor the Blacks or Hispanics or anybody because it took the West centuries upon centuries to build a civilization that is both beautiful and functional, AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. We as non Western people are just beginning to see the beauty of the west and the foundation that makes it great and honestly, non of us can even hold a candle to match that. We all are just standing on the shoulders on those before us, and it is our Responsibility to build it further, not destroying it.

[@olivesama]

"None of us can even hold a candle to match that." I'd disagree quite strongly on that point. Although it isn't wrong to recognize the achievements of the West and to give credit where credit is due.

[@dumass048]

@@olivesama you're wrong

[@olivesama]

@@dumass048 There are various metrics on which the West has been outperformed. So to say no one can hold a candle to it doesn't really make any sense. Unless you're saying I'm wrong to believe that the West deserves any credit, in which case I would ask why would you assert that.

[@baldr2510]

"whats that, your child won a spelling competition and you're PROUD? ITS LIKE NO, NOT GOOD, NOT A GOOD ARGUMENT"

[@otsutsukiindra2647]

I am left-wing but I am pro European pride. Europe has a rich history, higj standard of living, healthcare, some of the best education systems, wonderful landscape and architecture. We have many reasons to be proud of our content. All Europeans (not just western Europe, because many people only mean western Europe when they say Europe) should stay together. British, Irish, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italians, Swiss, Germans, Austrians, Swedish, Norwegians, Finnish, Danes, Dutch, Belgians, Polish, Hungarians, Serbians, Greeks, Czechs, Slovakians, Slovenians, Macedonians, Albanians, Croatians, Bosnians, Romanians, Bulgarians, Belarusians, Ukranians, Russians and all the other ones, I forgot to mention here. I just want Europe to become it's own, independent superpower.

[@cong3768]

im surprised you think this way being a liberal

[@SalTarvitz]

At 5:00 he wanted to say privilege soooo badly, but he swallowed it deep down inside :D

[@curtd59]

He shows his differences as a student of literature versus a student of economics. We defend our inheritances.

[@Reece29287]

I don’t view it as “I DID THAT! ME!” He has it wrong on this one... I see something that should be preserved, protected and revered. It was not ME who did that, I’m not delusional. But it was my people that granted us these monuments, these statues, inventions, ideas... and to let them be swallowed up and destroyed by people who have no connection to any of that, people who actively despise what that represents would be cowardice and shameful. I don’t want America, Canada Europe and places like it to be changed, because I don’t believe that that change would be for the better. But I guess Jordan Peterson wouldn’t be allowed to say anything positive about that mindset, only straw man it at the behest of the corrupted society we all now have to live in.

[@adamftwin]

If you consider yourself an individual (which is what you should according to the greatest psychological thinkers) then feeling pride over something that you didn't do does not make sense, however that abstains from the sense of responsibility of protecting a culture or architecture. Pride for your nation should be felt if you have contributed to it in some regard that the society has positively benefited from it At least that's im interpretation of what he's saying

[@Reece29287]

Adam Hennessy That’s why I don’t and didn’t say that I feel pride for those things. Why would I feel pride in something I did not personally take part in? Just like if your parents pass down an item to you, an item that the family cherishes... you should feel a sense of duty to preserve it in honor of them. Then to teach your children about this item and once you have faith that it will be in good hands you pass it on to them. It’s something that has been around longer than even you have and it keeps the memory of your now long gone ancestors alive, your family values it and what it represents. The history of it. Wether it’s an ornament, a house, a car, a painting, a statue, a clothing item... your family own something that many generations of your family clearly value. That means something. The monuments represent the same thing. Why would a North African who arrived in a European country yesterday feel any care for the monuments or history of the country he has now entered? They don’t see it that way. They wouldn’t even be able to. Those monuments, those pieces of art. They were not made for a random African to revere and admire. It was made for the progenitors of the artist. To honor his country and the country’s offspring. These foreigners coming in have no connection to any of that. It’s why it’s so easy for them to cheer for their destruction/removal. And what do they ALWAYS want in its place? Something that represents THEIR CONNECTION TO HISTORY, THEIR FUTURE. There’s a reason that this sort of thing usually only happens during war or revolution. It’s a changing of the guard, and I don’t like where that change is leading towards.

[@yungfaas6688]

Here's the thing though. I think it's so arrogant to claim those monuments, statues and ideas and I do feel that's what you're doing. It's hard for me too to not claim that. I revere Rembrandt, Vermeer, de Witt and Spinoza but I shouldn't try to claim them as something that belongs to me and my contemporaries.

[@yungfaas6688]

Not that many people want to destroy it. A very small percentage (extremists who fight in Syria, crazy people like that). More people dislike it tough, that's true.

[@Reece29287]

Isaac Abrahamsz Massa then you’re either misnterpreting what I’m saying or deliberately twisting it so that you can claim that I’m arrogant. I don’t see how you can read my position and come to that conclusion without it being fueled by deceptive motives in order to make you correct. Maybe you’re too caught up in this wannabe intellectual individualism idea, I don’t know... And actually a lot of people are trying to tear everything down. Its not even just the sheer numbers of people that are hands on taking it upon themselves to destroy monuments, it’s the people that cheer it on in person or social media, the institutions and billions of dollars given to this cause that help facilitate and worsen this, the educational systems and media that aggravate and mislead people into believing it’s a just and righteous cause. There are far too many people that crave the destruction of the western world and in particular white civilization. As Trump said in his Mount Rushmore speech early July. Some people have no idea why they are doing this, but some know EXACTLY what they are doing. At some point I think it’s more important to try and preserve the culture my ancestors built than get caught up in prancing around as a virtuous intellectual.

[@vadoksam9235]

I am not proud, rather protectful towards the achievements of my European ancestors. Thus I am proud to have descended from those whom were fundamental to the creation of Free Speech, Individualism, and Democracy itself. Then millions of Europeans spilled each other's blood in relentless wars upon which the defense of those ideas was often at heart. Their sacrifices will not be in vain and I will not be put down by false claims of misplaced pride. Long live Europa as long as its values live.

[@mouseysmak]

I don't think he's talking about the people who take their pride as a responsibility (or at least I hope he's not). If he is then I don't think he quiet gets it. We don't seat ourselves where our ancestors sit, we aspire to be continue the legacy of achievement they started.

[@IOPhaser]

good video

[@copticvillage]

+1 respect

[@TheArrangment]

Be proud of what you have done, not what someone else did.

[@andrejcccc]

Pride is a useful weapon in times of hardship. And i dont mean Pride in some structures or inventions, but being proud of former generations. Im from the balkans and pride is tied to duty. Your duty to take up arms in the face of overwhelming odds is easier as you are constantly reminded of your ancestors sacrifices and proud of them. It has given us the strength to keep fighting when all seems lost and the notion that our children will be proud of us thereby continuing the fight because it's their duty. The ottomans occupied us for centuries and without pride our identities would be erased long ago. In short, pride in others accomplishments can be necessary and serve for the better

[@wadut7261]

@@andrejcccc Yes but the kind of pride you describe isn't the same as Peterson did since he referred to it in the context of the seven deadly sins.

[@Blank-km4qr]

My opinion on the subject is that to be proud of being European or to be white doesn’t make sense neither for any race on that matter. What I would say is that you should be happy to be White/ European as one is happy for be born into the family that they are from. To be happy to be apart of your family doesn’t mean you look down on other families or wish to do harm to other families. I think this way for all peoples.

[@haterade3.029]

As a man of European decent, I'm proud of what my ancestors accomplished

[@allstarlord9110]

Democracy which is the base of western culture and the only political system that while is not perfect is the only one that gives value to both the individual and the group came from Greece thus Europe not the midlle east.But Jordan Peterson is absolutely right and you can especially see his point in my country.We glorify our past and fail to see the shit we face today.I ve many times heard politicians say whenever a foreigner prime minister or whatever crititize us say ''when we were writing philosophy you were crawling in the mud'' and mamy people will agrree with them.I find that way of thinkin in Greek society really really stupid

[@jama3335]

I think I understand JBP point here. Claiming credit for the discovery of individualism is like claiming credit for being a descendent of the human tribe that discovered fire. Admiration for the individuals ability to solve a problem faced by him or herself and others is more appropriate than “pride”. Correct me if I’m wrong.

[@MrTempest2009]

Ha, he's spot on, the we did this, we did that people are some of the lowest thinking troglodytes in our societies, clinging desperately to a sense of superiority based on what individuals have done in the past. "We kicked the Germans ass" it's 2018, you're 29, you didn't do shit. Its easier to recite and fantasize about grandure than go out into the world and making or attempting to make a difference. All of that achieved in the past is something to live up to or motivate you but people don't want to adopt the responsibility of trying to live up to "it" as It's much easier to feel a sense of status, superiority or achievement by referencing what others HAVE DONE in the past.

[@thomaswillhoite7523]

Gawd why is the moderator talking for 5.5 minutes?!?!

[@rankoorovic7904]

I am a Slav so can anyone please tell me why would i be required to apologise for the fact that Great Britain,France and Spain had colonies in Africa?

[@wonjubhoy]

The sjws think whites are a monolith.

[@rankoorovic7904]

@@wonjubhoy They think black people are a monolith.

[@rhenierkloppers8870]

So what he's saying is it would be wrong to have pride in something you're not upholding, so you shouldn't be proud of what your culture has done but rather realize the burden and uphold yourself to it, only then can you be proud of it, so the pride shouldn't be a source of comfort but rather a source of discomfort due to the struggle of upholding yourself to it? It's almost like being a medieval king's son, you're definitely going to be a very busy person to uphold yourself to that image, going to war, being tutored by wise men etc. it's a grandiose life but not necessarily a easy one. I don't know if that makes any sense.

[@Meggo55555]

Amen

[@praisehermie9124]

and THIS is why Iove this man. :)

[@ryanhuntrajput474]

@Mr Polish he is not antiwhite. he believes in the God given natural rights to human beings.

[@KingOfShadows1500]

Shouldn't Peterson of all people know that race is much more than just ''skin color''? We Europeans share the DNA of the people who built those amazing masterpieces that he mentions and therefore, we also share whatever dispositions made them great. Also, there are different kinds of pride: there is pride of accomplishment, but there is also pride of being; I would describe pride of being as a sentiment of profound contentment that one may experience at the contemplation of his or her own condition. Tribal/national/racial pride belongs to that category, for although membership to a tribe, to a nation or to a race are not accomplishments, it may inspire a strong sense of belonging that naturally produces a feeling of deep satisfaction.

[@Topsnbottoms]

Priviliges are based on responsibility

[@CJusticeHappen21]

Ashes of Fathers Temples of Gods

[@kieranmoynihan1161]

It seems to me that JBP missed the essence of the question. He disagreed with the particular way it was phrased “pride in European culture”, and stated his, I think, correct criticism very eloquently. I sense, however, that when the term “pride” was used, it was more meant in the sense that JBP was talking about: believing in and standing up for the bedrock principles that lead to the development of the European culture. No, people should not be “proud” of their culture, but perhaps they should stand with it and bear it stalwartly as a beneficial and great culture to carry forward.

[@alansands256]

I rarely disagree with Jordan Peterson, and I do understand what he's trying to say. But when it comes to sensitive subjects like race we seem to forget that pride in every other context often has more than one use, which most of us don't seem to have a problem with. When a parent says they are proud of their child nobody ever says "why are YOU proud? You didn't win that spelling bee, that's his accomplishment not YOURS." And the reason nobody says that is because we usually know what the parent means. We know that they're not taking credit. And that's typically the same usage of the concept when people Express Pride and where they came from.

[@bluebird5173]

In the same vein, a parent can be ashamed of their child for doing something wrong even if the parent himself/herself didn't commit the act. Likewise, white people can also be ashamed of the bad aspects of their history and use that shame as a sort of guide for ensuring they'll never do it again.

[@arnoldbomber9152]

A big part of this egrigous argument is the semantics around the word "pride'. Being proud of a son vs. proud of being white are two entirely different things yet we assign the same word to both. Taking pride in your work vs being a prideful person is another example. When I say I am proud to be an American I dont mean that I see all other cultures as inferior. It means I recognize and am humbled by what my forefathers sacrificed and built for me to live the way that I do and that Ill do my best to preserve and progress their work. I think JP articulates this point well.

[@blipskrjolt]

Individualism is narcissism by another name

[@TorMax9]

Yes, but when we Europeans, Westerners, try to defend and maintain the robust individualism society that we gratefully inherited - and the very reason non-Westerners want to come here en masse: life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - we are accused to "white supremacy" because we don't want to buckle under a collectivist, tyrannical, bureaucratic system. Are we to give up our - and our children's and grandchildren's - liberties out of a sense of guilt? Because someone might call us a nasty name if we don't?

[@muhamedaneren4997]

Why the media never portray this site of JP:(?

[@romanobenini3331]

I dont understand the problem. I m italian , i know well the history and the past and the heritage and the local common culture that is the ambient where we live . So i feel my identity, my habits and my way of life as a strong part of my personality. I know Who i am because i know my heritage and my character so i can feel the difference . When i meet an american or canadian guy it s easy to notice how i m different. Not better or worse. But only different. My relation with food , fashion ,time , family , history , architetture , work ,culture is quite different. I feel different. In Italy we said: the World is beautiful because is different. The global uniformity is the anteroom of the end of the human kind . I respect an american guy just because is american with his Own culture an not because he is like me . We are not proud but aware. For example : in the Peterson s words, books or thoughts is really easy to notice the influence of the north european protestant ethics and culture . Because this is the culture and the heritage of his family and ancestors. I m italian and catholic , and i have different opinions , thoughts and values from Mr Peterson. What is the problem ?? We are our past . White supremacy ? I m italian and We are the cradle of Europe but many americans believe that we are “ not white “ 😂 😱 bunch of idiots

[@weina123]

Americans don't really know what they're talking about

[@justins7796]

That's some big ass water bottles.

[@Zetto129]

There are two kinds of pride: 1. you are a loafer, no-lifer, basement dwelling no gooder who bashes hist chest about "look what my people did" 2 you understand that without your work that what you are proud of, the heritage you were given" is bound to lay in ruins in a couple of decades. You adopt responsibility for your own heritage, and not only pride of it. I believe this is what Peterson were trying to say.

[@LatifAskiaBa]

He didn't ask him a question.

[@7summerbeauty]

I think that peter is overhyped and whatever he says people take it to them heart My advice for everyone People make mistakes Its very wrong to idolize peter and think whatever he says must be right You have the right to think differently and otherwise

[@Jowdanicus]

I love Jordan Peterson, but when he says that modern western political philosophy is based on Judeo-Christian ideas it makes me feel sick. Everything good about western politics comes from the rediscovery of Greco-Roman ideas during the Renaissance. That was knowledge destroyed and forbidden by Christians. So if anything, I would blame Christianity for the historical retardation of Democracy.

[@dm-gq5uj]

The monks in the Dark Ages preserved many Greco-Roman ideas. We would not know of many Greek philosophizers and dramatists if monks had not painstakingly transcribed their works . If you think those texts just magically reappeared during the Renaissance, after being lost for 1000 years, well, your historical knowledge has some pretty big gaps. The roots of Western tradition lie in Greece, Rome - and Jerusalem - and to downplay the latter because you have a bug up your rear about Christianity is simply ignorant bigotry.

[@alex-sv8ru]

That's right. European thought is european, not Jewish

[@vebjsand]

I'm not sure if Jordan is holding back on answering what he actually believes to avoid an outrage, or if he's just blinded by his temper in the moment. His answer didn't dig deeper into important points, but more importantly following the logic he gives in this interview; it goes against many of the things he preaches, like collective guilt amongst many other. But I'll grant him that almost no North-American intellectual really grasps european culture(and pride within that), hell even the east-Asians and Oceanians does a much better job at it. Which I think says alot about how North-America have spun off into this extremely chaotic maelstrom(for both good and bad) and can't really get their head out of it to see the relatively calm ocean around. I know that's not very descriptive of what I'm trying to get across, but some of you will get it.

[@gracelikos1734]

Peterson is fundamentally wrong that Whites should not cherish their past and their ancestors; he wrongly assumes that if whites show pride for their ancestors it means they are claiming their achievements as their own; no, it means showing respect, showing that you take pride in what they did and you wish to protect it from massive immigrantion which is destroying this heritage. See Prof. Duchesne's critique of Peterson in his Free Bird and Molyneux Interviews, where he addresses Peterson's neo-con interpretation of the West.

[@hydraelectricblue]

You're missing the fact that many people with brown skin are maintaining and contributing to Western civilization more than you are.

[@sizlackjones9548]

The reason for the massive immigration is due to the actions your leaders take on the third world and the exploration or resources for example AFRICA.! You have no control over this Europe is doomed soon you will be the minority!

[@ROMA--AETERNA]

Very well said. The previous two comments are quite hateful.

[@joeedwards3100]

Look if Europeans cant have pride in who they are then blacks, Asians and middle eastern people shouldnt either. I see more Africans in the states that take pride in their heritage like fighting through slavery and discrimination of the past even though they werent alive or apart of the movements and I think thats fine (with whole months dedicated to certain people and their achievements). Another thing is, why should our people and governments apologize for the atrocities of the past we personally didnt do it? With that mind set.

[@user-ip8bw7gt2x]

@@joeedwards3100 This isn't about the rest of the world Its about yours Sort your shit out instead of the chidlish "Well they do it too!"

[@MoisePicard-mk1nt]

I have European pride as a Haitian man of French ancestry. 🇭🇹🇫🇷👊

[@dikshant3396]

I lost it when he said MIDDLE EAST

[@Jkp1321]

What all of you disliking have missed it that Dr. Peterson's point is that responsibility is preferable to pride because to be responsible for your civilization is humbling as you become a humble defender and steward of your tradition. To take pride is to instead take credit for your tradition and feel good about it but such self-centered feelings can lead to extremes like extreme nationalism and ethnic nationalism that becomes illiberal

[@VittamarFasuthAkbin]

I really like his response to this

[@MoisePicard-no9by]

I am proud to be Haitian of 100% French ancestry. 🇫🇷🇭🇹

[@bIaZze778]

Straw-man.

[@ETBrooD]

The question itself is a strawman. The real issue is *dignity.* Should we give up our dignity because of what our ancestors did? The answer is "no". Should we lay down our weapons against any and all aggressors and give up our culture and our rights because of what our ancestors did? The answer is "no". Our right to respect ourselves, to hold ourselves in high regard, to preserve what we and our ancestors accomplishes, must not be taken by anyone. We have the right to protect all of it. We have the right to block invasive cultures and laws if that is neccessary to preserve ours, just like they have the right to block our culture and law if we were to invade them. Our freedom ends where their freedom begins? Then their freedom ends where our freedom begins, too. The latter is the issue. It has been taken from us. Our right to preserve our freedom, and that includes the freedom to culture, is under direct attack.

[@wolfmayner6274]

Well said.

[@marekglowacki2607]

sounds like George Carlin on national pride

[@wildflower1737]

I don't take pride in things I didn't accomplish and on the flip side of that coin, I don't feel shame for things I didn't do either. Any time I oppose mass immigration, someone tries to say I am a hypocrite because I've done the same thing. 1st of all, what my ancestors did was entirely different because anywhere they went, they built the place up and made something out of nothing. They made societies people all over the globe try to get to. What these migrants are doing is completely different. But the fact of the matter is that I did not personally invade any countries and try to rob them of their cultures. These people invading western countries ARE doing that and SHOULD feel personally responsible for it.

[@olivesama]

Nobody ever "made something out of nothing". They were always carrying something with them upon which they could instill further cultivation. It's not clear to me that today's migrants and immigrants are somehow fundamentally different in that regard. Where did your ancestors go, and how was that less of an "invasion" than what is happening now?

[@wolfmayner6274]

People are completely missing the point of what he was trying to say. His argument here isn't that we should feel no attachment to our culture. He's not saying that we should abandon our instinct to live up to what the greatest members of our societies have accomplished. He's not saying that we should "hand over our nation to the Muslims and let them take over and establish shariah law" or any of that nonsense (In fact he's gone on MANY times about the uncertainty and the dangers of letting people into the culture who aren't aligned with it. For fuck's sake, one of the most pivotal ideas within "Maps of Meaning" is that people are strongly attached to their value structures, and that that's no trivial matter. He had an entire talk not too long ago about the importance of the right wing in today's society... did you all miss that or something?). What he's simply arguing is that the people who use their skin color or their ethnicity to fuel a sort of prideful arrogance about them are doing a disservice not only to themselves but to the culture they come from. These types of people, ironically, are often those of lower intelligence who use this "unearned gift" (ie. privilege - NOT TO BE CONFUSED NECESSARILY WITH THE CONCEPT OF WHITE PRIVILEGE AS MADE UP BY THE LEFT) to hide the fact that they aren't even pulling their own weight in the culture they take claim of so pridefully. He's taking a jab at all of the people who go on internet boards and hark on about how "white people are the best because we invented everything dur dur dur!" and the others who say stupid shit like "I'm proud to be American because we invented freedom of speech!" - no... Americans didn't "invent freedom of speech". A select few highly philosophically educated Americans, in positions of power and political authority, instantiated the idea of freedom of speech into the constitution; an idea that was formulated by many people over many decades or even centuries before they appropriated it for themselves (and rightfully so). You could say the same about just about anything good about ANY culture: just about anything that's actually worthwhile, beautiful, or revolutionary about a society comes from a very, very, VERY small number of people who are absolute geniuses, if not heroes. The key idea is that attributing the virtues that have risen to the top of our culture over centuries of trial and error to your own race (as if your race were the only ones with those virtues or the only ones to develop them, within or outside of the society itself) is a seriously self-serving and incredibly un-nuanced position. Peterson isn't saying we shouldn't be proud of UPHOLDING and FURTHERING our culture, in fact I think he would argue outspokenly that we SHOULD feel a sense of pride for respecting and continuing the European tradition (which he's quite obviously an admirer of; if you think he isn't you're a fucking moron), he's just saying that from a rational standpoint, it's a foolish thing to feel as if it were some sort of skill or accomplishment or birthright to be born either a certain skin color or as a member of a certain ethnicity, when from a biological standpoint, there's very little that's actually different about any of us. I feel as if most of the people reading this would agree, and Peterson would as well. You should consider that he addressed this question after speaking for multiple hours on a completely different subject, being berated by a student with a REALLY stupid question, and also had no preparation or time to think about what he was trying to answer. Even if he didn't directly address the question as it were, that doesn't mean that whatever rant he went on was necessarily false or irrational. You try speaking for 2 hours about something complex and hard to grasp and then answer an even more complex question over something completely unrelated, while on the spot in front of dozens of people. Good luck. Cut him some slack; it's not like this video is of him debating someone over these issues, where he's given a fair platform to respond to criticism and self-correct. Anybody can come on a video and post a "sick burn" in the comment box and then walk away feeling like a genius. Things wouldn't go so smoothly for most of you if you debated this with him face to face (and we all know, you probably wouldn't - especially those childish enough to call him insulting, disgusting names, unjustifiably). George Carlin - kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4DQgoNvnNp8opI

[@germ4663]

I disagree with sexy JP on this

[@farinatadegliuberti8461]

"It come out from the middle east". This guy is quite confused. He thinks Greece and Italy are in the middle east. Now at least I know why they have Trudeau in that country.

[@jayoven3670]

1:45 The medieval Europeans where also indoctrinated by the church to fight its crusade wars, under the very same religious doctrine. I'd take their medieval 'values' with a grain of salt.

[@torkel85mal68]

We are an extantion to European achievement - We are Europe - although our ancestors have passed we maintain and grow their achievement by our taxes, our work and our mentality giving the spirit and example to new generations. I am proud to be European of its Roman Law, Democracy, Individualism - as anyone who is proud to be Nigerian, American, Chinese. We White People of Europe are the next and the only reasonable step , we are the future of Europe Not Africans and not Asians although I consider those with European mentality/ christianity a part of Europe and Us. I do reject all those with middle eastern faith excluding buddhism, taoizm, christianity /mentality as well with american indonezian or African - if they do not accept our way of life - Well if that is the case they have their own home they can stay and mentality of their own and it should be this way. Europe is not only the money and peace it is the law, mentality religion - christians only. So if somebody do not accept that go to Kongo or Pakistan and be happy. We the White&Christian Europeans - The Majority - not used by leftist/globalist propaganda minority is responisible for wellbeing of Europe - What can a Canadian say about Europeans and our Pride when he and his ancestors did not endure the dirty communism and inhuman nazism - books will not give him upringing of Europeans nor our mentality . What can an Afro American say about Europe when he was sold by his own African brothers and yet he still blame those who opened his shakles - Abraham Lincoln was this man his christian faith and law inherited from Europe/France/ Rome. His only inheritence an resentment and afrorasizm agaist whites and asians , What can any globalist say when he wants us in one bag. We are living in times when The only race of people that can be hated and the only that cannot be proud of their ancestry are Whites - See what Beyonce is doing, how she is promoting that black race saying that it is the most beautiful race on the planet. When the White say that well you know what is the response. What when Oprah Winfrey is talking about a rape on black girl 70 years past but will not say about a rape on white girl by afro-american perpetrators few years back. When she is happy that White rich man will die off is that not an afrorasizm (afrizm - is a good name for this hate speech) BE PROUD TO BE BLACK ok but do not disrespect other races like Asians who are far better off and commiting far less crime, well just adding a statistic. I AM WHITE , AND I WISH THAT ALL EUROPEAN WHITE PEOPLE ARE OR WILL BE PROUD OF WHO THEY ARE - / OF THEIR ANCESTORS and In the same time do not stop to work for our European Home, do not forget about atrocities commited by Stalin, Hitler Leopold II of Belgium, Lenin and Others not to ask for forgivenes by other people and races but to learn where is the distinction between pride and hubris a just rage when defending others and injustice born in pain frustration and resentment. Be proud but humble, striving for good but not afraid of saying what you want to say when attacked by leftist/ afroracist / whiteleftists and ekoterrorists and others who only see evil in You. Other than that happy new Year My Fellow Europeans Brothers and Sisters - Ps there are only two genders ;DDD

[@syedali-rs8cj]

It is silly to be proud of any nationality, be proud of your job and your education things you actually work at.

[@cong3768]

@@syedali-rs8cj are you European???

[@fermentedsourdough5462]

In the Middle East ? Persia certainly, but not in any Arab or Turkish culture. Rumi, in Konya, was Persian. So was Omar Khayam.