How Many Gods Are There? | Biblical Series: Exodus

[@skyazrael5487]

"Wait a minute we're not agreed. I was agreeing with you because you were disagreeing with him. ". 😆. That was a hilarious line.

[@truth3229]

The west is still trapped in its pagan dream, when will it end? The Romans deified Jesus to maintain their pagan, lucrative human-worship that boosted their economy but ultimately led to their downfall when the they fell too far in their self-worship. This cursed interpretation of Christianity, which prioritizes human worship, statues and images of human men and women who resembles the people of their own ethnicity, has unconsciously inspired men and women to be gods themselves, creating the countries with the greatest wealth but causing even greater economic crises as a result! This twisted pagan interpretation of Christianity is followed even by those who are atheists, its the Mother of extremist leftist and right-wing ideologies, who all share the fraternal bond rooted in the shared belief that people - or at least certain groups of people - are inherently good. They call themselves christians and wair the cross proudly on their chest, and they curse the romans for crucifying Christ, but they do not understand that they themselves are the pagan Romans, who worship images of themselves, human statues, idols, and sacrifice others for their sins! They claim to love ‘humanity’ in the name of christ but can only percieve the group they belong to as the true essence of humanity. The western world has been in a cycle of Repentence, economic growth, self-worship, economic downfall, sacrificing, repentence. Have they not nailed enough Prophets to their cross? Have they not nailed enough syrians and iraqis to their cross? Have they not nailed enough Africans to their cross? Have they not nailed enough Indians to their cross? Have they not nailed enough Asians to their cross? Have they not nailed enough Jews to their cross? They eat themselves into nihilism, economic crisis and war, and can only be forced into humility by war! Not by god, for they think they are God and his angels. After sacrificing millions of innocent lives, they achieve an economic recovery fueled by humility and guilt, after which they shake religion off, and go for another round of self-worship.

[@gailhill8391]

Looks like somebody got censored under this comment. Gee I wonder what they said. Not hard to guess. Prager is a Jew. So.......there's that. How about FREE SPEECH youtube?

[@9FisterSpit9]

😂What a blessing to see the words talk.

[@TheShamanicHealerGod]

Dennis is wrong so often it’s quite comical

[@icarovdl]

When does this line appear

[@roninstrength1883]

This is incredibly moving. The fact that this is somewhere on the internet, and people engage in it, restores my faith in the internet working for something more than self indulgence.

[@Boykot1]

This is the much more clean self indulgence which people stray away from :D

[@leversandpulleys9274]

you'll be happy knowing many young people are also engage in it

[@MojoVince]

How old is internet? How old its use is popular? Well it still young so i'm not surprise it's getting better even if i fear for the young, the content looks decerebrating.

[@clairey6407]

Agreed!

[@itoibo4208]

Watching them debate the existence of gods is like watching kids argue about pokemon characters. sigh, we still live in the dark ages.

[@lazytrucker7341]

This is far more valuable than what I can express. Thank you for having the courage to post this.

[@lochnessmonster5149]

Feeling anger is not your responsibility, but persisting in that state of anger and letting it control your words and actions is.

[@GabrielGarcia-eu6vr]

Love to see these type of discussions where people are REALLY figuring it out, bouncing ideas and beliefs back and forth and exploring these topics.. Absolutely Masterful.

[@Hannah-fe4yf]

What this conversation reminds me of is when C.S. Lewis proposed in the Screwtape Letters that demon’s aim is to make you more like them and in that way devour you, which is the antithesis of what Christian’s believe God wants for us, to become more like God and at the same time become fully ourselves. Peterson explains you get possessed by spirits of anger or lust, which could be conceptualized as demons only they are a part of us or we are becoming more a part of them, something like that.

[@josephmedina6403]

I thought God was a punishing God but your own actions get you to heaven or hell by free will .

[@Youttubeuser20932]

@@josephmedina6403free will doesnt exist. That’s an illusion.

[@boyangirginov6043]

The intellectual levels of these conversations is an absolute gift to mankind, thank you Mr. Peterson for these priceless eye-opening, intellectually stimulating debates that the world needs desperate to hear, before it is fully engulfed by chaos, malevolence and vice (disguised as virtuous).

[@Small_child_punter]

This is what i want to absorb myself more in. Men having discourse around a table about stuff that truly matters.

[@leejennifercorlewayres9193]

Research traditional Catholicism and exorcism. Learn the nature of humans and what vices we must overcome. Devils work to make us fail at this quest. It's exactly what they attack.

[@g_g...]

Are you serious? This is basically a bunch of friends talking about their favorite works of literature.

[@samuelrojo8435]

@@g_g... you're mistaken about that, The bible which is the word of God is not just another work of literature. It is much more.

[@g_g...]

@@samuelrojo8435 yeah, it's much more. It's a book that started many wars, has provoked political corruption, made crazy people justify their crazy actions, has caused many to be tortured and killed, etc. I don't really care what you think about it. It's a book of ridiculous claims that has created suffering and peace around the world. It's a horrible book. I can think of many other books that has granted peace, but no suffering.

[@sarahm8574]

​@@g_g...You sound very unhappy

[@stendaalcartography3436]

I just love how the words being spoken is quite chaotic yet the conversation never stalls and there's delicious ordering of correcting disagreements. So good. This was truly walking in the line of chaos and order. I had to pause the vid to savor the moment. Damn.

[@josephmedina6403]

Idk where Jordan Peterson came up with the anger God ! Maybe from the Aztecs ,Ozomatle was the god of mayhem and chaos However my knowledge and beliefs fall in different catergories

[@MojoVince]

Wow, this quality of debate and reflexions can bring me to Church.

[@djvn229]

seek God for yourself. call on Jesus. Let Him lead you. bless ya.

[@alqadiri92]

Churches are empty, mosques are full

[@maverick7291]

The certain church fathers including saint Augustine has talked like this as well.

[@josephmedina6403]

Why Me Lord - Johnny cash

[@kodoan411]

Thank you all. This video has, quite possibly, more value than anything else that I've seen on youtube. I feel more knowledgeable for it and will strive to glean wisdom from it.

[@reginaclaire4680]

i love when you make these conversations free.

[@Rodrasroom]

I love how Jordan breaks everything down with such logic. He’s got Paul’s gift.

[@bonitabromeliads]

His arguments constantly use logical fallacies based in cognitive biases and circular thinking. That's the opposite of logic.

[@Rodrasroom]

@@bonitabromeliads what are the fallacies you presume?

[@alvareo92]

@@bonitabromeliadssure, pal. That is why he’s directly helped so many people out of utter misery

[@ChumX100]

@@bonitabromeliads care to name a few?

[@mewmew1591]

​​@@alvareo92is a good person and a better proffesional, and this has no relation to his debate skills

[@70Grande]

Wow. People having intelligent discussions about ideas they don't agree with! No anger, or cursing, screaming. It's beautiful to see. They could be discussing what type of apple is the best and it would be a great conversation. I feel better just listening to the English language at this level. Brilliant.

[@Madonnalitta1]

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain an idea without excepting it" - Aristotle.

[@g_m15]

Evil offers us evil anger? WE choose to feel it! There is good anger, which is "wanting justice but not revenge"

[@marcodontplay]

The Cain and Abel breakdown at the end by Jordan Peterson is profound. I always wondered why God never accepted Cain's sacrifices (lol was God anti-vegetarian) but its not about the rejection its about how we handle the failure and move forward.

[@Adam2-13]

It’s very simple God decides what is pleasing to him it is not our right to be jealous God even said if you do what is right will you not be accepted? It was Caine own jealousy and anger that was the issue he did not do what was right by not humbling himself before God and accepting Gods will no he grew angry and hated his brother and it lead him to murder Able and it was about sacrifice God was pleased by able and his sacrifice so all cane had to do was follow his brother’s example and offer what he knew was pleasing to God because by that point he understood what would please him he just didn’t care

[@RafaFandos]

This is gold. These type of debates/discussions are what is needed.

[@Murtaza-Shiraz]

I testify that Jordan is brilliant! So I was facing a problem in my life. Felt stuck, and didn't know how to deal with it. But then I did something strange. I attempted to conceptualize my thoughts and feelings as demons/angels rather than mere neurological impulses and drives. I mentally imagined a metaphorical world where I was interacting with these demons and angels. I heard them and I responded to them. I played out various scenarios. The process felt somewhat like a dream. Amazingly, this exercise helped me to arrive at a practical real life solution for my problem. Viewing my thoughts and feelings in this way felt so much more natural. I do not know whether the demons/angels are just metaphorical or actually real, but to conceptualize them as such has been extremely effective for me.

[@luisarcigaharo2481]

How did you decide which were the demons and which were the angels?

[@Murtaza-Shiraz]

@@luisarcigaharo2481 Good question. The one's who took me closer towards my purpose vs the one's those who distracted me away from it. As for my purpose, it is something that I have identified and defined for myself.

[@MoiLiberty]

6:55 Jonathan Pageau rips off the bandaid and asks the question to Dennis. Then another gentleman asks him again. Dennise ultimately says he has to explore that. Classic.

[@clairey6407]

Wow, this is so interesting. It's wonderful to hear this kind of thing discussed. I think there are probably many of us that contemplate and sense these things but perhaps don't have the knowledge and the vocabulary that these men do to really grapple with it fully in the way we would want to. It's really exciting to hear this!

[@RichardNzBanda]

The notion that e.g. Anger exists with or without us, within us and outside of us... from us having the power to give ourselves to it or not to... and the overiding impact it has on us when it is in control... 🤯

[@QueenGaGa]

Indeed, we are accountable for our deeds, the Bible is very clear about that, saying we allways have the possibility to choose the right thing. If a person is possessed by a spirit of anger, that doesn't necessarily mean this person is possessed by a demon of anger, in most cases it just points to that person's own spirit, that person's way of thinking. That's why the Bible say we must change or renew our (way of) thinking. We must reprogram our brain, by overiding that anger, or any other negative spirit.

[@V21IC]

To me that's not such a bright idea. Hunger have the same traits. Just because of hunger, people kill, rob, and shoot! That doesn't make hunger a god. We are the ones who exalt certain behaviors, addictions, etc. and thus giving them power! We are building idols! We are making gods that we later personify and use as justification for doing wrong! For example, a sexual worker or prostitute, is now have Social Security, and is registered as legal workers would. The reasoning is these women need to survive. Some have families that they must provide for. It's their right to work to feed, provide for themselves and family; and not become a burden on society! The competition is strong since young men have entered the arena too as sexual workers; and even young school girls! Now the focus is on the needs, necessities, survival, not dying from hunger; and the those rights! That's putting other gods before the One True God who is Provider, Healer, and Father! There's One God. We may call anything, or person a god but still there's Only One True God who is to worshipped and praise. To Him we humbly bow in adoration and praise. He is All Powerful!

[@povoq83]

I love JP coming up with biblical stories to explain facts. The bible is a sword, and JP know how to use it.

[@JohnWilliams-channel]

The old testament god was a mass murderer. Funny how God is always invoked when there is lots of killing to do.

[@soulpure8663]

It is not the Bible is sword. The sword is the WORD of God. Not all in the Bible were words of God. It has a story of an evil angel and humans deeds.

[@JesusIsMaster777]

Except he doesn’t. He will not confess that Jesus Christ is lord. He denies the resurrection. This man is off by a long shot…

[@lex61519]

​​@@JesusIsMaster777 When has he denied that? Just because he hasn't made it clear that he believes that doesn't mean he's flat out denied it.

[@TheHopperstein]

​@Soul Pure wrong... Bible is the word. All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

[@garychap8384]

Got to love Petersons clarity and eloquence. That whole argument was absolutely sublime.

[@jordansmith3340]

“Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.” ‭‭James‬ ‭2‬:‭19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

[@dantheman909]

awesome verse

[@truth3229]

The west is still trapped in its pagan dream, when will it end? The Romans deified Jesus to maintain their pagan, lucrative human-worship that boosted their economy but ultimately led to their downfall when the they fell too far in their self-worship. This cursed interpretation of Christianity, which prioritizes human worship, statues and images of human men and women who resembles the people of their own ethnicity, has unconsciously inspired men and women to be gods themselves, creating the countries with the greatest wealth but causing even greater economic crises as a result! This twisted pagan interpretation of Christianity is followed even by those who are atheists, its the Mother of extremist leftist and right-wing ideologies, who all share the fraternal bond rooted in the shared belief that people - or at least certain groups of people - are inherently good. They call themselves christians and wair the cross proudly on their chest, and they curse the romans for crucifying Christ, but they do not understand that they themselves are the pagan Romans, who worship images of themselves, human statues, idols, and sacrifice others for their sins! They claim to love ‘humanity’ in the name of christ but can only percieve the group they belong to as the true essence of humanity. The western world has been in a cycle of Repentence, economic growth, self-worship, economic downfall, sacrificing, repentence. Have they not nailed enough Prophets to their cross? Have they not nailed enough syrians and iraqis to their cross? Have they not nailed enough Africans to their cross? Have they not nailed enough Indians to their cross? Have they not nailed enough Asians to their cross? Have they not nailed enough Jews to their cross? They eat themselves into nihilism, economic crisis and war, and can only be forced into humility by war! Not by god, for they think they are God and his angels. After sacrificing millions of innocent lives, they achieve an economic recovery fueled by humility and guilt, after which they shake religion off, and go for another round of self-worship.

[@kwg5044]

WORD

[@itoibo4208]

it sounds so serious when taken out of an old book. if you created this writing today, people would rightly call you a nut.

[@rokasdobrovolskis]

@@itoibo4208 Stop.

[@iankingcarter]

I truly enjoy these discussions. Each perspective either confirms what I believe or challenges my entire belief system 🤯

[@Kevin-sr8yx]

JP nailed it with the idea of invitation. All humans have the capacity to be violent, lustful, etc., but when we entertain that urge (by choice), the door opens, and the "demon" of anger enters and has its way with us. You can see shadows of this in witchcraft and voodoo, where spells summon or conjure up demons to appear and do their thing. Now, righteous anger does exist too. So I'm not sure how that fits into all of this. Maybe "righteous anger" is a non-possessed anger where you are still in complete control and serves some function of good as well. Christ turning over the trading tables in the temple comes to mind.

[@gailhill8391]

Turning over the tables was ONE occurrence. Just saying......

[@fleeks-valorant8732]

There's a difference between the anger ruling the individual vs the individual ruling the anger.

[@alvareo92]

@@fleeks-valorant8732 You got it. I don't get angry often, but when I do, I don't feel like myself, I feel like there's another energy possessing me. It's become clearer lately. That's why I flee from anger, because it controls me, rather than me it.

[@sandoncrowder7839]

Righteous anger is being angry at injustice or evil, with a hunger for justice but not with a desire to fight fire with fire

[@MichaelLewis-fx8eq]

As far as I remember (I don't have a Bible on my person atm), Christ was nott calm and collected about that whole affair. He even goes as far as calling everyone in the temple names. I get what you're saying about righteous anger, but I think the example doesn't match, as that was one of the few times Christ actually did get ugly mad.

[@mariog1490]

I think they are understood as gods since they have their own will and perception. Peterson is correct to classify these as personalities, as these things lay themselves out not as autonomous objects in the world, but patterns of action. And they act upon us.

[@katelynngraham2738]

I would highly recommend watching a video or reading the book unseen realm, by Michael heiser. He explains the Deuteronomy 32 worldview far more clearly than I ever could, so I will just leave it at that. If you want to get another perspective check it out! God bless❤

[@FrederikWLC]

Would rather call them spirits. That does everyone justice.

[@reximperator2498]

I can hear the echoes of Jung and Tolle and even to a stretch Watts throughout the video. Jung talks about the archetypes being their own entities as long as we are unconscious of them and I can understand past civilizations deeming them 'gods' if the wise men of these past times noticed and extracted the essence of these personalities and the strength of their influence against the developing freewill of a society. And keeping in mind that there may not have had an extensive vocabulary in these times thus the use of a general word was necessary to get the severity of the point across - consequently employing the use of 'gods' Tolle often mentioned psychic entities and knots that keep us in a loop of destructive thought until we become aware of them and make the conscious effort to resolve them via several methods most notably just being aware and not acting on them. Watts more or less due to the Eastern influences just said to just be and let what is that to happen. Stop beating the drum in search of the thief. Don't make the decision to fix a problem because the personal devil is always listening and he knows you better than you know yourself. the devil in this case for me are the same archetypes, especially the trickster.

[@mariog1490]

@@reximperator2498 the problem with Jung is he believes the psyche is patterned and projects itself on the external world (by way of Kant). However, in order for the mind to be patterned, it by patterned by way of some external “katholou” (universal) outside the psyche (argued by Aristotle and Plato). These patterns of the psyche must necessarily find their reality in the world and the mind of God. This is because the psyche is part of the world (Heidegger’s idea of being-in-the-world). I’m not sure about Peterson but my main influence on this subject is Mircea Eliade (who’s main influence are the fathers I believe).

[@austinjackson7103]

Demons

[@khhudgins2508]

I don’t normally comment on these but I truly wish Dr. Michael Heiser could have been able to participate in this debate. He was one of the highest scholars in ancient Semitic literature, translation, and was one of the academics for logos Bible software. Judaism and Christianity are not in conflict about the OT if it is read in the historical context about who God is. Sadly Heiser passed into the unseen realm a short while ago but if he was there it would have been so beneficial. I highly recommend his book The Unseen Realm.

[@Kej121]

Michael Heiser Divine Council will be a great addition to this. Check out his Unseen Realm book. May his soul rest in peace.

[@urablahblah]

I know. He would have schooled all of them in this topic.

[@consideringorthodoxy5495]

@@urablahblah He would've mostly been in agreement with Pageau. Probably pretty close with Peterson too.

[@Dknow7812]

Michael Heiser is an all time great. He would completely school all these guys

[@ethanarborist9294]

I love that at the end we got to the heart of why we all love Jordan Peterson and how Dennis Prager is suffering from the intellectual superiority complex, via others failing due to inadequate sacrifices. Haha Prager says eat your heart out Pareto. God says my sacrifices are best. Jordan says, wait a minute "Buddy". Haha way to go Jordan! Btw directly related to Prager's "I only want influence. I don't want power." And Jordan's response, "They are the same thing."

[@ntsikehposwa1841]

I love the truth and intensely analytic manner of such an important profound topic in this conversation. Such intelligent, wise and open minds.

[@dustinkolberg4523]

Pageau is so on point. It’s so strange to watch some of the others not see it. But also so cool to see how all the objections to statements draw out beautiful points!

[@maurinastrelow5264]

With heartfelt gratitude I thank this panel. Your discussion of issues I've wondered about most of my life, with such knowledge and honesty, is enlightening to all who listen. Please tell me where I can get dvds of Exodus (these wonderful discussions).

[@GroundBeef1]

I think it's on the daily wire website

[@dualShockRK98]

@@GroundBeef1 DailyWire+ Subscription

[@FirewoodEnjoyer69]

Man, if Michael Heiser were to have been able to get on this panel he would have answered so many questions and entirely have blown them away on this very subject. RIP Michael.

[@la7134]

My thoughts exactly! 😊

[@AidanStrickland]

YES

[@IsoMorphix]

Dude I didn't know. RIP Heiser. He was a huge element of the Bible Project's content that was foundational for an understanding that brought me firmly into faith.

[@randomuser7375]

I agree. I knew about him thru the BibleProject.

[@AurorXZ]

Agreed! Love Michael. ❤ Even just _any_ Hebrew Bible scholar would be great, for that matter-I've been immersed in Pentateuchal scholarship and the history of Israelite religion for YEARS, and these public conversations are fascinating but always SO painful lol. Michael Heiser (RIP), John J. Collins, Michael Doogan, David Carr, James Kugel, Christina Hayes, Marc Brettler, Joel Baden, Susan Niditch, Mark S Smith.... I would pay _serious_ money to watch this with any of them or their peers. 😂 Nearly half of these are practicing Protestants/Catholics, and two are practicing Jews, so they're on the friendly religion-affirming side.

[@onehappydawg]

The late biblical scholar Michael Heiser has a lot of good information on the “gods” of the Old Testament. The Hebraic word is “elohim”, and is not just a word used as a name for the God of the Bible but also was understood in the ancient Hebraic mind to be any being that is spiritual or from the spiritual realm. His book, “the Unseen Realm” goes into great detail about it.

[@franskamffer2413]

Yes, this. The Bible Project also has a series on this.

[@onehappydawg]

@@franskamffer2413 I’m a little wary of the Bible Project. They seem to lean towards progressive Christianity a little too much for my taste.

[@aelix56]

@@onehappydawg Being wary is fine but listening to their points and finding out if it checks out should be a thing you do.

[@briankite7744]

Mind-blowing that this stuff is lost to these guys…

[@onehappydawg]

@@briankite7744 well, at one point we didn’t know either. Even the must intelligent among us doesn’t know what he doesn’t know.

[@followerofchrist5773]

"Thus says the Lord the King of Israel and His Redeemer, the Lord of hosts, I am the First, and I am the Last, and beside Me there is no God." (Isaiah 44:6)

[@israel.horowitz]

"Sin crouches at the door, and its desire is towards you - but you can rule over it." (Genesis 4:7)

[@alchemical.fitness]

I absolutely love these dialogues

[@dianeitani8368]

This was sooooo good! I didn't want it to end! This is definitely how a perfect discussion with differences should go!

[@Savetheworldfirebidennow]

I just discovered these brilliant minds in this series. I agree with what you said! So refreshing

[@GoblinSTEEZ]

Thank you for this video the ideas discussed here may have unlocked a wall I've been trying to crack in my research for years!

[@Inspiriments888]

Anger comes from desire/lack of control, entitlement, jealousy, envy, & desire to be seen as special and when one's own ego is presented with what it decides is unjust.

[@approperties1379]

"God stands in the congregation of the mighty; He judges among the gods." Psalms 82:1 NKJV

[@josephmedina6403]

JC are you with me! Now ! Let me clear my throat . Timbaland & Magoo

[@christianfowler2100]

Incredible how even in a room of intellectuals, Dr. Jordan Peterson not only appears to be a league of his own but how the other panelists defer to him

[@3516C]

This was the most polite harumphing I've ever seen.

[@israeladeoye2659]

... I will say to my shock, the last years in the western world have opened me up for the first time through the belief that there may be a devil... "the rejection of what is good and the celebration of what is wrong so radically and so quickly without recourse"...

[@personperson1179]

I think what JP is talking about and what everyone is talking about are very different ideas. Loving the clips keep ‘em coming!

[@jasonvk3570]

Jonathan Pageau is correct. They are called Elohim. Psalms 82: "God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment." The best is Dr. Michael Heiser on this topic.

[@rmarciano491]

This is wonderful! The discourse is excellent

[@jdizle1178]

“The Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is contrary to you, but you must rule over it.”” ‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4‬:‭6‬-‭7‬ ‭ESV‬‬ JP is on his game with what he said

[@creativityofcolor]

It’s crazy this came up cause I just started studying out Exodus and spiritual forces

[@itoibo4208]

you are right it is crazy

[@dawngaines8694]

Brilliant video. I was just speaking this topic with my friends. I personally feel that not everyone prays to the same God. I feel it’s all connected to an individuals core.

[@tcizzi]

This is so powerful. There's no wrong side in this discussion. It was a beautiful integration of the importance of personal responsibility when dealing with transcendent principalities. Transformative stuff to say the least.

[@justchilling704]

Prager was definitely wrong and seems to have a more Sadducee form of Jewish belief. He seems to be unaware that “Satan” comes from 2nd period Jews taking note of the first adversary in the Bible the serpent which was Elohim that rebelled against God. This is why John in revelation singled out the serpent as the Satan he was referring to.

[@Theactivepsychos]

There’s only no wrong side as it’s all in falsifiable. Which really means there’s no reason to believe any of it.

[@Adam2-13]

It’s all wrong when you bring God into it because these men know nothing of the one true God

[@Theactivepsychos]

@@Adam2-13 keep me out of your effing mouth.

[@drooskie9525]

@@Theactivepsychos You don't "have" to believe it, but you're pretty obligated too, otherwise you're going to be completely confused and blind to what happens to you and in the social world... and you're gonna need a answer for it. Atheists tend to be extremely lazy philosophically, so I don't expect much. You live in the realm of human perception. Phenomenology. Not scientific empiricism.

[@PaulVanderKlay]

This is the moment in this series I've been waiting for.

[@redtobertshateshandles]

As someone who had an evil entity inside my mind, when I was feverishly ill as a child, I find this fascinating. When I was severely hung over, this evil thought process would return. I was angry with someone last year, and I crashed my bicycle and injured myself. I really try not to get angry because it does seem to attract a bad spirit.

[@seansmith1725]

I feel that, thats probably why some people get violent when they get drunk.

[@redtobertshateshandles]

@Sean Smith it's great to know you're not alone. Thanks.

[@JFox4587]

Be sure not to ignore the deep seed that is allowing the anger to grip you in the first place. Typically these forces can grab us because we have unspoken resentment we are withholding, not just from others but even hiding from ourselves. The first step (which is what makes psychology useful) is to admit who and what you are angry with. Usually it’s that you are angry with someone you love, which is very conflicting, and so you deny that you are angry at all. Many times it is with a parent. This anger is kept unconscious because it is in conflict with your love for the person, but you must admit it first, and then try to speak it bravely and without attempt to control what happens as a result of admitting it truthfully. Then the healing begins, and the “spirit” no longer can use the seed of anger to manipulate your actions and thoughts.

[@itoibo4208]

maybe you were just being dumb

[@cornorjakeson8083]

dude learn more about shadow self and try to integrate it.

[@swordsword5593]

Stunning! A debate or discussion to search for and Learn the Truth not to show who has the Truth! Just Love it!

[@RetroAiUnleashed]

Thank You this was helpful to understand how negative emotions can control us. Much appreciated

[@jasmineadjei2552]

These conversations are so brilliant my goodness! Opens up the bible in such a way. Grateful to have come across these.

[@0ptixs]

It's possible that this question of "is there one God? Or many?" Is exactly the question that we need to answer in our own lives. Do we serve the lesser gods, or principalities, or do we serve the highest, the unity of all those gods

[@iamBlackGambit]

There's only one God who created all things! That's it..There's no other god be he! PERIOD

[@Kilbyplays]

What a great intellectual conversation. Hard to come by nowadays.

[@AteaAlcove]

Yes!!!! This is fantastic. Jordans message was very validating and also relatable. Possession is anything that has control or power over our conscious choices, perceptions, or psyche. This was a brilliant discussion.

[@dannycaplan6614]

“Anger is an energy.” -Johnny Rotten

[@DrewOmondithetrainer]

Very insightful conversation. My understanding is that, any force that you subject yourself to, controls you. And anything that you allow yourself to be subject under, is your g od. Now a god according to the Bible is a spirit being, remember Jesus in John 10:34 . Now we share the same breath( spirit ) with God. ( Gen 2:7) Now the question is this, out of everything that controls, or any spirit. There is one that has dominion over every spirit and ruler,power and authoritarian. And that is the God of the Bible.

[@twichytail]

i found this video through a 40k meme and it was delightfully enlightening.

[@Belief_Before_Glory]

"HEAR, O ISRAEL: THE LORD OUR GOD, THE LORD IS ONE." -Deuteronomy 6:4💜

[@itoibo4208]

Such silliness.

[@Belief_Before_Glory]

@@itoibo4208 Friend, would you mind expounding on your comment, please. Thanks. All the best!

[@Belief_Before_Glory]

"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." -Marcus Aurelius

[@itoibo4208]

@@Belief_Before_Glory the beliefs in gods. Gods who are clearly human in description.

[@Belief_Before_Glory]

@@itoibo4208 Thank you, but do you believe God exists? There is a difference between God, gods and Gods.

[@TheKenttt]

I love how the most heated part of the discussion still seemed so friendly.

[@3lipalm3r]

There is only one GOD, there are many idols.

[@senjinquang7885]

"Anger exists even if you die" - Peterson 13:50 Sounds like the MTG card Rancor flavor text "Hatred outlives the hateful"

[@cyprokka]

Such a fascinating discussion

[@ianpotter2942]

i am presented with a clean basin and pure water. my gratitude to all who aided this discussion and its publication. salute!

[@JackLWalsh]

It’s like watching a bunch of children arguing about what superhero is the strongest 😂😂

[@BlGGESTBROTHER]

"My God would beat your God's ass!"

[@rowdy7480]

Do you enjoy being a sad troll? I doubt it. You should be improving your life each day, as we all should. Instead, you live in a state of jealousy towards JBP. I've added you to my prayers, that you might become a better person.

[@JackLWalsh]

It’s interesting that you deleted your comment? Clearly you were afraid of actually having to engage.

[@billyin4c514]

Jordan is probably the smartest dude in that room, and he should be, it's his job to understand humanity.

[@recklesskilljoy_6418]

Man Dr. Michael Heiser would have shined in a conversation like this.

[@urablahblah]

Shined? He would have dominated. Good for him that he doesn't have to worry about any of this anymore. He's seeing it face to face.

[@recklesskilljoy_6418]

@@urablahblah very true

[@johngrogan6313]

This is a brilliant discussion. I'd like to add something in reference to Dennis' comment 'I'm not responsible.' In order to do that, I need to back up one step. Any emotional response is caused by an unexpected juxtaposition of ideas. For example, with a joke my thoughts are going one way, then they go another way. If the situation is humorous, I laugh. If I think about my dad whom I love, but he is dead. It makes me sad. So, the emotional response is caused by an unexpected juxtaposition of ideas. With anger, the juxtaposition is that my perception of reality is being challenged. There are many ways this can manifest. This comes about by fear for example, when I am going up the stairs in the dark. I get to the top steps thinking there is another step and stumble forward. It could make me angry. If I'm proud, thinking I'm better than I am, and you hold up a mirror to show me what I actually look like, I'll become a tyrant. If I'm envious, thinking I'm a victim because you have something I can't have, I'll get angry. Now to address Dennis' point. I have to recognize that when I'm angry, it is because my perception of reality is being challenged. I have to move away from that spirit that has gripped me and conform myself (my thoughts) with reality. That is by definition, truth. And now I'm free of that 'spirit of anger.' I am responsible for those emotions and I'm responsible for my actions those emotions inspire. My two cents. For what they are worth.

[@MichaelSOlan]

I love that last point about C and A. It doesn't appear clear as to why the sacrifice is hierarchically lesser than his brother's. I can be inferred that the difference is the fundamental motivation, though that is certainly an interpretation, valid or not.

[@MoonFlowerCreations]

There is indication that Able’s offering was better because of it being of his first fruits and the best of what he had and that he offered it with much faith. Cains offering was not described that way. It appears he didn’t give his “first fruits.” Makes one wonder why? I think that it’s not just about the offering but also the state of mind he was already in when he gave it. The way Cain reacted to the whole thing(killing his brother) was indication enough of where his heart was at. Obviously God could see that. Then the Lord said to Cain, ‘Why are you angry? Why are you dejected? If you act rightly, you will be accepted; but if not, sin lies in wait at the door; its urge is for you, yet you can rule over it’ ” (Gn 4:5-7) Instead of Cain mastering his anger and his passions, he gave in to it.

[@8curious]

@@MoonFlowerCreations no one talks about Abel being the innocent collateral damage, the golden roadkill - how could that story be written solely to show what the right sacrifice is? What's Abel's part in this? Why hasn't he earned the right to live on? Does that imply a better afterlife?

[@MoonFlowerCreations]

@@8curious ​ Good question, and yes, it seems so unfortunate that Able was murdered. Sadly, that is the way things go sometimes in this world which is why it is so important to be on good terms with God, and to be repentant of our sins and to make atonement for our wrong doings right away, through our actions and within our hearts, since we never know when our time will come. Thankfully, Able was good with God before he was murdered which gives us an indication as to where he resides right now. Sadly, Cain remained unrepentant. So we know where he most likely is as well.

[@ihavetubes]

@@8curious That story is just a small piece of a larger story pointing to Christ.

[@redtobertshateshandles]

As someone with a jealous older brother, I fail to see any mystery in this story.. Once you let one demon in, you let them all in.

[@m.deadly5952]

That, that point of contention always stands to me, where Dr. Jordan view things differently and where the point of mythical stories to him are actions, as opposed to believing in them literally. I see him being pushed sometimes to be a lot more particular about what he means and it's difficult cause if he particularize it too much, he may end up excluding other people's view. in the this case the super natural view.

[@IndepIntel]

Dennis asked: If anger is transcendent, then how do you control it? My answer is: You do not control it. You can only control yourself. By controlling yourself, you are able to withstand anger’s influence over you.

[@lailaknight6620]

I'm glad they approached this subject that I reflected upon lately: the fact that people don't produce concepts. Concepts animate people. Like in a Platonian world, the absolute concept of anger, grace, etc. Like different planets people come from. Have you ever met someone with the same spirit as yours? You'd say he/she comes from the same world. It's amazing. The same here, it's like big "institutions" that people frequent. You see the same people at the gym, libraries, etc. Each place has the same "consumers". And if you want to go from one place to another, let's say from "the world of anger" to the world of "success", you start noticing what are the people from that world doing. How do they develop the muscles for success ( like to a gym). And the point in life is that you move from one place to another. Each place has its own trials and temptations. Very insightful conversation. I wonder why they don't have a moderator. They sometimes talk all at the same time and we can not hear them. It's a pity. In spite of it, it's fascinating. J B Peterson, I truly love your spirit.

[@IncandescentCrowvus]

Pulls out my “Unseen Realm” book by Dr.Michael Heiser

[@romeisburning6739]

It would clear up this issue very quickly.

[@itoibo4208]

unseen because it does not exist

[@urablahblah]

Same.

[@TheOne-ql8qd]

Lots of newbies to this type of conversation. Respect you are new and respect some of these men have been studying their lives off for topics like this. You can agree with JP and still know your place.

[@dantheman909]

I think it's simplest to say that we treat things as gods, even though there is really only one God. From our perspective something like an angel might be a god to us, because it is so much more powerful and awesome than us. But on the grand scale of the entire reality, there is only one God.

[@brianbridges8124]

how did you verify that? how did you rule out all the other religions? how do you know any of them are true? the bible is a book of stories, but the stories cannot be proof that the stories happened...... thats like proving spiderman with a comic book.

[@darrennew8211]

Really? Which one is that?

[@SamanthaAnnFox]

​@@brianbridges8124 This manner of thinking is exactly why your in your current position.

[@brianbridges8124]

@@SamanthaAnnFox yes and your manner of thinking is exactly why your in your current position.. great now we both know why we disagree, how do we figure out which one is correct?

[@itoibo4208]

the simplest answer is to twist the meaning to whatever you want it to be. this is what religion is all about. nonsense and superstition.

[@lorumerthgaming]

Anyone can say 'i do not believe in the devil.' But he believes in you. Jesus is the only one that can beat him.

[@StoicLife01]

This is a good discussion! Wow, thank you for posting this. Lot's of good thought-provoking questions that are rooted in values and stored deep within our hearts. Powerful, rewarding, challenging ideas. Thank you, thank you, thank you

[@telleroftheone]

Glad Pageau is on this panel representing the Divine Council Worldview aspect of the faith. The Eastern Orthodox church maintained this understanding of the Council through history, and Second Temple Era Judaism certainly did. Sad Dr. Heiser himself could not be on this panel, regardless. His research is potent in settling this debate.

[@allen_tor]

Jonathan is right, in Psalm 82:6 Yahweh calls the angels gods. (Elohim) I personally believe the term Elohim is used kind of like a job title. That's why it can be used to refer to more that just Yahweh for example in Exodus 4:16 the term is used to refer to Moses, in Psalm 82:6 it is used for the spirit sons of God. Granted the only being that fully exemplifies all that the term represents is only Yahweh, (that is to say Yahweh is the quintessential Elohim) but it is simply a job title in my view, kind of like engineer or architect or Malaikh or Seraph or Cherub or Archangel. These are roles or job titles.

[@KelssNition]

Psalm 82:6 is about humans not angels which is why Jesus quoted it in John 10:34 - it would be weird if it was about angels and Jesus quoted it, the Pharisees would have also prob tried to correct him to say it was referring to angels, though angels are also sons of God since they are God's creation and can technically be lower case "gods". I agree God is a title but there is a distinction of God being a deity between Him and His creation being "gods" or idols being "gods" which is also apparent in Psalm 82. For Exodus 4:16 he did not refer to Moses as a god or god, it's basically saying Aaron will speak on Moses' behalf (like a messenger) and Moses will stand in God's place - instructing Aaron on what God has instructed Moses.

[@agis230]

Thank you. Very useful indeed.

[@allen_tor]

@@KelssNition Thank you for your response. Though I would say if it was not to the spirit sons of God but to mortal men that Yahweh was speaking, why then would God need to inform them that they will die. (Verse 7) Of course they will die they're mortal, so why tell them that they will die? They were already going to die, they're human it's the most human thing about them, they die. Only beings that don't have to die having been judged by Yahweh(Psalm 82:1) would now like any prince and just as any mortal man have to die for their sin. And this of course also proves the existence of wicked spirit sons of God. Furthermore, if God was speaking to the judges and teachers of Israel then how do you interpret verse 8, are the judges and teachers of Israel to rise up and judge all the earth are the judges and teachers of Israel to take possession of all the Nations? Seems to me he's talking to another one of his spirit sons in this regard, a spirit son about whom we get more information in Psalm 110. As for John 10. Jesus is making an argument in his defense. Remember the Pharisees are bringing against him the charge of blasphemy for saying he is the Son of God. And Jesus is quoting this scripture precisely because the Pharisees believed it applied to them. So in a sense he is saying if you men are applying the term God (Elohim) to yourselves thinking that this scripture is applying to you, why then do you bring the charge of blasphemy against me for using a lesser title "Son of God". As for Exodus and Moses, that is a legitimate interpretation but as to why God would use the term Elohim instead of Angel or prophet or seer is beyond me, surely it would have prevented a lot of confusion, unless it is of course what Yahweh intended was to apply this term to Moses with its original interpretation not just with the interpretation of a representative because there are many other words in Hebrew he could have used, I think this shows that the term Elohim can be applied to anyone. Of course as I said only Yahweh fully exemplifies all that this term represents but it can be applied to others as well.

[@allen_tor]

@@agis230 You're welcome.

[@ionutpaun9828]

@@KelssNition Michael Heiser discussed this in depth in his book Unseen realm.

[@halo2bullseye922]

I love Jordan Peterson. Such a blessing to our generation.

[@TheRealJokeFace]

At this moment, there's no greater tragedy in my eyes than the fact that Michael Heiser isn't sitting at this table

[@Sokofeather]

Exactly. He could have woven these individual positions together exactly and biblically.

[@buckroniart]

Exactly what I was thinking.

[@natemartinez739]

Same. Amen to that.

[@itoibo4208]

would be nice if some famous atheists were there

[@drooskie9525]

​@@itoibo4208 materialism is a dead end. Atheists have no business having a input on something like this

[@algala25]

This is so interesting. I could listen to this for months.

[@Wstydzie]

Hope there is more in Bible series

[@felipev.7031]

I wish Jordan had these kind of conversations with people like Frank Turek, Doud Wilson, and Michael Lake.

[@jazzyyyy1263]

As a Muslim, I agree with Dennis a lot. Really. We are strictly monotheistic. Angels are "Malaika" in Arabic and "Malekh" in Hebrew. Both mean "Messenger'. Cain's sacrifice was not accepted because his was not of the highest quality. As for JB asking whether the malevolent forces, anger, lust, hate etc. are gods. YES THEY ARE. We have made them Gods. Here is what God says in the Quran talking about desires: "Will you not take heed? Have you seen him who takes his own desires as his ilah (god), and Allah knowing (him as such), left him astray ... " Chapter 45, Verse 23 The thing is, these things, anger, lust etc, don't have the proclivities to act like gods. We give them the power within us and make them gods. We are the agents through whom these forces act out. Like the story of Cain and Abel. See how Quran puts it. "And recite to them the story of the two sons of Adam (Cain and Abel) in truth; when each offered a sacrifice, it was accepted from the one but not from the other. The latter said to the former: "I will surely kill you." The former said: "Verily, Allah accepts only from those who are the pious." "If you do stretch your hand against me to kill me, I shall never stretch my hand against you to kill you: for I fear Allah, the Lord of the `Alamin (mankind, devils, and all that exists)." "Verily, I intend to let you draw my sin on yourself as well as yours, then you will be one of the dwellers of the Fire; and that is the recompense of the wrong-doers;" So the Nafs (self) of the other (Cain) encouraged him and made fair-seeming to him the murder of his brother; he murdered him and became one of the losers; Then Allah sent a crow who scratched the ground to show him to hide the dead body of his brother; He (the murderer) said: "Woe to me! Am I not even able to be as this crow and to hide the dead body of my brother?" Then he became one of those who regretted". (Chapter 5 Verse 27-31) See. The Nafs (self) of Cain encouraged him and made fair-seeming to him the murder of his brother, Abel. Each of us have the ability to become Cain or Abel. Bottom line is. There is only one supreme God. The creator and maintainer of the universe and everything in it. Allah. Yahweh. Elohim. All the remaining forces, be they devils or emotional forces like anger, lust etc., we make them gods.

[@toluwalasearinola2908]

Momo copied some of the bible,the pagans book and the Hindu scripture as well Islam is a messed up religion and a copy paste mixture of pagan belief, Al lah is not Yahweh or elohim, Allah is a pagan moon god and muhammad bow down to his three daughters and he says their intercession is a must allat aluzza manat Quran 53:19-22..

[@justinharper4727]

I would use the word idol and not god. There is only one God as you know. The Koran verses are interesting, they sound to me like someone took the original bible verses and just changed them slightly with worse sounding language. I don't mean that to be offensive but when you read the Cain and Abel story in the bible and then in the Koran, it definitely seems that way. The bible is much older so it makes sense.

[@jazzyyyy1263]

@@justinharper4727 One God. Yahweh. Elohim. Allah. The only difference is in the language being used. All point to the same God, the creator of the universe. Quran doesn't say multiple gods exist. It says that people have made multiple gods. As for the language, no offense taken. Actually I have used a translation. Every language has its nuances. Arabic has too. Translation very very rarely conveys the actual emotion and power of the original language. Just like in the discussion in the video, Dennis pointed out the actual word for angel used in Hebrew to clarify his point.

[@jazzyyyy1263]

@@justinharper4727 As for the comparison of Bible and Quran, I have read both Bible and the Quran. Quran is a continuum of th le previous textures. It says so itself. Neither is the Prophet Muhammad a new entry in the series of the Prophets of God nor is the book, Bible or Quran, a creation of the Prophet. It is just that Quran and the Prophet Muhammad are the final entries in the series of books and prophets of God. Latest, final and updated edition, if I may. 🙂

[@justinharper4727]

@@jazzyyyy1263 You seem much more reasonable than a lot of people who like to debate on these KZbin videos, kudos to you for that. Also, it's cool to see a Muslim looking at different perspectives from different religious points of view. One of the questions I have for Muslims is why do they choose to follow what Muhammad says, he takes some of the Bible passages and changes the stories and some of the language. We have copies of scripture from thousands of years ago that match our current copies so we know that they haven't been changed. It seems to me that Muhammad came and changed them. Judaism and Christianity are much older than Islam and we keep finding older and older copies of manuscripts that match our current bible. All the evidence points to the fact that Muhammad changed the stories for his own purposes. There are a lot of similarities but I think that's because he keeps mostly the same characters but he just changes their stories. I am glad we can both agree that there is only one God.

[@henkverhaeren3759]

Great holistic insight this table has. It takes this level of understanding of consciousness to balance the worlds madness and create a constructive form of competitieve peace.

[@unbrokenspine]

What got me out of depression was my inability to deny the existence of another transcendent soul. Despite all the darkness, I could not deny the idea that the situation I was in was not the ultimate reality, that the light was as real as the darkness. It was as if I was torn between two children who said "Love me the most". I eventually learned to love both equally, but it didn't last long. I come and go from time to time on the brink of depression. I have developed tolerance now. Make sure you don't violate other parts of your existence.

[@isaileon1584]

No such thing as god

[@redtobertshateshandles]

Depression is the evil of wallowing in your own misery. It is like a demon you let enter. I find meditation and prayer help. I think meditation teaches thought control so you can avoid " going there".

[@tjwoosta]

@@isaileon1584 depends on your interpretation of what god is

[@sandoncrowder7839]

No man can serve two masters, you must make up your mind on which deserves your all

[@Aisatsana1971]

@@tjwoosta why is it that so many Christians believe Jordan is the same kind of Christian as they are? Jordan is a Jungian. He doesn’t believe in the afterlife, or the physical existence of Christ 2000 years ago. Why are Christians so easy to manipulate? Or is it wishful thinking where they simply want JP to be on their side, when on reality his beliefs are fundamentally contradictory to 99.9% of Christians?

[@andrewmcisaac2234]

Great high minded men having a meaningful conversation... excellence

[@andtechie5210]

Denis was fantastic, he held it down really well.

[@SmartByTravel]

"Gods there may be many but to ye, there is but one God".

[@Zomfoo]

Jordan’s propensity to metaphoricalize everything.

[@beestoe993]

Monotheism does not prohibit the belief that other Creatures far more powerful than us may exist, it just prohibits the worship of them. That is actually a good thing for we lesser species. How far down the Totem pole do you wish to be?

[@keithparker5625]

Jordan is always abstracting everything to pieces. While this is likely a good way to think of spiritual things it is important to remember that those things are more real than the "real" world...at least as we perceive it.

[@austinjackson7103]

He hasn't accepted the world he has peeked into.

[@777rickster]

One of the best discussions in this series and it's about the subject of evil.