Artist Protagonists are Bad (But They Don't Have to Be)

[@ahsink.3080]

This isn't a book, but I loved how the artist protagonist was handled in Spiderman: Into the Spiderverse. I think Miles' love for graffiti/street art was incorporated very well into the story, it tied into his character arc and gave depth to his relationships with his father, uncle and his own view of himself. Also ahhhh, I love that you mentioned Portrait of a Lady on Fire! I loved that movie and I hope you loved it too😊

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Yes! Those are both fantastic movies!!

[@ponilo99]

I adored how they portrayed Miles, I found it really genuine. another reccomendation I have is Big Eyes from Tim Burton, fell in love with it as soon as I watched it! :D

[@Victoria-_]

Exactly!

[@ricekrispies1917]

Yes! I liked that it added something unique and relatable to his character. Seeing how his interest in art also played into his relationships and philosophies between his father and uncle was a very nice touch, and I loved how the film used that part of him as symbolism in embracing his role as the next Spiderman too when he decides to color up his suit

[@Thelovelyrosie2002]

@@JordanHarveybooks what is your Twitter so I can look at your beautiful art!!!

[@frankundercoverdragon6288]

Tbh I would love to see nonromanticized artists protagonists where they deal with materials not working or making mistakes and getting frustrated. So many artists protagonists just feel like they were written by people who don't actually understand the craft

[@JordanHarveybooks]

So true!!

[@Aquaphor351]

Very true! It's always clear when an author has NO IDEA what being an artist is truly like, because they'll write their artist protag in the most romanticized, idealized way possible. Whereas the reality is messing up your art and getting so annoyed that you want to snap all your pencils and then hiding your piece for three months so you can avoid working on it LMAO.

[@sixrabbits3972]

Just staring at a half finished piece, feeling no desire to move forward on it because it's not going the way you envisioned. Drawing butts instead of drawing what you are supposed to.

[@nanalove3819]

and it is even stranger considering that writing is also a form of art and comes with the same struggles as painting : words don't fall down from the sky and sometimes you just want to destroy your work because the scene doesn't work how you think it would be... You think writers would get that, but no.

[@Rachopin77]

People also often write artists as if they’re completely unable to do art if they aren’t divinely inspired. Art is a skill. It’s creative, but its also a skill. It’s possible to do art when you aren’t inspired if you do take certain approaches and use the skills you have. If you work for a client, you kind of just have to do what they want or need, it doesn’t really matter if it’s deeply inspiring. It’s good to also be inspired, but you can’t rely on it. Also people often don’t incorporate an understanding of when art would actually needed or when someone would hire the artist protagonist. And I feel like people don’t really write the viewpoint of the character like they are an artist. I think that would be more interesting in a lot of cases. The way I think about and see certain thing or approach problems is different because I’m an artist. How my internal monologue would sound is subtly different because of it.

[@damascus9876]

I'm tired of artists in media always focusing on the "naturally talented" protagonist vs the "super mean been training for a while and is the up and coming next best thing" antagonist. This happens a lot in films centered around dance and I see it happen with other art forms being portrayed in books too. Any form of art takes time. It's a skill that you need to build, even if you happen to have natural talent. And I'm not a fan of the "been doing this for a while and was practically raised to do said art" always being the antagonist and being rude??? It doesn't feel realistic or even all that interesting since it's slapped on to practically every plot involving a dancer main character ever.

[@mimaythelavendermenace]

EXACTLY!! The "naturally talented" trope shown in movies could honestly be the building block for insecure artists. I, as a kid used to get so damn frustrated when I wasn't naturally talented like I've seen portrayed in media, when the reality is; no one is really born talented. Art is a skill, (that includes performance art, writing, etc.) and it takes time and practice to master and even to develop your own style. My God, I wish the media would stop portraying it as if you just need to be "special" and "passionate" in order to pursue an art form.

[@vaishnavisingh9244]

also the thing is, protagonists are not allowed to fail, they are always depicted as one of the budding talents whose art "speak to the audience", like it doesn't work like that. People who started out young and constantly struggled are the ones who achieve success and generally are the ones who know more about their craft than anyone else. Intrestingly enough, an anime comes to my mind which is about volleyball in which the protagonist is naturally talent but also lacks core values, he tries to learn from his elders but ofc doesn't become just as good as them, he improves steadily. There is a certain lack of it in western media

[@thgritic102]

And then having the "naturally talented" newbie win the competition over the "trained for years" person because that's realistic 😑 It always annoyed me because I side with the trained hard person even when I was a newbie in that same field. Like they have every right to be frustrated when a person or group (of dancers) who has been training for a month wins because it makes no sense plus you can even see they aren't that good. The media really need to stop doing that. Have the trained person win first place, the "naturally talented" in second or last, the NT isn't discouraged about it, and the two sides are cordial with each other. Teppu, a manga about female MMA fighting, did this better.

[@vaishnavisingh9244]

@@thgritic102 ooh SK8 did the same thing, yes sometimes talent is overwhelming but it is still beatable by hard work (in the anime one kid was snowboarding since he was three, his skills transferred into skating)

[@thgritic102]

@@vaishnavisingh9244 At least with Sk8 (which I absolutely love), they even clarify how rare what Langa is doing is while with Reki, he would be great at designing boards like a tech person because he knows what can make skateboarding better, and he finds it fun no matter what. Like the two shows there are more to the sport than the surface layer like in most media. So I definitely give it a past, and I HOPE if season 2 actually is a thing, we'll see Reki win something.

[@uncarley]

i haven't read a fantasy book in years but im here

[@JordanHarveybooks]

I appreciate your support 😂❤

[@aeshiryzenaeschirett5415]

Same.

[@muskaan3711]

Omg this is a dream cross-over

[@coldhazzard]

Same

[@PopChanx]

Also, a tattooer protagonist would be so cool. I think a lot of authors just slap on "traditional artist" on their characters because they themselves don't bother researching other art forms, but want to bank on the archetypical vision of an artist, like you said. It would be so nice if authors branched out a bit from this safe and vague zone.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Totally agree! I would love to see another form of art - it would be so unexpected!!

[@johannageisel5390]

@@JordanHarveybooks Fashion design, for example. Just imagine a political court intrigue from the perspective of a protagonist like Rose Bertin.

[@lilahmanfredi1889]

Not exclusively a tattooer, but this makes me think of Adrian Everhart from the Renegades books! He’s a traditional artist by means of his superpower (they’re superhero books) and it’s rather creatively applied with tattoos (I don’t remember if elaborating would be spoilers, so I won’t ;)).

[@MrIcarusEl]

One of the protagonists in "House of Leaves" by Mark Z. Danielewski is a tattooer, or at least a tattoo assistant. It's a really good book too! One of my favourites

[@lightlawliet3526]

the way these vague art is described seems equivalent to a ten year old painting trees on a canvas.

[@MM-dw5ir]

First? Finally? I read a book where the artist uncontrollably couldn’t stop drawing the face of the woman he loved and I’m like. Bro. Just tweak the facial features and shapes around. Realistic portrait drawing is not some super emotional impulsive process, like you have to think about every decision

[@laurenalyssa4677]

(Was is the Savior's Champion because I screamed at that part)

[@MM-dw5ir]

@@laurenalyssa4677 YES 😭

[@Rachopin77]

I read that on and it really pulled me out of the story honestly. Like I’m a full time artist, and art doesn’t just magic out of a person’s brain without them realizing it until they’re done. The entire process is work and effort, even when you’re really good and comfortable. Even if I don’t know what I’m planning to have the final product be, I still have to make conscious decisions throughout the whole process of doing the art. I’ve had client work I wasn’t inspired to do, but I still just have to make conscious decisions to do it and meet the deadline. No one would be able to work for a client if art worked the way it does in that part lmao

[@lizbotnick]

The romantization of same face syndrome! But tbr it might have been lifted from the classic movie/play/novel The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie, where it actually plays really well with that part of the plot.

[@Corn_Pone_Flicks]

Was the video different for you than it was for the second guy? If not, then how is that enviable?

[@kimk948]

I knew Feyre was going to be in this video. It doesn’t get better in the rest of the books, actually, in the fandom, we actually think she’s bad at painting and joke about it

[@amypattie7004]

It felt pretty implied that she did folk art at the beginning, but then she’s painting landscape and portraits and now nothing makes sense.

[@PirateQueen1720]

This is stretching "artist" a little, but in 'Sunshine' the protagonist is a baker with a rather gothic sensibility (she invented a dessert that gushes cherry sauce when you stick a fork in that is called 'The Death of Marat')...who then starts hanging out with a vampire. Also, she can transmute objects, and baking is kind of a real-world version of that (flour and eggs etc. becoming something totally differents). And the bakery constantly comes up as the thing that grounds her to her normal life. So I think that interest/profession of hers was used well.

[@kuddlecat]

I need more info on this

[@thgritic102]

@Sunflowers Unfathomable I'm so going to look into this now. Thanks!

[@scribadibdib]

I still need to finish this book…

[@plague_doctor0237]

Well bakery can be considered a form of art, i've seen things that would be a shame to eat because they look like art pieces

[@everyonesfavoritesidechara3816]

That sounds awesome

[@doinkadoink6311]

Painters in Hollywood films be like: *delicately taps on already finished artwork with brush*

[@edenmckinley3472]

Yes! I can't tell you how many times my brothers or sisters walk in on me painting and go "Ooh, an orange canvas. That's it?" or "why does that lady have a mustache?" and I will spin around in a huff and shout "it's not finished yet!"

[@hwchen39]

As an artist, art historian, and someone who works in an art museum, I totally agree with your points. I also think (as someone who works with Asian art) when you include non-Western art into the mix there's a lot of awesome possibilities and ways to describe things differently. For instance, people tend to think of hyperrealism/naturalism as a purely European phenomenon but in Chinese painting during the Northern Song dynasty (960-1127), painters were really interested in naturalistically depicting animals and plants. The genre of depicting animals and flowers is also called "bird and flower" painting. Therefore if a Chinese person (or Japanese person b/c they were also interested in N. Song painting) were to encounter say a "hyperrealistic" Dutch flower or bird still life (which they may have during the 16th-18th centuries because of global trade) they might describe it as "in the style of a Northern Song bird-and-flower painting." That way you can still describe a work of art that is hyperrealistic but in an atypical way that centers the perspective and world of your Asian protagonist. This is a really granular example but I like the message of doing your research if you're going to write art into your world/book. There are so many great resources being put out by art museums and contemporary artists often give interviews on their working process so there's really no excuse to not flesh that out!

[@JordanHarveybooks]

That’s so interesting!! Thank you for sharing! Yes, naturalism, stylization, idealization, etc. all manifest in different ways in different cultures which should definitely be taken into account!

[@hwchen39]

@@JordanHarveybooks Definitely! Another thing I want is more protagonists who are ceramicists or potters! Working with clay has a bunch of weird rules. You could do everything right and it could still explode in the kiln. A really interesting memoir that I found myself unexpectedly enjoying is The Porcelain Theif by Huan Hsu which is part family memoir that also goes pretty in-depth about the history of porcelain production in China.

[@corycianangel6321]

For potential Asian artist protagonists, it would be easy if they're involved in woodcarving, pottery, embroidery, or metalworking. There's so much history and culture in those kinds of works.

[@lillylilium497]

@@hwchen39 Mix pottery with magic or alchemy, and you get even more explosions x) The possibilities are endless. I like your train of thought. I did some courses on art history and got so much inspiration out of it for my writing practices, even if I don't make my protagonist an artist. Some painters were real megalomaniacs (looking at you, Vasari) while saw their value elsewhere.

[@somethingclever8916]

She did a you tube video produced for pennies. Shes not PBS producing a Ken Burns 18 hour miniseries on art history. But sounds like you have an idea for an art video. :)

[@Jaaaannnneeee]

I actively avoid making my protagonists artists (mostly because I’m one and I don’t want them to come off self-inserty) and also because my personal experience with art, and the experience my art friends seem to have would be boring as hell to read about. Not super emotional or anything, just “oh that’s pretty maybe I’ll draw it” and “I can’t pay attention so I guess I’m drawing now” YA fantasy is always like, overdone about it.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

So true 😂

[@Lycaon1765]

The overdone part is what gets me the most. It's like those people who really hate the artist who made the art for those generic puzzles just because they're homey landscapes and not, "deep".

[@aro_spectre]

Yeah, in life, artists aren't the highly sensitive and interesting people they are thought to be. My paintings aren't there to showcase the depths of my soul, they're there because I saw a game in my Steam library that doesn't have a proper cover and it bugged me enough to actually make one. Offtopic, but I find the whole "art reflects who you are" thing sort of weird. Some of the most empty-minded, simple, and devoid of any meaning drawings in my gallery are the ones made during a depressive episode. The one time I managed to accurately reflect my personality in an autoportrait was when I was bored on a Friday evening. I tried to paint in order to cope with an emotion extremely once, and I only followed said emotion for the first 10 minutes; the 5 hours afterwards was just me tiredly scribbling the colors and shading in because I felt obligated to finish the damn thing.

[@taylorhall9509]

@@Lycaon1765 I've noticed the same thing. Art is expected to be "deep" otherwise it isn't art. Yet simple joy is sometimes whats best. Just because something isn't deep doesn't mean it isn't beautiful or likable in some other way. There's all sorts of art that people consume on a regular bases without even knowing it.. and the majority of it isn't the cliché "deep" art that they demand from other more recognizable as "art" art lol. If that makes sense

[@Jaaaannnneeee]

@LaBrava Altonia yeah!! No more sexy life drawing either! Only near tears oh God how do back muscles work life drawing

[@celia7700]

I'm a hobby artist, like honestly most of these characters are. And I truly agree with you in this vid, but want to add that the way characters paint (I mean the actual act of painting) is also very vague in these books. Again coming back to Feyre as our bad example, she paints an entire canvas in an afternoon. The timeline for art is often totally disregarded. I never see artist in books first sketch their designs, then carefully work through the details. I never read about them thinking "hmm do I feel more like a small sketch today, or do I want to start on something larger". There's just never any thought proces involved.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

So true!

[@HO-bndk]

"...an entire canvas in an afternoon..." Maybe she does it Bob Ross style.

[@johannageisel5390]

@@HO-bndk Or a very abstract modern style. Maybe she just covered herself in paint and rolled all over the canvas. There, done.

[@CiaLaVirago]

Also sjm never actually DESCRIBES what Feyre is painting, she just throws lots of adjectives at the reader hoping to distract them

[@vaishnavisingh9244]

@@johannageisel5390 the imagery is hilarious and I am so tempted to make my main character dip fingers in buckets of art and finger paint and just say: "I have done it folks, I have created a goddamn masterpiece"

[@manumuniz.mp4]

my favorite artist protagonist trope is “I step back to look at the painting I just finished and… No. It can’t be. Those unique golden-flecked blue eyes of his that are hazel in the sunlight and black at night and purple when I-those unique eyes of his stare back at me from the canvas.” like ok girl….did you not look at the painting once while working on it or what

[@carmenloner7743]

I wish there were more types of artists being shown. We see a lot of painters, but we don't really see that much of anything else. Like I personally would like to see a writer character or at least a poet character. I just want to see different art forms shown. Lots of people do more than just one thing and have different interests.

[@aduckwithabook5988]

Totally agree! Plus, I'd love to see authors take advantage of the freedom that comes with creating an entirely made up world and culture and introduce different forms of art that aren't considered high art in our society (like embroidery, decorative arts, crafts, etc.). Also, give me a buff sculptor any day.

[@johannageisel5390]

@@aduckwithabook5988 Ivory, bone and wood carving. Highly appreciated art forms in a culture in one of my writing projects. ^ ^

[@nanalove3819]

actually there is a lot of writers (the writers who wan't write a line is even a trope, and so is that super deep kid who writes poetry). Most of the times they are done in a very cliché ways but they are hear. I think we need more kind of arts though. Sculpture, potery, mime, humorists... There are so much possibilities.

[@QueenCloveroftheice]

I have a character in one of my projects who is a photographer. You hardly ever see that kind of artist in stories, but there’s so much you can do with that!

[@corycianangel6321]

Aren't there writer protagonists already like in Fangirl by Rainbow Rowell?

[@swarple]

Two words: Art style. The SPECIFICS of someone’s subjects and style say a lot about the way they see the world, and what they focus on when they look at things. Not all artists just look at the natural world around them in wonder and awe at the beauty of it. Some people make intentionally ugly art, either as a social statement or as just a reflection of their bleak worldview. Or maybe for a dark type of comedy (which still implies a bleak worldview). Some people focus on people, others on animals, others on environments. People will focus on specific PARTS of those things, or specific technical aspects. I’m a comic artist. My art is very cartoony (most of it doesn’t look as cartoony as my current icon but it’s still cartoony). I focus a lot on characters and their acting in my art, and that’s what I’m good at. Because when I look at the world and the stories that the world (and imagination) has to offer, I first and foremost think about the people and emotions involved. I was in a lot of plays as a kid. So acting through drawing characters is fun for me. And a cartoony style gives me a chance to exaggerate the acting with big facial expressions and poses. What I draw and how I draw it is a reflection of the way I look at the world, and my personality. When it comes to artists in stories, the same should go for them! But instead they’re all just painters who paint the same kind of stuff in the same kind of way, regardless of their personality. It’s weird to me. Also art is hard and it’s pain. I wish more artist protagonists were openly like “F*** THIS IS HARD I HATE DRAWING TREES” or something

[@Malu-ut5lb]

AHSUWGWIWGWU I relate so much about drawing trees 🏌

[@plague_doctor0237]

I draw a lot of flower like monstruous beasts, i guess it expresses the fact that I like nature, even with all of its grotesque details, beauty of the ugly

[@cianoakheart5132]

New-wave Surrealism: a young modern Meme-curator discovers patterns of eldritch patterns of cosmic power in Gen Z surreal memes.

[@Envy_May]

HFFGDHFHF WHAT

[@cianoakheart5132]

@@Envy_May I said patterns twice, my bad. Point is: Gen Z memes are weird as hell, and I could totally see them being used to channel Lovecraftian magic.

[@Envy_May]

@@cianoakheart5132 in fairness lovecraft himself would probably genuinely be afraid of them if he could see them

[@cianoakheart5132]

@@Envy_May I believe that. Lovecraft was scared of practically everything.

[@maximeteppe7627]

@@cianoakheart5132 In the vein of lovecraft country and other post lovecraftian political fiction, using eldritch influence in memes as maybe a parable for the way literal nazis normalize their ideas via memes and humor - Lovecraft himself having been a huge racist this could be quite appropriate. Although, not all fiction has to reflect my fears about the future of politics.

[@larissa8003]

You're not wrong about acotar series, don't worry! Nobody really knows what feyre's painting in any of the books or whatever painting described that she's looking at

[@elrilmoonweaver4723]

She also has a bad habit of looking at a .... scene (shall we say) and visualizing it as a painting in her mind, but never following through with it. Whenever she did that and came up with a particularly cringy name, the artist in me surfaced and was like: "OMFG, SHUT UP ALREADY!"

[@toricarlini4474]

I just picture stick figures

[@gabilouw8218]

Idk man when I read Acofas I could definitely visualise better what Feyre was painting but i think that might be because that was KIND of the focus of the novella

[@emma-di5ly]

That's one of the reasons why I gave up on ACOTAR. I was excited to read it because I loved the Throne of Glass series, but ACOTAR was just unreadable for a couple of reasons.

[@jbpeony7872]

animation is already real magic. Someone could be an illusionist using animation techniques. Using masterful understanding on how weight, material and anatomy affect motion to make an illusion that's more convincing than others. Maybe so convincing the illusions can actually physically affect the world

[@maximeteppe7627]

there's a moment in the stormlight archive (book 2) where Shallan, a gifted sketch artist and "lightweaver", uses a sequence of sketches as basis to allow an illusion to move.

[@audreyajose632]

The artsy eyeshadow!🔥

[@xChikyx]

killer makeup

[@HO-bndk]

The last time I had eyelids that colour, I'd been in a fight. 😃

[@ellasharon1899]

Authors: why aren’t you writing author characters? Wouldn’t you know quite a bit about writing?

[@MysticOceanDollies]

*Little Women joins the chat

[@Axl4325]

I just started writing so this is more of a rookie opinion than an expert´s, but writing an artist just seems easier and less self inserty than writing a writer character. In my case I thought it would be weird to make the protagonist a writer, so I made him an artist, also helps the plot just a little more

[@andreas_iced8297]

"They looked at the screen. _wow. I hate what I've written._ They closed the screen. And then never looked at their WIP until 6 months later."

[@000reiii]

I mean, two books I read whose protagonists are authors have died in the end of the story. Its a heartbreaking experience

[@ellasharon1899]

@@000reiii well damn.

[@MissHolliday3110]

I personally don't care about the details of the art because I'm not an artist. However, we need to see the manifestations of a character's passions in their daily life or how they see the world. An artist is going to notice color and texture. They'll describe them differently than others. They may also give more visual details about their world in general because they seek visual stimuli. One of the characters in my novel sings and plays a guitar-like instrument. Singing is not a passion, but rather a talent that earns him attention. He's the sort that would rather pursue something other than music, BUT because he's musical, sound is a significant part of how he will explore the world. One good example of an artist protagonist is Shallan from the Stormlight Archive. She uses her talent for a specific reason, and (without spoiling) her art has a connection with her mental health.

[@elbowtheslow2761]

I was coming here to mention Shallan as well! From the beginning of the series her being an artist helps shape how we see the world from her eyes vs. from any other character's. In addition to it being a part of her personality and mental health and such, it's also a great world building technique where we're given reason to have a better understanding of the world because of her interest in things and what she decides needs to be captured.

[@lexlovesblondsz]

Ack this is so true actually! I'm a new artist and ever since i started doing art, I notice little details in almost everything basically.

[@psychoticsilver]

"A sculptor sculpts a statue and it comes to life and they fall in love" There is a myth somewhat similar to that from Ancient Greece. A channel by the name of Overly Sarcastic Productions has a video on it called "Miscellaneous Myths: Galatea". It's quite interesting I highly recommend it.

[@gouachemole]

I’ve decided to head canon that Feyre actually does Jackson Pollock-style paintings

[@nyapomu]

I find realy strange that it seems to be mainly visual artists in fantasy, especialy pseudo-medieval setting when the the most available form of art to the general population would have been songs/epics (chanson de geste) wich traveling artists (troubadours) would bring from village to village, realy just Jaskier from the Witcher. Or traveling circus/theatre/spectacle groups. Wich you know is easier to depict in writing. (See the work of Tolkien, littered with songs)

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Yeah, and even with visual art there are quite a few crafts like weaving, embroidery, tapestry-making, coin making, pottery, etc. that are rarely seen.

[@johannageisel5390]

@@JordanHarveybooks Cave paintings. There is a crucial lack of cave painter protagonists.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

@@johannageisel5390 Listen, I know you're joking, but I'm a bit obsessed with cave paintings - they have a lot of mystery and obviously we don't know anything for sure, but they can be extremely sophisticated (and perhaps some of the earliest animation in human history)!!

[@johannageisel5390]

@@JordanHarveybooks I know! I was only half-joking. It was more like: "Hey, this would be unorthodox, but could be really cool!" I appreciate the old art forms. These people may not have used art in a purely decorative way, but they still often put a lot of effort into making it look good. There was even a case where we could learn more about the fur colourings of ancient wild horses because we had paintings of them.* I think it's really awesome that we have these documents of the past. The problem with writing about ancient cultures is, that we have so little real knowledge about them, so any story would be mostly conjecture. But a story about a cave painter would be really interesting and cool. - * There is a video about the value of cave art for paleontologists: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZK3XqRpm8p8b9U

[@ivylilybasket]

Maybe you'd like "The Bloody Rose" by Nicholas Eames, main character is a bard who joins a band of mercenaries.

[@akernis3193]

My favourite artist protagonist by far is Shallan from the Stormlight Archive. For one thing the book actually includes a selection of her drawings so we get to see them firsthand. Secondly it feels like an important part of who she is. She frequently draws when she is excited or happy or to get herself to relax when she is stresed. Thirdly her drawing skills ties directly into the plot in both small and significant ways several times across the books. And it even becomes an integral part of how she later learns to do magic.

[@jessicatatum7769]

I came looking for this comment. I agree 1000%

[@Alias_Anybody]

My protagonist is a civil engineer, which is related to the world building. If a lot of the story takes place underground someone has to plan and expand that infrastructure, right? The knowledge and prestige connected with it play into the plot. Now, it's not medieval fantasy, and he's not an artist, so what's my point? I think that any central skill or occupation of the MC in any work should either aid world or character building (ideally both) in some form, otherwise it feels like a Chekhov's Gun fired into the void. Vague artistic skills just feel like tacked on sophistication.

[@vikillustrations]

Shallan Davar from the Stormlight Archive is the best artist protagonist I have ever come across. Her art is not only relevant to her character, but also plays a role in the plot and speaks a lot about the culture. She is also a scholar and uses her art for research, which makes it easy to imagine what her art actually looks like. Sketchy, but precise and realistic with attention to detail, and a ton of notes

[@aoifemuller3751]

Agree! I've only begun reading the Stormlight Archive and I already love her. It's actually interesting to read the descriptions of her art.

[@Gigglepud]

Yes to all of this! And definitely loved the touch of crediting the illustrations in the book to Shallan!

[@majesticmundanity]

I was surprised when Shallan didn’t come up in the video at all because she’s the only artist protagonist that I had heard about

[@maximeteppe7627]

I love the stormlight archive, but I have a bit of a gripe about the lack of description of architecture and art outside of Shallan's. The Alethi are seemingly an amalgamation of Japanese and feudal european with heavy constraints on their culture due to the frequent highstorms... but descriptions are quite sparse beyond the use of bunker like structures and wind brakes.

[@bedoil]

"historically artists have been messed up" YES. just take a look at Francis Bacon, Van Gogh, Caravaggio, or Balthus. I'm sure there are more and more people that I haven't mentioned I found this quite interesting. I'm working on a script where art and psychological states are presented in an Utena or Evangelion-esque fashion and I'm writing it with the thought of it being translated into something visual (since I'm an animation student) so this admittedly takes away some of the difficulty of trying to express it through words alone lol

[@Gangstalkedbythecia07]

Blue period has great art characters it's a manga about an academically smart student who was dismissive towards the effort of art to trying to become an artist and is set in an art school

[@elrilmoonweaver4723]

Shallan! Shallan from Stormlight Archive Is probably best rendition of an artist I've read because she displays the mindset of an artist; couple that with a scholarly interest and you have a very curious artist character. On top of that, her ability to make art ties in to the plot in the second book. Also helps that there are drawings supposedly MADE by her throughout the book :D

[@394seed5]

i almost had a heart attack at the title because the only artist protag that i know of is yatora from blue period and i thought he was gonna be here. but thank god he isn’t he’s really well-written, blue period in general is well written.

[@UmbraKrameri]

I have only seen this done right in contemporary YA books, mainly I Will Give You The Sun and The Astonishing Color of After. There, the visuality of the main characters' art is directly represented in the style of the narration and it makes the story visually and emotionally investing on a whole new level. PS.: When it comes to fantasy and representing other cultures I'm kind of obsessed with this idea of an origami artist who can use magic turn their creations into living beings, but only if the figure can be done perfectly from one continuus piece of paper.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Ooh that is a cool idea! And I haven't read either of those, but I will definitely have to check them out now!!

[@whitneygrace4733]

Like the movie Kubo and the Two Strings! One of the only movies I've seen that used magic with origami; the most beautiful movie I've seen by far. I'd love to see more stories/movies like that.

[@alexsterio8258]

@@whitneygrace4733 Yes! Kubo is such a beautiful film

[@UmbraKrameri]

@@whitneygrace4733 Oooh, I love that movie, it's one of my favorite animated movies ever! But the idea actually came from a conversation I had with a friend on a long bus ride. He's a math teacher and his hobby is origami. There's actually a wonderfully complex math behind making these very delicate 3D objects from a 2D material. It borders on magical irl too.

[@UmbraKrameri]

@@JordanHarveybooks I feel like I undersold them, but I am glad you are interested. :) Both are beautiful books where the art is truly the extension of the characters' soul and the main way for them to understand and cope with personal tragedies. Also, the art is modern and definitely not hiperrealistic, so that's also a plus.

[@Aquaphor351]

Thank you for this video! It's something I've ranted about to my sibling but I never dreamed other people noticed this or cared! Feyre was the single worst offender of Bad Artist Protagonists (and, like you, you could not pay me enough to read any more of SJM's works; truly atrocious writing, world-building, characterization, etc), but artist protags in general annoy me so much. One huge reason they annoy me is because the way they're written is always incredibly hokey, forced, romanticized, and unrealistic. You can tell the author wants to give their protag a "quirky n cool" personality trait but has no idea what actual artists are like. I'm an actual artist and no, we don't float around constantly thinking silly romantic thoughts like "I'd love to paint that! I need to paint that!" whenever we see a beautiful color, item, person, whatever. Art is a genuine extension of ourselves; it flows freely. It's not forced and deliberate, the way authors write it in their books. They force art into their character in the most superficial and cringiest of ways and then keep doing it, lest the reader NEVER forget "Hey, did you remember that the character is an ARTIST? She likes to PAINT. She sees blue eyes and immediately feels the NEED to rush to her paintbox and paint them. She's DEEP like that." In reality, most artists constantly procrastinate their work and often pretend their art doesn't exist so they can avoid doing it at the moment 😂 And we have so many frustrating moments where our art is annoying or simply not working, and we set it aside and ignore it for a while. Like all REAL hobbies, it flows from us naturally but can also be frustrsting. And when it IS natural and real, you don't spend all of your time deliberately thinking about it in a forced way.

[@crvptozoology]

SUCH a good video!! as an art student i'm always frustrated with stories with characters who are "artists", but its totally clear the author hasn't put in a lot of thought into it. varied and interesting depictions of all types of artists are so needed! (especially printmaking!! printmaking has such a long and interesting history!! which is why the love interest for a webcomic i'm developing is a printmaker, haha)

[@lenahorta7685]

I also feel like somehow artsy protagonists are written to get artists to read the books. The first thing you do when you start a book is look for fanart, and even tho authors sometimes commission artists to illustrate characters, I feel like making a relatable character to this specific public is a way to get free art and, somehow, free adds, for the books. The more fanart a book has, the more readers it gets. Don’t judge a book by its cover, judge it by its fanart

[@manumuniz.mp4]

also I feel like a lot of authors want to give their characters some depth so they’re like “they need a hobby” and the first thing that comes up if you’re trying to think of hobbies that were around back then is like…art

[@cinthiacruzado2594]

I wish there were also performing arts. One of my characters Tsuna is an expressionist dancer similar to the dancers of 2018's Suspiria and she uses it as an advantage to practiceblood magic. Dancing, especially ballet and expressionism, counts as art because it has a form if expression similar to painting and drawing. They're expressing emotions or telling a story through the movement of their body.

[@gothcentaur]

“Artists are the most messed up,twisted people” As an artist…*Yes*

[@georgeheingartner6995]

Also worth a genre fiction mention, perhaps, is Grand Admiral Thrawn from Tim Zahn’s Star Wars books. Thrawn’s interest in and study of other species’ and cultures’ art informs his military genius.

[@luvamiart8567]

I'm an illustrator and a writer, and that thing about artists being mentally nuts... how dare you say something that is entirely true.

[@goldenpotato392]

Bruh 😂😂😂😂😭😭😭

[@HuckleberryCyn]

The video was everything I’ve ever wanted. I’m not an artist myself, but I feel like you don’t have to be to know when an author represents artists badly. Feyre is the worst rep I could think of and Isobel was the best so far and I was so vindicated when you used them as an example! I know this video was a lot of work and you did an amazing job.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Thanks so much! I'm glad you enjoyed it!!

[@johannageisel5390]

34:55 That story of the statue that comes to life? You mean "Pygmalion"? The story that has been told and retold a hundred times? :D I really like this video.! And I would love to see one by you with tips how to do "art worldbuilding", meaning: How to come up with an aesthetic for a fantasy world that is both believable and original. You already touched on a couple of points in this one, but if you feel like it, I would totally watch a more extensive one. On all the worldbuilding channels I follow, I think I have not seen any video about art in the fantasy world. Probably because none of these worldbuilding youtubers have a background in art history. Btw. I have a minor idea for a little story about an ork artist. Basically, in this world (which is not very fleshed out yet), orks have been freed from the influence of whatever Dark Lord thingy there has been and now have to build up a civilization and culture for themselves that does not rely on raiding human villages. And this one young man tries to make art and find his own "orkish style". He even travels far away to a prestigious art academy in a human city, but they arrogantly send him away because his work seems so primitive in their eyes.

[@clarissamartinez5665]

as an artist...I agree lol. also in the way that art in general is approached in TV shows and movies.

[@kellijohnson6449]

Books with or about artist characters that I highly recommend (some, not all, fantastical): "A Little Life" by Hanya Yanagihara; "Killing Commendatore" by Haruki Murakami; "Violin" by Anne Rice (this one's a bit intense, but immersive)

[@jam5369]

I think Maggie write Hennessy and Jordan (two black girl characters in the book Call Down The Hawk) really well as artists. But she, Maggie, is also an artist that has a great way with words, so it makes sense. And I learnt so much art history from that book.

[@lilydapug5399]

*gasp* yay I found a comment talking about the Dreamer Trilogy! I love how Maggie writes Jordan and Hennessy, it definitely makes sense that she’s an artist too. This is such an underrated series, I’ve loved learning about art!

[@rachellarson8851]

I think the same thing happens with musicians! I've never seen being a musician portrayed correctly (but that might be because I avoid books, movies and TV shows about musicians lol). For example, Glee was absolutey horrible at this. Especially in a school setting. Like the band that would play with the glee club in the class, apparently had every song memorized and can play with no problem. One time Puck taught Quinn how to play chords on a guitar, and she was instantly able to play a song. Teaching people chords on the guitar is very difficult!!! And they were never prepared for their competitions! Generally, for any performance, the songs would be chosen months before hand, and practiced for months! Those are just 3 of the many things that annoyed me about that show. And most media I've seen, they show writing songs to be very easy. Like someone will come up with an idea, then they just have a complete song. Like how?? Songs typically go through some of evolution and input from the whole band. And the musicians that can do that, train to be really good at improve, like jazz musicians. And in many books, you can tell that the author has never played an instrument before. They'll use terminology wrong, and describe playing instruments very oddly. Like, no, I don't think about what every individual finger is doing at all times. There's always shapes and patterns on any instrument that you learn, and you just play them. Honestly, it is hard to describe how to play music. But the best way I thought of it, as is learning how to read. Like, when you learn how to read, you have to learn what sounds the letters represent, and what they mean, and its pretty slow and hard to figure out how to do. But when you've learned how to read, you just do it and you don't have to think hard about it and in small little pieces. Anyway, my rant is over. I hope some fellow musicians agree with me lol

[@Destinnies]

What do you think about "Soul"?

[@rachellarson8851]

@@Destinnies I haven't watched it. Based on the trailers, the musician stuff seemed alright. But I think its only a small part of the movie, and its hard to tell based solely on the trailers

[@ShoshYusufov]

*An enchantment of ravens* was the only book i've read with a good description of art and the protagonist felt like a true Artist🙈

[@lucy_griff]

OH MY GOSH YESSSSSSS I LOVE THIS BOOK‼️

[@Katie1812.]

The eyeshadow is so good it’s distracting me

[@audreyajose632]

I'm really enjoying your video essay type videos, would definitely watch more👏

[@JordanHarveybooks]

I'm glad!! I definitely enjoy making them 😊

[@amypattie7004]

**me, a an artist with a significant love interest** wait what is my husbands eye colour again?

[@kate-ne]

Ooo I'm here to strap in! I know nothing about art really, but I'm ready to learn something 🤓 One thing I would love for your long form videos is time stamps! KZbin has that chapters feature now so it is nice for getting a visual outline for the argument/video ☺️

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Oh true! I haven't played around with those, but I definitely should. I'll see if I can add them retroactively to this!!

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Update: I've added them!!

[@kate-ne]

@@JordanHarveybooks you are awesome!!! 💕

[@cjfer00]

I don't read much fanstasy but I've been thinking about this a lot in regard to both artist protags and writer protags. Often it feels just like the author is choosing the "easy" way out by giving their protag a creative job because that's what they know about (my favorite example: Stephen King's protagonists are almost always writers, which can sometimes feel repetitive and even masturbatory, as he describes it himself in The Body). It almost comes across as being afraid to do the research to give the protagonist a different hobby or job, which then leaves the characters without a lot of depth. People's jobs and hobbies are literally their life! You spend your life cultivating it or going to school for it, and if an author gives a protag a half-baked creative hobby, it really shows. And as you've described beautifully in this video, it's not easy or simply by any means to write about an artist. There's so much history and technique and personal struggle that goes into being an artist/creating art, so just slapping a protag with ~she's a painter~ feels lazy, shallow, and meaningless, especially when, as you say, art can play such a pivotal role in explaining character or building the world of a story. One of the things that has stuck with me from a creative writing course I took literal years ago was that people like to read about people with interesting or weird jobs or hobbies. It adds intrigue, especially when it's plot relevant! Basically, nothing should be "just because" in a story, and especially not "just because" an author was afraid to do the research. A job or even a hobby shapes the character's life, world, and worldview, and shouldn't be so expendable. Two artist protagonists I love are April May from An Absolutely Remarkable Thing, as she's a graphic designer I believe and it really fits with the sci-fi-reliance-on-tech-and-social-media theme of the book (even though her day job is necessarily abandoned for plot purposes, but not in an unimportant way!), and Blue Sargent from the Raven Cycle series, because Blue is less of a self-described artist and more of a person who finds things (leaves, clothes, newspapers, etc) and repurposes them not in technically "useful" ways, but just to create beautiful or simply interesting things. It highlights her youth and her curiosity and her creativity in a way that also aligns with the themes of that series. Sorry for the super long comment, but I loved the video!! This is something that I think about all the time, so I appreciated it and am looking forward to the next essay-style video!

[@PopChanx]

This is so interesting. I adore when you do analysis like these! Your interest in art has made me learn a few things about it, haha. Also, love the eyeshadow!! You're looking great, Jordan! Love to see you uploading again.

[@lisilu8776]

if I took a shot every time Feyre said in the first book alone that she could "never capture __ in paint" I'd have alcohol poisoning in the earliest chapters.

[@tattoowithlea]

Thanks for mentioning Feyre. As an artist myself I hated every scene where she painted as it was always so vague and therefore super boring.

[@jtaylor5857]

YAY JORDAN!!! Been looking forward to this!

[@elizaxeight]

You might like the character of Adrian in Renegades by Marissa Meyer, whose superpower [in a world where people with superpowers is not unusual] is to make his drawings come to life. He manages to apply this in an imaginative way - I won't say more, due to spoilers, but it's integral to his character arc. In Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive, the character of Shallan's drawings are actually included within the novel, which I think is a really nice touch.

[@ruffethereal1904]

I was just inspired by your talk and wanted to try my hand at demonstrating how the artist's style can be described in writing: If Malik had to describe this new, 'offensive', 'avant-garde' painter's work in word, it would be this: "'Ferocious." The angles, the lines, the forms were all so sharp, so pointed, sometimes to the point of being distorted, everything needed to resemble a sharp knife, a sharp claw, or sharp teeth, as if all things on the canvas were supposed to resemble some monstrous predators from the realm of nightmares. It only made the chaotic cacophony of color all the more jarring: reds, purples, greens, blues, oranges, browns, silvers, whites, blacks, all seemingly painted on without rhyme nor reason, as if the piece wasn't meant to delight the eye, it was meant to offend the viewer, to make them sick, to make them look away. That is, of course, if they weren't already turned off by the depictions of demonic creatures creeping up from shadows, of horribly distorted figures being bent, broken, and ripped apart, of familiar scenes and forms so sharpened, so stretched out, so disfigured it was almost like you were peering into a vision of hell. If Malik had to guess, the painter had not been visited by divine inspiration so much as the horrific scenes had forced themselves into their mind, used those sharp claws to rip themselves out of their skull, they crawled out onto the canvas and started scratching and clawing at it, trying to mark their territory as hundreds of other members of the horde were, the end result was this brutal, bloody battlefield or a tenuous truce amongst the survivors for continued existence. It was impossible to tell which. 0Which made it all the more unpleasant that he was supposed to supervise said artist for the next year. His stomach churning, all his diplomatic training in the seminary unable to help him fake a smile nor keep the tremble out of his voice, he turned to the artist, still patiently standing next to him, her wide, almost blank grey eyes looking at him, her arms listlessly hanging by her sides. "Well?" she asked. It was without hostility. It was without emotion. It sounded as flat and bored as you would be asking about the weather for lack of anything else to talk about. "Have you..." Malik started, "have you thought of making something more pleasant...?" She frowned--it was the first obvious emotion he'd seen from her at all. "It's not supposed to be pleasant," she said. "But art is supposed to be a celebration!" Malik said, forcing a smile. "A glorious tribute to the beauty of the world! Gratitude made manifest to the progenitors, a record of what they had blessed us with, so that future generations may also get a glimpse of what we have experienced." Her expression was unchanged. "Not MY art," she said.

[@carlixalfonzo]

The fact that this video comes up at the same time i found the only thing i can't stand about the savior series by jenna moreci (the fact that Tobias is called an artist so many times that the plot doesn't show BUT tell he is an artist)... I don't know if its just good timing or Jordan can read our minds.

[@JeanetHenning]

Absolutely love your eye makeup for today's video. I still have a lot of your most recent videos to catch up on but honestly a fantastic video to start on. I love your old videos and still sometimes rewatch them but honestly, this educational approach is just *chef's kiss*. It reminds me of the writing diaries that you had at one point. Always good to see your videos pop up on my feed. Hope you have a great day, Jordan!

[@lilydapug5399]

An underrated series is the Dreamer Trilogy by Maggie Stiefvater. The first book is Call Down the Hawk, and it’s a spin-off series from The Raven Boys (also a great series, highly recommend). Anyway, Jordan and Hennessy are two characters who are art forgers. I love how Maggie writes them as artists, she does a great job. Something I’ve loved reading about is how Jordan changes with her art. In the second book, she paints her first original painting and it’s a huge turning point for her character, and it’s really meaningful. Art is a huge part of the plot as well. I won’t get into any spoilers, but let’s just say that some famous paintings are magic. Jordan and Hennessy talk about famous paintings a lot, and I’ve learned a lot from the book and from Googling paintings. I’m not very knowledgeable about art history and all, I’d love to hear about the significance of the pieces mentioned from a more professional/educated person. I’m sure everything is very meaningful though, and I’ve been doing some research to find out more! The characters visit the Isabella Stewart Gardener Museum a lot in the second book, and learning about its history and paintings was amazing. Also, like you said about artists being crazy, Hennessy and Jordan definitely have their issues. They’re definitely artists, lol. I’ve never read of art forgers before, and I really like how it was written and handled in this series. Anyway, sorry for rambling, I just love this series!

[@starkazing7817]

This was super interesting! I don't know much about art/art history and it's not something I focus on in (Fantasy) novels, but I really enjoyed your in-depth look at it. It was super informative and made me look at these books in a "new" angle. One artist character that comes to mind is Shallan from the Stormlight Archive (adult High Fantasy) by Brandon Sanderson. She is one of the main characters and art plays a big role for her character. Although I don't think that art plays such an integral role in the plot/world as you suggested here, I'd still love to hear your take on the execution of the artist character there.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

That's been on my list for a while, but I didn't know it had an artist protagonist! Hopefully I'll be able to pick it up soon!!

[@fruitpunchsamurai4837]

@@JordanHarveybooks I feel like Shallan being an artist plays a more functional role in the story. Not only is it a coping mechanism she's developed over the years, but at the beginning of the books she starts out as an apprentice to a scientist, which is where her desire to accurately depict the natural world comes in handy. Throughout the books people use her to depict new discoveries or make maps. Plus, a really cool thing is that the author hires actual artists and puts a lot of different drawings in the books themselves, most of which are canonically done by Shallan. This helps us understand the world better (because high fantasy) and Shallan's relationship to her art. Also, I just thought this was cool but when making the leatherbound edition of the books the author paid a bunch of really popular fanartists in the community to add their already existing fanart to the book

[@giuliapaschoarelli4480]

This video was honestly so inspiring and original. I've literaly come up with many ideas for my stories while watching it lol

[@TheRockyCrowe]

Great points! I also think its complicated by two other problems; (a) an author who isn't an artist and/or has not dwelved into understanding how artists think, different styles of art, tools etc. resulting in a bland character that feels disconnected. Then there's the reverse problem (b) an author who IS an artist and creates a self-insert character they get lost in, forgetting their audience probably isn't interested in multiple paragraphs describing their art and process, especially if it doesn't play a significant role in the story.

[@sercemwksiazkach]

A story where the sculpture comes to life? Do you mean the myth of Pygmalion (this is such a great idea we need a retelling)

[@wildlynervousdaze9243]

This is my favorite video by you. I loved the different ideas about how to handle such a protagonist and how they could factor into the story, as well as the suggestions to make it translate organically. I dont know it's obvious you put a lot of work and love into the video, and I just wanted you to know I really, really loved it.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

I'm so glad! Yeah, this one was definitely a passion project haha

[@JessCsBooks]

I love this video! I feel very similarly about musical/singer protagonists. I have a similarly long rant about those particular protagonists haha

[@KierTheScrivener]

Absolutely adored this, I was not very into physical art until last year as I have no talent to draw a straight line so I always thought of it as sonething barred from me. But I have been falling in love with art, artists and what they can say and history. So loved this video!

[@JordanHarveybooks]

I'm so glad! There's so many different types of art, so no one should feel as though they can't do it. And yes!! Art history is the best!!!

[@aj_814]

very satisfied with this analysis and as a massive art history nerd, i’m now highly tempted to write an artist protagonist just to knock it out of the park

[@bricklol999]

not a book and not the main-main character but my favorite artist character has to be Lin Chung from Hero 108. His interest in art is shown throughout the series, and it showed him sucking at it at first, but around the last episodes, his drawings improved a lot. Miss that show.

[@colonelsanders177]

Honestly, most artists I know and I aren't thinking pretentious things, or what it represents. Most of us are just screaming inside about hands or why that perspective doesn't EXACTLY look right.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

I think it depends right? Historically many artists worked and learned under masters or at institutions. Some of those masters were very innovative in the art world. It was also a very difficult career - so yes, a lot of artistic expression was focused on the art, but the only people rich enough to commission art were religious institutions and nobility for a very very long time. That means it’s also inherently political. So you’re right in that a lot of contemporary artists won’t be thinking about it - which is why I didn’t put as much emphasis on that in that section of the video. But the historical artists likely would be thinking about what things represent because their clients are powerful people and symbolism is a powerful tool.

[@shaqiniramlan6516]

For me, I think the fact that they just KNOW what to draw and paint a finished detailed piece immediately after getting inspo is wild. No references? No draft?! No breakdown cuz the colors just doesn't seem to be THE RIGHT HUE??! WHERE'S THE LIGHT SOURCE?!!! The artist protagonist just seems to be incredible in their art, like as an artist I literally go "I wanna draw this", "Can I draw this?", "I can draw this!", *processed to not be able to draw it an getting artist blocked halfway through the process*, "I can't draw this...", "I did it! And I hate it!"

[@h_k_hellion7268]

As a "writer in the making" and a person who loves to analyse art and it's affects, I really enjoyed your video explaining how art could be used in stories to add interesting depth to a story. You get a sub from me PS. love the eye shadow, really nice

[@waltermanson999]

Amazing video ! Great idea for a video too ! You just keep getting better and better ! I love when their are bookish elements in books, the Protagonist being an author is a difficult one to get right too!

[@andromeda3853]

The way I knew Clary would've been in this video before I even watched it. It felt like they completely forgot about her being an artist.

[@nooz797]

My favorite artistic protagonist is Kvoth from The Name of Wind, he is a musician and even if we can’t hear him play, the emotion are so well written

[@laurenalyssa4677]

Sorry I'm watching the video right now and I have to pause and say YOUR EYESHADOW IS STUNNING

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Thank you!!

[@slowdancers]

I don't know how many times I can say THANK YOU!!! for this? I've been having a hard time trying to make sense of this artist protagonist I have for a story I've got going and this really helped me to put certain things into perspective that I was missing, so yeah! thank you Jordan!

[@JordanHarveybooks]

I'm so glad!!

[@mikaylaashley8123]

Wow, this was an incredible video! So many well thought out points and great examples! I’m so impressed!!

[@xChikyx]

i have no words to describe how much i love this kind of videos

[@isabellacangemi5329]

Great video! Great eyeshadow as well!

[@SebastianSeanCrow]

1:40 on that I would describe it not in technical detail but like in feelings and metaphors and poetics alongside the technical stuff. Cuz art is meant to make you feel something or is someone channeling their feelings.

[@frostkiss2]

Finally!!! Thank you for talking about this issue and your thorough video!

[@moe-gy5se]

an artist protagonist i really like is the main character in the manga Blue Period, i think he was done well

[@platopotato7971]

This video came up in my recommended and I was so excited by the possibility of an analysis of Shallan from the Stormlight series (easily the best fantasy I’ve ever read) by someone who has a background in art history but unfortunately not today

[@JordanHarveybooks]

So many people have brought up that series in the comments. I will definitely be checking it out and will likely make a video on it in the future!

[@katie750]

I love how genuinely passionate and interested in the subject you seem, it makes the video so much more enjoyable :))

[@dragonslayer101]

As an artist, I am not mentally insane nor am I an asshole. Thank you for your time.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

I said historically most artist have been assholes. I think that’s changed lots with new societal standards as well as the perception of art and artists changing 👍

[@Lycaon1765]

Nah, why they're bad is usually that they're super fucking cringey and/or pompous. It's always either that character who: 1. Is the quiet kid in school and looks around at all the "jocks" and "popular girls" and says how "there's two kinds of people in the world, zombies and the woke" or some other type of edgelord shit. 2. The person with some thin, false veneer of righteousness that always waxes poetically about the detail, craftsmanship, meaning, and class struggle of their friend's red fruit of the loom shirt's capitalistic, polyester fabric. They're always high-key "I'm 14 and this is deep" material because the 50+ year old author is trying so, so, _so_ hard to appeal to the youngins.

[@joannamarieart]

I absolutely agree with you here. I just want to note that one of the BEST examples I've ever read of an 'artist protag' is a book I just finished - Love Lettering by Kate Clayborn. The protag isn't a fine art painter, but rather a hand lettering artist and it's woven throughout the whole book. Really fun to read and be able to actually see the world through the artistic eyes of someone who sees things you don't see. That's more of what I would like to see, vs. "I paint because I'm so quirky/misunderstood/interesting".

[@stefanocarlo7564]

Relly interesting topic! I would like to recommend season of 2 of Within the Wires, it's ficional podcast abot a light sci-fi world and the protagonist of season 2 is a museum curator and an artist herself. The art that she produces and talk about is wonderfully descripted and weaved into the history of the universe; actually the whole story is told through the recordings of different museum's audioguides. Really cool stuff!

[@emmarina3525]

So truuuee. Especially in Egyptian romance movies - the man is always drawing the woman he likes. I swear. Like. Dude. No, enough, you're obsessed. And they hire a really good artist to draw the portraits too

[@weeabooper]

Loving this Art Throughout the Ages recap 😍

[@dawngrove7053]

I just started the video but I need to say I love your eyeshadow!😍

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Thank you!

[@neonkid169]

it's a manga protagonist and manga itself about making art and art schools so I would recommend everyone to read Blue Period by Tsubasa Yamaguchi. It really does hit close to the heart with well written complex characters but the first volume is filled with info dump like what is a perspectif, explaining color theory etc. but still, I would highly recommend it to anyone even who has a slight interest in art. SPECIALLY READ IT IF YOU THINK PICASSO IS OVERRATED (this is an inside joke)

[@KoreaWithKids]

You know that piece "Art Critic" by Norman Rockwell? I had seen reproductions of it many times but had never realized that the paint blobs on the palette are actual, straight-out-of-the-tube PAINT BLOBS until I saw it in person. That was pretty cool.

[@lillianclark2159]

I think part of this could be solved if people added more art to their books. Some stylized books do this, but for most part only children's books have art. I'm not looking for the entire book to have illustrations. I just think it would be so cool if there were 3 or 4 full page pictures that signify a characters changing mental state or a new theme.

[@chromaimp1315]

I immediately thought of ACOTAR when I saw the title lol. As an artist it's always so painfully obvious when writers just.. don't do any research. It would've been enough to just talk to one single person who works in the medium they want to write about but they just didn't.

[@beeley99]

i knew you were coming for feyre and im here for it haha when i DARED to say she was a bad artist on twitter ppl came for my throat even tho i like her as a character?? you can like a character and still point out flaws in the writing, after all its not the character's fault it was written like that.

[@gladiator652004]

This video was useful for those of us writing outside the fantasy genre too. Thanks!

[@BlackoutArtz]

30:20 Hitler: *Whistling in the background* In all seriousness, this is so true. I have an artist character in a story I’m working on who is (coincidentally) the main antagonist. However, they’re not actually super bad/evil (they’re actually quite nice in some cases), but they’re just kinda messed up in the head lol.